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Update: 8 16bit cv outputs from computer!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author Update: 8 16bit cv outputs from computer!
wetterberg
Alright, so this has been the holy grail for me in terms of modular synth+computer integration, and I had all but given up:

my fa-101 has DC blocking capacitors (and I'm not overly keen on hacking it wink ) and my 828mk1 had been bricked by horrible drivers...

I had even started looking into weird OSC->CV solutions, and had cash in hand, ready to buy the Kenton Pro 2000, which is expensive, and still only runs at midi resolution.

Well, now things have changed! I magically got the 828mk1 to WORK and I speedily set up a test rig to see what I could get out of the unit.

IT WORKS! Oh my GAWD this is so cool! I have a 4-way step sequencer, a fully synced ADSR and an LFO modulating an LFO, coming out of 5 different outputs, and as far as I can tell the voltage is REALLY high - good enough to do proper pitch scaling and so on - this RULES! It also happily generates trigger outputs, although I am going to build a trigger interface instead.

So - what does it sound like?
http://wetterberg.dk/uploads/828_modulator.mp3
(sorry for the crummy recording, weird interference on my recorder... wasn't there when monitoring directly, grumble)

What's going on?
the patch is 110 VCO->116 waveform processor->106-1 Xtreme filter

Computer is step sequencing PWM, clipping and symmetry CV and filter cutoff. Not too fancy, just enough for me to play around. Manually adjusting resonance and levels. adsr is going to the filter (yes, that's right, I'm not using an adsr in my modular!) and the lfo-modulated-lfo is controlling the filter as well. both lfos are sinewaves, and going into audio range is so damned easy.

The sequencer patch was just thrown together quickly - every 8 bars all 4 8-step sequencers are randomly set. But the results are surprisingly funky, if you ask me. I'm looking forward to attempting something sequenced on my Lemur! eek!
What does it look like?
Soy Sos
Hell yes!! Great work! I have Max/MSP and got very put off the path and kind of gave up. This should be good reason to give it another push. AND I have the same 828 you have. I guess you get 3 of these:

SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
zerosum
Damn that is really really cool 8)
dkcg
Awesome!!! SlayerBadger! w00t

I see you're running Max5. smile

I like the round corners now.

I've been thinking about some sort of master clock/control hub, and I keep thinking Max would be the easiest most controllable, repeatable way. Congrats dude, I gotta get back to using Max with the modular too.

Nice to know the 828mk1 can send low frequency outputs too! 8)
Suburban Bather
Dammit Andreas! stop making me gas over software I don't want to buy wink
amnesia
is this doable with other sound cards? i have a presonus firepod can you send us the max file please
flts
amnesia wrote:
is this doable with other sound cards? i have a presonus firepod can you send us the max file please


Any sound cards that don't have DC blocking capacitors in their output stages should do at least passably. Lots of audio interfaces have those though, but you can try out yourself.
Scaff
yeah, please post a link to the file. Great Job! we're not worthy
wetterberg
I say that if you have an aging audio interface and this *doesn't* work, and some soldering skills then open her up and short out the caps twisted

One thing that was unforeseen is that the DC on the outputs - and the flow of electricity back and forth between the modular and the 828 - made *recording* simultaneously on the 828 quite impossible, unfortunately. Otherwise I'd be half way done with a cv recorder already very frustrating - still, can't beat it for unlimited sequencers, envelopes, lfos and other malarky.

http://wetterberg.dk/uploads/analog_test.maxpat
- here's the patch, in all it's modesty - a lot of fun, nonetheless - loading it up will definitely let you know if your interface is dc-coupled or not.

SUBURBAN BATHER!!! wtf are you doing here - are you stalking me, mr. Zombie Man? Guinness ftw!
Suburban Bather
wetterberg wrote:
I say that if you have an aging audio interface and this *doesn't* work, and some soldering skills then open her up and short out the caps twisted

One thing that was unforeseen is that the DC on the outputs - and the flow of electricity back and forth between the modular and the 828 - made *recording* simultaneously on the 828 quite impossible, unfortunately. Otherwise I'd be half way done with a cv recorder already very frustrating - still, can't beat it for unlimited sequencers, envelopes, lfos and other malarky.

http://wetterberg.dk/uploads/analog_test.maxpat
- here's the patch, in all it's modesty - a lot of fun, nonetheless - loading it up will definitely let you know if your interface is dc-coupled or not.

