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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Neutron The New Behringer Semi-Modular Synthesizer
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Author Neutron The New Behringer Semi-Modular Synthesizer
Man-In-A-Suitcase
No VCS, 101, 2600 clones etc, but a new Semi-Modular Synthesizer.

Discuss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaxG5g266A
Ambientdreaming
Sounds good to me!
chvad
it does sound nice. very cool!
chvad
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?
slicetwo
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?


It's giving me a semi! badumCHI!
chvad
Thank you ladies and gentlemen! Make sure to tip your waiters waitresses and bartenders!
Man-In-A-Suitcase
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?

yes it's semi, it has a 7x8 jack patch matrix on the end of the module (but it's not seen in the video)

but there is a photo of it (during assembley phase)

chvad
nice!!!
GovernorSilver
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?

yes it's semi, it has a 7x8 jack patch matrix on the end of the module (but it's not seen in the video)

but there is a photo of it (during assembley phase)



I remember that photo! Somebody here was 100% convinced it was for their MS-20 clone. lol

Neutron makes a lot more sense.
racooniac
so behringer is not a joke anymore?

since i know this brand their producs could be ignored easily because yeah ... but lately i am not so sure about that anymore, what do you think?

the same seems to go for their fx-boxes since they've bought tc-electronic .... so do i have to check their products out now all of a sudden? ;o)
mamsk
racooniac wrote:
so behringer is not a joke anymore?

since i know this brand their producs could be ignored easily because yeah ... but lately i am not so sure about that anymore, what do you think?

the same seems to go for their fx-boxes since they've bought tc-electronic .... so do i have to check their products out now all of a sudden? ;o)


i can't praise the deepmind 12 enough at the price point you can pick it up for. almost inexcusable not to have one haha
BTS
GovernorSilver wrote:
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?

yes it's semi, it has a 7x8 jack patch matrix on the end of the module (but it's not seen in the video)

but there is a photo of it (during assembley phase)



I remember that photo! Somebody here was 100% convinced it was for their MS-20 clone. lol

Neutron makes a lot more sense.


That was me. d'oh!

Like I said before, it was the patch points that deceived me.

Still, if the suspected price point holds (supposedly $250-$300), it'll be an impressive synth for the price.

I'm just hoping for some more info.
Jason Brock
Nice. On-board delay seems to be analog BBD (CoolAudio V3205 chips). Also, I see two Attenuator pots - very nice to have those included on a semi-modular with patch points.
lisa
300$? Must be more, surely?
starthief
If it really falls into the $300 range, it's far more interesting to me than the Model D...
Bob Borries


This is a mock-up of the front panel taken from the teaser video. Will there be programmable presets?
lisa
Bob Borries wrote:
Will there be programmable presets?

In a semi-modular synth? Unlikely, right?
cwhiley
Uh, $300. Ok I'll try one just for shits and giggles. If it sucks I'll hang it on the wall.
poladark
Only one LFO :(
High Wolf
Finally, someone realize some of us want sine waves, and on both VCO's.
t-bone
o hell yea!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWwI2sa4PU4[/video]
budinis


little correction thumbs up
t-bone
Thanks ^
Chopper
The original 3340 don't have sinewaves as waveform, do they?
Anyway, individual vcos out on the patchbay with sine waves, nice fm possibilities, methink...
A small semi modular with bbd delay and those tonal possibilities for cheap, could be from Behringer or LIDL, i am all over it already anyway....
chvad
semi modular with a slew.... loving it. this thing sounds sweet.
starthief
NICE. Really curious about price now!

To be picky, I could wish for two things: CV over delay time, and individual shape outs (or at least a square) for at least one of the VCOs.

But it still seems like a winner overall.
mick
Uli wrote on GS:
Quote:
The VCO's are indeed the legendary 3340's but amended with new circuitry; however the filter is a complete new design.

We call it the Moffatt filter, named after our design engineer Keith Moffatt from our Manchester Innovation center.
Keith is a very talented and passionate guy who has been experimenting for years with new synth and in particular filter designs. His Moffatt filter is his baby and a great contribution to the many innovative features you will find in the Neutron.

In the upcoming videos we will share with you the story behind the Neutron and especially the wonderful people behind this instrument. We have also invited some great artists to share their sounds and music with you.

I guess you can tell that we're having a lot of fun:-)

Uli



Very exciting times!
psykon




It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
dubonaire
The world's most hideous synth.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.

being discussed in the world's most nauseating forum.
Muzone
Let's face it, nothing made by the "Evil B" will get by without the usual snide comments from the forum peacocks.

I've never bought a synth on its looks, guess some folk are a bit more superficial.......
tarmoog
3u Rackmountable?
SteeVtheRipper
I actually really like the look of it. It’s quite striking. Reminds me of old Soviet propaganda artwork. I dig it. This (or something like this) is something I could put money behind. Something of their own design, not something someone else designed.

I’m excited to see more!
AW198
Looked amazing until I saw it. Definitely interested from the features and price, but it'll also be the first time I look into custom panels...
dopefiend
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


Hahahaha!!! Have to agree 100%.
dopefiend
......but looks notwithstanding, the features are damn enticing. Problem for me are mainly all the oblique black lines criss crossing the patch jack panel. They do something to my eyes that makes it hard to focus.
Notron fn
I guess with the 3340 Oscs they won't have to worry about the calibration process they have to go through with the model d.
Notron fn
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


It does make me appreciate my ms-20m a little more.
lisa
I'm guessing about $499. That would make it competitive. Anything below would make it a steal, imo.
numan7
Guinness ftw! can't wait to see one of these with a grayscale panel!

woah otherwise, WOW -- nice patch-bay!!!


cheers
starthief
starthief wrote:
To be picky, I could wish for two things: CV over delay time, and individual shape outs (or at least a square) for at least one of the VCOs.


I missed the "delay rate" input, so nevermind. I'm fully behind this thing if the price is around the range I expect.

dopefiend wrote:
Problem for me are mainly all the oblique black lines criss crossing the patch jack panel. They do something to my eyes that makes it hard to focus.


I think it's also actually blurry in the shot lol

I kind of like the looks, and kind of don't... but I don't like my own looks either, so I'll deal with it cool
dubonaire
Muzone wrote:
Let's face it, nothing made by the "Evil B" will get by without the usual snide comments from the forum peacocks.

I've never bought a synth on its looks, guess some folk are a bit more superficial.......


I hope you are not referring to my post, but it seems you are.

Firstly, saying a synth looks hideous is not snide, it's a straight out criticism of its aesthetics. Get your insults right. And aesthetics are somewhat important to me,I don't like to surround myself with things I think are ugly. Call that superficial if you like.

And secondly, there is no need to make personal attacks because I have an opinion on the synth's appearance. I don't hold any particularly strong view on Behringer one way or the other.
Richjk7
Wonder if they will make cheap euro cases as well.
numan7
hmmm..... i wonder how the two 'moffat' vcf outputs (vcf1, vcf2) work... maybe 1 is dedicated low-pass out and 2 is panel-selected mmf... hmm.... ?


cheers
Howie_Doodat
I love the spacing of everything. very ergonomic. I'm sick of all the compact shit.
Funky40
haha, i like the Look ! hihi at least the colour. yeah, not so much the lines.


this thing will pair absolutely well with Elektrons new DTo, and together to a DT, you can bet.


the first one, of ALL those analogue Toysynths ( and also bigger ones) which has my real attention.
needs to be a steal though that i would (and could) jump
Chopper
starthief wrote:
NICE. Really curious about price now!

To be picky, I could wish for two things: CV over delay time, and individual shape outs (or at least a square) for at least one of the VCOs.

But it still seems like a winner overall.


There seem to be a "delay rate" in....
dubonaire
Funky40 wrote:
haha, i like the Look ! hihi at least the colour. yeah, not so much the lines.


this thing will pair absolutely well with Elektrons new DTo, and together to a DT, you can bet.


the first one, of ALL those analogue Toysynths ( and also bigger ones) which has my real attention.
needs to be a steal though that i would (and could) jump


I think the Radikal Technologies synth is pretty cool.

I get some people would like the colour and it would have good stage presence. But yeah with the lines for me it’s too much.
anselmi
dopefiend wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


Hahahaha!!! Have to agree 100%.


another vote for this...

SteeVtheRipper wrote:
Reminds me of old Soviet propaganda artwork


what? no! Dead Banana
this is more like a cheap 90s trance look than soviet constructivism!


Quote:
I could put money behind. Something of their own design, not something someone else designed.


well, not 100% true...you know the issue with Curtis, right?


lisa wrote:
I'm guessing about $499. That would make it competitive. Anything below would make it a steal, imo.



I bet it´s below it...behringer is trying to hard hitting the market...I guess $399
cwhiley
Y'all think it's more expensive than the Model D? Why would it be? There's not much more to it....they look close to me in terms of materials...aside from the fact that this has all that patch i/o. I vote $299.
anselmi
cwhiley wrote:
Y'all think it's more expensive than the Model D? Why would it be? There's not much more to it....they look close to me in terms of materials...aside from the fact that this has all that patch i/o. I vote $299.


good point

anyway, I think that materials and manufacturing isn´t so decisive in behringer´s final prices than marketing strategies...they lower the price of the model D in about $100 from the initial announcement...what small company can do this move? they´re thinking in a much bigger business model than just the component count...I think they can do all this without earning a penny, or even losing money, just to position themselves in the market and sweep part of the competition. In the medium and long term surely end up winning much more in that way.
D_Bowman
I'm red-green colorblind and even I can tell that this thing is red, so it must be pretty red. But looks good to me in whatever version it is I'm seeing it.
slam
Looks like a winner to me. I can’t wait to get my hands on one.
electricanada
I saw somewhere that the price would be $250-300. Given that it's competing with the Mother 32 and the O-Coast, I can't see paying more than that myself, but I would certainly pull the trigger at that price. Hoping it will be easily mountable in a Eurorack case, like the Mother.

Agree that it appears to have been kidnapped, thrown into a van, taken to a dark dank basement, and expertly beaten by secret policemen wielding an ugly baton turned up to 11.
calaveras
dissapointed in the lack of 2nd LFO, or noise/random on the LFO.
Also not digging the 90's rave-o-techno color scheme.
Maybe there will be a Sweetwater monochrome white edition?
anselmi
calaveras wrote:
Also not digging the 90's rave-o-techno color scheme.
Maybe there will be a Sweetwater monochrome white edition?


or styleflip
chvad
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.
dadRabbit
chvad wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.


Mopho is pretty bad too imo
DSC
Yep, I will be getting one of these and immediately I will be changing out the red panel with a matte black powdercoated aluminum panel!
chvad
dadRabbit wrote:
chvad wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.


Mopho is pretty bad too imo


oof . yeah totally. forgot about da' mopho.
anselmi
chvad wrote:
dadRabbit wrote:
chvad wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.


Mopho is pretty bad too imo


oof . yeah totally. forgot about da' mopho.


early DSI stuff are ugly as hell...I think the Tempest was their first product with decent aesthetics
Hi5
calaveras wrote:
dissapointed in the lack of 2nd LFO, or noise/random on the LFO.
Also not digging the 90's rave-o-techno color scheme.
Maybe there will be a Sweetwater monochrome white edition?


Hear you on the 2nd lfo but there is a sample/hold and a noise source so both are patchable to your hearts delight.

Assuming the price is right this is going to be a hard one to pass by.
slicetwo
This with my 0Coast and A4 would be a great combo. I'm sold.
Gyroscope
Sounds great!
Chopper
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


Bob Borries
poladark wrote:
Only one LFO :(


Is 10 more LFO's good enough for you?

Funky40
is it eurorack rails mountable ?
has that been stated somewhere ?



and stopp bashing here red, please hihi
wink
GovernorSilver
To each his/her/their own. I was tempted to buy one just because of a particular button:



Oooh, baby, baby
Baby, baby
Oooh, baby, baby
Ba-baby, baby

Push it good
Push it real good
Ah, push it
Ah, push it
bwhittington
Bob Borries wrote:
poladark wrote:
Only one LFO :(


Is 10 more LFO's good enough for you?



Thank you. lol
starthief
I saw someone added this to ModularGrid as a Euro module and claimed it was 90HP.

Anyone have a source for that, or was it based on estimating proportions from the video? Is it perhaps 19" rack mountable? hmmm.....
Lauflicht
Excellent move by Behringer, thanks for the patch points! I will start to take Behringer serious. But I'm sorry to say that the front panel is hideous and needs a redesign. Well, maybe that's a matter of taste?
Howie_Doodat
there's no way their foray into analog synths is in anyway directly related to behringer the budget pro(lol)audio company that manufactures barely reliable digital trash, right? Like, most likely the owner simply funded a division of engineers and developers, as a cash grab undercutting the competition in the wake of the analog synth and module explosion. I'm torn between whether or not they should have kept the namesake for this radical departure, or created a subsidiary branding. I guess no matter what, when you hear the B word, you are going to expect low prices, so they have that going, but for some, its a scarlet letter and instant avoid, but hey, if it sounds good, it sounds good!
Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.
starthief
Howie_Doodat wrote:
Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.


Speak for yourself, Moneybags hihi

If I had a Behringer D and someone offered me a straight trade for a Minimoog Model D, I'd take it, sell the Moog, and maybe buy another Behringer D and enjoy the money hihi Or more likely, buy the Neutron because it frankly looks like a lot more fun.

My favorite non-modular synth is a Microbrute I paid $250 for. It is, to me, THE REAL SHIT. The Neutron also, from the little we've seen so far, seems like it is THE REAL SHIT.
esko997
I just got the Behringer Deepmind 12, and I'm really impressed with it; looking forward to their new offerings.

I agree with Starthief, I feel like lots of gear that is coveted today was the budget stuff that working musicians could get a hold of back when it was released. Excited to see what people do with all this stuff and if the Behringer stuff holds up well over time.

Definitely remaining optimistic regarding the Neutron!
Howie_Doodat
Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad there's such a vast selection of budget-minded electronic music making gear out with no end in sight.
Also, I am a broke boi, and think the Neutron looks and sounds rad and I will most likely be buying one ahead of the mother 32, the the 0 Coast and the Phenol, all of which i've been debating on buying one of, for awhile now.
cwhiley
Howie_Doodat wrote:

Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.


Oh boy.

I just hang out in "General Gear" because I can't afford the REAL SHIT that all the badass modular guys rock. One day I'll grow up and be a real boy with real money and I'll be as cool as all those guys in the other subforum. Hey, a little poor boy can dream right?

In all fairness Howie_Doodat, I just read your reply, so I guess you're just a regular guy like the rest of us.

I despise elitism.
Notron fn
The real question is whether or not you can successfully rock a pony tail.
Koekepan
https://files.catbox.moe/5pfwuf.mp4

All gear under $1000, and most of it well under $500 (including the laptop used to save the video).

Volcas and Waldorf Blofeld feature heavily.

I'm always interested when Behringer come out with something I might be able to scare up with a bit of tax return or saved pocket money.
cwhiley
Notron fn wrote:
The real question is whether or not you can successfully rock a pony tail.


I can although I need to go a little longer in order to prevent escapees. LOL


dubonaire
Serial-killer selfies aside, even though I can afford the REAL SHIT (also known as the true aquatic centipede black meat), I hang out here because it's where the people who actually make music hang out and it's way more friendly than anywhere else. Here I feel like you talk to people who actually use the synths rather than a bunch of people who pretend to use them.
Howie_Doodat
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.
WaveRider
well said
clipper
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone
a100user
Howie_Doodat wrote:
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


A point of view I have come to realise due to too much kit and zero output.
sutekina bipu-on
a100user wrote:
Howie_Doodat wrote:
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


A point of view I have come to realise due to too much kit and zero output.


Which is why i have been down sizing massively, But enough about that, if I don't get an estimated release date from Behringer soon on this thing I might have a heart attack from anticipation before it hits the market.
Notron fn
But when is behringer going to make a hardware sequencer to go with this?
mamsk
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs
Funky40
Howie_Doodat wrote:
Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.

*your entire post* was full of bullshit. Up under the roof.
please learn to look at things in a more differentiated way.
or hold please back with such posts, Thanks
clipper
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs

well, if Korg and Arturia can sell the Monologue / Microbrute for $300, Behringer can do it too razz
mamsk
clipper wrote:
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs

well, if Korg and Arturia can sell the Monologue / Microbrute for $300, Behringer can do it too razz


i agree they're gonna keep the price down, but i'd think $299 or $349 when it hits. if it really comes in below the model D then i'll get two haha. either way i hope they hurry up.
clipper
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs

well, if Korg and Arturia can sell the Monologue / Microbrute for $300, Behringer can do it too razz


i agree they're gonna keep the price down, but i'd think $299 or $349 when it hits. if it really comes in below the model D then i'll get two haha. either way i hope they hurry up.


yes, thinking a little bit more, between $299 - $349 would be the best bet hihi
they're gonna say the synth has new technology, it's not a clone and so on..
lisa
Howie_Doodat wrote:

Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.

Haha, what? How isn't a synth with 50+ patch points the real shit? lol
cwhiley
Maybe I am a serial killer. screaming goo yo A serial killer who can't afford THE REAL SHIT. meh I can eat people though. zombie twisted
electricanada
Howie_Doodat wrote:
I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


Not a thing wrong with doing it that way, though.
Howie_Doodat
there is nothing wrong with it at all and i dont mean to offend anyone here.
except behringer. your SHIT ISNT REAL!
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Howie_Doodat wrote:
there is nothing wrong with it at all and i dont mean to offend anyone here.
except behringer. your SHIT ISNT REAL!


