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State of the 1u format
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author State of the 1u format
pip
Instead of hijacking the other wiggler’s thread I
thought it best to open this for general discussion.

I realize this is old news but the implications are just now hitting me
bc I am trying to build a case and want to add a 1u row.

So there are two 1u formats and I am forced to choose between them?!

I read intellijel’s response to this decision. ...making it true to the 1u sizing etc etc. however, the original 1u tile format also has good reason to use the rimless rails, it makes the tiny module (and pcb) that much bigger (about 3mm).

Intellijel says they had no dastardly intentions, but the fact is they undercut a cool and useful format, created confusion (for me at least) and generally made it more difficult to decide what to do as a consumer.

Putting intellijel tiles in the rimless rails looks looks ridiculous (to me)



And the pulp logic/erthenvar/etc will of course not fit in intellijel cases
because the pcb is too big!

Why is this annoying me? You might say just vote with your wallet or whatever. Because it’s no doubt stifling innovation in this tiny format. Why would someone want to make/design a tile when they have to choose bt two “standards” and further reduce the potential to see them out in the wild?

Why in the hell did intellijel do this? From where I am as a consumer, it looks like they bullied their way into a cool little format casing confusion, pushing innovation down, and generally fuckered it.

So, should I make a rimless set of rails in my new case? Or should I do the intellijel standard?

So is this the new “modular spirit?” Taking a neat and innovative format, making it ever so slightly different so that no one else’s modules will work, and then saying the original design was flawed?

Intellijel should stop selling tiles, revert to the format as concocted by the original wigglers who designed it, or make conversion panels for their modules so they don’t look like dried shit in the original format.
DonKartofflo
I gotta say i feel the same about intellijel in this case.
Especially that their reason sounds like absolute b.s. which makes me feel like they just use their weight to bully pulp logic/erthenvar out of business tbh.

i generally tend to have a bit of a weird feeling about the way they release modules in general. cant really put my finger on it, maybe its just me.
euromorcego
come on, this has been discussed endlessly ... you have nothing new to offer. Also it is not hijacking or derailing other threads ... there were already plenty exactly about this topic.

To be a bit more constructive:

Quote:
So, should I make a rimless set of rails in my new case? Or should I do the intellijel standard?

if you like the Intellijel case, get it. The tiles are then a useful add on to choose from. Some other cases offer fixed utility bars ... these are also "proprietary" (but no one seems to complain there). Only difference: Here you have some options to choose from.

If you make your own case: Do pulplogic. You then have access to all tiles. All you would need is a new frontpanel to make it fit perfectly.

And even a one-off panel of tiles is not that expensive (the beast, FPE, pcb material). Problem solved. It is the people with Intellijel cases who have the loss then, really, since they are restricted to Intellijel tiles (but as I said, other manufacturers have fixed utility row, so you know what you are getting).

Bottom line: Instead of whining about the “modular spirit” people should put some effort into making replacement panels to convert Intellijel into Pulplogic. The fact that this has not happened yet also tells me that there might not be that much of a market (tiles are still a niche within a niche).
lud
Pulp logic tiles all the way, they're awesome, innovative and good value! I'm sure that format will prevail, poor decision by Intellijel to create another size I think
mskala
The same objections can be raised equally well against Doepfer "taking," "bullying his way into," and "undercutting" the "cool and useful" pre-existing Analog Systems 3U format, "no doubt stifling innovation." Maybe also Frac-rack; I'm not sure when it originated. This rhetoric is way over the top.
gentle_attack
This thread will be locked in 3...2...1...

But seriously we are talking about 1u utility tiles. It's a bit annoying there are two, incompatible styles- but just pick one.

Intellijel made a calculated decision when they went into the case business to measure "1u" their way. If you aren't sold on that style, you're not going to be buying those cases anyways.

Likewise Pulplogic only fits in custom made/homemade cases. If you are building a case, and are generally into DIY by association, you're probably scodfing at the Intellijel pricing (of cases and 1u utilities). -> You're a Pulplogic guy.

If you are consigning a custom case to be built by someone, have then add a row or two of 1u in the style you like, and call it a day. Or even a row of each style!! It's not like there are commonplace (x+1)u cases out there that are not associated with one of these formats who are "getting screwed." If you have a make noise style 7u there was never any promise it would fit anything besides the CV Bus so that is it's own thing.
DSC
lud wrote:
Pulp logic tiles all the way, they're awesome, innovative and good value! I'm sure that format will prevail, poor decision by Intellijel to create another size I think

Add Erthenvar and Syinsi to that list too!

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a100user
DSC wrote:
lud wrote:
Pulp logic tiles all the way, they're awesome, innovative and good value! I'm sure that format will prevail, poor decision by Intellijel to create another size I think

Add Erthenvar and Syinsi to that list too!

thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up


Add Trouby

Love them all
pip
I sincerely hope this thread doesn’t get locked.

I want to know the state of 1u tile modules
as of late summer 2018.

If this “has been discussed endlessly” why are users still
confused? Recent threads prove that it still needs clarification. I visited intellijel’s website. I could find no mention of the difference bt his tiles and the existing format wtf?