SUBURBAN BATHER!!! wtf are you doing here - are you stalking me, mr. Zombie Man? Guinness ftw!


lol
During a recent and rare occasion of checking out the Ableton forum, I saw a link to this site. I have a 22space .com system and almost all of the Moogerfoogers(just need both murfs and the mp-201). I'm also thinking about starting a Euro Rack system and I want your B R A I N ZZZZZZ. So, here I am!
dkcg
amnesia wrote:
is this doable with other sound cards? i have a presonus firepod can you send us the max file please


I've seen used 828Mk1's as cheap as $150. smile
criticalmonkey
i've been doing this with the motu 896 - I have no recording issues with it simultaneously - maybe because of the balanced connectors?
recently performed with it - really nice to have the sync control between gates, lfo's, etc
really pushing me in new directions -
wetterberg
criticalmonkey wrote:
i've been doing this with the motu 896 - I have no recording issues with it simultaneously - maybe because of the balanced connectors?
Good call! I'll have a go at going in balanced instead. erhm... but I don't have a di-box... Or do you just mean using a balanced connector at all?
futuresoundsystems
I'm severely tempted to hack my old Edirol interface now...
wetterberg
futuresoundsystems wrote:
I'm severely tempted to hack my old Edirol interface now...
you know, I am too, even though I found the 828 to work... it's just bridging a few caps... hmm.
wetterberg
Another update:

I've finished installing my new modules today, and thought I'd see if I can scope out the tracking from my 828 into the famed doepfer a-110 vco.

well... suffice to say I get at least 5 octaves of PERFECT pitch, at least as well as I can measure it in a hurry.

I now have an 11*6 keyboard matrix laid out on the Lemur, maxMSP applying portamento, etc. I really hope I get a chance to record some video of this process tonight, it's turning out to be a LOT of fun.
cebec
So, is it safe to say the 828 mk I works better for this than the mk II and no modification is required?
wetterberg
yes, from what I've learned:

Descriptions of the mkII as "hacky" etc do NOT fit the mkI - it's like plug and play.

wonderful tracking, it generates trigger pulses at very high audio rates too...

I have band rehearsal in roughly 30 hours, going to try to sync it up with Live and so on.
dkcg
wetterberg wrote:
yes, from what I've learned:

Descriptions of the mkII as "hacky" etc do NOT fit the mkI - it's like plug and play.

wonderful tracking, it generates trigger pulses at very high audio rates too...

I have band rehearsal in roughly 30 hours, going to try to sync it up with Live and so on.


I may have to pick up a MK1 to check the difference. The Mk2 seemed kinda aliased on the scope, the LFO ramps were a little steppy, seemed to work better at higher resolutions, 96k was about twice as smooth as 48k, 44 was almost the same as 48. What sample rates are you using with the Mk1?
JohnLRice
uuuhhhmmm . . . I don't get it! seriously, i just don't get it What da heck is going on here!!!!!???? question
wetterberg
JohnLRice wrote:
uuuhhhmmm . . . I don't get it! seriously, i just don't get it What da heck is going on here!!!!!???? question
Using computer audio interfaces to directly interface with a modular synthesizer. We have found that the 828mk1 (and at least in part mk2) can output relatively high voltage DC, so using software we can generate anything from LFOs to adsrs and sequencers, which can be run directly into cv inputs of a modular.

I hope that makes a bit of sense amidst all the geek-speak.
criticalmonkey
i'm going straight from xlr to 3.5 mm cv inputs and back I'm using a pre made 8 ch snake xlr to tip sleeve unbalanced with an adapter from 1/4 to the 3.5mm (1/8) - haven't bothered to look to closely at the wiring since it was stock to all my xlr to unbalanced - probably true for trs to unbalanced too

setting up the interface in their cuemix app was another trick - they tend to default stuff to in and out on 1 and 2 which messed with me for a bit

hey - have you been able to record cv back in consistently for playback? I can record but it requires a lot of tweaking to make sure what i record is what i wanted - preamp gain seems to be the secret
haven't tried to hard to solve the issue yet but wondering if you have had any luck

btw - grab the adsr tutorial patch in ax/msp and you'll have the most happening adsr ever - fast as the da converter and as slow as time can go - been having a blast with that - i'm thinking draw your own adsr or variable segments

possibilities are endless

I've kinda slowed up on my new dev since max 5 and pluggo support is not complete - thinking of rebuilding my performance environment entirely in max but gotta fine time and energy
criticalmonkey
btw - anybody wanting to give this a quick try - i made some really ugly bad vst plugins for demo purposes on criticalshit.com
gate/adsr/midi to cv using the audio interface/and an lfo - pluggo format so you'll need the runtime
great way to test your interface
goiks
@wetterberg-

