discrete ladder filter and more

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kdjupdal
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discrete ladder filter and more

Post by kdjupdal » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:26 am

I just got installed some new modules I have acquired: 2 Moon reversible mixers, and 3 Oakley modules built by Lower West Side Studio: overdrive, classic vca, and, the discrete ladder filter. :party:
Nice modules!
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JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:09 pm

Nice! :sb:

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Flareless
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Post by Flareless » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:25 pm

Looks like your amplifier goes up to 11!

Your system looks awesome! :tu:
Rich

Lower West Side Studio

What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound - Neil Peart

kdjupdal
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Post by kdjupdal » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:46 am

I've also got the Q150 filter. They are quite similar in sound, except that the discrete filter also got the CP3 mixer input with the famous overdrive effect. That effect is not too interesting and is maybe overvalued, but it is definitely there. The filter sounds really good, and now I am looking to sell the Q150 because I don´t need 2 ladder filters.

Putte
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Post by Putte » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:20 am

Any thoughts on the Discrete Ladder filter, kdjupdal?
I got mine some weeks ago, but have only been able to try it a few times. I´ve compared it a bit to the model D, which probably isn´t fair, but it tends to grow on me.
I red a Review in advance, and it mentioned the Drive function not doing very much. I have to agree, but it´s still a great filter.
I haven´t compared it to my Q150 yet. Don´t know why that didn´t come to mind. I should switch between the model D, the Discrete ladder, and the Q150 one day.

Ha det!

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Flareless
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Post by Flareless » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:42 am

To quote Tony's description page;

The Oakley discrete ladder filter (DLF) is my reworking of the classic 1960's low pass filter module using the circuits from the 904A filter and CP3 mixer and combining them into one excellent sounding module.

I love my Yusynth Minimoog-style filter which is similar to the Q150. The DLF, however, has a different flavour to it. I find it deeper for lack of a better word for sound. I feel It has a more full presence to it.

It might not be a fair comparison between the two if you're trying to hear if the DLF is a good Minimoog filter option. It's a whole different beast!
Rich

Lower West Side Studio

What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound - Neil Peart

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josaka
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Post by josaka » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:45 am

all the moog style filters are very heavily influenced by the input drive one day thet sound like this and one that.. also the cp3 is the same.. moogs 24db sounds wildly different patch to patch.. its a lot of the reason that its tricky nailing that sound.. (the resonance also becomes less pronounced the higher the gain..) most of the difference is gain related.. adds to the mystique :)

personally I always have two filters in series... just for a more lively focused sound.

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Rex Coil 7
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:33 am

josaka wrote: ...personally I always have two filters in series... just for a more lively focused sound.
:agree:

.. y'know, that works so well it's almost as if it should be a common single panel double filter module. Especially putting a State Variable in series with a Transistor Ladder filter (aka "Moog type"). Add a good mixer on the output of the State Variable, putting each ~state~ output on it's own mixer channel. If a dual bus mixer is used clever things may be done with routing bus outs to different destinations as an option (perhaps one bus out could bypass the Ladder Filter while the other bus could be routed into the Ladder Filter ... for example). Lastly, make the pair of filters' order easily swapped via a toggle switch ... or even via a voltage controlled switch. Sooper Dooper powerful and versatile!

If patience and care is taken in the design, all of that can be put into 3MU.

:tu:
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Post by Synthbuilder » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:42 am

Putte wrote:... it mentioned the Drive function not doing very much. I have to agree, but it´s still a great filter.
It's worth trying the drive pot when the resonance is turned up a bit. You should notice a significant difference then. The effect is more subtle at lower resonance settings, although should still be apparent if the level going into the filter is above 4V peak.

Tony

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josaka
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Post by josaka » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:08 am

Rex Coil 7 wrote:
josaka wrote: ...personally I always have two filters in series... just for a more lively focused sound.
:agree:

.. y'know, that works so well it's almost as if it should be a common single panel double filter module. Especially putting a State Variable in series with a Transistor Ladder filter (aka "Moog type"). Add a good mixer on the output of the State Variable, putting each ~state~ output on it's own mixer channel. If a dual bus mixer is used clever things may be done with routing bus outs to different destinations as an option (perhaps one bus out could bypass the Ladder Filter while the other bus could be routed into the Ladder Filter ... for example). Lastly, make the pair of filters' order easily swapped via a toggle switch ... or even via a voltage controlled switch. Sooper Dooper powerful and versatile!

If patience and care is taken in the design, all of that can be put into 3MU.

:tu:
what.. like this? :) (my korgasmatron) :tu:
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bwhittington
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Post by bwhittington » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:50 am

kdjupdal wrote:I've also got the Q150 filter. They are quite similar in sound, except that the discrete filter also got the CP3 mixer input with the famous overdrive effect. That effect is not too interesting and is maybe overvalued, but it is definitely there.
You should try one of the CP3 mixer clones before giving up on the concept. The effect is anything but subtle in that context.

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Rex Coil 7
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:59 am

josaka wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
josaka wrote: ...personally I always have two filters in series... just for a more lively focused sound.
:agree:

.. y'know, that works so well it's almost as if it should be a common single panel double filter module. Especially putting a State Variable in series with a Transistor Ladder filter (aka "Moog type"). Add a good mixer on the output of the State Variable, putting each ~state~ output on it's own mixer channel. If a dual bus mixer is used clever things may be done with routing bus outs to different destinations as an option (perhaps one bus out could bypass the Ladder Filter while the other bus could be routed into the Ladder Filter ... for example). Lastly, make the pair of filters' order easily swapped via a toggle switch ... or even via a voltage controlled switch. Sooper Dooper powerful and versatile!

If patience and care is taken in the design, all of that can be put into 3MU.

:tu:
what.. like this? :) (my korgasmatron) :tu:
Nope. Missing input distributor, state output mixer, and variable slope.

I kinda knew someone was going to put the Korg-type ensemble up as a response. But it's not like what I described. One SV, and one Moog type LPF, switchable order, state dual bus output mixer with discrete outputs for each bus as well as a main out and fully adjustable amount of feedback on each bus. Input polarity control to each filter (so phase cancellation can either be engaged or not). And more.

There's a rather large difference between the Korg ensemble and what I described. But thanks for the input!

:tu:
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Rex Coil 7
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:59 am

bwhittington wrote:
kdjupdal wrote:I've also got the Q150 filter. They are quite similar in sound, except that the discrete filter also got the CP3 mixer input with the famous overdrive effect. That effect is not too interesting and is maybe overvalued, but it is definitely there.
You should try one of the CP3 mixer clones before giving up on the concept. The effect is anything but subtle in that context.
:agree: ... totally!


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fac
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Post by fac » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:15 pm

All my filters are discrete. No signal bleed at all.

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josaka
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Post by josaka » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:25 pm

shuffle.

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LED-man
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Post by LED-man » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:10 pm

Finished mine too (Oakley DLF)
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Xero
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Post by Xero » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:52 am

i've always wondered how they all stack up - i have the yusynth minimoog filter I built....also have the stg mixer which i believe is also moog clone? I tried to do that whole thing anyway, haha.

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Post by Putte » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:40 am

When I got my Discrete Ladder filter, I patched three Q106s to each signal input of it, having the model D three volume knobs for the three oscillators in mind I guess.

I wonder if there is any sound difference if all three oscillators are mixed instead, and then connected with one of the filter signal inputs. I tried that today, but didn´t have the time to compare. The reason I changed this is that I wanted to use the Q149 signal selector to switch between three different filters. That meant I hade to mix the Three signals right after the Q106s.

Perhaps I should add that I mostly work with sawtooth Waves.

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