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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Neutron The New Behringer Semi-Modular Synthesizer
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Author Neutron The New Behringer Semi-Modular Synthesizer
Man-In-A-Suitcase
No VCS, 101, 2600 clones etc, but a new Semi-Modular Synthesizer.

Discuss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaxG5g266A
Ambientdreaming
Sounds good to me!
chvad
it does sound nice. very cool!
chvad
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?
slicetwo
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?


It's giving me a semi! badumCHI!
chvad
Thank you ladies and gentlemen! Make sure to tip your waiters waitresses and bartenders!
Man-In-A-Suitcase
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?

yes it's semi, it has a 7x8 jack patch matrix on the end of the module (but it's not seen in the video)

but there is a photo of it (during assembley phase)

chvad
nice!!!
GovernorSilver
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?

yes it's semi, it has a 7x8 jack patch matrix on the end of the module (but it's not seen in the video)

but there is a photo of it (during assembley phase)



I remember that photo! Somebody here was 100% convinced it was for their MS-20 clone. lol

Neutron makes a lot more sense.
racooniac
so behringer is not a joke anymore?

since i know this brand their producs could be ignored easily because yeah ... but lately i am not so sure about that anymore, what do you think?

the same seems to go for their fx-boxes since they've bought tc-electronic .... so do i have to check their products out now all of a sudden? ;o)
mamsk
racooniac wrote:
so behringer is not a joke anymore?

since i know this brand their producs could be ignored easily because yeah ... but lately i am not so sure about that anymore, what do you think?

the same seems to go for their fx-boxes since they've bought tc-electronic .... so do i have to check their products out now all of a sudden? ;o)


i can't praise the deepmind 12 enough at the price point you can pick it up for. almost inexcusable not to have one haha
BTS
GovernorSilver wrote:
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
chvad wrote:
dont see any patch points though.. you sure its semi?

yes it's semi, it has a 7x8 jack patch matrix on the end of the module (but it's not seen in the video)

but there is a photo of it (during assembley phase)



I remember that photo! Somebody here was 100% convinced it was for their MS-20 clone. lol

Neutron makes a lot more sense.


That was me. d'oh!

Like I said before, it was the patch points that deceived me.

Still, if the suspected price point holds (supposedly $250-$300), it'll be an impressive synth for the price.

I'm just hoping for some more info.
Jason Brock
Nice. On-board delay seems to be analog BBD (CoolAudio V3205 chips). Also, I see two Attenuator pots - very nice to have those included on a semi-modular with patch points.
lisa
300$? Must be more, surely?
starthief
If it really falls into the $300 range, it's far more interesting to me than the Model D...
Bob Borries


This is a mock-up of the front panel taken from the teaser video. Will there be programmable presets?
lisa
Bob Borries wrote:
Will there be programmable presets?

In a semi-modular synth? Unlikely, right?
cwhiley
Uh, $300. Ok I'll try one just for shits and giggles. If it sucks I'll hang it on the wall.
poladark
Only one LFO :(
High Wolf
Finally, someone realize some of us want sine waves, and on both VCO's.
t-bone
o hell yea!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWwI2sa4PU4[/video]
budinis


little correction thumbs up
t-bone
Thanks ^
Chopper
The original 3340 don't have sinewaves as waveform, do they?
Anyway, individual vcos out on the patchbay with sine waves, nice fm possibilities, methink...
A small semi modular with bbd delay and those tonal possibilities for cheap, could be from Behringer or LIDL, i am all over it already anyway....
chvad
semi modular with a slew.... loving it. this thing sounds sweet.
starthief
NICE. Really curious about price now!

To be picky, I could wish for two things: CV over delay time, and individual shape outs (or at least a square) for at least one of the VCOs.

But it still seems like a winner overall.
mick
Uli wrote on GS:
Quote:
The VCO's are indeed the legendary 3340's but amended with new circuitry; however the filter is a complete new design.

We call it the Moffatt filter, named after our design engineer Keith Moffatt from our Manchester Innovation center.
Keith is a very talented and passionate guy who has been experimenting for years with new synth and in particular filter designs. His Moffatt filter is his baby and a great contribution to the many innovative features you will find in the Neutron.

In the upcoming videos we will share with you the story behind the Neutron and especially the wonderful people behind this instrument. We have also invited some great artists to share their sounds and music with you.

I guess you can tell that we're having a lot of fun:-)

Uli



Very exciting times!
psykon




It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
dubonaire
The world's most hideous synth.
Man-In-A-Suitcase
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.

being discussed in the world's most nauseating forum.
Muzone
Let's face it, nothing made by the "Evil B" will get by without the usual snide comments from the forum peacocks.

I've never bought a synth on its looks, guess some folk are a bit more superficial.......
tarmoog
3u Rackmountable?
SteeVtheRipper
I actually really like the look of it. It’s quite striking. Reminds me of old Soviet propaganda artwork. I dig it. This (or something like this) is something I could put money behind. Something of their own design, not something someone else designed.

I’m excited to see more!
AW198
Looked amazing until I saw it. Definitely interested from the features and price, but it'll also be the first time I look into custom panels...
dopefiend
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


Hahahaha!!! Have to agree 100%.
dopefiend
......but looks notwithstanding, the features are damn enticing. Problem for me are mainly all the oblique black lines criss crossing the patch jack panel. They do something to my eyes that makes it hard to focus.
Notron fn
I guess with the 3340 Oscs they won't have to worry about the calibration process they have to go through with the model d.
Notron fn
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


It does make me appreciate my ms-20m a little more.
lisa
I'm guessing about $499. That would make it competitive. Anything below would make it a steal, imo.
numan7
Guinness ftw! can't wait to see one of these with a grayscale panel!

woah otherwise, WOW -- nice patch-bay!!!


cheers
starthief
starthief wrote:
To be picky, I could wish for two things: CV over delay time, and individual shape outs (or at least a square) for at least one of the VCOs.


I missed the "delay rate" input, so nevermind. I'm fully behind this thing if the price is around the range I expect.

dopefiend wrote:
Problem for me are mainly all the oblique black lines criss crossing the patch jack panel. They do something to my eyes that makes it hard to focus.


I think it's also actually blurry in the shot lol

I kind of like the looks, and kind of don't... but I don't like my own looks either, so I'll deal with it cool
dubonaire
Muzone wrote:
Let's face it, nothing made by the "Evil B" will get by without the usual snide comments from the forum peacocks.

I've never bought a synth on its looks, guess some folk are a bit more superficial.......


I hope you are not referring to my post, but it seems you are.

Firstly, saying a synth looks hideous is not snide, it's a straight out criticism of its aesthetics. Get your insults right. And aesthetics are somewhat important to me,I don't like to surround myself with things I think are ugly. Call that superficial if you like.

And secondly, there is no need to make personal attacks because I have an opinion on the synth's appearance. I don't hold any particularly strong view on Behringer one way or the other.
Richjk7
Wonder if they will make cheap euro cases as well.
numan7
hmmm..... i wonder how the two 'moffat' vcf outputs (vcf1, vcf2) work... maybe 1 is dedicated low-pass out and 2 is panel-selected mmf... hmm.... ?


cheers
Howie_Doodat
I love the spacing of everything. very ergonomic. I'm sick of all the compact shit.
Funky40
haha, i like the Look ! hihi at least the colour. yeah, not so much the lines.


this thing will pair absolutely well with Elektrons new DTo, and together to a DT, you can bet.


the first one, of ALL those analogue Toysynths ( and also bigger ones) which has my real attention.
needs to be a steal though that i would (and could) jump
Chopper
starthief wrote:
NICE. Really curious about price now!

To be picky, I could wish for two things: CV over delay time, and individual shape outs (or at least a square) for at least one of the VCOs.

But it still seems like a winner overall.


There seem to be a "delay rate" in....
dubonaire
Funky40 wrote:
haha, i like the Look ! hihi at least the colour. yeah, not so much the lines.


this thing will pair absolutely well with Elektrons new DTo, and together to a DT, you can bet.


the first one, of ALL those analogue Toysynths ( and also bigger ones) which has my real attention.
needs to be a steal though that i would (and could) jump


I think the Radikal Technologies synth is pretty cool.

I get some people would like the colour and it would have good stage presence. But yeah with the lines for me it’s too much.
anselmi
dopefiend wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


Hahahaha!!! Have to agree 100%.


another vote for this...

SteeVtheRipper wrote:
Reminds me of old Soviet propaganda artwork


what? no! Dead Banana
this is more like a cheap 90s trance look than soviet constructivism!


Quote:
I could put money behind. Something of their own design, not something someone else designed.


well, not 100% true...you know the issue with Curtis, right?


lisa wrote:
I'm guessing about $499. That would make it competitive. Anything below would make it a steal, imo.



I bet it´s below it...behringer is trying to hard hitting the market...I guess $399
cwhiley
Y'all think it's more expensive than the Model D? Why would it be? There's not much more to it....they look close to me in terms of materials...aside from the fact that this has all that patch i/o. I vote $299.
anselmi
cwhiley wrote:
Y'all think it's more expensive than the Model D? Why would it be? There's not much more to it....they look close to me in terms of materials...aside from the fact that this has all that patch i/o. I vote $299.


good point

anyway, I think that materials and manufacturing isn´t so decisive in behringer´s final prices than marketing strategies...they lower the price of the model D in about $100 from the initial announcement...what small company can do this move? they´re thinking in a much bigger business model than just the component count...I think they can do all this without earning a penny, or even losing money, just to position themselves in the market and sweep part of the competition. In the medium and long term surely end up winning much more in that way.
D_Bowman
I'm red-green colorblind and even I can tell that this thing is red, so it must be pretty red. But looks good to me in whatever version it is I'm seeing it.
slam
Looks like a winner to me. I can’t wait to get my hands on one.
electricanada
I saw somewhere that the price would be $250-300. Given that it's competing with the Mother 32 and the O-Coast, I can't see paying more than that myself, but I would certainly pull the trigger at that price. Hoping it will be easily mountable in a Eurorack case, like the Mother.

Agree that it appears to have been kidnapped, thrown into a van, taken to a dark dank basement, and expertly beaten by secret policemen wielding an ugly baton turned up to 11.
calaveras
dissapointed in the lack of 2nd LFO, or noise/random on the LFO.
Also not digging the 90's rave-o-techno color scheme.
Maybe there will be a Sweetwater monochrome white edition?
anselmi
calaveras wrote:
Also not digging the 90's rave-o-techno color scheme.
Maybe there will be a Sweetwater monochrome white edition?


or styleflip
chvad
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.
dadRabbit
chvad wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.


Mopho is pretty bad too imo
DSC
Yep, I will be getting one of these and immediately I will be changing out the red panel with a matte black powdercoated aluminum panel!
chvad
dadRabbit wrote:
chvad wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.