thanks for exploring and posting on this - please keep us posted on your experiences. had to add 828 to my saved searches. already have max. can't wait. and what are you planning on doing for triggers, you mentioned a module?
D/A A/D
So cool.
JohnLRice
Wow, really interesting stuff! I've got a MIDI interface on my computer and a MOTM-650 MIDI->CV converter so I don't think I'll take the time to explore this but . . .I finding it really interesting and impressively clever! 8)
wetterberg
goikem wrote:
@wetterberg-

thanks for exploring and posting on this - please keep us posted on your experiences.
will do - lots of good things in the future for this rig, I do believe!


goikem wrote:
had to add 828 to my saved searches. already have max. can't wait. and what are you planning on doing for triggers, you mentioned a module?
yeah, I did. I was originally going to build a midi to trigger system, and I still may, but for now the 828 is a perfect trigger system, too. I just find myself running out of outputs smile
wetterberg
criticalmonkey wrote:
hey - have you been able to record cv back in consistently for playback?
haven't tried yet - I hope to install my dual joystick rig soon, which will give me a nice reason to start looping cv smile

Quote:
btw - grab the adsr tutorial patch in ax/msp and you'll have the most happening adsr ever - fast as the da converter and as slow as time can go - been having a blast with that - i'm thinking draw your own adsr or variable segments
yeah, I have a great editor for [function] which is a really flexible breakpoint function editor. I can control it directly from my Lemur and use it as the most wobbly envelope ever.
Quote:

possibilities are endless
aye.
criticalmonkey wrote:
I've kinda slowed up on my new dev since max 5 and pluggo support is not complete - thinking of rebuilding my performance environment entirely in max but gotta fine time and energy
you know, I've been doing the same more or less, but I'm getting really ready to put at least 50% of my set directly in maxMSP, and have the rest in Ableton Live... I wish I could switch all the way, but it's not a realistic approach right now, I think.
dkcg
Sorta related to the CV output through an audio interface. CV to midi back into the computer. I think it's good enough for LFOs and slower envelopes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjVqrJ2wHnc

Hopefully I'll have time and ambition enough soon to jump back into Max and make a nice modular processing/master control patch and finally get the best of both worlds. smile
criticalmonkey
cool
it would make for an interesting way to control software from a modular

i'm planning a straight cv recorder - it is easy to record but hard to calibrate so that what goes in matches what goes out - preamp issues
i think i'll have to make some sort of calibration meter - got to run a few tests to see what best to use as a calibration source - volt to hz maybe

it is fun just to record cv of random cv sources and then play it back - made performing a bit easier too
dkcg
Ultimately one of the uses I'd like to have with it are to control realtime Jitter or Isadora video/graphics, something along the lines of what Jack Dangers does. How sweet would it be to be able to trigger video clips/samples from the modular with an env gen?! hyper

But on an audio practical level, even things like controlling a pan with a LFO are possible, so I could send out mono signals and still have a stereo mix controlled by the modular. After my Max discovery last night of how to read the data, I started thinking about how the modular could control Max, and get an analog/digital hybrid feedback patch going where analog controls digital, and digital controls analog. grin SlayerBadger!
Soy Sos
Wetterberg, you so fucking rule!
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! 5 SB for you!
I'm having so much fun, this second run at MaxMSP
has already be so much more successful because of
this patch. Thank you!!
Suburban Bather
Soy Sos, what audio interface are you using? I've got an MH 2882. If it works, I just may have to purchase a copy of MAX.
Soy Sos
Sequencer, ADSR + Scope!
Baby steps, I know...........
Soy Sos
It just so happens that I've been using the MOTU 828 for years.
So win win.......It's been working perfectly.
synthetic
When I worked at Alesis, people used to remove the blocking capacitors from the outputs to generate CV for laser light shows. You should be able to modify any D/A converter to do this, it's a easy one to undo as well. Just remove one leg of the capacitor and solder a bridge between the two joints. Cool hack. smile
wetterberg
synthetic wrote:
When I worked at Alesis, people used to remove the blocking capacitors from the outputs to generate CV for laser light shows.
What a great story! SlayerBadger!
Soy, that scope is showing your inputs? Awesome - I hadn't tested the inputs much yet, glad to see it scoped out like that!
Soy Sos
Ya, the single output from the modular back into channel 1 of the 828.
That's patched to a meter and scope object. Just bleeping away for hours.
wetterberg
I've been postponing my "real" max patch for this these last weeks... I have everything ready to go here, but too much "real world work" in the way. Grumble. Hopefully MaxMSP and I will be able to get together tomorrow and do some testing.