All eurorack synths are Behringer, because they own the company that makes many of the chips used in eurorack modules, including my beloved 2164. All hail Behringer!
Hi5
Always glad we got some Realness Police out here.
calaveras
I did some real shit last weekend.
I got trapped in multiverse roulette. I kept coming back in the wrong reality. Like a demented episode of Rick and Morty where everything is normal but all the people are Kronenbergs. Or All the people are normal but Chairs talk and TV's are sentient.

So yeah, don't take DMT without a trip chaperone. It's the real shit.
cwhiley
Mimosa hostilis!
Howie_Doodat
$299 is the price point im hearing. insane if so, but that's what I would expect. maybe $349 at most. the main vco and filter using the CEM3340 chip is cool and all but it's a cheap and easy circuit and the overall design isn't exactly anything new. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.
calaveras
dont you mean later Oberheim?
Early Oberheim was discrete. Later Obie was chip.
kindredlost
Howie_Doodat wrote:
.. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.


Or PAIA Proteus. hihi
electricanada
Wait, how do we know what the chip is? Or is this the DMT talking again?
starthief
electricanada wrote:
Wait, how do we know what the chip is? Or is this the DMT talking again?


The front panel kind of obnoxiously says "3340 VCO" on both VCOs hihi And Uli Behringer said they are "the legendary 3340's but amended with new circuitry."

Also they showed a photo of the board. There are a pair of CoolAudio V3205SDs (4096-stage BBDs).
electricanada
starthief wrote:
electricanada wrote:
Wait, how do we know what the chip is? Or is this the DMT talking again?


The front panel kind of obnoxiously says "3340 VCO" on both VCOs hihi And Uli Behringer said they are "the legendary 3340's but amended with new circuitry."

Also they showed a photo of the board. There are a pair of CoolAudio V3205SDs (4096-stage BBDs).


Ah thanks. I must have been too busy huffing gasoline to notice.
calaveras
cwhiley wrote:
Mimosa hostilis!

Someone has been watching Hamiltons Pharmacopia.
dubonaire
calaveras wrote:
I got trapped in multiverse roulette.


Highly quotable and very entertaining. Alien
sci700
kindredlost wrote:
Howie_Doodat wrote:
.. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.


Or PAIA Proteus. hihi


Now we're talking!
clipper
gonna be cheap

electricanada
clipper wrote:
gonna be cheap



That was relentlessly non-informative.
dubonaire
electricanada wrote:
That was relentlessly non-informative.


Matching spec frames though.
nomadjames
Both those videos have been non-informative. It's an art form.
cwhiley
I'm still very interested. This will give me a way to experiment with patching between my MB and another piece of gear w/o regretting any real expenditure.
mg05
Howie_Doodat wrote:
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


Whether true or not, even if, why are you judging about about people making their own music the way they want to or judging instruments? Why do you care?
Even avantgarde musicians / studio work horses / super synthesizers must respect other music(ians) and instruments.
Why declaring it as a 'trippin toy jam' instrument?
What has g'd to do with it?
And why should be any kind of music forbidden whether in a cheap or luxury-want-to-be-pro studio setup?
Bad vibrations or what?
a100user
cwhiley wrote:
I'm still very interested. This will give me a way to experiment with patching between my MB and another piece of gear w/o regretting any real expenditure.


For the price of a a half decent VCO it's a lot to play with.
Funky40
just stumbled over the Model D two days ago.
i´m quite impressed from the demos.
i wonder how much sense it would make to get both ? hmmm.....
short on money for both me thinks..........but: i could ditch some other wtb.
your thoughts, model D vs. red monsta ?
cwhiley
Do you want Moog sound or random other sound? Not much is known about what kind of sound the Neutron creates other than the only demo that actually makes sound...Other than that it's a crap shoot at this point.
dubnspace
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail
ignatius
psykon wrote:



am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.
dubonaire
ignatius wrote:

am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.


No you're not. You should read back through this thread.
cwhiley
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail


I called it. Said before I figured it would be exactly the same price as the D.

Too bad I have spent ALL the money I am willing to for pretty much the rest of the year. I'm going to start saving for the Waldorf Quantum. If I exhibit some discipline I should have enough to buy one outright by March 2019. Hey, not so bad right?! For now it's time to write music!

Looking forward to seeing what people do with these though. Just think, you could have 6 Neutrons and 6 model D's for $3600. Would be really neat to see if anyone builds a Behringer monster.
ranix
Looks great. Cheap as hell. Way more interesting than the minimoog clone. Unfortunately I do not need it since my existing equipment totally covers all of its functionality
Howie_Doodat
whoa only $300
hmm..i think i'll buy a nice new pair of shoes instead.
revtor
ignatius wrote:
psykon wrote:



am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.



Why they would put a red synth on an orange table..? I have no idea. Ugly!? For $300 you just take what they’re squeezing out of those Chinese kids hands.
mick
ignatius wrote:
am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.
In this pic it looks totally different though:



Here it looks really good nanners
dplduffy
Wow that pic does look totally different. Didn't realize these were already rolling off the assembly line. Maybe they will actually hit their April target, however I'm skeptical after the D delays...
ugokcen
I was not tempted by the Deepmind or the D, though I have to say at this price this thing will be hard to resist. That patch panel makes it pretty much an extension of a Eurorack system. Those Midas guys clearly know what they are doing.

I was saving up for the new Rubicon, but now I'm not so sure... But wait, the Neutron doesn't do thru-zero fm hihi
electricanada
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail


MF seems to have taken that page down. I find no inkling of the Neutron on their site.
dubnspace
electricanada wrote:
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail


MF seems to have taken that page down. I find no inkling of the Neutron on their site.


Yep, both MF and Guitar Center took the listing down. I did preorder with a coupon when it was active and they have not cancelled my order. Uli B. confirmed the 299 price and would be shipping late April/May.
evilspock
Wow. With a 15% off coupon you're looking at getting one of these for $255 shipped. That's a no-brainer even if you think the sound of the thing sucks and you just end up using it as a bank of utility modules for your Eurorack.
dubnspace
evilspock wrote:
Wow. With a 15% off coupon you're looking at getting one of these for $255 shipped. That's a no-brainer even if you think the sound of the thing sucks and you just end up using it as a bank of utility modules for your Eurorack.

yep. but behringer haters will hate..
Howie_Doodat
It looks the same in that factory photo, i don't know what you guys are seeing different. it looks less orange, that's about it. Someone's gonna make a lot of money selling a refacing kit for that thing. hah
radiokoala
booty wiggler RED IS THE NEW RED!booty wigglerbooty wigglerbooty wiggler


Bananallama!
listentoaheartbeat
It's cheap, so it has to look like shit – or what is the logic here?
Dave Mech
Probably should've gone with a black panel. Maybe someone will do a greyscale panel for this thing?

Either way, this is going into my modular that I recently started for sure, until I fill it up with more specific modules, this thing has a lot of utility for such a small price smile. If someone creates a black or grey panel for this, I'll buy that too razz
grillo
I've seen this on modulargrid as well, will it be euro rackable like the mother 32 or nah? It looks slightly taller to me than euro but I don't know.

Still, I think this is a lot of synth for the money, but like the beri model D I really wish they offered a keyboard version. This is my hottest take but I really don't find the whole 'tabletop full of little units' a cool or inspiring setup at all.
sutekina bipu-on
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
It's cheap, so it has to look like shit – or what is the logic here?


Howie_Doodat
Cheap stuff = cheap materials inside and out, not to mention budgeting time and money on research and development. Look at the Model D. Can't get it out there as promised yet because, yeah you can build a mini clone, people have done it for years, but can you source reliable and stable electronic parts and material for a solid chasis with a weighty and quality tactile interface?
anselmi
idm wrote:
Probably should've gone with a black panel. Maybe someone will do a greyscale panel for this thing?


+1 for greyscale panel needed...this thing is hideous
mckenic
I cant believe how much I dig the white panel posted on the 1st page of this thread - if that were available I'd snap this up in an instant just to look at it hihi
Muzone
.....already having a Meeblip, Micromod & a red Microbrute I'm looking forward to another red monster for the collection smile

Bah humbug to the monochrome dullsters :p
dubnspace
Howie_Doodat wrote:
Cheap stuff = cheap materials inside and out, not to mention budgeting time and money on research and development. Look at the Model D. Can't get it out there as promised yet because, yeah you can build a mini clone, people have done it for years, but can you source reliable and stable electronic parts and material for a solid chasis with a weighty and quality tactile interface?

Err, the Model D is out and in the hands of many (mine shipped Tuesday)., as well as in stock at Guitar Center and Musicians friend.. Also read the thread over on GS, I don't think a single person has complained about the build quality, most saying how impressed they are with the quality...
suboptimal
Show me one person who buys a new piece of gear and complains about the build quality after 30 seconds of unwrapping it and I'll show you 5000 who rave about how great it is. In the old days when Harmony Central reviews were a thing it was a matter of course that every review included the "built like a TANK!1!" cliche, usually preceded by "I just got this 5 minutes ago and WOW!"

We'll see how well these hold up over time. They have to be using the cheapest possible jacks and pots. Maybe they'll be easy to service (and mod). At this price it's going to have plenty of buyers.
Funky40
suboptimal wrote:
....... They have to be using the cheapest possible jacks and pots. ......


But you are aware that we get to buy 400$+ modules in euro which also use the cheapest possible jacks ?*

can´t judge on the pots......and do not judge pots based on how much they wobble wink
but i know the jacks,......well, original they would be called "sockets" not ? ( vs. jacks)


* not saying they used those sockets just to save money.
I guess they used those because this and that guy used them too.
...refering to those sockets which appeared the fisrt time in euroland when earthenvar had his debut, by doing a "Group-buy".
i was part of it, i know these sockets and i know the prices back then........




pointless points in my opinion.
Your points can have value if you go much more specific into details.
.....and if we would judge with the same measure in the euro forum,
it would be a place full of rants. over and over..........but nobody does
starthief
Failures in my experience:

Jacks: Korg, Radio Shack hihi
Pots: Teenage Engineering
Keys: Moog, Korg
Joysticks: Korg
Ribbon: Moog
Battery soldered to circuit board: Korg
Random crashes & weirdness: Groovesizer, Keith McMillen, Twisted-Electrons
Encoders: none
Displays: none

I'm not particularly worried about the Neutron suddenly failing because it costs less than Internet People think it should. seriously, i just don't get it
Panason
but but an analogue synth costing so little is not cool. Soon, Everybody and their dog is gonna have one and it will be even less cool. Then you'd get someone rocking some boutique modular with a hip name sniggering at you. w00t

BTW those photos have over-saturated colours. It isn't going to be that bright red.
catchpenny
Think it'll pair quite nicely with my nord micro
Panason
dubonaire wrote:


I think the Radikal Technologies synth is pretty cool.


Hell yes! However, just the oscillator part of that synth costs €600 as a module...
electricanada
You can hear the Neutron in action here:

https://soundcloud.com/jd73/new-behringer-neutron-jam

I'd like to hear more modular weirdness and complex evolving drones--if it's possible with this box--but this is a start.
GovernorSilver
catchpenny wrote:
Think it'll pair quite nicely with my nord micro


Was thinking of my bud's Nord Micromodular because of this thread. He painted it like one of Eddie Van Halen's guitars for a "Dork vs. Dweeb" synth dueling concert and left it like that afterwards. Don't have a pic of it, but the paint job was like this guitar's:

nomadjames
I really don't think the red is that bad.
unclebastard
electricanada wrote:
You can hear the Neutron in action here:

https://soundcloud.com/jd73/new-behringer-neutron-jam

I'd like to hear more modular weirdness and complex evolving drones--if it's possible with this box--but this is a start.

Should be, it's got enough patch points, there's plenty to play with, either self-patched or mangled by Euro modules.
alex5556
this beast is a real game-changer. I'm going to sell my mother 32 and grab this one, although I love m32. but it's literally two times cheaper, considering its possibilities. hope it'll well-made and durable.
clipper
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail

I called it too It's peanut butter jelly time!
now we need some proper demos & a release date hmmm.....
Nutritional Zero
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.

Personally I've always wanted to build a secondary rig out of lower-cost options that I can travel with, bang around a bit, and allow other people to play (including friends who like to set pint glasses next to synths). But that said, Volcas are simply too dinky for me to get much use out of. This'll do fine.
electricanada
Will this fit in a euro case? Anyone know?
Chopper
Nutritional Zero wrote:
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.

Personally I've always wanted to build a secondary rig out of lower-cost options that I can travel with, bang around a bit, and allow other people to play (including friends who like to set pint glasses next to synths). But that said, Volcas are simply too dinky for me to get much use out of. This'll do fine.


I agree with many of those points.
I believe they've been busy investigating the eurorack "scene" as well as trying to make a product that will atract beginners in the sense that there is an all-in-one aspect to it that a few of us are after for the reasons you mentioned.
anselmi
Nutritional Zero wrote:
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.


could be like you said but I don't like it because of the RED, I don't like it because of what they do with the RED...

in this very thread there is a pic of a red boomstar 700 that is gorgeous! also I love the look of nord synths (mainly leads) and I own myself a red 101...even the red boutique 01a is really nice...

but this thing is still ugly

I hope the greyscale guy is reading this and making a cool replacement panel
plogbidman
Yes alex5556, this Neutron is a real game-changer. thumbs up
I love my two Phenol Kilpatrick. But i will buy as soon as possible two Neutron too, no problem about that. hihi
Each and every "module" of the Neutron has its ins and its outs. That makes of it in my opinion not only a very good semi-modular but a real small and cleverly designed full modular. For 300$ !!!
That's why it's a game-changer. nanners
dubonaire
anselmi wrote:
Nutritional Zero wrote:
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.


could be like you said but I don't like it because of the RED, I don't like it because of what they do with the RED...

in this very thread there is a pic of a red boomstar 700 that is gorgeous! also I love the look of nord synths (mainly leads) and I own myself a red 101...even the red boutique 01a is really nice...

but this thing is still ugly


My thoughts too. I love my red Nord.
lisa
I stand corrected. I expected it to be $499, well below the Arturia equivalent but well more than the Model B. At $299 it is insane value. Sure to make loads of people really snippy about other companies princing. MY ASS IS BLEEDING

In Europe the pricing seems to hover around 350 euros including sales tax. That is proportionate to about $430. Still really cheap but not as devastatingly mind-blowing.
clipper
the videos are coming: Guinness ftw!

Panason
OK, so Behringer is a German company . Why is it cheaper in the US??
Quote:

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market.


Yeah, that's crude lowest-common-denominator marketing psychology.
Noisefan
Thanks clipper and DivKid for the video. I'm quite excited for this original semi-modular while the Moog clone left me feeling a bit uneasy.

I know it won't be out until the end of April or later but I'm already planning how it will sit next to my other gear. I don't really understand the urge to take up a gigantic amount of precious space inside a eurorack case when it will easily sit next to or on top of the case?
plogbidman
I will buy directly two Neutrons. One will go instantly into my eurorack modular. The other one will go on my knees, like an analog red cat, hahaha ! hihi
Funky40
Noisefan wrote:
I don't really understand the urge to take up a gigantic amount of precious space inside a eurorack case when it will easily sit next to or on top of the case?

assoon one is building his own (simple) euroracks,
hasn´t it to be a precious space.
it can even turn into the contrary as one can build up the walls with euro wink
starthief
Noisefan wrote:
I don't really understand the urge to take up a gigantic amount of precious space inside a eurorack case when it will easily sit next to or on top of the case?


I don't have a lot of desk space that isn't already reserved for other synths and controllers, so "next to" isn't going to work.

One of my cases is a Mantis, so "on top of" isn't going to work there.

The other is a 12U server rack stand with no sides, 9U of Euro in Z-rails, a 1U switch panel and 1U audio interface. "On top of" isn't going to work there, either.

My two cheapest options are replacing the 12U rack with a 15U rack, or get a short rack cabinet to stick under that rack, and racking the Neutron.
percussion boy
mick wrote:
ignatius wrote:
am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.
In this pic it looks totally different though:



Here it looks really good nanners


and maybe even edible... Wild Cherry analog.
Howie_Doodat
whats the over/under on that thing having terrible tuning problems?
numan7
meh where in the heck are you hearing all that from (it hasn't even shipped yet), Howdie-Doodie, (or are you just trying to stir up some fun)?


anyways, i think you might be confusing the behringer neutron with the earlier versions (rev 1 and 2) of the sequential circuits prophet 5 polysynths.

the main differences are:

* neutron is a monosynth (so it's more like the sci pro one). it only needs to stay in tune with itself - though it does sound like some folks will try poly-chaining them via midi as well as modular means.

* neutron uses cem vcos (like prophet 5 rev 3 and pro one) which are more stable than the ssm and discrete vcos used in the earlier prophets (which were more difficult to keep in tune than the later prophet 5 rev 3s).

* neutron has a functionally complete modular patchbay. so while the prophets do feature their modulation matrix that allows vco xmod, pitch envelopes and filter fm - all of that and more can be easily patched on the netutron.

* neutron has a new multi-mode filter design ('moffat') from one of the behringer-midas engineers. afaik, the prophets all used ssm or cem filters.


cheers
sutekina bipu-on
^ Great post. If i totally fall in love with the neutron sound i could see myself buying a couple. More likely I will sample the sounds i like, though.
Panason
Quote:
Cheap stuff = cheap materials inside and out


Not necessarily. It can be cheap because mass manufactured using wage slaves in China.
nomadjames
I thought they only had wage slaves in Japan and the US?
starthief
I sure hope nobody having a go at Behringer for manufacturing in China, or using cheap parts, uses any products from Roland, Yamaha, Apple, Intel, AMD... oh wait hmmm.....

There are very few manufacturers that don't try to minimize their expenses either by using the cheapest available parts, underpaying their labor, exerting pressure on their suppliers if they're big enough, lobbying for looser regulations (and again doing their best to screw over labor), etc.