Mopho is pretty bad too imo


oof . yeah totally. forgot about da' mopho.
anselmi
chvad wrote:
dadRabbit wrote:
chvad wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


For me, the Andromeda will forever hold that title. This ain't sexy but I can live with it.


Mopho is pretty bad too imo


oof . yeah totally. forgot about da' mopho.


early DSI stuff are ugly as hell...I think the Tempest was their first product with decent aesthetics
Hi5
calaveras wrote:
dissapointed in the lack of 2nd LFO, or noise/random on the LFO.
Also not digging the 90's rave-o-techno color scheme.
Maybe there will be a Sweetwater monochrome white edition?


Hear you on the 2nd lfo but there is a sample/hold and a noise source so both are patchable to your hearts delight.

Assuming the price is right this is going to be a hard one to pass by.
slicetwo
This with my 0Coast and A4 would be a great combo. I'm sold.
Gyroscope
Sounds great!
Chopper
dubonaire wrote:
The world's most hideous synth.


Bob Borries
poladark wrote:
Only one LFO :(


Is 10 more LFO's good enough for you?

Funky40
is it eurorack rails mountable ?
has that been stated somewhere ?



and stopp bashing here red, please hihi
wink
GovernorSilver
To each his/her/their own. I was tempted to buy one just because of a particular button:



Oooh, baby, baby
Baby, baby
Oooh, baby, baby
Ba-baby, baby

Push it good
Push it real good
Ah, push it
Ah, push it
bwhittington
Bob Borries wrote:
poladark wrote:
Only one LFO :(


Is 10 more LFO's good enough for you?



Thank you. lol
starthief
I saw someone added this to ModularGrid as a Euro module and claimed it was 90HP.

Anyone have a source for that, or was it based on estimating proportions from the video? Is it perhaps 19" rack mountable? hmmm.....
Lauflicht
Excellent move by Behringer, thanks for the patch points! I will start to take Behringer serious. But I'm sorry to say that the front panel is hideous and needs a redesign. Well, maybe that's a matter of taste?
Howie_Doodat
there's no way their foray into analog synths is in anyway directly related to behringer the budget pro(lol)audio company that manufactures barely reliable digital trash, right? Like, most likely the owner simply funded a division of engineers and developers, as a cash grab undercutting the competition in the wake of the analog synth and module explosion. I'm torn between whether or not they should have kept the namesake for this radical departure, or created a subsidiary branding. I guess no matter what, when you hear the B word, you are going to expect low prices, so they have that going, but for some, its a scarlet letter and instant avoid, but hey, if it sounds good, it sounds good!
Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.
starthief
Howie_Doodat wrote:
Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.


Speak for yourself, Moneybags hihi

If I had a Behringer D and someone offered me a straight trade for a Minimoog Model D, I'd take it, sell the Moog, and maybe buy another Behringer D and enjoy the money hihi Or more likely, buy the Neutron because it frankly looks like a lot more fun.

My favorite non-modular synth is a Microbrute I paid $250 for. It is, to me, THE REAL SHIT. The Neutron also, from the little we've seen so far, seems like it is THE REAL SHIT.
esko997
I just got the Behringer Deepmind 12, and I'm really impressed with it; looking forward to their new offerings.

I agree with Starthief, I feel like lots of gear that is coveted today was the budget stuff that working musicians could get a hold of back when it was released. Excited to see what people do with all this stuff and if the Behringer stuff holds up well over time.

Definitely remaining optimistic regarding the Neutron!
Howie_Doodat
Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad there's such a vast selection of budget-minded electronic music making gear out with no end in sight.
Also, I am a broke boi, and think the Neutron looks and sounds rad and I will most likely be buying one ahead of the mother 32, the the 0 Coast and the Phenol, all of which i've been debating on buying one of, for awhile now.
cwhiley
Howie_Doodat wrote:

Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.


Oh boy.

I just hang out in "General Gear" because I can't afford the REAL SHIT that all the badass modular guys rock. One day I'll grow up and be a real boy with real money and I'll be as cool as all those guys in the other subforum. Hey, a little poor boy can dream right?

In all fairness Howie_Doodat, I just read your reply, so I guess you're just a regular guy like the rest of us.

I despise elitism.
Notron fn
The real question is whether or not you can successfully rock a pony tail.
Koekepan
https://files.catbox.moe/5pfwuf.mp4

All gear under $1000, and most of it well under $500 (including the laptop used to save the video).

Volcas and Waldorf Blofeld feature heavily.

I'm always interested when Behringer come out with something I might be able to scare up with a bit of tax return or saved pocket money.
cwhiley
Notron fn wrote:
The real question is whether or not you can successfully rock a pony tail.


I can although I need to go a little longer in order to prevent escapees. LOL


dubonaire
Serial-killer selfies aside, even though I can afford the REAL SHIT (also known as the true aquatic centipede black meat), I hang out here because it's where the people who actually make music hang out and it's way more friendly than anywhere else. Here I feel like you talk to people who actually use the synths rather than a bunch of people who pretend to use them.
Howie_Doodat
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.
WaveRider
well said
clipper
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone
a100user
Howie_Doodat wrote:
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


A point of view I have come to realise due to too much kit and zero output.
sutekina bipu-on
a100user wrote:
Howie_Doodat wrote:
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


A point of view I have come to realise due to too much kit and zero output.


Which is why i have been down sizing massively, But enough about that, if I don't get an estimated release date from Behringer soon on this thing I might have a heart attack from anticipation before it hits the market.
Notron fn
But when is behringer going to make a hardware sequencer to go with this?
mamsk
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs
Funky40
Howie_Doodat wrote:
Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.

*your entire post* was full of bullshit. Up under the roof.
please learn to look at things in a more differentiated way.
or hold please back with such posts, Thanks
clipper
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs

well, if Korg and Arturia can sell the Monologue / Microbrute for $300, Behringer can do it too razz
mamsk
clipper wrote:
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs

well, if Korg and Arturia can sell the Monologue / Microbrute for $300, Behringer can do it too razz


i agree they're gonna keep the price down, but i'd think $299 or $349 when it hits. if it really comes in below the model D then i'll get two haha. either way i hope they hurry up.
clipper
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
mamsk wrote:
clipper wrote:
ugh, this is for sure running for ugliest synth of the year lol
let's see the price, I bet it will costing less than the model d clone



i highly doubt it'll be <$299. i think that's probably the pricing floor. if it's $249 it's gonna sell like drugs

well, if Korg and Arturia can sell the Monologue / Microbrute for $300, Behringer can do it too razz


i agree they're gonna keep the price down, but i'd think $299 or $349 when it hits. if it really comes in below the model D then i'll get two haha. either way i hope they hurry up.


yes, thinking a little bit more, between $299 - $349 would be the best bet hihi
they're gonna say the synth has new technology, it's not a clone and so on..
lisa
Howie_Doodat wrote:

Most MW forum members aren't the target market for this kinda thing though, because they can afford the REAL SHIT.

Haha, what? How isn't a synth with 50+ patch points the real shit? lol
cwhiley
Maybe I am a serial killer. screaming goo yo A serial killer who can't afford THE REAL SHIT. meh I can eat people though. zombie twisted
electricanada
Howie_Doodat wrote:
I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


Not a thing wrong with doing it that way, though.
Howie_Doodat
there is nothing wrong with it at all and i dont mean to offend anyone here.
except behringer. your SHIT ISNT REAL!
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Howie_Doodat wrote:
there is nothing wrong with it at all and i dont mean to offend anyone here.
except behringer. your SHIT ISNT REAL!


All eurorack synths are Behringer, because they own the company that makes many of the chips used in eurorack modules, including my beloved 2164. All hail Behringer!
Hi5
Always glad we got some Realness Police out here.
calaveras
I did some real shit last weekend.
I got trapped in multiverse roulette. I kept coming back in the wrong reality. Like a demented episode of Rick and Morty where everything is normal but all the people are Kronenbergs. Or All the people are normal but Chairs talk and TV's are sentient.

So yeah, don't take DMT without a trip chaperone. It's the real shit.
cwhiley
Mimosa hostilis!
Howie_Doodat
$299 is the price point im hearing. insane if so, but that's what I would expect. maybe $349 at most. the main vco and filter using the CEM3340 chip is cool and all but it's a cheap and easy circuit and the overall design isn't exactly anything new. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.
calaveras
dont you mean later Oberheim?
Early Oberheim was discrete. Later Obie was chip.
kindredlost
Howie_Doodat wrote:
.. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.


Or PAIA Proteus. hihi
electricanada
Wait, how do we know what the chip is? Or is this the DMT talking again?
starthief
electricanada wrote:
Wait, how do we know what the chip is? Or is this the DMT talking again?


The front panel kind of obnoxiously says "3340 VCO" on both VCOs hihi And Uli Behringer said they are "the legendary 3340's but amended with new circuitry."

Also they showed a photo of the board. There are a pair of CoolAudio V3205SDs (4096-stage BBDs).
electricanada
starthief wrote:
electricanada wrote:
Wait, how do we know what the chip is? Or is this the DMT talking again?


The front panel kind of obnoxiously says "3340 VCO" on both VCOs hihi And Uli Behringer said they are "the legendary 3340's but amended with new circuitry."

Also they showed a photo of the board. There are a pair of CoolAudio V3205SDs (4096-stage BBDs).


Ah thanks. I must have been too busy huffing gasoline to notice.
calaveras
cwhiley wrote:
Mimosa hostilis!

Someone has been watching Hamiltons Pharmacopia.
dubonaire
calaveras wrote:
I got trapped in multiverse roulette.


Highly quotable and very entertaining. Alien
sci700
kindredlost wrote:
Howie_Doodat wrote:
.. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.


Or PAIA Proteus. hihi


Now we're talking!
clipper
gonna be cheap

electricanada
clipper wrote:
gonna be cheap



That was relentlessly non-informative.
dubonaire
electricanada wrote:
That was relentlessly non-informative.


Matching spec frames though.
nomadjames
Both those videos have been non-informative. It's an art form.
cwhiley
I'm still very interested. This will give me a way to experiment with patching between my MB and another piece of gear w/o regretting any real expenditure.
mg05
Howie_Doodat wrote:
It's generally true that someone with one or two somewhat versatile pieces of gear that they know inside and out is more productive output-wise than those with a room full of studio queen keys that barely get used to their full potential, if at all - or racks on racks of modules that take an hour of prepping before they maybe get the sound they seek. I know way too many people that have around 10k worth of eurorack and basically they just baked, patch up some random points and sit back letting the sequence run, waiting for a momentary voltage spike or variation that changes up one thing in the pattern, which occurs maybe a couple times an hour. Basically it's more of a trippin toy to jam on than a tool for creating and recording new and fresh forward-thinking sounds or god forbid complete a structured song.


