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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Some wavefolders comparison
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Some wavefolders comparison
loorenz
Just to share with the community a short basic comparison of some wavefolders modules to hear the sound differences.

With some friends of mine, we can collect our different modules on the same day to do this shoutout.

Same source : a small sequence from a VCO sine wave out without any VCA.
Just some reverb to add some space.

Some modules cant do more than just folding, but in order to compare all of them we only use the fold section (no bias, no input saturation…)
Some modules output was higher than the others so we attenuate the output and try to matching the level.

Firstly the folding is activated by hand from zero to max a few times then an attenuated sine LFO was plugged in the CV in.

- WMD Ultrafold (only fold section)
- TipTop Fold Processor (only fold section)
- Toppobrillo Triple Wavefolder (only fold section)
Firstly folder1 out, then folder1+folder2 out and the 3 folders out
- NLC Timbre! input attenuated o that it doesn't clip the signal, then output signal amplified because it's really low
- Mutable Warps wavefolder from Parasite firmware - output attenuated
- Intellijel Ufold simplified version from Shapeshifter - output attenuated
- Expert Sleepers Disting - output attenuated

Hope it will help…

[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/wavefolders[/s]
Zymos
Cool, thanks for taking the time.
Is the WMD really that weak? Disting sounded different than the rest, like there was more going on than just folding.

I own the TipTop, and am pretty happy with it.
loorenz
Zymos wrote:
Is the WMD really that weak?

WMD folding alone is no the best for sure compared to others modules, but the folding section sound really better when the input saturation is pushed.
And the feedback section with an input on the WMD is a great add.
js213
Thanks for the comparison.

I've owned the WMD and TipTop modules and currently own the NLC Timbre!

I always liked the overall sound of the WMD, but sold it because I wasn't using it much. The fold itself, like loorenz mentioned, is somewhat weak. But with the drive section, you can get a pretty strong sound from it.
luketeaford
My favorite wave folder is the Random Source VCM middle section (and the DPO is a very close second, but sometimes the vactrol can be a little tell-tale striking it with a short trigger)

Of these, I prefer the Triple Wavefolder though all of them hit different sweet spots at different times for me.

Thanks for putting this together.
thetaflux
Great demo! I would love to see another version of this with a static sequence, but using all of the functionality of each wavefolder. that would be very useful imo
loorenz
thetaflux wrote:
Great demo! I would love to see another version of this with a static sequence, but using all of the functionality of each wavefolder. that would be very useful imo


When we ask us how to proceed to compare, we decide to record a sequence because some wavefolder doesn't react te same with with high and low notes.

Using all functionality, would have be complicated, particularly with Triple wavefolder, because there's so much possibilities with this one…
The Junglechrist
Nice idea ! The only standalone wavefolder I own is the µFold which I love but i have been very surprised by the Timbre from NLC which sound extremely close to the Verbos Complex Oscillator folder. I tried one recently so I can tell they sound very very close.

Other than that the Toppobrillo is also a very nice sounding one !
peripatitis
Warps and disting (especially the first) stand out as being pretty bad sounding in this test imo.
I liked the nlc although it is not clear from this recording, can it do milder tones or is it all in?
Eventually the triple folder stands out but i wonder if you just gave it more time in the test to explore compared to others..

Interesting test though, thumbs up
loorenz
peripatitis wrote:

I liked the nlc although it is not clear from this recording, can it do milder tones or is it all in?

NLC Timbre! (the single version because now there's a dual version with attenuators) is very very sensitive and quite tricky to use, you have to lower the input a bit if you want to have a sine at lower settings, otherwise it start folding the signal even when the fold knob is on zero.
Then the input CV is very sensitive too, you have to open the input attenuator just a bit so that the folding isn't too extreme.
And as you lower the input level, the output level is little bit low to my taste it's better to amplify the output a little bit.