Until someone manages to document exactly how Behringer is substantially worse for their workers than everyone else is, and/or exhorts people to also avoid other instrumeent manufacturers for the same reasons, it's just empty trash-talk.
chvad
starthief wrote:
I sure hope nobody having a go at Behringer for manufacturing in China, or using cheap parts, uses any products from Roland, Yamaha, Apple, Intel, AMD... oh wait hmmm.....

There are very few manufacturers that don't try to minimize their expenses either by using the cheapest available parts, underpaying their labor, exerting pressure on their suppliers if they're big enough, lobbying for looser regulations (and again doing their best to screw over labor), etc.

Until someone manages to document exactly how Behringer is substantially worse for their workers than everyone else is, and/or exhorts people to also avoid other instrumeent manufacturers for the same reasons, it's just empty trash-talk.


yup.
nomadjames
Amen!
Panason
I was just saying that the hardware quality doesn't have to be bad to make it cheap. Mass manufacturing in China (with wage slaves) is what makes it cheap.

Moog synths and all that fancy modular stuff would (or could) be cheaper if they were made in China as well.
Muzone
Panason wrote:
...Mass manufacturing in China (with wage slaves) is what makes it cheap.


getting dangerously close to politics here, but I'm not sure you fully understand the concept of a 'wage slave' ?
raised eyebrows
starthief wrote:
I sure hope nobody having a go at Behringer for manufacturing in China, or using cheap parts, uses any products from Roland, Yamaha, Apple, Intel, AMD... oh wait hmmm.....

There are very few manufacturers that don't try to minimize their expenses either by using the cheapest available parts, underpaying their labor, exerting pressure on their suppliers if they're big enough, lobbying for looser regulations (and again doing their best to screw over labor), etc.

Until someone manages to document exactly how Behringer is substantially worse for their workers than everyone else is, and/or exhorts people to also avoid other instrumeent manufacturers for the same reasons, it's just empty trash-talk.


i don't think you need to prove that Behringer is uniquely 'evil' or whatever to laud the labor practices of Moog Music; whether or not Behringer runs their factories to the standards practiced by other large corporations, we certainly DO know that Moog is an employee owned company which surely pays its workers significantly more than Behringer does. It honestly drives me nuts when (esp on the other music forum which shall not be named) people act as if this is a totally unimportant fact when drooling over behringer's prices; I don't judge anyone for using whatever tools they can afford (and I own an ipad etc so i'm certainly complicit), but I do think that supporting a company which treats its workers well is something that I am willing to pay a premium for; I do my best to support worker-owned companies and establishments whenever possible despite the fact that I don't make much money. I don't think everyone needs to do that, but I also think it's silly to handwave away such differences in service of some sort of 'greedy moog is getting RICH off of us poor musicians' narrative (which Uli rather sneakily encouraged with a number of his posts on Gearslutz)(oops i named the other forum).

And for what it's worth: Factory workers in Zhongshan protest dangerous working conditions
Quote:
About 80 percent of the workforce had complained of dizziness, headaches, coughing, weakness and blurred vision since the factory relocated to a new facility in September. They said the production lines were sealed, causing them to directly inhale the fumes, which workers suspected were a lingering residue from the factory renovation... Workers bought their own testing devices and discovered that levels of dangerous chemicals like formaldehyde were three to ten times the recommended safe level. Workers then contacted the local work safety department on 28 November, and after an investigation, the government told the workers on 4 December that their suspicions were correct.

Quote:
Eurotec Electronics is owned by Music Group, one of the world’s largest audio equipment manufacturers, making products for global brands like Behringer and Midas.


VS

Moog Music Gives Employees More Control
Quote:
At the Moog synthesizer factory in Asheville, N.C., on Tuesday, Michael Adams, the company’s owner and chief executive, wanted to share some life-changing news with the entire staff.

“I’ve sold half the company,” he told them.

Anxious silence descended among the tight-knit group, many of whom feel a familial loyalty to the business, which has been likened to Willy Wonka’s factory for electronic musicians.

Then Mr. Adams revealed the buyer.

“I sold it to you,” he said, to a relieved wave of whoops, applause and happy tears, according to employees present.

Siobhan Robinson, a production scheduler who started as an office manager 10 years ago, could only talk through her sniffles and giddy laughs. “This provides for my family; this is all we have,” she said.
raised eyebrows
(BTW that said - I'm not suggesting that no one should buy Behringer gear, just that there are valid reasons for people to have questions about the means by which their prices are made so low, and to determine for themselves whether that matters to them. The Neutron looks interesting, FWIW, and I do applaud Behringer for taking some risks and building a new affordable semi-modular)
nomadjames
Muzone wrote:
Panason wrote:
...Mass manufacturing in China (with wage slaves) is what makes it cheap.


getting dangerously close to politics here, but I'm not sure you fully understand the concept of a 'wage slave' ?



Old school Shadowrun slang?
Koekepan
raised eyebrows wrote:
i don't think you need to prove that Behringer is uniquely 'evil' or whatever to laud the labor practices of Moog Music; whether or not Behringer runs their factories to the standards practiced by other large corporations, we certainly DO know that Moog is an employee owned company which surely pays its workers significantly more than Behringer does. It honestly drives me nuts when (esp on the other music forum which shall not be named) people act as if this is a totally unimportant fact when drooling over behringer's prices; I don't judge anyone for using whatever tools they can afford (and I own an ipad etc so i'm certainly complicit), but I do think that supporting a company which treats its workers well is something that I am willing to pay a premium for; I do my best to support worker-owned companies and establishments whenever possible despite the fact that I don't make much money. I don't think everyone needs to do that, but I also think it's silly to handwave away such differences in service of some sort of 'greedy moog is getting RICH off of us poor musicians' narrative (which Uli rather sneakily encouraged with a number of his posts on Gearslutz)(oops i named the other forum).


I take a completely different view.

I don't have the option of going to the store and buying a sack full of good feelings and fluffy bunny moments. All the hard-earned cash I can drag along (which is depressingly little) can only be exchanged for synths, sequencers, mixers, cables and so on.

The proof of this is that once I've made the music, mixed it down, put it on a CD (or whatever) and played it for someone else, the only fluffy bunnies involved come from the music. I can't put HapiFeelz(tm) on a CD because I didn't buy any HapiFeelz(tm) in the first place. It's not on the shelf.

The net result is that if I'm paying more money for a device that will give me an adequate sound (by my ear - the only measure that matters) then I'm engaging in an act of charity. Charity that, quite frankly, I can't afford.

Not one synth in my studio cost me as much as a Sub Phatty, and everything over $200 is not only polyphonic, but multitimbral. The suggestion that I should buy a DFAM for the price of a Blofeld is - well, it's otherworldly. I'm not in the business of spending money as a political statement in favour of a particular model of labour. I spend money to build the very best studio, for the very best music that I possibly can make.

Now, does this mean that I encourage exploitation of the weeping proletariat while champagne-swilling capitalist cannibals laugh? No. I'm quite happy to have all businesses and industries kept to high standards of conduct - but I'm not the police. I'm not the government. I'm not even on some kind of labour board. I'm the poor schlub who gets to peer at what's on the shelf, and count the money in his fist.

So I vote for good public policy, and I spend for efficiency. On that front, Uli can run a clean factory or pay fines and penalties. And I'll buy smart.

If I want something semi-modular, and there isn't a Volca semi-modular, this Neutron might be a good buy.
nomadjames
https://youtu.be/8KsmPo9HW7k

I want this thing so bad.
deb76
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8otT2YQsGCY
I like this it. The work on the envelope reminds me of my old EMS Synthi AKS. I ordered the Model D Behringer and I will order the Neutron. It is a set 700 euros TTC with multiple possibilities ...
MindMachine
kindredlost wrote:
Howie_Doodat wrote:
.. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.


Or PAIA Proteus. hihi


9V battery not included! Mr. Green

Man you brought back some memories. I used to save every new catalog. Remember their blue Drum voice module? Man it looked sick. I'm sure it sounded like crap (former Phlanger, Gnome, Oz owner).

Glad to see more normalled synths in production, but seems odd for Behringer. Maybe this will turn the music world more modular. Amen.
Rex Coil 7
numan7 wrote:
.... * neutron is a monosynth (so it's more like the sci pro one). it only needs to stay in tune with itself -
This notion is simply factually incorrect.

It would only need to "stay in tune with itself" if it is the sole instrument in a given song or performance.

In a band setting it also must stay in tune with guitars, basses, other synths, organs (such as a vintage Hammond which has no ability to be tuned ... meaning all of the instruments in the band must be able to tune to the Hammond), computers (VSTs), the song as a whole, the singer, as well as the drums ... Yes, good drummers actually know how to tune their drums and frequently do.

So you're going to have to rethink that statement.
MindMachine
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
numan7 wrote:
.... * neutron is a monosynth (so it's more like the sci pro one). it only needs to stay in tune with itself -
This notion is simply factually incorrect.

It would only need to "stay in tune with itself" if it is the sole instrument in a given song or performance.

In a band setting it also must stay in tune with guitars, basses, other synths, organs (such as a vintage Hammond which has no ability to be tuned ... meaning all of the instruments in the band must be able to tune to the Hammond), computers (VSTs), the song as a whole, the singer, as well as the drums ... Yes, good drummers actually know how to tune their drums and frequently do.

So you're going to have to rethink that statement.


Like when I played trombone in a section and the concert director said I was out of tune. I made them tune to me. hihi
gentle_attack
raised eyebrows wrote:
Moog Music Gives Employees More Control
Quote:
At the Moog synthesizer factory in Asheville, N.C., on Tuesday, Michael Adams, the company’s owner and chief executive, wanted to share some life-changing news with the entire staff.

“I’ve sold half the company,” he told them.

Anxious silence descended among the tight-knit group, many of whom feel a familial loyalty to the business, which has been likened to Willy Wonka’s factory for electronic musicians.

Then Mr. Adams revealed the buyer.

“I sold it to you,” he said, to a relieved wave of whoops, applause and happy tears, according to employees present.

Siobhan Robinson, a production scheduler who started as an office manager 10 years ago, could only talk through her sniffles and giddy laughs. “This provides for my family; this is all we have,” she said.


It's pretty cool when owners decide they've made enough and want out, and want the family they created to not only keep their jobs, but continue the company as they see fit...

buuuuut
(1) don't act like this is the norm
(2) even at Moog there were an infinite amount of time over the life of the company before that moment where they DIDN'T do that, and one guy owned it and was calling the shots.
(3) If I spent my money and effort on a company I would say it was absurd to suggest I "owe it" to my company to treat them a certain way (so long as what I did was legal) much less give them part of the company. If you don't like your job, there's infinity jobs out there minus the one you (have/hate) out there.


--end note: I actually do empathize with what you were selling smile and that's why mass produced Chinese shit never or extremely rarely hits cult status, and hand made Moogerfoogers are worth 95% of their MSRP after years in service. It's just unfair to knock kids working 2 jobs who want a Boog D because there's a LE Moog D thats 12x as expensive.
thevegasnerve
Almost all of us have no idea of the culture or working environment of these firms. We are speculating based on a few articles etc.. I think it’s likely Moog provides a better workplace, but it’s all relative. And even fewer have any concept of running a business. What we do know is that Moog makes a very nice product, I love my whole fooger collection and the Mother32s are a joy to play. The foogers will outlast me I suspect. I do think the Neutron is the most interesting of all Behringers products. Their history is spotty but may be improving.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of the bits and pieces of all those cottage industry eurorack modules y'all love so much are made in China. All the hardware is made in China. The PCBs are made in China. All the knobs and panel bits and pieces are made in China (or Taiwan). All of the electronic components are made in China (except some of the ICs, which are made in Malaysia or the Philippines). (OK, the panels are typically made in Ohio.)

Unless you live off the grid in a treehouse in the forest, I would bet that 90% of everything you own is made, partially or wholly, in China. So why get all self-righteous about Behringer? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing demographic on the planet -- it turns out that the average Chinese person wants a bit of affluence, just like the average Westerner -- so why is this bad?
Funky40
gentle_attack wrote:


It's pretty cool when owners decide they've made enough and want out, and want the family they created to not only keep their jobs, but continue the company as they see fit...

ha, this one looks 180° the other way around to me.
honestly, it looks not good. More like: the rich bail out while they can and aslong they can find a stupid one...........
numan7
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
[t would only need to "stay in tune with itself" if it is the sole instrument in a given song or performance.

In a band setting it also must stay in tune with guitars, basses, other synths, organs (such as a vintage Hammond which has no ability to be tuned ... meaning all of the instruments in the band must be able to tune to the Hammond), computers (VSTs), the song as a whole, the singer, as well as the drums ... Yes, good drummers actually know how to tune their drums and frequently do..


when a mono-synth "stays in tune with itself", this means that its pitch is stable over time. and since it is a mono-synth, its midi and frequency cv only control one voice.

(so you don't need to worry about voices going out of tune with respect to master pitch as on a polysynth.)

playing in band settings, or whatever, then is dead simple. just use the pitch controls on the mono-synth to transpose to whatever key the band is playing in.

(so the statement was factually correct. and i don't need to re-think anything.)


cheers
Panason
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:


Unless you live off the grid in a treehouse in the forest, I would bet that 90% of everything you own is made, partially or wholly, in China. So why get all self-righteous about Behringer? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing demographic on the planet -- it turns out that the average Chinese person wants a bit of affluence, just like the average Westerner -- so why is this bad?


Not being self-righteous but here's some food for thought... the info about Chinese manufacturing is later in the video. Behringer are just one of many (peanuts compared to the likes of Samsung and Apple) and we're all implicated... I haven't researched the matter to know if everything there is factually correct so I won't be able to discuss this video.



Anyway... to get back to the topic seriously, i just don't get it is there any info on the MIDI implementation? Are any of the synth's parameters controllable with MIDI CCs?
starthief
Gaz Williams did a livestream with it. He doesn't have the modular mindset and wasn't quite sure about some of the features (like VCA bias) but still, I found this video useful. Good sound quality and a nice clear listen to various parts of the synth in near-isolation.



Pretty great oscillators, and morphing between shapes is a nice touch. Good filter. Much less whiney BBD than on the previous version that DivKid and some others were sent -- I wonder if they slapped a lowpass on it as well as doubling the stages.

I'd been having second thoughts about getting one unless I could try it myself, but I'm back in the yes camp.
dubonaire
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of the bits and pieces of all those cottage industry eurorack modules y'all love so much are made in China. All the hardware is made in China. The PCBs are made in China. All the knobs and panel bits and pieces are made in China (or Taiwan). All of the electronic components are made in China (except some of the ICs, which are made in Malaysia or the Philippines). (OK, the panels are typically made in Ohio.)

Unless you live off the grid in a treehouse in the forest, I would bet that 90% of everything you own is made, partially or wholly, in China. So why get all self-righteous about Behringer? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing demographic on the planet -- it turns out that the average Chinese person wants a bit of affluence, just like the average Westerner -- so why is this bad?


I agree with your general position and it's a point that should be made, but I think it's more complex than that. It's a bit like the one true scotsman fallacy. Many of your choices are comprised so don't make any ethical choices or you are a hypocrite. If we took that approach our morals and ethics would collapse.

As consumers we can influence by making obvious choices. It's obvious not to wear baby fur seal or eat shark fin soup and they are easy choices to make. For some it might be easy to not buy Behringer because there is a lot of information on its manufacturing complexes and they can choose to buy other equipment. Given Behringer's volume, consumer choices may not influence the company's behaviour but talking about it on public forums is healthy.

It turns out the average Chinese person wants fair, safe and healthy working conditions as well. That's part and parcel of most westerners' affluence. And that's why Behringer's workers went on strike late last year. Actually the biggest threat to profiting from cheap Chinese factory labour is the increasing sophistication and expectations of the workers themselves.

From what I've read about Berhinger management culture it's everything you rail against. One of the differences with Behringer, regardless of any ethical issues, is there is a risk it will drive a race to the bottom, a market in which only companies with its economies of scale can survive. I think that happened before in this industry, and it resulted in a largely unremarkable decade or two of mediocre electronic musical instruments.
D Rock
I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Going to be my starting point for modular with a behringer model D. Plan to get a few VCAs and wasp filter to start. Guinness ftw!
lilakmonoke
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".

schippmann right now charges 800 euro for a single filter which of course is excellent but this seems to be a very unhealthy relationship between cost and function. there is nothing wrong with nerds making lot of $$ with gizmos but if behringer gets into it there is at least an alternative. plus the model D is proof that super high quality analog audio COULD be built cheaply and all eurorack addicts are being milked badly.
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".

schippmann right now charges 800 euro for a single filter which of course is excellent but this seems to be a very unhealthy relationship between cost and function. there is nothing wrong with nerds making lot of $$ with gizmos but if behringer gets into it there is at least an alternative. plus the model D is proof that super high quality analog audio COULD be built cheaply and all eurorack addicts are being milked badly.


I don't think you can compare Doepfer to Behringer. Dieter Doepfer still provides the company's tech support.

Schippmann filters were expensive before Schippmann entered eurorack. No one has to buy a Schippmann filter. And there already are cheap alternatives to Schippmann, like Doepfer, as you point out.

Schippmann filters were expensive before Schippmann entered eurorack. No one has to buy a Schippmann filter.

The reason the model D is cheap is because of economies of scale. It doesn't mean small manufacturers can make them that cheaply. It's a bulk retail financial model. Large numbers X small margins, and vertically integrated supply chain (including the voice chips), versus low numbers X larger margins. I'm happy for those small manufacturers to make a profit. I certainly wouldn't work for free.
Panason
lilakmonoke wrote:
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".


