SSL Octal AD/AR Expander for Octal VCA ???

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dslocum
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SSL Octal AD/AR Expander for Octal VCA ???

Post by dslocum » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:20 pm

Hey guys. For those folks that have our Octal VCA module and wondered what I had in mind for that 10 pin connector on the back, here's a bit of what I was thinking.

This is an octal AD/AR envelope that would use a 10 pin ribbon to connect to the VCA. There would also be another 10 pin connector that would allow connection to the outputs of our V-Gates module (with a simple modification PCB soldered on).

At somewhere around $450, would you guys have any interest?

I'm trying to keep this at 2 MU, but if you think it should also have individual envelope outputs, the size would need to go to 3 MU and the price to about $500.

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Doug Slocum
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Thorsday
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Post by Thorsday » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:52 pm

Neat! That will be nice to normal into the middle sockets on the Octal Linear VCA.

Are the AD AR curves/times based on any existing AD or AR in particular? Assuming they will output Linear?

From the 1st input down, could the inputs cascade from one trigger until "broken"/being patched at any subsequent trigger input?

You'd use square tip switches, not the round ones, yes?

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Post by kcd06 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:24 pm

First: why do you hate my wallet so much? What did it ever do to you?

Second: I like the idea, and further would happily shell out another $50 for an 8x more flexible module

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Post by Squattamolie » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:34 pm

This implies you'd be willing to mod V-Gates modules for existing owners? If so, the 8xEG with an 8xVCA AND the V-Gates - all with backplane connections? Count me in, and that would be with the EG module at either size/price.

That said, could you:
- slightly compress the space between the trig in jack, the gate light and attack knob
- place the AD/AR switch where the EG# is now
- Place a new EG out jack where the current shot shows the switch?

I'd prefer the EG to be kept to 2MU (I suppose concentric knobs for the 2 stages is out of the question? They work fine on our API 1608 and VISION consoles).

Again (for clarity): I'll commit to the system with the EG at 2MU or 3MU, with or without individual EG outs.

And BTW - am LOVING the Quad LFO - so much modulation in 1MU - thanks so much Doug!
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Post by diophantine » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:59 pm

I don't have an Octal VCA (in the plans if I add a 5th case...), but I have some questions, as this looks really neat.

- Are these normalled or summed with the CV inputs on the Octal VCA?
- Are gate inputs normalled?
- Would a 3rd mode - looping AR - be possible?

The reason I ask is that this thing clearly benefits from having lots of gates (perhaps more than in most systems), so triggering multiple EGs from a single gate (w/o a multiple), or using the EGs as LFOs could be really appealing.

Depending on the design on the Octal VCA and this, maybe there could be an optional (potentially passive) module to fit between this & the Octal VCA with 2x8 jacks which could provide the EG outs and something else... )(inverted outs? inputs to be summed with the envelopes? attenuator pots for EG -> VCA?).

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Post by josaka » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:44 pm

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Post by EPTC » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:50 pm

Could this work as a standalone device for adding A/D to eight triggers? (josaka's mockup works, or an insert cable in the trigger jack for both input and output) Or would it only work as an Octal VCA aid.

Definitely like it as a standalone for adding small envelopes to triggers.

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Post by josaka » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:13 pm

EPTC wrote:Could this work as a standalone device for adding A/D to eight triggers? (josaka's mockup works, or an insert cable in the trigger jack for both input and output) Or would it only work as an Octal VCA aid.

Definitely like it as a standalone for adding small envelopes to triggers.
my mock up was a stab at a unit that does both.. I think realistically that would sell .. just as an 'aid'..it would be less appealing to most.. it would be a killer package..

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Post by JohnLRice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:22 pm

My take is . . . make it ADSR and POLY!!! :party: :goo: :sb: Just one knob per A, D, S, and R parameters which affects all 8 envelopes. The toggle switches are now trigger enable/disable switches for playability. Still might need to be 2U? Knobs could be rearranged to allow for 4 additional jacks for CV control of each parameter? Could also make it wider to allow for output jacks of course. Here's a rough rendering:
Image

Inspired by the COTK C911P:
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Post by josaka » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 pm

a little less cluttered.. I also would just have D/R instead of AD/AR
think thats a good idea for another module John.. !
not sure how many people are running poly though :)

thinking about it you could just make the connections on this design normalled.. so one input can control all of the outs. and break the signal when you add a new gate.. this way you can have 4 X2 seperate A-D/R or 2 X4 or 8 x1 etc

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Post by levelhead3 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:54 am

what would happen to the CV input on the 1510 once this was attached? disconnected? combined with the 1515's EG voltage?

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Post by ranix » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:06 am

this is a great idea for a module and I'd be all over it, but I have already created a large bank of 6 normalled envelopes to go with the ssl octal VCA :party:

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Post by josaka » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:00 am

levelhead3 wrote:what would happen to the CV input on the 1510 once this was attached? disconnected? combined with the 1515's EG voltage?
I imagine it would be normalled unless you insert somethng into the trigger..otherwise there is not much point of a ribbon connector.. :)

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Post by levelhead3 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:06 am

lol i don't think the trigger inputs could switch the functionality of the CV input jacks.

the cv input jacks might disconnect the EG outputs from the ribbon cable when something is plugged in, but not sure - that's why i was asking.

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Post by dslocum » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:37 am

Apologies for not getting the scale of the knobs switches and jacks just right. They were meant for illustration, but ended up on the small side, so some your wonderful rework concepts wouldn't work.

