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Q109 attack/release time range
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Q109 attack/release time range
croute
Hi,

Need some long attack and release time for my drones stuff...
I have add a switch on the jumer J5 for the" extra long time" but i haven't the 30 seconde than notice the user manual...it's more 5 s confused
I do not understand,what is wrong?
Maybe it's the 5 volts from the power supply(DIY)than i haven't wired th the Q109?
Thank you!!
Thalassa
From my experience the Q109 needs the 5V to work properly.
Flareless
croute wrote:
Hi,

Need some long attack and release time for my drones stuff...
I have add a switch on the jumer J5 for the" extra long time" but i haven't the 30 seconde than notice the user manual...it's more 5 s confused
I do not understand,what is wrong?
Maybe it's the 5 volts from the power supply(DIY)than i haven't wired th the Q109?
Thank you!!


Without the +5 you'll have all kinds of headaches with Dotcom modules (as well as some modules from other vendors).
croute
Great,thanks for your answers...
I believe than the 5 volts on Dotcom was here only for the digit part,like Doepfer and other vendor for their Midi interface(gates and notes)...i was wrong wink
Thank you!
croute
I have wired the 5 volts to the Q109...it's better for the release time,i have the 30 sec...
But the attack is alway too fast :(,i haven't 30 secondes its' more 5...
Any tips for have a long attack?Could i change a capacitor(if yes,please let me know what part it is on the PCB wink)
I notice the jumper J4 is for to have -5/+5 volts at the output,maybe it's the answer to my question?
Thanks you!
kcd06
If you need really long envelopes, you might try using a sequencer+slew, or a lab bench function generator; Amazon/ebay/industrial junk shops have a variety of the latter for $100USD and less. I havent used one for the purpose, but a Texas Instrument MSP430 could--I think--also be cajoled into being the brain for a roll-your-own module.


You just cant be afraid of...Digital.
hsosdrum
croute wrote:
I have wired the 5 volts to the Q109...it's better for the release time,i have the 30 sec...
But the attack is alway too fast :(,i haven't 30 secondes its' more 5...
Any tips for have a long attack?Could i change a capacitor(if yes,please let me know what part it is on the PCB wink)
I notice the jumper J4 is for to have -5/+5 volts at the output,maybe it's the answer to my question?
Thanks you!

According to page 4 of Dotcom's Q109 Data Sheet, J5 is for "Time Range": No jumper (factory default) = Normal Times, while inserting a jumper will provide "Extra Long Times". The sheet doesn't explain exactly what "extra long times" are, but it should be worth a try.
Just me
STG Soundlabs EG will give you LONG times. And a ton of shapes.

http://stgsoundlabs.com/products/envelope_generator_mu.htm
croute
Quote:
According to page 4 of Dotcom's Q109 Data Sheet, J5 is for "Time Range": No jumper (factory default) = Normal Times, while inserting a jumper will provide "Extra Long Times". The sheet doesn't explain exactly what "extra long times" are, but it should be worth a try.


I did that,without success with a jumper on J5,for the release it's fine it's more long but not for the attack.
The jumper on J5 is only here for to have -5/+5 volts at the output.
I don't understand why Synthetizer.com talk about 30 sec time range(it's the extra long time) if it's not possible confused somethings must be wrong...

Quote:
STG Soundlabs EG will give you LONG times. And a ton of shapes.


This EG is awesome.. i live in E.U the shipping cost +taxe are to expensive(for a example...100 euros of shipping cost for 2 modules from Synthetizer.com...and i don't talk about taxe very frustrating )
trentpmcd
I bought a mod for the Q109 from a forum member, but I can't remember the name nor find the paper work! The main mod was to add a VCA, but there was another where the attack pot was also a switch. Pulled out and you could get super long attacks. I think the member's "handle" was something like MegaOhm. Does anyone remember this, perhaps have an idea of who I am talking about and how to contact him? Something like this might be what the OP is looking for - a switch to easily go from normal behavior to the super long attacks.
Flareless
Here's the link for MegaOhm Audio. There's some cool modules and some VERY useful DIY info.

I also found this old article by Doug Slocum of Synthetic Sound Labs. As Doug listed the file as Free Use Permitted I offer it here. The article explains, in full detail and with photos, how to do the Q109 speed range switch modification.

Thanks Doug for the EXCELLENT document!!! thumbs up
Dave Peck
croute wrote:


I did that,without success with a jumper on J5,for the release it's fine it's more long but not for the attack.
The jumper on J5 is only here for to have -5/+5 volts at the output.
I don't understand why Synthetizer.com talk about 30 sec time range(it's the extra long time) if it's not possible confused somethings must be wrong...