Andreas.
Kent
synthetic wrote:
When I worked at Alesis, people used to remove the blocking capacitors from the outputs to generate CV for laser light shows. You should be able to modify any D/A converter to do this, it's a easy one to undo as well. Just remove one leg of the capacitor and solder a bridge between the two joints. Cool hack. smile


One could even instal and SPST switch. But that seem like more trouble than it is worth in this application.
mono-poly
I'd love to see a soundcard witch can record and playback contol voltages.
Load them in an audio editor, timestretch pingpong them.

w00t
wetterberg
mono-poly wrote:
I'd love to see a soundcard witch can record and playback contol voltages.
Load hem in an audio editor, timestretch pingpong them.

w00t
uhm.... that's what we're doing!
hyper
mono-poly
Ok it is not clear to me yet.
So you can record cv now as .wav files?
And play them back?

we're not worthy
wetterberg
mono-poly wrote:
Ok it is not clear to me yet.
So you can record cv now as .wav files?
And play them back?

we're not worthy
yes. The main problem has been the dc-blocking capacitors in some audio interfaces. A select few interfaces don't have these, and can record/playback cv - or the computer can generate them directly through these interfaces.
Other interfaces can be modified to work like these, by shorting out said capacitors.

I hope to be doing a small series of videos on this topic soon, *slightly* delayed by first one, now two sick children and a stack of work help

If you have any suggestions as to what to feature in the videos on cv processing, please post them here.

Thanks!
mono-poly
Ok great.
Now i wonder if i can modify some Ensoniq Paris input and output cards.
Sounds amazing recording/playing cv stuff.
How high can you go upto 5 or 10 volt?
wetterberg
mono-poly wrote:
Ok great.
Now i wonder if i can modify some Ensoniq Paris input and output cards.
Sounds amazing recording/playing cv stuff.
How high can you go upto 5 or 10 volt?
Have you tested recording cv directly into the Paris cards without modification?

I sincerely doubt you'll get any audio interface to put out +10 volts on regular outputs, but if you're getting a tech to modify the cards it's possible he could also "pump up the volume", so to speak.

Either that or you could apply gain outside the box, which definitely works, once you've overcome the DC-blocking hurdle.

My 828 seems to be incredibly loud, I am pretty sure they're close to +5volt - normal line level would be roughly +2.5, if my math is correct.
Soy Sos
So a few new tests on my part:
MaxMSP can spit out the slowest of LFO to the modular with no problem.
When I recorded an A-145 LFO into Digital Performer starting at the top of
it's medium range, it was fine until I reached the bottom of it's range then
the recorded waveform disappeared. DP also output the CV back at an
oscillator fine until the recording reached the low range. I'm not sure if
this has been covered already or is on any use for the quest.
wetterberg
I can definitely confirm that, Soy Sos:

- a harmonically rich or otherwise sine wave cannot be faithfully grabbed by the 828mk1 unless we're at above 1hz - anything below that does have some DC-blocking artifacts -
Both the rise and fall of a square wave become SawDown waves, etc. And it'll eventually roll off to the point where there is no signal left.

But hey, it was the outputs I was after wink Oh, and Soy and I both use the 828mk1, YMMV, IANAEE, etc.
Suburban Bather
wetterberg wrote:
IANAEE


That wouldn't mean I Am Not An Electronic Engineer would it? lol

I almost don't want to to try this out yet, or atleast until after my second 5u cab is full. The price of Max will buy me either one nice module or two cheap utility modules Bop!
brandon daniel
Suburban Bather wrote:
wetterberg wrote:
IANAEE


That wouldn't mean I Am Not An Electronic Engineer would it? lol

I almost don't want to to try this out yet, or atleast until after my second 5u cab is full. The price of Max will buy me either one nice module or two cheap utility modules Bop!


I find Plogue Bidule to be a serviceable poor-man's substitute, though the UI tools could use some work.
wetterberg
And Pure Data (PD) is, along with being the closest thing out there to maxMSP, absolutely free.
mono-poly
I did manage to record some outputs off my noisering.
But playing it back resulted in a different sound.
wetterberg
mono-poly wrote:
I did manage to record some outputs off my noisering.
But playing it back resulted in a different sound.
Most likely due to output level matching problems? Or maybe dc-coupling?

