Tips for making a very slow envelope

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

Moderators: Kent, Joe., analogdigital, infradead, lisa, parasitk, plord, sduck

User avatar
matcsat
Common Wiggler
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:24 pm
Location: Italy

Post by matcsat » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm

Hi,

a little simulation of a sine wave into "CV in" of the A-152:

Image

Marco.

zerodivide
Common Wiggler
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:05 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Post by zerodivide » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:43 pm

Quadraturia LFO mode on Ornament and Crime would be great for this I think

electricanada
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 918
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:26 am
Location: Norfolk, VA

Post by electricanada » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:36 pm

zerodivide wrote:Quadraturia LFO mode on Ornament and Crime would be great for this I think
Any idea how slow the O&C LFOs and envelopes go?
Eléctrica (electric) Nāda (the yoga of sound).

User avatar
grep
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:38 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Tips for making a very slow envelope

Post by grep » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:23 am

electricanada wrote:What if I want a single eight-minute cycle of a triangle wave, that rises for the first four minutes and falls for the last four minutes--any tips or shortcuts for setting this up? I have a Maths, which according to the manual should be able to last as long as 25 minutes.

I'm not sure how to set it up other than pure trial and error and a watch. I'm hoping there is some kind of shortcut. I have a multimeter and a Mordax Data, if those could be useful in this endeavor.
This can be done using Pamela's New Workout. Set the BPM to 64, set one of the output modifiers to /512 and select the triangle wave. The wave cycle will take 8 minutes to complete.
:tu:

electricanada
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 918
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:26 am
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: Tips for making a very slow envelope

Post by electricanada » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:12 am

grep wrote:
electricanada wrote:What if I want a single eight-minute cycle of a triangle wave, that rises for the first four minutes and falls for the last four minutes--any tips or shortcuts for setting this up? I have a Maths, which according to the manual should be able to last as long as 25 minutes.

I'm not sure how to set it up other than pure trial and error and a watch. I'm hoping there is some kind of shortcut. I have a multimeter and a Mordax Data, if those could be useful in this endeavor.
This can be done using Pamela's New Workout. Set the BPM to 64, set one of the output modifiers to /512 and select the triangle wave. The wave cycle will take 8 minutes to complete.
:tu:
Thanks, brilliant solution. Too bad I only have Pamela's Old Workout. I may have to update the old girl now, and I just bought her a few weeks ago.
Eléctrica (electric) Nāda (the yoga of sound).

User avatar
Timmy
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1236
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 7:08 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by Timmy » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:52 am

electricanada wrote:
zerodivide wrote:Quadraturia LFO mode on Ornament and Crime would be great for this I think
Any idea how slow the O&C LFOs and envelopes go?
Maximum period for Quadraturia, the quadrature LFO app, is about 18 hours, with settable ranges, and the display shows the exact period in seconds with coarse and fine tuning control (and fine tuning is very fine), so you can dial an exact period.

The quad EG even has wiggly segment shapes, just like your diagram above. There are time multipliers for each segment (so you can have a very slow attack and a short decay etc), from 1 time through to 8192 times, which is probably about 18 hours per envelope segment. There's no period display for the envelopes, so you'd need to time them yourself, but once you have the correct numerical duration settings and duration multiplier, the timings will be 100% repeatable.

electricanada
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 918
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:26 am
Location: Norfolk, VA

Post by electricanada » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:45 am

Timmy wrote:
electricanada wrote:
zerodivide wrote:Quadraturia LFO mode on Ornament and Crime would be great for this I think
Any idea how slow the O&C LFOs and envelopes go?
Maximum period for Quadraturia, the quadrature LFO app, is about 18 hours, with settable ranges, and the display shows the exact period in seconds with coarse and fine tuning control (and fine tuning is very fine), so you can dial an exact period.

The quad EG even has wiggly segment shapes, just like your diagram above. There are time multipliers for each segment (so you can have a very slow attack and a short decay etc), from 1 time through to 8192 times, which is probably about 18 hours per envelope segment. There's no period display for the envelopes, so you'd need to time them yourself, but once you have the correct numerical duration settings and duration multiplier, the timings will be 100% repeatable.
Hey, thanks a lot! I have O&C, but haven't learned much of it yet. It seems to require a bit of study.
Eléctrica (electric) Nāda (the yoga of sound).

User avatar
batch
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1008
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:15 am
Location: San Francisco

Post by batch » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:37 pm

Can’t this be done really easily with Pam’s New Workout or similarly capable clock divider.

