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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Demos of filters (and modules in general)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Demos of filters (and modules in general)
Putte
Is it just me that like to se demos of filters before buying them? Or, for that matter, other kinds of modules as well. At the moment, I´m looking for the next filter, so that´s why I focus on those.
I´m a bit amazed that the producers are capable of putting these things together, which to me are real examples of craftmanship, but not to make videos on the homepages to demo them for us. There are some sound clips, but don´t we want to hear and see at the same time?
Synthesizers.com seems to have understood this (I know, some videos aren´t theirs), but why haven´t the others followed? There ought to be a lot to win on recording a few minutes of simple videos.
josaka
yes ..completely .. I started a thread months back about module builders advertising and making demos.. and generally publicizing/branding themselves

as usual in 5u .. change is mostly shunned.. smile
Synthbuilder
I tried to do a video once. It was terrible. My camera wasn't very good and getting the light right was much harder than I thought it would be. I think it's a skill to make a good video and maybe a bad video is worse than no video.

In the eurorack world there's a ton of people making videos and some of them are very good. Most of the good ones aren't the manufacturers though but very talented folk with a lot of time on their hands to make, edit and upload them.

I even hate doing sound samples. I'm not sure why. I guess because it's really hard to make a sound clip that shows what a module can do without being overly long and boring. I'm about to have do a bunch for the new ASV module and I have to say, I'm not looking forward to it. I'd rather be designing the next module.

Tony
J3RK
josaka wrote:
yes ..completely .. I started a thread months back about module builders advertising and making demos.. and generally publicizing/branding themselves

as usual in 5u .. change is mostly shunned.. smile


Ninja

Shh!

We fear change...

whistlin'
josaka
my thing is this.. say..you spend ages designing/building/creating your baby..
..should you not take the narrative ? rather than leave it to random strangers to create an 'opinion' or create an 'image' which could be potentially very detremental, there is also chance they dont understand the full potential of your new creature and create some misinformed idea about its use/sound/features..
If it was mine.. no way am I gambling ..leaving it to the youtuber massive . smile
pbear :(
J3RK
josaka wrote:
my thing is this.. say..you spend ages designing/building/creating your baby..
..should you not take the narrative ? rather than leave it to random strangers to create an 'opinion' or create an 'image' which could be potentially very detremental, there is also chance they dont understand the full potential of your new creature and create some misinformed idea about its use/sound/features..
If it was mine.. no way am I gambling ..leaving it to the youtuber massive . smile
pbear :(


You are in fact 100% correct. If it was a proper business for me, I'd demo the hell out of things. I'd even buy more equipment to do it better.

In my case though, I don't really have a product line or a business. I typically build things for myself for fun, and then when I want to move on I sell them. hihi Occasionally someone might ask for something specific. Every once in a while, I may build something with the intent to sell it upon completion.
JohnLRice
It's much more difficult, costlier, and more time consuming to do a sufficiently high quality video demo these days than many people may think. And it's especially difficult for someone who may not have a particular passion or aptitude for making videos.
Jsharpphoto
I have a YouTube channel dedicated almost exclusively to Mu format reviews. I will review any module that a manufacturer sends me, and I will return the modules afterward.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoiZGTY3VoUav2RUQ4rJt2Q
JohnLRice
Jsharpphoto wrote:
I have a YouTube channel dedicated almost exclusively to Mu format reviews. I will review any module that a manufacturer sends me, and I will return the modules afterward.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoiZGTY3VoUav2RUQ4rJt2Q
SlayerBadger! thumbs up applause
Thalassa
Been a small manufacturer is a really busy task and making videos is really time consuming . Sometimes is hard to find the time ( at least for me ) to record , edit etc and more if you are kind of control freak and you like to do it your self. I have videos of of my modules ( not all ) in my YouTube channel. I'm not up to date with the modules but I will try to record more videos soon.

