MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

220 Volts over XLR plug
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author 220 Volts over XLR plug
floris
Is it safe to send 220 Volts over and XLR plug and XLR socket?
I'll be using normal electric cable and a 100 watt lamp.

XLR would be the easiest option,
Speakon looks a bit too large for my use.
Other smaller sockets & plugs might be fine too.
JohnLRice
eek! I'd say do NOT do this as the potential for accidentally frying equipment and people is way to high! MY ASS IS BLEEDING BOOM!

Can you explain in detail what you are trying to accomplish? Why won't a standard electrical extension cord work? hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it
Jarno
Neutrik does have Powercon connectors, which are specifically aimed at mains power.
If you do use xlr, use something specific like 4 pin or something else (if xlr is rated for mains voltages in the first place). As John mentioned, so you can't damage anything, because if something can go wrong, it will.
floris
thanks for the advice

there need to be 4 connectors on my frontplate.
a round connector is easier to drill and one as small as an XLR would fit perfectly.

I've seen the speakon connectors, but can't find them with a metal chassis.
floris
yes, 4-pin seems like a good idea,
but I can't find if they can handle 220V for my 100W lamps
floris
Neutrik NAC3 MPB-1 looks doable, but connectors for these are expensive
Jarno
3.50 euro for a chassis part, 5.80 euro for a cable connector. Are you in fact dutch? hihi
JohnLRice
floris wrote:
Neutrik NAC3 MPB-1 looks doable, but connectors for these are expensive
hmmm..... The receptacles are only about $4 and the plugs are about $8 so not significantly more than XLR connectors . . . seems reasonable to me as opposed to trying to use something that wasn't designed for the job and risking fires and electrocution? nodnod
NMNMNMNMNMN
Be aware that the Neutrik power connectors come in several types. Only one is hot pluggable (without a mains switch inserted).

I have these to power my rack. Really sturdy, and great feeling when you insert the jack smile

https://www.thomann.de/nl/neutrik_nac3fx_powercon.htm
https://www.thomann.de/nl/neutrik_nac3_mpx_true1.htm

It also comes with a seal to make it IP72762762(whatever) compliant.
https://www.thomann.de/nl/neutrik_scnac_mpx.htm

(The true series are for hot swapping)
http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon/powercon-true1/
Rex Coil 7
A potential problem I see is an XLR connector may not have enough space between it's internal pins to prevent 220v from being able to jump across them. There needs to be enough of an air gap to prevent arcing between pins and solder buckets.

I do not know if a buck standard XLR connector does, in fact, have sufficient air gap between it's internal terminals and solder buckets or not. It's just an issue I would look into if it were me.

This reminds me of another issue, fuse ratings. I always (try to) use 250v voltage ratings on any fuses used in any given system. The burn-open rating is specified by the AMPERAGE rating of the fuse. It's voltage rating does not affect how much amperage a fuse requires before it does it's job and burns open. Why use a high voltage rating? Because higher voltage specs means the fuse element will burn open with a longer air gap between the burned ends of the fuse element. At 250v the element must burn open "wider" to create a wide enough air gap to prevent 250v from jumping (arcing) across the burned open fuse ends. This provides a bit heavier safety measure, since the fuse will open with a nice wide air gap and do a better job of fully opening and preventing the conduction of electricity.

So, for instance, if you're installing fuse holders in line for mains protection, and your mains are 115v, it's good to use a fuse rated at 250v rather than 125v. The voltage rating won't have any affect on the fuse's ability to open when there's more current flowing than the fuse rating permits. Only the CURRENT spec is what needs to be adhered to.

I've been doing this in a professional setting for decades when replacing fuses in auxiliary generator systems. It just adds a bit more safety factor.

K, by. cool
melodydad
FWIW the original Fairlight had an XLR type power connector and as far as I remember it was 3 -pin - but I think the two main pins were shielded in some way. This was of course nearly 40 years ago . . . . .
mskala
Mouser's parametric search allows you a specify a voltage rating when you search for XLR connectors. Many are rated for 250V; a few go as high as 1kV; some adapters, but no connectors as such in the database, are rated for 1.5kV; many others have lower limits. So it seems clear that you can get XLR connectors that will withstand 220V, but it's not a gimmie if you just say "XLR connector" - you need to look at specific models.