Whether true or not, even if, why are you judging about about people making their own music the way they want to or judging instruments? Why do you care?
Even avantgarde musicians / studio work horses / super synthesizers must respect other music(ians) and instruments.
Why declaring it as a 'trippin toy jam' instrument?
What has g'd to do with it?
And why should be any kind of music forbidden whether in a cheap or luxury-want-to-be-pro studio setup?
Bad vibrations or what?
a100user
cwhiley wrote:
I'm still very interested. This will give me a way to experiment with patching between my MB and another piece of gear w/o regretting any real expenditure.


For the price of a a half decent VCO it's a lot to play with.
Funky40
just stumbled over the Model D two days ago.
i´m quite impressed from the demos.
i wonder how much sense it would make to get both ? hmmm.....
short on money for both me thinks..........but: i could ditch some other wtb.
your thoughts, model D vs. red monsta ?
cwhiley
Do you want Moog sound or random other sound? Not much is known about what kind of sound the Neutron creates other than the only demo that actually makes sound...Other than that it's a crap shoot at this point.
dubnspace
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail
ignatius
psykon wrote:



am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.
dubonaire
ignatius wrote:

am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.


No you're not. You should read back through this thread.
cwhiley
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail


I called it. Said before I figured it would be exactly the same price as the D.

Too bad I have spent ALL the money I am willing to for pretty much the rest of the year. I'm going to start saving for the Waldorf Quantum. If I exhibit some discipline I should have enough to buy one outright by March 2019. Hey, not so bad right?! For now it's time to write music!

Looking forward to seeing what people do with these though. Just think, you could have 6 Neutrons and 6 model D's for $3600. Would be really neat to see if anyone builds a Behringer monster.
ranix
Looks great. Cheap as hell. Way more interesting than the minimoog clone. Unfortunately I do not need it since my existing equipment totally covers all of its functionality
Howie_Doodat
whoa only $300
hmm..i think i'll buy a nice new pair of shoes instead.
revtor
ignatius wrote:
psykon wrote:



am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.



Why they would put a red synth on an orange table..? I have no idea. Ugly!? For $300 you just take what they’re squeezing out of those Chinese kids hands.
mick
ignatius wrote:
am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.
In this pic it looks totally different though:



Here it looks really good nanners
dplduffy
Wow that pic does look totally different. Didn't realize these were already rolling off the assembly line. Maybe they will actually hit their April target, however I'm skeptical after the D delays...
ugokcen
I was not tempted by the Deepmind or the D, though I have to say at this price this thing will be hard to resist. That patch panel makes it pretty much an extension of a Eurorack system. Those Midas guys clearly know what they are doing.

I was saving up for the new Rubicon, but now I'm not so sure... But wait, the Neutron doesn't do thru-zero fm hihi
electricanada
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail


MF seems to have taken that page down. I find no inkling of the Neutron on their site.
dubnspace
electricanada wrote:
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail


MF seems to have taken that page down. I find no inkling of the Neutron on their site.


Yep, both MF and Guitar Center took the listing down. I did preorder with a coupon when it was active and they have not cancelled my order. Uli B. confirmed the 299 price and would be shipping late April/May.
evilspock
Wow. With a 15% off coupon you're looking at getting one of these for $255 shipped. That's a no-brainer even if you think the sound of the thing sucks and you just end up using it as a bank of utility modules for your Eurorack.
dubnspace
evilspock wrote:
Wow. With a 15% off coupon you're looking at getting one of these for $255 shipped. That's a no-brainer even if you think the sound of the thing sucks and you just end up using it as a bank of utility modules for your Eurorack.

yep. but behringer haters will hate..
Howie_Doodat
It looks the same in that factory photo, i don't know what you guys are seeing different. it looks less orange, that's about it. Someone's gonna make a lot of money selling a refacing kit for that thing. hah
radiokoala
booty wiggler RED IS THE NEW RED!booty wigglerbooty wigglerbooty wiggler


Bananallama!
listentoaheartbeat
It's cheap, so it has to look like shit – or what is the logic here?
Dave Mech
Probably should've gone with a black panel. Maybe someone will do a greyscale panel for this thing?

Either way, this is going into my modular that I recently started for sure, until I fill it up with more specific modules, this thing has a lot of utility for such a small price smile. If someone creates a black or grey panel for this, I'll buy that too razz
grillo
I've seen this on modulargrid as well, will it be euro rackable like the mother 32 or nah? It looks slightly taller to me than euro but I don't know.

Still, I think this is a lot of synth for the money, but like the beri model D I really wish they offered a keyboard version. This is my hottest take but I really don't find the whole 'tabletop full of little units' a cool or inspiring setup at all.
sutekina bipu-on
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
It's cheap, so it has to look like shit – or what is the logic here?


Howie_Doodat
Cheap stuff = cheap materials inside and out, not to mention budgeting time and money on research and development. Look at the Model D. Can't get it out there as promised yet because, yeah you can build a mini clone, people have done it for years, but can you source reliable and stable electronic parts and material for a solid chasis with a weighty and quality tactile interface?
anselmi
idm wrote:
Probably should've gone with a black panel. Maybe someone will do a greyscale panel for this thing?


+1 for greyscale panel needed...this thing is hideous
mckenic
I cant believe how much I dig the white panel posted on the 1st page of this thread - if that were available I'd snap this up in an instant just to look at it hihi
Muzone
.....already having a Meeblip, Micromod & a red Microbrute I'm looking forward to another red monster for the collection smile

Bah humbug to the monochrome dullsters :p
dubnspace
Howie_Doodat wrote:
Cheap stuff = cheap materials inside and out, not to mention budgeting time and money on research and development. Look at the Model D. Can't get it out there as promised yet because, yeah you can build a mini clone, people have done it for years, but can you source reliable and stable electronic parts and material for a solid chasis with a weighty and quality tactile interface?

Err, the Model D is out and in the hands of many (mine shipped Tuesday)., as well as in stock at Guitar Center and Musicians friend.. Also read the thread over on GS, I don't think a single person has complained about the build quality, most saying how impressed they are with the quality...
suboptimal
Show me one person who buys a new piece of gear and complains about the build quality after 30 seconds of unwrapping it and I'll show you 5000 who rave about how great it is. In the old days when Harmony Central reviews were a thing it was a matter of course that every review included the "built like a TANK!1!" cliche, usually preceded by "I just got this 5 minutes ago and WOW!"

We'll see how well these hold up over time. They have to be using the cheapest possible jacks and pots. Maybe they'll be easy to service (and mod). At this price it's going to have plenty of buyers.
Funky40
suboptimal wrote:
....... They have to be using the cheapest possible jacks and pots. ......


But you are aware that we get to buy 400$+ modules in euro which also use the cheapest possible jacks ?*

can´t judge on the pots......and do not judge pots based on how much they wobble wink
but i know the jacks,......well, original they would be called "sockets" not ? ( vs. jacks)


* not saying they used those sockets just to save money.
I guess they used those because this and that guy used them too.
...refering to those sockets which appeared the fisrt time in euroland when earthenvar had his debut, by doing a "Group-buy".
i was part of it, i know these sockets and i know the prices back then........




pointless points in my opinion.
Your points can have value if you go much more specific into details.
.....and if we would judge with the same measure in the euro forum,
it would be a place full of rants. over and over..........but nobody does
starthief
Failures in my experience:

Jacks: Korg, Radio Shack hihi
Pots: Teenage Engineering
Keys: Moog, Korg
Joysticks: Korg
Ribbon: Moog
Battery soldered to circuit board: Korg
Random crashes & weirdness: Groovesizer, Keith McMillen, Twisted-Electrons
Encoders: none
Displays: none

I'm not particularly worried about the Neutron suddenly failing because it costs less than Internet People think it should. seriously, i just don't get it
Panason
but but an analogue synth costing so little is not cool. Soon, Everybody and their dog is gonna have one and it will be even less cool. Then you'd get someone rocking some boutique modular with a hip name sniggering at you. w00t

BTW those photos have over-saturated colours. It isn't going to be that bright red.
catchpenny
Think it'll pair quite nicely with my nord micro
Panason
dubonaire wrote:


I think the Radikal Technologies synth is pretty cool.


Hell yes! However, just the oscillator part of that synth costs €600 as a module...
electricanada
You can hear the Neutron in action here:

https://soundcloud.com/jd73/new-behringer-neutron-jam

I'd like to hear more modular weirdness and complex evolving drones--if it's possible with this box--but this is a start.
GovernorSilver
catchpenny wrote:
Think it'll pair quite nicely with my nord micro


Was thinking of my bud's Nord Micromodular because of this thread. He painted it like one of Eddie Van Halen's guitars for a "Dork vs. Dweeb" synth dueling concert and left it like that afterwards. Don't have a pic of it, but the paint job was like this guitar's:

nomadjames
I really don't think the red is that bad.
unclebastard
electricanada wrote:
You can hear the Neutron in action here:

https://soundcloud.com/jd73/new-behringer-neutron-jam

I'd like to hear more modular weirdness and complex evolving drones--if it's possible with this box--but this is a start.

Should be, it's got enough patch points, there's plenty to play with, either self-patched or mangled by Euro modules.
alex5556
this beast is a real game-changer. I'm going to sell my mother 32 and grab this one, although I love m32. but it's literally two times cheaper, considering its possibilities. hope it'll well-made and durable.
clipper
dubnspace wrote:
$299!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/behringer-neutron-paraph onic-analog-and-semi-modular-synthesizer#productDetail

I called it too It's peanut butter jelly time!
now we need some proper demos & a release date hmmm.....
Nutritional Zero
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.

Personally I've always wanted to build a secondary rig out of lower-cost options that I can travel with, bang around a bit, and allow other people to play (including friends who like to set pint glasses next to synths). But that said, Volcas are simply too dinky for me to get much use out of. This'll do fine.
electricanada
Will this fit in a euro case? Anyone know?
Chopper
Nutritional Zero wrote:
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.

Personally I've always wanted to build a secondary rig out of lower-cost options that I can travel with, bang around a bit, and allow other people to play (including friends who like to set pint glasses next to synths). But that said, Volcas are simply too dinky for me to get much use out of. This'll do fine.


I agree with many of those points.
I believe they've been busy investigating the eurorack "scene" as well as trying to make a product that will atract beginners in the sense that there is an all-in-one aspect to it that a few of us are after for the reasons you mentioned.
anselmi
Nutritional Zero wrote:
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.


could be like you said but I don't like it because of the RED, I don't like it because of what they do with the RED...

in this very thread there is a pic of a red boomstar 700 that is gorgeous! also I love the look of nord synths (mainly leads) and I own myself a red 101...even the red boutique 01a is really nice...

but this thing is still ugly

I hope the greyscale guy is reading this and making a cool replacement panel
plogbidman
Yes alex5556, this Neutron is a real game-changer. thumbs up
I love my two Phenol Kilpatrick. But i will buy as soon as possible two Neutron too, no problem about that. hihi
Each and every "module" of the Neutron has its ins and its outs. That makes of it in my opinion not only a very good semi-modular but a real small and cleverly designed full modular. For 300$ !!!
That's why it's a game-changer. nanners
dubonaire
anselmi wrote:
Nutritional Zero wrote:
I think the decision to make it red was probably, probably, overall a good decision.

