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Ableton push and modular, latency problems
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author Ableton push and modular, latency problems
eddock
Hi! I'm new in modular synth and in muffwiggler. I'm (potentially seriously, i just don't get it ) in trouble with latency problems. Just a simple question. I'm planning what to buy to write sequences and playing directly with ableton push 2 on my (future) modular synth. In my mind the midi chain will be: push - > macbook - > M-Audio MidiSport 1x1 - > befaco midi thing. Then the audio in a focusrite scarlett 2i2 and then again in ableton live. I'm going to have latency if I play a note on the push? I've just got the push, the MacBook and the scarlett of all these things that I've named, but I want to save me from the cost of the expert sleepers ES-8. There are other expert sleepers modules that can help me? I need at least 4 cv's out (to control 4 voice modules with 1v/oct). Wich is the best way? Wich the cheaper?
Dragonaut
An ES-3 is a good bet and maybe cheaper as long as your audio card supports ADAT.
dbcoder
There will always be latency in ableton when monitoring.

I recommend turning off monitoring on your audio tracks in ableton and use direct monitoring from your focusrite scarlett 2i2.

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207546305-What-is-dire ct-monitoring-

If direct monitoring is not gonna work for you (like you NEED to hear effects on the track) then https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209072289-Latency-and-Delay -Compensation-overview
Sleipnir
eddock wrote:
Hi! I'm new in modular synth and in muffwiggler. I'm (potentially seriously, i just don't get it ) in trouble with latency problems.


Whoa, hold up there. You're getting upset and planning to solve a non-existent problem by buying hardware and you haven't even tried it yet?
I use my Push with modular (via a Mutable Yarns and the Live "external instrument") all the time, and the latency is no more than any other MIDI keyboard - which the Push essentially is. Millions of musicians have been playing MIDI keyboards into their DAWS for decades with acceptable (~10ms) latency. Said latency will be dependant on your system and your audio interface+settings (eg., 48k has lower latency than 44.1k, smaller buffer sizes are better, etc.). On a good system you can easily get down to <5ms.

I suggest you try it out first - you'll probably be perfectly happy.
Where you see modular users complaining about MIDI is more to do with the timing jitter, which affects complex sequences in long form pieces interacting with the non-jittery-ness of modular clocks.

Quote:
I need at least 4 cv's out (to control 4 voice modules with 1v/oct). Wich is the best way? Wich the cheaper?


This also makes me nervous. You haven't started your modular journey yet, and it looks like you're planning to start with a 4-voice polyphonic? Trust me [us] - polyphonic modular is a road to frustration (and debt).
Polytimbral is another story, but if you think you're happily going to patch up your system and play some chords, you are in for a world of pain. Use the modular for what it's good for (leads, basses, percussion, funky noises, drones, yadda yadda), and save the chord vamping for the VSTs.

Also note, you need at least 2 cvs for every voice: pitch (1v/o), and on/off (gate/trigger). That leaves you zero other modulation paths from your sequencer/Push. Add Velecity, Aftertouch, and Modwheel (the 3 basics, available even on the Push), and now you're using 5 cv paths for a single note.

Not trying to harsh your buzz (much), just suggesting you slow down, take a deep breath, and think about what you really want to do with the modular. That will make you're journey fun and exciting.
Guinness ftw!
hamildad
Sleipnir wrote:


Whoa, hold up there. You're getting upset and planning to solve a non-existent problem by buying hardware and you haven't even tried it yet?



Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you the state of Modular Synthesis on the internet in 2018.

applause applause applause applause applause applause applause
eddock
Sleipnir
Really really thank you! I know I'm running too quickly... I'm just a lot excited and yes, I need to slow down. You're right: I must take and try.
Sometimes I understand that I create to myself problems and necessities that doesn't exist yet, and for this reason I'm asking in this forum.
The only thing that makes me sad is the fact that I feel people around me that are experts and judge me or remain upset every time I'm asking for something. I don't think I am "the state of Modular Synthesis on the internet in 2018"...
I'm a boy starting a very fascinating, radical, beautiful (and expensive) way of making sounds... So, somewhere you have to start... [/list]
Sleipnir
eddock wrote:
Sleipnir
...
I'm a boy starting a very fascinating, radical, beautiful (and expensive) way of making sounds... So, somewhere you have to start...

Yup it’s cool, just take it slow and careful, and maybe you’ll avoid the frustrations a lot of people have in their explorations with Modular.
In the old days, you started with prebuilt configurations, so less of a chance of being surprised with a system that has some fancy modules but can’t do the basics.
Also, I think hamildad is expressing the frustration (that I share) of people asking things like “how do I make [some sound]?”, and the answers come back “buy [somebody’s favorite] module”, when A) that doesn’t answer the question, and B) they could have usually figured it out with some time spent with what they have.
Sinamsis
I don't understand why people even bring up latency in Ableton. I find it to be the DAW that offers the greatest number of tools to address latency. Not to mention, MIDI is not the issue here usually, it's audio. And to recommend Expert Sleepers... that solves jitter, and timing issues when sending several MIDI messages at the same time; but not really latency. Honestly, I drank the ES kool aid for a while, but I just found it very cumbersome. I have two Shuttle Controls now and I'm much happier. But I digress... What they said.
whinger
The external instrument feature really helped me out with some latency issues, when you get Ableton, maybe try that?

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209774265-Using-external-ha rdware
hamildad
eddock wrote:

. I don't think I am "the state of Modular Synthesis on the internet in 2018"...
I'm a boy starting a very fascinating, radical, beautiful (and expensive) way of making sounds... So, somewhere you have to start... [/list]


Wasn't meant personally, in fact you can search my thread history and look at all the threads I started in 2012 asking similar questions.

I just feel that for everyone, maybe we are buying our way out of problems rather than looking to learn our way out of them..

all the more when you dont actually have the problem, but you are expecting the problem...

enjoy your modular and enjoy Push, they'll be great. Dont fall into the trap of asking the internet to tell you what problems you have and how to spend those problems away.... there is enough of that everywhere else..

sorry if I harshed your buzz...
eddock
hamildad
Thank you, you're right. I just have to try and see. I am only scared about spending money for a midi interface and a midi to cv module that doesn't allow me to play in real time with the push.
Thank you all, fantastic community. Really excited to start
Sinamsis
eddock wrote:
hamildad
Thank you, you're right. I just have to try and see. I am only scared about spending money for a midi interface and a midi to cv module that doesn't allow me to play in real time with the push.
Thank you all, fantastic community. Really excited to start


Look at the shuttle control. Just need a USB connection. And 16 outs that can be assigned very flexible through an HTML editor. IMO it’s a great module even for a relatively smaller system (for example the shuttle system).
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