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Patching "a series of multiple routing paths..."
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author Patching "a series of multiple routing paths..."
dooj88
i was watching the most recent sonictalk and nick mentioned he had a conversation with richard devine about patching. listening to his compositions, i can hear it now. however, i can't conceptualize how the patching would actually happen.

nick said richard implements: "a series of multiple routing paths.. it's a question of when you bring them in by mixing those routing and bringing them in at various times with clock divider." [paraphrasing a bit]

i can see a clock divider spawning off different CV paths.. EG opens a VCA for an LFO to sync blahblahblahetc.. but i'm not sure how to take 'mix them.' is it simply with a CV mixer? or is there a more elegant implementation?

here at 21:33



this patch always blows me away, and i think is a good candidate for illustrating an example for discussion

Dcramer
You could implement such an idea with cv mixers and switches or VCAs to change up modulation content and destination.
I sometimes use Frames for this as it lets you switch or morph between info to four different inputs to one or four different outs. thumbs up
notmiserlouagain
There is a design by Jürgen Haible, the morphing programmer, which looks really good conceptually, but I haven´t seen any real world implementations...
[url=Morphing programmer]http://jhaible.com/legacy/tonline_stuff/morph.html[/url]
arthurdent
notmiserlouagain wrote:
There is a design by Jürgen Haible, the morphing programmer, which looks really good conceptually, but I haven´t seen any real world implementations...
[url=Morphing programmer]http://jhaible.com/legacy/tonline_stuff/morph.html[/url]

The way I read this, you make up a "master" patch, then stick in a bunch of CV-controlled mixers and/or shift registers to vary the modulation on the fly, either gradually with the mixers or instantaneously with the registers. The basic patch could be a simple VCO-VCF-VCA but then you'd have dozens of peripherals in the background feeding the patch. DUNNO, just a quick take after 3 glasses of wine...
cptnal
The way I'm reading it, this is matrix mixer/VCA territory. Some kind of voltage control if a clock divider is involved. This is the reason I got a Mix04 - send one signal to multiple destinations, or mix several into one. Both at once!

In my case I like to use slewed random to vary the mix, rather than a clock divider firing gates/triggers/offsets, which would make more sense in a structured patch.

Edit: To be clear I should say "audio" rather than "signal", otherwise I'm just repeating what arthurdent said. zombie
Dcramer
I think it may have been Erika that made a giant programable matrix in Euro, with a giant screen on it? hmmm.....
jmila
I think this is the Erika mixer you're talking about: http://www.ericasynths.lv/en/shop/eurorack-modules/by-functions/sequen cers/matrix-mixer/

Also... this Alyseum mixer looks fun! https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alyseum-ms-matrix
arthurdent
So this is what Jürgen Haible says about his controller:
Quote:
Morphing Programmer Description

Morphing is crossfading of synth parameters, as opposed to just crossfading between complete sounds.
Morphing is far more interesting than just plain crossfading or switching of sounds!

The idea is to store several parameters of a modular patch, and "morph" between them.

My morphing programmer also allows one to switch instantly between sounds with no morph taking place.
You could switch between two or three sounds during a live performance,
change a filter cutoff, an envelope decay time or a certain LFO modulation strength.
You might even want to use a 4-pole-filter in one sound, and a 6-pole-phase-shifter in another.
(You can create dramatically different sounds on a modular, when only a few parameters are changed in this manner.)

What is needed here is a set of preset voltages (potentiometers for manual control voltages),
a switch to choose a certain set of preset voltages and VCAs to route the analog signal path.



He talks about crossfading of synth parameters as opposed the the crossfading of sounds (even though a few sentences later he mentions switching between sounds). Changing filter cutoffs, envelope decay times, modulation strength, and the switchable set of preset voltages almost sounds like setting up a CV sequencer (say a 3 row x 8 step) along with a trigger sequencer to feed the CV's for cutoffs, decays, etc., and the triggers to switch between his 4-pole filter and his 6-pole phase shifter and any other in-between hardware - wave shapers, random generators, delay/reverb, etc. Then you just manually trigger the sequencers when/if you want to morph.

There's enough off-the-shelf hardware available today to do this, albeit you'd use a lot of real estate in your rack - although, dcramer, you probably have the stuff to do this right now thumbs up thumbs up
listentoaheartbeat
notmiserlouagain wrote:
There is a design by Jürgen Haible, the morphing programmer, which looks really good conceptually, but I haven´t seen any real world implementations...
[url=Morphing programmer]http://jhaible.com/legacy/tonline_stuff/morph.html[/url]


You can achieve morphing of settings with scanners like the Haible Interpolating Scanner, Toppobrillo Multiplexer, or the one Dave Dixon is cooking up in the DIY forum as we speak. Mutable Frames can do it with even less patching. If you don‘t mind some lag, programmers like Pressure Points with slew rate limiting should do the trick, too. Same with using offsets, switches, slew rate limiters.
Dcramer
Yup thumbs up I’ve been using Frames to do this.
It’s combination of audio and CV make it a perfect tool for this w00t
Futuresound
One interpretation is that Mr. Devine uses clock dividers and switches to send cv/gates/triggers/audio in various directions, and probably interconnected via mixers.

If you had multiple signal sources, and multiple switches being switched at different rates, you could easily end up with signals being routed in very complex ways.
witchbutter
I've been using Frames as well, but if I had the space for it this is a perfect case for the WMD sequential switch matrix. If you sum your mixed CV signals into the SSM you can program states that reroute the destinations of your CV in time with your tempo.
gonkulator
witchbutter wrote:
I've been using Frames as well, but if I had the space for it this is a perfect case for the WMD sequential switch matrix. If you sum your mixed CV signals into the SSM you can program states that reroute the destinations of your CV in time with your tempo.


Yeah, I do that a lot with it.
dooj88
gonkulator wrote:
witchbutter wrote:
I've been using Frames as well, but if I had the space for it this is a perfect case for the WMD sequential switch matrix. If you sum your mixed CV signals into the SSM you can program states that reroute the destinations of your CV in time with your tempo.


Yeah, I do that a lot with it.


yeah i've been eyeing the SSM for months. kind of saving it for a rainy day to really spice things up. i agree it would be the easiest way to implement. i know nick isn't a huge modularhead, maybe he misunderstood.

other great suggestions here as well. i think running different paths into cascading vcas while opening them at different times and routing the sum to wherever might be the most straightforward way to get this done, though takes a lot of real estate.

and that haible morphing programmer is wild. gonna have to read more about it.
notmiserlouagain
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
notmiserlouagain wrote:
There is a design by Jürgen Haible, the morphing programmer, which looks really good conceptually, but I haven´t seen any real world implementations...
[url=Morphing programmer]http://jhaible.com/legacy/tonline_stuff/morph.html[/url]


You can achieve morphing of settings with scanners like the Haible Interpolating Scanner, Toppobrillo Multiplexer, or the one Dave Dixon is cooking up in the DIY forum as we speak. Mutable Frames can do it with even less patching. If you don‘t mind some lag, programmers like Pressure Points with slew rate limiting should do the trick, too. Same with using offsets, switches, slew rate limiters.


Yes: one scanner, one parameter morph. The Haible circuit though morphs several parameters at once (as I understand it) and so achieves drastic changes in sound. One could call it a matrix scanner. hmmm.....
Or am I going nuts? SlayerBadger!
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