Props to you guys for your suggestions. Here's what I'm up against mechanically. I had to actually have a prototype made so I could visualize the problems. It doesn't look like it, but it's pretty tight - based on the mechanical constraints of the parts. You have to look at it with your 3D hat on. Not saying something else CAN'T be done, but....

Image

Image

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Doug Slocum
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"I guess all the Forest Mims Radio Shack books I read finally paid off!"
"I ordered twice as many _______ as I thought I'd need, only to find out that I'm still less than half way to having enough."
"...this whole thing was started by a dream and a mouse." - Walt Disney
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Post by dslocum » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:42 am

levelhead3 wrote:what would happen to the CV input on the 1510 once this was attached? disconnected? combined with the 1515's EG voltage?
When you plug into a CV input, the normalled EG output on the ribbon connector would be disconnected. Triggering would not be affected by the CV plugs.

The EG trigger inputs would be similarly normalled to the V-Gates outputs which would be disconnected when you plug into a EG Trigger input.

Make sense?
Doug Slocum
Synthetic Sound Labs
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"I guess all the Forest Mims Radio Shack books I read finally paid off!"
"I ordered twice as many _______ as I thought I'd need, only to find out that I'm still less than half way to having enough."
"...this whole thing was started by a dream and a mouse." - Walt Disney
"Flatulence sounds aren't just for brass and reed instruments anymore, thanks in large part to Dr Moog." - Ockeghem

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Post by dslocum » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:52 am

A sleazy trick to get the EG to output a voltage (without having a separate jack) would be to patch +5V into the Signal input of the VCA, and take your EG output from the output of the Octal VCA.

Just sayin' :hihi:
Doug Slocum
Synthetic Sound Labs
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"I guess all the Forest Mims Radio Shack books I read finally paid off!"
"I ordered twice as many _______ as I thought I'd need, only to find out that I'm still less than half way to having enough."
"...this whole thing was started by a dream and a mouse." - Walt Disney
"Flatulence sounds aren't just for brass and reed instruments anymore, thanks in large part to Dr Moog." - Ockeghem

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Post by bwhittington » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:37 pm

Nice module. Those knobs do look like a tight squeeze, but its hard to argue with the value or function this provides. I'm a little bit interested even being octal-vca-less. Easy enough to DIY a panel with 8 output jacks if one wanted that? Or I was thinking how fun it would be to connect one to a Moon 592 or something like that.

It's a shame there is no agreed-upon cv bus wiring standard, though that pretty much seems not even worth trying, given there isn't even a standard set of needs from one system to the next. Still, should be easy enough to adapt this to anyone's evil purposes.

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Post by cornutt » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:06 pm

Would be interesting if there was some way to make them also behave as ramp generators, e.g, execute only the A phase or the R phase. Admittedly, I can't think of a good way to do this without adding a bunch more switches to the panel.
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Post by kindredlost » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:13 pm

I like the original as you made up Doug. I would be in for this. I use the hell out of the 1510 and could use this auxiliary module.

cornutt wrote:Would be interesting if there was some way to make them also behave as ramp generators, e.g, execute only the A phase or the R phase. Admittedly, I can't think of a good way to do this without adding a bunch more switches to the panel.
What about just turning either the attack or release knob all the way down? Instant ramp. :despair:

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Post by s16016wb » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:13 pm

I'd buy one.

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Post by dslocum » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:33 pm

bwhittington wrote:... Easy enough to DIY a panel with 8 output jacks if one wanted that?
Really easy. I might even be persuaded to make a DIY PCB for that. You can even daisy chain using several female headers on a ribbon cable. You'd just need to stuff 10 pin header & 1/4" jacks, and DIY a panel.
It's a shame there is no agreed-upon cv bus wiring standard...
Darn - you had to say "agreed-upon". Anyway, FWIW here's my pinout "standard". Shrouded dual row, 10 pin 0.1" rectangular header:

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"I ordered twice as many _______ as I thought I'd need, only to find out that I'm still less than half way to having enough."
"...this whole thing was started by a dream and a mouse." - Walt Disney
"Flatulence sounds aren't just for brass and reed instruments anymore, thanks in large part to Dr Moog." - Ockeghem

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Post by cornutt » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:31 pm

kindredlost wrote:
What about just turning either the attack or release knob all the way down? Instant ramp. :despair:
If I did an up-ramp, I'd want it to stay at the end value, and not return to zero. After thinking about it some more, I've realized that that's not really a good function to try to cram into an envelope generator.
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Post by gearhead61 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:22 pm

If this will mount in a DotCom Box 11 cabinet - count me in!
I guess I need to add the 1510 to the purchase list to go along with my 1610 V-Gates - good thing I don't have a couple of kids expecting a decent inheritance from me... :75: :75: :lol:
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Post by dslocum » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:56 am

This should be a pretty handy module.

I think I can actually do this for less :75: than I thought! The final price will be $375, and 6 to 8 week delivery. Includes ribbon cable to attach to Octal VCA. I'd like to get a $200 deposit from at least 3 people.

Who wants one?

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Last edited by dslocum on Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Doug Slocum
Synthetic Sound Labs
www.steamsynth.com
------------
"I guess all the Forest Mims Radio Shack books I read finally paid off!"
"I ordered twice as many _______ as I thought I'd need, only to find out that I'm still less than half way to having enough."
"...this whole thing was started by a dream and a mouse." - Walt Disney
"Flatulence sounds aren't just for brass and reed instruments anymore, thanks in large part to Dr Moog." - Ockeghem

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