No, J4 sets the polarity (-5V to +5V versus 0V to +10V).

Location J5 sets the attack and release time ranges.

And on mine, putting a jumper across the two pins of J5 (shorting the two right-most pins in the row of four pins) definitely affects both the attack and release.

No jumper, attack and release are both about eight seconds max.

With a jumper shorting these two pins, the attack time now goes up to about 25 seconds and the release time goes up to about 30 seconds.

Check out the Q109 spec sheet on the Dotcom site for details (page 4 of 4):
https://synthesizers.com/products/q109/q109data.pdf
croute
Quote:
No, J4 sets the polarity (-5V to +5V versus 0V to +10V).

Location J5 sets the attack and release time ranges.

And on mine, putting a jumper across the two pins of J5 (shorting the two right-most pins in the row of four pins) definitely affects both the attack and release.

No jumper, attack and release are both about eight seconds max.


It's exactly what i did(on J5)...I have add a switch like Doug Slocum on the J5 pins ,i have a nice and long release time(around 25 secondes)but the attack is too fast,around 5 secondes and no 25 secondes :(
I have modded my 3 Q109 and i have exactly the same time range for the attack and realease.

Quote:
Pulled out and you could get super long attacks.


I looking for this mod on the net but i haven't find a schematic for that,only the mod pack sale by a guy on Muff wink

Do you know where find the attack capacitor on the PCB?
Thank you!
Dave Peck
That is baffling. I don't see how adding a jumper (or closing a switch) at J5 could change the release range from short to long but not also change the attack range from short to long. Especially when it works as intended on other Q109 modules, but not on any of the three that you have.

Could they have changed something in the design between the time I bought mine (many years ago) and when you bought yours, that might have accidentally stopped this J5 jumper from working correctly for selecting attack time ranges?

I think you should email the folks at Dotcom. Be sure to include info about when you bought them and serial number info if possible. Maybe they can figure this out.
megaohm
croute wrote:

Quote:
Pulled out and you could get super long attacks.


I looking for this mod on the net but i haven't find a schematic for that,only the mod pack sale by a guy on Muff wink

Do you know where find the attack capacitor on the PCB?
Thank you!


The attack pot mod is just replacing the attack pot with the same value push/pull pot. Attach the switch part via two wires to the correct header position.

It is VERY strange you are not getting longer attacks with the longer decay.
There is no separate attack cap. Just one charging cap for the whole EG. The long jumper setting places a second larger cap in parallel so they add together to give the longer times (the two cap values add together). If decay times can be lengthened then attack should to.

If all EGs are modded, remove the mods from one of them and use a shunt jumper on that header and check for correct behavior.

If that doesn't do it then post a bunch of close up pics. It may help troubleshoot the issue.
Dave Peck
Q: How are you checking this EG behavior? By patching the EG to a CV input of a filter?

Because maybe it's just opening the filter all the way when the EG is still only at about 6V, so it sounds like the attack is 'done', even though the EG attack voltage is actually still rising.

Try patching it to the pitch mod input of an osc that is tuned to a low note. Turn up the pitch mod knob to only about half way, so the osc's pitch will only rise a total of about 5 octaves when the EG produces ten volts so you can clearly hear the pitch stop rising when the attack portion is done.

Try setting the attack time to MAX and the decay, sustain, and release all to ZERO. So the osc pitch will slowly rise and then suddenly fall at the end of the attack portion.

Do you still get a rise-time of only five to eight seconds, regardless of the jumper/switch position?

Now turn the attack time down to zero and turn up the sustain and release to max, and check the release time, with and without the jumper/switch. How long is that?
croute
Quote:
: How are you checking this EG behavior? By patching the EG to a CV input of a filter?


On a VCA...the sound appeared to fast,it's why i was wrong
I just trying what you write to me,on the pitch of my VCO and yes it working perfectly i have a long and nice attack(around 27 secondes).
I am so stupid d'oh! i guess for my needs i must have another EG with a more long A/R cycle time range than the Q109 or put a slew limiter beetween the Q109 and my VCA...

Thanks a lot all for your help,i am just discover the 5U world after to have leave Eurorack...and it's without regrets,why i haven't put my hands in the 5U before ???
nanners
Dave Peck
a-ha! Mystery solved.

Does your VCA have a linear/exponential response switch? Try changing that switch position and see if it helps give the impression of a 'slower' rise in signal level, especially at the start of the envelope attack portion.

Also, if your vca has controls for both INITIAL GAIN and CV AMOUNT, be sure the INITIAL GAIN is all the way OFF.
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