Here it is my YouTube channel : http://youtube.com/corsynth
flts
Problem: "I don't have the time or the skills as a manufacturer to shoot videos or make proper sound samples, even though I would like to have some"

Solution: "You don't have to - just find a nice and talented person to make a video for you in exchange for the module or something else"

At least it's the obvious and simple thought. A relatively skilled customer receives a free module or some other modest form of compensation that the manufacturer is prepared to give. The manufacturer receives a minimum of couple of minutes of relatively well-shot video with proper line audio showing what the module can do, how it sounds on its own and together with other modules in a "musical" context. Or a couple of audio demos in similar vein. Or whatever is agreed on.

Having people eg. write good manuals in exchange for some hardware (whether to loan or own) and goodwill rarely happens. That's something you'll need a technical writing pro and a proper pay for, as most people consider it boring and actual, tedious work. However, having people make audio or video demos in exchange for hardware (or even the chance to beta test the hardware) is how things often seem to happen, as if you find someone who is good enough in the first place, usually he/she likes making videos or audio clips anyway, and won't say no to making some in exchange for new toys.

FWIW, the level of demos that people interested in a module expect is nowhere near "it has to be shot in 4k in good light with fancy visual effects and transitions, professional narration and surround sound, and an immersive storyline". Just show what the module looks like and how the blinkenlights are blinking and knobs are turning smooth like butter, record the audio parts straight to line without a lot of noise or clipping, and spend some time thinking of a couple of nice sounding patches where it's obvious what the module is doing.

Instead of talking on top of a camera phone video where the synth is recorded with the internal mic from the other side of the room. Which is usually what happens when people need to shoot a quick demo video without actually spending any time or effort - oftentimes the end result is that the module starts feeling less desirable when you hear it in a crappy audio quality with the room echo.

(Also: this is probably obvious, but the advice above only applies if you are actually in the business of selling modules and think that decent quality demo videos and audio samples are important - in case one is doing design and building mainly for fun or minor side income, or doesn't see a particular need for good quality demos, then it's obviously not worth it...)
Flareless
JohnLRice wrote:
It's much more difficult, costlier, and more time consuming to do a sufficiently high quality video demo these days than many people may think. And it's especially difficult for someone who may not have a particular passion or aptitude for making videos.


Thalassa wrote:
Been a small manufacturer is a really busy task and making videos is really time consuming . Sometimes is hard to find the time ( at least for me ) to record , edit etc and more if you are kind of control freak and you like to do it your self. I have videos of of my modules ( not all ) in my YouTube channel. I'm not up to date with the modules but I will try to record more videos soon.


YES! This is a big reason I don't produce as many videos as I think up in my head.


flts wrote:
Problem: "I don't have the time or the skills as a manufacturer to shoot videos or make proper sound samples, even though I would like to have some"

Solution: "You don't have to - just find a nice and talented person to make a video for you in exchange for the module or something else"


This is a great solution but it's back to the first point. The editing is crucial but it's the filming that's the nightmare. Setting up an iPhone and doing an ambient-sound recording then slapping on an intro and outro title are one thing but if you're going to all the trouble of having it tarted up by a pro who's charging a module then you're talking about making a far higher quality production.

There's lighting to consider and even placement. Does the module show best next to its particular neighbour? And then the script? Are you going to wing it or shoot for a specific set of points and particular patch? How long will it be? A fixed amount of time? 5 minutes? 8? However the hell long you ramble?

Now how about sound? Are you going to wear a lapel mic? Boom mics maybe? Will the audio be fed directly into your mixer? Will you apply post-production before sending the stems to this fine fellow who will edit for you?

All this stuff I described is up to the guy with the camera, the director, the producer, the sound engineer and the copy-writer not to mention the builder showcasing his products. Unfortunately all these guys are usually just one guy.
flts
I'm sorry I'm bad at communicating (English isn't my native language), but I was specifically suggesting someone else to do the demos - not shooting the demo material yourself and giving it to a professional video editor.

