Designing a module , opinions wanted :)

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Thalassa
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Designing a module , opinions wanted :)

Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:07 am

Updated 18th of September 2019

A year has passed since I've opened the thread and finally I have a prototype version of the module. Since I don't know exactly the interest that could be for a module like this I soon will open a preorder period to gauge interest. In case there are enough preorders the module will be released. In case there are no enough interest I will invest the money in something that people will like more :mrgreen: . Here is the picture of the actual prototype :

Image

Original post

In my goal to be able to offer complete and fully functional systems I'm thinking about a module with basic functions focused mainly in signal processing. The kind of functions that when you have a small system you wish to have or you have them but they take too much space. At this moment this is the configuration that I have.


Image


From top to bottom :

- Glide : basic glide / slew
- Attenuverter : attenuation and inversion
- Inverter : inverts the input signal. Very useful for filter envelopes
- Bipolar to unipolar : Transforms a +/- 5V signals to 0-5V signal. Useful to transform vcos , and lfos into envelope like signals so they can be used with VCAs

As you can see there is space for another function. So my question is , if you were to buy the module what function would like to add ? .

These are some possibilities :

- Unipolar to bipolar ( uses : envelopes from 0-5V to +/-5V )
- 2x gain ( uses : envelopes from 0-5V to 0-10V )
- White and pink noise generator

What do you think? What would you change? What would you add ?

Thank you in advance for your comments.
Last edited by Thalassa on Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Flareless
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Post by Flareless » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:00 am

That's an extremely useful module!

I'd go with the noise for the last option.

I'd say a VCA but I don't see room to squeeze 3 jacks in there.
Rich

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alternating.bit
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Post by alternating.bit » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:10 am

In essence it sounds like you're trying to make a VRG type module?
I imagine anyone who has a S&H unit would already have glide (?)


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Post by pulse_divider » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:39 am

Logical inversion!

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Thalassa
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Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:41 am

Thank you guys for your replies

@Flareless , a noise generator is also my first choice

@alternating.bit it's not a VRG type of module. The VRG is a VC controlled slope generator with an slew input. Mine it is more simple, they are basic functions combined in one module ( attenuation , inversion , slew, signal transformation ). Basic things that you need in your patches. For example you want to patch an inverted envelope to a filter but your filter doesn't have an atttenuverter or and inverter. You just patch the envelope to the inverter and the output will be the envelope from 0 to -5V instead the normal 0 to 5V.

Also these functions will cover a range of basic things that I don't have available in my catalog of modules ( like glide / slew ). I want to be able to offer complete systems so I need theses kind of functions but I don't want to dedicated a module just for glide , or a basic noise generator

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Thalassa
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Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:43 am

pulse_divider wrote:Logical inversion!
That would be for another module dedicated to logic , and gates. Things like logic inversion, gate combiner , gate to trigger etc...

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Post by trentpmcd » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:47 am

I second the noise generator. Seems like a good choice for this type of utility module.

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Post by unrecordings » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:04 am

You might already be aware of this which has some useful functions

http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/tln861/TLN-861.html

other than than, if you don't have a dedicated lag/slew module, then maybe a lin/log option would be good

Noise possibly deserves its own module, but again, if there's currently no noise module then white & pink is a useful addition

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Post by BTG » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:04 am

Noise, but I’d argue that 5U needs a serious noise module along the lines of a euro Sapel, RG6, Marbles, or URA. That said if you have noise and lag then this is just missing S&H...

An x2 would be pretty helpful as well.

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Post by josaka » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:37 am

a ring mod..? S/H + noise ? a good 259 or crazy digital style wavefolder ?
a cv delay/repeater ? an lfo with unusual shapes ?
a burst generator ? some kind of AM/FM aid
..an attenuverter is not that much of a seller for me..

the glide is a great idea .. mayabe with some kind of 'skew' to defing the shapes a bit..lin log and all inbetween ? inverted?.

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Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:00 am

Again thank you!!

I know that for many of you this is not a exciting module but you have to put it in context.

