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Massive X
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Author Massive X
hermbot
It looks like Massive really is getting a new version, called Massive X:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synths/massive -x/

This was found in a leak of the contents of Komplete a while ago. It will be available early 2019. It's been confirmed to be a standalone plugin and not built in Reaktor (as some had feared).

I think Massive remains my "desert island" soft synth. I love it to bits.

RitualAudio
FYI, the Massive X plugin's due in early 2019 - https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synths/massive -x/
hermbot
It's funny, you wrote that and I thought "Yeah... that's what I said". Then I looked and saw that I totally wrote the wrong date. fixed!
fishphacurr
Interesting interface- almost looks like Reaktor Blocks. Maybe the individual components will also show up as Blocks?
Panason
Why oh why will they not make a dedicated hardware controller?! 8 knobs on Maschine or their keyboards just doesn't cut it.

Massive is a very strong argument against spending thousands on hardware synths. I wish I would use it but just cannot be bothered to use the mouse to make sounds.

Loving the look of the new GUI.
Chevron87
I am looking forward to this!! The original Massive has got to be one of the most used plug in synths
Entrainer
fishphacurr wrote:
Maybe the individual components will also show up as Blocks?


This would be ideal.
Kravvall
I still have to laugh at the gorilla module every time i see the screenshot.

Really looking forward to this, as i do kicks, snare, and a lot of stuff in massive and hope for a lot of new textures. This looks so promising.
jonne74
Found some leaked PR material. Komplete 12 was heavily discounted, so I couldn't resist. This should be good.

Chevron87
fishphacurr wrote:
Interesting interface- almost looks like Reaktor Blocks. Maybe the individual components will also show up as Blocks?


That is a great idea. I wonder if you can also add your own wavetables a la Serum?
DT
was about to purchase Serum but maybe worth to wait a little what are you guys thinking?
Rex Coil 7
Panason wrote:
Why oh why will they not make a dedicated hardware controller?! 8 knobs on Maschine or their keyboards just doesn't cut it.

Massive is a very strong argument against spending thousands on hardware synths. I wish I would use it but just cannot be bothered to use the mouse to make sounds.

Loving the look of the new GUI.
There's this dude in Germany (I think) that builds these really excellent hardware controllers for various VSTs. The controllers look nearly EXACTLY as the VSTs do. He made this one particular controller for what is most likely the most killer VST of the Oberheim polyphonic synths ever made called the OPX Pro II. I have the OPX Pro II ... it goes far FAR beyond old OBX and OBXa emulations ... and his controller is this passionate labor of love.

I'll see if I can locate him ... I haven't checked his website in a couple/few years ... he may have a MASSIVE controller by now. Ya just never know about things like that.

Goldfish
Rex Coil 7
Interesting banter in some Massive X promo:

(begin quotes)

Published on Sep 7, 2018
The synth that spawned a subculture is a tough act to follow, but the forthcoming sequel is more extreme, more expressive, and more expandable in every way. Available from February 2019, MASSIVE X is the stuff of sound designers’ dreams.

Discover MASSIVE X: https://www.native-instruments.com/pr...

Whether making beats from the bedroom, designing sound in the studio, or moving crowds on the main stage, music making is about getting your ideas out. Our biggest release ever features nine new products and three major platform updates designed to help you do just that.


Captain Jack Aubrey of the Royal Navy - 2 months ago
Literally never been this hyped for a freaking soft synth!

Will it be able to open original Massive presets?

Kristiaan Kristiaan - 2 months ago
No, apparently the two instruments aren't at all compatible. I read online somewhere yesterday.

CADILLAKTRACKZ - 2 months ago
Kristiaan Kristiaan horrible

Clyde Hawkins - 2 months ago
Horrible? Since when are new synths backwards compatible with old presets? lol you can't even use presets from different update versions of the same synth. and considering everything running in it is completely different, it would be impossible

Invincibility Glitch - 2 months ago
NI says on the website that they will live side by side. Two different entities.

