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small 5U system - thoughts please!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author small 5U system - thoughts please!
Xmit
Hi guys.


So I already have a GRP R24 sequencer which I really love - it's currently sequencing a few things - Korg MS-20M, Moog M32s & a Grandmother...

But I'm entertaining the notion of actually sticking it in something like a Moon Modular M 500-R2 rack & populating the bottom row with a few modules to give me a compact system without breaking the bank.

Initial thoughts are :



I realise this pretty basic - but I'm not really after complex 'modern' sounds - otherwise I'd be into Eurocrack I guess.... I just like that big Moogy sound for sequences, drones etc...

I realise I've no Mults on this - ran out of room - but was thinking maybe I can get away with passive split cables as required ?

I'm a total noob with configuring my own system - I am pretty much a semi-modular guy really. So any thoughts, feedback etc would be great... particularly in terms of swapping any modules, getting any more fucntionality from my ££

As I mention - I do have some other gear - like the MS-20M -which can be patched over too - I'm thinking of extra modulation etc.


I'm in the Uk, so I'd be looking at buying from somewhere like KMR, so I need stuff I can get easily here, not unobtainium ! smile

Cost wise I need to keep it down too - I have already have the R24, so I'm reckoning the rest is going to be about £1900 which is just the limit of my budget right now. I'm also tight on space, so more rows aren't really an option anyway.

any help would be greatly appreciated. smile
josaka
think you are wasting a space or 2.. or at least could get more fore those spaces.. the attenuators are a little redundant.. as is having a dual vca in this space.. the 517s is invertable..
an oakley dual LFO and a mixer may lead to a more flexible sound.. also ADSR like the oakley ADSR/VCA would save you a further 2 spaces.. if you did that then a second filter would open up the sound a lot.. you could get a krisp 1 octa lfo(instead of the dual) and really get modulating.. it would aldo allow for more "Euro" type sounds with an extra filter and 8 lfo Octa.. and still maintain the classic 5u sound... a 4 chan cp3 type mixer would and a nice crunch to it all.
Xmit
^
this is great - thanks...I'll look at this for starters then - keep 'em coming please folks smile
Quote:

the attenuators are a little redundant.. as is having a dual vca in this space.. the 517s is invertable..


can you elaborate a little - sorry to be a pain wink
josaka
generally an inverted signal is to change the slope of cv signals between modules ..can be used for loads.. the filter and ADSR are main targets for inversion (lfo too which you dont have here smile ) ..the 517s has CV inversion selection which mostly nullifies the need for invertable attenuators(as its the filter ADSR that is used fot reversing) sure they can be used in other ways but I feel you can get more interesting sounds per space than that smile..
hamildad
The wiseness from Brother Josaka as always...

Here's my starter for 10, uses 1x dotcom and 2x STG, but the rest is easy to buy in the EU. swap out the EG sidecar for another filter, but with a sequencer taking up the whole top row, I really like modulating parts of a ASDR for a nice sequence which flexes. you may well feel otherwise.


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JohnLRice
josaka wrote:
the attenuators are a little redundant.. as is having a dual vca in this space.. a 4 chan cp3 type mixer would and a nice
hmmm..... Look closer, that's the 3 channel Moon mixer, not the 4 channel attenuators! hihi I'd say a mixer is essential in this system and the Moon 526 mixer is one of my most favorite, especially in a small system where versatility counts! (3 inverting channels with mute switches and a master volume control with both positive and negative outputs thumbs up )
josaka
nice one.. wouldnt you say having two mixers and an attenuator was overkill tho ..? smile

The STG mixer and ADSR are great.. as is the Q114 .. but sound shaping tools such as more modulation + a second filter would be a lot more fun.. smile

SSL has a few great modules to look at as well (krisp1 stocks a few in the UK)

note: the ladder filter below should be the discrete ladder as it has CP3 drive built in.. there is no photo of the single module on modulargrid.. you can also use the multimix (in place of the fourmix) from oakley if you want reversable

