Moogerfooger Prices...WTF

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Biom
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Post by Biom » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:37 pm

Funch wrote: Could someone point me to a YouTube video or recording where a guitarist or keyboardist is making good music (not just noise) with the moogfogger filter pedal?
Is john frusciante good enough?

There was also that depeche mode epic pic with their beautiful fooger collection, which I can't find right now.

As I already mentioned, you can hook up an lfo to your 101 and turn it into a vibrato pedal with the best sound there is (after the Voodoo Vibe, perhaps).
As for the keys, the 102-103 is a religious setup that can't be challenged.

By the way, the filter in a Phatty is nothing, compared to a 101. I think these filter designs vary between synth models. I'm no expert, but I believe the 101 is the one used in the modular, but definitely not in cheap modern synths.

There are also lots of arguments about the delays. I think, if you are willing to throw a 1k on a delay, get yourself a tape one and be done for the rest of your life.

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Post by Funch » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:39 pm

Biom wrote:
Funch wrote: Could someone point me to a YouTube video or recording where a guitarist or keyboardist is making good music (not just noise) with the moogfogger filter pedal?
Is john frusciante good enough?

There was also that depeche mode epic pic with their beautiful fooger collection, which I can't find right now.

As I already mentioned, you can hook up an lfo to your 101 and turn it into a vibrato pedal with the best sound there is (after the Voodoo Vibe, perhaps).
As for the keys, the 102-103 is a religious setup that can't be challenged.

By the way, the filter in a Phatty is nothing, compared to a 101. I think these filter designs vary between synth models. I'm no expert, but I believe the 101 is the one used in the modular, but definitely not in cheap modern synths.

There are also lots of arguments about the delays. I think, if you are willing to throw a 1k on a delay, get yourself a tape one and be done for the rest of your life.
thanks, had not heard of john frusciante I'll check it out.

The moogfogger filter* is the same ladder filter found in the minimoog, and according to Moog, the slim phatty filter is also a descendant of the minimoog filter.

Moog company quote;

"Based on the powerful Little Phatty sound engine, the Slim Phatty is the latest descendant of the iconic Minimoog Model D and features the classic Moog Ladder Filter, the touchstone of analog sound design"

So the Behringer Model D would also work as an inexpensive alternative to paying exorbitant prices for the pedal version of the same filter.

I agree with you about the tape delay. Had one and its on the list for a re-purchase. Although I do like digital delays and the Behringer Neutron analog delay sounds fine.

*

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Post by nectarios » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:44 am

Stating the obvious here but different Moog filters, sound different.
Slim Phatty sounds differernt to Minimoog, to Minitaur, etc.

Another clear indication is that some Moog filters, self oscillate all the way down to the sub, whereas some vintage Moog filters drop out below 120hz..or there abouts.

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Post by fac » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:20 am

Regarding the MF-101: correct me if I'm wrong but, the 101 has an envelope follower and a 2-pole/4-pole switch, while most moog synths have a fixed number of poles and AFAIK, no envelope follower.

Also, I don't think that the MF-101 at its retail price ($280) was expensive at all. A non-expensive "knockoff" in the modular world would be the dotcom Q150, which costs $190 but has no envelope follower, no preamp, and no power source. Just the dotcom Instrument Interface (preamp + env follower) would cost another $92, so the whole package in a robust pedal form, powered, and from a name brand like moog, for $280 doesn't sound too bad.

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Post by IR » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:42 am

95% of gear on reverb.com is overpriced, and the stuff that isn't doesn't stay on the site for more than two weeks. Most of the gear is more expensive as used items if still available and cheaper new elsewhere. The expensive stuff is there for months, if not years, until someone dumb enough to buy gets it.

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Post by Jason Brock » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:01 am

fac wrote:Regarding the MF-101: correct me if I'm wrong but, the 101 has an envelope follower and a 2-pole/4-pole switch, while most moog synths have a fixed number of poles and AFAIK, no envelope follower.
Some modern Moogs have switchable pole settings, such as the Little Phatty and Subsequent37...maybe others. The convenience of the pedal format and envelope follower are the real advantages of course.