7thgroove - 2 months ago
Probably live side-by-side like Logic 9 and Logic X. Too bad it wont be able to open previous Massive presets though, but just not save them in Massve previous, like Logic does.

Versace MakesMusic - 2 months ago

NI says that it is just a new soft synth, massive X won't replace the original, so I guess the new one will be radically different.
Maybe some sort of digital modular? There plenty of startups developing this kind of concept so I wouldn't be surprised at all if that new synth will look more like "reaktor blocks PRO" than anything else.

House Music Production - 2 months ago
This synth has nothing to do with Massive

Shadowhenge - 2 weeks ago
No, and you can bet your butt that all the new expansions that come out wont have massive presets, just x... till youre forced to upgrade your komplete or buy x outright to use half of them.

Ryan Waclaw - 1 week ago
Clyde Hawkins electra2 and electrax presents are cross compatible lmao

(end quotes)

So this is interesting. Massive X isn't an uprate, it's an all new soft synth altogether. As versatile as Massive appears to be all on it's own, Massive X has got to be some sort of psycho shit in it's own right.

I don't own Massive, I've never even used it. But, from what I've seen/heard it was one of the heavy reasons that I decided to move forward with building a new computer specifically to run Live and VSTs within it.

I truly love wavefolded sounds, wavetable shit, hard sync screwball stuff, "FM" and phase modulated stuff, Virtual Analog synths, and modeled synths. Every bit as much as I love 1960s R.A Moog 901-series VCO and VCF sounds and old Minimoog sounds. So running Massive is a .... well ... uh .... (ahem) ... *massive reason why I am going through the headache and expense to build a new music computer with all of the latest high speed/low drag "low latency"-yet-stable-parts-made-of-munny components.

Other than DEXED, I'm not aware of any other wave-foldy/FM-y/wavetable-ish/sound fuckulator VST out there that does what Massive can do. (Yep, fully aware that DEXED and Massive are two totally different critters).



* meh ... yeaaaa ... I said that. ... and I'l not apologize for my indiscretion.

lol Mr. Green razz
Panason
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
There's this dude in Germany (I think) that builds these really excellent hardware controllers for various VSTs. The controllers look nearly EXACTLY as the VSTs do. He made this one particular controller for what is most likely the most killer VST of the Oberheim polyphonic synths ever made called the OPX Pro II. I have the OPX Pro II ... it goes far FAR beyond old OBX and OBXa emulations ... and his controller is this passionate labor of love.

I'll see if I can locate him ... I haven't checked his website in a couple/few years ... he may have a MASSIVE controller by now. Ya just never know about things like that.

Goldfish


That could be good but what is usually the case with small projects like that is that the devices end up costing almost as much as buying a nice hardware synth, because of all the knobs and buttons required and the small scale of manufacturing.

I 'm not down with the whole "everything is made in China for peanuts" business but we do need a mass produced controller here and it doesn't have to be Behringer levels of cheap...

The first to make an affordable programmable synth desktop controller (no keyboard) with enough knobs and screen real estate is going to hit the jackpot... It's unbelievable that this hasn't been done properly yet and all we have is the crappy old Novation RemoteSL Zeros (toy quality) and the even older very bulky Mackie C4 with its inadequate calculator screens....

Companies will hopefully get the message that not everyone is happy with using iPads for "hands on" control of soft synths.

Of course something like Massive has dozens and dozens of controls so a knob-per function device would be impossible but with intelligent mapping and organisation of pages, a 32-knobs-and-buttons device would be great.
Rex Coil 7
Panason wrote:
.... a 32-knobs-and-buttons device would be great.
.. a pair of Doepfer Pocket Electronics kits. Each one has sixteen knobs/buttons/whatevers that the user gets to decide what MIDI channel and which CC/NRPN it sends control messages to. You can easily chain two (3?, 4?, 10?) of those together to create as large a controller needed.

They offer up to 128 onboard presets, infinite amounts of presets may be stored on your computer. The configuration program is a free of charges download.