In maxMSP I build little scaling bits that go on the end of my patches - basically attenuator/Amplifier/offset units - incredibly easy to build, only two well-placed objects in series and you're good to go smile
Soy Sos
Cycling 74 has a very fair student pricing program.
A great company, I've been using their stuff almost 10 years!
Cat-A-Tonic
mono-poly wrote:
I did manage to record some outputs off my noisering.
But playing it back resulted in a different sound.

I could be wrong, but I think the same would be true of Modcan's CV Recorder.
There is bound to be some stepping/quality degradation.
...but still, CV recording via computer is an awesome idea.
How different was the sound anyway?
an inch or a mile...?
a centimeter or a kilometer...?
just a few steps? hihi
wetterberg
Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
There is bound to be some stepping/quality degradation.
yes, in a 16bit system or even a 24bit system there is degradation... but that's *theoretical* degradation, not audible degradation.... certainly not with a Paris system.

there is no audible stepping on a 16bit lfo, for my money.

The biggest factor in play is input level and output level, I think.

-but let all that be the subject of flame wars somewhere else wink

Anyway, so I'm thinking about things that would be cool to shoot into my modular... right now I'm doing some quick woggle-type things (s+h freq selected by a feedback chain, that kind of madness) but I'm always looking for inspiration - any ideas?
Cat-A-Tonic
Quote:
-but let all that be the subject of flame wars somewhere else

definitely not intended as a flame, just speculation.

In any case, the stuff you guys have been coming up with regarding computer to/from modular interaction is fuckin' righteous! we're not worthy
wetterberg
Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
Quote:
-but let all that be the subject of flame wars somewhere else

definitely not intended as a flame, just speculation.
I kid, I kid smile


So far I'm coming up with the most unholy noises on earth... would like to be able to tame this monster, at least a bit. help
Soy Sos
So tonight I was able to spit out a very slow CV to pitch and envelope
sequence mult-ed into several mini instruments within my modular.
I recorded 1 line back in to the ADC through Bias Peak. It saved it as
a mono AIF @ 44.1 khz 16 bit (the same rate as MaxMSP).
I'll post a MP3 tomorrow.


@Wetterberg, I just noticed: haha!
- a harmonically rich or otherwise sine wave
cannot be faithfully grabbed by the 828mk1 unless we're at
above 1hz - anything below that does have some DC-blocking artifacts -
Soy Sos
Here's that file,
http://share.ovi.com/media/SoySos.public/SoySos.10040
wetterberg
Soy Sos wrote:
Here's that file, let me know if there's static on the playback.

http://share.ovi.com/media/SoySos.mymedia/SoySos.10039
remember to set it to public wink
Soy Sos
On further listening maybe not so mind blowing, just a test to
see that the patch works. I know there's an easy to record
right within the app also but, baby steps!
http://share.ovi.com/media/SoySos.public/SoySos.10040
Soy Sos
OK, this one hopefully a bit more interesting.
10 second cycle, 4 second attack and decay
http://share.ovi.com/media/SoySos.public/SoySos.10041
criticalmonkey
anybody looked into one of these?

http://www.eowave.com/products.php?prod=43

came across it on the cycling74 site - seems interesting and open - though midi protocol seems to be the stock use - but might be useful for the getting info into max/msp type world from a modular world and even more interesting in a performance space

looks like it could even be converted to a euro rack module
wetterberg
I'm liking the eowave, PROVIDED you can do all 16 inputs as pitchbend, which is 14 bit. The price does seem a tad bit high, considering it's such a barebones system, not even headers on that board.
wetterberg
Soy Sos wrote:
OK, this one hopefully a bit more interesting.
10 second cycle, 4 second attack and decay
http://share.ovi.com/media/SoySos.public/SoySos.10041
that one was soo cool!
Soy Sos
Another one:
http://share.ovi.com/media/SoySos.public/SoySos.10042
Richer yet, I think.
DGTom
w00t

This works here w/ PD & Metric Halo ULN-2 Coffee Addiction FTW Coffee Addiction FTW Coffee Addiction FTW

Only a really crude patch @ the moment because my Pure Data skills sux... been years since I used it & I forgot almost everything lol

but... I have osc~ FMing my Blacet VCOs hyper

Now to build some kind of step seq'y things!
flts
DGTom wrote:
This works here w/ PD & Metric Halo ULN-2 Coffee Addiction FTW Coffee Addiction FTW Coffee Addiction FTW


