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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Supercell - an expanded version of Clouds - Parasites beta
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Supercell - an expanded version of Clouds - Parasites beta
sempervirent
Update: as of Jan 17, 2019 modules are back in stock:
https://grayscale.info/supercell/





Over the past year or so I've been developing some Buchla-format adaptations of certain Mutable modules. One of these (Stereo Microsound Processor) is a maximal take on Clouds with additional controls and features that make the core functionality somewhat easier to use. As work on the SMP progressed, Clouds itself was actually discontinued, and bringing this "expanded Clouds" concept back into Eurorack format seemed like an interesting proposition. So after some discussion with Olivier, prototyping of this expanded Eurorack version of Clouds is underway.

Most open source adaptations of Mutable modules are focused on extreme spatial efficiency, often at the expense of usability, so I thought it would be interesting to go in the opposite direction. At 34hp, it's almost twice the size of Clouds. But if you want to go deeper with the concept, it might be worth it. Here's what Supercell adds to the original:

  • Each of the Blend parameters have been separated into individual controls with their own CV inputs and inverting attenuators.
  • A stereo output gain control has been added, providing an additional +6 dB of gain to compensate for low output levels when using certain parameter combinations.
  • The inputs and outputs now include stereo VCAs and separate VU meters. The knobs act as offset controls when their respective VCA inputs are patched.
  • The complex process of changing the quality settings and managing presets has been simplified with dedicated switches and status LEDs.
  • A manual Trig switch (for capturing individual grains) has been added.
  • An internal noise source is normalized to all unpatched modulation parameters.
  • An AUX CV input routes a single external modulation source to all unpatched modulation parameters.

It's a little too early to answer the critical questions of "when?" and "how much?" but I wanted to share some info, get some feedback, and see if this project has a chance of making it out of the lab. Also worth mentioning: the original alternate modes (i.e. Spectral Madness) will remain accessible, and third-party firmware such as Parasites and Beat Repeat will be modified to work with Supercell.

If you're interested, please comment with your panel preference or add the module to your ModularGrid rack (aluminum or black matte panel). If you're really interested and want to put down a small deposit to get on the waiting list, visit http://grayscale.info/supercell/ to preorder (fully refundable if you change your mind).
DSC
Like the mods! Nice to see a more fleshed out take of it.
mattcolville
How will you be able to tell which mode you're in? I get a little exasperated with some modules; they have many modes, some hidden, and you can't tell which mode you're in without pressing buttons and in some cases chording buttons or menu diving.
moremagic
this looks way more playable, good job imprving upon a good idea thumbs up
ignatius
i like the idea of this. it may be a hard sell though once whatever mutable has cooking is fully baked.

but overall.. i always thought clouds would be more fun if it was bigger w/more dedicated controls. i've been thinking that more and more lately about a lot of modules.
Timmy
Looking forward to the Magpie Modular alternative panel for this...
xenosapien
those in/out VCAs... we're not worthy

are they "stereo" VCAs, then?
sempervirent
mattcolville wrote:
How will you be able to tell which mode you're in? I get a little exasperated with some modules; they have many modes, some hidden, and you can't tell which mode you're in without pressing buttons and in some cases chording buttons or menu diving.

On the original Clouds, you hold the button to the right of the LEDs for 5 seconds to change modes. The mode is indicated on the LEDs: the first LED indicates the first mode, etc. The current implementation on the Buchla-format SMP module, which will be carried over to Supercell, is similar (though a different switch is used).

I considered adding a new switch with LEDs and panel labels to indicate which mode is active, but that would only apply to the original alternate modes. If you installed an alternate firmware like Parasites, whatever labels are on the panel would no longer apply. The only way to really solve this is to have different front panels for each mode, which is obviously impractical. Having dedicated controls for each parameter does remove the extra layer of abstraction created by the original Blend function, so this approach is less "stateful" than the original.

ignatius wrote:
i like the idea of this. it may be a hard sell though once whatever mutable has cooking is fully baked.

My guess – based on the approach taken with Plaits, and various hints that Olivier has dropped – is that the "New Clouds" will be smaller and simpler. So in theory this concept goes in the opposite direction. Also, the alternate modes offered by Parasites and Beat Repeat are useful, but unlikely to be replicated on a module with fewer controls. Not to mention new alternate firmware that could be developed to take advantage of all the new controls, hmmm...

Timmy wrote:
Looking forward to the Magpie Modular alternative panel for this...

Ha... well played. I see more mandalas in your future.

xenosapien wrote:
those in/out VCAs... we're not worthy

are they "stereo" VCAs, then?

Right, one common VCA input for each of the left/right pairs.
2disbetter
sempervirent wrote:
Not to mention new alternate firmware that could be developed to take advantage of all the new controls, hmmm...


As someone who has replaced Clouds in their rack, I clicked on this thread just because I love your face panel designs, and wanted to see what you'd cooked up. I read through the post and thought it is a well thought out improvement on the controls and adds some interesting functionality as well. BUT, at the cost of the size, I just stopped right about there.

This comment though has peaked my interests again, because the increased controls also make additional functionality and firmwares possible and the import of this cannot be understated.

Are we limited to the same processor and memory limitations of the original?

2d
Chopper
WANT.
cackland
You have my attention indeed!!
forestcaver
Silver panel. I’m definitely interested to build one. I love Clouds but find it too small for its functions - so this would be a dream....
Southfork
I’ll keep my powder dry for now. I’m sure Olivier has something up his sleeve as a clouds replacement. Looks like he upped the arm chip on plaits and will do so on other modules in the future. Love clouds for what it is but just wasn’t enough under the hood to process all those grains.
arcanius
this sounds very interesting, would love to have more control over my clouds Rockin' Banana! This is fun!
nectarios
Just added a uClouds to my factory Clouds but I am interested to know the price for this. Couldn't find anything other than the 100bucks, pre order thingy.
flts
nectarios wrote:
Just added a uClouds to my factory Clouds but I am interested to know the price for this. Couldn't find anything other than the 100bucks, pre order thingy.


From the first post:

"It's too early to answer the critical questions of "when?" and "how much?" but I wanted to share some info, get some feedback, and see if this project has a chance of making it out of the lab."
tbecker
This interface is very nice and has several performance updates such as the blend breakouts which will be great. Two not so easy things I would consider would be (1) the possibilty of some internal random/control cvs normalled to the top row, maybe with a global level over how much is fed into each main parameter (would require updating the code) (2) faster cpu and more ram so you can get more grains than the original at higher sample rates. This might justify the space for me and could provide a longer life for the unit.

Nice work as always!
nectarios
flts wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Just added a uClouds to my factory Clouds but I am interested to know the price for this. Couldn't find anything other than the 100bucks, pre order thingy.


From the first post:

"It's too early to answer the critical questions of "when?" and "how much?" but I wanted to share some info, get some feedback, and see if this project has a chance of making it out of the lab."


My excitement got the better of my reading skills, thanks!
Johnnyfive
This is seriously cool. Since you’re asking for feedback, my preference would be to lose the attenuators and make the whole thing smaller. The main problem with original clouds is lack of simultaneous control of different parameters - when I want to attenuate signals, I patch in an attenuator (that’s the good thing about modular, right?!) However, I am more space conscious than most as I’m limting myself to 7u 104hp. Regardless, this is a great project, and the panel design is beautiful (if a little large for my needs).
Kroaton
I might come across like a bit of an asshole for asking this but here but I see no mention anywhere about this also being open source. How does that work exactly?

It seems like something that you should address clearly, considering the fact that you are using Olivier's work as a basis for your own redesigned/reimagined module (which no doubt also took a substantial amount of time on your part to make and for which you should obviously be remunerated properly for your hard work).

Is it just an oversight or am I missing something?

That being said, this is a very neat adaptation and a welcomed one at that.
hermbot
Quote:
Most open source adaptations of Mutable modules are focused on extreme spatial efficiency, often at the expense of usability, so I thought it would be interesting to go in the opposite direction.


Kudos, I wish more manufacturers did this. If a module needs to be wide, make it W I D E.

What is this, a modular for ants?
Southfork
Kroaton wrote:
I might come across like a bit of an asshole for asking this but here but I see no mention anywhere about this also being open source. How does that work exactly?

It seems like something that you should address clearly, considering the fact that you are using Olivier's work as a basis for your own redesigned/reimagined module (which no doubt also took a substantial amount of time on your part to make and for which you should obviously be remunerated properly for your hard work).

Is it just an oversight or am I missing something?

That being said, this is a very neat adaptation and a welcomed one at that.


I would have thought an oversight. I don’t think Olivier would consult on anything unless the project was completely open source. Looks like it’s still in the planning stage but I’m sure the hardware/software files would be readily available at some point.
dooj88
great name, great concept! i unlike seemingly most people don't mind the button presses for adjusting other parameters or getting to other modes. it's not really that hard. this functionality breakout would be really valuable to me with other settings, as with the default mode i only find myself occasionally wishing i could modulate mix and reverb, when i'm mostly fine with one or the other. but not so much feedback or spread. though having access would open more ease to experimentation..

i'm not all that familiar with the looping delay or pitch shifting, so i don't know what the other pages of parameters do there. but the resonator mode gets used frequently and having access to all pages would be amazing as they all have significant impact on the sound. can't say i want to commit right now, but if i were to i'd prefer gray.

such a functionally dense module deserves a layout with more room to breathe to get the most out of wiggling possibilities. i think this does olivier's work justice.
glennfin
I'd like to place a deposit but not without knowing what the final price will be.

I'll wait. cool
Nino
Johnnyfive wrote:
when I want to attenuate signals, I patch in an attenuator (that’s the good thing about modular, right?!)


I'd like to disagree on that one. Attenuverters on modules are the best thing.
They help a lot to keep your workflow and your visual response straight. I even appreciate them more than the single knobs for each blend mode in this case.
tebs213
Nino wrote:
Johnnyfive wrote:
when I want to attenuate signals, I patch in an attenuator (that’s the good thing about modular, right?!)


I'd like to disagree on that one. Attenuverters on modules are the best thing.
They help a lot to keep your workflow and your visual response straight. I even appreciate them more than the single knobs for each blend mode in this case.


Agreed. Part of what makes Elements such a fantastic and playable modular instrument for example.