I think everyone would have said "make it Black" but with that particular panel layout it would look just like a Mother-32 to the noobie. They'd go into their local shop, stare at them side-by-side, wonder why one is so much cheaper than the other and choose the more expensive one (ah retail psychology).

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market. I would have chosen a kind of mid-depth charcoal colour for it myself.


could be like you said but I don't like it because of the RED, I don't like it because of what they do with the RED...

in this very thread there is a pic of a red boomstar 700 that is gorgeous! also I love the look of nord synths (mainly leads) and I own myself a red 101...even the red boutique 01a is really nice...

but this thing is still ugly


My thoughts too. I love my red Nord.
lisa
I stand corrected. I expected it to be $499, well below the Arturia equivalent but well more than the Model B. At $299 it is insane value. Sure to make loads of people really snippy about other companies princing. MY ASS IS BLEEDING

In Europe the pricing seems to hover around 350 euros including sales tax. That is proportionate to about $430. Still really cheap but not as devastatingly mind-blowing.
clipper
the videos are coming: Guinness ftw!

Panason
OK, so Behringer is a German company . Why is it cheaper in the US??
Quote:

I don't like the red, but it helps the product stand out on the market.


Yeah, that's crude lowest-common-denominator marketing psychology.
Noisefan
Thanks clipper and DivKid for the video. I'm quite excited for this original semi-modular while the Moog clone left me feeling a bit uneasy.

I know it won't be out until the end of April or later but I'm already planning how it will sit next to my other gear. I don't really understand the urge to take up a gigantic amount of precious space inside a eurorack case when it will easily sit next to or on top of the case?
plogbidman
I will buy directly two Neutrons. One will go instantly into my eurorack modular. The other one will go on my knees, like an analog red cat, hahaha ! hihi
Funky40
Noisefan wrote:
I don't really understand the urge to take up a gigantic amount of precious space inside a eurorack case when it will easily sit next to or on top of the case?

assoon one is building his own (simple) euroracks,
hasn´t it to be a precious space.
it can even turn into the contrary as one can build up the walls with euro wink
starthief
Noisefan wrote:
I don't really understand the urge to take up a gigantic amount of precious space inside a eurorack case when it will easily sit next to or on top of the case?


I don't have a lot of desk space that isn't already reserved for other synths and controllers, so "next to" isn't going to work.

One of my cases is a Mantis, so "on top of" isn't going to work there.

The other is a 12U server rack stand with no sides, 9U of Euro in Z-rails, a 1U switch panel and 1U audio interface. "On top of" isn't going to work there, either.

My two cheapest options are replacing the 12U rack with a 15U rack, or get a short rack cabinet to stick under that rack, and racking the Neutron.
percussion boy
mick wrote:
ignatius wrote:
am i the only one who thinks it's butt ugly? just gonna assume yes because that's usually the way these things go for me.
In this pic it looks totally different though:



Here it looks really good nanners


and maybe even edible... Wild Cherry analog.
Howie_Doodat
whats the over/under on that thing having terrible tuning problems?
numan7
meh where in the heck are you hearing all that from (it hasn't even shipped yet), Howdie-Doodie, (or are you just trying to stir up some fun)?


anyways, i think you might be confusing the behringer neutron with the earlier versions (rev 1 and 2) of the sequential circuits prophet 5 polysynths.

the main differences are:

* neutron is a monosynth (so it's more like the sci pro one). it only needs to stay in tune with itself - though it does sound like some folks will try poly-chaining them via midi as well as modular means.

* neutron uses cem vcos (like prophet 5 rev 3 and pro one) which are more stable than the ssm and discrete vcos used in the earlier prophets (which were more difficult to keep in tune than the later prophet 5 rev 3s).

* neutron has a functionally complete modular patchbay. so while the prophets do feature their modulation matrix that allows vco xmod, pitch envelopes and filter fm - all of that and more can be easily patched on the netutron.

* neutron has a new multi-mode filter design ('moffat') from one of the behringer-midas engineers. afaik, the prophets all used ssm or cem filters.


cheers
sutekina bipu-on
^ Great post. If i totally fall in love with the neutron sound i could see myself buying a couple. More likely I will sample the sounds i like, though.
Panason
Quote:
Cheap stuff = cheap materials inside and out


Not necessarily. It can be cheap because mass manufactured using wage slaves in China.
nomadjames
I thought they only had wage slaves in Japan and the US?
starthief
I sure hope nobody having a go at Behringer for manufacturing in China, or using cheap parts, uses any products from Roland, Yamaha, Apple, Intel, AMD... oh wait hmmm.....

There are very few manufacturers that don't try to minimize their expenses either by using the cheapest available parts, underpaying their labor, exerting pressure on their suppliers if they're big enough, lobbying for looser regulations (and again doing their best to screw over labor), etc.

Until someone manages to document exactly how Behringer is substantially worse for their workers than everyone else is, and/or exhorts people to also avoid other instrumeent manufacturers for the same reasons, it's just empty trash-talk.
chvad
starthief wrote:
I sure hope nobody having a go at Behringer for manufacturing in China, or using cheap parts, uses any products from Roland, Yamaha, Apple, Intel, AMD... oh wait hmmm.....

There are very few manufacturers that don't try to minimize their expenses either by using the cheapest available parts, underpaying their labor, exerting pressure on their suppliers if they're big enough, lobbying for looser regulations (and again doing their best to screw over labor), etc.

Until someone manages to document exactly how Behringer is substantially worse for their workers than everyone else is, and/or exhorts people to also avoid other instrumeent manufacturers for the same reasons, it's just empty trash-talk.


yup.
nomadjames
Amen!
Panason
I was just saying that the hardware quality doesn't have to be bad to make it cheap. Mass manufacturing in China (with wage slaves) is what makes it cheap.

Moog synths and all that fancy modular stuff would (or could) be cheaper if they were made in China as well.
Muzone
Panason wrote:
...Mass manufacturing in China (with wage slaves) is what makes it cheap.


getting dangerously close to politics here, but I'm not sure you fully understand the concept of a 'wage slave' ?
raised eyebrows
starthief wrote:
I sure hope nobody having a go at Behringer for manufacturing in China, or using cheap parts, uses any products from Roland, Yamaha, Apple, Intel, AMD... oh wait hmmm.....

There are very few manufacturers that don't try to minimize their expenses either by using the cheapest available parts, underpaying their labor, exerting pressure on their suppliers if they're big enough, lobbying for looser regulations (and again doing their best to screw over labor), etc.

Until someone manages to document exactly how Behringer is substantially worse for their workers than everyone else is, and/or exhorts people to also avoid other instrumeent manufacturers for the same reasons, it's just empty trash-talk.


i don't think you need to prove that Behringer is uniquely 'evil' or whatever to laud the labor practices of Moog Music; whether or not Behringer runs their factories to the standards practiced by other large corporations, we certainly DO know that Moog is an employee owned company which surely pays its workers significantly more than Behringer does. It honestly drives me nuts when (esp on the other music forum which shall not be named) people act as if this is a totally unimportant fact when drooling over behringer's prices; I don't judge anyone for using whatever tools they can afford (and I own an ipad etc so i'm certainly complicit), but I do think that supporting a company which treats its workers well is something that I am willing to pay a premium for; I do my best to support worker-owned companies and establishments whenever possible despite the fact that I don't make much money. I don't think everyone needs to do that, but I also think it's silly to handwave away such differences in service of some sort of 'greedy moog is getting RICH off of us poor musicians' narrative (which Uli rather sneakily encouraged with a number of his posts on Gearslutz)(oops i named the other forum).

And for what it's worth: Factory workers in Zhongshan protest dangerous working conditions
Quote:
About 80 percent of the workforce had complained of dizziness, headaches, coughing, weakness and blurred vision since the factory relocated to a new facility in September. They said the production lines were sealed, causing them to directly inhale the fumes, which workers suspected were a lingering residue from the factory renovation... Workers bought their own testing devices and discovered that levels of dangerous chemicals like formaldehyde were three to ten times the recommended safe level. Workers then contacted the local work safety department on 28 November, and after an investigation, the government told the workers on 4 December that their suspicions were correct.

Quote:
Eurotec Electronics is owned by Music Group, one of the world’s largest audio equipment manufacturers, making products for global brands like Behringer and Midas.


VS

Moog Music Gives Employees More Control
Quote:
At the Moog synthesizer factory in Asheville, N.C., on Tuesday, Michael Adams, the company’s owner and chief executive, wanted to share some life-changing news with the entire staff.

“I’ve sold half the company,” he told them.

Anxious silence descended among the tight-knit group, many of whom feel a familial loyalty to the business, which has been likened to Willy Wonka’s factory for electronic musicians.

Then Mr. Adams revealed the buyer.

“I sold it to you,” he said, to a relieved wave of whoops, applause and happy tears, according to employees present.

Siobhan Robinson, a production scheduler who started as an office manager 10 years ago, could only talk through her sniffles and giddy laughs. “This provides for my family; this is all we have,” she said.
raised eyebrows
(BTW that said - I'm not suggesting that no one should buy Behringer gear, just that there are valid reasons for people to have questions about the means by which their prices are made so low, and to determine for themselves whether that matters to them. The Neutron looks interesting, FWIW, and I do applaud Behringer for taking some risks and building a new affordable semi-modular)
nomadjames
Muzone wrote:
Panason wrote:
...Mass manufacturing in China (with wage slaves) is what makes it cheap.


getting dangerously close to politics here, but I'm not sure you fully understand the concept of a 'wage slave' ?



Old school Shadowrun slang?
Koekepan
raised eyebrows wrote:
i don't think you need to prove that Behringer is uniquely 'evil' or whatever to laud the labor practices of Moog Music; whether or not Behringer runs their factories to the standards practiced by other large corporations, we certainly DO know that Moog is an employee owned company which surely pays its workers significantly more than Behringer does. It honestly drives me nuts when (esp on the other music forum which shall not be named) people act as if this is a totally unimportant fact when drooling over behringer's prices; I don't judge anyone for using whatever tools they can afford (and I own an ipad etc so i'm certainly complicit), but I do think that supporting a company which treats its workers well is something that I am willing to pay a premium for; I do my best to support worker-owned companies and establishments whenever possible despite the fact that I don't make much money. I don't think everyone needs to do that, but I also think it's silly to handwave away such differences in service of some sort of 'greedy moog is getting RICH off of us poor musicians' narrative (which Uli rather sneakily encouraged with a number of his posts on Gearslutz)(oops i named the other forum).


I take a completely different view.

I don't have the option of going to the store and buying a sack full of good feelings and fluffy bunny moments. All the hard-earned cash I can drag along (which is depressingly little) can only be exchanged for synths, sequencers, mixers, cables and so on.

