Polymoog resonator in MU?

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Sir Ruff
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Polymoog resonator in MU?

Post by Sir Ruff » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:29 pm

Were these ever made (and if so, who makes them) or are the few that I have seen just the innards of a polymoog stuck behind the panel?

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diophantine
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Post by diophantine » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:54 pm

Grove has made them for a number of years - apparently they are still available, though I'd suggest emailing to confirm:
https://www.groveaudio.com/pmreso_mu.html

I am sure there are a few others that have been DIY'd from J.Haible PCBs.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:46 pm

thanks! of course as soon as I posted I actually bothered to do a google search and came across their model. :doh: Looks great and decently priced. I also saw that COTK does one... Are there any others out there and has anyone compared them?

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josaka
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Post by josaka » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:07 pm


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burdij
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Post by burdij » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:09 pm

Yes, the PM Resonator is available in both MU and Eurorack format. I have just built up a few recently for customers.
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Post by Sir Ruff » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:43 pm

josaka wrote:DSL man would probably make you one.. hes on here..
https://www.dsl-man.de/display/MAIN/Jue ... +Resonator

Jason @ FSFX also makes them currently..
https://www.kmraudio.com/free-state-fx-fsfx104.php

https://freestatefx.com/collections/fre ... 1218538361
what do you reckon is the best? if there is a best? mainly want it for making wonky/rude bass sounds and getting some different frequencies flowing out of other stuff like ring-mod/wavefolder.

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diophantine
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Post by diophantine » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:55 pm

I have the Grove one, but haven't used any others, so I can't compare.

But I really love the Grove one - sounds great and it is a lot of fun to dial in great sounds on it both live & in the studio.

I think mine is a fairly early Grove one; I have a vague recollection that some improvements have been made since, but I have no clue what it might have been and could be mis-remembering that. No matter... it is a great module.

It does "pop" when going between modes, but that's not surprising, and I suspect others do that, too. Plus, you're likely to just keep it in either LP or BP mode.

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Post by JohnLRice » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:51 pm

I have the Grove PM Resonator and think it's excellent! Also it's the least expensive one by over $100 so that's nice as well. :tu:

I'm pretty sure that there were no 5U (or even eurorack?) PolyMoog type resonant filter modules available until after :hail: Ken Elhardt got the community interested by posting videos and sound bits of what could be done with one. (he removed the filter section from a broken PolyMoog and put it into a stand alone box) I occasionally like to watch this video to remind myself I suck :cry: and to be inspired to be better! :zen:
[video][/video]

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Post by josaka » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:29 am

been watching a few poly demos.. have to say.. none of the 'remakes' really sound like the filter in the Ken Elhardt original demo.. the cutting is way more dramatic and the resonance a lot more ..well.. resonant.. they all sound like polite cousins.. perhaps its the 'demos' .. but looking at the emphasis settings on the vids I dont think its that.. the polymoog sounds 'sharp' all the others softer..

[video][/video]

[video][/video]

[video][/video]

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Post by JohnLRice » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:29 am

josaka wrote:been watching a few poly demos.
Could just be the people demoing, at least in my case?! :oops: I don't have the keyboard performance skills or musical repertoire that Mr. Elhardt has, but I think with the Grove PM Resonator or likely any of the other brands out there that someone could get very close to the same results, or at least close enough to make the purchase and effort worth the reasonable cost?

I did a relatively quick test where I got OK results with my Grove PM Resonator. Since it would take me days of study and practice to even play short excerpts of Medieval/Renaissance music, I cheated and recorded a little bit of Ken's YouTube video where his PolyMoog resonator was bypassed, made WAV files and put them into my SSL Radio Music module to play them back, and then passed that through my Grove PM Resonator as I tried to dial in some enhanced and interesting sounds. Obviously this leaves a lot to be desired but FWIW see the attached. :hide:
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josaka
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Post by josaka » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:55 am

the stuff at the end of the Elhardt hilights the difference I hear.. you can clearly hear what the polyres is doing.. be good to stck a whole track through the grove.. as its a full range of freqs. :)
Could just be the people demoing,
did suggest it may be.. also sliders are way more conducive than knobs for this type of thing.. but the drastic cuts the poly does dont seem present in any of the other demos..
Last edited by josaka on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:03 am

Thanks all, Grove seems like the best value for money, even if it perhaps isn't quite a fuzzy as the original--I just snagged one!