Cool, then it'll most probably work with my MH 2882+DSP! Haven't tried it out yet.
tragedybysyntax
what about a MOTU traveller?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? smile
wetterberg
DGTom wrote:
This works here w/ PD & Metric Halo ULN-2 Coffee Addiction FTW Coffee Addiction FTW Coffee Addiction FTW

but... I have osc~ FMing my Blacet VCOs hyper
Most audio interfaces will work with this, at least at audio rates - would be very interested in hearing if it'll work at LFO speeds (sub-1hz range, especially) - since that would be the true indicator of DC-capabilities.
w00t
wetterberg
... just rolled my own quadrature LFO in maxMSP - figured I'd find out what all the fuss was about with them Quads...
This one is variable in speed from supersonic through Zero hz to supersonic eek! yes, thru-zero: Fully FM-able, phase-modulatable, etc .et c..!
Soy Sos
The quadrature LFO sound interesting. You got my message about the
click~ object? It only seems to want to trigger the gate ins of my 143-1.
It has no effect on the 140, reset ins on the 145 or clock in on the
MFB SEQ-01. I tried amplifying and attenuating the signal with
no success. Anyone tried this?
wetterberg
Soy Sos wrote:
The quadrature LFO sound interesting. You got my message about the
click~ object? It only seems to want to trigger the gate ins of my 143-1.
It has no effect on the 140, reset ins on the 145 or clock in on the
MFB SEQ-01. I tried amplifying and attenuating the signal with
no success. Anyone tried this?
you might need a longer impulse from click~ - try looking in the help file - perhaps sending this message to click will work?

Code:
set 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
DGTom
wetterberg wrote:
Most audio interfaces will work with this, at least at audio rates - would be very interested in hearing if it'll work at LFO speeds (sub-1hz range, especially) - since that would be the true indicator of DC-capabilities.
w00t


I was able to get a slow osc~ going, so its looking good, but I'm hacking PD, I need to know what I'm doing better before I can produce repeatable, usefull test results. Next step, I guess, is to build an envelope that ramps really slowly & see what that will do. Off to the help files!

flts wrote:
Cool, then it'll most probably work with my MH 2882+DSP! Haven't tried it out yet.


Worth a shot! I'd be interested to know if it works, my plan is to one day add a 2882 (or 3) to my system. I love Metric Halo!

tragedybysyntax wrote:
what about a MOTU traveller?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?


Only one way to find out. Pure Data is free & with PD Extended its dead easy to setup. There's a few basic tuts on utoob as well which are helpfull in getting started. I can't get http://puredata.info/ to load here but you can grab it here;

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pure-data
Suburban Bather
wetterberg wrote:

http://wetterberg.dk/uploads/analog_test.maxpat
- here's the patch, in all it's modesty - a lot of fun, nonetheless - loading it up will definitely let you know if your interface is dc-coupled or not.


I just downloaded the Max/MSP demo. How would I go about loading this patch?
wetterberg
install the demo, open max, "open" and then select the patch...
Suburban Bather
But how do I grab the patch? It just opens a link to the text file.
parasitk
If you're on a Mac, just option + click the link. Or you can do the right/control + click thing and pick "download"... is that what you mean?
Suburban Bather
The text file worked. I just had to hit the load from clipboard button and Max loaded the patch.

Thanx for sorting me out Andreas.

Thats it!!!!!!! I must learn how to use Max/MSP this is too cool hyper
Veqtor
It'll get way cooler when Max for Live get's out and you can program tiny live instruments that convert notes into cv for your motu interface etc
criticalmonkey
i still expect max/msp to be much more creative then the motu volta - things like the source of uncertainty are not covered by volta - however using volta inside max may be a sweet option for doing all sorts of shit
Soy Sos
I plan to get my shit together and get better at Max/MSP.
I think the way to go for me eventually will be to make Pluggos
that can open in DP as regular plugins. As of now though Max 5
is not compatible with Pluggo. It should be fairly doablesoon to
pack some of Wetterberg's style sequencers into sync-able plug-ins.
dkcg
Soy Sos wrote:
I plan to get my shit together and get better at Max/MSP.
I think the way to go for me eventually will be to make Pluggos
that can open in DP as regular plugins. As of now though Max 5
is not compatible with Pluggo. It should be fairly doablesoon to
pack some of Wetterberg's style sequencers into sync-able plug-ins.


You could always start the project in 4.6.3 if you wanna make Pluggo plugins, but the Max 5 graphics make those interfaces sure look nice.
wetterberg
Ableton Live users get the triple-bonus package this year, it seems!