So it's better attenuating input and modulation if you want subtle results.
But the sound is here when you find the sweet spot.
Timbre! was my preferred with the TWF.
Fold processor is nice but in the first half of the folding then is't too much for me.

In the new dual Timbre&Timbre version, some of those problems should be fixed with the build in attenuators.
Heliophile
Thanks for this very useful test!
The TipTop stands out for me as it provides a nice growl in the low end while remaining musical (i.e. producing not too many disharmonic overtones).
loorenz
thetaflux wrote:
Great demo! I would love to see another version of this with a static sequence, but using all of the functionality of each wavefolder. that would be very useful imo


I have recorded some tracks with the same sequence with Ultrafold, TWF, Fold Processor and Timbre! while using all of the functionality too.
I have to find the tracks and I will share that on soundcloud
I have recorded some tracks with the fold sections of complex VCO too: we recorded DPO, furthrrrr generator and Sputnik Dual OSC
search64
loorenz wrote:
peripatitis wrote:

I liked the nlc although it is not clear from this recording, can it do milder tones or is it all in?

NLC Timbre! (the single version because now there's a dual version with attenuators) is very very sensitive and quite tricky to use, you have to lower the input a bit if you want to have a sine at lower settings, otherwise it start folding the signal even when the fold knob is on zero.
Then the input CV is very sensitive too, you have to open the input attenuator just a bit so that the folding isn't too extreme.
And as you lower the input level, the output level is little bit low to my taste it's better to amplify the output a little bit.

So it's better attenuating input and modulation if you want subtle results.
But the sound is here when you find the sweet spot.
Timbre! was my preferred with the TWF.
Fold processor is nice but in the first half of the folding then is't too much for me.

In the new dual Timbre&Timbre version, some of those problems should be fixed with the build in attenuators.


Actually the clipping probably means you haven't adjusted the trimmer on the pcb correctly. You need to feed a sine to the input and set the trimmer so that it goes through unfolded with the fold pot all the way down.
Risc_Terilia
Great resource but a shame no one had a Doepfer A137-1 to hand.
loorenz
search64 wrote:

Actually the clipping probably means you haven't adjusted the trimmer on the pcb correctly. You need to feed a sine to the input and set the trimmer so that it goes through unfolded with the fold pot all the way down.

I have tried during the calibration, but even with the trimmer at a lower position, with a scope, to have a nice sine, I have to attenuate the input, otherwise I have a little "squared" sine or a folded signal depending of the source.

Look at those videos on YT, at the lower settings the signal is folded… no sine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3861OvkceQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkYhhWigXZA

Here is an explanation from this topic https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&p=2726663 :
andrewF wrote:

One issue with the single version was the lack of an input attenuator and it was designed to handle 5Vp-p signals (the original Buchla was designed for 1.2V or something). If you fed it a 10Vp-p signal you could never turn off the folding as the hot signal would turn on the FET and CV itself to cause folding. So to make it get down to a clean signal, the input had to to be attenuated somewhere else.
The build guide has mod info to build it for 10Vp-p signals but not everybody can solder.
The main changes to the new version, apart from being a dual, is that it has input attenuators and higher gain on the output stages so it is happy to handle 10Vp-p signals.
big job head
Very nice!
I would be great to have the original sequence and the modulating vco recorded appart so one could add others wavefolders to this comparison list.
My only wavefolder (beside the one in the dpo) is the abstract data ade-10. You have to find sweet spots with it but once you get it : Dead Banana
Risc_Terilia
I find wavefolders with offset to be the most incredible tonal tools - with subtle wavefolding when you move through he offset settings and it's like moving through dozens of different pieces of outboard all in one small module.
Futuresound
Risc_Terilia wrote:
I find wavefolders with offset to be the most incredible tonal tools - with subtle wavefolding when you move through he offset settings and it's like moving through dozens of different pieces of outboard all in one small module.