As for alternatives, I sold my 101 and have a WMD Protostar now which I like even more. It sounds great and has more options than the Moog. Still not cheap though.

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Post by Funch » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:08 am

IR wrote:95% of gear on reverb.com is overpriced, and the stuff that isn't doesn't stay on the site for more than two weeks. Most of the gear is more expensive as used items if still available and cheaper new elsewhere. The expensive stuff is there for months, if not years, until someone dumb enough to buy gets it.
only $4,500

https://reverb.com/item/19173966-moog-m ... uper-delay

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Post by nectarios » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:05 am

Funch wrote:
IR wrote:95% of gear on reverb.com is overpriced, and the stuff that isn't doesn't stay on the site for more than two weeks. Most of the gear is more expensive as used items if still available and cheaper new elsewhere. The expensive stuff is there for months, if not years, until someone dumb enough to buy gets it.
only $4,500

https://reverb.com/item/19173966-moog-m ... uper-delay
:yay:

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Post by jakobprogsch » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:07 am

IR wrote:95% of gear on reverb.com is overpriced, and the stuff that isn't doesn't stay on the site for more than two weeks.
That's essentially a survivorship bias problem. Naturally the overpriced stuff doesn't get sold hence it stays around the longest and gets observed the most. If you were able to survey prices by volume sold you might come to a very different conclusion.

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Post by rowsbywoof » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:30 am

Reverb is also a little sneaky on its "final" price reporting. For instance, I've made quite a few offers on Reverb, actually most of my purchases are through making an offer to a seller, but it lists the item as SOLD when completed and doesn't show the actual price it SOLD for, just the listing price. That's sort of giving an incomplete picture of what stuff is going for, as well.

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Post by snufkin » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:24 pm

you can still score these for cheap if you wait around, there were allot made during there time and they are not everyones cup of tea.
WTB: any Digisound80 / Digisound 80 faceplates/pcbs/kits.

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IR
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Post by IR » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:54 pm

jakobprogsch wrote:
IR wrote:95% of gear on reverb.com is overpriced, and the stuff that isn't doesn't stay on the site for more than two weeks.
That's essentially a survivorship bias problem. Naturally the overpriced stuff doesn't get sold hence it stays around the longest and gets observed the most. If you were able to survey prices by volume sold you might come to a very different conclusion.
Yes, I know, I've looked at their price guides.

I think the stuff with good prices is in the US, and doesn't ship to where I live. I occasionally see US stuff priced reasonably, usually with shipping charges close to the price of the item, which makes the silly priced ones competitive.

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Post by Biom » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:57 am

https://www.triungulolab.com/home/20-barbanera.html

For those who are still looking for 101. It is based on both the th and smd designs, best of both worlds kinda, plus the added lfo.

The question is how tolerable you are to pirates. Maybe it was a metaphor for cloning stuff?

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Post by GuyaGuy » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:35 pm

Biom wrote:https://www.triungulolab.com/home/20-barbanera.html

For those who are still looking for 101. It is based on both the th and smd designs, best of both worlds kinda, plus the added lfo.

The question is how tolerable you are to pirates. Maybe it was a metaphor for cloning stuff?
There’s a lot less CV control but I’m sure some people would prefer the LFO and smaller format. Seems to be about the same as the going rate of a 101 so I guess it depends on your preferences.

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Post by fac » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:47 pm

To be honest, I can already do pretty much what the 101 does either with my modular (dotcom Instrument Interface -> STG Mixer -> Q150) or with my subphatty (sort of). If I get a 101, it would be for historical/collecting purposes. I always wanted to have the original trio (101/102/103) in a rack.

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Post by Biom » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 am

GuyaGuy wrote:There’s a lot less CV control but I’m sure some people would prefer the LFO and smaller format. Seems to be about the same as the going rate of a 101 so I guess it depends on your preferences.
I think, the CUTOFF is what you modulate mostly anyway.