But yeah, start in 5, then by the time everything's smooth sailing pluggo will be ready, for sure.
mono-poly
http://www.koncon.nl/ipsonlab/

That works great with max/msp (OSC)
And i am pretty sure it works with Kyma to.
wetterberg
yep, it's just really really expensive, and it's not as fast as doing it with audio - I wouldn't want to do much of anything with OSC now that I've started using audio.
mono-poly
I heard the basic board cost about 100 euro.
And i think it isnt slow at all and the resolution should be 12 bit/channel.
Here is a little info about it (first post on top)

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17893&postorder=asc&hig hlight=ipsonlab&start=75
wetterberg
mono-poly wrote:
I heard the basic board cost about 100 euro.
And i think it isnt slow at all and the resolution should be 12 bit/channel.
Here is a little info about it (first post on top)

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17893&postorder=asc&hig hlight=ipsonlab&start=75
I know all about it, been writing back and forth with Lex, the designer, both before and after it was built.

The ipsonLab Compact, which you'll need for this, is € 200,- for an "ex-student" of the uni, and you'll need to write to them in order to get a board, I imagine 250 euro, and it's DIY assembly.

Then add to that the board, which is 150 euro, assembled, for Ex-student- probably (still guessing here) 175 euro for non-students.

so that's 250+175 which is 425 euro. Thanks, but no thanks, you can get a Motu for half that, or less than half.
mono-poly
I'll let you know what i paid for my kits.
Because i am not sure about the prices you mention.
wetterberg
mono-poly wrote:
I'll let you know what i paid for my kits.
Because i am not sure about the prices you mention.
they're on the website. Minimum price for an ex-student, if they diy the whole thing is 325 euro.
http://www.koncon.nl/ipsonlab/buy.htm
mono-poly
Hey Cool

325 for an ex student for a IpSonCompact + OSC-CV board (16 CV outputs, 12bit) (pre-made)

That would give me 13 cv inputs 12bit an 16 cv outputs without affecting my audiointerface.
I will get a kit for sure smile
mono-poly
Ok i had contact with Lex he is gonna get me some.
Anyone else wants to jump in?

IpSonCompact 200 euro + OSC CV board for 325 euro.
This will give you 13 cv inputs and 16 cv outputs at 12 bit resolution.
Comunication with OSC witch you can use with max/msp, reactor, kyma.
wetterberg
that's a great price, imo. Would love a standalone box to be used with the Lemurs "bouncing balls"! No computer smile
mono-poly
I hope to post something done with it in a few months smile
witz
Hello mono-poly, any news ? did you receive the board ?
macumbista
Getting on board late... but I'm sitting listening to Pure Data freak my modular through the headphone outputs of my Hammerfall DSP Multiface I. It didn't really work through the normal analog outputs because of blocking caps, but some unknown reason those crazy German engineers thought that people needed a DC coupled headphone jack. Nuts... I guess this "feature" disappeared on the Multiface II. Go figure.

Tip for Pd users: send values between -1 and 1 as audio signals to the soundcard output (i.e. using ~ objects). This should give you -2V to +2V peak to peak range, or a 4 octave spread on typical modules. Probably works on Max too....

More Pd tutorials: http://en.flossmanuals.net/puredata
kopplog
It's peanut butter jelly time! gosh!
Remedial
Morning, all.

Okay, I'm considering a purchase of a Realistic Concertmate MG-1 and was hesitating due to the lack of midi.

Now, I do own a 828 mkII, which appears to be one of the "workable" soundcards mentioned in this post. Now, would it be feasible for me to use this Max patch to direct MIDI from my external hardware sequencer (MPC3000) to my 828, through this patch and to the MG-1?

Or, will all sequencing have to be done within this Max patch or a software sequencer?

Also, I'm guessing a purchase of full version of Max will be necessary. I've also heard that similar functions can be accomplished in Pure Data. Anyone know of any patches?

And, in closing, thanks for creating this, Muff.
wetterberg
Remedial wrote:
Now, I do own a 828 mkII, which appears to be one of the "workable" soundcards mentioned in this post. Now, would it be feasible for me to use this Max patch to direct MIDI from my external hardware sequencer (MPC3000) to my 828, through this patch and to the MG-1?
you got it - one of the prime uses of Max is actually as a midi reinterpreter.
Remedial wrote:

Also, I'm guessing a purchase of full version of Max will be necessary. I've also heard that similar functions can be accomplished in Pure Data. Anyone know of any patches?
Interestingly, the patch in PD would look more or less the same.
mmp
Thanks for posting these.