It's a DIY kit, but it's ridiculously simple to construct. Put sixteen knobs in a box with sixteen holes drilled in it. The knobs wire up to a pair of pre-terminated "pigtails" that plug on to the PCB. So one end of each of the two pigtails is bare ended wires, the other end has a multi-pin connector that just plugs on to the board.

Each of the sixteen controls may be a knob, switch, joystick, or even a jack to connect foot switch or expression pedal to. It's your controller, you decide how it will be configured. The kit comes with a 100% pre-constructed and fully tested PCB, two bared ended pigtails, and few other niggles. The board has two 5 pin DIN MIDI jacks (one IN, one OUT), and a standard Boss-type power input jack.

$110.00 U.S. buckaroos.

LINK = http://analoguehaven.com/doepfer/pocketelectronics/

So with minimal DIY skills, a drill, a soldering pen, some imagination, and some pots/switches/whatevers to can cook up your own MIDI controller.

No DIY skills? Commission a willing party to do it for you.

I have one of the kits ... I've yet to decide what I'm going to do with it, but having committed to Ableton I may have that choice laid out before me!

thumbs up
liquid234


Somewhat clearer close-up. Let’s hope it’s an early February release!
Chevron87
It sure is going to be fun checking out a new version of such a landmark synth

Are those macros at the top, 2 lots of 8?
Panason
Hopefully NI finally have a 16 knob controller in the works.
zeit
I agree...would love to see more 16 knob controllers with multiple banks...eight is just not enough.
hermbot
zeit wrote:
I agree...would love to see more 16 knob controllers with multiple banks...eight is just not enough.


I picked up one of these for use with Reaktor Blocks and other modular-type software, it's brilliant. Each knob can be assigned different functions whether it's being pushed or not, so each bank is actually 32. And there are four banks you can cycle through with buttons on the side. And the push itself can be assigned to things. And they can be set to have a center detent... it just keeps going.

https://store.djtechtools.com/products/midi-fighter-twister
zeit
Wow, I didn't realize it had that much functionality....four banks is more than enough, I'll have to get one of those. Using it with Reaktor Blocks would be extremely nice. w00t
a100user
Delivery slipped to June unfortunately

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.native-2Dinst ruments.com_en_products_komplete_synths_massive-2Dx_-3Fsscid-3D11k3-5F f3haf&d=DwMFaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=n3RvlQX B_AKHwJaaSelasUU5Ghw2N6Tt-OxS2HHKkQQ&m=ObaLyD1GwYdeTv57weKn0QVXUJeKYUz Uo_xadbgo8gY&s=_9ppsZXvNE9aKRY2jELNOSXgrv4jWxaaCm1G9fLg78Y&e=
Panason
hermbot wrote:
zeit wrote:
I agree...would love to see more 16 knob controllers with multiple banks...eight is just not enough.


I picked up one of these for use with Reaktor Blocks and other modular-type software, it's brilliant. Each knob can be assigned different functions whether it's being pushed or not, so each bank is actually 32. And there are four banks you can cycle through with buttons on the side. And the push itself can be assigned to things. And they can be set to have a center detent... it just keeps going.

/midi-fighter-twister


These toys look cool and seem useful but in practice they are not ... because they don't have a display to show what you're controlling. Especially if you switch to another bank, lol. Colour coding isn't enough.
A large programmable controller with displays above the encoders would transform the world of music software and make expensive hardware synths even less needed.
hermbot
Panason wrote:
hermbot wrote:
zeit wrote:
I agree...would love to see more 16 knob controllers with multiple banks...eight is just not enough.


I picked up one of these for use with Reaktor Blocks and other modular-type software, it's brilliant. Each knob can be assigned different functions whether it's being pushed or not, so each bank is actually 32. And there are four banks you can cycle through with buttons on the side. And the push itself can be assigned to things. And they can be set to have a center detent... it just keeps going.

/midi-fighter-twister


These toys look cool and seem useful but in practice they are not ... because they don't have a display to show what you're controlling. Especially if you switch to another bank, lol. Colour coding isn't enough.


