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Synth repair (SIDStation)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author Synth repair (SIDStation)
revtor
Not really sure where to put this... Ive got a SID Station that doesn't boot up, and Elektron doesn't want to deal with it. Makes me so sad to have one of my all time favorites, and Elektrons first baby, sit here silent.

Elektron said try to reflash the Rom, and sent me the ROM image. I of course have no way of doing this. Overall its beyond my level, All onboard voltages at the IC's look okay, so I'm really hoping it is the ROM..

So does anyone know of anyone who would be comfortable with the ROM business and diagnosing/troubleshooting a SID Station?

Anyone ever had one repaired? Who'd you use?

thanks for any idears

~Steve
J3RK
There are a few things. This is from memory, so I'd have to look into it a bit more for specifics. First thing, is that it could be the ROM. If I remember correctly, this is stored on the HC11 MCU. I can't remember if there's some form of jumper on the board, or if you have to pull it and program it in a programmer. It's been a LONG time for that part. I do know that a friend and I dumped that before, but it was maybe 20 years ago?

The other thing, is that there is a battery backed SRAM in there. It's the big fat black socketed box on the board. You can still get them, but I don't think they're made anymore. I found them several months back when someone asked about them. Just can't remember where. You'll want to get the part number off of it, and search.

If I remember correctly that has more to do with patch storage being persistent after reboots, but it's possible that there's some boot code on it. I don't know for sure.

I'm pretty sure it can also be updated via MIDI, but that would require that it be able to be booted in the first place. What are the exact symptoms when you turn it on. Do you see anything at all?

Also, did Elektron happen to give you any directions for doing this?
revtor
The unit powers up but does not boot. all the leds come on and the screen lights up, the top bar of the screen is dark (solid block characters) while the bottom of the screen is green but blank. Here’s the response I got from Elektron’s tech. :

I am deeply sorry for this late reply.
Usually, the issue is that the PAL chip needs to be re-flashed, if the unit lights up, but does not boot into the software.

You would need an EEPROM programmer, do you know if your tech has that?

So that’s what I got....

Thanks again
-Steve
J3RK
revtor wrote:
The unit powers up but does not boot. all the leds come on and the screen lights up, the top bar of the screen is dark (solid block characters) while the bottom of the screen is green but blank. Here’s the response I got from Elektron’s tech. :

I am deeply sorry for this late reply.
Usually, the issue is that the PAL chip needs to be re-flashed, if the unit lights up, but does not boot into the software.

You would need an EEPROM programmer, do you know if your tech has that?

So that’s what I got....

Thanks again
-Steve


I have a relative that had one for this before. I can ask him if he still does. I'm not sure which IC that is from memory. Can you grab a pic of the main board?
revtor
Pics of the SID guts are here.. mins is the same
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-elect ronic-music-production/1207793-info-internal-battery-change-elektron-s id-station.html

On mine,
The square ic is ToshibaTMP68HC11A
The big Dallas sram brick is DS1230Y-200
The one right adjacent to the Dallas is AMD. AM29F010N

The only other big guy is Mr SID himself and then a bunch of logic type stuff
J3RK
Heh, I was wondering where it was I posted that hihi I knew I had recently talked about the SRAM part.

The one to the right is probably it, but what is the socketed long skinny one toward the bottom? I’ll look up the parts, and see if I can get my hands on a programmer. The programmer I was thinking of earlier was for the HC11, but I know he’s got some others too.

I have some newer ones for FPGA and CPLD but nothing for older EPROMs.
revtor
Dustin, that one is a Cypress PALCE22V10. . CMOS flash programmable logic.

The ROM files I received are:
sidst_r34.s19
and
sidst_r34_reloc.s19

if that provides any clues. .?

~Stv
J3RK
Aha! That's probably the one. I need to look it up, to know for sure, but I think that's it, based on their comments. I've only messed with the HC11 stuff, and the hardware itself before, but not the actual boot code. If that resides on that IC, or something required for the HC11 code to boot, that could be it. I would have thought it was actually on the HC11 itself, but they did tell you the PAL, so that would be this one. I'll see what I can find for programming it. I can't tell from that picture, but are there any pin-headers around there? I think this was probably before that sort of thing was used, but just in case. Otherwise, I think we have to pull that chip, and use an older style programmer. I'll look all that up, and ask the couple of people I know that could potential have one.
J3RK
He's checking to see if he's got a compatible programmer.

You might check back in with support to verify that they files are for the PAL, and not the HC11 MCU. Just to be sure.

I know for sure that we can program the HC11 if we end up needing to do that, and should know about the PAL shortly.

I hope he does have it. Looks like most of the compatible programmers out there start at $595 and go up from there. (Dataman, EE Tools, etc.)
J3RK
Ok...

So, this is possible, but it's going to be a bit tricky.

First thing. He has a programmer that will work. However, it requires a computer with a native ECP parallel port, running Windows 2000.

I think I can dig such a thing up. lol Might take a little work, but I should have an OS disc kicking around somewhere, and acquiring computer hardware has never been difficult for me. I'll see what I can find.

The next thing. We'll want to buy a few of these chips. They're cheap. They're not current parts, so they don't have them at Mouser or Digikey, but there are plenty of shops that stock the DIP-24 version of the PALCE22V10. I've seen prices in the $3 per IC, and $10 for a lot of 5 of them. I'm thinking it would be wise to get 3-5 of them just so if anything goes wrong with the initial attempt at programming, we have a couple of tries to get it right. If we buy them blank, you don't have to ship the one in your machine, and can just swap it with a new one after programming.

The last item, is that we should definitely make sure that's what Elektron meant, and that it's what those files you have are for. Once we confirm that this is exactly what they meant us to do, I'll start working on finding the computer, OS, etc. My cousin that owns the programmer said he'd come over and help if I got the computer together.

I'll see if I can find a reliable dealer for those ICs. I'm sure most of the ones I saw are fine, but if I can find one that I've used before, that would probably be better.
J3RK
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/search?cat=&q=PALCE22V10&r=true

They sell them in increments of 1. Unfortunately the DIP-24 version we need is twice as much as the PLCC types, but it's still $6. Maybe 2-3 of them would be good.


Also, I just had it confirmed that the AM29F010N is flash with the firmware on it for the MCU.

Also, the behavior you described for the LCD means that it's uninitialized.

The PAL is possibly used for address decoding, and if it's handling that maybe for the LCD driver or something (I'm not sure at all on this, since I've never used one in my own projects) that could be why they want it re-programmed.

So, this all kind of makes sense, and I'm guessing that the files you have are for the PAL. Probably no need to re-confirm it with them.

If you want to get a PAL or three, and send it/them my way, I'll start working on getting that PC. I'll PM you my address.
revtor
Dustin. That’s amazing man!! Thanks so much for the time and effort!. I’ll contact Elektron (try) and get someone to confirm their protocol and the files.

Steve
J3RK
Happy to help!

I also have a soft spot for the SID Station, and all things SID, C64, and even Elektron in general. I'd hate to see a SID Station needlessly die.
J3RK
I PMed my plans to Simon at Elektron, as he's confirmed some other things for me before (like the SRAM thing). Better to have too much information than not enough. Let me know what you hear as well.
J3RK
Also, I just happen to have a motherboard, CPU, RAM, hard drive, power supply, and maybe a case. Windows 2000 compatible.
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