It's probably not a good idea to use XLR connectors for 220V power, because of the danger of accidentally confusing them with other uses of XLR connectors, but that's a different question.
tojpeters
4 pin XLR are very common as power connectors in 4U/Serge land. For 12/15 volts.
Rex Coil 7
mskala wrote:
Mouser's parametric search allows you a specify a voltage rating when you search for XLR connectors. Many are rated for 250V; a few go as high as 1kV; some adapters, but no connectors as such in the database, are rated for 1.5kV; many others have lower limits. So it seems clear that you can get XLR connectors that will withstand 220V, but it's not a gimmie if you just say "XLR connector" - you need to look at specific models.

It's probably not a good idea to use XLR connectors for 220V power, because of the danger of accidentally confusing them with other uses of XLR connectors, but that's a different question.
Very interesting find, *mskala. I hadn't looked up XLRs for AC power before, had no idea they were available for higher voltage applications.

However, disconnecting it without powering down (or best yet, unplugging power from the wall outlet) first would probably just about burn the contact tips right off of the connector!! ZZZAAAPPPO!

Not to mention give you a really good startle!! eek! Flamed!

Given everything that's at stake, I'd opt out of this as a solution. But, then again it's not my project.

Sooooo ...... yea ...... seriously, i just don't get it
andrewF
I have some XLRs designed for mains voltages, they are red and the pin configuration is different. Probably not a good idea to use regular ones.

tho I remember Ken Stone used midi connectors and plugs to supply high voltage to his tube synth, when asked about it he called it the MIDI plug of death Dead Banana
HighLordFixer
avoid using 3 pin XLR....
use a non standard pin config male/female
because it's too easy for them getting accidentally plugged into the wrong jack
obviously that is BAD
mskala
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
However, disconnecting it without powering down (or best yet, unplugging power from the wall outlet) first would probably just about burn the contact tips right off of the connector!! ZZZAAAPPPO!

Not to mention give you a really good startle!! :eek: :flamed:


Yeah, speaking of which - you really want the power to flow from the female contacts to the male contacts, not the other way around. And that goes for almost any other type of connector, too. Otherwise, you can have male contacts live with 220V on a disconnected cable or socket, and a serious risk of fingers touching them.
Jarno
andrewF wrote:
I have some XLRs designed for mains voltages, they are red and the pin configuration is different. Probably not a good idea to use regular ones.

tho I remember Ken Stone used midi connectors and plugs to supply high voltage to his tube synth, when asked about it he called it the MIDI plug of death Dead Banana


I used 5 pin DIN (MIDI) for the power connector to the first eurorak I built, seemed convenient since I used two sets of rails (+/-12v and +/-15v). But there is so much wiggle on the contacts of the chassis connector that they can touch eachother, took me a while before I realised this was the cause for one of the rails sometimes failing....

I'd go for Neutrik Powercon, it is robust, not too expensive, meant for the application. Ideal candidates. Either that or stick with IEC power connectors:
floris
Thanks for all the answers.
I know about the red XLR like plugs but can't find them.
So I bought small Bulgin connectors in the end.
Graham Hinton
floris wrote:

I know about the red XLR like plugs but can't find them.
So I bought small Bulgin connectors in the end.


They were called XLR-LNE and were withdrawn because they did not meet safety requirements. Neither did the round Bulgin ones, they were derated.

Do not use any XLR for mains, it's just sheer ignorance and stupidity. There are plenty of proper mains power connectors for panel inlets and outlets, do not use ANY audio connector, and make sure that your wiring behind the panel is fully insulated.
floris
is there any info why the Bulgin ones are derated?
I just bought some here:

https://benl.rs-online.com/web/c/connectors/power-connectors/compact-p ower-connectors/?searchTerm=bulgin%20miniature
Graham Hinton
floris wrote:
is there any info why the Bulgin ones are derated?


There is a warning on the product pages that these connectors should only be used for mains if inaccessible, otherwise 50V max. They are used on Weller TCP 24V soldering irons.

The main problem with them is that the cable socket cover easily shatters leaving exposed live wiring sticking out of a panel. They used to be on a lot of equipment before IEC C13/C14 connectors became available, now there is no point. It's not cool to look retro if it kills you.
mskala
Graham Hinton wrote:
It's not cool to look retro if it kills you.


It may not be retro, but it's very goth!
Jarno
Graham Hinton wrote:
It's not cool to look retro if it kills you.


Entry for the "one-liner of the year" competition grin
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group