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Supercell - an expanded version of Clouds - Parasites beta
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next [all]
Author Supercell - an expanded version of Clouds - Parasites beta
sackley
Awesome, I've wanted this since seeing the buchla format version and being frustrated with the Clouds layout while I had it. Definitely interested.

I also prefer having attenuverters built into the design.
sempervirent
Just catching up on questions/feedback... but first of all I want to say thanks to those who preordered, and also say thanks to everyone for the good vibes and positive encouragement. Wasn't sure how this announcement would go but I'm glad that people get the point and are willing to make space.

1. MCU/memory upgrades. For now, just to set expectations, assume that the audio quality will be identical to Clouds. But I'm looking into what's possible.

2. Attenuators. These are definitely going to stay... as @forestcaver pointed out, Clouds is not just a slim 16hp when you've got it set up for complex modulation.

3. Internal modulation normalizations. I like this idea a lot, and it sort of addresses the attenuator/size concerns too, because it frees up external modulators and/or allows the module to find a place in smaller systems. Again, just to set expectations, I can't say for sure that this will be part of the initial release, but the necessary hardware changes will be made to support it.

4. Open source. The PCB files will be shared in their native formats. I should have mentioned this in the first post, but assumed that it was implicit, because anything else would not be in compliance with the CC license.

5. Price. Totally understand if people don't want to preorder based on an unknown final cost. As an educated guess, the price will be somewhere between Clouds (obviously Supercell requires more parts and assembly) and Elements (which is also 34hp).

6. Alternative firmware. Matthias has given permission for Parasites specifically, and a couple of people have volunteered to help. Shouldn't be any problem getting the alternate code working with the Supercell hardware.

There were some other suggestions via PM that I'll respond to individually. Thanks again.
Homepage Englisch
tbecker wrote:
This interface is very nice and has several performance updates such as the blend breakouts which will be great. Two not so easy things I would consider would be (1) the possibilty of some internal random/control cvs normalled to the top row, maybe with a global level over how much is fed into each main parameter (would require updating the code) (2) faster cpu and more ram so you can get more grains than the original at higher sample rates. This might justify the space for me and could provide a longer life for the unit.

Nice work as always!


This. Thousand times this.

Internal S&H/LFO.

I know, one of the resons why Olivier was unhappy with Clouds boils down to listening to people's complaints about muddy sound, while not using external modulation sources, and saying "it's a unit for a modular, it should be modulated externally", but...

The majority of phaser effects, even those in modular world have an internal LFO. If they don't, they will be modulated by an external one.

But we know phasers. They're part of music for 40+ years.

Clouds is new.* I guarantee if it came out with an internal modulation source, it would have been much bigger success. I guess the reason for it's tremenduous popularity but also for love-hate relationship is this newness, the unknown, the hint of absolutely fabulous sound-mangling but not quite knowing how to get there, or envisioning that exact "there".

I'm way off topic now. Point being, internal modulation is welcome.

__
(New-ish. I know, granular synthesis has been around for a while. But Clouds was the first to break the granular ice in modular community just as DX7 was first to break the digital ice among keyboards, even if it wasn't exactly first digital synth.)
Puscha
sempervirent wrote:

1. MCU/memory upgrades. For now, just to set expectations, assume that the audio quality will be identical to Clouds. But I'm looking into what's possible.

2. Attenuators. These are definitely going to stay... as @forestcaver pointed out, Clouds is not just a slim 16hp when you've got it set up for complex modulation.

3. Internal modulation normalizations. I like this idea a lot, and it sort of addresses the attenuator/size concerns too, because it frees up external modulators and/or allows the module to find a place in smaller systems. Again, just to set expectations, I can't say for sure that this will be part of the initial release, but the necessary hardware changes will be made to support it.


Woooo! These three points make it very appealing to me. Modulation normalization is a rad idea. I really hope that the memory can be updated, but if not I agree wholeheartedly with listentoaheartbeat:

listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Also why not drop the reverb, it does not offer much to have this integrated and would make the concept more focused. I am sure there is a better use for that panel space and processing power.