Love this design, I think it's a great idea!
DougD
mattcolville wrote:
How will you be able to tell which mode you're in? I get a little exasperated with some modules; they have many modes, some hidden, and you can't tell which mode you're in without pressing buttons and in some cases chording buttons or menu diving.


I agree that having these modes be more easily accessible would be the biggest improvement, it's by far the most annoying aspect of Clouds. Just because there might be an alternate firmware down the line doesn't mean that the regular module shouldn't be made as usable as possible.
resynthesize
this looks great, attenuverters and dedicated blend controls would be really convenient and open up creative patching. my feedback is re: alternate firmware - how much effort is required to port those to this module? as much as I'd love to have this, it would be really tough to give up parasites, or to commit with only a statement of theoretical support at some future date.
lamouette/rck
tbecker wrote:
This interface is very nice and has several performance updates such as the blend breakouts which will be great. Two not so easy things I would consider would be (1) the possibilty of some internal random/control cvs normalled to the top row, maybe with a global level over how much is fed into each main parameter (would require updating the code) (2) faster cpu and more ram so you can get more grains than the original at higher sample rates. This might justify the space for me and could provide a longer life for the unit.

Nice work as always!


+1 too this espacialy the random thing, i would aad that it will have to be cheaper than clouds for what it does !
leeski
wow Wow! Champagne
Hi5
Great idea. Any chance the sampling quality is going up?
listentoaheartbeat
I cannot provide any detail feedback since this happened a long time ago, but when I tried Clouds right after it came out what really put me off was the ranges and feel of the controls.

For lack of a better example, it felt like an Ableton Instrument Rack with some Macros assigned and without proper tuning of the control’s response and range. Maybe worth looking into that, especially since branching out some of the controls might already help with a more direct feel.

Also why not drop the reverb, it does not offer much to have this integrated and would make the concept more focused. I am sure there is a better use for that panel space and processing power.

And can Clouds do rough window functions? I remember wanting to go from smooth washes/clouds to clicky/noisy textures and couldn’t. Maybe I overlooked something back then, but this would also be nice. Bad granular is awesome!
davidjames
Nino wrote:
Johnnyfive wrote:
when I want to attenuate signals, I patch in an attenuator (that’s the good thing about modular, right?!)


I'd like to disagree on that one. Attenuverters on modules are the best thing.
They help a lot to keep your workflow and your visual response straight. I even appreciate them more than the single knobs for each blend mode in this case.


I think some modules benefit more from having CV attenuators, but in general I'm always annoyed when they don't. Subtle modulation is key for the music I make (I'm sure this is the same for many others as well) and this was one reason I parted with Clouds. This, and the other reasons seem to all be taken care of in this design.

+1 for a black panel. I love this concept for all the same reasons already mentioned above. Interested in the idea of processor/grain quality increase, but I'd probably pick this up just for all the workflow improvements.
Futuresound
hermbot wrote:


What is this, a modular for ants?


w00t

I'm 100% in the 'wide modules are great' camp.

I think Supercell is a great idea. I liked the sound of clouds, and some of the results I got out of it were great, but in the end I felt like I was pushing that little button all the time instead of paying attention to the music.

I'd have to add a rack to accommodate this, but a small processing rack on the side doesn't sound so bad...

Depending on the timing I'm like 90-100% in. Alu panel I guess but that's a hard call.
uniquepersonno2
I REALLY like this. Unfortunately size is an issue for me so I'll have to stick with my factory clouds for now, but this looks AWESOME. Great project, I'm definitely tempted to make some space for this as the playability seems like a massive improvement.
mskala
Here's me disappointed this is not about the J-Pop group named "Supercell." Sounds like a good module idea, though.
nectarios
+1 on having attenuverters. Yes modular is about buying an attenuverter module and using that one, but anyone who uses Clouds, knows how handy these are for this module which leads me to the other +1 on big modules that provide attenuverters and make programming/playing the module, a joyful breeze.

I have a few "μ/u" versions of modules, including Clouds, but I would still love having the XXL version too!
flts
mskala wrote:
Here's me disappointed this is not about the J-Pop group named "Supercell."


I'm actually happy this isn't about the Finnish blockbuster mobile game company situated on the other side of the town...
forestcaver
davidjames wrote:

I think some modules benefit more from having CV attenuators, but in general I'm always annoyed when they don't. Subtle modulation is key for the music I make (I'm sure this is the same for many others as well) and this was one reason I parted with Clouds. This, and the other reasons seem to all be taken care of in this design.


Yeah - no attenuation on the Clouds module is a pain for me too - when I got mine, I pretty much immediately built a load of attenuators (2x3 = 4+4 hp + 4hp attenuverter) so Clouds, to me, is already 30hp to be used as I like it....
Ras Thavas
Nino wrote:
Johnnyfive wrote:
when I want to attenuate signals, I patch in an attenuator (that’s the good thing about modular, right?!)


I'd like to disagree on that one. Attenuverters on modules are the best thing.
They help a lot to keep your workflow and your visual response straight. I even appreciate them more than the single knobs for each blend mode in this case.


Ditto this, the "built-in" attenuverters make a big difference in ease of use to me. The only thing that holds me back is I wasn't ultimately satisfied with the grain count on Clouds, if this design had a more powerful processor which could fix that I'd be interested.

Also would agree that if the processor was more powerful, perhaps each attenuverter could have a software random voltage generator (clocked by grain emission rate) normalled to it.
exper
Well hello there thumbs up . That's an interesting take on Clouds Love that the 4 mix functions have been separated. Nice work. Beautiful panel designs as always @sempervirent...
Chopper
An estimation, even a rough one, of thr price is all i need..
Maneville
+1 for the silver.

+1 for the idea that the larger size makes it look much easier to work with. I love my clouds, but once it's patched up, I just let the LFOs, etc., control it, so something making more of the functionality more accessible is going to get my vote.
Shledge
Johnnyfive wrote:
This is seriously cool. Since you’re asking for feedback, my preference would be to lose the attenuators and make the whole thing smaller. The main problem with original clouds is lack of simultaneous control of different parameters - when I want to attenuate signals, I patch in an attenuator (that’s the good thing about modular, right?!) However, I am more space conscious than most as I’m limting myself to 7u 104hp. Regardless, this is a great project, and the panel design is beautiful (if a little large for my needs).


I heard from the grapevine that a 2hp version is coming out
XAXAU
I suggest contacting Matthias Puech and put him on the payroll to make new Parasites for your module.
NekoNeko
Well this exciting, get out of my dreams and into my rack! I love clouds and have two.

The controls for the hidden one knob controls are excellent idea.

Size wise I can live with the bigger size. I'd even make another case to fit in, perhaps even a standalone box.

Attenuverters hmm great but if possible to reduce size without them then I would be happier. Although they look to be a wise use of space that would otherwise be unused. Fits in with the mutable ethos and design.

Input output level big win!

Some possible bonuses could be software lfo that could be normalled to the attenuverters. Bigger grain size to expand the looping side of clouds would amazing.

I'm afraid the preorder/down payment to see the price when ready is a big fat turn off for me. I'm sorry it just is. Even a wide ball park figure would be enough. I understand your reasons for not revealing a guide price though.

Overall count me excited! nanners
thesparkthatthought
This sounds great. You have my attention--and my +$25.
Funky40
+1 on attenuators for GOOD modules. anyway "jammy" ones !

supercell with more beefy CPU than original ?
as it won´t be cheap anyway (me guessing) i think thats a valid thought , not wink

nice to see people taking the risk of developing full fledged and in that sense wide modules.

(the long winded thing as a PM )
Mefistophelees
Kroaton wrote:
I might come across like a bit of an asshole for asking this but here but I see no mention anywhere about this also being open source. How does that work exactly?


It's complicated...

It comes down to what was reused and under which license the original was released.

The software in under an MIT license. You can do pretty much whatever you like with that. You're not required to release any source code or modifications.

The hardware designs are under a different license that does require you to release modifications. However, this only applies if you modify the original designs. If this is a new design it does not apply.
Dcramer
NekoNeko wrote:
Well this exciting, get out of my dreams and into my rack! I love clouds and have two.

The controls for the hidden one knob controls are excellent idea.

Size wise I can live with the bigger size. I'd even make another case to fit in, perhaps even a standalone box.

Attenuverters hmm great but if possible to reduce size without them then I would be happier. Although they look to be a wise use of space that would otherwise be unused. Fits in with the mutable ethos and design.

Overall count me excited! nanners


woah woah
Wow looks twice as big!
Does that mean I’ll need two? Or four? spinning w00t
sackley
Awesome, I've wanted this since seeing the buchla format version and being frustrated with the Clouds layout while I had it. Definitely interested.

I also prefer having attenuverters built into the design.
sempervirent
Just catching up on questions/feedback... but first of all I want to say thanks to those who preordered, and also say thanks to everyone for the good vibes and positive encouragement. Wasn't sure how this announcement would go but I'm glad that people get the point and are willing to make space.

1. MCU/memory upgrades. For now, just to set expectations, assume that the audio quality will be identical to Clouds. But I'm looking into what's possible.

2. Attenuators. These are definitely going to stay... as @forestcaver pointed out, Clouds is not just a slim 16hp when you've got it set up for complex modulation.

3. Internal modulation normalizations. I like this idea a lot, and it sort of addresses the attenuator/size concerns too, because it frees up external modulators and/or allows the module to find a place in smaller systems. Again, just to set expectations, I can't say for sure that this will be part of the initial release, but the necessary hardware changes will be made to support it.

4. Open source. The PCB files will be shared in their native formats. I should have mentioned this in the first post, but assumed that it was implicit, because anything else would not be in compliance with the CC license.

5. Price. Totally understand if people don't want to preorder based on an unknown final cost. As an educated guess, the price will be somewhere between Clouds (obviously Supercell requires more parts and assembly) and Elements (which is also 34hp).

6. Alternative firmware. Matthias has given permission for Parasites specifically, and a couple of people have volunteered to help. Shouldn't be any problem getting the alternate code working with the Supercell hardware.

There were some other suggestions via PM that I'll respond to individually. Thanks again.
Homepage Englisch
tbecker wrote:
This interface is very nice and has several performance updates such as the blend breakouts which will be great. Two not so easy things I would consider would be (1) the possibilty of some internal random/control cvs normalled to the top row, maybe with a global level over how much is fed into each main parameter (would require updating the code) (2) faster cpu and more ram so you can get more grains than the original at higher sample rates. This might justify the space for me and could provide a longer life for the unit.

