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Modcan A Power Distribution w/Cyndustries SixPacs
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Modcan A Power Distribution w/Cyndustries SixPacs
jvt
I've got a question regarding power distribution options for a Modcan A system built upon a Cyndustries Power (Large) and 4 SixPacs. I currently have 3 SixPacs wired according to Option A. I have a 4th SixPac ready to add to the set up.Is there any reason Option B wouldn't work? I'm primarily interested in the second option to simplify the wiring. By the way, the SixPacs will be bolted together. They're separated in the picture only to highlight the power routing.

Thoughts?

JohnLRice
I've never had any Modcan A stuff or SixPack cases so I'm not very familiar with their power connections but in general I'd say option A looks to be the better design? It might not make a huge difference since they are all close together though? hmmm.....
KSS
jvt wrote:
Is there any reason Option B wouldn't work? I'm primarily interested in the second option to simplify the wiring.
Thoughts?

What level of 'working' are you hoping to achieve? A will nearly always be better than B electrically. See any of Graham Hinton's many power supply replies to get the details of why, and thank George Simon Ohm for his efforts to make the underlying reasons simple.

Have made a new drawing from yours with an option C, which graphically represents a suggested upgrade and Hinton's preferred bussbar solution.

But the problem with this drawing and your original is that it doesn't give enough information about the details. And it's the details which matter to the results.

For example, what is happening between the points a-a, b-b, c-c, and d-d-though this last is as yet unused ?

Even if you make the wires between the SixPacs thicker and therefore less resistance, what is the resistance between their internal points? Those you probably cannot change. That answer is very important to giving you a best result.

Of course there are many examples of daisy-chained systems whose users have been happy for a very long time. Serge classic panels are a good example of a system where the daisy chain seems to work well enough for the vast majority of owners.

As systems get bigger, the potential for issues expands. As more digital modules become part of a system, the potential for issues expands.

Go with system A, or C. While B may work, the extra work you find yourself doing if it coesn't won't be worth the time you spend making A work with your new 4th Sixpac.
jvt
Thanks for the feedback.

I have no idea what impedance each bus board introduces nor how each module would impact the output to the next case. If it helps, most of the modules are analog. Only three are digital (Dual Wavetable VCO, Dual Digital Delay and MIDI-CV)

I just looked at the Hinton Busbar, but it seems more complex than I'd feel comfortable with. I'm ok with very simple circuit board soldering here and there, but I get very nervous when dealing with power supplies. Not to mention it wasn't clear from the pictures how that solution would fit across SixPacs.

I was hoping option B would work because it would be cleaner with fewer wires to manage. Also, the "A" setup currently has the power wires connected directly from the power supply to the bus board in each case making it cumbersome to move around. It's probably possible to DIY some kind of removable connector on each case eliminating the direct wiring, but I'd need help in selecting the right components to ensure everything is electrically sound.

(Edited second paragraph to remove incomplete thought)
JohnLRice
jvt, Can you post a picture of the back of your cases and any additional pictures that would help to show how you currently have it wired?

Also you said
Quote:
the SixPacs will be bolted together.
so, do you plan on moving them still bolted together?
jvt
JohnLRice wrote:
jvt, Can you post a picture of the back of your cases and any additional pictures that would help to show how you currently have it wired?[

Also you said
Quote:
the SixPacs will be bolted together.
so, do you plan on moving them still bolted together?

Here's a picture of the back in the current configuration. Each wire is screwed directly into the internal bus board. The only way to remove them is to remove a module or two and unscrew them.



And, yes I do expect I'll want to move the system to different locations over time, though not regularly. Moving it as is with all three wires connected between the cases and power was a bit awkward last time. Adding a fourth would be worse. That's why I was hoping to either reduce the number of wires or, with suggestions from someone more knowledgable, find a way to attach connectors to the outer case and connect the wires to those. That way I can disconnect the wires from the outside. (I don't know why these cases weren't built that way in the first place.) Then I'd not only be fine with the "star" power distribution as suggested, I could even conceive taking it out for performance one day!

By the way, what's going on with email notifications for watched threads?
JohnLRice
jvt wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
jvt, Can you post a picture of the back of your cases and any additional pictures that would help to show how you currently have it wired?[

Also you said
Quote:
the SixPacs will be bolted together.
so, do you plan on moving them still bolted together?

Here's a picture of the back in the current configuration. Each wire is screwed directly into the internal bus board. The only way to remove them is to remove a module or two and unscrew them.
Thanks for the picture and additional info. thumbs up

There are a lot of ways to go with this, some electrically better than others and pretty much all of them more convenient then the way it is now. cool It just depends on how much mechanical DIY (drilling holes in metal) and wiring DIY (soldering and/or crimping) you are up for?

Here's a couple sixpack pictures I found for reference:




One method might be to attach a large barrier strip (or three small ones etc) to the power supply (or to your "main" six pack, meaning the case you would always use if you use any) and use jumpers on the power supply side of the strip to create enough connection points for all the rails of all the six packs. Then just leave long wire groups hanging out of the six packs as they are now and connect/disconnect from the barrier strip externally as needed. Make sure to stay color coordinated and use crimp-on connectors at least for the six pack cables.




I'd personally want some sort of connector right on the six pack so the case would be nicer to move with no dangling wires etc. Here's some info on the way Synthesizers.com does power connections for auxiliary cases. You could add one circular connector to each case and still use the barrier idea above. or skip the barrier strip and add 2 circular connectors to each six pack case wired in parallel and wired internally to the buss board. (don't wire one connector to one side of the buss board and the other connector to the other side of the buss board) If you go this way you could buy the interconnect cables from Synthesizers.com to make the job a little easier if you use the same panel connectors.


EDIT: Actually, putting 4 connectors in your "main" Six Pack and then just one in each of the other three might be better? That way it would be more of a "star" distribution instead of daisy chaining.
jvt
Thanks, John! I really like the Sythesizers.com cable idea. Though I'm thinking four holes in the power supply case (the fifth SixPac) and then connect the cables to the four SixPacs from there. Do you happen to know the part numbers for the connectors to accommodate the .com cables?

Just a thought. Could standard XLR cables and connectors accomplish the same task? That would certainly simplify getting hold of cables.

I should also mention that I usually keep the power supply on the floor so it doesn't waste space (and because there is also a tiny amount of transformer hum) so the cables will need to be at least 4-6 feet in length.
BananaPlug
Take look here https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=600917#600917

These connectors fit the sixpacs holes perfectly.

For more use search to find posts from me containing Philmore.
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