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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Miniwave ROM extender
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Miniwave ROM extender
plord
Among other great parts of this weekend's AH gathering, Cary Roberts of Retrosynth had on hand a few samples of his Miniwave ROM, which is an SMD tiny daughtercard and ROM containing PPG waves (extracted by Jason Proctor), but, hacked so that instead of the usual 16x16 matrix, you get 32 banks x 64 waves. AND, he had a soldering iron! smile So my Wiard format Miniwave and Hylander expander (with 8 ROMS in it) now has twice as many waves in it, with the addition of a single ROM SlayerBadger!

This video is a demo of the exact thing (or the prototype thereof): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm9m_G0efdI Note the smooth and mesmerizing evolution of the waveshapes smile

I think several of you could/should/will be interested in this. Cary mentioned that he has a few on hand, and could order up the parts for 15 more or so if demand warranted it. These should go for about twice as much as the other third party ROMS, which is a bargain seeing as you get 8x the number of waves. Installation involves soldering 4 tiny teflon wires to individual pins on the ICs of your miniwave.
retrosynth
There's more information and some pictures up here:

http://www.retrosynth.com/gear/minirom/

These are $50 and I have three assembled I can sell immediately and boards for 15 more that will take 2-3 weeks to have assembled.

These will come programmed with the PPG wavetables that Jason Proctor provided. The unit can also be programmed with the data from eight traditional Miniwave EPROMs, however, I do not provide this service. I can build additional programming adapter boards like the one pictured here http://www.retrosynth.com/gear/minirom/minirom_programming_adapter/ for $75.

I don't regularly read this forum so please email me at the address provided here:

http://www.retrosynth.com/addy/
Kwote
hyper

as mentioned 3 weeks and i'm on it.

awesome awesome stuff.
Muff Wiggler
so i'm a little confused - i have a hylander expander with the cv daughterboard, and all ten rom slots are filled

how exactly does this work in that setup - replaces one ROM from the ten? does it replace the CV switching etc?

thanks....i remember first seeing this a while back on Matrixsynth and being pretty pumped but I'm not clear on how it interfaces etc

thanks oops
retrosynth
There's a run through of all the waveform banks on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm9m_G0efdI

The reason I designed the MiniROM was to facilitate loading high resolution (64 waves per bank) wavetables from the PPG into the Miniwave at the request of Jason Proctor. The PPG bank contains 32 banks of 64 waves which takes up 8 times the space of a normal Miniwave ROM. To accomplish smooth PPG style tables this previously would have taken 8 seperate ROMs, a Hylander expander, and some tricky CV switching to turn four 16 wave banks into a contiguous 64 wave bank. The MiniROM accomplishes this by tapping into two extra address bits from the wave A/D converter and an extra address bit from the bank A/D converter. Now that we have 6 bits of wave resolution we can scan through 64 waves through the existing wave CV input. Similarly for the bank CV input.

If you install the MiniROM loaded with the PPG tables it will require its own available socket unless you perform a few modifications to Larry Hendry's VU meter ROM select board. But it's also possible to use the MiniROM in place of the Hylander expander and Larry Hendry's board.

I have a small PIC micro based A/D board that can drive the select lines of a number of the MiniROMs. Currently it uses an 8 pin microcontroller so can only support two stacked MiniROMs acting as 16 discrete ROMs. It does not support a LED readout of the selected ROM. It would be trivial to make a board with a dual seven segment display and microcontroller that supports a few dozen MiniROM boards. I honestly don't see anyone buying that many, but as I've seen fully loaded Hylander boards that is conceivable. I'm not here to cannibalize Hylander's sales though so I haven't done a full featured layout for these. They're mainly to allow me to accomplish what I want behind my stock MiniWave panels with no additional full size boards.

Hope this makes sense.
retrosynth
At this point all preassembled MiniROMs (all three of them) are spoken for. I'll go ahead and have the remaining boards built and they will be ready for shipping in three weeks.

I've received several emails about shipping overseas. I do not have time to calculate shipping and currency exchange rates for everyone. Please use the following site to calculate shipping to your country:

http://ircalc.usps.gov/

The package is a 3oz and will likely be inserted into a business size envelope so it is not lost (the mailing box is small). The origination ZIP code is 94040 in the USA.