Nice work as always!


This. Thousand times this.

Internal S&H/LFO.

I know, one of the resons why Olivier was unhappy with Clouds boils down to listening to people's complaints about muddy sound, while not using external modulation sources, and saying "it's a unit for a modular, it should be modulated externally", but...

The majority of phaser effects, even those in modular world have an internal LFO. If they don't, they will be modulated by an external one.

But we know phasers. They're part of music for 40+ years.

Clouds is new.* I guarantee if it came out with an internal modulation source, it would have been much bigger success. I guess the reason for it's tremenduous popularity but also for love-hate relationship is this newness, the unknown, the hint of absolutely fabulous sound-mangling but not quite knowing how to get there, or envisioning that exact "there".

I'm way off topic now. Point being, internal modulation is welcome.

__
(New-ish. I know, granular synthesis has been around for a while. But Clouds was the first to break the granular ice in modular community just as DX7 was first to break the digital ice among keyboards, even if it wasn't exactly first digital synth.)
Puscha
sempervirent wrote:

1. MCU/memory upgrades. For now, just to set expectations, assume that the audio quality will be identical to Clouds. But I'm looking into what's possible.

2. Attenuators. These are definitely going to stay... as @forestcaver pointed out, Clouds is not just a slim 16hp when you've got it set up for complex modulation.

3. Internal modulation normalizations. I like this idea a lot, and it sort of addresses the attenuator/size concerns too, because it frees up external modulators and/or allows the module to find a place in smaller systems. Again, just to set expectations, I can't say for sure that this will be part of the initial release, but the necessary hardware changes will be made to support it.


Woooo! These three points make it very appealing to me. Modulation normalization is a rad idea. I really hope that the memory can be updated, but if not I agree wholeheartedly with listentoaheartbeat:

listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Also why not drop the reverb, it does not offer much to have this integrated and would make the concept more focused. I am sure there is a better use for that panel space and processing power.


I also don't think that the reverb is entirely necessary to keep. Sure it can be useful, especially in very small systems, but more processing power for granular effects (and even longer loops?) would be way more useful than something that can easily be found in many other ways. It could make this module slightly smaller too.

I have also made a deposit cool
beliefsystemrecords
IS this going to be available as a pcb only?
neonmercury1
i was very excited to see the Buchla version of this and was hoping that someday it would be realized in euro format. i feel this adds what i felt was lacking from the OG release. that said i think my purchase would depend on what oliver has cooking...
peteone
So I was just looking at panels on grayscale, saw supercell read the whole thing and pre-ordered . When is this coming out?
sempervirent
Puscha wrote:
I also don't think that the reverb is entirely necessary to keep. Sure it can be useful, especially in very small systems, but more processing power for granular effects (and even longer loops?) would be way more useful than something that can easily be found in many other ways. It could make this module slightly smaller too.

The layout is mostly dictated by the spacing of the five knobs at the top (the core parameters) so the presence/absence of the Reverb knob doesn't really shift the spatial balance significantly. Also, with a higher-spec MCU, removing the reverb wouldn't be required to achieve something like longer recording buffers. I think the reverb algorithm sounds very good and there aren't a lot of compact reverb options in Euro anyway, so it was a good inclusion on Olivier's part, and it's something I want to keep for Supercell.

beliefsystemrecords wrote:
IS this going to be available as a pcb only?

Haven't really thought about DIY options yet, the immediate goal is to get the hardware fully validated and offer assembled modules.

peteone wrote:
So I was just looking at panels on grayscale, saw supercell read the whole thing and pre-ordered. When is this coming out?

Thanks a lot... Muff's Law dictates that announcing a release date ahead of time ensures that unforeseen circumstances will delay the release, but mid/late spring (May/June) isn't out of the question.
desdinova
Synapse changed my workflow. Got a DAO on order, excited for your expanded turing module and will probably jump on a pre-order for this in black. You're killing it dude, keep it up :v
jimfowler
I’ll hold off on building my diy clouds in hopes that this becomes available as a pcb/panel.
mirth23
This looks really fantastic! I was wiggling with a Clouds live a few weeks back and this overcomes a lot of my annoyances. Supercell also won't really take up much extra space in my rack if I kick out the attenuators that I need to dedicate to Clouds.
dooj88
sempervirent wrote:
Puscha wrote:
I also don't think that the reverb is entirely necessary to keep. Sure it can be useful, especially in very small systems, but more processing power for granular effects (and even longer loops?) would be way more useful than something that can easily be found in many other ways. It could make this module slightly smaller too.

The layout is mostly dictated by the spacing of the five knobs at the top (the core parameters) so the presence/absence of the Reverb knob doesn't really shift the spatial balance significantly. Also, with a higher-spec MCU, removing the reverb wouldn't be required to achieve something like longer recording buffers. I think the reverb algorithm sounds very good and there aren't a lot of compact reverb options in Euro anyway, so it was a good inclusion on Olivier's part, and it's something I want to keep for Supercell.


yeah i think the verb sounds great too. you can't control the room size, but clouds is a granular module, the reverb is a really nice extra feature.
mün
This looks exciting! w00t
What about separate feedback ins and outs?
Would this be possible/make sense?
sempervirent
Interesting idea, but it's a bit beyond the core concept, and it's also something that could be patched up externally in a more flexible way.

A few details have changed since the thread was started (the renderings in the first post have been updated):
  • The 1V/Oct input is now on the left side, and the Pitch input on the bottom row is now a linear (rather than exponential) CV input with an attenuverter. So all nine CV inputs now have the same range, which should provide a bit more flexibility. If the 1V/Oct input is used simultaneously with the Pitch CV input, the voltages will be summed.
  • The new AUX input distributes a single modulation signal to all unpatched CV inputs on the bottom row. The attenuverter knobs can be used to control the level/polarity of that signal as it's routed to each parameter. If a CV input is patched, the AUX signal will be bypassed for that parameter.
  • If nothing is patched into the AUX input, an internal random source will be normalized to any unpatched CV inputs. The attenuverters can be used to set the modulation level.
  • Mute switches for the input and output stereo pairs have been added to provide some extra performance controls.

That's it for now... the hardware is moving forward with this feature set.
dooj88
sempervirent wrote:
Interesting idea, but it's a bit beyond the core concept, and it's also something that could be patched up externally in a more flexible way.

A few details have changed since the thread was started (the renderings in the first post have been updated):
  • The 1V/Oct input is now on the left side, and the Pitch input on the bottom row is now a linear (rather than exponential) CV input with an attenuverter. So all nine CV inputs now have the same range, which should provide a bit more flexibility. If the 1V/Oct input is used simultaneously with the Pitch CV input, the voltages will be summed.
  • The new AUX input distributes a single modulation signal to all unpatched CV inputs on the bottom row. The attenuverter knobs can be used to control the level/polarity of that signal as it's routed to each parameter. If a CV input is patched, the AUX signal will be bypassed for that parameter.
  • If nothing is patched into the AUX input, an internal random source will be normalized to any unpatched CV inputs. The attenuverters can be used to set the modulation level.
  • Mute switches for the input and output stereo pairs have been added to provide some extra performance controls.

That's it for now... the hardware is moving forward with this feature set.


well done!! fantastic revisions!

love applause applause
Tboy
I’m curious to know if the memory will be upgraded, couldn’t find any information about this unfortunately...
sempervirent
Posted above:

sempervirent wrote:
MCU/memory upgrades. For now, just to set expectations, assume that the audio quality will be identical to Clouds. But I'm looking into what's possible.


That was written about two months ago... I'd make the same statement today. With the current hardware spec it might be possible to increase the sampling frequency but a buffer length of more than 8 seconds is not on the menu. Since Clouds isn't really a sampler/recorder in the traditional sense, I'm fine with that limitation.
Tboy
Cheers for responding Sempervirent, I indeed read your previous post, hoping to hear otherwise two months later hihi
uniquepersonno2
Any updates on this? I'm really excited to see this once it's all finished!
Homepage Englisch
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?
helix
Looks great! I like it being more hands on. Menu's kind of take away the whole hands on point of eurorack/analog synthesis for me
helix
Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?


A detent in the middle would make most sense
xenosapien
helix wrote:
Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?


A detent in the middle would make most sense


I have yet to see minishaft-pots with center detents.

Don´t think that´s gonna happen.

Your best bet would probably the "zero point" since that can/is implemented in the software side, if I remember Olivier´s original remarks about this on his products...
euxine
xenosapien wrote:
helix wrote:
Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?


A detent in the middle would make most sense


I have yet to see minishaft-pots with center detents.

Don´t think that´s gonna happen.


The Frap Tools CGM mix series has mini pots with centre detent for panning. Of course, the accuracy of these isn't perfect, but I tend to re-balance stereo signals from modular anyway...
sempervirent
uniquepersonno2 wrote:
Any updates on this? I'm really excited to see this once it's all finished!

Still in prototyping mode... working through some of the firmware changes.

Homepage Englisch wrote:
Those attenuverters are a fiddly thing, but that's something we have to live with in eurorack world. Will there be a "wide" zero-point?

That was one concern that I had when considering internally-normalized modulations, but the added utility of bipolar attenuators seemed worth it. On modules like Elements (which has roughly the same number of attenuverters) I haven't found it particularly difficult to zero out external CVs.

xenosapien wrote:
Your best bet would probably the "zero point" since that can/is implemented in the software side, if I remember Olivier´s original remarks about this on his products...

I think the original Braids used center-detent pots but later modules do not. IIRC the issue was that the mechanical detent does not match the true center of the range due to variations in potentiometer tolerances. So you could set the pots to the mechanical center but they're not really zeroed out.
realitycontrol
Looks great to me.
I believe the additional features justify the extra size and I'd want to replace my standard sized clouds with this.
If I had a preference it would be for a silver panel, and I'd want to build it myself from a PCB & Panel combo!
xenosapien
sempervirent wrote:
xenosapien wrote:
Your best bet would probably the "zero point" since that can/is implemented in the software side, if I remember Olivier´s original remarks about this on his products...

I think the original Braids used center-detent pots but later modules do not. IIRC the issue was that the mechanical detent does not match the true center of the range due to variations in potentiometer tolerances. So you could set the pots to the mechanical center but they're not really zeroed out.


exactly this is the case with my O.G. Braids.
FM and Timbre Attenuverters both do not zero out completely at their detents.