Whew, I'm glad you're here to tell me what I've found useful!
slowpilgrim
This looks great, old massive always felt really clunky/aged to me compared to newer vsts so I'm glad the UI will open up this wicked synth.
Panason
hermbot wrote:


Whew, I'm glad you're here to tell me what I've found useful!


I suppose I should change my username to IMO ! seriously, i just don't get it

They are better than nothing .. but in my experience they are best dedicated to controlling a handful of parameters as there are only so many assignments I can memorise (forgotten if I leave the rig alone for a few weeks) and I always end up gravitating back to the mouse ( a trackball makes it less painful).

If they had displays you could program them to control all your gear and plugins, and switch between controlling different devices as needed. Native Instruments and Ableton have been trying to do this with Maschine and Push, but it's still a very superficial/ half cooked implementation on both... not enough knobs and badly utilized buttons and/or display real estate.

I'm contacting them to offer my UI design services. lol
Rex Coil 7
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't realize the MIDIFighters stuff was already covered in this thread.

Movin' on anyway ....

Panason wrote:
Why oh why will they not make a dedicated hardware controller?! 8 knobs on Maschine or their keyboards just doesn't cut it.

Massive is a very strong argument against spending thousands on hardware synths. I wish I would use it but just cannot be bothered to use the mouse to make sounds.

Loving the look of the new GUI.
MIDIFighters "Twister" .... outstanding MIDI controller with 4 banks of 16 knobs (so 64 knobs). Each knob has a push-button function (push the knob down like a button) as well as a "Super Knob" function (push and hold the knob down while turning it). LED rings around each knob inform of the knob's position ... change functions or programs and the LED rings show where each knob is "set". Each knob may be assigned to any MIDI CC, on any MIDI channel (per knob!). I have the Twister ... the knobs ~feel~ better than most high end analog hardware synths, even those on my 5U modular.

$220.00 plus shipping is what they go for. I bought mine during the Christmas holidays when they were on sale for $199.99 and free shipping. Best MIDI controller I've ever owned. I also bought a MIDI Fighters "3D" ... the one with the arcade buttons and the motion sensor. So I have the Twister and the 3D. Amazingly useful MIDI controllers, and I've no trouble recalling which bank I'm in ... color coding is simple to recall, especially when you are the one that actually sets up and picks out the colors, and which controls are assigned to which MIDI CC. It's no more difficult that remembering that the red knob on your hardware synth is the VCF cutoff (or whatever).

There is configuration software that programs each knob's function ... the software is a free of charge download.

The entire enclosure is covered in a rubber-like material, as are the knobs themselves. The "Twister" has excellent capability. 64 knobs, 64 buttons, 64 push-and-turn "super knobs". There are also three push buttons located on each side (total of six push buttons) of the enclosure.

The Twister may also be configured as a sequencer.

Sold at "DJ TechTools" only.

LINK =
https://www.midifighter.com/

Or lookumup on the googulz.

cool




Panason wrote:
These toys look cool and seem useful but in practice they are not ...
Oh really! ... so I take it you didn't like yours then ... y'know, the one you bought and used with your system?

Panason wrote:
Especially if you switch to another bank, lol.
That's too bad, I'm sorry you didn't like yours.



Oh wait ... you've never even held one in your hand, let alone ever used one (if I recall properly).

Panason wrote:
Colour coding isn't enough.
Isn't enough for you.

They certainly seem to be enough for all of us that actually own them. And I don't see anyone in the numerous video depicting the Twister in use having trouble knowing which bank they're in. These things have been produced for over five years now (in various configurations). And since they're hand made, the builders must be wasting an awful lot of their time building them to fill orders ... y'know since the Twister is so useless and all.

Funny, they sell very well (new) but you rarely see them for sale (used) on eBay or Reverb, or even here in Miffwugglers. Must be that owners are unwilling to let go of them.

