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Hardware synth for sub bass rumble
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Author Hardware synth for sub bass rumble
sutekina bipu-on
I don't work in the box at all and know this is probably one of the only realms where software probably beats a lot of hardware offerings. Would it be crazy to get a synth dedicated to only producing shit between 1 and say, 50 or 60 hz. I have samples of sine waves i can load into my samplers but there must be a better way. Anyone got ideas? Is there any gear out there known for pushing the extreme low end most speakers dont even pick up?
acidbob
The blofeld can do a pretty nice job
milkshake
sutekina bipu-on wrote:
I don't work in the box at all and know this is probably one of the only realms where software probably beats a lot of hardware offerings. Would it be crazy to get a synth dedicated to only producing shit between 1 and say, 50 or 60 hz. I have samples of sine waves i can load into my samplers but there must be a better way. Anyone got ideas? Is there any gear out there known for pushing the extreme low end most speakers dont even pick up?


Most monitors can reproduce 50-60Hz at audible level.
For that frequency range there are tons of synths that will do.
Possibly the Behringer Model D is the best bang for buck.

If you really want to go low, 20Hz and lower, you need DC coupled stuff. All the Rob Hordijk Design is DC coupled and digital synths often are to.
sutekina bipu-on
milkshake wrote:
sutekina bipu-on wrote:
I don't work in the box at all and know this is probably one of the only realms where software probably beats a lot of hardware offerings. Would it be crazy to get a synth dedicated to only producing shit between 1 and say, 50 or 60 hz. I have samples of sine waves i can load into my samplers but there must be a better way. Anyone got ideas? Is there any gear out there known for pushing the extreme low end most speakers dont even pick up?


Most monitors can reproduce 50-60Hz at audible level.
For that frequency range there are tons of synths that will do.
Possibly the Behringer Model D is the best bang for buck.

If you really want to go low, 20Hz and lower, you need DC coupled stuff. All the Rob Hordijk Design is DC coupled and digital synths often are to.


Thanks for sharing this, I didn't know about Rob Hordijk's stuff before and now i am looking for a way to build or buy it!

Hmm, i think it will be most cost effective to stay digital for this, so i will definitely be looking into what is and is not dc coupled
Sir Ruff
A $50 TX-7 with a single operator sounding will give you plenty of sine sub.
sutekina bipu-on
Sir Ruff wrote:
A $50 TX-7 with a single operator sounding will give you plenty of sine sub.


Will it really push sub 20 hz?
Sir Ruff
sutekina bipu-on wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
A $50 TX-7 with a single operator sounding will give you plenty of sine sub.


Will it really push sub 20 hz?


Sub-20? No idea.. I thought you wanted 50-60? Actually not sure how Yamaha's perform there either. Probably sound too grungy.

If you're just wanting all round sub, why not get one if those rack sub-frequency synthesizers? They are cheap and let you dial in a specific frequency boost range.
sutekina bipu-on
Sir Ruff wrote:
sutekina bipu-on wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
A $50 TX-7 with a single operator sounding will give you plenty of sine sub.


Will it really push sub 20 hz?


Sub-20? No idea.. I thought you wanted 50-60? Actually not sure how Yamaha's perform there either. Probably sound too grungy.

If you're just wanting all round sub, why not get one if those rack sub-frequency synthesizers? They are cheap and let you dial in a specific frequency boost range.


Good point, i already have a 120a and i love it, however i was worried i would lose some of that subsonic range if i ran a 50, 60, 70 hz signal into a subharmonic synth.

Im starting to think that im overthinking it and a vst synth and dc coupled interface is probably what i want the most here, and i can keep loading distorted sine waves into my mpc. I'm thinking a drum n bass type of ultra low bassline that definitely reaches below what most sound systems and any headphones can produce (so it wouldnt be entirely sub 20 but able to extend down there wit clarity and accuracy)

I have been listening to a lot of bass mekanik presents deiko albums. BDM is a good one.
nomadjames
sutekina bipu-on
Could you elaborate on how you use that DBX 120A? I'm interested.

I would think the best bet for controlled subs would be using a sampler, tbh.
cube48
E-MU Ultra series samplers produce seriously heavy subs. I guess it’s a certain combination of digital filters (set to boost low end) and DA converters. It surpasses any of analogs and digitals I had my hands on. Some Yamaha FM synths get close to it.
estin
Worse case adding a decent outboard EQ would get you there with what you already have. Also would do a lot more when needed.
nomadjames
cube48 wrote:
E-MU Ultra series samplers produce seriously heavy subs. I guess it’s a certain combination of digital filters (set to boost low end) and DA converters. It surpasses any of analogs and digitals I had my hands on. Some Yamaha FM synths get close to it.