I think there was a way to recalibrate that, can´t remember how though... should take a look at that manual.

either way, it is not a dealbreaker for me. If I don´t want modulation, I´m not plugging anything in. then again, I never do "precise" stuff... could be bad if you actually know what you´r doing... wink
resynthesize
euxine wrote:


The Frap Tools CGM mix series has mini pots with centre detent for panning. Of course, the accuracy of these isn't perfect, but I tend to re-balance stereo signals from modular anyway...


the WMD performance mixer has these too and I hate them. Nothing worse than recording a track off the modular only to find out that the kick is slightly off center. I've gotten in the habit of individually checking the center-panned channels on a software meter before trying to record a take and adjusting them as needed. The other problem with the center detent is that the knob tends to want to snap to the detent when you're close to it, another annoying issue when trying to get panning dead center.
roycepope
Really looking forward to this! Thanks so much! applause
sempervirent


Almost ready for liftoff, here are the prototype units that are on their way to beta testers. Will announce exact pricing and ETA soon but expect the final price to be in the $400-500 range.

Preorder here to reserve a module from the first batch: http://grayscale.info/supercell/
exper
applause beautiful!
khyber
Very nice work here Guinness ftw!
strangegravity
Nice! I sold my Clouds because I couldn't figure it out. I know how to use this thing just by looing at the panel.
davidjames
sempervirent wrote:

[*]The new AUX input distributes a single modulation signal to all unpatched CV inputs on the bottom row. The attenuverter knobs can be used to control the level/polarity of that signal as it's routed to each parameter. If a CV input is patched, the AUX signal will be bypassed for that parameter.
[*]If nothing is patched into the AUX input, an internal random source will be normalized to any unpatched CV inputs. The attenuverters can be used to set the modulation level.


Can you confirm these two made it into the final build? I don't see it noted in the features list on the site. Either way, congrats on getting this project to beta! Looking forward to having some clouds back in my life w00t
sempervirent
Thanks for the compliments!

davidjames wrote:
Can you confirm these two made it into the final build? I don't see it noted in the features list on the site.

Yes, glad you asked because the Supercell preview page was also lacking a couple of other additions that were made after the initial announcement. The text has been updated to include the full feature list and a few clarifications.
forestcaver
Looking forward to playing with one ! Good job !
resynthesize
sempervirent wrote:


Almost ready for liftoff, here are the prototype units that are on their way to beta testers. Will announce exact pricing and ETA soon but expect the final price to be in the $400-500 range.

Preorder here to reserve a module from the first batch: http://grayscale.info/supercell/


Congrats, really excited for this - any update on running parasites with supercell?
sempervirent
It's possible that Parasites will be ready by the time the modules are shipping. My own baseline for the release is to have the original code ported, which is mostly completed at this point. Supercell will use the audio bootloader, just like Clouds, so it will be easy to install whichever firmware you prefer.
Alexander Kuznetsov
Is there any new info?
synkrotron
Interest piqued... Not sure about pre-order...

I promised myself that I would wait for the next MI version and I would need a new case to put this thing in......... Much to think about...
batch
Any update? I have a preorder in.
sempervirent
Supercell is in production now. The price is $465 USD with an ETA of late September.

Preorder here to reserve a module from the first batch: http://grayscale.info/supercell/

If you've preordered before today, I'll be following up with you by email with next steps.
batch
Yeah!
createsounds
could someone
explain this briefly to me?


"An internal noise source is normalized to all unpatched modulation parameters"


benefits drawbacks etc..
kinda having Zeroth moment
batch
it’s like having a random s&h patched to all the modulators. And given they have attenuverters you can turn this off easily.
sempervirent
Thanks @Armstrb... that's correct... if any of the nine modulation inputs on the bottom of the module don't have something else plugged in, those parameters will be modulated by an internal random source. The modulation depth can be set with the attenuverters. The random CV is generated in code and passed from the DAC to each of the modulation inputs.

If you want the same behavior (1:9 CV distribution) but don't want to use the internal random source, patch something into AUX and it will replace the internal modulation for all unpatched parameters.

Benefits? Self-wiggling module. Saves patch cables. Frees up other modules to do other things.

Drawbacks? None, really... you can enable/disable this feature completely by pressing both mute switches for a few seconds.

Why a random source and not something else? In Olivier's words:

pichenettes wrote:
Sadly, many people don't understand the principle of granular synthesis and don't feed a modulated/attenuated random source to Clouds' parameters. Without modulation, Clouds will just superimpose various repetitions of the incoming audio signal, which produces a muddy, "bad random reverb" sound - since all the grains have the same pitch, size, envelope and are playing the same content. With feedback on, this causes all kinds of phase cancellations - akin to comb filtering - it truly behaves like the kind of effect that reverb designers strive to eliminate from their designs. The "grain cloud" sound will come from feeding random sources (or sequences, or fast LFOs) to the CV inputs - which will ensure that each grain will be slightly different from its peers. It seems that relatively few people ever do that.
sempervirent
Update... front panels have been delivered and assembly is being completed this week. Should be able to start shipping preorders next week.

If you haven't received a link to pay the balance of your preorder yet, please send a PM with your email address.
forestcaver
I cant see the files on the greyscalemodular github. Am I looking in the right place? Keen to see what changes you’ve made!
dronetaco
sempervirent wrote:
Update... front panels have been delivered and assembly is being completed this week. Should be able to start shipping preorders next week.

If you haven't received a link to pay the balance of your preorder yet, please send a PM with your email address.


applause so excited for this one!! Thanks for the update!

The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense
Musicartgeek
sempervirent wrote:
Update... front panels have been delivered and assembly is being completed this week. Should be able to start shipping preorders next week.

If you haven't received a link to pay the balance of your preorder yet, please send a PM with your email address.


Rockin' Banana!
applause
hyper
tau_seti
Any progress with the assembly and shipping?
sempervirent
Assembly is finished and the modules are in transit now, will start shipping preorders ASAP. Apologies to all for the delays. It will be worth the wait.
tau_seti
I'm sure. Thanks, cat-pal!
omorange
sempervirent wrote:
Assembly is finished and the modules are in transit now, will start shipping preorders ASAP. Apologies to all for the delays. It will be worth the wait.


just came to double check too! Do you send out shipment notifications? hell i think i only live about 20 mins from you, I could just drop by (but maybe you're not into that and I totally understand)
sempervirent
It's shipping time! Gotta say, the black units look particularly sweet.

This first batch has almost sold out, there are only a few units not reserved so please preorder here if you want one. A second batch is in the works but it will be 4-8 weeks before they are ready.

@omorange I will send you a PM but yes, when shipping labels are created, an email is sent out with tracking info.

DSC
sempervirent wrote:
It's shipping time! Gotta say, the black units look particularly sweet.



Yes, it does! Very Tempting!
DabiDabDab
Release the files! NOW!
Musicartgeek
It's on the way! Thanks for the good communication throughout.
resynthesize
got mine today, initial feedback: fantastic! the internal noise source normalizations really open up the tried and true clouds algorithims, build quality is really nice. I sold my og clouds when supercell was announced so it was fun to start rediscovering it with a new twist. Nice work grayscale!
sempervirent
DabiDabDab wrote:
Release the files! NOW!

I know the DIY types are eager to start selling clones on Reverb or whatever, but please be patient, the source files will be released eventually.

Musicartgeek wrote:
It's on the way! Thanks for the good communication throughout.

And thank you. Many of the preorders have been shipped, still have some to catch up on over the next few days.

resynthesize wrote:
got mine today, initial feedback: fantastic! the internal noise source normalizations really open up the tried and true clouds algorithims, build quality is really nice. I sold my og clouds when supercell was announced so it was fun to start rediscovering it with a new twist. Nice work grayscale!

Wow, that was fast. Glad you're enjoying it. By the way the manual is online now: https://grayscale.info/supercell/

Assuming that none of the pending preorders are canceled, this batch has sold out as of today. Preorder at the link above to reserve a module from the next batch, probably looking at a late November / early December timeframe.

Also the process of getting Parasites ported to Supercell is underway now that the code base is stable.
MattyFYS
What is the last the first batch will be sent out??? Just trying to figure out if I’ll be home the except the package. Really looking forward to mine.
bobbcorr
Congratulations on getting this out the door! Can we look forward to some demos?
forestcaver
sempervirent wrote:
DabiDabDab wrote:
Release the files! NOW!

I know the DIY types are eager to start selling clones on Reverb or whatever, but please be patient, the source files will be released eventually.


I have no interest in making money from Olivier’s designs and would never sell an MI board or complete DIY MI module. I’ve also never sold anything on reverb. I would not want to profit from the work of others. Hence I resent that implication and find it a bit offensive that you think that those who are keen on open source only want to profit from other people’'s work...

My interest is purely to see the hardware modifications to learn from (as per Olivier’s intentions) - I can see a few possibilities that you’ve chosen and am keen to know what you’ve done, which under cc-by-sa are supposed to be released. After thinking about this module, I probably won’t be building one anyway but am very keen to see the files....

I didn’t realise the under the cc-by-sa licence you could choose if and when “eventually” you choose to release them... doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of cc-by-sa - that’s a new one on me :-)

Best of luck with your module...

Ps I know Olivier probably doesn’t care but I care about open source and hence care about this...
bemerritt
forestcaver wrote:
sempervirent wrote:
DabiDabDab wrote:
Release the files! NOW!

I know the DIY types are eager to start selling clones on Reverb or whatever, but please be patient, the source files will be released eventually.


I have no interest in making money from Olivier’s designs and would never sell an MI board or complete DIY MI module. I’ve also never sold anything on reverb. I would not want to profit from the work of others. Hence I resent that implication and find it a bit offensive that you think that those who are keen on open source only want to profit from other people’'s work...

My interest is purely to see the hardware modifications to learn from (as per Olivier’s intentions) - I can see a few possibilities that you’ve chosen and am keen to know what you’ve done, which under cc-by-sa are supposed to be released. After thinking about this module, I probably won’t be building one anyway but am very keen to see the files....

I didn’t realise the under the cc-by-sa licence you could choose if and when “eventually” you choose to release them... doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of cc-by-sa - that’s a new one on me :-)

Best of luck with your module...