I'm inclined to agree. I believe these "boutique" (I can't stand that term) manufacturers are charging a "hip factor" premium.... with (IMO ridiculously pretentious) names like "Ornament & Crime", "Iteritas", "Cocoquantus" etc there is clearly a particular target market for these things and it has to do with a sort of next level analog trendiness. Many people believe that the more money they throw at (relatively) obscure gear the better their music will be.. And so we have people asking things like "how can I make a fat bass sound with my modular" - apparently ignoring the fact that you can make humongously obese bass with a DX7 (sine waves!) that you would never get with analogue systems.
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".


I'm inclined to agree. I believe these "boutique" (I can't stand that term) manufacturers are charging a "hip factor" premium.... with (IMO ridiculously pretentious) names like "Ornament & Crime", "Iteritas", "Cocoquantus" etc there is clearly a particular target market for these things and it has to do with a sort of next level analog trendiness. Many people believe that the more money they throw at (relatively) obscure gear the better their music will be.. And so we have people asking things like "how can I make a fat bass sound with my modular" - apparently ignoring the fact that you can make humongously obese bass with a DX7 (sine waves!) that you would never get with analogue systems.


I like how you name a bunch of digital modules as next level analog trendiness. At least know what you are talking about if you are going to go on a rant. No one is forcing you to buy these modules, why get so upset, or do you just want to you kids get off my lawn ? If so take it to Gearslutz.
lilakmonoke
when i got into modular you could easily build a decent system with 2k with used modules. now that number is at least 2-3x of that? back then makers like FoH or WMD made a point in producing modules that were interesting AND cheap, now everybody seems to be testing how much you can push the price with the next version of the same thing.

i got out of it after i calculated how much money i sunk into the modular and how much i actually got out of it especially compared to my synths. i slapped myself a few times ;-) and that was the end of it. as a fellow wiggler once posted "10k for a thousand dogfart sounds?!"

economy of scale is a myth, everybody who would buy a model D would also buy a cwejman s1 if it was affordable. ulli behringer WANTS to build affordable high quality stuff and so he can while schippmann wants to build the most expensive filter on the planet. its your choice who you want to support, thats true.

im definitely back into modular as soon as behringer comes up with high quality modules under 100$ ... and they will i predict.
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
when i got into modular you could easily build a decent system with 2k with used modules. now that number is at least 2-3x of that? back then makers like FoH or WMD made a point in producing modules that were interesting AND cheap, now everybody seems to be testing how much you can push the price with the next version of the same thing.

i got out of it after i calculated how much money i sunk into the modular and how much i actually got out of it especially compared to my synths. i slapped myself a few times ;-) and that was the end of it. as a fellow wiggler once posted "10k for a thousand dogfart sounds?!"

economy of scale is a myth, everybody who would buy a model D would also buy a cwejman s1 if it was affordable. ulli behringer WANTS to build affordable high quality stuff and so he can while schippmann wants to build the most expensive filter on the planet. its your choice who you want to support, thats true.

im definitely back into modular as soon as behringer comes up with high quality modules under 100$ ... and they will i predict.


Economy of scale is not a myth. That's nonsense.

I don't know what exactly is your point. I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro, just like golfers don't when they buy golf club memberships or skiers don't when they book ski trips. You can buy a usable system for 2k now. You can make music with a DAW and nothing else if you want to save money. That's obviously not the point. I don't know why you ever thought this was a poor man's past time. I never did.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.

so thats exactly why im really excited about behringer being in the mix now.
notmiserlouagain
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.

so thats exactly why im really excited about behringer being in the mix now.


Yes, I can relate to that, sold everything off, now it´s only diy my modules, and that is pure happiness for me, also, I do much better (interesting, surprising, creative) music with a handful of modules than with my late big modular...
/end ot rambling
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.


Well I don't disagree with that. Me, I envy anyone who is able to live in Berlin and make music for a living.
Panason
Panason
dubonaire wrote:

I like how you name a bunch of digital modules as next level analog trendiness. At least know what you are talking about if you are going to go on a rant. No one is forcing you to buy these modules, why get so upset, or do you just want to you kids get off my lawn ? If so take it to Gearslutz.


I don't really care if they're analogue or digital.. they're modules for largely analogue systems.

I think you're confused. Nobody is "ranting" or "so upset". As far as I can see you're not a moderator, so click on that "Ignore" button rather than try to tell me where to post. This is the "General Gear" subforum. Or you can always switch off the computer and go outside if you think someone's opinion on the internet regarding the modular synthesizer market is upsetting.
Muzone
Panason wrote:


....I think you're confused. Nobody is "ranting" or "so upset".


You'll soon learn, "this place" likes to see itself a some kind of "Eurorack commune" and anyone who breaks the illusion gets told to "go to gearslutz" even though many here also have GS logins.

Just chuckle at their rich-boy narcissism and go make some tunes with downmarket slave labour gear It's peanut butter jelly time!
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
dubonaire wrote:

I like how you name a bunch of digital modules as next level analog trendiness. At least know what you are talking about if you are going to go on a rant. No one is forcing you to buy these modules, why get so upset, or do you just want to you kids get off my lawn ? If so take it to Gearslutz.


I don't really care if they're analogue or digital.. they're modules for largely analogue systems.

I think you're confused. Nobody is "ranting" or "so upset". As far as I can see you're not a moderator, so click on that "Ignore" button rather than try to tell me where to post. This is the "General Gear" subforum. Or you can always switch off the computer and go outside if you think someone's opinion on the internet regarding the modular synthesizer market is upsetting.


It doesn't upset me, I just think it's a banal and pointless rant. It's entirely possible to have an all digital system these days so I'd say you are the one who is confused. Noise Engineering has been around for quite a while and is not really pandering to this hipster crowd you imagine as far as I can tell. So what if he gives his modules silly names. It has nothing to do with anything really.
Kopter
Muzone wrote:
downmarket slave labour gear


Stealing that name for my fictitious endeavor as a manufacturer of affordable modular synthesizers.
dubonaire
Muzone wrote:
You'll soon learn, "this place" likes to see itself a some kind of "Eurorack commune" and anyone who breaks the illusion gets told to "go to gearslutz" even though many here also have GS logins.

Just chuckle at their rich-boy narcissism and go make some tunes with downmarket slave labour gear It's peanut butter jelly time!


thumbs up I'm just here lying in a bath of rose petals throwing analogue modules into the bin, counting my trust fund interest, like all of us modular owners, busy practising champagne socialism. You got me pegged, clever man.
starthief
Panason wrote:
I believe these "boutique" (I can't stand that term) manufacturers are charging a "hip factor" premium.... with (IMO ridiculously pretentious) names like "Ornament & Crime", "Iteritas", "Cocoquantus" etc there is clearly a particular target market for these things and it has to do with a sort of next level analog trendiness. Many people believe that the more money they throw at (relatively) obscure gear the better their music will be.. And so we have people asking things like "how can I make a fat bass sound with my modular" - apparently ignoring the fact that you can make humongously obese bass with a DX7 (sine waves!) that you would never get with analogue systems.


You're equating "funny names", elitism, analog, and noobs. None of those have anything to do with each other.

Also, Ornament & Crime is open source hardware. There are people who sell PCBs from the open source specs. Somebody else designed a smaller version with a different layout. A few people make panels. A few people will assemble them for you. Other people came along and wrote improved firmware for it that became the de facto standard. You're free to build, hack, and rewrite all of that yourself without paying anybody. Nobody's overcharging for any of that.

Also I'm highly amused that you think "fat bass" can't be done in analog (with, like, one cheap oscillator...)
Muzone
dubonaire wrote:
....... You got me pegged, clever man.



fish in a barrel innit.......
Panason
Hmm ok. I must have typed "analog cannot do fat bass" somewhere without realising. I'm glad you're highly amused though!

I do think elitism, analog and noobs are very much related these days. As I said, it seems to me there are a lot of people out there who think that spending large sums on modulars (or vintage synths) will give them an edge and that is a classic noob mistake.

I'm not saying that people are stupid for spending their money on whatever they want to, by the way. Just that it's unnecessary for making "fat bass" or decent and original music. I think it's more about the kicks of patching things with cables and tinkering with electronics - doesn't do much for me. I'd pay double for the Neutron if it had a basic digital mod matrix and patch memories...

And "Ornament & Crime" sounds pretentious however much it costs, sorry!
starthief
Eh. I thought module names were weird when I first got into it, and agree they can be silly. But they're a lot more memorable than model numbers.

I own 5 Doepfer modules and one Ladik, and I'm not sure I could say what they were called if I didn't check my notes or look them up -- but I can name the other 37 modules I have with no problem. I know Intellijel's thru-zero triangle core VCO is the Rubicon, but Doepfer's two are "A-some number-some number" just like everything else they have.
Panason
Yeah I get that. I can dig names like Rubicon, and Neutron for that matter ... I think "Neuron" would have been cooler tho.

"Maths" and "Braids" have some relevance and point to what the modules actually do.

But "Cocoquantus" ? f*** off! meh
thevegasnerve
Its a fact that B- has an advantage with producing things using economies of scale/vertical integration as mentioned (vs smaller synth companies, minus Roland/Korg possibly). They can do it cheaper, that's not real debatable. Now that they are using that to provide lower prices is not a bad thing by itself. But it doesn't take much of a leap to see that placing control in the hands of few is a slippery slope, which can be a concern if we make our choices only by just the best monetary deal available. That's fine if you want to say its each individual's choice, but actually our lives our interconnected and our decisions affect others.

Some of us that have been around quite awhile have seen how these things play out. Not all of us are wealthy or have big modular setups. Nothing to do with elitism, although that does like to creep into these types of hobbies. A lot of us are just musicians that love talking about music, some of us like philosophy even more.

And if you ever own a company or have the freedom to make decisions, part of the "fun" is having the freedom to do things the way you want, including naming your products whatever you want. That said, I dig the Neutron from what I see and respect that B- has made a really cool product with nice features and a fair price (given their advantages).
franktropez
Panason wrote:
Yeah I get that. I can dig names like Rubicon, and Neutron for that matter ... I think "Neuron" would have been cooler tho.

"Maths" and "Braids" have some relevance and point to what the modules actually do.

But "Cocoquantus" ? f*** off! meh


Few things are as self indulgent, wanky, pretentious and unnecessary* as making (electronic) music and you're complaining about some of the names of the devices used in this feast of decadence?

Music is a very serious artform so there should be a lot of room for silliness to keep things fresh.

* as well as possibly totally life changing, fun and important.
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
I do think elitism, analog and noobs are very much related these days. As I said, it seems to me there are a lot of people out there who think that spending large sums on modulars (or vintage synths) will give them an edge and that is a classic noob mistake.

I'm not saying that people are stupid for spending their money on whatever they want to, by the way. Just that it's unnecessary for making "fat bass" or decent and original music. I think it's more about the kicks of patching things with cables and tinkering with electronics - doesn't do much for me. I'd pay double for the Neutron if it had a basic digital mod matrix and patch memories...

And "Ornament & Crime" sounds pretentious however much it costs, sorry!


I don't actually know how much elitism there is in this particular zone because I live in a country where I am just about the only modular owner. There does seem to be a significant number of noobs getting into electronic music of all types at the moment. I'm on a number of Roland Facebook groups and the number of newbie questions there is astounding.

As for euro, I don't think all these noobs are spending large sums on modulars anyway. Most of the noob posts asking for advice on their first modular are for systems which are almost too small. They might be making a mistake in getting into modular without much knowledge, they might be going about it the expensive way, but in the end it's a great way to learn synthesis, and if they sell the thing maybe they've lost 20% of their investment. There are worse things to spend your money on.

And you don't see many Noise Engineering modules in noob systems. But you almost always see Maths and Clouds. So I'm not sure the names of modules are having much of an influence. Loquelic Iteritas is not that much different to Euphonium or Fender Stratocaster anyway. Ornament & Crime is a cool name, and the irony in this discussion is it's the name of an essay criticising ornament in useful objects.

It seems to me there isn't a great deal of the kind of elitism you see around classical music for example. There is a bit of fashion and hipsterness in this, but there always was in music I guess. As far as I know buying most kinds of musical instruments is an expensive decision.

I have quite a few expensive modules in my system along with cheaper Doepfer systems. It's a relatively expensive rack. No one even sees my system except on the rare occasion I make a video I share. There are many more users like me than users who show off their systems.

There is no subtext of this discussion being about wanting to keep euro in some kind of 'rich-boy' elitist realm, as much as Muzone would like to think that. The discussion is genuinely about people not liking Berhinger's business model and the risks of low cost mass production leading to cost-cutting or forcing out small businesses that have developed due to the boom in eurorack.
Chopper
dubonaire wrote:


There is no subtext of this discussion being about wanting to keep euro in some kind of 'rich-boy' elitist realm, as much as Muzone would like to think that. The discussion is genuinely about people not liking Berhinger's business model and the risks of low cost mass production leading to cost-cutting or forcing out small businesses that have developed due to the boom in eurorack.


Well, the original discussion was about our thoughts on the Neutron. But obviously, anything Berhinger-related can drag Muffwigglers into Gearslutz territories...
On that note, talking about ethic while we spend money in expensive modules yet some people are currently dying outside in the cold is rather unhealthy....
They won't put anyone out of business... did Pizza Hut put the small pizzerias out of business? Different crowds... there is overlaps,but different crowds noneless. At least now if someone wants to dable into patching and asks for cheap entry, we have something else than microbrute as an answer...

Edit: dubonaire, reading your well-thoughts posts and replies is always an interesting moment for me...
dubonaire
Chopper wrote:
dubonaire wrote:


There is no subtext of this discussion being about wanting to keep euro in some kind of 'rich-boy' elitist realm, as much as Muzone would like to think that. The discussion is genuinely about people not liking Berhinger's business model and the risks of low cost mass production leading to cost-cutting or forcing out small businesses that have developed due to the boom in eurorack.


Well, the original discussion was about our thoughts on the Neutron. But obviously, anything Berhinger-related can drag Muffwigglers into Gearslutz territories...
On that note, talking about ethic while we spend money in expensive modules yet some people are currently dying outside in the cold is rather unhealthy....
They won't put anyone out of business... did Pizza Hut put the small pizzerias out of business? Different crowds... there is overlaps,but different crowds noneless. At least now if someone wants to dable into patching and asks for cheap entry, we have something else than microbrute as an answer...

Edit: dubonaire, reading your well-thoughts posts and replies is always an interesting moment for me...


I'm not actually anti-Berhinger, I just think the dialogue is worth having.

I work in developing countries and I'm amongst extremely poor people all the time as well as Chinese factory workers as it happens. I don't think the fact of poverty makes talking about expensive items unhealthy. Pretending there isn't inequality and doing absolutely nothing about it is arguably unhealthy, but that's a complex ethical dilemma and I'm not going to judge other people's life choices in that context.

I don't agree that low-cost low-margin high-volume production doesn't crowd out small business, there is plenty of evidence that it does. The cost of pizza making is not a lot different for a franchisee or for a local pizzeria, the difference there is marketing, and some margins on purchase of raw materials. But for manufactured electronics the story is very different. The only thing left for small business is to differentiate their product lines, which many module makers try to do with graphics and module names, or unique features.
Chopper
Yeah, i wasn't pointing at you when i mentionned the anti-behringer brigade. I am in line with your view on this...
My point when mentionning pizzas wasn't much about the whole marketing side of things ( again, i agree with you on that), what i mean is that there always gonna be more dicerning people (what some refer as "elitists") who enjoy the fact that they can interract on a human level with the people they buy stuff from... behringer didn't kill the boutique pedals market after all...

Edit: i am waiting for the shitstorm hitting the fan if/when they'll do a maths clone hihi
Howie_Doodat
pretty soon a bunch of 15 year olds are gonna be making better music and sounds on 4 behringers that cost about a thousand bucks total, than all the old heads in the show-off-your-studio threads that have spent half a fortune and lifetime selecting, rejecting and collecting.
dubonaire
Chopper wrote:
behringer didn't kill the boutique pedals market after all...

Edit: i am waiting for the shitstorm hitting the fan if/when they'll do a maths clone hihi


Good point.

Maths is nine parts clone anyway. Isn't the new Blue Lantern eye storm a Maths clone of sorts?
dubonaire
Howie_Doodat wrote:
pretty soon a bunch of 15 year olds are gonna be making better music and sounds on 4 behringers that cost about a thousand bucks total, than all the old heads in the show-off-your-studio threads that have spent half a fortune and lifetime selecting, rejecting and collecting.


I think that has already happened multiple times over - most recently 80s with reject Roland gear, 2000s with ITB. Nothing new about that.

Not everyone buys musical instruments to be a star you know.
WaveRider
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.

so thats exactly why im really excited about behringer being in the mix now.


great points, when I built my modular they were not many analog synths available, today I would not do it considering what you can buy now....

...but I still enjoy my 10k fart machine smile I guess we all went mad at some point, starved from analog hihi ...sometimes I fear that it will loose all resale value seriously, i just don't get it
lilakmonoke
"ornament and crime" btw. is an essay and lecture by modernist architect Adolf Loos that criticizes ornament in useful objects.

there is something to be said for building your own modular. first of all its probably the most effective anticonsumerism therapy, second you most likely end up with your own unique sound.

my favourite ambient album "treehut vision - guenter schlienz" is done by a guy who built his own system from scratch, it has a really unique sound, mostly based on sine oscillators.

http://www.guenterschlienz.de/details%20suitcase%201.html

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 album=2819078563 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]

Paradigm X
lilakmonoke wrote:
my favourite ambient album "treehut vision - guenter schlienz" is done by a guy who built his own system from scratch, it has a really unique sound, mostly based on sine oscillators.

http://www.guenterschlienz.de/details%20suitcase%201.html

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 album=2819078563 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]



really nice thanks This is fun!
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
"ornament and crime" btw. is an essay and lecture by modernist architect Adolf Loos that criticizes ornament in useful objects.