The proof of this is that once I've made the music, mixed it down, put it on a CD (or whatever) and played it for someone else, the only fluffy bunnies involved come from the music. I can't put HapiFeelz(tm) on a CD because I didn't buy any HapiFeelz(tm) in the first place. It's not on the shelf.

The net result is that if I'm paying more money for a device that will give me an adequate sound (by my ear - the only measure that matters) then I'm engaging in an act of charity. Charity that, quite frankly, I can't afford.

Not one synth in my studio cost me as much as a Sub Phatty, and everything over $200 is not only polyphonic, but multitimbral. The suggestion that I should buy a DFAM for the price of a Blofeld is - well, it's otherworldly. I'm not in the business of spending money as a political statement in favour of a particular model of labour. I spend money to build the very best studio, for the very best music that I possibly can make.

Now, does this mean that I encourage exploitation of the weeping proletariat while champagne-swilling capitalist cannibals laugh? No. I'm quite happy to have all businesses and industries kept to high standards of conduct - but I'm not the police. I'm not the government. I'm not even on some kind of labour board. I'm the poor schlub who gets to peer at what's on the shelf, and count the money in his fist.

So I vote for good public policy, and I spend for efficiency. On that front, Uli can run a clean factory or pay fines and penalties. And I'll buy smart.

If I want something semi-modular, and there isn't a Volca semi-modular, this Neutron might be a good buy.
nomadjames
https://youtu.be/8KsmPo9HW7k

I want this thing so bad.
deb76
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8otT2YQsGCY
I like this it. The work on the envelope reminds me of my old EMS Synthi AKS. I ordered the Model D Behringer and I will order the Neutron. It is a set 700 euros TTC with multiple possibilities ...
MindMachine
kindredlost wrote:
Howie_Doodat wrote:
.. at least you'll get some early oberheim, roland, seq circuits and mem moog sounds out of it.


Or PAIA Proteus. hihi


9V battery not included! Mr. Green

Man you brought back some memories. I used to save every new catalog. Remember their blue Drum voice module? Man it looked sick. I'm sure it sounded like crap (former Phlanger, Gnome, Oz owner).

Glad to see more normalled synths in production, but seems odd for Behringer. Maybe this will turn the music world more modular. Amen.
Rex Coil 7
numan7 wrote:
.... * neutron is a monosynth (so it's more like the sci pro one). it only needs to stay in tune with itself -
This notion is simply factually incorrect.

It would only need to "stay in tune with itself" if it is the sole instrument in a given song or performance.

In a band setting it also must stay in tune with guitars, basses, other synths, organs (such as a vintage Hammond which has no ability to be tuned ... meaning all of the instruments in the band must be able to tune to the Hammond), computers (VSTs), the song as a whole, the singer, as well as the drums ... Yes, good drummers actually know how to tune their drums and frequently do.

So you're going to have to rethink that statement.
MindMachine
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
numan7 wrote:
.... * neutron is a monosynth (so it's more like the sci pro one). it only needs to stay in tune with itself -
This notion is simply factually incorrect.

It would only need to "stay in tune with itself" if it is the sole instrument in a given song or performance.

In a band setting it also must stay in tune with guitars, basses, other synths, organs (such as a vintage Hammond which has no ability to be tuned ... meaning all of the instruments in the band must be able to tune to the Hammond), computers (VSTs), the song as a whole, the singer, as well as the drums ... Yes, good drummers actually know how to tune their drums and frequently do.

So you're going to have to rethink that statement.


Like when I played trombone in a section and the concert director said I was out of tune. I made them tune to me. hihi
gentle_attack
raised eyebrows wrote:
Moog Music Gives Employees More Control
Quote:
At the Moog synthesizer factory in Asheville, N.C., on Tuesday, Michael Adams, the company’s owner and chief executive, wanted to share some life-changing news with the entire staff.

“I’ve sold half the company,” he told them.

Anxious silence descended among the tight-knit group, many of whom feel a familial loyalty to the business, which has been likened to Willy Wonka’s factory for electronic musicians.

Then Mr. Adams revealed the buyer.

“I sold it to you,” he said, to a relieved wave of whoops, applause and happy tears, according to employees present.

Siobhan Robinson, a production scheduler who started as an office manager 10 years ago, could only talk through her sniffles and giddy laughs. “This provides for my family; this is all we have,” she said.


It's pretty cool when owners decide they've made enough and want out, and want the family they created to not only keep their jobs, but continue the company as they see fit...

buuuuut
(1) don't act like this is the norm
(2) even at Moog there were an infinite amount of time over the life of the company before that moment where they DIDN'T do that, and one guy owned it and was calling the shots.
(3) If I spent my money and effort on a company I would say it was absurd to suggest I "owe it" to my company to treat them a certain way (so long as what I did was legal) much less give them part of the company. If you don't like your job, there's infinity jobs out there minus the one you (have/hate) out there.


--end note: I actually do empathize with what you were selling smile and that's why mass produced Chinese shit never or extremely rarely hits cult status, and hand made Moogerfoogers are worth 95% of their MSRP after years in service. It's just unfair to knock kids working 2 jobs who want a Boog D because there's a LE Moog D thats 12x as expensive.
thevegasnerve
Almost all of us have no idea of the culture or working environment of these firms. We are speculating based on a few articles etc.. I think it’s likely Moog provides a better workplace, but it’s all relative. And even fewer have any concept of running a business. What we do know is that Moog makes a very nice product, I love my whole fooger collection and the Mother32s are a joy to play. The foogers will outlast me I suspect. I do think the Neutron is the most interesting of all Behringers products. Their history is spotty but may be improving.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of the bits and pieces of all those cottage industry eurorack modules y'all love so much are made in China. All the hardware is made in China. The PCBs are made in China. All the knobs and panel bits and pieces are made in China (or Taiwan). All of the electronic components are made in China (except some of the ICs, which are made in Malaysia or the Philippines). (OK, the panels are typically made in Ohio.)

Unless you live off the grid in a treehouse in the forest, I would bet that 90% of everything you own is made, partially or wholly, in China. So why get all self-righteous about Behringer? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing demographic on the planet -- it turns out that the average Chinese person wants a bit of affluence, just like the average Westerner -- so why is this bad?
Funky40
gentle_attack wrote:


It's pretty cool when owners decide they've made enough and want out, and want the family they created to not only keep their jobs, but continue the company as they see fit...

ha, this one looks 180° the other way around to me.
honestly, it looks not good. More like: the rich bail out while they can and aslong they can find a stupid one...........
numan7
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
[t would only need to "stay in tune with itself" if it is the sole instrument in a given song or performance.

In a band setting it also must stay in tune with guitars, basses, other synths, organs (such as a vintage Hammond which has no ability to be tuned ... meaning all of the instruments in the band must be able to tune to the Hammond), computers (VSTs), the song as a whole, the singer, as well as the drums ... Yes, good drummers actually know how to tune their drums and frequently do..


when a mono-synth "stays in tune with itself", this means that its pitch is stable over time. and since it is a mono-synth, its midi and frequency cv only control one voice.

(so you don't need to worry about voices going out of tune with respect to master pitch as on a polysynth.)

playing in band settings, or whatever, then is dead simple. just use the pitch controls on the mono-synth to transpose to whatever key the band is playing in.

(so the statement was factually correct. and i don't need to re-think anything.)


cheers
Panason
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:


Unless you live off the grid in a treehouse in the forest, I would bet that 90% of everything you own is made, partially or wholly, in China. So why get all self-righteous about Behringer? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing demographic on the planet -- it turns out that the average Chinese person wants a bit of affluence, just like the average Westerner -- so why is this bad?


Not being self-righteous but here's some food for thought... the info about Chinese manufacturing is later in the video. Behringer are just one of many (peanuts compared to the likes of Samsung and Apple) and we're all implicated... I haven't researched the matter to know if everything there is factually correct so I won't be able to discuss this video.



Anyway... to get back to the topic seriously, i just don't get it is there any info on the MIDI implementation? Are any of the synth's parameters controllable with MIDI CCs?
starthief
Gaz Williams did a livestream with it. He doesn't have the modular mindset and wasn't quite sure about some of the features (like VCA bias) but still, I found this video useful. Good sound quality and a nice clear listen to various parts of the synth in near-isolation.



Pretty great oscillators, and morphing between shapes is a nice touch. Good filter. Much less whiney BBD than on the previous version that DivKid and some others were sent -- I wonder if they slapped a lowpass on it as well as doubling the stages.

I'd been having second thoughts about getting one unless I could try it myself, but I'm back in the yes camp.
dubonaire
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of the bits and pieces of all those cottage industry eurorack modules y'all love so much are made in China. All the hardware is made in China. The PCBs are made in China. All the knobs and panel bits and pieces are made in China (or Taiwan). All of the electronic components are made in China (except some of the ICs, which are made in Malaysia or the Philippines). (OK, the panels are typically made in Ohio.)

Unless you live off the grid in a treehouse in the forest, I would bet that 90% of everything you own is made, partially or wholly, in China. So why get all self-righteous about Behringer? The Chinese middle class is the fastest growing demographic on the planet -- it turns out that the average Chinese person wants a bit of affluence, just like the average Westerner -- so why is this bad?


I agree with your general position and it's a point that should be made, but I think it's more complex than that. It's a bit like the one true scotsman fallacy. Many of your choices are comprised so don't make any ethical choices or you are a hypocrite. If we took that approach our morals and ethics would collapse.

As consumers we can influence by making obvious choices. It's obvious not to wear baby fur seal or eat shark fin soup and they are easy choices to make. For some it might be easy to not buy Behringer because there is a lot of information on its manufacturing complexes and they can choose to buy other equipment. Given Behringer's volume, consumer choices may not influence the company's behaviour but talking about it on public forums is healthy.

It turns out the average Chinese person wants fair, safe and healthy working conditions as well. That's part and parcel of most westerners' affluence. And that's why Behringer's workers went on strike late last year. Actually the biggest threat to profiting from cheap Chinese factory labour is the increasing sophistication and expectations of the workers themselves.

From what I've read about Berhinger management culture it's everything you rail against. One of the differences with Behringer, regardless of any ethical issues, is there is a risk it will drive a race to the bottom, a market in which only companies with its economies of scale can survive. I think that happened before in this industry, and it resulted in a largely unremarkable decade or two of mediocre electronic musical instruments.
D Rock
I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Going to be my starting point for modular with a behringer model D. Plan to get a few VCAs and wasp filter to start. Guinness ftw!
lilakmonoke
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".

schippmann right now charges 800 euro for a single filter which of course is excellent but this seems to be a very unhealthy relationship between cost and function. there is nothing wrong with nerds making lot of $$ with gizmos but if behringer gets into it there is at least an alternative. plus the model D is proof that super high quality analog audio COULD be built cheaply and all eurorack addicts are being milked badly.
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".

schippmann right now charges 800 euro for a single filter which of course is excellent but this seems to be a very unhealthy relationship between cost and function. there is nothing wrong with nerds making lot of $$ with gizmos but if behringer gets into it there is at least an alternative. plus the model D is proof that super high quality analog audio COULD be built cheaply and all eurorack addicts are being milked badly.