Ps I know Olivier probably doesn’t care but I care about open source and hence care about this...


Agreed. Did the dual braids buchla module files ever get released?

edit: looks like i found the board and schematic files on grayscales github. Im not completely in the know of how the license works, but does it include firmware or just the hardware?
forestcaver
Firmware is mit licence, hardware is cc-by-sa-3.0
sempervirent
MattyFYS wrote:
What is the last the first batch will be sent out??? Just trying to figure out if I’ll be home the except the package. Really looking forward to mine.

Thanks for getting one. All existing orders will be shipped by the end of this week.

bobbcorr wrote:
Congratulations on getting this out the door! Can we look forward to some demos?

Yes, doing demos is my Achilles' heel (always busy with other things) but it seems that a few others are working on demos. The upgrades are mostly related to usability so from a DSP perspective it will sound like any of the Clouds demos that are out there.

forestcaver wrote:
I have no interest in making money from Olivier’s designs and would never sell an MI board or complete DIY MI module. I’ve also never sold anything on reverb. I would not want to profit from the work of others. Hence I resent that implication and find it a bit offensive that you think that those who are keen on open source only want to profit from other people’'s work...

No offense intended of course but given that you're a member of a certain Facebook group known for doing huge group buys of certain open-source PCBs, you can't be unaware that your personal position on selling clones (or miniaturized derivatives of currently-available modules) is not widely held. Olivier has stated that he does not care, but he doesn't publish source files for new module releases on day one either, and there are good reasons for that.

forestcaver wrote:
I didn’t realise the under the cc-by-sa licence you could choose if and when “eventually” you choose to release them... doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of cc-by-sa - that’s a new one on me :-)

CC is an alternative to traditional copyright, and copyright only applies to things that can be copyrighted (such as photos, music, etc). The technical details of schematics, board layouts, etc cannot be copyrighted (implementations are covered by patents, not copyrights). Because of this, the CC organization specifically does not recommend using a CC license for hardware. See this link for further discussion about CC as it relates to open hardware projects.

That said, the "spirit" of the license (as you say) does matter and obviously this project would be less likely to exist if the original hardware files for Clouds had not been published. That's why I've committed to releasing the source files but the vagaries of CC are not relevant to the timing.

bemerritt wrote:
edit: looks like i found the board and schematic files on grayscales github. Im not completely in the know of how the license works, but does it include firmware or just the hardware?

As @forestcaver mentions, the firmware is covered by the MIT License, which puts no restrictions on use or publishing changes. But the DAO uses the stock firmware anyway so there were no changes to publish.
forestcaver
sempervirent wrote:
MattyFYS wrote:
What is the last the first batch will be sent out??? Just trying to figure out if I’ll be home the except the package. Really looking forward to mine.

Thanks for getting one. All existing orders will be shipped by the end of this week.

bobbcorr wrote:
Congratulations on getting this out the door! Can we look forward to some demos?

Yes, doing demos is my Achilles' heel (always busy with other things) but it seems that a few others are working on demos. The upgrades are mostly related to usability so from a DSP perspective it will sound like any of the Clouds demos that are out there.

forestcaver wrote:
I have no interest in making money from Olivier’s designs and would never sell an MI board or complete DIY MI module. I’ve also never sold anything on reverb. I would not want to profit from the work of others. Hence I resent that implication and find it a bit offensive that you think that those who are keen on open source only want to profit from other people’'s work...

No offense intended of course but given that you're a member of a certain Facebook group known for doing huge group buys of certain open-source PCBs, you can't be unaware that your personal position on selling clones (or miniaturized derivatives of currently-available modules) is not widely held.


Cheers for replying - I appreciate it.

(Just for clarity - as you are in the same fb group, you can see from my past posts that for all the panels and pcbs I have had made, I have given away for free any spare ones that I haven’t used and refused to take money for them. I really do strongly believe in open hardware and software and free information.... I’m a real hippy about it....)
dronetaco
Had 20 minutes with it last night and it blew my mind. I’ll try to get something worthy of posting tonight. Gorgeous sound and quite easy and intuitive to use. I’ve actually never owned a clouds but immediately started getting incredible sounds and clarity of the algorithms out of it. Ace!



Driscol
How can you belittle people, saying they are eager to start selling clones on reverb, when they ask for files, when your own thing is in reality a clone? You added separate controls over modes? Is this supposed to be innovation, something new on its own?

You claim "obviously this project would be less likely to exist if the original hardware files for Clouds had not been published". No, it wouldnt exist, period. Not less likely, no nothing, it wouldnt exist. Thats why i dont even know how you have the guts to come out saying you are just copying the mode of production Olivier choose with delaying the open sourcing like you are on the same footing somehow.

What tops it then is that you actually copy a design that was put out under a certain licence, add on the surface modifications and then come out saying that that licence is not really suitable for this type of intellectual work and so you dont have to release under it or if you do release that you decide when that happens. Thats seriously twisted.

In reality i dont care one way or another but everyone has put the files out for their variations, be it, Blue Lantern, neutron micros and and as far as i d say also Northern modular. And all of their changes were surface modifications as is yours. And while some have tried to do the new model with preorders that still seems to be somewhat fair the fact that you dont want to release files now when the machine is released is pretty pathetic if you ask me.
natureclubcassettes
dronetaco wrote:
Had 20 minutes with it last night and it blew my mind. I’ll try to get something worthy of posting tonight. Gorgeous sound and quite easy and intuitive to use. I’ve actually never owned a clouds but immediately started getting incredible sounds and clarity of the algorithms out of it. Ace!





sorry for ignorance and not to derail, but is that a verbos multi-delay plus supercell???? that would be delay city if so (and I thought I had a delay problem.......)
sempervirent
Trolling from a brand new account... impressive.

I've said all that I will say on this subject.
mskala
Driscol wrote:
everyone has put the files out for their variations, be it, Blue Lantern, neutron micros and and as far as i d say also Northern modular. And all of their changes were surface modifications as is yours.


The only "Northern Modular" I can find on the Net seems to be a Reverb dealer and not a manufacturer at all. If you mean North Coast, my designs are original, not "surface modifications" of anyone else's.
sempervirent
natureclubcassettes wrote:
sorry for ignorance and not to derail, but is that a verbos multi-delay plus supercell???? that would be delay city if so (and I thought I had a delay problem.......)

That's the Bark Filter (based on the Buchla 296).
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/verbos-electronics-bark-filter-processor
Brennanib
Wow just seeing this and al I can say is woah I really could use this with like everything

Loving the layout by the way and the overall idea of this!

pbear :(
pld
mskala wrote:
The only "Northern Modular" I can find on the Net seems to be a Reverb dealer and not a manufacturer at all. If you mean North Coast, my designs are original, not "surface modifications" of anyone else's.

Perhaps Northern Light Modular?
forestcaver
I personally think it’s a shame commercial companies think it is acceptable to take an open source design, make minor changes and then sell it without releasing the sources as per the intention of the licence.

It’d be a shame for the open source community if other companies thought the same. I presume you’d also think it acceptable if, for example, a very large company that has recently started selling eurorack modules, cloned marbles under a different name and panel design, made minor changes and sold it without releasing the source changes? (Apart from a vague promise to “eventually” do so after they have made what they deem to be sufficient profit). If you dont think this is acceptable, why not?

It’s a small community and self-policing. If others think it’s acceptable, so be it. But I suspect some others may feel as I do that it does not feel good and will make future buying decisions accordingly. It actually makes me pretty sad (not cross or angry). There are other clouds-derived modules on the way with similar ui changes which will be open....

From a practical point of view, keeping the sources closed prevents people fixing their own modules or changing the firmware, adapting it to parasites, kammerl, etc. It completely ties them into a closed source world.

Anyway, it’s a better ui than original clouds and has many nice ideas. I suspect it would stand on its own two feet without the protectionism. Good luck and best wishes.
ayruos
Just chiming in here, Ollivier is free to do as he pleases, release designs after the first run or never release it - he's under no obligations as he's designing everything from the ground up. Until he releases it under any sort of license, it is closed source and it is entirely his decision what he wants to do with it.

When doing derivations from open source designs, it's always best practice to fork the project from the repository and pushing changes to your fork publicly for every little thing you do. That's the spirit of open source.

Personally, I don't care much - and I think Ollivier doesn't either. But irrespective of whether someone is doing a manufacturing run, limited or otherwise, it's always best practise to work in that way. If they're confident of their workmanship, they should also be confident that people will buy from the source and not build it for themselves/others. And even if they do - that's something that's beyond their control, if you're joining the open source club, you can't have it both ways.

Peace.
pld
From a practical point of view, there are also completely benign reasons for not releasing files immediately: fixing known bugs, cleaning up, or documentation.

While there are some on both sides, not everyone is a bad actor and there are a lot grey "it depends" areas, so the (seemingly invariably) black and white dogmatic discussions are totally pointless. Throwing around unquantified terms like "minor changes" or "superficial" isn't particularly helpful either -- it's always easy to downplay the effort needed to do something. Just because it looks simple doesn't make it easy or, more importantly, without costs. From where I'm sitting at least the "self-policing community" is pretty lopsided, and not(*) in a way I think is beneficial.

But on a brighter note: I got a heck of lot further with this UI than ever before smile Maybe that will transfer back somehow...


(*) edit: derp!
forestcaver
I understand where you are coming from Patrick and I appreciate what you’ve done for open source. From my point of view, I think that it is really important to honour the spirit of the licence. The reason being I think that better modules and software derive from open source. Once you start bending the spirit of open source licences (and look for loopholes) for commercial gain then everyone is the poorer.

Fair comment on the “minor changes” and apologies - I wasn’t thinking how it would come across when I wrote that.
GNU and GPL (which is the world I was most familiar with) certainly encourages people to make money and recoup costs and I am happy to admit that nothing we do is without cost that people should be allowed to recoup.

I personally have bought more Mutable Instruments modules purely because they are open source and I could try them on VCV Rack first and look at the schematics. I have bought them because it made me feel better “donating” to MI (even if Olivier doesn’t care about donations), even if I then went on and built another one for the fun of it. I hope and believe I am not alone in doing this. I’ve started designing my own modules and firmware based on the MI schematics and code in a very minor way, which I wouldn’t have done without Olivier’s generosity.
(Ps. When I bought an o_C pcb, I also spoke to Mxmxmx ages ago and bought one from him to ensure a donation to the o_C project, which I wouldn’t have done if it wasn’t open source)

For me a lot of the pleasure is in looking at the code and hardware and playing with it. I’ve learnt an awful lot from it being open sourced.