There really is nothing less rewarding than having conversations with people who don't even make the effort to listen.

dubonaire wrote:
Ornament & Crime is a cool name, and the irony in this discussion is it's the name of an essay criticising ornament in useful objects.
Mikro93
There are two things that I can't find an answer for:

What is roughly the range of the LFO?

Is there a V/Oct out, to get some pitch CV from MIDI input?

Cheers
zeit
lilakmonoke wrote:

my favourite ambient album "treehut vision - guenter schlienz" is done by a guy who built his own system from scratch, it has a really unique sound, mostly based on sine oscillators.


Yes! I really like his music too. I have Contemplation and The Norman Tapes and love them both. I always look out for what he's doing next.
sutekina bipu-on
This is going to come out before GC delivers my boog! d'oh!
lilakmonoke
keep the BOOG, its one big fuzzy sweetspot.
dubnspace
best demo yet
Panason
Yes! applause
Panason
One hour of Neutron tweaking, in case you're still not GASing



and all that with minimal patching.

This thing is massive AND sweet. Mother 32 , goodbye...

The problem is that everyone will have one! Rockin' Banana!
lilakmonoke
middle aged guy twisting random knobs for an hour on unknown synth without showing any emotional reaction = SYNTHGURU ... its the age of internet marketing but a monkey would have had probably similar results ;-)

i think it sounds good too but the filter is generic. something like this should sound like an experimental pro one or imagine it with the dreadbox erebus filter! its a bit like the deepmind, its all there but nothing is special. it was designed by the same team so that makes sense.

the model D is special all the way so that is proof special doable at the same price ...
unclebastard
dubnspace wrote:
best demo yet

SOLD. My wallet is going to take a big hit pretty soon. And I'm OK with that Rockin' Banana!
Panason
Yeah, never heard of the "Synth Guru" and the video is a bit preposterous (as if this random tweaking is some kind of performance!) but it gives a good idea of what can be done.

So the Boog doesn't sound "generic" but this does? OK....
lilakmonoke
Quote:
So the Boog doesn't sound "generic" but this does?


thats just what im hearing ... or it could be the oscillators, discrete vs. CEM chip? i dont know but with the neutron there is nothing thats strikes me emotionally in the sound while the model d does this all the time. trust your own ears.
WaveRider
I like this synth a lot but I find the sound of the filter not that great, but it does great arps and such in mid to high frequencies.

The patch points and the BBD are so cool.

if I did not have a modular I wold get it for sure.

...anyway bring them on! SlayerBadger! there is going to be one for me in the lot, maybe modelD or what is gonna come later
D Rock
BBD is cool for sure. I am on the fence but will probably end up with one just because it is so cheap and I for 300 dollars just a midi to CV with two OSCs is worth it.
GNSDG
This is just an amazing feature set, VCOs and BBD sound really cool, and the patch points actually make sense for what I would do with it.

If you don't like the filter just patch something else in. You get VCO outs and a VCA in. Unless the appeal of it for you is being self-contained... you're still way ahead price wise.
ugokcen
Yeah, the price is crazy. I don’t “need” a full voice but I might still get it for the oscillators. It’s not like you have dual oscillator modules floating around at $300!
mick
Chopper
When in the right hands....
Great sound from such a cheap rig there...
Panason
Still no sign of the Neutron at Thomann. When is it supposed to come out?
numan7
Panason wrote:
Still no sign of the Neutron at Thomann. When is it supposed to come out?


april 2018 (so next month) is what i have read.



cheers
Panason
Thanks, hopefully that's long enough for me to realize I don't really need this and don't even have the space for it. help
sutekina bipu-on
My sales rep at guitar center let me preorder one hyper RIP my credit card! lol
Panason
Why oh why.... pre-ordering is bad. It just encourages companies to release unfinished products....as seen time and time again.

Don't do it! d'oh!
SynthBaron
Panason wrote:
Why oh why.... pre-ordering is bad. It just encourages companies to release unfinished products....as seen time and time again.


GC has already ordered them, they're just selling the stock they have on the way.

What companies release finished products? Everyone releases tweaks. The Minimoog Voyager was broken in several ways when it first came out and you had to pay to get an upgrade to fix their mistakes, for example. The first production units of Behringer Model D's had single turn trim pots, later ones have multiturn.

Avoid buying the first batch of anything, lol...
sutekina bipu-on





GNSDG
Someone please make a panel for this now.
Numanoid92
I have mixed feelings.. and it's NOT because it's a Behringer product at all.. I prefer if Behringer concentrate on producing original stuff like the Neuron than the D ripoff or whatever.. aaaaaanyway...
Maybe because i'm growing up or whatever but i'm getting tired of overaggressive sounds.. I'm not saying it's bad, maybe too much in your face for me at the moment... I loved the og Minibrute and didn't find it too edgy, this for me is too much. But i like the fact that it's an original design with an interesting filter and a very lo-fi delay. It's a thumbs up for me.
westcoastsynthdude
The Neutron certainly has a distinctive sound but the color scheme is a bit much... for the price though, I guess we can't really complain.

I'm interested to get into modular synthesis so this could be the perfect starting point since it won't break the bank and has semi-modular capabilities.
sutekina bipu-on
westcoastsynthdude wrote:
The Neutron certainly has a distinctive sound but the color scheme is a bit much... for the price though, I guess we can't really complain.

I'm interested to get into modular synthesis so this could be the perfect starting point since it won't break the bank and has semi-modular capabilities.


I like the red a lot, but there are enough people who have expressed disdain with it, there will be a black-out kit available within no time of the neutron being released to the streets.
Panason
I really like the artwork on the front panel and the red will go nicely with my Nord and Virus b.

Holy shit, it sounds good. I'll take this over the MS20 anytime... Can't wait to hook it up to the TT 303!
oldgearguy
Numanoid92 wrote:
I have mixed feelings.. and it's NOT because it's a Behringer product at all.. I prefer if Behringer concentrate on producing original stuff like the Neuron than the D ripoff or whatever.. aaaaaanyway...
Maybe because i'm growing up or whatever but i'm getting tired of overaggressive sounds.. I'm not saying it's bad, maybe too much in your face for me at the moment... I loved the og Minibrute and didn't find it too edgy, this for me is too much. But i like the fact that it's an original design with an interesting filter and a very lo-fi delay. It's a thumbs up for me.


The parts where Nick was using a sine or triangle and backed off the drive seemed pretty smooth to me. In fact, what was the most impressive was the wide range of good sounds he was getting out of it. Seems like the sweet spot is pretty wide on this thing.
Panason
Nick is awesome...

You can see that he's impressed! Looking forward to see what can be done with the sine waves... Love that the LFO can sync to MIDI clock too.

I think I'm sold! Just got to find a space for it help
anselmi
westcoastsynthdude wrote:
the color scheme is a bit much... for the price though, I guess we can't really complain.


GNSDG wrote:
Someone please make a panel for this now.


I contacted Grayscale about a replacement panel for the Neutron and this was the response:

Grayscale wrote:
Hey, someone else contacted me about that today. Unfortunately I'd have to sell the panel for about $80-100, and since the unit is only $300 it would seem quite expensive. I'm also taking a break from panels for a while, tons of new modules in the queue. Thanks for asking though. I'll let you know if things change.
Numanoid92
oldgearguy wrote:
Numanoid92 wrote:
I have mixed feelings.. and it's NOT because it's a Behringer product at all.. I prefer if Behringer concentrate on producing original stuff like the Neuron than the D ripoff or whatever.. aaaaaanyway...
Maybe because i'm growing up or whatever but i'm getting tired of overaggressive sounds.. I'm not saying it's bad, maybe too much in your face for me at the moment... I loved the og Minibrute and didn't find it too edgy, this for me is too much. But i like the fact that it's an original design with an interesting filter and a very lo-fi delay. It's a thumbs up for me.


The parts where Nick was using a sine or triangle and backed off the drive seemed pretty smooth to me. In fact, what was the most impressive was the wide range of good sounds he was getting out of it. Seems like the sweet spot is pretty wide on this thing.


Yeah there were some cool sounds but i don't know... lately i've been really bored with analog synths (apart from a few really amazing synths).
Panason
How about contacting Uli directly about alternative colour schemes? Twitter or facebook or something. Personally I wouldn't mind a sky blue version.
oldgearguy
Panason wrote:
How about contacting Uli directly about alternative colour schemes? Twitter or facebook or something. Personally I wouldn't mind a sky blue version.


People did. His response was - red only.
Panason
It's gonna have to be a skin job then.

styleflip.com might do it.
sutekina bipu-on
Panason wrote:
It's gonna have to be a skin job then.

styleflip.com might do it.


I didn't look too hard but i definitely remember, in the gearslutz thread, someone said they'd start making a black skin for it as soon as they got theirs in. Whether they follow thru with it is anyone's guess.

icarbons might do it, but they won't make anything new unless it gets enough requests.
Panason
I'd go for white actually. I think part of the charm of the Oberheim SEM is the white and black colour scheme. Without wood sides! All metal! I want technology, not furniture! lol

Either way I'm all for the Neutron. The Sonic State review did it for me.
tehyar
Panason wrote:
The Sonic State review did it for me.


Me too! I was all set to wait it out and see how supply was, check out reviews and such, and then...

I started watching Nick's review. I ended up hitting pause and pre-ordering it before he was even done with the oscillator section. w00t
lisa
Beefy sound! Fantastic value, it seems. screaming goo yo
Panason
I just love seeing Nick's face when he gets a sizzling fat sound going on. That guy personifies all that is good about the UK music tech geekdom.
Panason
wow . even the YouTube comments which are usually a cesspool of negativity are overwhelmingly positive!
There is only one muppet that says "not as good as vintage" which must be a first.

here's a selection:
Quote:

The fundamental is strong with this one

Quote:

This synth must be from Manchester, as it has stolen 300 quid from my wallet.


Quote:
I love it! Bass bass and more bass is my general music theory....cant wait! Thanks Nick!

Quote:

Doofs Of Hazard

Quote:


What a wonderful time to be alive
anselmi
Panason wrote:
I just love seeing Nick's face when he gets a sizzling fat sound going on. That guy personifies all that is good about the UK music tech geekdom.


my favorite reviewer by far...his videos got perfect timing, he seems very honest and do the right balance between geek stuff and sound/music

very solid contents, keeps my attention for the whole video and it´s also fun to view
mick
Can't wait to have this in my hands!

And I'm sure Behringer will be releasing Eurorack stuff soon too. Would love to see some cheap cases from them. And now they have all the clones going, then can make a nice line of cheap VCO's and filters too
Panason
The biggest shop in my area has the Model D on display (but not in stock right now) .. they still could not tell me when the Neutron would be arriving.... Guinness ftw!
Bane
Can anyone maybe provide files for cutting the front panel? Or just take out the panel from the unit and "scan" it? thanks
Panason
I don't think anyone actually has one yet apart from a few reviewers?
synth4ever
Definitely keeping my eye on this one, love the patch bay and the fact it has a different filter sound compared to many other synths. Any ETA on actual release date yet?
racooniac
i saw here that the Behringer Neutrons can now be preordered.
Panason
Quote:
This should be called the Motherfucker 56


razz
paperCUT
The talking filter sound at around 16 mins is really stunning, extremely clean sounding. https://youtu.be/xfD8RmALHwQ?t=957
Panason
This may well be the first thing I ever pre-order as I can see it actually selling out.
tdutz
Bad news, folks. I was called by a rep at Sweetwater today about my preorder status on the Neutron and he said the expected ship date is now "sometime in late fall".

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif
Panason
Will be just in time for winter holidays .. hyper I never thought I'd pre-order anything, let alone a Behringer product! I was thinking " do i really want this" and then started re-watching the SonicState video... as soon as Nick started playing it he hit the sine wave and I immediately stopped watching and went to the shop to put down some money.
milkshake
paperCUT wrote:
The talking filter sound at around 16 mins is really stunning, extremely clean sounding. https://youtu.be/xfD8RmALHwQ?t=957


I immediately thought of Add (N) to X's B.P. Perino. They use that synthesis technique all throughout that tune in the main lead. very cool.

Again this is a no-brainer synth from Behringer.
Mikro93
Behringer announced it today with a link to MusicStore's website.

Expected to be in stock by the end of June.

https://www.musicstore.de/en_US/EUR/Behringer-NEUTRON/art-SYN0006410-0 00
cnicht
Can the Neutron generate a CV which is the analog of the Note Number from the MIDI input? i.e. MIDI to pitch CV?

I couldn’t see this output in the patch bay and not sure from the manual if it’s available at the Assign output. It would be easy to add more oscillators to the Neutron if it was available without the need for another MIDI to CV converter.

I suspect it has been omitted though because of the auto calibration the Neutron goes through on power on.

Thanks

It's peanut butter jelly time!
needto
cnicht wrote:
Can the Neutron generate a CV which is the analog of the Note Number from the MIDI input? i.e. MIDI to pitch CV?


Yep you can use the ASSIGN output for that, it has the following options:

OSC 1 CV
OSC 2 CV
"Note On" velocity
Modwheel
Aftertouch
cnicht
needto wrote:
cnicht wrote:
Can the Neutron generate a CV which is the analog of the Note Number from the MIDI input? i.e. MIDI to pitch CV?


Yep you can use the ASSIGN output for that, it has the following options:

OSC 1 CV
OSC 2 CV
"Note On" velocity
Modwheel
Aftertouch


Thanks for the reply.

I did do a ‘RTFM’ and saw that but noticed it seemed to be restricted to 0-5V. It would have been more useful to go 0-10V, maybe this will be available in a future software update?

It would be good if pitch CV and Modwheel CV were available simultaneously too.
zeit
Wow, that Sonic State demo is nice, just put this on the card for a pre-order. The price is just too good, especially for poor folks. lol And it's patchable! SlayerBadger!

Now I need a digital for FM sounds in this price range and I'm set for while. Guinness ftw!
numan7
the 1960s Power Station overlay-image someone posted over at gearslutz looks rather nice (makes the neutron seem a bit cwejman-esque, i think):


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-elect ronic-music-production/1199238-behringer-neutron-semi-modular-77.html

i _really_ don't really need (literally surrounded by patchable monosynths, etc. as i currently am), but kind of would like to try one of these at some point - mainly for its filter which i have enjoyed the sound of in the demos i have heard so far (although the rest of its features are certainly nothing to be sneezed at either).


cheers
Panason
It's on the way! Someone in Norway has received theirs and posted pic on GS. Box included some patch cables!

[excitement intensifies]



I'd go for a white overlay.
Panason


SlayerBadger!
jsco
this video really fits nicely as a soundtrack to the cat/shaq gif.
Muzone
5% discount code and next day delivery broke my willpower - will be here tomorrow smile
Muzone
it's quite a gorgeous little synth, even ignoring the price - build quality is way above what I expected, all the knobs are smooth and wobble free, connectors nice and firm and although the red is a bit "red" it's a ice anodised finish and kinda fun, and the EvilB have released the files of the front panel artwork so it's going to be easy to get hold of overlays

Sounds great, real strong bass right through to twinkly sample'n'hold madness - everything pretty much works as you'd anticipate, only had to peek in the manual to see how to switch the Osc and sub waveshapes to 'blended' rather than 'discrete' - other than that it's all good, no whinges or let downs AFAIAC

next stop, see how it plays with my 0-coast - I'm expecting interesting things......
Panason
ahhhh where is mine??? I'm in the UK too and have pre-ordered from GAK... Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!
Muzone
got mine from Inta audio, but they've gone now - had a newsletter from Studiospares today, they had 6 in stock earlier.....

https://www.studiospares.com/Performance/Synths-and-Pianos/Behringer-N eutron-Paraphonic-Analogue-Synth_393370.htm
mick
Just ordered mine, really looking forward!
Ebotronix
landed, all sounds by Neuton…


with modular …..
Panason
Got it! Watch your speakers with this one, it pushes some serious bass. This is a serious sonic weapon and everything I expected from an old-school analog semi modular synth. I used to have an MS20 and this thing has a more musical character to my ears as well as big balls.

I haven't used a patchbay on a synth since the 90s when I sold the MS20 ... I get what you guys get addicted to...

The hidden options need referring to the manual to work out as there is no indication on how to access them on the front panel but at the price this is OK. Behringer should do more with this synth. ( digital mod matrix + patch storage, and a polyphonic version)

The delay is too lofi for me but you can do some funky things with it as you can modulate the delay time on the patchbay.

The red colour is definitely not as bright as it looks on some videos!

FYI, the silver caps on the knobs are covered with plastic film.

Does anyone know if it's possible to disable MIDI clock sync on the LFO while still using the MIDI input? I seem to remember Nick Batt saying something about it... I guess I can just not send clock to it.
Panason
nevermind
Ebotronix
@panason
there is an online manual on the music tribe side.
if the daw or a unit sends midi clock, the neutron is synced.
page 13 5.7
The LFO will sync to the beat when receiving MIDI clock (it does nothing with MIDI time code).
The LFO rate position determines the clock multiplier-divider.
The LFO divider values are, from counter clock wise to clockwise: 4/1, 3/1, 2/1, 3/2, 1/1, 1/2, 3/8, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 3/16, 1/6, 1/7, 1/8, 3/32, 1/12, 1/16, 1/24, 1/32, 1/48, 1/64.
a100user
Muzone wrote:
got mine from Inta audio, but they've gone now - had a newsletter from Studiospares today, they had 6 in stock earlier.....

https://www.studiospares.com/Performance/Synths-and-Pianos/Behringer-N eutron-Paraphonic-Analogue-Synth_393370.htm


Nabbed their last one, arrives tomorrow.

