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When will MI Plaits be open sourced?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author When will MI Plaits be open sourced?
donturner
I love the Mutable Instruments open source modules and am currently building a few of them. I would love to build a Plaits but it hasn't yet appeared in Olivier's github. I'm guessing that since Plaits is fairly new he wants to wait a bit before releasing the source.

Just wondering if there's a normal timescale for an MI module to be open sourced? Like, how long was it from Braids being released to it being available on github?
lisa
I think that Olivier said that it will be released after the second batch has sold out (so late summer) but I can’t find the quote now. seriously, i just don't get it
autodafe
yeah they usually allow at least one production run before releasing open sources.
I have read somewehere (Oliver's words) that the new modules are "unsuitable" for DIY. (too complicated/something that can't be done in DIY or requires some special tool/machine/prgrammer ???)
NANO-Jorge
Hmmm that's interesting, now I want to know what kind of process can't be DIY.

autodafe wrote:
yeah they usually allow at least one production run before
releasing open sources.
I have read somewehere (Oliver's words) that the new modules are "unsuitable" for DIY. (too complicated/something that can't be done in DIY or requires some special tool/machine/prgrammer ???)
Jarno
autodafe wrote:
"unsuitable" for DIY.


Sure hope so, because I do think the whole MI DIY thing has gone way beyond the intentions of open source. Apart from some software development, most of the DIY is about simply ordering a PCB and parts and putting it together, not improving/changing the design and learning from that. And I do really hope one of the brightest minds (if not THE brightest) in DSP/ synth/ audio development can continue developing and making excellent stuff.
keninverse
It wouldn't be surprising if the packages are too small for the general diyer...wlcsp/bga. Not impossible but a bit more difficult.
oldenjon
keninverse wrote:
It wouldn't be surprising if the packages are too small for the general diyer...wlcsp/bga. Not impossible but a bit more difficult.

Maybe it has to do more with accessibility. I found this quote on the Mutable forums: "The processor used in Clouds 2 is not currently mass-manufactured by ST"
cygmu
oldenjon wrote:

Maybe it has to do more with accessibility. I found this quote on the Mutable forums: "The processor used in Clouds 2 is not currently mass-manufactured by ST"


That was in response to a question about when the successor to Clouds would appear. I understood Olivier to be saying that he was waiting for the processor to be available in large numbers before manufacturing the module. I could be wrong though — that happens a lot.
cygmu
keninverse wrote:
It wouldn't be surprising if the packages are too small for the general diyer...wlcsp/bga. Not impossible but a bit more difficult.


I guess someone could look inside one and see...
oldenjon
cygmu wrote:

That was in response to a question about when the successor to Clouds would appear. I understood Olivier to be saying that he was waiting for the processor to be available in large numbers before manufacturing the module. I could be wrong though — that happens a lot.

Gotcha. That comment makes more sense now. Yeah I'd also like to see the inside of Plaits. Anyone?
jars
Plaits has an STM32F3 processor (source: av500 took his apart) there is also some shared code for the F3 in pichenettes "stmlib" repository

It could be that the "new Clouds" uses the new STM32H7 which I believe ran into problems with the initial run (I saw messages from distributors saying that there were "manufacturing delays") The H7 is a major upgrade, even from the F7 series, running at 400MHz. insane for a "microcontroller"
av500
Plaits uses the STM32F373. it took me like 30 minutes to trace the schematics, it's so simple and there are barely any traces running on the back of the PCB - as usual the magic is all in Olivier's code.

it should be fairly easy to DIY, in fact you don't even need him to release the schematics to do so, you can start at uPlaits right away wink
Jarno
2HP Braids!
DozenCrows
Plaits is now open source: https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/plaits/open_source/
infovore
NANO-Jorge wrote:
Hmmm that's interesting, now I want to know what kind of process can't be DIY.


Well, the Plaits board is covered in 0402 passives, and I definitely consider those too small for hand-work. 0603 is my limit for hand (and, frankly, eyesight). Otherwise, it's TSSOP and QFP, again, also at my hand-soldering limits.

"Unsuitable" does not mean "can't", but it's pulling no punches: that's a board design for robot assembly.
av500
hint: the hardware schematics and layout are open source, you can make a 0805 Plaits easily...
infovore
av500 wrote:
hint: the hardware schematics and layout are open source, you can make a 0805 Plaits easily...


Oh, absolutely! But the majority asking the 'where's the open-source layout' tend to just want to bang out their own version of the production model, or cram things into less space wink
indigoid
Jarno wrote:
autodafe wrote:
"unsuitable" for DIY.


Sure hope so, because I do think the whole MI DIY thing has gone way beyond the intentions of open source. Apart from some software development, most of the DIY is about simply ordering a PCB and parts and putting it together, not improving/changing the design and learning from that. And I do really hope one of the brightest minds (if not THE brightest) in DSP/ synth/ audio development can continue developing and making excellent stuff.


couldn't agree more

I have a substantial stash of Grayscale MI panels from a few years back when I was a lot more comfortable with the idea of DIYing them — not sure what to do with them now. I really like the Grayscale vibe but I like the original MI panels even more

I guess they could go on BST and help pay for my QMMG later this year grin
Jarno
av500 wrote:
hint: the hardware schematics and layout are open source, you can make a 0805 Plaits easily...


Replaced packages this afternoon, as a kind of excercise to see if this is feasible or not. Certainly seems feasible, replaced resistors with 0805 and capacitors with 0805K, the ADC's with SOIC versions. Really is plenty of space (haven't done the rerouting). Nothing on the rear, which makes sense for industrial manufacturing, but when handsoldering, why not make use of the space.

Not sure if I get around to this, so many other projects, and to be honest I'd hate it if work I did was commercialised by some PCB monger on the market place. Especially since I respect Oliviers work, not just because of the modules, but also his approach to running a business, and I would really hate it if that was to be hurt because of all the cheap mutable clones (I realise this kind of DIY is not for everyone, and that an absurdly small number of sold PCB's actually turns into a working module, but still). So yeah, end of rant.

As an aside, it would be interesting to turn this into a perpendicular mount thing, and make it really slender 8hp or so, row of knobs, row of jacks?
organon
Not sure where you’ve found an ADC here. As far as I see all pots are wired straight to the MCU. Which is probably the reason why Olivier chose the F3, since the onboard ADCs have better specs than the ones on the F4.

With the rest I completely agree. I’d much rather like to see people getting into the code and adding new modes rather than miniaturized knock offs or DIY clones.
av500
organon wrote:
Not sure where you’ve found an ADC here. As far as I see all pots are wired straight to the MCU. Which is probably the reason why Olivier chose the F3, since the onboard ADCs have better specs than the ones on the F4.


probably meant opamps...
Jarno
Ah yes, I thought those MCP6004 were ADC's, but they are indeed opamps.
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