I don't think you can compare Doepfer to Behringer. Dieter Doepfer still provides the company's tech support.

Schippmann filters were expensive before Schippmann entered eurorack. No one has to buy a Schippmann filter. And there already are cheap alternatives to Schippmann, like Doepfer, as you point out.

Schippmann filters were expensive before Schippmann entered eurorack. No one has to buy a Schippmann filter.

The reason the model D is cheap is because of economies of scale. It doesn't mean small manufacturers can make them that cheaply. It's a bulk retail financial model. Large numbers X small margins, and vertically integrated supply chain (including the voice chips), versus low numbers X larger margins. I'm happy for those small manufacturers to make a profit. I certainly wouldn't work for free.
Panason
lilakmonoke wrote:
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".


I'm inclined to agree. I believe these "boutique" (I can't stand that term) manufacturers are charging a "hip factor" premium.... with (IMO ridiculously pretentious) names like "Ornament & Crime", "Iteritas", "Cocoquantus" etc there is clearly a particular target market for these things and it has to do with a sort of next level analog trendiness. Many people believe that the more money they throw at (relatively) obscure gear the better their music will be.. And so we have people asking things like "how can I make a fat bass sound with my modular" - apparently ignoring the fact that you can make humongously obese bass with a DX7 (sine waves!) that you would never get with analogue systems.
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
id like to remind you all that the original idea of eurorack by dieter doepfer was super affordable analog for everybody! that has turned into a nerd economy "here let me show you my super nerdy gizmo and while im at it let me charge you as much as possible for it".


I'm inclined to agree. I believe these "boutique" (I can't stand that term) manufacturers are charging a "hip factor" premium.... with (IMO ridiculously pretentious) names like "Ornament & Crime", "Iteritas", "Cocoquantus" etc there is clearly a particular target market for these things and it has to do with a sort of next level analog trendiness. Many people believe that the more money they throw at (relatively) obscure gear the better their music will be.. And so we have people asking things like "how can I make a fat bass sound with my modular" - apparently ignoring the fact that you can make humongously obese bass with a DX7 (sine waves!) that you would never get with analogue systems.


I like how you name a bunch of digital modules as next level analog trendiness. At least know what you are talking about if you are going to go on a rant. No one is forcing you to buy these modules, why get so upset, or do you just want to you kids get off my lawn ? If so take it to Gearslutz.
lilakmonoke
when i got into modular you could easily build a decent system with 2k with used modules. now that number is at least 2-3x of that? back then makers like FoH or WMD made a point in producing modules that were interesting AND cheap, now everybody seems to be testing how much you can push the price with the next version of the same thing.

i got out of it after i calculated how much money i sunk into the modular and how much i actually got out of it especially compared to my synths. i slapped myself a few times ;-) and that was the end of it. as a fellow wiggler once posted "10k for a thousand dogfart sounds?!"

economy of scale is a myth, everybody who would buy a model D would also buy a cwejman s1 if it was affordable. ulli behringer WANTS to build affordable high quality stuff and so he can while schippmann wants to build the most expensive filter on the planet. its your choice who you want to support, thats true.

im definitely back into modular as soon as behringer comes up with high quality modules under 100$ ... and they will i predict.
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
when i got into modular you could easily build a decent system with 2k with used modules. now that number is at least 2-3x of that? back then makers like FoH or WMD made a point in producing modules that were interesting AND cheap, now everybody seems to be testing how much you can push the price with the next version of the same thing.

i got out of it after i calculated how much money i sunk into the modular and how much i actually got out of it especially compared to my synths. i slapped myself a few times ;-) and that was the end of it. as a fellow wiggler once posted "10k for a thousand dogfart sounds?!"

economy of scale is a myth, everybody who would buy a model D would also buy a cwejman s1 if it was affordable. ulli behringer WANTS to build affordable high quality stuff and so he can while schippmann wants to build the most expensive filter on the planet. its your choice who you want to support, thats true.

im definitely back into modular as soon as behringer comes up with high quality modules under 100$ ... and they will i predict.


Economy of scale is not a myth. That's nonsense.

I don't know what exactly is your point. I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro, just like golfers don't when they buy golf club memberships or skiers don't when they book ski trips. You can buy a usable system for 2k now. You can make music with a DAW and nothing else if you want to save money. That's obviously not the point. I don't know why you ever thought this was a poor man's past time. I never did.
lilakmonoke
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.

so thats exactly why im really excited about behringer being in the mix now.
notmiserlouagain
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.

so thats exactly why im really excited about behringer being in the mix now.


Yes, I can relate to that, sold everything off, now it´s only diy my modules, and that is pure happiness for me, also, I do much better (interesting, surprising, creative) music with a handful of modules than with my late big modular...
/end ot rambling
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.


Well I don't disagree with that. Me, I envy anyone who is able to live in Berlin and make music for a living.
Panason
Panason
dubonaire wrote:

I like how you name a bunch of digital modules as next level analog trendiness. At least know what you are talking about if you are going to go on a rant. No one is forcing you to buy these modules, why get so upset, or do you just want to you kids get off my lawn ? If so take it to Gearslutz.


I don't really care if they're analogue or digital.. they're modules for largely analogue systems.

I think you're confused. Nobody is "ranting" or "so upset". As far as I can see you're not a moderator, so click on that "Ignore" button rather than try to tell me where to post. This is the "General Gear" subforum. Or you can always switch off the computer and go outside if you think someone's opinion on the internet regarding the modular synthesizer market is upsetting.
Muzone
Panason wrote:


....I think you're confused. Nobody is "ranting" or "so upset".


You'll soon learn, "this place" likes to see itself a some kind of "Eurorack commune" and anyone who breaks the illusion gets told to "go to gearslutz" even though many here also have GS logins.

Just chuckle at their rich-boy narcissism and go make some tunes with downmarket slave labour gear It's peanut butter jelly time!
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
dubonaire wrote:

I like how you name a bunch of digital modules as next level analog trendiness. At least know what you are talking about if you are going to go on a rant. No one is forcing you to buy these modules, why get so upset, or do you just want to you kids get off my lawn ? If so take it to Gearslutz.


I don't really care if they're analogue or digital.. they're modules for largely analogue systems.

I think you're confused. Nobody is "ranting" or "so upset". As far as I can see you're not a moderator, so click on that "Ignore" button rather than try to tell me where to post. This is the "General Gear" subforum. Or you can always switch off the computer and go outside if you think someone's opinion on the internet regarding the modular synthesizer market is upsetting.


It doesn't upset me, I just think it's a banal and pointless rant. It's entirely possible to have an all digital system these days so I'd say you are the one who is confused. Noise Engineering has been around for quite a while and is not really pandering to this hipster crowd you imagine as far as I can tell. So what if he gives his modules silly names. It has nothing to do with anything really.
Kopter
Muzone wrote:
downmarket slave labour gear


Stealing that name for my fictitious endeavor as a manufacturer of affordable modular synthesizers.
dubonaire
Muzone wrote:
You'll soon learn, "this place" likes to see itself a some kind of "Eurorack commune" and anyone who breaks the illusion gets told to "go to gearslutz" even though many here also have GS logins.

Just chuckle at their rich-boy narcissism and go make some tunes with downmarket slave labour gear It's peanut butter jelly time!


thumbs up I'm just here lying in a bath of rose petals throwing analogue modules into the bin, counting my trust fund interest, like all of us modular owners, busy practising champagne socialism. You got me pegged, clever man.
starthief
Panason wrote:
I believe these "boutique" (I can't stand that term) manufacturers are charging a "hip factor" premium.... with (IMO ridiculously pretentious) names like "Ornament & Crime", "Iteritas", "Cocoquantus" etc there is clearly a particular target market for these things and it has to do with a sort of next level analog trendiness. Many people believe that the more money they throw at (relatively) obscure gear the better their music will be.. And so we have people asking things like "how can I make a fat bass sound with my modular" - apparently ignoring the fact that you can make humongously obese bass with a DX7 (sine waves!) that you would never get with analogue systems.


You're equating "funny names", elitism, analog, and noobs. None of those have anything to do with each other.

Also, Ornament & Crime is open source hardware. There are people who sell PCBs from the open source specs. Somebody else designed a smaller version with a different layout. A few people make panels. A few people will assemble them for you. Other people came along and wrote improved firmware for it that became the de facto standard. You're free to build, hack, and rewrite all of that yourself without paying anybody. Nobody's overcharging for any of that.

Also I'm highly amused that you think "fat bass" can't be done in analog (with, like, one cheap oscillator...)
Muzone
dubonaire wrote:
....... You got me pegged, clever man.



fish in a barrel innit.......
Panason
Hmm ok. I must have typed "analog cannot do fat bass" somewhere without realising. I'm glad you're highly amused though!

I do think elitism, analog and noobs are very much related these days. As I said, it seems to me there are a lot of people out there who think that spending large sums on modulars (or vintage synths) will give them an edge and that is a classic noob mistake.

I'm not saying that people are stupid for spending their money on whatever they want to, by the way. Just that it's unnecessary for making "fat bass" or decent and original music. I think it's more about the kicks of patching things with cables and tinkering with electronics - doesn't do much for me. I'd pay double for the Neutron if it had a basic digital mod matrix and patch memories...

And "Ornament & Crime" sounds pretentious however much it costs, sorry!
starthief
Eh. I thought module names were weird when I first got into it, and agree they can be silly. But they're a lot more memorable than model numbers.

I own 5 Doepfer modules and one Ladik, and I'm not sure I could say what they were called if I didn't check my notes or look them up -- but I can name the other 37 modules I have with no problem. I know Intellijel's thru-zero triangle core VCO is the Rubicon, but Doepfer's two are "A-some number-some number" just like everything else they have.
Panason
Yeah I get that. I can dig names like Rubicon, and Neutron for that matter ... I think "Neuron" would have been cooler tho.

"Maths" and "Braids" have some relevance and point to what the modules actually do.

But "Cocoquantus" ? f*** off! meh
thevegasnerve
Its a fact that B- has an advantage with producing things using economies of scale/vertical integration as mentioned (vs smaller synth companies, minus Roland/Korg possibly). They can do it cheaper, that's not real debatable. Now that they are using that to provide lower prices is not a bad thing by itself. But it doesn't take much of a leap to see that placing control in the hands of few is a slippery slope, which can be a concern if we make our choices only by just the best monetary deal available. That's fine if you want to say its each individual's choice, but actually our lives our interconnected and our decisions affect others.