Thanks for the heads up
Muzone
glad you got one smile
it's probably the most fun synth I've bought, mainly cos you've got that nagging doubt of "hmm, it's a cheap little Behringer, could well be a bit pony" but actually it's far from it and that makes it all the more enjoyable!
a100user
I got to play with one at Superbooth and was very impressed as I was with the Model D.
Panason
a100user wrote:

Nabbed their last one, arrives tomorrow.

Thanks for the heads up


Ha, I was looking at that last one this morning and would have grabbed it if GAK hadn't come through. applause
Panason
I think my only minor issue so far is that the delay cannot be fully bypassed. If you turn up the Repeat to max you can hear the feedback even with the Mix knob turned all the way to the left... no noticeable noise, thankfully. .. it's not a big deal and it sort of adds to the synth's character.
Muzone
If anyone's fretting about the graphics there's a long Neutron thread on the "forum everyone pretends they despise but lurks there anyway" where someone's putting up a variety of alternative designs and the Evil Dr B himself has posted the factory file for the panel layout so high res copies can be made.

Expect some Taktility (or similar) overlays in the near future...
Panason
Yeah... I don't mind the red but the labels for some knobs and the patchbay are hard to read in low lighting.

Another issue that comes up is that the tuning knobs move too easily and can be accidentally nudged when moving the Mix knob...

I would love it if the Mix knob had a patch point, as well as the filter envelope stages...this is a mod I will be looking into... I guess any extra patch points would have to go on the back of the synth.

The filter is so good. The LPF does not remove any bass when turning up resonance and frequency SlayerBadger!
Panason
Muzone wrote:
the Evil Dr B himself has posted the factory file for the panel layout so high res copies can be made.


Here's the link for that

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instrumen ts-and-electronic-music-production/752550d1530165603-behringer-neutron -semi-modular-indesign-neutron.zip

The pdf file has the knobs on so it's not immediately useful. Don't have InDesign to open the other file confused
Noothgrush
Panason wrote:
I think my only minor issue so far is that the delay cannot be fully bypassed. If you turn up the Repeat to max you can hear the feedback even with the Mix knob turned all the way to the left... no noticeable noise, thankfully. .. it's not a big deal and it sort of adds to the synth's character.

can't you break this via the patchbay??
Panason
I think so... there's a VCA output on the patchbay that should be before the delay.
a100user
Set it up tonight and I am very impressed with how it sounds and the build appears to be top notch.

Need to spend some time testing the jacks etc but initial feeling is positive.

mick
Synth Con Meo
I am not wanting to like this thing but I am having a hard time resisting it. Every video I watch of the stupid thing makes me more impressed with it.

Damn it!
computer controlled
Have these hit the US yet?
geoffmar
wtf this is 300$?

jeez
a100user
geoffmar wrote:
wtf this is 300$?

jeez


In the Euro world that dual VCO as a module would be more than $300 and folks would snap it up IMHO.
DonaldDuck
Synth Con Meo wrote:
I am not wanting to like this thing but I am having a hard time resisting it. Every video I watch of the stupid thing makes me more impressed with it.

Damn it!


I am feeling the same.
i guess, the moment, when i first get my hands on one, will be the moment of decision.

Peopel say it is build well, but i have to touch it myself, i think.
Panason
What does upgrading the firmware improve?
a100user
Panason wrote:
What does upgrading the firmware improve?





As a Logic user I did the upgrade with no problem.
Riggar
Anyone know the power draw in mA for mounting in a Eurorack case?
cnicht
P.16 of the manual says with reference to Eurorack mounting:

‘Before proceeding, make sure that your power supply is capable of supplying +12 VDC, 1 Amp’
AndyHornBlower
FWIW, StudioSpares (UK) are showing both the Neutron and the Model D in stock:

https://www.studiospares.com/Search.aspx?eaSearch=neutron

- 3 Ds, but only one Neutron.
Synth Con Meo
AndyHornBlower wrote:
FWIW, StudioSpares (UK) are showing both the Neutron and the Model D in stock:

https://www.studiospares.com/Search.aspx?eaSearch=neutron

- 3 Ds, but only one Neutron.


I put in an order at GC a couple weeks back or so for one since I could get it on a sale. It was supposed to be in stock a few days ago but now got pushed out until the middle of September. So it looks like it'll be a bit until I see mine.
AndyHornBlower
I got one from Juno -ordered on Friday, delivered on Monday.

I'd set up their automatic email alert for it. I got the email from Studio Spares yesterday, I think, but it only just occurred to me to mention it. I expect they had a few.

When I did the same about the Model D, a while ago, a few shops emailed me to invite me to pre-order. I felt a couple of them were quite pushy about it, when I said I don't do that, so I just made a mental note not to ask them again.
mosaiclive
I was trying to stay away from new stuff and just be satisfied with my current setup when the Mother 32 and DFAM in a 3-tier rack caught my eye. Then I came across the Neutron and then the Grandmother appeared. Now, instead of not buying anything, I've been cooking up ideas of how I could get all of these things!

Alas, we just had our second child and I actually need to do some serious downsizing so I don't think I'll be buying much of anything for a while!
phobik
got mine from uk in 4 days, played with it a few hours and felt disappointed, couldn't make it sound like instant gold record cry
Panason
For that you have to buy the Model D.. and learn how to play monosynth hyper

The Neutron is definitely on the industrial side of things... it refuses to be polite and clean, so it's not going to replace any classics except the MS20, IMO. It does seem to cover a lot of the same sonic territory, and some more.
AndyHornBlower
You could put it through another filter, of course, phobik, and start your descent into the modular rabbit hole, if you haven't already. The filter is a good part of what's different about the sound.

I prefer the Model D through another filter, apart from for bass sounds - instead of the Moog style 4 pole one, not as well as. I haven't tried that with the Neutron yet, but I definitely will.
phobik
decided to give neutron a try for the wealth of options/cost, but am spoiled by soft poly synths waah
Annwn
Enjoying mine. Particularly like the sine outputs for FM. Got carried away with patching and ended up making a Krell style piece. Does some pretty sweet Neutron bongos!

Of course it does normal analog stuff very well too. Just showing it's potential for something a bit abstract.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/arddhu/neutron-rundfunk-elektronische[/s]
AndyHornBlower
Interesting, Annwn. Is one oscillator literally modulating the frequency of the other, or is it filter modulation?
Annwn
AndyHornBlower wrote:
Interesting, Annwn. Is one oscillator literally modulating the frequency of the other, or is it filter modulation?


Thanks. Yep just common or garden FM. Both oscs in wide range and one FM'ing the other. Getting some massive 2-op bass out of this thing!
AndyHornBlower
Is there a linear frequency modulation input? I only see frequency CV inputs, so I'm guessing you'd have to use the Assignable output as a frequency CV, then a mixer (SUM) to do the modulation?

I have a CEM based Doepfer VCO (the little 4HP one), which does have the linear modulation input, but I don't see a patch socket for that on the Neutron.
Annwn
AndyHornBlower wrote:
Is there a linear frequency modulation input? I only see frequency CV inputs, so I'm guessing you'd have to use the Assignable output as a frequency CV, then a mixer (SUM) to do the modulation?

I have a CEM based Doepfer VCO (the little 4HP one), which does have the linear modulation input, but I don't see a patch socket for that on the Neutron.


Nope, just using the ouputs from the individual oscillators to the individual oscillator inputs up on the top left of the panel. You can route it so that you use the attenuators to vary the modulation depth but yes, not perfect linear FM but still definitely useable.
AndyHornBlower
From reading a bit more of the manual, it seems you probably had OSC Sync on?

I'm trying to picture exactly what happens. I was thinking it must be exponential FM, if you're modulating a 1V/octave CV, which would mean you'd have to do something else to keep the carrier on pitch - expo FM goes up more than it goes down in pitch, if there's a symmetrical signal modulating it.

I guess sync solves that problem, and it must still be FM, but I can't quite get my head around it.

On another note (Bb, maybe), I've been puzzling over the default routing (normalising) for the attenuators. The bit involving ATT2 is partly why I found it so hard to get the LFO to stop doing things - I was looking for one knob to shut it off, but it's two, because it's routed through ATT2 to Pulse Width 1&2, and also to filter cut off, via the Mod Depth knob.

ATT1 seems even weirder. It has a CV input, which is normalised to the ASSIGNable output, so if I want that to be the Mod wheel, for example, the Mod wheel is always controlling ATT1, unless I plug something into its CV input... It seems to me that limits what I can do with ATT1 quite a lot - I can't just use it as a knob controlled attenuator

Maybe a shorting plug for that input would be the answer. The spec says it can be from -5V to +5V, so maybe grounding it means "do nothing".
Annwn
AndyHornBlower wrote:
From reading a bit more of the manual, it seems you probably had OSC Sync on?

I'm trying to picture exactly what happens. I was thinking it must be exponential FM, if you're modulating a 1V/octave CV, which would mean you'd have to do something else to keep the carrier on pitch - expo FM goes up more than it goes down in pitch, if there's a symmetrical signal modulating it.

I guess sync solves that problem, and it must still be FM, but I can't quite get my head around it.

On another note (Bb, maybe), I've been puzzling over the default routing (normalising) for the attenuators. The bit involving ATT2 is partly why I found it so hard to get the LFO to stop doing things - I was looking for one knob to shut it off, but it's two, because it's routed through ATT2 to Pulse Width 1&2, and also to filter cut off, via the Mod Depth knob.

ATT1 seems even weirder. It has a CV input, which is normalised to the ASSIGNable output, so if I want that to be the Mod wheel, for example, the Mod wheel is always controlling ATT1, unless I plug something into its CV input... It seems to me that limits what I can do with ATT1 quite a lot - I can't just use it as a knob controlled attenuator

Maybe a shorting plug for that input would be the answer. The spec says it can be from -5V to +5V, so maybe grounding it means "do nothing".


Nope, no sync on. Nothing fancy. Just (from memory) OSC 1 patched into OSC 2. I don't think I even used an attenuator for that particular patch. Then just adjust the OSC mix so you only hear the modulated OSC. Sync definitely tames it and it can take a lot of fine-tweaking for more melodic functions but as you can tell, that patch had little melodic content.

If you have a Neutron, why don't you just try it out and see what happens?

Dummy plugs definitely work. Same goes for VCF IN if you want to route the oscillators to the attenuators instead of using the mix dial to avoid clipping. I find the square on OSC2 always clips before the filter otherwise.
AndyHornBlower
I will try it, but not today because I did my back in bending over my little wooden modular case, rearranging things to add a new module, then trying to cram all the cables back in so it all fitted.

So, I'm currently in a sitting down and reading mood, not a wrestling with more synths mood.

A lot of people's demos don't sound very melodic to me, especially when there's a sequencer involved. I don't like to point that out, in case it was supposed to be a bit of Bach, or a variation on "Twinkle Twinkle.." smile

To me, a demo is much more interesting when people explain how they set things up to make those sounds.

I'll murder a spare cable soon, then, to make that shorting plug. I hadn't thought of altering how the oscillator signals get to the filter. I'll try that too. Thanks.
phobik
AndyHornBlower wrote:
You could put it through another filter, of course, phobik, and start your descent into the modular rabbit hole, if you haven't already. The filter is a good part of what's different about the sound.

I prefer the Model D through another filter, apart from for bass sounds - instead of the Moog style 4 pole one, not as well as. I haven't tried that with the Neutron yet, but I definitely will.


which modules would better complement the neutron?
AndyHornBlower
phobik,

I haven't spent much time with it yet, but at the moment, I'm mostly thinking about things like another multi, and some more attenuators. Maybe just passives, to start with, so I don't have to think about powering them.

I could use my existing little case, and the things in that, but I'm thinking I'll make a small one, mostly for use with the Neutron, and stand it next to the patch bay.

If I decide to power it, probably the first thing I'd add is an attenuverter, and maybe a buffered multi, for driving lots of signals from one, without degrading the original signal.

Attenuverters are good for when you want to turn a control signal (CV) up and down but might also want to invert it.

I have a filter with CV control of resonance (Doepfer A-106-6) and it's useful for that - sometimes I want resonance to increase with the Mod wheel, sometimes I want it to decrease. It saves having to patch in an inverter to do that.

I'm also using one to control pulse width, on my Doepfer A-111-3 VCO - the knob for it on the VCO sets the zero point of the Mod wheel, and the attenuverter sets the extreme position - either more or less.

I've been meaning to make a voltage source Mod wheel - one that just produces a CV constantly, and doesn't rely on MIDI, so it's not quantised. It would leave the ASSIGN output free for doing something else with too.

What Annwn said about using an attenuator or two between the oscillators and the filter will change the sound, without buying anything else, and maybe you'll prefer it that way. You could start by patching the OSC MIX output to ATT2 (a simple knob controlled attenuator) and from the ATT2 output to the VCF IN input.

On my Minibrutes, turning the oscillator levels up beyond a certain point (around half way) makes them start to clip or overdrive the filter, which gives it the aggressive sound that some people say they don't like. Below that level, it's much cleaner and sweeter sounding.

On filter modules, there's usually an input level knob (attenuator) to do just that. On some, it's very noticeable - the sound doesn't just get louder, it changes character a lot as it starts to overdrive the filter, introducing more harmonics.
Panason
I'd want a cv controllable mixer so I can modulate the blend between the two Oscillators. And a sequencer with as many CV outs as possible. And a wavetable oscillator. I think that would be enough, no more!
AndyHornBlower
Agreed (a greed). More!

Muahaghahaha!

MuahaHhahaHaA!
AndyHornBlower
Panason,

You could use ATT1 (which is voltage controlled) to vary one of the osc levels, leave the other one constant (or manually attenuate it with ATT2), then use one of the SUMs to mix them together. It's not the same as a voltage controlled mixer, because the total level will go up and down, but it's a start.
cnicht
I wonder if the mystery PCB from Behringer will provide sequencing, extra VCO, ladder VCF and utility functions?

Any thoughts?
mhtones
Annwn wrote:
Enjoying mine. Particularly like the sine outputs for FM. Got carried away with patching and ended up making a Krell style piece. Does some pretty sweet Neutron bongos!

Of course it does normal analog stuff very well too. Just showing it's potential for something a bit abstract.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/arddhu/neutron-rundfunk-elektronische[/s]


Wow, fantastic Annwn. Didn't expect those types of sounds from the Neutron. Excited about the flexibility of that patch panel. I'm still waiting for my order to be filled and shipped.
Annwn
mhtones wrote:
Annwn wrote:
Enjoying mine. Particularly like the sine outputs for FM. Got carried away with patching and ended up making a Krell style piece. Does some pretty sweet Neutron bongos!

Of course it does normal analog stuff very well too. Just showing it's potential for something a bit abstract.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/arddhu/neutron-rundfunk-elektronische[/s]


Wow, fantastic Annwn. Didn't expect those types of sounds from the Neutron. Excited about the flexibility of that patch panel. I'm still waiting for my order to be filled and shipped.


Thanks! I'm still honing in on it's "sweet spot". Definitely think the unfiltered sawtooth is something quite special. Reminds me of when I borrowed a friend's 101 for a few months. Plus the aforementioned FM'd sinewaves is something beautiful. I think possibly the filter is the weakest part for me so far. Definitely planning on Rackbruting it and adding a few filter flavours (Polivoks, 101-esque) when funds allow. smile
phobik
AndyHornBlower wrote:
phobik,

I haven't spent much time with it yet, but at the moment, I'm mostly thinking about things like another multi, and some more attenuators. Maybe just passives, to start with, so I don't have to think about powering them.

I could use my existing little case, and the things in that, but I'm thinking I'll make a small one, mostly for use with the Neutron, and stand it next to the patch bay.

If I decide to power it, probably the first thing I'd add is an attenuverter, and maybe a buffered multi, for driving lots of signals from one, without degrading the original signal.

Attenuverters are good for when you want to turn a control signal (CV) up and down but might also want to invert it.

I have a filter with CV control of resonance (Doepfer A-106-6) and it's useful for that - sometimes I want resonance to increase with the Mod wheel, sometimes I want it to decrease. It saves having to patch in an inverter to do that.

I'm also using one to control pulse width, on my Doepfer A-111-3 VCO - the knob for it on the VCO sets the zero point of the Mod wheel, and the attenuverter sets the extreme position - either more or less.

I've been meaning to make a voltage source Mod wheel - one that just produces a CV constantly, and doesn't rely on MIDI, so it's not quantised. It would leave the ASSIGN output free for doing something else with too.

What Annwn said about using an attenuator or two between the oscillators and the filter will change the sound, without buying anything else, and maybe you'll prefer it that way. You could start by patching the OSC MIX output to ATT2 (a simple knob controlled attenuator) and from the ATT2 output to the VCF IN input.

On my Minibrutes, turning the oscillator levels up beyond a certain point (around half way) makes them start to clip or overdrive the filter, which gives it the aggressive sound that some people say they don't like. Below that level, it's much cleaner and sweeter sounding.

On filter modules, there's usually an input level knob (attenuator) to do just that. On some, it's very noticeable - the sound doesn't just get louder, it changes character a lot as it starts to overdrive the filter, introducing more harmonics.


so maybe get those passive mult hexagons and stack cables?
I'm thinking of more lfo, quantiser, and a seq so far. maybe a micro brute with more cv. or a 0-coast
1986Bowler
Hi All,
This is my very first post on the MF forum.

Does anyone have the Behringer Model D AND the Neutron?

I've planning on buying one, in order to dip my toe into the world of modulars.

Would anyone recommend one over the other and why?
1986Bowler
Hi All,
This is my very first post on the MF forum.

Does anyone have the Behringer Model D AND the Neutron?

I've planning on buying one, in order to dip my toe into the world of modulars.

Would anyone recommend one over the other and why?
a100user
1986Bowler wrote:
Hi All,
This is my very first post on the MF forum.

Does anyone have the Behringer Model D AND the Neutron?