I also don't think that the reverb is entirely necessary to keep. Sure it can be useful, especially in very small systems, but more processing power for granular effects (and even longer loops?) would be way more useful than something that can easily be found in many other ways. It could make this module slightly smaller too.

I have also made a deposit cool
beliefsystemrecords
IS this going to be available as a pcb only?
neonmercury1
i was very excited to see the Buchla version of this and was hoping that someday it would be realized in euro format. i feel this adds what i felt was lacking from the OG release. that said i think my purchase would depend on what oliver has cooking...
peteone
So I was just looking at panels on grayscale, saw supercell read the whole thing and pre-ordered . When is this coming out?
sempervirent
Puscha wrote:
I also don't think that the reverb is entirely necessary to keep. Sure it can be useful, especially in very small systems, but more processing power for granular effects (and even longer loops?) would be way more useful than something that can easily be found in many other ways. It could make this module slightly smaller too.

The layout is mostly dictated by the spacing of the five knobs at the top (the core parameters) so the presence/absence of the Reverb knob doesn't really shift the spatial balance significantly. Also, with a higher-spec MCU, removing the reverb wouldn't be required to achieve something like longer recording buffers. I think the reverb algorithm sounds very good and there aren't a lot of compact reverb options in Euro anyway, so it was a good inclusion on Olivier's part, and it's something I want to keep for Supercell.

beliefsystemrecords wrote:
IS this going to be available as a pcb only?

Haven't really thought about DIY options yet, the immediate goal is to get the hardware fully validated and offer assembled modules.

peteone wrote:
So I was just looking at panels on grayscale, saw supercell read the whole thing and pre-ordered. When is this coming out?

Thanks a lot... Muff's Law dictates that announcing a release date ahead of time ensures that unforeseen circumstances will delay the release, but mid/late spring (May/June) isn't out of the question.
desdinova
Synapse changed my workflow. Got a DAO on order, excited for your expanded turing module and will probably jump on a pre-order for this in black. You're killing it dude, keep it up :v
jimfowler
I’ll hold off on building my diy clouds in hopes that this becomes available as a pcb/panel.
mirth23
This looks really fantastic! I was wiggling with a Clouds live a few weeks back and this overcomes a lot of my annoyances. Supercell also won't really take up much extra space in my rack if I kick out the attenuators that I need to dedicate to Clouds.
dooj88
sempervirent wrote:
Puscha wrote:
I also don't think that the reverb is entirely necessary to keep. Sure it can be useful, especially in very small systems, but more processing power for granular effects (and even longer loops?) would be way more useful than something that can easily be found in many other ways. It could make this module slightly smaller too.

The layout is mostly dictated by the spacing of the five knobs at the top (the core parameters) so the presence/absence of the Reverb knob doesn't really shift the spatial balance significantly. Also, with a higher-spec MCU, removing the reverb wouldn't be required to achieve something like longer recording buffers. I think the reverb algorithm sounds very good and there aren't a lot of compact reverb options in Euro anyway, so it was a good inclusion on Olivier's part, and it's something I want to keep for Supercell.


yeah i think the verb sounds great too. you can't control the room size, but clouds is a granular module, the reverb is a really nice extra feature.
mün
This looks exciting! w00t
What about separate feedback ins and outs?
Would this be possible/make sense?
sempervirent
Interesting idea, but it's a bit beyond the core concept, and it's also something that could be patched up externally in a more flexible way.