Regards,

MM


criticalmonkey wrote:
btw - anybody wanting to give this a quick try - i made some really ugly bad vst plugins for demo purposes on criticalshit.com
gate/adsr/midi to cv using the audio interface/and an lfo - pluggo format so you'll need the runtime
great way to test your interface
macumbista
Hmmmm..... the Hammerfall DSP soundcard is sitting with it's case open and boards exposed on the workbench. There are 16 big electrolytics on the output board, probably two for each of the 8 channels (positive going and negative going voltage). Is it really just so simple as to short these to get DC coupled output??????

I think I'll sleep on the idea for a night and see how it strikes me in the morning. Anybody wanna try to convince me one way or the other? twisted
wetterberg
try shorting out the last output only. Try it out on there.
macumbista
The deed is done. A very simple mod to short the output caps, and it works f*ing great!!!!! Plugging the output of the card into the 1V/Octave input of the synth, and using Pd to send DC voltage between -1 and +1 (limits of DAC), I get a very wide range from the oscillator. Output measures -5V to +5V on the multimeter (output levels of the Multiface are set by internal jumpers to -10dB or +4 dB, I have them at +4dB). Why didn't I do this two years ago???

(PS...Multiface I has balanced inputs & outputs, which explains why each channel has two caps.)

Time to start writing more Pd patches to do stochastic/generative sequences. I've been interested in creating some tendency masks to generate gates and notes lately (since I saw the note-generating software that Zbigniew Karkowski uses in a composition workshop he gave here in Berlin last week). All this stuff is so much easier on the computer than analog style, so why not use each machine for what it's good for...
thelizard
As a Max and M4Live user, this is about the most damn exciting thing I've seen in a while.

Can anyone tell me if the Digidesign 002R outputs are DC-coupled? Apparently, the headphone jack is (of all things... is it because most headphone plugs are TRS?), but I can't find anything about the rear outputs. I would test it, but I'm afraid of bricking anything.

What really pisses me off is that I just ordered a gigantic batch of TS 1/8" cables and adapters for 1/4" (going both ways) from DeepSurplus and paid like $10 shipping. Had I known about this sooner, it would've cost me a few dollars extra to experiment with TRS jacks, instead of an extra $10 for a new order. very frustrating

Student budgets suck.
aleatoric
Hey thelizard, did you find out if the Digi 002R will work?
aleatoric
From what I could find on the Volta sites, the 002R like most audio interfaces uses DC-blocking capacitors on the outputs.

I am tempted to open it up and see how difficult it would be to remove.
wetterberg
aleatoric wrote:
From what I could find on the Volta sites, the 002R like most audio interfaces uses DC-blocking capacitors on the outputs.

I am tempted to open it up and see how difficult it would be to remove.
no need to remove them, from what I gather - just short them out.



I just upgraded from a motu828mk1 (!) to a motu UltraLite mkIII, taking advantage of its replacement coming soon. (I don't want your stinkin' usb connection! pfft!) - so yeah, I'm looking forward to having a portable, incredibly nice sounding unit for doing these things.

Also, I'll be able to do weird shit with TWO computers now, hehe.
criticalmonkey
be careful with the digidesign interfaces if you depend on protools
not sure of le but hd software and hardware are heavily tied - software won't work with a "faulty" interface
aleatoric
Yeah that's what I am afraid of. Although it's no longer my primary Digidesign interface, and i suppose it would be just as easy to reverse any mods I make to the outputs? Or would I be better off selling it and picking up a used MOTU 828?
wetterberg
I believe that whatever donglism DigiDesign put in place to tie the hardware to the software won't be affected by shorting out capacitors. And yes, removing the short would return it to normal.

Also, the 828mk1 may work, but it certainly ain't no modern audio interface, if you follow me. It's a ten year old design.
1nput0utput
I've tested a Digidesign 192 and an Mbox. Neither one has DC-coupled outputs. Based on that, I'd expect that the 002 doesn't either.

For those who have successfully modded an interface to bypass the DC-blocking caps, I'd be interested in seeing pictures. I tried to figure out which caps to short on a spare Mbox, but I couldn't get it to work. Maybe if we see how you did it, we'll be able to figure out how to mod other models. It would be great to have a list of interfaces where this mod was successful, and each item could have a picture highlighting which caps to short.
wetterberg
Perhaps if you post up some clear pictures of the mbox pcb we can discern which caps you'll want to fiddle with?
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