I've planning on buying one, in order to dip my toe into the world of modulars.

Would anyone recommend one over the other and why?


If you want to explore modular, of the two synths the Neutron is a better choice.

It is semi modular - with nothing plugged in to the patch bay it is a mono synth. You can change the signal path by using the patch bay.
Muzone
1986Bowler wrote:
Hi All,
This is my very first post on the MF forum.

Does anyone have the Behringer Model D AND the Neutron?

I've planning on buying one, in order to dip my toe into the world of modulars.

Would anyone recommend one over the other and why?


I would say Neutron because in addition to it having more patching options than the Boog you'll get the excitement of having a new synth "from the beginning" and be able to learn from all the discussions/patch sharing on various groups/sites....
AndyHornBlower
Hi 1986Bowler,

I have both.

It depends what your priorities are. If you want something you can get to grips with fairly quickly, that still has some capability for patching to other modular stuff later, I'd say get the Model D. If you want something more flexible, but which may baffle you more at first (depending on your level of experience with such things, obviously), I'd say get the Neutron.

Either way, there's a good chance you'll end up wanting to buy the other one afterwards, so it probably doesn't matter too much which you buy first.

One advantage of the Model D is that it really does sound a lot like a Minimoog, so you've heard a lot of the sounds it can make already. There are lots of patches out there that you can try - the Behringer Model D has some extra bits that the original didn't have, but patches for the original work pretty much the same... maybe adjust the levels a bit lower on the mixer, because the Behringer one can overdrive the filter a bit more, apparently - I've never owned the original, but that's what I've read.
AndyHornBlower
In case you missed it, here's Synthmania working through an original Moog Model D patch book, on an actual Moog Model D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_FKXtwqJoQ

- just to give you an idea of what can be done with one, and a source of patches to try it out with.

The PDF version of that book is here:

http://egrefin.free.fr/images/Minimoog/MinimoogSounds.pdf

He did a brief demo of the Behringer Model D too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X923TL3-1ZU

- just skip past the unboxing part.
Panason
They have quite a different tone from each other and you should check demos. The Model D is hard not to like but some people will not like the Neutron's sound. If you have more to spend the Pitsburgh Modular Lifeforms is another semi-modular that could be a better investment.
AndyHornBlower
As it turns out, mine does not have the ASSIGN output normalised to the ATT1 CV input - that part of the manual is wrong, at least in my case.

I set up a MOD controlled oscillator mix and verified that it only works if I put the patch lead in myself, to make the connection - then took it out again to confirm that it stops working. I had OSC1 an octave higher than OSC2, so I could clearly hear the difference when I brought the level of OSC1 up with the MOD wheel.

I had it patched like this:

OSC 2 -> ATT2 -> SUM1 -> VCF IN

OSC 1 -> ATT1 -> SUM1

ASSIGN -> ATT1 CV, with ASSIGN set as MOD

- that's the bit I shouldn't have needed a patch lead for, according to the manual - Neutron normalised routing, half way down page 19.

I'm fine with that, because I didn't want it preassigned - for the reasons I moaned about earlier. It does make me wonder if there's already more than one hardware revision in circulation, or if they're all like that... in which case I wonder what other mistakes are in the manual.

And, yes, it does sound a lot sweeter with the oscillator levels turned down a bit, through attenuators.
AndyHornBlower
Just above the bit I referred to before, on page 19 of NEUTRON_M_EN.pdf, there's a DEFAULT ROUTINGS table which includes the same statement about ASSIGN and ATT1 CV, on the left of the page, but this on the right, under 8.1 Tips and Tricks of the Patch Bay:


10. Patch ASSIGN to ATT1 CV, set ASSIGN to MOD WHEEL, patch ATT1 OUT into OSC 1&2 pitch CV, this way the mod wheel sets the depth of vibrato, with LFO rate / shape setting the characteristics and ATT2 setting the maximum depth.


If the table and diagram were correct, the first part of that wouldn't be needed ("Patch ASSIGN to ATT1 CV"). On mine, it definitely is needed, to get that sort of effect.
RobinYoung
1986Bowler wrote:
Does anyone have the Behringer Model D AND the Neutron?

I've planning on buying one, in order to dip my toe into the world of modulars.

Would anyone recommend one over the other and why?


My son has the Model D (I'll get to try it tomorrow, but he's sent me a few recordings of it already, and it sounds great). And I got my Neutron yesterday. From the perspective of getting started with modular thinking, the Neutron is the better choice, and by a pretty long way.

Here's an example of why I'm saying that.

Apart from patching in CV and Gate, my first play around with the patchbay was when I had a sequence that I liked the sound of (I hooked up to a Korg SQ-1), in band pass mode, but it really needed more oomph at the low end. I'm used to using a SEM multimode filter on a modular, and I often reinforce the band pass sound with a little bit of low pass filter output.

You can achieve the same thing on the Neutron. So I did. There are two filter outputs in the patchbay (different pairings depending on the selected Filter Mode), so I combined band pass with low pass, using the two attenuators to mix their levels, and fed it all to the VCA.

I wasn't thinking about it, but I soon realised that, by patching to the VCA, I had bypassed the Overdrive circuit. And, actually, it sounded much better that way (for what I was doing, at least). Better clarity and dynamics, much more volume. Then I realised I could patch one or other, or both, of any two from three types of filter through the overdrive, or not... Then I noticed that one of the attenuators was voltage controlled and started thinking about all the extra possibilities that gave me.

There's a lot to get your head round with modular synthesis, but that's essentially just audio mixing, which is fairly straightforward and can also make a major difference to the sound. Plus, as soon as you start playing around with it, you start having "happy accidents" and thinking of even more possibilities.

The Model D does have patch points, but a lot fewer (and the Neutron also has more features to experiment with - particularly voltage controlled things like waveshapes, pulse width, delay time, etc). So, for example, by crosspatching the Neutron with my modular I could bypass the Neutron's own filter in favour of another filter with a completely different kind of sound but, I think, the lack of VCA In on the Model D means it can't do that.

(As an aside : I saw a couple of criticisms of the Neutron based on the fact that you can't get rid of the delay sound even when you turn the delay mix right down. I would add to that the fact that the Overdrive is always on and affecting the sound. Except, I already realised you can patch it out. And, although I haven't tried, I assume I'll be able to get rid of the delay. So they're not really fair criticisms.

However, I do wonder if it might have been better if some features had to be patched in rather than patched out. I'm not saying I won't use the overdrive, but it certainly won't be my default option. Maybe that's just me though. Anyone else have thoughts on it?
)
RiK
1986Bowler wrote:
Hi All,
This is my very first post on the MF forum.

Does anyone have the Behringer Model D AND the Neutron?

I've planning on buying one, in order to dip my toe into the world of modulars.

Would anyone recommend one over the other and why?


IF you're looking to dip your toe into modular then the Neutron is a no brainer, but honestly, the D is awesome too. Get both - I did :-)

AndyHornBlower
Yep, what RiK said. The only dilemma should be deciding which to buy first smile

My only reservation with having to patch to remove the delay or overdrive, on the Neutron, is that I'd lose the use of the headphones amp, which is nice to have. I do have other amps, and they mostly don't take up a lot of room, but I'd rather use that one.

At some point, I might be brave enough to mod it with a bypass switch, but not yet, and not while it's still under guarantee.

There's a sort of similar problem with the Model D, in that you can't get the output of the filter before the VCA, or take an external input and feed it into the VCA instead of the filter - there's only a hard wired connection between the two.

The reason that matters is if you want to use an external filter, for example, bypassing the built in one. You can, but you also need another VCA (and headphones amp) - or you have to leave the built in filter wide open, and put the other filter after the VCA instead of before it...

I hope that makes some sort of sense. The point is, both synths would have benefited from another socket, feeding the input of the VCA, which was normalled (normalised?) to the output of the stage before it (delay on the Neutron, filter on the Model D).

Even so, these things are not deal breakers, they just lead to even more module purchases, to achieve the same thing that could have been done more simply.

I am happy with both, and I'm not the sort of person who's happy with everything I bought just because I bought it so I feel I have to be.

I'm not happy with the Bass Station II, for example. I think the user interface to get to the "On Key" functions sucks, and I think the way saving a patch works is really poorly though out too - the fact that it times out from one edit mode into another (for both of those cases), means I lost more patch changes than I ever saved. The function sharing of knobs means I never quite know why it's doing what it's doing too...

I digress. My point is that I can easily find fault in a lot of things other people probably like. A couple of things could have been thought through a bit more on the Model D and Neutron, but on the whole I think they're good synths, and having spent a fairly scary amount of money putting together a single oscillator synth mostly with Doepfer modules (still ongoing), I think they're pretty good value for money.
AndyHornBlower
Sorry, I should have said they would have benefited from a switched socket between the filter and the VCA on the Model D, and between the VCA and the line out / headphones amp on the Neutron

- the Neutron already has the separation option between the filter and the VCA, but the delay is hard wired to the output stage, so to bypass the delay you have to take a signal from the patch bay, and run it to another amp.

So far, I've just been turning the delay right down - all three knobs anticlockwise, most of the time.
gentle_attack
I believe these reasons (as well as the inability to physically move/remove parts of the circuits) are why the Neutron is labeled "semi-modular" and the Model D makes no reference to modualrity at all.

The normaled connections with the ability to break with patching, make sense, but at the end of the day, if you are trying to break out the signal to an external filter, that can handle Euro levels...well let's just say I've not once seen Eurorack that contains a single module, a filter.

After all:
srsly never
AndyHornBlower
True, gentle_attack, but if someone is just starting out with Eurorack, they may well just start with one or two modules.

I started with just a Doepfer A-190-2 MIDI interface (to provide velocity for my Minibrute), powered by 14500 sized Li-ion cells, and no case. I'm still using Li-ion cells now, just the bigger 186500 sized ones, and my case is a nice wooden box I found in a charity shop, and some cheap Meccano substitute to bolt the panels together.

Point being - people don't necessarily start with a full system, and a proper rack and power supply; they might start much smaller.

The Model D has a VCA module and a headphones / line out module that becomes unemployed as soon as you start to use external modules in the signal path. The Neutron lets you keep the use of the VCA, but you still lose the headphones amp and line out - and the use of the nice big 1/4" jacks on the back.

In both cases, it's for lack of one 3.5mm switched mono socket, which seems like a terrible shame. From a modular point of view, you have one or two perfectly good modules there that you don't get to use.

Since you can, indeed, never have enough VCAs, it's a shame to lose the use of one of them, on the Model D. It's a shame to lose the use of the headphones / line out section too - on both. How much would one of those cost you as a module? I'm thinking £50-70.

So, yes, I think it's a valid criticism. On the other hand, it's not the end of the world, and one day I may well take a soldering iron to both of them to provide that missing socket.
RobinYoung
AndyHornBlower wrote:
...they would have benefited from a switched socket between the filter and the VCA on the Model D, and between the VCA and the line out / headphones amp on the Neutron


Yeah, that's kinda how I been thinking

To be fair (again), I'm currently sending the VCA output straight to my audio mixer (rather than using the Output patch point, or the normal output on the back of the unit). That gets rid of the delay completely and probably sweetens the tone a bit too. Now I'm wondering about patching up the delay separately to a different mixer channel (if the output is wet enough, which it seems to be with Mix on full). The delay's largely useless on sounds with a lot of high-frequency content anyway, so being able to take it out of the equation completely to use a different type of echo/delay is very useful (maybe even the Ibanez Echo Shifter that's currently servicing the old Les Paul/Marshall - I'm more guitarist than anything else)

But I'm satisfied that I can pretty much patch out or in anything I want - except for that final volume control/output module, and an extra patch point for it would be very nice. (On the other hand my son's now here for a few days with his Model D and 0-Coast so I'll play with them while he gets into the Neutron).

The main reason the Model D was his obvious first choice with the new Behringers, but not mine, was the fact that I already have a Doepfer Modular (3 rows and up to three voices - bottom row still left empty until I know more). So the Neutron is far more useful for me - if the Model D is "semi-modular", I'd describe the Neutron as "pretty-bloody-nearly-modular". But I'm sure I'll end up with a Model D too (I would even if it had no patch points at all, purely for that classic Minimoog sound. But I'd still like to use the Model D's oscillators with the SEM filter (and compare it with Doepfer's A-120 "moogy" filter) even if I can't patch back to the Model D's VCA.

But right now, I want to have a play around with the 0-Coast. When I saw the "what's better for getting into modular" question, my first thought was that "Neutron or 0-coast" would have been far more difficult to answer...
Chopper
Annwn wrote:
Enjoying mine. Particularly like the sine outputs for FM. Got carried away with patching and ended up making a Krell style piece. Does some pretty sweet Neutron bongos!

Of course it does normal analog stuff very well too. Just showing it's potential for something a bit abstract.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/arddhu/neutron-rundfunk-elektronische[/s]

damn, you just sold it to me with this track.... not so much the bongo stuff but the distorted delayed ambient stuff is brilliant
Panason
Has anyone been able to get that vowely "talking filter" sound that Nick was demonstrating in the Sonic State review?
Samaepstein
Chopper wrote:
Annwn wrote:
Enjoying mine. Particularly like the sine outputs for FM. Got carried away with patching and ended up making a Krell style piece. Does some pretty sweet Neutron bongos!

Of course it does normal analog stuff very well too. Just showing it's potential for something a bit abstract.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/arddhu/neutron-rundfunk-elektronische[/s]

damn, you just sold it to me with this track.... not so much the bongo stuff but the distorted delayed ambient stuff is brilliant


Indeed that last section is beautiful. Lots of character. awesome work!
Annwn
Samaepstein wrote:
Chopper wrote:
Annwn wrote:
Enjoying mine. Particularly like the sine outputs for FM. Got carried away with patching and ended up making a Krell style piece. Does some pretty sweet Neutron bongos!

Of course it does normal analog stuff very well too. Just showing it's potential for something a bit abstract.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/arddhu/neutron-rundfunk-elektronische[/s]

damn, you just sold it to me with this track.... not so much the bongo stuff but the distorted delayed ambient stuff is brilliant


Indeed that last section is beautiful. Lots of character. awesome work!


Oh, thanks folks. Yes, the first section was really just a proof of concept. It can Krell but there's a lot of other potential in there. Certainly doesn't have a gargantuan sweet-spot like the 101 but can cover a lot of territory, with some patience.
Moho
Panason wrote:
Has anyone been able to get that vowely "talking filter" sound that Nick was demonstrating in the Sonic State review?


Use the bandpass and turn LFO tempo sync off so you can get it really fast.
Panason
Thanks, but how do I turn off LFO sync? Can't see it in the manual.

I turned off sending MIDI clock to it, and also tried unplugging the MIDI cable but it still isn't going into audio rate (I can hear the cycles)

I can get the talking filter sound fine using one of the Oscillators (in full range mode) as the modulator and adjusting the pitch to find the sweet spot, but not with the LFO.
Annwn
Panason wrote:
Thanks, but how do I turn off LFO sync? Can't see it in the manual.

I turned off sending MIDI clock to it, and also tried unplugging the MIDI cable but it still isn't going into audio rate (I can hear the cycles)

I can get the talking filter sound fine using one of the Oscillators (in full range mode) as the modulator and adjusting the pitch to find the sweet spot, but not with the LFO.


Update to the latest firmware, which stops LFO sync being on by default. Requires a button combo if you want it back on.
http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Behringer/Keyboards/Synthesizers- and-Samplers/NEUTRON/p/P0CM5/downloads
Panason
Thanks. Behringer firmware update confused i 'd be horrified but apparently it's safe...

BTW it's possible to bypass both the delay and overdrive sections by patching VCF 1 or 2 OUT to VCA IN. Still sounds pretty dirty though...

The more I use and look at it, the more I realize just how hideous that front panel paintjob is.... It actually looks better in the photos, surprise!
What should be white is actually pink because the white was not applied heavily enough, and so the visibility of the labels on the patchbay is utter shit... And then there's the eye-gouging artwork that actually makes you want to look away. Dead Banana
oldgearguy
Panason wrote:
Thanks. Behringer firmware update confused i 'd be horrified but apparently it's safe...

BTW it's possible to bypass both the delay and overdrive sections by patching VCF 1 or 2 OUT to VCA IN. Still sounds pretty dirty though...

The more I use and look at it, the more I realize just how hideous that front panel paintjob is.... It actually looks better in the photos, surprise!
What should be white is actually pink because the white was not applied heavily enough, and so the visibility of the labels on the patchbay is utter shit... And then there's the eye-gouging artwork that actually makes you want to look away. Dead Banana


slight correction - patching VCF-1 out to VCA In bypasses overdrive section only; delay still in play. (see the signal flow picture on page 19).

Definitely easier to make it sound dirty. Clean requires some finesse.
Panason
The square and folded square waves are quite finicky about pulse width and you have to move carefully there to get a clean sound.

Damn, those pitch knobs move too easily. I might try the felt-pad-under-the-knob fix someone was talking about.

If I got that right the Neutron has a digital self tuning function that auto-tunes the synth on power up so I don't have to worry about tuning? It does seem to require some warm up before it's in tune?
Decdog
Hello all - first plunge into anything remotely resembling modular, so apols if this is an obvious question.

I know that the Neutron doesn't support velocity of incoming notes 'out the box'. I also know I can set the assignable out to "note on/off velocity" as per the manual, to get around this. I did this and then thought that a lone patch cable from assign out to VCA in would do the trick, but obviously not!

I tried a lot of potential patches, e.g. from Assign into envelope generator etc, or to go via attenuators to various 'ins', but nothing seems to do the trick... very frustrating I'm sure there is a simple answer, but couldn't find it on any Neutron threads...

Otherwise super excited... so much to learn... i caught myself browsing modules the other day, looking at modulargrid etc ... yikes love

Thanks
Panason
VCA CV?