I am not bringing anything new to the issue, I am asking questions,
trying to make a decision and calling it like I see it from this perspective.

Intellijel’s “explanation” is just the path of least resistance for them passed off as justification for screwing with the format.

Thank you wigglers for pointing me to some other options in the original 1u format. I didn’t know about anyone but pulp logic and erthenvar. Any others?

If you are a designer/builder/maker of 1u modules, how do you feel about this as of right now - now that these intellijel designs have come out. Do you plan on making more designs in the original format? Is it possible to make both?
gentle_attack
Intellijel is producer of 1u modules. They have no rights to make modules they want, that fit in the cases that they make?

It's not complicated at all you are being intentionally obtuse.

Intellijel = intellijel case
Everything else =/= intellijel case
pugix
If Intellijel had a better selection of tiles, I wouldn't mind so much. I had to return a bunch of Pulp Logic tiles I bought for an Intellijel case, before I learned about this.
euromorcego
pip wrote:
I sincerely hope this thread doesn’t get locked.

neither do i, not because this thread isn't BS but because threads should not be locked in general.

pip wrote:

I want to know the state of 1u tile modules

plenty of threads already. And everything was said already. Just (apparently) not yet by everyone, so let's keep going ...
pip wrote:

as of late summer 2018.

and then you open another thread for the state in early autumn 2018?

pip wrote:

If this “has been discussed endlessly” why are users still confused?

because they are new users and don't bother to read the old thread. Apart from those, no one is confused.

pip wrote:
I visited intellijel’s website. I could find no mention of the difference bt his tiles and the existing format wtf?

Intellijel makes tiles for their own cases.

pip wrote:

I am not bringing anything new to the issue, I am asking questions,

no, you are not asking questions. You write a suada of statements that say Intellijel "undercut a cool and useful format", is "stifling innovation", "bullied their way into ...", is "pushing innovation down", and "generally fuckered it."

What innovation exactly are they stifling and pushing down?

Then in the first post you have statements like:
pip wrote:

And the pulp logic/erthenvar/etc will of course not fit in intellijel cases

why do you care? You do not have an intellijel case, so obviously this does not need to bother you.

You also claim that Intellijel said "the original design was flawed". They never said anything like this.

Bottom line remains: Tiles were always a DIY/niche thing. Most cases with tiles are DIY. Intellijel has their own proprietary ecosystem, just like MakeNoise has their CV bus, dreadbox has their own utility panels. Neither is available for other people.

The good news is that in contrast to the other two, you can still use Intellijel tiles in your own DIY case (with some diy skills, if you want to, there are plenty of other options). But you do not seem to be interested in actual solution, but rather to insult, whine and complain.
Nutritional Zero
If you knew the first thing about Intellijel you wouldn’t be calling them bullies. One of the best manufacturers to deal with, and very nice people. Their designs are sometimes opinionated but that’s their right, and regardless of that they are always good quality and at a fair price.
dave999z
Just quoting this from another thread because I think it’s helpful as it shows both formats superimposed...

dooj88 wrote:
this is just general info, so hope it helps



So you can put an IJ module in a PL row, but it will have a gap at either the top or bottom or will need to replace the front panel.

But you can’t put a PL tile in an IJ row. The front panel will be too tall, but even if you replace the panel, the PCB will be 6.202mm too tall to fit between the rails. And the issue there is not just the rail rims.
rew_
lol bullying just how much money do you think there is to be made selling sub-format utility modules to synth hobbyists.

there are two sizes. maybe you didn't know that, now you do. that's it, that's all there is to know.
DSC
So why in the world would you shrink the size of the PCB in an already tight space? What brilliance of design is that truly offering you going long term?

Here's a straight question.

What other manufacturer is using Intellijel's standard? Do they even want others to play in their pond? Maybe if they were more forthcoming with the details and would offer original 1U size panels as an alternative, or did I just answer my own question?


rew_
No one else, to my knowledge, is making Intellijel-sized 1U tiles, but it's not some unknowable standard. Someone upthread appears to have taken all the necessary measurements.

No one would require Intelljel's permission to manufacture 1U tiles at that size. That no one is doing so is your first and best clue that this decision was made to augment Intellijel's cases and make them more attractive/self-contained and not that Intellijel is gaslighting the modular community to steal all the moneyz.
euromorcego
DSC wrote:

Here's a straight question.

What other manufacturer is using Intellijel's standard? Do they even want others to play in their pond? Maybe if they were more forthcoming with the details and would offer original 1U size panels as an alternative, or did I just answer my own question?

Here is another question: What other manufacturer is using the Pulplogic standard for their cases? Doepfer? TipTop? Arturia?

Try to see it like this: What if intellijel, instead of the tiles, made cases with a pre-installed utility bar, with some attenuverter, input/output connections and maybe midi-cv? What if they offered 3-4 different configuration for such a utility bar that you can choose from? But once ordered, it cannot be changed.

For example like these guys here: http://www.mtblsm.com/

Would you then also complain?