But how can that be, since they're so useless and clumsy?

meh
Panason
OK yeah but when I'm doing music I'm often high as a kite and remembering multiple knob assignments isn't on the menu... nanners I would need at least one of those knob boxes for each synth or plugin and that is just too much.

Anyway... Where Is Massive X? This is fun!
rens
I love the twister! it replaced my bcr2k a while back for software control (mainly channel eq/comp/limit but have been using lots of arturia sem v recently) and, via an iconnectivity box, it also gives me basic remote control of my hardware.

Rex Coil 7 wrote:

Sold at "DJ TechTools" only.


Here in the uk amazon seems to have started carrying them.
Entrainer
Panason wrote:

Anyway... Where Is Massive X? This is fun!


Looks like they changed the date to June 2019:
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synths/massive -x/
hermbot
Bummer on the new release date. But, given the high-profile launch I imagine it's worth it to delay rather than launch to less than stellar reviews due to bugginess. It's hard to shake that moniker once it becomes part of the zeitgeist.
Entrainer
hermbot wrote:
Bummer on the new release date. But, given the high-profile launch I imagine it's worth it to delay rather than launch to less than stellar reviews due to bugginess. It's hard to shake that moniker once it becomes part of the zeitgeist.


Yes, it's true. I'm sure it'll be worth the wait, better to postpone and deliver something less than stellar.
skunk_hour
Really not crazy about the look of the interface, but I'm excited for the synth. Massive always seemed like a synth that got unfairly pigeonholed into "dubstep" sounds, but it can do a lot more. I can only imagine how it'll sound with proper filters (the original's filters sound really dated).
jonne74
Sneaky release, I don't remember getting any notifications. I just randomly saw Sonic Lab review it on Youtube. Anyway, I've been playing around with it for a while. I really like the reverbs. Tweaking the color dial gives some nice sweet spots depending on the sound.

The modulation looks daunting.
wminor
Had play with this for about 20 mins or so this morning. Initial reactions:

- Sounds great, no doubt about it.
- UI is buggy. Changing things in dropdown menus kills the sound until I move another control. I'm sure this will be ironed out soon
- The modulators look really flexible, but don't feel the most intuitive to use. Maybe I just need to RTFM, but compared to Serum they feel kinda clunky.
- Where's the Phase Mod section?! (edit: found it!)
- The performers (I assume that's what the P stands for) look very interesting, but aren't at all useful if you don't have a large keyboard. Seems like low midi notes can be used to switch between them, but that's a pain if you only have a 2 octave controller. Maybe this is configurable?
- Lack of visual feedback for envelopes is surprising. Hope they fix this!
jdaddyaz
Got my hands on it today as well. Totally agree with wminor.
-That UI is in need of some updates. One of the most annoying things is when you try to turn a knob with a mouse it goes AWOL, and is really sensitive to mouse movement. Luckily its not the same when I change it on my Push. Also the drop down menu interruption, although very brief, is certainly something that needs a little attention. Maybe they were going for an OG analog immersion, I don't know. Also, when working on two monitors, a couple of the drop down menus end up on the other screen, even if Massive isn't near the monitors border. Not a big deal but still a little weird. By far the most annoying of all these little blips is mouse movement which again, is extremely sensitive. Really annoying when trying to fine tune stuff. I'm sure it'll be patched soon, but kind of strange they overlooked something so fundamental.
-Sound is really nice, and the housed presets do a nice job of demonstrating the type of range you can achieve with tweaking. The engine also allows for some deep noodling here. I like the ability to add LFO/EVN as you see fit, instead of just having 2 LFOs, and 2 Env, etc.
-They were really going for a hybrid type of feel here. The routing is done ala Reaktor connecting virtual wires, however it's not as tedious as Reaktor can be with loading individual models and then connecting them, with wires and all of that. Knob assigning is done by drag and drop, just like OG massive.
-It has a very Reaktor ish look to it (as many have already observed) even down to the level bar at the top right.
-There isn't much in the way of visual feedback, which is sort of a shame, as so many vst synths these days offer really nice feedback about your LFOs, envelopes, and other modulations. I can't for the life of me locate an oscilloscope of some type.
-I still have to figure out how to utilize the performer options to add some depth to my patches, but it certainly offers some opportunities to get really creative.
-I really like the ease of assigning knobs to manual modulation functions. It's super easy, and if you have something like a Push controller, makes tweaking almost instant.
-One more thing. As of right now, this thing is a cpu hog. When playing some patches, and simple chord progressions, I'm getting up to 28% CPU usage. That's higher than I've ever had with Diva (with multi-core activated). That's going to probably need some optimization.