To put it in a shorter way: If you, as a manufacturer, do not have the time or chops to make good demos, yet want to have some, then the obvious solution is to borrow or give the module to someone who is good at making synthesizer demos / videos, and ask him / her to do the demos to you.

(As for the quality: there are people like JohnLRice (hello John!) and DivKid who spend a lot of effort making superb videos about the subject, and obviously a professional quality video production with proper lighting, script etc. will be on entirely another level. However, the baseline is also very, very low in general - think camera mic, someone babbling nonsense and very little hi-fidelity examples of actual sound or shots of the actual module. Or, in many cases, no demos whatsoever. There are both hobbyists and professionals who can do much, much better than that, even with lightly planned quickie ad hoc videos like "here's a patch with the module in a prominent role, and here's a textual overlay description of what it's doing" - it's not a trivial task to someone who hasn't done it and doesn't want to do it, but it's not rocket science to put together a couple of short informative demos to help people decide if it's for them, either)
Putte
These aren´t masterpieces of film I´m thinking of. Decent sound, obviously, but the pictures don´t have to be excellent. All I need is to see what is happening on the panel. A to minute sequence should do it. It ought to be quite basic, but I get that not everyone has the Equipment to do this. I just wonder why so few of the producers make demos. Many of them are extremely service minded, so this is strange. Moon modular, for instance, has tons of demos, but none of them give me any information about how the modules work. I don´t get that.
JohnLRice
flts wrote:
there are people like JohnLRice (hello John!) and DivKid who spend a lot of effort making superb videos about the subject, and obviously a professional quality video production with proper lighting, script etc. will be on entirely another level.
Thanks for the kind words! Hug

flts wrote:
However, the baseline is also very, very low in general - think camera mic, someone babbling nonsense and very little hi-fidelity examples of actual sound or shots of the actual module. Or, in many cases, no demos whatsoever. There are both hobbyists and professionals who can do much, much better than that, even with lightly planned quickie ad hoc videos like "here's a patch with the module in a prominent role, and here's a textual overlay description of what it's doing" - it's not a trivial task to someone who hasn't done it and doesn't want to do it, but it's not rocket science to put together a couple of short informative demos to help people decide if it's for them, either)
On the surface I would agree but once you get into it there is a lot to consider. From a manufacturer's view point, let's say they spend minimal money and time doing a demo that sounds OK and looks passable, then another manufacturer does a video for a competing module and their video sounds and looks better and is maybe better thought out and more entertaining? As a customer which would you buy? Probably the module that had the "best" video demo! So, then the manufacturer might need to consider spending more time and/or money on making videos themselves or having someone else do them etc
Putte
This has to be the first time I don´t agree with you, jlr. I would buy the filter demoed on a video, rather than the one that wasn´t. If I choose between two filters, the one with a slightly lesser quality video would at least have a chance.
It´s obvious I can´t rely on how they´re valued here on the forum, since all of us tend to love the filters we have. There must be hundreds of filter discussions here, where each and every one praises their filter. I want to make up my own opinion. None of us has a bunch of producers even close to next door, which means we can´t try them ourselves. I´m looking for the next best thing, which would be video demos. Nothing fancy, just a straight video showing what happens when Frequency alone is turned up, and in combination with some Resonance settings. I would be totally satisfied with that.
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
These aren´t masterpieces of film I´m thinking of. Decent sound, obviously, but the pictures don´t have to be excellent. All I need is to see what is happening on the panel. A to minute sequence should do it. It ought to be quite basic, but I get that not everyone has the Equipment to do this. I just wonder why so few of the producers make demos. Many of them are extremely service minded, so this is strange. Moon modular, for instance, has tons of demos, but none of them give me any information about how the modules work. I don´t get that.
While one type of video might be just right for you, many other people will complain about them. And very "expensively" produced videos get a lot of complaints also so, one of the hardest things to accomplish is making a video that a majority of people will like.