JohnLRice
OK, here's my take FWIW. There are so many ways to go and I have the hardest time "finalizing" hmmm..... lol meh my systems, especially the small ones since no matter how big the case is . . . it's still too small by one to three modules! Mr. Green

Actually your initial setup would be great and serve you well. One nice thing about having all Moon modules is that they have normalizing points so you can connect them all together behind the panels and then only thing you'd need to patch would be the CV and Gate outs of the sequencer, handy for live situations. thumbs up

That said, I think I might go for more density of the modules so that you can have two completely independent voices when desired, seeing as how the R24 sequencer is perfect for that, allowing for an 8 or 16 step bass line at a slower rate and a 16 or 8 melody/arpegiation at a faster rate at the same time. You could do that with your initial setup by patching the oscillator outs into the dual VCA first and then patching the VCA's mix output onto the VCF, or just filtering one of the voices, etc, etc. hmmm..... Lot's of ways to do things in a modular. nodnod

The filters below are the GMS-294A 4 Pole Low Pass Filter for one voice, which sounds very Moogy to me. (the Moon 504 LFP might also be a good choice but I've never tried one). And the second voice gets a Moon 517S. Both voices get a Synthetic Sound Labs 1235 Envelope / VCA Combo so they can be voiced independently and you can also use the envelope outs to modulate the filters. And then there is the STG Soundlabs Envelope Generator which is very versatile and you could use it as a dual envelope or LFO to modulate the filters, VCO or what ever. You could also drop the mixer if you are OK with using an external mix for both voices so you could add a more specialized processor like an STG Wavefolder or Happy Nerding FM aid BUT . . . this is where I get into decision problem because a mixer is such an essential module that if I pulled it out, sooner or later I would sacrifice some other module so I could put the mixer back in. d'oh! Dead Banana




JohnLRice
josaka wrote:
nice one.. wouldnt you say having two mixers and an attenuator was overkill tho ..? smile
I would definitely agree in such a small system thumbs up but, there wasn't two mixers plus an attenuator in the original system!? seriously, i just don't get it

I would say that while the Krisp1 OCTO is a super cool module, I think it is very overkill in a small system. But hey, if everyone agreed on exact features, build quality, sound, and prices, there would only be one manufacturer and every one would have the exact same system, yes? hihi screaming goo yo spinning
JohnLRice
Also, be very careful when choosing modules for a case like the Moon Modular M 500-R2 rack since is has limited depth and many modules wont fit at all. Look up the usable depth of the rack and look up the minimum depth required by each module, don't assume anything.
JohnLRice
And final note: it looks like KMR sells the following 5U brands thumbs up
Corsynth
FreeState FX
Frequency Central
GRP
Moog
Moon

All good stuff! thumbs up I've never had any Frequency Central modules but I don't recall hearing anything negative about them either. The one or two Corsynth and FreeState FX modules I have are excellent.
josaka
says the man with 3(4 ADSR) in his rack !! ...I agree the octo is overkill.. the OP said he liked the euro mudulation.. and 8 lfo would get you some of the way.. (8 lfo in Audio range !)
and mr hamiltons post was the one I was refferring re the mixers smile


probably go for this actually.. (maybe with the multimix)

JohnLRice
josaka wrote:
says the man with 3(4 ADSR) in his rack !! ...
thumbs up MOAR is the new MOAR! screaming goo yo SlayerBadger! lol

OK, I'll cut off my obsessive compulsive roll on this . . .after these two alternative serving suggestions . . . meh Boat



josaka
yea that last one is the bollocks.. Guinness ftw!
the STG Osc over the Moons all day.. Suit And Tie Guy! FM Aid Dalek
might swap a Q114 for that Moon mixer too.. smile
Jedi

swap the STG osc for 10 Synth-Werk 901/921 + 3 mos lab 921 osc and thats pretty close to my voice 1 set up.. smile + 4 filters ! Dead Banana


FM Aid is my next buy..
bwhittington
JohnLRice wrote:
Also, be very careful when choosing modules for a case like the Moon Modular M 500-R2 rack since is has limited depth and many modules wont fit at all.