Overall it's a really great sounding synth, that has room to grow. It also offers tons of modulation options, that allow for some pretty cool patching. None of the complaints mentioned have ruined the experience, as odd as it is that N.I. overlooked them. I'm sure they'll get patched pretty soon. I just hope that they add some sort of visual feedback, even if it's just another window for an oscilloscope. That said, people are going to really enjoy this, and good or bad, we're going to hear a lot of it on many tracks for years to come.

Thinking back on it, there really has been a lot of great offerings lately, with stuff like Pigments, Hive 2.0, Omnisphere 2.6, and VCV Rack 1.0 coming out recently. It's really a great time for those who don't mind working in the box.
Kummer
This thing is a big let down for me. There is lots of work they still need to do in my opinion... If I had known how this would have turned out this way, I wouldn't have upgraded to Komplete 12
sitarman
If you have an older CPU that does not support AVX, Massive X will not run on your system! Buyer beware.
Monotremata
sitarman wrote:
If you have an older CPU that does not support AVX, Massive X will not run on your system! Buyer beware.


Yep NI just killed their entire tower Mac Pro user base heh. I was about to upgrade Komplete this month too just for it but nah, no more money from me.
FireApple
Watched the entire release unfold yesterday over several different forums, it was an entertaining day!

Sounds great but NI really fucked up with this one. Too ambitious? The whole thing feels really rushed and totally unfinished. I'd love to chip with my thoughts after playing with it but NI says NO YOUR CPU IS WAY OLD, DUDE. I'm glad I don't need another softsynth.

the whole thing with having a static graphic for the envelope. Ni what are you doing?
FireApple
OMG that was my first post! SlayerBadger!
ambientnoise
Monotremata wrote:
sitarman wrote:
If you have an older CPU that does not support AVX, Massive X will not run on your system! Buyer beware.


Yep NI just killed their entire tower Mac Pro user base heh.


I have a 2015 MBP which is fairly still new.. Downloaded the demo and all of a sudden my laptop starts roaring and overheats. Not good mad Looks like no Massive X for me..
Panason
NI stuff usually sounds great but everything else about their software in recent years tends to be a Massive PITA. Native Access should be renamed to Native Ass.
wminor
Panason wrote:
NI stuff usually sounds great but everything else about their software in recent years tends to be a Massive PITA. Native Access should be renamed to Native Ass.


Huh, weird, I find Native Access to be one of the better installation / activation management programs I use. It's always worked fine for me and is extremely simple to use.
jonne74
wminor wrote:
Panason wrote:
NI stuff usually sounds great but everything else about their software in recent years tends to be a Massive PITA. Native Access should be renamed to Native Ass.


Huh, weird, I find Native Access to be one of the better installation / activation management programs I use. It's always worked fine for me and is extremely simple to use.


Yeah, it's very straight forward. Waves on the other hand.. I can never remember how or which whatsitsname to choose.
jdaddyaz
Waves authorization thing gives me nightmares to this day. Really good plugins ins, but really clunky authentication process. Especially when opening up a DAW. Takes forever to scan Waves vsts. Thank God for the option txt.
twistedneck
Was messing with Massive X over the weekend and it was very easy to authorize, just login that's it.

The sounds are insane and crushing, evolving, however I can't be kept from my modular stuff enough to get good with it!

Still, I had the laptop hooked up to NI all night and my friends were fighting for the keyboard.

PS. this is my first post to MuffWiggler! hello.
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