That would be why the whole genre is DnB was spawned from those things.

Z-Plane filters SlayerBadger!
hardwarecore
Spectralis could be worth a look for this. The hybrid synth run through the filterbank might be just what you're looking for.
calaveras
I lean on my Machinedrum when a sub bass tone that is not melodic is required. Otherwise I go to Taurus III. It’s not sine, but that’s what a lowpass filter is adept at. Removing harmonics. I think the minitaur is similar.
Chopper
Any synth with sine as one of the available waveform will do.
As mentioned earlier, any cheap fm with a default patch comsisting of one operator only...
sutekina bipu-on
Wow, Emu Ultra i should have thought of that. That thing is capable of pushing some monster bass.

nomadjames wrote:
sutekina bipu-on
Could you elaborate on how you use that DBX 120A? I'm interested.

I would think the best bet for controlled subs would be using a sampler, tbh.


I actually put it on the aux of my mixer -after- the reverb i also have on the aux.... so it goes mixer aux -> reverb -> 120A -> return. Just to give everything on the mix some extra weight.
ranix
why not pick up a small system from synthesizers.com? you could make a simple analog signal path with a couple of oscillators, 2 envelopes, a filter, and a vca that would do everything you can want at sub-50hz

Never maintain cash savings again
calaveras
Chopper wrote:
Any synth with sine as one of the available waveform will do.
As mentioned earlier, any cheap fm with a default patch comsisting of one operator only...

I'm gonna disagree. Not any synth with a sinewave will give you a good sub bass.
I've found that analog sines can be a little too fuzzy and indistinct when I get down in to the lowest octaves. The Taurus being the only analog synth I've used that goes down into movie theatre subwoofer territory without giving up. And that is a square wave?
A couple of other Moogs I've owned or had the pleasure to have on extended loan just don't go down that low really. Sure folks like to talk about 'Mooooog Basss'. But that is really mid bass. And they are more about the rich timbres that you can get with a half open ladder filter.

Analog emulations (hardware or software) and strictly digital synths seem to do a better job of solid extreme low end.
Like if you listen to any of the hip hop or industrial I've done in the past 8 years, the sub lows ==>Machinedrum ==>GND==>sine generator.
acidbob
calaveras wrote:
Chopper wrote:
Any synth with sine as one of the available waveform will do.
As mentioned earlier, any cheap fm with a default patch comsisting of one operator only...

I'm gonna disagree. Not any synth with a sinewave will give you a good sub bass.
I've found that analog sines can be a little too fuzzy and indistinct when I get down in to the lowest octaves. The Taurus being the only analog synth I've used that goes down into movie theatre subwoofer territory without giving up. And that is a square wave?
A couple of other Moogs I've owned or had the pleasure to have on extended loan just don't go down that low really. Sure folks like to talk about 'Mooooog Basss'. But that is really mid bass. And they are more about the rich timbres that you can get with a half open ladder filter.

Analog emulations (hardware or software) and strictly digital synths seem to do a better job of solid extreme low end.
Like if you listen to any of the hip hop or industrial I've done in the past 8 years, the sub lows ==>Machinedrum ==>GND==>sine generator.


I have to agree with calaveras. TX81z owner here, it does not produce sub like the Blofeld. Other good synths with good sub bass are Nordlead and Virus. Also you have to really work that EQ. Maybe imagine something like this, the Virus and Nord excel in this territory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB0LZ5OTwoU / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaX4GmhYu8A
sutekina bipu-on
acidbob wrote:
calaveras wrote:
Chopper wrote:
Any synth with sine as one of the available waveform will do.
As mentioned earlier, any cheap fm with a default patch comsisting of one operator only...

I'm gonna disagree. Not any synth with a sinewave will give you a good sub bass.
I've found that analog sines can be a little too fuzzy and indistinct when I get down in to the lowest octaves. The Taurus being the only analog synth I've used that goes down into movie theatre subwoofer territory without giving up. And that is a square wave?
A couple of other Moogs I've owned or had the pleasure to have on extended loan just don't go down that low really. Sure folks like to talk about 'Mooooog Basss'. But that is really mid bass. And they are more about the rich timbres that you can get with a half open ladder filter.