On a similar note, has anyone made anything like the 4MS multiband resonator in MU? That would really be something...
Last edited by Sir Ruff on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by spinach_pizza » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:04 am

I also have the Grove model, and I think it's great. :tu:

I made this several years ago, and I remember using the Grove PM resonator in series with a Q150:

https://soundcloud.com/spinach-pizza/al ... er-orlande

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Post by PeterDeVault » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:20 am

spinach_pizza wrote:I also have the Grove model, and I think it's great. :tu:
I have two and would like a third at some point - I'd like to set up each to produce a particular phoneme and have the audio go through each in turn. Just because. Oh ee oh.
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Post by burdij » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:42 am

Thanks all for the comments. John, I appreciate your demo. What a great idea. Considering the limitations imposed by sample rate effects of both the original video file and MP3 encoding I think it still brings out some of the strengths of the three filter channels for imparting simple formant structure.

I have found that the more accurately one can adjust the formant frequencies, amplitudes, and skirts (resonance) of the filter, the more accurate the simulation of a specific resonant system will be to the ear. And, of course, putting the filter right at the beginning of the signal processing chain is important. The more harmonic content that can be introduced to the filter, the more resources for driving resonant structure one will have to work with.

I have also updated the store with more inventory.
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Post by Jari Jokinen » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:59 am

I have the Grove Audio version which I can recommend. Listen to the examples by spinach pizza.

I agree with josaka, that the original Polymoog resonator sounds different in the demo. But certainly Mr. Elhardt also knows how to use it.

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Post by josaka » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:24 am

are all the polymoog after the haible version based on jurgens PCB ..?

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Post by megaohm » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:21 pm

josaka wrote:are all the polymoog after the haible version based on jurgens PCB ..?
I don't know about the other versions but,
the JH version is a near exact clone of the original.
Same circuits and same part values.

Perhaps opamp choice and/or cap type matters here?
I have no objective proof for or against so can't say.

Could be the sounds, settings, reverb, and playing of the original filter are exerting an influence. Certainly is for me! I think that demo is great. Things sound like human voices, he refers to the Jupiter 8 dry as sounding typical, synthetic, and flat.
:lol:
and then blows us away by easily changing between horn types and playing lines that sound like something horns would play.
Kinda magical.
The percussion section not so impressive.
:hide:

Ideally, one person should create patches and demo all module versions driven by that same patch. It's the only way to do an accurate comparison.
www.MegaOhmAudio.com

Will work for pistachios

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Post by josaka » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:38 pm

The percussion section not so impressive.
maybe.. but you can hear what is going on exactly.. its basically an eq..
and you can hear the frequency cutting well on the full track..

the best grove demo was by a snazzy jumper wearing chap.. seems to be gone from ytube..

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Post by burdij » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:21 pm

In the original Polymoog circuit, the resonator simulates the resonant body of an instrument. That's why it is referred to as a formant filter. The critical function is the level of amplification it gives to certain groups of harmonics in the waveform. That is why it does not need to be tuned to the note that is being played.

The pitch of the waveform gives rise to the harmonics in their characteristic strengths depending on the type of waveform used. The formant imparts how the harmonics are emphasized or diminished depending on the cavity structure of the resonator, be it human vocal tract, body of a violin, or bell of an oboe.

Already implanted in our brains are the recognition templates to separate the instruments by their formant structures and the conditioning is very discriminating. We can easily sense the difference between a violin and a cello playing the same note, for example.

[video][/video]

This is one of my favorite examples of how a formant filter can be used to synthesize strings, brass, and winds.
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Post by Jsharpphoto » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:47 pm

The COTK version has the added functionality of being able to morph, which is awesome. But on the other hand, you have to deal with COTK.

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Post by ranix » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:15 am

I have the Freestate FX Haible Resonator module and it is very nice. One of my favorite modules. It seems to be sold out everywhere at the moment though.

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Post by unrecordings » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:36 am

As another option...
I built the Fritzgreyve version a year or two ago - it converted to MOTM format really easily

http://modularaddict.com/attachments/po ... lymoog.pdf

(and available via Thonk)

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josaka
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Post by josaka » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:27 pm

ranix wrote:I have the Freestate FX Haible Resonator module and it is very nice. One of my favorite modules. It seems to be sold out everywhere at the moment though.
think KMR UK have them..

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Post by MindMachine » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:38 pm

spinach_pizza wrote:I also have the Grove model, and I think it's great. :tu:

I made this several years ago, and I remember using the Grove PM resonator in series with a Q150:

https://soundcloud.com/spinach-pizza/al ... er-orlande
Absolutely stunning work. I am a huge late medieval, Renaissance, early Baroque junky and had never heard of Orlande de Lassus. I primarily admire chamber music and smaller ensembles. Off to check him out. Thank you and beautiful work. Stunning.

I too own the Grove PolyResonator and though not often used it is crucial for certain applications. I use it as much as a processor of other instruments with a Q118 as I use it in patches.
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