(CV means "control voltage")

Quote:
i caught myself browsing modules the other day, looking at modulargrid etc ... yikes love


You need to nip this in the bud immediately- this is the start of a very serious issue. This forum is full of enablers and other addicts reinforcing each other's vice, so watch out. "What new booty did you buy?" twisted
squatch
I'm enjoying the Neutron, but the overly hot oscillator output is annoying me.
I'm getting an unmusical sort of clipping even when the resonance is quite low
Yes, I'm using an attenuator to make it usable, but I don't want to use up the patch points unnecessarily

I'm wondering if mine is calibrated badly and the filter is clipping far too easily...or a fault
It would be cool if there were trimpots to reduce the oscillator outputs but I doubt it
Annwn
Panason wrote:
The square and folded square waves are quite finicky about pulse width and you have to move carefully there to get a clean sound.

Damn, those pitch knobs move too easily. I might try the felt-pad-under-the-knob fix someone was talking about.

If I got that right the Neutron has a digital self tuning function that auto-tunes the synth on power up so I don't have to worry about tuning? It does seem to require some warm up before it's in tune?


There's a button combo for locking them in pitch. Hold "Range" on the oscillator you want to lock and then hit "Paraphonic", I believe. Not with the unit at the moment so it could also be "OSC Sync".
franktropez
Panason wrote:



What should be white is actually pink because the white was not applied heavily enough, and so the visibility of the labels on the patchbay is utter shit...


This is not the case on my unit at all. Visibility on the patchbay could be greater but it vastly improves when I don my specs.
Kummer
how are people finding it in regards to playing well with euro stuff? I want to get one but am afraid of blowing it up with euro signals or audio rate modulation.
fattyparts
squatch wrote:
I'm enjoying the Neutron, but the overly hot oscillator output is annoying me.
I'm getting an unmusical sort of clipping even when the resonance is quite low
Yes, I'm using an attenuator to make it usable, but I don't want to use up the patch points unnecessarily

I'm wondering if mine is calibrated badly and the filter is clipping far too easily...or a fault
It would be cool if there were trimpots to reduce the oscillator outputs but I doubt it


i was listening to a few demos and noticed some unpleasant distortion, thought perhaps it was due to the recording, but then i heard it on other demos too.
wasn't sure if this was because the overdrive tone is pre configured.
squatch
fattyparts wrote:
squatch wrote:
I'm enjoying the Neutron, but the overly hot oscillator output is annoying me.
I'm getting an unmusical sort of clipping even when the resonance is quite low
Yes, I'm using an attenuator to make it usable, but I don't want to use up the patch points unnecessarily

I'm wondering if mine is calibrated badly and the filter is clipping far too easily...or a fault
It would be cool if there were trimpots to reduce the oscillator outputs but I doubt it


i was listening to a few demos and noticed some unpleasant distortion, thought perhaps it was due to the recording, but then i heard it on other demos too.
wasn't sure if this was because the overdrive tone is pre configured.



No, this was with the overdrive gain off, purely oscillator into filter

The fact that I can get rid of it with an attenuator means it's a gain structure problem
I just don't want to have the attenuator permanently patched to remedy a design fault
Parhelic
Kummer wrote:
how are people finding it in regards to playing well with euro stuff? I want to get one but am afraid of blowing it up with euro signals or audio rate modulation.


I'm interested to know too. I'm considering pairing it with Marbles.
Kummer
Parhelic wrote:
Kummer wrote:
how are people finding it in regards to playing well with euro stuff? I want to get one but am afraid of blowing it up with euro signals or audio rate modulation.


I'm interested to know too. I'm considering pairing it with Marbles.


Thanks! Now if only someone would comment....
lisa
Naturally it won't blow up. It's made to Eurorack standard. Go go go, it's such great value. SlayerBadger!
Kummer
lisa wrote:
Naturally it won't blow up. It's made to Eurorack standard. Go go go, it's such great value. SlayerBadger!


Thank you for your reply. I just worry because I know they need to keep costs down in order to sell it as such a low price so I wonder if certain components used were not the best they could be. For example I have yet to look up the voltage range the Neutron accepts for CV, but if I go above and beyond that range when I plug something in (maybe on accident), I wonder if it will harm the synth or cause it's components to degrade overtime at a much faster rate.

I love the sound of the thing though, they really did a great job!
RobinYoung
Kummer wrote:
how are people finding it in regards to playing well with euro stuff?

What Lisa said. And -

I'm finding it extremely useful with euro stuff. After seeing my Neutron last week, my son immediately bought one too and brought it down at the weekend where we had the two Neutrons hooked up with his Behringer Model D, my Doepfer modular, a couple of Beatstep Pros and an SQ-1.

And once the two Neutrons had their respective sounds patched up, all the unused bits in them effectively gave us a couple of very useful toolboxes. So a spare attenuator could be used to take the heat out of a Beatstep drum trigger before using it to clock the SQ-1; we could use the LFO for modulation but also pass an inverted copy of it to a voice on the modular; I'm pretty sure we used it's S&H on the Model D and I hooked the slew processor in between the SQ-1 and a couple of the Doepfer's oscillators at one point.

I haven't tried cross-patching to the extent of patching a filter from the modular in instead of the Neutron's own filter (or vice versa) yet and I also have a notion that the Neutron's envelopes would be better for a few percussion sounds than the ones on my Doepfer A-143-2. But everything has worked just as you would expect so far, with no real problems, although I'd reiterate the general point about the need for the attenuators in a lot of the patches for various reasons.

But I reckon what it adds to a euro setup alone is well worth the price of the unit and more. Plus there's the synth itself. It's not my favourite synth sound but it's still very good, very usable and, like my MS-20, it's very easy to create sounds that slot nicely into a mix (unlike their Model D which sounds great but walks all over everything in its path - just like the orginal).

(Easy, cheesey and overlong example from Sunday evening : One Neutron on the main sequence, driven by the SQ-1; second Neutron driven by one of the Beatstep Pros for the high synth sound) [s]http://soundcloud.com/user-201121257/march[/s] )

(I have a spare row at the bottom of my Deopfer A-100 case. I thought about racking up the Neutron but quickly decided it's far more useful to leave it free to go where it's needed in my setup to minimise the use of long cables. But if I did rack it, the space at the end of the row would definitely be for extra attenuators -

There's not a lot I don't like about the Neutron and, although it has a few annoyances it's not too difficult to get round them. There are certainly issues with signal levels - it would have been a lot more useful to have level controls for each oscillator rather than the Osc Mix control - there would be plenty of room if the Tune knobs were not so big (too big - they're a nuisance and get accidentally knocked out of tune far too often as a result). But you can always patch the oscillator outs into attenuators and mix them yourself. I can't do that at the moment, though - I'm already using them to blend a little lowpass filter output into a bandpass tone that needed a bit of reinforcement. )
Kummer
@RobinYoung Thanks for the reply, that's what I was hoping to hear!

I really really like the sound of it, it plays in the same arena as some of those revered classic analog synths (no doubt due to the use of the reissued chips).
Panason
I'm getting some good sounds from this, pretty much what I was looking for but I always wish it was a little cleaner .. the noise is very much there and, along with the always somewhat overdriven sound, it gives it a lo-fi character that is hard to get away from.

The folded square wave and the wave shape modulation are huge and I don't see anything similar in other semi modulars below 1k... I would like something cleaner sounding to replace the Neutron eventually .

After reading RobinYoung's comment , I was thinking about using a mini mixer of some sort to attenuate the output of the oscillators externally (so as to keep the onboard attenuators free for other things) and then feed it to the VCF... or maybe even special cables or DI boxes that attenuate the signal by a fixed amount.... But, will that actually reduce the distortion?
anselmi
Panason wrote:
I was thinking about using a mini mixer of some sort to attenuate the output of the oscillators externally (so as to keep the onboard attenuators free for other things) and then feed it to the VCF... or maybe even special cables or DI boxes that attenuate the signal by a fixed amount.... But, will that actually reduce the distortion?


maybe this one
https://koma-elektronik.com/?product=koma-attenuator-cable
electricanada
anselmi wrote:
Panason wrote:
I was thinking about using a mini mixer of some sort to attenuate the output of the oscillators externally (so as to keep the onboard attenuators free for other things) and then feed it to the VCF... or maybe even special cables or DI boxes that attenuate the signal by a fixed amount.... But, will that actually reduce the distortion?


maybe this one
https://koma-elektronik.com/?product=koma-attenuator-cable


Less expensive on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Y1MYSYW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_13?sm id=AWWSBQ25XFHMI&psc=1
Annwn
Really haven't found mine to be that dirty. Especially when in a mix. The main culprit is the square though. Bit of resonance and boom. The attenuation trick works but I agree it is an annoying use of patching. Otherwise, I find the saw to sound pretty hi-fi and clean to my ears.

This is just a quick and boring jam to show it's smoother, melodic side. The bass does have some dirt in it but that was the plan.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/mpk-667131544/ne-01[/s]
Panason
That is nice, is that a single saw oscillator for the acid line? What are you sequencing it with?
Annwn
Panason wrote:
That is nice, is that a single saw oscillator for the acid line? What are you sequencing it with?


Yep. I'm pretty sure I brought in a 2nd towards the end though. Just Ableton for sequencing.
RobinYoung
Panason wrote:
After reading RobinYoung's comment , I was thinking about using a mini mixer of some sort to attenuate the output of the oscillators externally (so as to keep the onboard attenuators free for other things) and then feed it to the VCF... or maybe even special cables or DI boxes that attenuate the signal by a fixed amount.... But, will that actually reduce the distortion?

Yeah, that's the way I've been thinking. I haven't had enough time to experiment yet (I'm currently exploring their DeepMind 6), but I get the feeling that the filter resonance is maybe just over sensitive to some frequencies. I did play around a bit with the resonance when I had the oscillators patched out and got the feeling that the harshness may well be inherent in that filter - too high a peak level?

I haven't checked to see what difference the Overdrive makes either, I've always had it patched out, but I just started wondering if the VCF output was tailored for being heavily compressed by the Overdrive...
Panason
So we're not sure at which point the signal gets a bit too hot? I can definitely notice a cleaner tone by patching VCF Out to VCA In. But I think it's really at the oscillators going into the filter where the most dirt is introduced. Will try VCO Outs via the attenuators and then Sum into VCF In, and see what happens... once I have recorded the current patch (sometime before christmas seriously, i just don't get it ). Maybe someone else can test this!

All those hard to please vintage fanatics that complain the Cwejman S1 is "too precise and clinical" should just get a Beutron and wallow in the dirt (and send the S1 to me for storage in a sterile environment).
RobinYoung
Panason wrote:
So we're not sure at which point the signal gets a bit too hot? I can definitely notice a cleaner tone by patching VCF Out to VCA In. But I think it's really at the oscillators going into the filter where the most dirt is introduced. Will try VCO Outs via the attenuators and then Sum into VCF In, and see what happens... once I have recorded the current patch (sometime before christmas seriously, i just don't get it ). Maybe someone else can test this!

I've just patched the oscillator mix, via one attenuator, to the VCF in; and VCF1 out, via the other attenuator, to the VCA In. On the basis of 2 minutes playing around, with judicious use of both attenuators you can pretty much avoid the dirt, even with the resonance pretty high.

OK, it means I'll have to patch via something external to be able to blend the two filter outputs too, which I like doing. But I can live with that. Actually, this is starting to sound pretty good...
Panason
Good one! Aren't the two filter outputs identical?
RobinYoung
Panason wrote:
Good one! Aren't the two filter outputs identical?

No - and it's one of my favourite things on the Neutron. If you select Mode 1, which is high pass, VCF1 carries that high pass output but VCF2 carries a band pass signal; on band pass mode 2, VCF2 is low pass; and on Low Pass mode 3, VCF2 carries the high pass output. So you can mix any two of the three filter types.

(eg, I particularly like the band pass filter, but I sometimes mix in a little low pass to beef up the sound - or if you combine low and high you've got a notch filter. Really useful for getting sounds to slot into a mix.)
Panason
Cool! This is fun!
Muzone
Did anyone hear anything about the Neutron app apparently shown at Knobcon?
Can't find anything online other than it was demo'd but no details of functions.
Panason
What could the app do apart from easy access to the hidden settings that require button combos on the synth?
Muzone
I don't know, that's why I'm asking !
All I've seen is "We have created a cool app for the Neutron and will soon publish it.
The app provides access to additional internal parameters as well as configurations.
However it doesn’t offer patch memory as the Neutron was not designed for it."
From a post by Uli on gearslutz.......
so it does look like more than just a shortcut to the button press settings
Panason
Quote:
However it doesn’t offer patch memory as the Neutron was not designed for it."


Well, fuck you then Uli, you POS! I want my money back! screaming goo yo
tehyar
Finally got mine yesterday! Everything works like a charm except for one minor issue: it’s mute. It boots, I was able to flash it, my notebook can send it midi, everything seems to work fine. Followed the patch diagrams in the manual as well, just in case. But no matter what, the only thing that ever comes out of the audio and headphone out jacks is a turn-on thump. I know I’m being unreasonably picky about minor stuff, but I’m afraid I’ll have to return it. sad banana sad banana sad banana
oldgearguy
tehyar wrote:
Finally got mine yesterday! Everything works like a charm except for one minor issue: it’s mute. It boots, I was able to flash it, my notebook can send it midi, everything seems to work fine. Followed the patch diagrams in the manual as well, just in case. But no matter what, the only thing that ever comes out of the audio and headphone out jacks is a turn-on thump. I know I’m being unreasonably picky about minor stuff, but I’m afraid I’ll have to return it. sad banana sad banana sad banana


A lot of folks have that first time issue and usually it's because the level knob in the drive section isn't turned up or the waveform selected is a square and the PWM knob is at 0 or the VCA envelope sustain is at 0.

Of course, it could also actually be broken...
Panason
You also have to turn up the "Level" knob in the distortion section, which is part of the signal path unless you patch it out.
tehyar
Yep, did all that. Found the videos describing that one vca issue and tried it. Like I said, I also followed the patches in the manual. Just in case I was forgetting something, right? Support peeps confirmed it was busted. It’s only the second bit of busted gear I’ve bought since my PEK with a dead voice, and with all the shit I waste money on, I can hardly complain. Especially since Sweetwater makes it easy.
bitflip
Package arrived a couple days earlier than expected... almost tripped over the box on the way out hihi

Spent a couple hours messing about with it and... well, there's a lot to mess about with. My first impression is that it is a... new synth. Something about it sounds "Korgy" to me, in a good way. Filter warbles nicely before howling. Envelopes are snappy, enough to elicit clicking with attack to zero in some cases d'oh!

Holy shit... did they put the overdrive circuit in the delay feedback loop?! I see blown (headphones, monitors, speakers, tympanic membranes) in someone's future... zombie
EDIT: No, it isn't in there hmmm..... but one thing is certain, with the feedback control wide open, the signal can get very very hot!! Dead Banana

Unfortunately the delay seems to be in the signal path by default and can be heard spreading its low-fi goodness all over the place even with the mix level to zero. Sort of annoying innit? I understand why they put the delay in here, though, modulating it opens up the door to all sorts of mad shiznit and what's a PT2399 in quantity, like a dollar? I suppose i should not wish for hi-fi in a lo-fi box, silence is overrated, etc Dead Banana

Manufacturers, give us a dimmer control for the blinkenlights! Also, this panel... if you think the pictures are ugly, trust me, it's ten times uglier in person. lol

TL;DR: Sounds good, looks ugly, be careful!

Panason
You can remove both delay and overdrive from the signal path, using the patchbay. Yeah that front panel artwork and paintjob are extremely unfortunate and make me wonder about the decision making process there lol

There's at least one person on Gearslutz preparing to sell nice overlays for covering that shit up. Uli B has uploaded the template file for the panel so you can make an overlay yourself if you are good with graphics software.
Muzone
Panason wrote:
...... you can make an overlay yourself if you are good with graphics software.


it's not so much designing the template as having the plotter cutter to make the template itself, there's a few laminate film overlays going round the FB group now, should be available soon...

Panason
Cool, please post any links when overlays become available!
bitflip
Panason wrote:
You can remove both delay and overdrive from the signal path, using the patchbay. Yeah that front panel artwork and paintjob are extremely unfortunate and make me wonder about the decision making process there lol

There's at least one person on Gearslutz preparing to sell nice overlays for covering that shit up. Uli B has uploaded the template file for the panel so you can make an overlay yourself if you are good with graphics software.


Yeah, i hadn't considered patching out the delay and overdrive oops still getting my head around it...

If there is any such thing as justice, those responsible for the panel will be ridiculed for it until the end of time. It's a goddamn shame since the labels themselves are okay, but all the little bullshit graphics kill the mood sad banana

Enjoying the sounds it makes, though. Diggin' the percussive and plucked sounds coming out of it. thumbs up
minigmgoit
It’s a great little unit and as others have said a no brainer really. I too am enjoying the percussive sounds that can be made with it. I’m in the process of pushing it to make an entire track out of it and nothing else. It’s a lot of fun. The colour really doesn’t bother me.
bitflip
Well, i've had enough time with it to begin with the standard compulsions... sooner or later i'll have to peel the protective plastic film from the knob inlays... hihi

Surprised at how much gain is available in the delay circuit, and how much headroom exists in the output to handle it... As the feedback (labeled "REPEATS") knob approaches the full open (clockwise) position, in some circumstances the signal gets amplified in the loop - and this can get out of hand very quickly, with the output level going from "comfortable" to "SUPER FUCKIN HOT" in a very short time Dead Banana


Maybe i should try panel overlay design! Miley Cyrus Though i resent small form factors, i can forgive them - shitty panels, though, are just an unnecessary evil twisted
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