The implication from sempervirent is that the sources have not been released yet to prevent people selling clones, with comparison made to Olivier’s delay (which is not comparable for reasons above).

I haven’t seen claims that it has not been released because it is buggy or needs cleaning up. Is that the case?
pld
No doubt open source is hugely beneficial for the greater good (the greater goood). I don't know where the quality vs. OS causality or correlation lies or if it's just some kind of selection bias (although there are a lot of craptacular open source projects smile). You're probably right in that a search for loopholes (loopholery? loopholing?) and skirting the rules isn't a great way to set up a stable system. Vaguely thinking, relying on "spirit of the license" and "intent" might be leaving too much room for interpretation, but I wouldn't necessarily want a push to make everything 100% airtight either -- it's getting from (say) 80/20 to 99/1 that the diminishing returns tend to make things take a turn for the worse. Maybe I just naturally give people who are putting in some own effort a lot more leeway (or even leeway proportional to effort), especially for projects that are no longer being sold by the original developer. So it irks me when they get made out to be the bad guys, but meanwhile, others are just dumping 1:1 copies; and without some kind of protectionism, the chances of recouping costs tend rapidly to zero. And it's all a somewhat slippery slope anyway because different people place way different value on their time, which is hard to factor into the equation.
Maybe it's already as good as it gets, maybe there's a happier middle. Dunno.

Quote:
I personally have bought more Mutable Instruments modules purely because they are open source and I could try them on VCV Rack first and look at the schematics. I have bought them because it made me feel better “donating” to MI (even if Olivier doesn’t care about donations), even if I then went on and built another one for the fun of it. I hope and believe I am not alone in doing this. I’ve started designing my own modules and firmware based on the MI schematics and code in a very minor way, which I wouldn’t have done without Olivier’s generosity.

100% agree, Olivier is doing great and inspirational things.
But also, not everyone is, wants or has the means to be Olivier, nor should we necessarily expect them to smile

Quote:
I haven’t seen claims that it has not been released because it is buggy or needs cleaning up. Is that the case?

To clarify: I just meant in general, and wasn't claiming it's the case here. I certainly wasn't saying that the current code is buggy smile
As far as I'm concerned there's no need to pressure for immediate release, nor need reasons be given.

Anyway, thanks for the reasonable response. I'd suggest that if anyone wants to continue OS discussions, move it elsewhere or PM and free the space for demos smile
mskala
pld wrote:
mskala wrote:
The only "Northern Modular" I can find on the Net seems to be a Reverb dealer and not a manufacturer at all. If you mean North Coast, my designs are original, not "surface modifications" of anyone else's.

Perhaps Northern Light Modular?


Yeah, that's probably who they had in mind.
forestcaver
pld wrote:
Vaguely thinking, relying on "spirit of the license" and "intent" might be leaving too much room for interpretation, but I wouldn't necessarily want a push to make everything 100% airtight either

<snip>

So it irks me when they get made out to be the bad guys, but meanwhile, others are just dumping 1:1 copies;

<snip>

I'd suggest that if anyone wants to continue OS discussions, move it elsewhere or PM and free the space for demos smile


I think the only way these licences work is by community consent - no-one is realistically going to get a legal recourse. The only court that is valid for these sorts of licences is the court of public opinion... which is why I feel strongly about respecting the spirit of the licences...

Happy to leave it there :-) (I’ve probably said enough !) Thanks for a good-natured debate..... :-)

Good luck with the module sempervirent. All the best...
Struggle
I’m not sure why, but I preordered mine from Perfect Circuit. Hope to get shipping notification soon!!
tbecker
forestcaver wrote:
I personally think it’s a shame commercial companies think it is acceptable to take an open source design, make minor changes and then sell it without releasing the sources as per the intention of the licence.

It’d be a shame for the open source community if other companies thought the same. I presume you’d also think it acceptable if, for example, a very large company that has recently started selling eurorack modules, cloned marbles under a different name and panel design, made minor changes and sold it without releasing the source changes? (Apart from a vague promise to “eventually” do so after they have made what they deem to be sufficient profit). If you dont think this is acceptable, why not?

It’s a small community and self-policing. If others think it’s acceptable, so be it. But I suspect some others may feel as I do that it does not feel good and will make future buying decisions accordingly. It actually makes me pretty sad (not cross or angry). There are other clouds-derived modules on the way with similar ui changes which will be open....

From a practical point of view, keeping the sources closed prevents people fixing their own modules or changing the firmware, adapting it to parasites, kammerl, etc. It completely ties them into a closed source world.

Anyway, it’s a better ui than original clouds and has many nice ideas. I suspect it would stand on its own two feet without the protectionism. Good luck and best wishes.


I have yet to see any MI derived module that is anything other than downsized. In other words adding several attenuverters and extra controls seems simple, right? But my point is that no one else has done what the supercell has, adding many extra needed controls. So in so many ways than one, this is not a micro clouds but has some real thought and vision to the UI. That said only the original auther can exercise right to a licsense. The fact that MI gave up code and files is why we are looking at the supercell now and it looks really good to me!
Zymos
Blue Lantern Basics adds CV to all of Peaks' knobs and extra bipolar outputs. I think I saw a version of Rings that was expanded somehow also.
tdball
Any news on parasites support?
circuitburst
FYI, I'm happy to see both black and aluminum versions in stock at Perfect Circuit now! Congrats on getting Supercell released!
https://www.perfectcircuit.com/grayscale-supercell-black.html
https://www.perfectcircuit.com/grayscale-supercell-aluminum.html
gummyboy
How does it sound?
Is it less muddy or clearer?

Does it use same 32kHz SR?
sempervirent
tdball wrote:
Any news on parasites support?

That's up to @pld but I think it's getting close.

circuitburst wrote:
FYI, I'm happy to see both black and aluminum versions in stock at Perfect Circuit now!

Thanks, meant to post this earlier. Signal Sounds (Glasgow UK) will soon have some units in stock as well.

Those are the last units from the first batch. Second batch is in the works, ETA is probably January.

gummyboy wrote:
How does it sound?
Is it less muddy or clearer?

Does it use same 32kHz SR?

Max sampling rate is 32 kHz (like Clouds) but "muddy" sound with Clouds/Supercell has more to do with suboptimal gain staging and lack of parameter modulation than the sampling rate. See Olivier's comments here and here for more discussion.

Here's a demo that someone sent a while back:

pld
sempervirent wrote:
tdball wrote:
Any news on parasites support?

That's up to @pld but I think it's getting close.

It compiles, the module boots and the modes are selectable so yes, it seems close smile
There's some UI tweaking to be done, but mainly I haven't found time to do any systematic testing and measure whether there's any performance side-effects.
tau_seti
It’s super! I think it’s much easier to work with than Clouds due to the way the controls are broken out and the amplifier st the end helps whole heaps.
Struggle
This is by far my favorite out of all the versions I’ve had (regular, uBurst and Grains tabletop). The layout, I/O gains, mutes and built in modulation make a huge difference. Well done Grayscale!!
rennerom
What's the current draw? I don't see it published anywhere.
squarewavesurfer
Will you be selling panels and pcbs for this at some point?
sempervirent
rennerom wrote:
What's the current draw? I don't see it published anywhere.

+12V: 180 mA
-12V: 60 mA
+5V: not used

squarewavesurfer wrote:
Will you be selling panels and pcbs for this at some point?

Not planning to offer any DIY options right now, could happen later but it's not a big priority.
rennerom
Kind of a specific question, but as I’ve only ever tried clouds with parasites installed, does the reverb also affect the dry signal? If I remember right, that was unique to the parasites firmware, but I’m having a hard time finding the documentation to confirm that.
Struggle
rennerom wrote:
If I remember right, that was unique to the parasites firmware


That’s right. No verb on dry signal with original version.
Acquadar
OMG I received mine today. The original concept is so expanded. A huge sonic iceberg to discover. I’m pretty sure Olivier would love to hear Clouds dreaming electric sheeps...
sleepgardens
tbecker wrote:
The fact that MI gave up code and files is why we are looking at the supercell now and it looks really good to me!


Olivier didn't simply gave up code and files. They are released under CC BY-SA 3.0. Let's look into it:

You are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
Under the following terms:
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original. This point is the most important here.

Supercell should also be released under CC-BY-SA. An open source license, with files provided. I don't think there is any excuse to be made here. I am ok with waiting to recoup some production costs, but at the end of it files must be released, just like Oliver does.

And I've said this before for other Clouds clones (lately there is another one with independent blend parameters) which pcbs are sold by some website without providing files.

This is not a personal battle against Greyscale or any other designer, this is totally to make a fair use of what Olivier gifts to the community. Gift is the keyword here, he is in no way obliged to release his projects on a open source license and I think that is at least the right thing to do to honor the decision to share his designs with the community. At the end, if that wasn't the case, we wouldn't have this or any other Clouds rework.
forestcaver
sleepgardens wrote:

Supercell should also be released under CC-BY-SA. An open source license, with files provided. I don't think there is any excuse to be made here.


I agree. I think it’s a very sad situation.
pld
forestcaver wrote:
sleepgardens wrote:

Supercell should also be released under CC-BY-SA. An open source license, with files provided. I don't think there is any excuse to be made here.

I agree. I think it’s a very sad situation.

I think that if you wanted a(n even more) concrete statement, simply asking "Can you give an ETA when the files will be released?" would seem to be more productive and require less assumptions.
DonKartofflo
Was really tempted by this, thanks for helping me decide! No share alike, no buy.
sempervirent
I appreciate you guys trying to get people to "do the right thing" but some minor PCB revisions and firmware tweaks are being made for the second batch, at which point I will consider the project finished. These changes need to be fully vetted before anything is published. There is no big conspiracy happening here, just the boring vagaries of manufacturing. I don't know why some people are assuming the worst of intentions. That's their prerogative I guess but it seems unnecessarily hostile and paranoid.
lisa
Some seem to interpret "you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original" as "you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original right fucking now!!!!11!1"

I can't see any timeframes in the licensing description.
rennerom
sempervirent wrote:

On the original Clouds, you hold the button to the right of the LEDs for 5 seconds to change modes. The mode is indicated on the LEDs: the first LED indicates the first mode, etc. The current implementation on the Buchla-format SMP module, which will be carried over to Supercell, is similar (though a different switch is used).