My plan is to offer small full systems ( 20 modules or so ) but fully functional. In order to be able to do it I'm missing several basics functions that are needed to increase the potential of the system. My C109 Multiples / Attenuator was the first step in that direction. The problem is that these kind of functions are already covered by synthesizers.com with really cheap modules, they are so cheap that it's impossible for me to offer this kind modules because it will be a total ruin. The only way to do it is pack a some of those functions in one module, so what I'm trying is to maximize the space/function ratio :) .

About the missing sample and hold , that feature will be covered with the new C105 MKII that will be released during this fall

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Post by BTG » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:28 am

Those who actually use their modulars realize that the exciting modules aren't the ones you need the most :)

Don't worry about competing with dotcom -- Roger's stuff is great and inexpensive, however it's hard to source outside of the USA and, frankly, he makes it difficult to buy from him. You have to go to his Web site, fill out a quote/order form, send that in, get an invoice, pay it, then get tracking information. It's much easier for me to buy a Corsynth module from Noisebug since they're often on Reverb and I can impulse buy.

In addition, while your multiples and attenuators may not be as cheap as Roger's, this is 5U -- which means a lot of people will pay a premium to have a system that is matched. I have some Macbeth 5U and it bothers me to no end that I don't have a Macbeth multiple or VCA (because he never made any!), since I'd like a "matched" system.

Roger's new modules are incredibly feature dense, which is great in some ways (I'm surprised at how handy the A/C reference tone on his VCA++ has been) but also incredibly confusing at times (Envelope++ and LFO++ have way too many hidden modes)

I'm not saying make direct clones of existing modules (although keep in mind that CotK and SW have made decent livings doing that!), but don't shy away from bread and butter modules.

Your modules are some of my favorites. I'd love it if you made:

* 1U VCO w/ Octave switch
* Precision adder/quantizer
* Random noise <-- 5U desperately needs this, as I mentioned
* buffered C109 <-- would buy many of these!

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Thalassa
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Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:37 am

@BTG you have made same good points

Some of the modules that you mention are already on my list :)

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Post by josaka » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:45 am

Those who actually use their modulars realize that the exciting modules aren't the ones you need the most :)
are you saying people here dont 'actually' use their modulars.. ?

you only need a adsr/vca a filter and an ocillator.. the rest is preference..
I like modules that are must have.. utility modules are luxury/necessity depending on the space you have..

I agree that .com should not be a concern .. my only difference of opinion is I think corsynth should be making unique creative must have modules(like 103/104/105/106 over utility modules.. you can see what you sell the most pablo :)

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Post by Thalassa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:13 pm

josaka wrote:k corsynth should be making unique creative must have modules(like 103/104/105/106 over utility modules.. you can see what you sell the most pablo :)
I agree with you , these kind of modules are not even challenging as a designer. But I have the dream to be able to sell a Corsynth 24 :mrgreen: And to be able to do that I need this kind of "boring" modules. But don't worry I'm working also in not so common modules.

This is the second version of the C??? after your suggestions

Image

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Post by BTG » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:25 pm

Thalassa wrote: I agree with you , these kind of modules are not even challenging as a designer.
Correct, but it's just necessary to build the system you want (cases next? :) )
This is the second version of the C??? after your suggestions
I would buy that today to replace my dotcom slew and noise.

One other thought -- instead of octave switch on oscillators, one direction would be an octave switching buff mult that you could use to distribute signals to multiple 1U oscillators (if you were to make some...).

Something similar to the Beast's Chalkboard. I'd love something like this in 5U.

JohnLRice

Re: Designing a module , opinions wanted :)

Post by JohnLRice » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:03 pm

Thalassa wrote:Image
Looks nice 8-) Personally I would make the glide and attenuator sections more full featured?

Glide:
* Switch between constant time and constant rate modes? Just add a toggle switch?

* Up, down, and both directions? You could add a second pot and have one be up and one down so different amounts of up and down glide could be dialed in? Or instead add a toggle switch (center off) to select up only, down only or normal up and down based on the single pot?