Analog emulations (hardware or software) and strictly digital synths seem to do a better job of solid extreme low end.
Like if you listen to any of the hip hop or industrial I've done in the past 8 years, the sub lows ==>Machinedrum ==>GND==>sine generator.


I have to agree with calaveras. TX81z owner here, it does not produce sub like the Blofeld. Other good synths with good sub bass are Nordlead and Virus. Also you have to really work that EQ. Maybe imagine something like this, the Virus and Nord excel in this territory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB0LZ5OTwoU / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaX4GmhYu8A


Shit, i've been wanting a reason to get a nord lead for a long time. This is it! Plus, those Paul Blackford tracks are nice
BenJBX
I use Studio Electronics SE-1 for analogue sub bass with harmonics that extend further up, and the FS1r for solid digital sub.
calaveras
Yeah when I'm trying to get that low end that sounds like it's underneath the house, EQ is very crucial. I often will chop off everything under 25 or 30 and then add a peaking boost with a good clean EQ at 30 or 40.
The other thing that is insanely good is the Little Labs VOG. The hardware unit and the plug in are fricking amazing at making that low end solid as hell and brutal. Kicks, synths, effects. Even voices. It kills. 1000% better than a DBX 120. Though it is fun to combine it with a suboctave generator.

The point about harmonics is a good one.
One time I was trying out a synth through my recently acquired Community CSX57 three way sound reinforcement speakers. These are 800 watt power handling, two 15" with mid driver and tweeter per each cab.
So I was really shocked that the lowest key on my synth was inaudible.
Then I noticed stuff was falling off of shelves all over the room. hihi
oops.
There are a couple plugins I forget the names of that do a good job of creating harmonics in the midbass as if there was a low end that extended much lower. Logic Pro X has 'SubBass' which can kinda do that but the Waves or whatever version seems better. (sorry I don't do cracked plugins anymore so I forget).
estin
ranix wrote:
why not pick up a small system from synthesizers.com? you could make a simple analog signal path with a couple of oscillators, 2 envelopes, a filter, and a vca that would do everything you can want at sub-50hz

Never maintain cash savings again


Weird, years ago a I had a dotcom system portable 22 and I remember it not having a whole lot of weight in the bottom end especially compared to a moog little phatty.
acidbob
calaveras wrote:
Yeah when I'm trying to get that low end that sounds like it's underneath the house, EQ is very crucial. I often will chop off everything under 25 or 30 and then add a peaking boost with a good clean EQ at 30 or 40.
The other thing that is insanely good is the Little Labs VOG. The hardware unit and the plug in are fricking amazing at making that low end solid as hell and brutal. Kicks, synths, effects. Even voices. It kills. 1000% better than a DBX 120. Though it is fun to combine it with a suboctave generator.

The point about harmonics is a good one.
One time I was trying out a synth through my recently acquired Community CSX57 three way sound reinforcement speakers. These are 800 watt power handling, two 15" with mid driver and tweeter per each cab.
So I was really shocked that the lowest key on my synth was inaudible.
Then I noticed stuff was falling off of shelves all over the room. hihi
oops.
There are a couple plugins I forget the names of that do a good job of creating harmonics in the midbass as if there was a low end that extended much lower. Logic Pro X has 'SubBass' which can kinda do that but the Waves or whatever version seems better. (sorry I don't do cracked plugins anymore so I forget).


Could it be something like this, which is also in plugin?
https://spl.info/classics/stereo-vitalizer-mk2-t/?lang=en
I had good success with it, SPL also makes other plugins but this was particularly good, especially if you want to keep the mud away, give more bottom end and punch
hsosdrum
I'm VERY curious to know exactly what speakers you folks are using that can reproduce honest fundamentals between 20Hz – 30Hz. Lots of speakers will produce doubling and give you output at 50Hz when fed a 25Hz sine wave, but there are precious few speakers that will produce that 25Hz fundamental at decent output with low distortion and no doubling.

Producing clean fundamentals below 30Hz at the volumes needed for audiences in public spaces requires huge speakers and tons of amplifier power (a 16Hz wavelength is 64 feet long, so you need to move lots and lots of air before humans will even feel it). Feeding infrasonic program material (such as between 10Hz and 20Hz) to speakers that can't reproduce it is a recipe for driving amplifiers into clipping and overheating woofer voice coils.
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