And accuse them of evil plans to stifle innovation?

This is how I see it: It is a proprietary format to offer a utility bar for their own cases. It is pretty smart to make this modular, instead of just offering a single configuration, like the MTBLSM guys above, or MakeNoise with their CV Bus or Dreadbox with their cases.

But it remains that: a proprietary format. I don't need to care. No one stops me from ignoring these utilities entirely. There is not a single option less when it comes to Pulplogic tiles. Quite on the contrary, you can use these utilities also in diy cases (unlike the other solutions mentioned above).

So what on earth is the problem?

Yes, i agree, it might be a missed opportunity to get 1u tiles into mainstream and make them more population (since they are super useful). I would have preferred to see a case from a major manufacturers that is compatible with Pulplogic tiles. But this is (as yet) not the case. And, alas, I also prefer world peace and free cookies for everyone.

As far as I am concerned, Intellijel can do whatever they want to do. If they want a proprietary utility row in their own cases then so be it. You also don't complain if MakeNoise puts a CV bus in their cases. Or these MECHANISM guys.

I really don't see a need to open a new thread about this every other month and start complaining again.
mskala
rew_ wrote:
No one else, to my knowledge, is making Intellijel-sized 1U tiles, but it's not some unknowable standard. Someone upthread appears to have taken all the necessary measurements.


The measurements for Intellijel's 1U format are also easy to calculate if you say "it's just like Eurorack except on a 1U instead of 3U basis." It's exactly analogous, and you can use most of the same hardware for it that you'd use for Eurorack.

The other 1U format, I don't know, I'd have to look the measurements up. To invent that one, Pulplogic went in their own direction and came up with something that can't use Eurorack hardware and measurements - you can either use Eurorack rails and mount them in a space wider than 1U (so it won't fit in one unit of standard 19" racking), or you can use special different rails.

These differences shouldn't be ignored when we talk about compatibility. Intellijel's 1U format isn't compatible with Pulplogic's 1U format, but Intellijel's is more compatible with some other standards. Pulplogic broke compatibility themselves when they introduced a format that couldn't work with then-current rack standards.
Parnelli
I built my case to the Intellijel format for 1u after looking at those other manufacturer's tiles. They are a bit larger, and I figured if I really needed some of them I could cut them down enough to make them fit, or if I absolutely had to have something else and make it look better I could always buy a blank Intellijel tile and remount it. A lot of work, I know, but if I have to have it....
dave999z
As a selfish user who put a 1U IJ-format row in my own custom case, it would be nice to see more manufacturers make 1U modules that fit in the IJ rows and have 2 different front panels. That IJ PCB size is really tight though, so I can see why it’s not appealing to design for. Nor is there much of a customer base.

The reason I went with IJ is they have a bunch of 2-part modules where the controls are on one panel and the jacks are on a different panel. E.g., input/output jacks, midi jack, pedal i/o jacks. I put a 1U IJ row on the rear of my case to mount the jacks modules (and power switch module as well), and this works really well to both save front panel space and keep cables out of the damn way. The IJ 1U modules are also very reasonably priced.

But I sure as hell wish I could use PL modules too.
dave999z
Parnelli wrote:
I built my case to the Intellijel format for 1u after looking at those other manufacturer's tiles. They are a bit larger, and I figured if I really needed some of them I could cut them down enough to make them fit, or if I absolutely had to have something else and make it look better I could always buy a blank Intellijel tile and remount it. A lot of work, I know, but if I have to have it....


This approach will not work with the majority of PL tiles. The PCB is too tall to mount in an IJ 1u row.
EPTC
DSC
euromorcego wrote:

Here is another question: What other manufacturer is using the Pulplogic standard for their cases? Doepfer? TipTop? Arturia?



Ah, I see, so you are saying if they are not one of the 'big' boys they don't count? Couple of links for you. (All current as of this moment.)

http://store.synthrotek.com/Eurorack-Cases_c_28-2-3.html

http://syinsi.com/diy-standalone-1u-tile-case/

http://pulplogic.com/product/lunchbox-lbz54/

https://www.mdlrcase.com/product/14u126hp-portable-eurorack-modular-ca se-performer-series-pro/



Here is the obvious problem!

Do a Google search for eurorack 1U cases and Intellijel offerings dominate the results.
Do a Google search for eurorack 1U Modules and most are the OG players.

Intellijel could have called them Intelli-tiles or anything else since he made his own proprietary format. He could of helped the current 1U manufacturers, such as myself by just leaving our naming convention alone and did his own thing.

Instead poor design will have us reading these threads forever.
So this is on DAN and nobody else!
rew_
DSC wrote:
Here is the obvious problem!

Do a Google search for eurorack 1U cases and Intellijel offerings dominate the results.
Do a Google search for eurorack 1U Modules and most are the OG players.


This feels well beside the point to me but is also flatly not true. Incognito browser results don't return an Intellijel link for "eurorack 1U cases" until half way down the second page of results. Pulplogic and Synthrotek sites are the first results after Sweetwater and Perfect Circuit.
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