It’s still not clear to me how to go to different modes. Is that what the bank button is for? Like can I move from granular to looping delay by going from bank A to bank C, or is that only for saved presets??
sempervirent
The TIME and BANK switches both have dual functions: tap vs hold.

Tap TIME to change the sampling time/quality.
Hold TIME to change modes (granular, pitch shift, etc).

Tap BANK to cycle through the four saved memory slots.
Hold BANK to save the current audio buffer into one of those four slots.

Unlike Clouds, there's also a way to reload a saved memory slot without cycling through the other three slots first. Hold TRIG while tapping BANK. It's like an undo feature that lets you go back to a saved state after un-freezing the audio buffer (kind of a performance thing where you have the option to alternate between freezing the incoming audio or playing back a saved loop).

You can download the manual for more details:
https://grayscale.info/supercell/#downloads
Acquadar
I feel it like a 300% expanded Clouds. It is simply unbelievable the new heights that Supercell is able to reach in granular wonderland. Mercì Olivier, thanks Grayscale for make this thing happen...
rennerom
sempervirent aha, that manual is what I was looking for. Apparently I just didn’t look hard enough. Thanks!
sempervirent
Acquadar wrote:
I feel it like a 300% expanded Clouds. It is simply unbelievable the new heights that Supercell is able to reach in granular wonderland. Mercì Olivier, thanks Grayscale for make this thing happen...

Thanks a lot, glad you are enjoying the module.

rennerom wrote:
sempervirent aha, that manual is what I was looking for. Apparently I just didn’t look hard enough. Thanks!

No problem. Just FYI a few details will change once the new firmware is available, so be sure to download the updated manual in a few weeks.
pgmariconda
lisa wrote:
Some seem to interpret "you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original" as "you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original right fucking now!!!!11!1"

I can't see any timeframes in the licensing description.


Yep, no timeframes in CC, this is an unacceptable ways to make money.
lisa
Again, no given timeframe doesn’t mean that the material must be released immediately. It only means that it has to be released at some point.

I’m sorry, but it is you people trying to dictate the terms for your own benefit that come off as greedy.
Zymos
Wow, you waited 2 years, and that's what you needed to say for your first post? He already said that the licensing terms will be followed.
pgmariconda
lisa wrote:
Again, no given timeframe doesn’t mean that the material must be released immediately. It only means that it has to be released at some point.

I’m sorry, but it is you people trying to dictate the terms for your own benefit that come off as greedy.


no, no, no, no, CC licence is the same for Hardware, software and multimedia contents: "if you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original" mean immediately as has been stated here:

Section 5 — Term and Termination.
a) ....
b) ....
1. ....
2. You may choose to fulfill all conditions of this Public License at a later time [...]. Should you have used the Work without fulfilling all conditions of this Public License in a way that enables the licensor to claim damages or recover cost from You, a reinstatement will not limit the ability of Licensor to claim damages or recover cost for the period in which the Work was used without a license.
Footkerchief
sempervirent wrote:
I appreciate you guys trying to get people to "do the right thing" but some minor PCB revisions and firmware tweaks are being made for the second batch, at which point I will consider the project finished. These changes need to be fully vetted before anything is published. There is no big conspiracy happening here, just the boring vagaries of manufacturing. I don't know why some people are assuming the worst of intentions. That's their prerogative I guess but it seems unnecessarily hostile and paranoid.

You could publish the source files accompanied by this disclaimer?

For sure it's paranoid to assume bad intentions, but it's not paranoid to be frustrated and confused by even a few weeks' delay in the release of the files. It creates an information asymmetry that's counter to the letter and spirit of the license. If you want people to trust you, trust them with the content.
pld
Footkerchief wrote:
You could publish the source files accompanied by this disclaimer?

For sure it's paranoid to assume bad intentions, but it's not paranoid to be frustrated and confused by even a few weeks' delay in the release of the files. It creates an information asymmetry that's counter to the letter and spirit of the license. If you want people to trust you, trust them with the content.

Sounds like more work, but not much benefit?
It's not my project, but I for one hate releasing anything that's work-in-progress (for example, riddled with to-dos or interim commits that should be squashed/rebased away). And "a few weeks" doesn't mean much if you don't know how much time actually gets spent working on it...
pgmariconda
Only 4.0 offer 30 days timeframe, Clouds is under 3.0, so no delay allowed:



CC is the basis of our community, let's protect it!
Zymos
Sometimes it seems like righteous indignation is the basis of our community...
pld
pgmariconda wrote:
CC is the basis of our community, let's protect it!

That's a big claim, a very unspecific goal, so there's no way that can backfire.
Footkerchief
pld wrote:

Sounds like more work, but not much benefit?
It's not my project, but I for one hate releasing anything that's work-in-progress (for example, riddled with to-dos or interim commits that should be squashed/rebased away). And "a few weeks" doesn't mean much if you don't know how much time actually gets spent working on it...

Yes, respecting the terms of the license does take more work. Someone unwilling to make that work a priority shouldn't be selling. Also, given that this project is effectively a fork of a Github repo, the practical barrier to making it public should be very low.

Regarding benefit, isn't it enough that people have asked for it? Do you know better than them whether they'd benefit from it? And anyway, you and I are not the judge of whether anyone will benefit from the release of the files -- that became a moot point when pichenettes chose the license.
pld
I didn't claim to know better. But it's not obvious either how rushing incomplete or known incorrect files earlier would be more useful than waiting for an official release if we assume that time available is limited anyway. The number of people who can actually work with that "stuff" tends quickly to zero... And if they really wanted to and asked nicely, they could probably get private access.

In general I find it's too easily forgotten who is doing actual work and investing into these things (i.e. it's not free) and seldom are these discussions openly oriented towards making it more attractive for more people to do so. Placing even more demands on them and requiring absolute compliance doesn't seem to be a great motivational approach. Sure, one can perform some mental gymnastics to get there, but I think the methodology is, well, wrong even if we can probably agree on most of the goals. Corner cases excluded, YMMV, it depends, etc.

But I'm going to shut up and take my own advice
pld wrote:
I'd suggest that if anyone wants to continue OS discussions, move it elsewhere or PM and free the space for demos
dooj88
Zymos wrote:
Sometimes it seems like righteous indignation is the basis of our community...


it's not just us man. it's the age of outrage. being an internet warrior for the flavor of the week cause is the benefit and curse of social media. shorter attention spans lead to a quicker yet less uninformed emotional reaction. sometimes good things result, but mostly it feels like easily distracted people are bandwagon bitching (i'm generalizing society, not people in this thread).

regarding supercell, i dont have the space, but damn, having the controls spread out would be a luxury. what is the forthcoming update going to change?
PLNB
Any eta’s for recent website orders? Thx!
UltraViolet
I am a little confused by this. He said he worked with Oliver in creating the module. This wasn't something done in secret and it is not competing with Mutable Instruments since Clouds is no longer in production. It is Oliver's work that was used and he is the only one that could really be wronged. If Oliver is not upset then why should any of us be?
hermbot
Does anyone know where I can see the repos and documentation for Michigan Synth Works modules? Or Blue Lantern, who also do mutable clones? Or anyone making the micro versions of the the modules?
pelang
PLNB wrote:
Any eta’s for recent website orders? Thx!


i got an email that they should be back by next week...
Footkerchief
UltraViolet wrote:
I am a little confused by this. He said he worked with Oliver in creating the module. This wasn't something done in secret and it is not competing with Mutable Instruments since Clouds is no longer in production. It is Oliver's work that was used and he is the only one that could really be wronged. If Oliver is not upset then why should any of us be?

What are you responding to?
UltraViolet
Footkerchief wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
I am a little confused by this. He said he worked with Oliver in creating the module. This wasn't something done in secret and it is not competing with Mutable Instruments since Clouds is no longer in production. It is Oliver's work that was used and he is the only one that could really be wronged. If Oliver is not upset then why should any of us be?

What are you responding to?


The (not so nice) discussion about the hardware and source code files not being immediately released.
forestcaver
hermbot wrote:
Does anyone know where I can see the repos and documentation for Michigan Synth Works modules? Or Blue Lantern, who also do mutable clones? Or anyone making the micro versions of the the modules?


google is your friend, but here you go....

1. jakplugg github github
2. blue lantern - harder to find with google but not that hard eg peaks peaks

There are other micro modules but I cant be bothered to paste urls but you can look at antumbra as welll.

Most people comply with the licence terms.

There are loads and loads of other derivatives (I’ve done some for fun) - most can be found on github by following chains of repo branches or googling...
UltraViolet
The Blue Lantern stuff is all at the bottom of this page on how to build a wood Eurorack case:

https://www.bluelanternstore.com/survival.html#/
sempervirent
dooj88 wrote:
regarding supercell, i dont have the space, but damn, having the controls spread out would be a luxury. what is the forthcoming update going to change?

There are no modules that are too large, only cases that are too small wink

Also if you look at the relative cost (in both currency and hp) of adding four exponential VCAs, four mutes, and nine inverting attenuators to an existing Clouds, having all this stuff built into one module starts to make more sense. And that's before you consider the internal modulation bus, output metering, increased output gain, and usability "improvements" (subjectively speaking).

The firmware changes are mostly related to UI interactions. Depending on the production schedule there might be one new feature as well, too early to say if that will be finished before it's time to flash the modules.

UltraViolet wrote:
I am a little confused by this. He said he worked with Oliver in creating the module. This wasn't something done in secret and it is not competing with Mutable Instruments since Clouds is no longer in production. It is Oliver's work that was used and he is the only one that could really be wronged. If Oliver is not upset then why should any of us be?

Thanks. Just to be clear, I was only saying (in the first post) that I discussed the idea with Olivier first, not that it was a collaboration between us. His response (as you might expect) was generous: you don't need permission, it's open source. He also hinted at how his updated granular module would differ from Clouds. The differences were significant enough that developing Supercell made sense.

Also, FWIW, Olivier recently mentioned that any replacement for Clouds is delayed until the end of 2019 at best.