A few details have changed since the thread was started (the renderings in the first post have been updated):
  • The 1V/Oct input is now on the left side, and the Pitch input on the bottom row is now a linear (rather than exponential) CV input with an attenuverter. So all nine CV inputs now have the same range, which should provide a bit more flexibility. If the 1V/Oct input is used simultaneously with the Pitch CV input, the voltages will be summed.
  • The new AUX input distributes a single modulation signal to all unpatched CV inputs on the bottom row. The attenuverter knobs can be used to control the level/polarity of that signal as it's routed to each parameter. If a CV input is patched, the AUX signal will be bypassed for that parameter.
  • If nothing is patched into the AUX input, an internal random source will be normalized to any unpatched CV inputs. The attenuverters can be used to set the modulation level.
  • Mute switches for the input and output stereo pairs have been added to provide some extra performance controls.

That's it for now... the hardware is moving forward with this feature set.
dooj88
sempervirent wrote:
Interesting idea, but it's a bit beyond the core concept, and it's also something that could be patched up externally in a more flexible way.

A few details have changed since the thread was started (the renderings in the first post have been updated):
  • The 1V/Oct input is now on the left side, and the Pitch input on the bottom row is now a linear (rather than exponential) CV input with an attenuverter. So all nine CV inputs now have the same range, which should provide a bit more flexibility. If the 1V/Oct input is used simultaneously with the Pitch CV input, the voltages will be summed.
  • The new AUX input distributes a single modulation signal to all unpatched CV inputs on the bottom row. The attenuverter knobs can be used to control the level/polarity of that signal as it's routed to each parameter. If a CV input is patched, the AUX signal will be bypassed for that parameter.
  • If nothing is patched into the AUX input, an internal random source will be normalized to any unpatched CV inputs. The attenuverters can be used to set the modulation level.
  • Mute switches for the input and output stereo pairs have been added to provide some extra performance controls.

That's it for now... the hardware is moving forward with this feature set.


well done!! fantastic revisions!

love applause applause
Tboy
I’m curious to know if the memory will be upgraded, couldn’t find any information about this unfortunately...
sempervirent
Posted above:

sempervirent wrote:
MCU/memory upgrades. For now, just to set expectations, assume that the audio quality will be identical to Clouds. But I'm looking into what's possible.


That was written about two months ago... I'd make the same statement today. With the current hardware spec it might be possible to increase the sampling frequency but a buffer length of more than 8 seconds is not on the menu. Since Clouds isn't really a sampler/recorder in the traditional sense, I'm fine with that limitation.
Tboy
Cheers for responding Sempervirent, I indeed read your previous post, hoping to hear otherwise two months later hihi
uniquepersonno2
Any updates on this? I'm really excited to see this once it's all finished!
Homepage Englisch
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?
helix
Looks great! I like it being more hands on. Menu's kind of take away the whole hands on point of eurorack/analog synthesis for me
helix
Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?


A detent in the middle would make most sense
xenosapien
helix wrote:
Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?


A detent in the middle would make most sense


I have yet to see minishaft-pots with center detents.

Don´t think that´s gonna happen.

Your best bet would probably the "zero point" since that can/is implemented in the software side, if I remember Olivier´s original remarks about this on his products...
euxine
xenosapien wrote:
helix wrote:
Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?


A detent in the middle would make most sense


I have yet to see minishaft-pots with center detents.

Don´t think that´s gonna happen.


The Frap Tools CGM mix series has mini pots with centre detent for panning. Of course, the accuracy of these isn't perfect, but I tend to re-balance stereo signals from modular anyway...
sempervirent
uniquepersonno2 wrote:
Any updates on this? I'm really excited to see this once it's all finished!

Still in prototyping mode... working through some of the firmware changes.

Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?

That was one concern that I had when considering internally-normalized modulations, but the added utility of bipolar attenuators seemed worth it. On modules like Elements (which has roughly the same number of attenuverters) I haven't found it particularly difficult to zero out external CVs.

xenosapien wrote:
Your best bet would probably the "zero point" since that can/is implemented in the software side, if I remember Olivier´s original remarks about this on his products...

I think the original Braids used center-detent pots but later modules do not. IIRC the issue was that the mechanical detent does not match the true center of the range due to variations in potentiometer tolerances. So you could set the pots to the mechanical center but they're not really zeroed out.
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