What do you mean by offset? Which wavefolders have this?
Risc_Terilia
Futuresound wrote:
Risc_Terilia wrote:
I find wavefolders with offset to be the most incredible tonal tools - with subtle wavefolding when you move through he offset settings and it's like moving through dozens of different pieces of outboard all in one small module.


What do you mean by offset? Which wavefolders have this?


It's basically adding DC to the signal. WMD Ultrafold calls it waveshift and the symmetry knob on the Doepfer A137 has very similar sonic results although i'm not sure it's the same thing.

You can do it which any wavefolder just by adding DC to the signal before it goes in.
Zymos
That's the same as "bias"?
Risc_Terilia
Zymos wrote:
That's the same as "bias"?


I believe it is, yes.

Edit: Ah I see that Tiptop Audio Fold processor has a bias as well - very nice.
loorenz
As promised, here are audio tracks from the same sequence from Ultrafold, TWF, Fold Processor and Timbre! while using manually all of the functionality.
For Tiptop I have recorder the sub out at the end
For TWF I have recorder the square out at the end
For ultrafold at the end there a second VCO sine plugged into the feedback input.

Then tracks from the final out of 3 complex VCO: DPO, furthrrrr generator and Sputnik Dual OSC
Not the same pitch than with the other VCO

TipTop FOLD PROCESSOR
[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/tiptop-fold[/s]

NLC Timbre
[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/nlc-timbre[/s]

ToppobrilloTWF
[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/toppobrillotwf[/s]

WMD Ultrafold
[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/wmd-ultrafold[/s]

Make Noise DPO
[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/make-noise-dpo[/s]

Sputnik Dual Osc
[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/sputnik-dual-osc[/s]

Endorphines furthrrrr
[s]https://soundcloud.com/loorenzo-blicharski/furthrrrr[/s]
timoka
thanks for these demos! quite astounding how different each wavefolder sounds...maybe that's why i have five smile

i love the twf, i found that and the doepfer A137-1 the ones with the broadest spectrum of possibilities with not alot of patching, the ufold and the randomsource are great too. the one i love most is the built in dpo folder section, that's why i collect folders like a madman because i wanted to replicate that section, however i don't think it's possible, the dpo folder is quite unique!
what's really clear for me in these demos is that the digital wavefolders sound sterile and harsh, especially in higher fold settings...
what i like to do when testing wavefolders is modulate them with audio rate signals, they can sound like fm and you get to know the folders personality really fast, with the right cv settings i can create string like sounds, flutes, brass and fm-y sounds with just a simple sine wave as input, for that i love the twf with it's three fold stages!
thetaflux
Wow! what a wonderful set of demos. Thank you! The TWF is ridiculous and has such a wide range of possible tones. I really need to pick one of those up. The furthurrr generator is no slouch either. I really enjoy my DPO's folder too and I agree with Timoka that it has a really unique sound that none of the others can come close to. I think it might have something to do with the unique spike and glitched triangle waveforms and how they sound when they're folded.


While we're on the topic of folders, how does the toppobrillo TWF compare to the R*S serge triple wave shaper?
nostalghia
Just thought I'd put in a mention of a great analog wavefolder that's been out for years but seems to seldom get mentioned or considered anymore, the STG Wave Folder. Based on a circuit licensed from Jürgen Haible, and it came out in MU format first, then a Eurorack version-identical far as I know.

Only reasons I can think of for its lack of popularity are that it is not available at many dealers (AH is all I found currently), and it's pretty dang deep (at least originally-STG was working on an updated, shallower version I believe) and wide at 14hp. Or maybe some found it too subtle-which could be the impression you get if you don't take time to find the right settings of the somewhat unconventional controls (including "offset") to unleash the beast, or play around with different modulation sources.

Description and pic on the STG site:STG Wave Folder-EU format

Here's a great demo video, feeding it input from two triangle waves at various intervals-check out the audio rate modulation results starting a bit before the 2 min mark!
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