Anyway, source files for Supercell will be posted when manufacturing of the second batch wraps up over the next few weeks. Preorders will start shipping in a similar timeframe and we'll finally get some proper demos posted as well.
PLNB
we're not worthy
pelang wrote:
PLNB wrote:
Any eta’s for recent website orders? Thx!


i got an email that they should be back by next week...
we're not worthy thx!
sempervirent
Assembly is finished... I'll be shipping preorders next week and publishing the open-source documentation to Github then as well.

The next thing on my list is to test out the latest build of Parasites that @pld sent over a few days ago, work on integrating more recent code changes back into the Parasites code base, and then release a beta of "SuperParasites" to a few testers. PM me if you're interested.

Speaking of code changes... firmware v1.01 adds a way to change the frequency of the internal random CV source, inspired by the method of changing secondary parameters on Plaits. Press and hold the TRIG switch and then turn the PAN knob. The HOLD LED will blink to indicate that the value is being changed, and the new value will take effect when the TRIG switch is released. The range is from 1-100 Hz.

If you have a module from the first batch (PCB labeling shows v1.0) go to https://grayscale.info/supercell/#downloads and download the firmware update. Updates can be installed via audio input (just like Clouds) and it takes about two minutes. Read the manual for detailed instructions.

Thanks to everyone who pushed for an internal randomization option, this is a very useful thing to have within the module and now that the rate is adjustable it's become a core feature.

Here's a short video with a one-second sample. Nothing is patched into the module, the randomization (set to 1 Hz) is controlling everything. By modulating the Density parameter, which already has a range of random timing values on the right half of the knob, you can randomly scan through different random trigger timings. Sort of a granular Krell thing:



Also noticed this Instagram post from @drasko_v today where Supercell is being used for sound design for a film. Morphagene into Supercell, sounds awesome: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bsh6TeQhDC6/

A few other videos spotted recently:



cannonball swandive
Will panels for the DIY community be available to purchase?
tdball
Any news on the parasites front? Loving the module so far but interested in checking out things like oliverb mode from the parasites firmware.
exper
tdball wrote:
Any news on the parasites front? Loving the module so far but interested in checking out things like oliverb mode from the parasites firmware.


mentioned 2 posts up from yours...
matttech
Sweeeeeet! Order placed

This revamp really does sound like a great idea, and will likely encourage more experimentation and deeper modulation of the parameters - Emilie often seemed disappointed people that weren’t pushing this aspect of the design more.....and I’m always in favour of a randomise function on, well, pretty much anything!

I used to use some plugin synths that all had randomiser buttons on them, and you could specify which parameters, or groups of parameters, were affected by it...and by how much. I used to literally sit there banging away at it after I’d written my synth riff, and recording endless variations on my patch, which I could use to help build the arrangement and intensity up. Top fun
w00t

Gonna be checking these out for certain when they land in a week or so.
sempervirent
cannonball swandive wrote:
Will panels for the DIY community be available to purchase?

Not yet sure what DIY options (if any) will be offered.

tdball wrote:
Any news on the parasites front? Loving the module so far but interested in checking out things like oliverb mode from the parasites firmware.

Since my last post I've tested this out extensively on Supercell, and it works well. A few other people are helping to test. Even if everything's working perfectly it will take a little more time to merge the v1.01 updates with the Parasites code and create some supplemental documentation.
cackland
The new videos above have definitely tempted me further. Seriously considering purchasing.
batch
I have a Supercell - love it.

Question regarding the internal modulation source. I assume mods are added to the knob settings, with depth set by the attentuators, but anyone have any idea what scale is the modulation source on? 0-5V, -5-5V, 0-10V? Also, how frequently is it sampled and therefore applied?

Just wondering as informs where to set the the knobs to get the results am looking for.

Thanks in advance
mazzyboy
So... how long until we see the first wave of micro-supercells? wink
cackland
mazzyboy wrote:
So... how long until we see the first wave of micro-supercells? wink


The whole purpose of Supercell, was to expand the original.

If you've thought of it, I'm sure someone else will.
mazzyboy
cackland wrote:
mazzyboy wrote:
So... how long until we see the first wave of micro-supercells? wink


The whole purpose of Supercell, was to expand the original.

If you've thought of it, I'm sure someone else will.


Ha! I was (kinda) joking.
However, the expanded functionality - shrunk back to fit in a package the same size as the original clouds - would be cool!
Footkerchief
mazzyboy wrote:
So... how long until we see the first wave of micro-supercells? wink

Arguably counts: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-monsoon-
keninverse
sempervirent wrote:
cannonball swandive wrote:
Will panels for the DIY community be available to purchase?

Not yet sure what DIY options (if any) will be offered.

Any particular reason why? It'd be extremely easy to just release the gerbers alone with a noncommercial license or the same cc license like Emilie released hers. It's not like you'd need to support DIY.
Zymos
Seems like the question and answer had to do with buying a panel, not with releasing information....
sempervirent
batch wrote:
Question regarding the internal modulation source. I assume mods are added to the knob settings, with depth set by the attentuators, but anyone have any idea what scale is the modulation source on? 0-5V, -5-5V, 0-10V? Also, how frequently is it sampled and therefore applied?

Thanks for getting a module. The random CV covers a 0-5V range. Depending on the position of the attenuverters, this voltage is either added to (or subtracted from) the knob position. 5V will fully sweep all parameters except for Pitch and Density (which have distinct positive and negative ranges and thus require 10V for a full sweep).

As for the frequency, see my post above regarding the v1.01 firmware update which adds the ability to change the modulation frequency (1-100 Hz range). On the previous firmware the rate was fixed at 20 Hz, so you'll probably want to upgrade. Calibration is recommended afterward.

mazzyboy wrote:
So... how long until we see the first wave of micro-supercells?

It's probably inevitable. I would ask the creators to reconsider though.

keninverse wrote:
Any particular reason why? It'd be extremely easy to just release the gerbers alone with a noncommercial license or the same cc license like Emilie released hers. It's not like you'd need to support DIY.

As @Zymos mentioned I think the earlier question was about selling panels separately. But regarding your question, I do think selling bare PCBs implies a degree of support. CC also dictates that derivatives have to be released under the same license as the original, so you can't change from BY-SA to NC regardless.

My position on DIY builds: personal use is fine, but I'd really prefer not to see people doing builds for the purpose of selling them. For those who choose to do this anyway, note that having access to the PCB files doesn't automagically confer the rights to use the trademarks "Supercell" or "Grayscale" in association with what you are selling. These are basic IP concerns that are unrelated to CC. Also I will not provide technical support to DIY builders or repair services to people who have bought DIY builds that don't work.

With that said, the PCB files are now on Github:
https://github.com/grayscalemodular/

Source code will be published when the conversion of Parasites has been finalized.

All preorders will be shipped out over the next two days.
pelang
sempervirent wrote:

All preorders will be shipped out over the next two days.


This is fun! happy to hear that. never owned a cloud before...
sempervirent
A few short clips posted recently:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs8PzlJHCrG/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs6oZKXBy9y/

More coming soon.
matttech
Got these bad boys in stock now, and they sure look nice in the flesh zombie

oranginafiend
EDIT: read the manual and yes it's expected lol. should've given it more than quick skim!

Hi I recently purchased a supercell and it's my first version of a clouds so I'm not sure if this is expected behavior, but the attuneverters act on the knobs without an input.


Any help or guidance would be appreciated thanks.
sempervirent
Hey, no worries. It's not a bug, it's a feature!

If you want to toggle the international modulation on/off, hold both of the MUTE switches for two seconds. There's no visual indication of the state, but adjusting an attenuator for one of the more obvious parameters (such as Pitch) will make things clear.

Currently the on/off state is not saved across power cycles but I'll be posting a minor firmware revision soon that will fix this.
oranginafiend
jumped back into euro! first patch getting eerie tones with supercell, batumi, and elements. also lil ms-20m sequins

https://streamable.com/hbk6a

waiting for my qpas and saving for a piston honda iii!
Illwiggle
oranginafiend wrote:
jumped back into euro! first patch getting eerie tones with supercell, batumi, and elements. also lil ms-20m sequins

https://streamable.com/hbk6a

waiting for my qpas and saving for a piston honda iii!


Nice!!
emergingstates
Hello what is the button combination for accessing the alternate modes?

Thanks.
sempervirent
Hold the TIME switch for a few seconds. More details in the user manual:
https://grayscale.info/supercell/#downloads

Nice sounds @oranginafiend, thanks for posting.
ziggystru
Any updates on beat repeat firmware ?

Thanks! Rockin' Banana!
beepetc.
I'm enjoying the supercell A LOT. The aux input makes this thing so alive! How's the progress on the support for alt- firmwares? I'd love to use parasites Looping Delay on Supercell. Beat juggling galore! nanners

Edit: Just saw the post above after posting this. No spam intended. <3
Beermaster
Hi - Just setup my supercell but can't seem to keep any audio in the buffer ? - on the original Clouds you just fed it audio and it buffered automatically but I can't seem to get anything to stay in the buffer ? - Tried the different time settings and get the flashing lights showing it's triggered - get the sound coming in and can hear the modulations and effects all working as expected but as soon as I cut the audio input there doesn't seem to be anything in the buffer ? - Wiggling all the controls to try and scan over the audio etc - What am i doing wrong ?
Beermaster
Ah - Got it ! - the Hold Button !
sempervirent
Hey, thanks for getting a module. Correct, unless "Hold" (labeled "Freeze" on Clouds) is on, the audio input must be continuous in order to hear any processed/wet signal. If "Hold" is off, the output will be silent X seconds (determined by the Time setting) after the audio input goes silent.

@ziggystru @beepetc - Parasites is very close, I'll post files for a public beta once a few things from the main Supercell code are merged.
beepetc.
Yeeeaaah! Nice!
sempervirent
Here's a short clip by forum member @Quasi (whose music project is called A Box In The Sea) using the Supercell to process a kalimba – very nice.



Also the latest Parasites build checks out, download the WAV file here:
https://grayscale.info/supercell/#downloads

Status at this point is "public beta" – caveat emptor and all that. There are no known issues but if you experience any problems, please send me an email with clear steps required to reproduce the problem.

Huge thanks to @pld for taking this on. Hopefully we'll be able to get the Beat Repeat code integrated into Parasites soon as well.
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