Regarding Moon Modular's videos, this is my assumption but I think they wanted have a certain brand "style" and spark curiosity and imagination with their videos, to create sort of a "mood" as opposed to providing a technical over view. Rest in peace 2018, dear Udo Hanten! waah I think those that were familiar with Udo's work as a solo artist and in various bands like YOU probably appreciated his Moon videos more than many people who weren't? It's breaking my heart to find and listen to these links right now, I wish I had met him in person and had been more involved and supportive of his work. waah waah waah
https://udohanten.bandcamp.com/





josaka
moon.. completely with you..really poor. John's moon videos are the only real guides.. as for COTK .. forget it.. there are a lot of great modules with no or litlle/poor demos that dont give an accurate picture..
I mean.. you are trying to sell them.. not rocket science..

also agree people love the stuff they paid for.. justification and all that..
same with most stuff people buy tbf.. smile
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
This has to be the first time I don´t agree with you, jlr. I would buy the filter demoed on a video, rather than the one that wasn´t. If I choose between two filters, the one with a slightly lesser quality video would at least have a chance.
Don't feel bad, I disagree with myself all the time, it's one of the main reasons I have such a hard time getting things accomplished! Mr. Green Hug Dead Banana

But sometimes no video can be better then a bad or mediocre one? If someone raves about a module and then I watch a video and it turns me off, I probably wouldn't buy it, but if I hadn't seen the video, I might have bought it, especially if I knew and agreed with the person's tastes.
JohnLRice
It would be great if there was some independent review company that bought ALL of the 5U modules and reviewed them all in the same consistent way with the same gear etc, like a video Consumer Reports for modular gear but, the market is so small that it would likely never happen.
ranix
how do you guys sync your audio and video? Do you have an SMPTE-capable video recorder?
JohnLRice
ranix wrote:
how do you guys sync your audio and video? Do you have an SMPTE-capable video recorder?
For the longest time I used a separate camera and flash audio recorder. I would make some sort of clicks at the beginning of the recordings, usually 4 groups of clicks, | || ||| |||| , then in post production I would zoom way into the beginning of the camera's audio track and the flash recorder's track and just slide the audio track until the clicks lined up. It's was relatively fast and easy.

Then I moved to a much better camera that could record high quality audio along with the video so I no longer had to do that. This is fun! But I've been recently been experimenting with multi camera shoots and I'm back to doing the clicks again, common referred to as a "slate". I don't use an actual slate clapper board because if I did, I'd need to add a mic into my direct audio mix and that has so far not been worth the effort.



Multi cam shoots can exponentially increase things to deal with, I'm still trying to get decent results . . . .
josaka
Quote:
But sometimes no video can be better then a bad or mediocre one?


this is exactly why you should control your own image.. if you dont do something.. chances are someone will.. then the first thing people see is that.
JohnLRice
josaka wrote:
Quote:
But sometimes no video can be better then a bad or mediocre one?


this is exactly why you should control your own image.. if you dont do something.. chances are someone will.. then the first thing people see is that.
To do that you'd have to make more videos then anyone else or at least make the most popular videos (somehow) and to or? seriously, i just don't get it

It's all to easy to imagine what you'd like to see other people do, it's very different to actually do it. cool
josaka
JohnLRice wrote:
josaka wrote:
Quote:
But sometimes no video can be better then a bad or mediocre one?


this is exactly why you should control your own image.. if you dont do something.. chances are someone will.. then the first thing people see is that.
To do that you'd have to make more videos then anyone else or at least make the most popular videos (somehow) and to or? seriously, i just don't get it

It's all to easy to imagine what you'd like to see other people do, it's very different to actually do it. cool


a lot of folk do make decent videos... or soundclips.. JLR you do it ! smile.. its not some impossible feat.. or as stated earlier.. get someone else to do it.. smile
should really be part of your 'model' if you are at all serious..
I know its not the same scale.. but the attention moog poured into promoting the one showing of its deep features did 0 harm.. smile
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