For this price you only get a 101, which is useless without the lfo and modulation sources.

Besides, this clone has lots of waveforms, so I'd say it's a 101 plus a portion of 251 in one enclosure.

For those who own more than 2 foogers, a 251 is a logical step, but for those who want only a filter, this one could be a better option if it wasn't for the Treasure Island reference.
Last edited by Biom on Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Biom » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:07 am

fac wrote:To be honest, I can already do pretty much what the 101 does either with my modular (dotcom Instrument Interface -> STG Mixer -> Q150) or with my subphatty (sort of).
Word is that the EMS Synthi 100 is even better for filtering out things.

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Post by GuyaGuy » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:03 pm

Biom wrote:
GuyaGuy wrote:There’s a lot less CV control but I’m sure some people would prefer the LFO and smaller format. Seems to be about the same as the going rate of a 101 so I guess it depends on your preferences.
I think, the CUTOFF is what you modulate mostly anyway.

For this price you only get a 101, which is useless without the lfo and modulation sources.

Besides, this clone has lots of waveforms, so I'd say it's a 101 plus a portion of 251 in one enclosure.

For those who own more than 2 foogers, a 251 is a logical step, but for those who want only a filter, this one could be a better option if it wasn't for the Treasure Island reference.
Like I said, depends on your preferences. A bass player may just use the envelope for modulation, never need an LFO, and need to control mix with an expression pedal. I’m also seeing there’s no envelope out so you can’t use it just as a follower. Not trying to say it’s a bad product, just that it may not check everyone’s boxes.

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Re: Moogerfooger Prices...WTF

Post by pixelforest » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:27 am

Jason Brock wrote: And also look at the asking prices for used Cwejman modules. Those ARE still being manufactured, just very slowly in small batches. Some peoples be crazy.
for varying definitions of "still". consider that some cwejman stuff is made as a batch of ~60 once every N years. there are fewer of them floating around than a lot of rare vintage gear that stopped being made 35 years ago. it's easier to get a hold of an 808 than something like a cwejman SM-1.

not an endorsement of the secondary market pricing, but pointing to them as an example of being currently available is a bit misleading.

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Post by Jason Brock » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:19 am

The WMD Protostar has every possible feature and patch point that I could imagine, and then some (even a compressor to tame those resonant peak spikes). I love the sound of it too...without knowing the architecture I'd guess it is closer to a Roland OTA-based sound instead of the transistor ladder. But in a lot of cases those can sound similar.

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Post by EPTC » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:21 am

I'm sure this is a typo, but if not, laughing my genuine ass off.

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Moog-M ... XSEALw_wcB

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Post by EPTC » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:33 pm

Interestingly, it seems the Moogerfooger three pack (102, 101, 107, and rack kit) is still available new in some places. If of any interest: https://www.gearclubdirect.com/mooger-f ... -bundle-3/

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Post by fac » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:16 pm

A local store has the 101, 102 and 103 for sale (new). About $375 each. Not sure if I should grab the 101.

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Post by donato » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:15 pm

fac wrote:A local store has the 101, 102 and 103 for sale (new). About $375 each. Not sure if I should grab the 101.
I'd say grab both the 102 and especially the 103.

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Post by Biom » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

donato wrote:I'd say grab both the 102 and especially the 103.
Exactly. Though, the 102 can be found for less than 375.

A 101 with lfo can cover a bit of a 102's ground, but I would get a 102+103 combo first, as there are so many great filters out there to be considered.
This WMD one looks like another winner!

Just recently a friend of mine brought a 90's through-hole 103 with a "Bob Moog" on the faceplate. The rate knob acts differently to the modern smd version (probably because of the pots). The smd one goes a bit faster also, which is a nice tweak. Otherwise sound the same to us.
So, I'd not get vintage foogers for more than the modern ones, especially the filter, which was noisier and more prone to weird interference, as far as some of the moogforum users reported.

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