Some of us that have been around quite awhile have seen how these things play out. Not all of us are wealthy or have big modular setups. Nothing to do with elitism, although that does like to creep into these types of hobbies. A lot of us are just musicians that love talking about music, some of us like philosophy even more.

And if you ever own a company or have the freedom to make decisions, part of the "fun" is having the freedom to do things the way you want, including naming your products whatever you want. That said, I dig the Neutron from what I see and respect that B- has made a really cool product with nice features and a fair price (given their advantages).
franktropez
Panason wrote:
Yeah I get that. I can dig names like Rubicon, and Neutron for that matter ... I think "Neuron" would have been cooler tho.

"Maths" and "Braids" have some relevance and point to what the modules actually do.

But "Cocoquantus" ? f*** off! meh


Few things are as self indulgent, wanky, pretentious and unnecessary* as making (electronic) music and you're complaining about some of the names of the devices used in this feast of decadence?

Music is a very serious artform so there should be a lot of room for silliness to keep things fresh.

* as well as possibly totally life changing, fun and important.
dubonaire
Panason wrote:
I do think elitism, analog and noobs are very much related these days. As I said, it seems to me there are a lot of people out there who think that spending large sums on modulars (or vintage synths) will give them an edge and that is a classic noob mistake.

I'm not saying that people are stupid for spending their money on whatever they want to, by the way. Just that it's unnecessary for making "fat bass" or decent and original music. I think it's more about the kicks of patching things with cables and tinkering with electronics - doesn't do much for me. I'd pay double for the Neutron if it had a basic digital mod matrix and patch memories...

And "Ornament & Crime" sounds pretentious however much it costs, sorry!


I don't actually know how much elitism there is in this particular zone because I live in a country where I am just about the only modular owner. There does seem to be a significant number of noobs getting into electronic music of all types at the moment. I'm on a number of Roland Facebook groups and the number of newbie questions there is astounding.

As for euro, I don't think all these noobs are spending large sums on modulars anyway. Most of the noob posts asking for advice on their first modular are for systems which are almost too small. They might be making a mistake in getting into modular without much knowledge, they might be going about it the expensive way, but in the end it's a great way to learn synthesis, and if they sell the thing maybe they've lost 20% of their investment. There are worse things to spend your money on.

And you don't see many Noise Engineering modules in noob systems. But you almost always see Maths and Clouds. So I'm not sure the names of modules are having much of an influence. Loquelic Iteritas is not that much different to Euphonium or Fender Stratocaster anyway. Ornament & Crime is a cool name, and the irony in this discussion is it's the name of an essay criticising ornament in useful objects.

It seems to me there isn't a great deal of the kind of elitism you see around classical music for example. There is a bit of fashion and hipsterness in this, but there always was in music I guess. As far as I know buying most kinds of musical instruments is an expensive decision.

I have quite a few expensive modules in my system along with cheaper Doepfer systems. It's a relatively expensive rack. No one even sees my system except on the rare occasion I make a video I share. There are many more users like me than users who show off their systems.

There is no subtext of this discussion being about wanting to keep euro in some kind of 'rich-boy' elitist realm, as much as Muzone would like to think that. The discussion is genuinely about people not liking Berhinger's business model and the risks of low cost mass production leading to cost-cutting or forcing out small businesses that have developed due to the boom in eurorack.
Chopper
dubonaire wrote:


There is no subtext of this discussion being about wanting to keep euro in some kind of 'rich-boy' elitist realm, as much as Muzone would like to think that. The discussion is genuinely about people not liking Berhinger's business model and the risks of low cost mass production leading to cost-cutting or forcing out small businesses that have developed due to the boom in eurorack.


Well, the original discussion was about our thoughts on the Neutron. But obviously, anything Berhinger-related can drag Muffwigglers into Gearslutz territories...
On that note, talking about ethic while we spend money in expensive modules yet some people are currently dying outside in the cold is rather unhealthy....
They won't put anyone out of business... did Pizza Hut put the small pizzerias out of business? Different crowds... there is overlaps,but different crowds noneless. At least now if someone wants to dable into patching and asks for cheap entry, we have something else than microbrute as an answer...

Edit: dubonaire, reading your well-thoughts posts and replies is always an interesting moment for me...
dubonaire
Chopper wrote:
dubonaire wrote:


There is no subtext of this discussion being about wanting to keep euro in some kind of 'rich-boy' elitist realm, as much as Muzone would like to think that. The discussion is genuinely about people not liking Berhinger's business model and the risks of low cost mass production leading to cost-cutting or forcing out small businesses that have developed due to the boom in eurorack.


Well, the original discussion was about our thoughts on the Neutron. But obviously, anything Berhinger-related can drag Muffwigglers into Gearslutz territories...
On that note, talking about ethic while we spend money in expensive modules yet some people are currently dying outside in the cold is rather unhealthy....
They won't put anyone out of business... did Pizza Hut put the small pizzerias out of business? Different crowds... there is overlaps,but different crowds noneless. At least now if someone wants to dable into patching and asks for cheap entry, we have something else than microbrute as an answer...

Edit: dubonaire, reading your well-thoughts posts and replies is always an interesting moment for me...


I'm not actually anti-Berhinger, I just think the dialogue is worth having.

I work in developing countries and I'm amongst extremely poor people all the time as well as Chinese factory workers as it happens. I don't think the fact of poverty makes talking about expensive items unhealthy. Pretending there isn't inequality and doing absolutely nothing about it is arguably unhealthy, but that's a complex ethical dilemma and I'm not going to judge other people's life choices in that context.

I don't agree that low-cost low-margin high-volume production doesn't crowd out small business, there is plenty of evidence that it does. The cost of pizza making is not a lot different for a franchisee or for a local pizzeria, the difference there is marketing, and some margins on purchase of raw materials. But for manufactured electronics the story is very different. The only thing left for small business is to differentiate their product lines, which many module makers try to do with graphics and module names, or unique features.
Chopper
Yeah, i wasn't pointing at you when i mentionned the anti-behringer brigade. I am in line with your view on this...
My point when mentionning pizzas wasn't much about the whole marketing side of things ( again, i agree with you on that), what i mean is that there always gonna be more dicerning people (what some refer as "elitists") who enjoy the fact that they can interract on a human level with the people they buy stuff from... behringer didn't kill the boutique pedals market after all...

Edit: i am waiting for the shitstorm hitting the fan if/when they'll do a maths clone hihi
Howie_Doodat
pretty soon a bunch of 15 year olds are gonna be making better music and sounds on 4 behringers that cost about a thousand bucks total, than all the old heads in the show-off-your-studio threads that have spent half a fortune and lifetime selecting, rejecting and collecting.
dubonaire
Chopper wrote:
behringer didn't kill the boutique pedals market after all...

Edit: i am waiting for the shitstorm hitting the fan if/when they'll do a maths clone hihi


Good point.

Maths is nine parts clone anyway. Isn't the new Blue Lantern eye storm a Maths clone of sorts?
dubonaire
Howie_Doodat wrote:
pretty soon a bunch of 15 year olds are gonna be making better music and sounds on 4 behringers that cost about a thousand bucks total, than all the old heads in the show-off-your-studio threads that have spent half a fortune and lifetime selecting, rejecting and collecting.


I think that has already happened multiple times over - most recently 80s with reject Roland gear, 2000s with ITB. Nothing new about that.

Not everyone buys musical instruments to be a star you know.
WaveRider
lilakmonoke wrote:
Quote:
I don't think people are rocking Internal Rate of Return financial models when they buy euro


exactly! i live in berlin i know enough serious producers who were financially flatlined after they got into addictive modular optimizing. my point is that needs to stop because its a mental diease like all consumerism and it doesnt lead to good music which is what this was all about in the first place.

so thats exactly why im really excited about behringer being in the mix now.


great points, when I built my modular they were not many analog synths available, today I would not do it considering what you can buy now....

...but I still enjoy my 10k fart machine smile I guess we all went mad at some point, starved from analog hihi ...sometimes I fear that it will loose all resale value seriously, i just don't get it
lilakmonoke
"ornament and crime" btw. is an essay and lecture by modernist architect Adolf Loos that criticizes ornament in useful objects.

there is something to be said for building your own modular. first of all its probably the most effective anticonsumerism therapy, second you most likely end up with your own unique sound.

my favourite ambient album "treehut vision - guenter schlienz" is done by a guy who built his own system from scratch, it has a really unique sound, mostly based on sine oscillators.

http://www.guenterschlienz.de/details%20suitcase%201.html

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 album=2819078563 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]

Paradigm X
lilakmonoke wrote:
my favourite ambient album "treehut vision - guenter schlienz" is done by a guy who built his own system from scratch, it has a really unique sound, mostly based on sine oscillators.

http://www.guenterschlienz.de/details%20suitcase%201.html

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 album=2819078563 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]



really nice thanks This is fun!
dubonaire
lilakmonoke wrote:
"ornament and crime" btw. is an essay and lecture by modernist architect Adolf Loos that criticizes ornament in useful objects.


There really is nothing less rewarding than having conversations with people who don't even make the effort to listen.

dubonaire wrote:
Ornament & Crime is a cool name, and the irony in this discussion is it's the name of an essay criticising ornament in useful objects.
Mikro93
There are two things that I can't find an answer for:

What is roughly the range of the LFO?

Is there a V/Oct out, to get some pitch CV from MIDI input?

Cheers
zeit
lilakmonoke wrote:

my favourite ambient album "treehut vision - guenter schlienz" is done by a guy who built his own system from scratch, it has a really unique sound, mostly based on sine oscillators.


Yes! I really like his music too. I have Contemplation and The Norman Tapes and love them both. I always look out for what he's doing next.
sutekina bipu-on
This is going to come out before GC delivers my boog! d'oh!
lilakmonoke
keep the BOOG, its one big fuzzy sweetspot.
dubnspace
best demo yet
Panason
Yes! applause
Panason
One hour of Neutron tweaking, in case you're still not GASing



and all that with minimal patching.

This thing is massive AND sweet. Mother 32 , goodbye...

The problem is that everyone will have one! Rockin' Banana!
lilakmonoke
middle aged guy twisting random knobs for an hour on unknown synth without showing any emotional reaction = SYNTHGURU ... its the age of internet marketing but a monkey would have had probably similar results ;-)

i think it sounds good too but the filter is generic. something like this should sound like an experimental pro one or imagine it with the dreadbox erebus filter! its a bit like the deepmind, its all there but nothing is special. it was designed by the same team so that makes sense.

the model D is special all the way so that is proof special doable at the same price ...
unclebastard
dubnspace wrote:
best demo yet

SOLD. My wallet is going to take a big hit pretty soon. And I'm OK with that Rockin' Banana!
Panason
Yeah, never heard of the "Synth Guru" and the video is a bit preposterous (as if this random tweaking is some kind of performance!) but it gives a good idea of what can be done.