I'd suggest sending an extra dollar or two to cover errors in the postage calculator and the extra fees involved for foreign currency.
fluxmonkey
Muff Wiggler wrote:
so i'm a little confused - i have a hylander expander with the cv daughterboard, and all ten rom slots are filled...


coolness... with what ROMs? i only know about 5 from matthew d and 2 from blacet...

b
tragedybysyntax
HIT ME IN FOR ONE OF THOSE! Thanks Cary!!!!
retrosynth
Due to demand I've now animated all the PPG wavetable plots and placed them on the main page:

http://www.retrosynth.com/gear/minirom/

They open in a pop-up window so make sure you allow pop-up windows in your browser before clicking.
Cat-A-Tonic
Quote:
I have a small PIC micro based A/D board that can drive the select lines of a number of the MiniROMs. Currently it uses an 8 pin microcontroller so can only support two stacked MiniROMs acting as 16 discrete ROMs.

...so if you get this PIC A/D board and 2 of the MiniROMs then you can use one for your PPG and another for loading up an additional 16 normal-sized ROMs?
The ROM recording adapter is only useful if you have a ROM burner, right?
Do we have to roll our own in this case?
Is there a chance of someone being willing to load up the other available ROMs onto one of these MiniROMs?
I saw a picture on your sight where you had several of these stacked.
How does this work? Do you need additional PIC boards?
I presume you cannot stack a regular ROM on top of a MiniROM, right?
Sorry, I'm still a bit confused. very frustrating confused

I want dibs on one of the PPG ones. If others can be loaded up (I don't have a ROM burner and don't fancy getting one), especially the scale quantizer, then I'd want a second one too.
retrosynth
Each MiniROM is 4 megabits. This is equal to eight standard MiniWave ROMs, like those that Grant and Matthew Davidson created. The small PIC board I built currently allows addressing of 16 standard ROMs loaded into two MiniROMs. The code is very simple and it could be changed to support more ROMs or different configuration of ROMs.

The programming adapter is only for folks with EPROM programmers that are capable of programming 4 megabit FLASH chips. Most any currently manufactured programmer will work. USB programmers such as the Willem or Top are available on ebay for under $50.

If you already have existing ROMs and have access to a programmer then you can use Grant's tools to shuffle waves and banks around into a usable format. I have some command line tools available to merge the binary 512kbit ROM data into a single file. You can also program the 512kbit chunks individually with most EPROM programmers.

It's conceivable that Hylander would be willing to load Matthew's ROMs into MiniROMs. I haven't talked to him about this and I don't intend to push the issue. It does what I need and I'm quite happy with it.


You could stack a standard 512kbit ROM on top of the MiniROM but you'd need to bend out pin 20 and attach it to whatever ROM select mechanism you were using (Larry Hendry's, front panel switch, rotary switch, etc).
retrosynth
I have 15 MiniROMs with the PPG tables assembled, tested, and ready to ship out. These are available on a first come first serve basis. Priority goes to US residents as shipping overseas is a pain.

Updated page here:

http://www.retrosynth.com/gear/minirom/


Next batch is at least 45 days out and could very well cost more as I won't be hand assembling the next run.

-Cary
sandyb
retrosynth wrote:
Priority goes to US residents as shipping overseas is a pain.
-Cary



goatse.cx
krisp14u
sandyb wrote:
retrosynth wrote:
Priority goes to US residents as shipping overseas is a pain.
-Cary



goatse.cx


I agree!
e-grad
I agree!
retrosynth
I'm not trying to offend those that live outside the US, but honestly, it is time consuming and a hassle to fill out the paperwork necessary to ship abroad. If there is more than enough demand in the US for the first batch (which there appears to be) then it isn't a good use of my time to handle overseas transactions. Even if I charged $100 per MiniROM I'd be losing money with the extra time it takes. I know this because I previously agreed to ship a couple units to France and was not expecting the paperwork hassles it's taken. He'll get his units but it's turned me off of overseas transactions.
vtl5c3
Mmmm.... PPG inside a miniwave. Gotta have one!
Kent
There is nothing complicated about shipping to the E.U. You simply fill out the correct paper work at the post office and declare the real value of the item. One week later, 'Boom' the item is in the owner's hand or waiting for him at the Post Office and there is a friendly notification of "Come get yer shit".