Oops, there goes all the great Krisp1 Oakley. suggestions . . .
josaka
bwhittington wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
Also, be very careful when choosing modules for a case like the Moon Modular M 500-R2 rack since is has limited depth and many modules wont fit at all.


Oops, there goes all the great Krisp1 Oakley. suggestions . . .


another internet myth... octo. Case depth 65mm or 2.55”



Dual lfo Case depth 85mm or 3.35 Inch.
Schlumpfhut
A possibilty for a deeper case if you dont mind the assembly could be to order 19 inch case from All Metal Parts along with Rack rails and blind panels. The Downside would be that you have to put your own power supply into it
bwhittington
josaka wrote:
bwhittington wrote:

Oops, there goes all the great Krisp1 Oakley. suggestions . . .


another internet myth... octo. Case depth 65mm or 2.55”

[image removed]

Dual lfo Case depth 85mm or 3.35 Inch.


I feel like I touched a nerve. hihi

But just to say, that pretty Octo isn't Krisp1 Oakley. If you are arguing against the word 'all,' that's fine, but finding a possible exception (Dual LFO) doesn't mean the OP shouldn't take great care in ordering modules with perpendicular-mounted PCB's for a very shallow case. The VRG is 110mm deep and won't fit. None of the filters, VCA's Looping EG's (recommended here) SampleSlew, Discontinuity, Equinoxe, etc. I've used would fit.

I feel like your myth-busting attempt might win on a technicality but might also give false confidence about the OP's ability to use these modules in his case. I'm sure we wouldn't want to do that!
josaka
no arguing no nerves.. just not accurate.. smile and you did say 'krisp1' tbf smile
anyone ordering should check.. the krisp site is short on full details on quite a few modules..

no synth-werk going in there for sure.. MY ASS IS BLEEDING
JohnLRice
Xmit
thanks for all the input so far guys - really appreciate it ...there's a lot more research for me to do here...

Josaka wrote :
Quote:
(lfo too which you dont have here)


I was under the impression the dual EG could be set to loop mode for LFO duties, so you could have an EG & an LFO, or 2 LFOs..whatever. But yes - the broader point about lack of mod sources is a bit of a headscratcher for me...

JLR wrote :
Quote:
I'd say a mixer is essential in this system and the Moon 526 mixer is one of my most favorite, especially in a small system where versatility counts! (3 inverting channels with mute switches and a master volume control with both positive and negative outputs


yeah - that was my understanding too...

Quote:
I might go for more density of the modules so that you can have two completely independent voices when desired, seeing as how the R24 sequencer is perfect for that, allowing for an 8 or 16 step bass line at a slower rate and a 16 or 8 melody/arpegiation at a faster rate at the same time. You could do that with your initial setup by patching the oscillator outs into the dual VCA first and then patching the VCA's mix output onto the VCF, or just filtering one of the voices, etc


yes - I 'd like to often sequence two separate voices from the R24 & was thinking of doing that exactly as you describe, but I think again the broader point about another filter does stand though... I t would be great to get some more filter action in here..somehow - not sure I need 4 filters though hihi

Plenty of new options to look at here though guys - so thanks again..but please feel free to keep chiming in !
hamildad
Xmit wrote:
I was under the impression the dual EG could be set to loop mode for LFO duties, so you could have an EG & an LFO, or 2 LFOs..whatever. But yes - the broader point about lack of mod sources is a bit of a headscratcher for me...


Looped envelopes will always be positive and so you will only be able to achieve certain types of modulation without an offset, and for this reason I personally would find it hard to live without a LFO.
Xmit
^
yes - thats a bloody good point. d'oh!

hmm... I do have patching from my MS-20M....but doing as much a possible in this one case is the main aim...

ok.... time for more thinking.

ta guys.
ArguZ
Just put in a GRP A4...really..
Xmit
do you mean a GRP A2 - ? Don't think an A4 would fit in there... hihi

Yeah - but that's still semi-modular world innit.....

Thanks guys - I'm struggling to track places in the UK to find some of these modules but I'll keep investigating...
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