So the Boog doesn't sound "generic" but this does? OK....
lilakmonoke
Quote:
So the Boog doesn't sound "generic" but this does?


thats just what im hearing ... or it could be the oscillators, discrete vs. CEM chip? i dont know but with the neutron there is nothing thats strikes me emotionally in the sound while the model d does this all the time. trust your own ears.
WaveRider
I like this synth a lot but I find the sound of the filter not that great, but it does great arps and such in mid to high frequencies.

The patch points and the BBD are so cool.

if I did not have a modular I wold get it for sure.

...anyway bring them on! SlayerBadger! there is going to be one for me in the lot, maybe modelD or what is gonna come later
D Rock
BBD is cool for sure. I am on the fence but will probably end up with one just because it is so cheap and I for 300 dollars just a midi to CV with two OSCs is worth it.
GNSDG
This is just an amazing feature set, VCOs and BBD sound really cool, and the patch points actually make sense for what I would do with it.

If you don't like the filter just patch something else in. You get VCO outs and a VCA in. Unless the appeal of it for you is being self-contained... you're still way ahead price wise.
ugokcen
Yeah, the price is crazy. I don’t “need” a full voice but I might still get it for the oscillators. It’s not like you have dual oscillator modules floating around at $300!
mick
Chopper
When in the right hands....
Great sound from such a cheap rig there...
Panason
Still no sign of the Neutron at Thomann. When is it supposed to come out?
numan7
Panason wrote:
Still no sign of the Neutron at Thomann. When is it supposed to come out?


april 2018 (so next month) is what i have read.



cheers
Panason
Thanks, hopefully that's long enough for me to realize I don't really need this and don't even have the space for it. help
sutekina bipu-on
My sales rep at guitar center let me preorder one hyper RIP my credit card! lol
Panason
Why oh why.... pre-ordering is bad. It just encourages companies to release unfinished products....as seen time and time again.

Don't do it! d'oh!
SynthBaron
Panason wrote:
Why oh why.... pre-ordering is bad. It just encourages companies to release unfinished products....as seen time and time again.


GC has already ordered them, they're just selling the stock they have on the way.

What companies release finished products? Everyone releases tweaks. The Minimoog Voyager was broken in several ways when it first came out and you had to pay to get an upgrade to fix their mistakes, for example. The first production units of Behringer Model D's had single turn trim pots, later ones have multiturn.

Avoid buying the first batch of anything, lol...
sutekina bipu-on





GNSDG
Someone please make a panel for this now.
Numanoid92
I have mixed feelings.. and it's NOT because it's a Behringer product at all.. I prefer if Behringer concentrate on producing original stuff like the Neuron than the D ripoff or whatever.. aaaaaanyway...
Maybe because i'm growing up or whatever but i'm getting tired of overaggressive sounds.. I'm not saying it's bad, maybe too much in your face for me at the moment... I loved the og Minibrute and didn't find it too edgy, this for me is too much. But i like the fact that it's an original design with an interesting filter and a very lo-fi delay. It's a thumbs up for me.
westcoastsynthdude
The Neutron certainly has a distinctive sound but the color scheme is a bit much... for the price though, I guess we can't really complain.

I'm interested to get into modular synthesis so this could be the perfect starting point since it won't break the bank and has semi-modular capabilities.
sutekina bipu-on
westcoastsynthdude wrote:
The Neutron certainly has a distinctive sound but the color scheme is a bit much... for the price though, I guess we can't really complain.

I'm interested to get into modular synthesis so this could be the perfect starting point since it won't break the bank and has semi-modular capabilities.


I like the red a lot, but there are enough people who have expressed disdain with it, there will be a black-out kit available within no time of the neutron being released to the streets.
Panason
I really like the artwork on the front panel and the red will go nicely with my Nord and Virus b.

Holy shit, it sounds good. I'll take this over the MS20 anytime... Can't wait to hook it up to the TT 303!
oldgearguy
Numanoid92 wrote:
I have mixed feelings.. and it's NOT because it's a Behringer product at all.. I prefer if Behringer concentrate on producing original stuff like the Neuron than the D ripoff or whatever.. aaaaaanyway...
Maybe because i'm growing up or whatever but i'm getting tired of overaggressive sounds.. I'm not saying it's bad, maybe too much in your face for me at the moment... I loved the og Minibrute and didn't find it too edgy, this for me is too much. But i like the fact that it's an original design with an interesting filter and a very lo-fi delay. It's a thumbs up for me.


The parts where Nick was using a sine or triangle and backed off the drive seemed pretty smooth to me. In fact, what was the most impressive was the wide range of good sounds he was getting out of it. Seems like the sweet spot is pretty wide on this thing.
Panason
Nick is awesome...

You can see that he's impressed! Looking forward to see what can be done with the sine waves... Love that the LFO can sync to MIDI clock too.

I think I'm sold! Just got to find a space for it help
anselmi
westcoastsynthdude wrote:
the color scheme is a bit much... for the price though, I guess we can't really complain.


GNSDG wrote:
Someone please make a panel for this now.


I contacted Grayscale about a replacement panel for the Neutron and this was the response:

Grayscale wrote:
Hey, someone else contacted me about that today. Unfortunately I'd have to sell the panel for about $80-100, and since the unit is only $300 it would seem quite expensive. I'm also taking a break from panels for a while, tons of new modules in the queue. Thanks for asking though. I'll let you know if things change.
Numanoid92
oldgearguy wrote:
Numanoid92 wrote:
I have mixed feelings.. and it's NOT because it's a Behringer product at all.. I prefer if Behringer concentrate on producing original stuff like the Neuron than the D ripoff or whatever.. aaaaaanyway...
Maybe because i'm growing up or whatever but i'm getting tired of overaggressive sounds.. I'm not saying it's bad, maybe too much in your face for me at the moment... I loved the og Minibrute and didn't find it too edgy, this for me is too much. But i like the fact that it's an original design with an interesting filter and a very lo-fi delay. It's a thumbs up for me.


The parts where Nick was using a sine or triangle and backed off the drive seemed pretty smooth to me. In fact, what was the most impressive was the wide range of good sounds he was getting out of it. Seems like the sweet spot is pretty wide on this thing.


Yeah there were some cool sounds but i don't know... lately i've been really bored with analog synths (apart from a few really amazing synths).
Panason
How about contacting Uli directly about alternative colour schemes? Twitter or facebook or something. Personally I wouldn't mind a sky blue version.
oldgearguy
Panason wrote:
How about contacting Uli directly about alternative colour schemes? Twitter or facebook or something. Personally I wouldn't mind a sky blue version.


People did. His response was - red only.
Panason
It's gonna have to be a skin job then.

styleflip.com might do it.
sutekina bipu-on
Panason wrote:
It's gonna have to be a skin job then.

styleflip.com might do it.


I didn't look too hard but i definitely remember, in the gearslutz thread, someone said they'd start making a black skin for it as soon as they got theirs in. Whether they follow thru with it is anyone's guess.

icarbons might do it, but they won't make anything new unless it gets enough requests.
Panason
I'd go for white actually. I think part of the charm of the Oberheim SEM is the white and black colour scheme. Without wood sides! All metal! I want technology, not furniture! lol

Either way I'm all for the Neutron. The Sonic State review did it for me.
tehyar
Panason wrote:
The Sonic State review did it for me.


Me too! I was all set to wait it out and see how supply was, check out reviews and such, and then...

I started watching Nick's review. I ended up hitting pause and pre-ordering it before he was even done with the oscillator section. w00t
lisa
Beefy sound! Fantastic value, it seems. screaming goo yo
Panason
I just love seeing Nick's face when he gets a sizzling fat sound going on. That guy personifies all that is good about the UK music tech geekdom.
Panason
wow . even the YouTube comments which are usually a cesspool of negativity are overwhelmingly positive!
There is only one muppet that says "not as good as vintage" which must be a first.

here's a selection:
Quote:

The fundamental is strong with this one

Quote:

This synth must be from Manchester, as it has stolen 300 quid from my wallet.


Quote:
I love it! Bass bass and more bass is my general music theory....cant wait! Thanks Nick!

Quote:

Doofs Of Hazard

Quote:


What a wonderful time to be alive
anselmi
Panason wrote:
I just love seeing Nick's face when he gets a sizzling fat sound going on. That guy personifies all that is good about the UK music tech geekdom.


my favorite reviewer by far...his videos got perfect timing, he seems very honest and do the right balance between geek stuff and sound/music

very solid contents, keeps my attention for the whole video and it´s also fun to view
mick
Can't wait to have this in my hands!

And I'm sure Behringer will be releasing Eurorack stuff soon too. Would love to see some cheap cases from them. And now they have all the clones going, then can make a nice line of cheap VCO's and filters too
Panason
The biggest shop in my area has the Model D on display (but not in stock right now) .. they still could not tell me when the Neutron would be arriving.... Guinness ftw!
Bane
Can anyone maybe provide files for cutting the front panel? Or just take out the panel from the unit and "scan" it? thanks
Panason
I don't think anyone actually has one yet apart from a few reviewers?
synth4ever
Definitely keeping my eye on this one, love the patch bay and the fact it has a different filter sound compared to many other synths. Any ETA on actual release date yet?
racooniac
i saw here that the Behringer Neutrons can now be preordered.
Panason
Quote:
This should be called the Motherfucker 56


razz
paperCUT
The talking filter sound at around 16 mins is really stunning, extremely clean sounding. https://youtu.be/xfD8RmALHwQ?t=957
Panason
This may well be the first thing I ever pre-order as I can see it actually selling out.
tdutz
Bad news, folks. I was called by a rep at Sweetwater today about my preorder status on the Neutron and he said the expected ship date is now "sometime in late fall".

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif
Panason
Will be just in time for winter holidays .. hyper I never thought I'd pre-order anything, let alone a Behringer product! I was thinking " do i really want this" and then started re-watching the SonicState video... as soon as Nick started playing it he hit the sine wave and I immediately stopped watching and went to the shop to put down some money.
milkshake
paperCUT wrote:
The talking filter sound at around 16 mins is really stunning, extremely clean sounding. https://youtu.be/xfD8RmALHwQ?t=957


I immediately thought of Add (N) to X's B.P. Perino. They use that synthesis technique all throughout that tune in the main lead. very cool.

Again this is a no-brainer synth from Behringer.
Mikro93
Behringer announced it today with a link to MusicStore's website.

Expected to be in stock by the end of June.

https://www.musicstore.de/en_US/EUR/Behringer-NEUTRON/art-SYN0006410-0 00
cnicht
Can the Neutron generate a CV which is the analog of the Note Number from the MIDI input? i.e. MIDI to pitch CV?

I couldn’t see this output in the patch bay and not sure from the manual if it’s available at the Assign output. It would be easy to add more oscillators to the Neutron if it was available without the need for another MIDI to CV converter.

I suspect it has been omitted though because of the auto calibration the Neutron goes through on power on.

Thanks

It's peanut butter jelly time!
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