Things only get complicated due to lack of experience or trying to cheat Customs. I've purchased well over 150 things from the United States since moving here.

Was it complicated due to the purchaser trying to get out of paying import duties? That's got nothing to do with you.
Babaluma
i'd have to agree with kent, i'm from the uk originally but have been in japan for 10 years and so have bought and sold A LOT of things overseas without one single problem.
Kent
To be clear: I'm mostly bitter because I'd love to buy one but am totally put off on the whole thing.

I also get very frustrated with Americans that seem timid of the outside world. Probably too much information to share with the group, but it just burns me as it is part of my 'family'. The whole 'We The People' bit.

Then again, if the fellow is selling all he can make, then what's the big difference for his business? None. At least he was honest regarding how he would like to conduct his affairs.
Cat-A-Tonic
He did say the second run would be a bigger batch.
Hopefully he'll realize that the overseas demand (including us ex-pats)
will be enough to warrant his supposed extra paperwork.

We Want Mini-wave ROMs! We Want Mini-wave ROMs!
Roycie Roller
Kent wrote:
To be clear: I'm mostly bitter because I'd love to buy one but am totally put off on the whole thing.

I also get very frustrated with Americans that seem timid of the outside world. Probably too much information to share with the group, but it just burns me as it is part of my 'family'. The whole 'We The People' bit.

Then again, if the fellow is selling all he can make, then what's the big difference for his business? None. At least he was honest regarding how he would like to conduct his affairs.


No need to explain. That's what this- goatse.cx is for hihi
Kwote
don't ever let anyone ask to skip customs. i sold a lot of stuff on ebay and got the request constantly. not declared as a gift ever. always as merch.

werd.

ps: the mini-rom still rocks!!!! hyper
retrosynth
The folks here who say it is no effort to ship overseas have obviously not done so from the US on any regular basis. I have to fill out and print up a bunch of documents. Failure to do so will lead to delays with customs. Each package and accompanying documentation has to be checked by the postal service employee behind the counter. The US postal service does not seem to have proper tools in place to automate this.

There is slim margin on the minirom. The next batch will be even slimmer due to outsourcing assembly (automated). And I'm sure the same crowd who is complaining now will be outraged if I were to charge $100US+ for overseas shipments. But time is money, and my time is worth quite a few dollars per hour.

I don't think any manufacturer (bedroom or full-time) should feel obligated to service all countries at their expense. Who handles warranty? What happens when round-trip shipping and customs fees costs more than the item itself?

I made extra miniroms so I could share with others. I'm not doing it for a business and I don't feel obligated to run it as such.

-Cary
sandyb
retrosynth wrote:
The folks here who say it is no effort to ship overseas have obviously not done so from the US on any regular basis. I have to fill out and print up a bunch of documents. Failure to do so will lead to delays with customs. Each package and accompanying documentation has to be checked by the postal service employee behind the counter. The US postal service does not seem to have proper tools in place to automate this.

There is slim margin on the minirom. The next batch will be even slimmer due to outsourcing assembly (automated). And I'm sure the same crowd who is complaining now will be outraged if I were to charge $100US+ for overseas shipments. But time is money, and my time is worth quite a few dollars per hour.

I don't think any manufacturer (bedroom or full-time) should feel obligated to service all countries at their expense. Who handles warranty? What happens when round-trip shipping and customs fees costs more than the item itself?

I made extra miniroms so I could share with others. I'm not doing it for a business and I don't feel obligated to run it as such.

-Cary


Cary,

Rather than get annoyed at this I would like to offer a solution. If you have a number of people from outside the USA interested in your minirom, I would happily act as lead on a group buy for them. I would coordinate all the orders/payment and send you one payment for the lot. That would mean one package, one trip to the post office for you and one customs form to fill in. i'm sure a flat rate box would be the most economical way to go with shipping. I would then coordinate the onward shipping of the miniroms from here - I'm in Ireland btw so well placed for Europe etc.
What do you think?

Sandy
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