* Gated? Add a jack to turn the glide function on and off with a gate etc signal? With nothing plugged into the jack the glide is always ON but plug into the jack and the gide will only be on when a gate or voltage of high enough level is applied? You could also add a toggle switch (or jumper on the back) to select between "Always OFF then ON on Gate" or "Always ON then OFF on Gate"?

* Voltage Controlled? Similar to the Gated suggestion above but the jack would accept CV and the pot would become an attenuator for the CV input.


Attenuator
I would consider making this section more like the Q125 Signal Processor and combining your inverter and bipolar<>unipolar sections into it so you can eliminate the separate input jacks using switch and you could even eliminate the output jacks, although those might be handy to keep?


Room left over?
A simple three jacks and one switch is always handy where you can route an output signal to two different destinations or select between two different signals to go to an input?

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Post by sbuge » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:54 pm

Looks pretty handy module :yay: and JLR has good ideas about signal prosessing section.

I have these two suggestions:

(1)
Is attenuverter producing offset (-10-10V) if there is no plug inserted to input?
To me this is a must have function in this kind of utility modules.

(2)
And you could (or could you :hmm: ) make only one noise output.
And instead of other noise output there would be a CV INPUT for the noise output. Noise can now alter from white to violet, blue, white, pink, brown/red, ... AND now if you have that offset generator you basically have also a potentiometer for different kind of noises (if lfo, sequencer etc. is not available in a small system)?

could this be possible :bananaguitar: :deadbanana: :nana:
x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x
paitapes.bandcamp.com
x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_x

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Post by cornutt » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:05 pm

An adder. Maybe with the output of the attenuverter normalled to one of the inputs.
Sequence 15 -- sequence15.blogspot.com

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Post by josaka » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:21 pm

the idea of a signal boost is a good one.. many folk .. like me ..have moog clones which need a signal boost.. problem is the Q114 has this nailed.. but as an 'extra' it would be great.

still think a 'skew' or offset knob is a great option for glide as you want different slopes all the time.. surprised they are not the 'standard' ..log/lin often doesnt feel right.. with cv.. ! now you are talking.. chow down to acid town.. :)

utility modules are not 'boring' per say.. they just take up valuable space..
so it becomes a choice.. I am sure I am not the only one facing these choices.
:tu: :tu:

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Post by BTG » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:23 pm

given the feedback about the glide, it may sound like adding those features people mention might be a better use of that space and making this module more like a Glide++.

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Re: Designing a module , opinions wanted :)

Post by ericD13 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:50 pm

Thalassa wrote:
What do you think? What would you change? What would you add ?
I never used any glide

I don't understand the +/-5V to 0-5V : do you add 5V and divide by 2 ? Or do you convert negatives to positives (absolute value) ?

I would add
a simple LFO : frequency and pulse and sin outputs (you never have enough LFOs)
a gate to trig converter
a decay enveloppe (with VCA ?)
"Unfortunately it took me forty years to conclude that nothing is possible outside DoReMi."
P. Schaeffer

Lots of 5U modules to sell in europe :
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=219781

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Post by Flareless » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:57 pm

I like the re-design with the noise. I think the way you have it is great and would be a terrific addition to any setup. Particularly a small system or portable.

There are also a lot of other great suggestions which could likely be worked into a second utility module.

I might be stating the obvious but make sure the module can be mounted in an angled cabinet. I know sometimes those bottom jacks can clip the bottom edge of the cabinet depending on where they're placed.

Can't wait to see the production version!
Rich

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Post by daveholiday » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:19 pm

+1 on the added switches to the glide section. I have a dotcom slew limiter and I do use the up / down / both switch quite a bit.

This would open up a slot in my modular by replacing my seldom used noise source and slew limiter from dotcom!

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Post by alternating.bit » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:21 pm

I'm currently not looking to expand my system any but I will just cast my vote in for the noise source. I love having pink/white noise available in all of my cabs.

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