Set BPM to 64, channel to /512 and use the triangle or envelope. You would have a 0-5V envelope lasting exactly 8 minutes.

Or is my math wrong?
FS: Erica Synths Hi-Hats D $175, Cymbals $175, Stereo Mixer v2 $100, Intellijel 1U Pedal IO $70, MIDI $110, Rebel Tech Bit Reactor $95

electricanada
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 918
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:26 am
Location: Norfolk, VA

Post by electricanada » Wed May 01, 2019 11:15 am

batch wrote:Can’t this be done really easily with Pam’s New Workout or similarly capable clock divider.

Set BPM to 64, channel to /512 and use the triangle or envelope. You would have a 0-5V envelope lasting exactly 8 minutes.

Or is my math wrong?
I lack pnw; how could this be done with a clock divider? I have qcd...
Eléctrica (electric) Nāda (the yoga of sound).

User avatar
Sleipnir
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 704
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:24 am
Location: Los Gatos, CA

Post by Sleipnir » Thu May 02, 2019 9:23 am

This is why I have a 4ms QPLFO :hail:

Edit: You have a QCD and Maths. You're set.
Tap the QCD every 7.5 seconds.
Take a /32 output to the Maths Trigger (Maths set *not* to cycle)
Set Maths Rise and Fall to max
Set the curve to slightly on the Log side of Lin (Maths can't do a 4min triangle).
It will reset every 4 min. Adjust the curve to get the fall to be close to minimum at reset (though you don't even have to be close).
:tu:

User avatar
Paranormal Patroler
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 10675
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: the Terminal beach

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:46 am

Get a Clep Diaz module. It's only 4hp and it works as a clocked envelope. The envelope can be triangle and it can take up to 32 steps to cover the distance. Just use a division of your main clock to have it progress over the 32 steps in 8 minutes. Easy to calculate.

There are other ways as well. a-152 is indeed superb for these kind of patches.
All rights reserved; all wrongs reversed.

User avatar
batch
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1008
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:15 am
Location: San Francisco

Post by batch » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:06 pm

If you don’t have Pam’s you should be able to do this with a standard clock divider. The trick is getting a /512 and a 64bpm clock (or a /256 and 32bpm clock or /128 and a 16bpm)

4ms RCD or similar should be able to do the /128 and you can use Maths to dial in bpm. There are loads of iOS apps that can help you measure bpm if you need that.
FS: Erica Synths Hi-Hats D $175, Cymbals $175, Stereo Mixer v2 $100, Intellijel 1U Pedal IO $70, MIDI $110, Rebel Tech Bit Reactor $95

User avatar
batch
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1008
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:15 am
Location: San Francisco

Post by batch » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:14 pm

Ps. Pam’s is worth getting, I resisted for a year or so and then gave in. Now I have two!!
FS: Erica Synths Hi-Hats D $175, Cymbals $175, Stereo Mixer v2 $100, Intellijel 1U Pedal IO $70, MIDI $110, Rebel Tech Bit Reactor $95

BlinkyLights
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:16 am

Re: Tips for making a very slow envelope

Post by BlinkyLights » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:59 pm

Utterly fascinating and educational thread with some equally interesting responses. So pleased I happened to have a look today.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re:

Post by autopoiesis » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:31 pm

electricanada wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:59 pm
Here is a diagram of a curve that could represent the tension level in a musical performance. If we could make a single cycle of a waveform, and use that as cv to control elements of tension -- such as volume, density, tessitura, etc. -- that would be incredibly useful. The entire basic form of a piece could be encoded in a single waveform. If you then hang some comparators off of that waveform, it gets even more useful for encoding form.

This is the idea I was getting at with mixing one cycle of a very slow rising ramp wave, with several cycles of a slightly faster second ramp wave, to get something like this:

Image
worth mentioning that the euro module Zadar also lets you dial in very long envelopes, up to 30 minutes long, with precision over the total duration shown on the display.

it's also set up well for creating these types of amplitude-modulated ramp waves, if you patch one channel set to a cycling triangle or sinus shape into the CV input of the long ramp channel and assign the CV to its amplitude.

and to trigger new events across a rondo, you can also use the chaining feature to link multiple channels to fire off new envelopes at different phase positions of your long envelope, without tying up a comparator.

I think for all these use cases Zadar is the most convenient all-in-one solution, but it won't compress one-shot or cycling envelope durations to fit clock cycles like QPLFO can.

Post Reply

Return to “Modular Synth General Discussion”