Balanced to Eurorack?

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Mr D
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Balanced to Eurorack?

Post by Mr D » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:35 am

Hi folks,

I'm trying to send some audio from my Antelope Goliath (balanced outputs) into Eurorack land for some audio tweaking mayhem, but strangely i don't seem to be getting any signal into Eurorack.

I suspect i have my cable wired up wrong!

Could someone tell me the correct way to send a balanced signal in to ER?

So, on the balanced end i have hot, cold, ground.......... and at the Eurorack end i just have one signal lead + ground.

What do i solder to where?!

Thanks in advance!

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BugBrand
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Post by BugBrand » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:45 am

This is what you need: http://www.rane.com/note110.html

(minor warning - some doepfer modules have the ground/0V on the ring position rather than sleeve due to the jack sockets [made by Cliff])

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flo
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Post by flo » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:04 am

Try screened twisted pair cable and solder the cold and shield together at the unbalanced side... The Rane notes are outdated.

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Graham Hinton
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Re: Balanced to Eurorack?

Post by Graham Hinton » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:07 am

Mr D wrote:Could someone tell me the correct way to send a balanced signal in to ER?
The only correct way is to use a transformer or electronically balanced input.

There are many different types of balanced output circuits and there are conflicting ways of connecting them to unbalanced. Unfortunately Antelope don't give a proper description in their documentation and I would expect better from a £4500 product.

Some balanced outputs can drive unbalanced with the cold side left open, albeit with a 6dB loss. Some must have the cold side connected and some must not have the cold side connected. Some can compensate for one side being shorted by boosting the other by 6dB (subject to clipping). It is a minefield.
So, on the balanced end i have hot, cold, ground.......... and at the Eurorack end i just have one signal lead + ground.
Actually the balanced end has hot, cold and screen and the unbalanced side has signal and 0V. The Eurorack end may not be properly grounded so you are opening a can of worms.

Try leaving the colds unconnected first and see if that works for you. If not come back.

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megaohm
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Post by megaohm » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:42 pm

flo wrote:... The Rane notes are outdated.
In what way is it dated?
What has changed?
What suggestions are given that are wrong in that document?
www.MegaOhmAudio.com

Will work for pistachios

Mr D
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Post by Mr D » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:47 pm

Thanks guys, the cables i tried today had the cold wire unconnected at both ends, but that didn't work.

Tomorrow i'm gonna bust out the multimeter and see if i can work out what's going on.
BugBrand wrote: minor warning - some doepfer modules have the ground/0V on the ring position rather than sleeve due to the jack sockets
I don't understand what you mean, a eurorack mono minijack plug doesn't have a ring!!??

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Graham Hinton
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Post by Graham Hinton » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:25 am

megaohm wrote: What suggestions are given that are wrong in that document?
It suggests cable conversions only by connector type ignoring the different circuits that may be used.

e.g. a floating transformer output must have both terminals connected to something, but a centre tapped transformer must not have one output shorted to the screen. Similar conflicts exist for electronic outputs.

It assumes that the equipment has a properly implemented Chassis Ground and Signal Ground. Eurorack (and most other modular systems) often has neither.

ranix
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Post by ranix » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:54 pm

Mr D wrote: I don't understand what you mean, a eurorack mono minijack plug doesn't have a ring!!??
in a TRS plug you expect to have a signal at the tip, a signal at the ring, and 0V at the sleeve. In a TS plug you expect to have a signal at the tip and 0V at the sleeve.

Normally one might expect to be able to insert a TRS plug into a TS jack and that the jack's sleeve would connect to the sleeve of the TRS plug. However, a TS jack may be incompatible with a TRS plug. Since the physical location on a TRS plug where the ring is, is sleeve on a TS plug, it's possible for the TS jack to make the sleeve connection by touching the area of the TS plug sleeve where ring would be on a TRS plug.

If that's the case then, contrary to one's expectation, when one inserts a TRS plug into a TS jack the TS jack would connect to the ring of the TRS plug rather than to the sleeve.

I sometimes use a module like this https://www.synthesizers.com/q120.html to break ring and tip off a TRS plug and send them to individual TS outputs, or to connect individual TS plugs to and combine them into one TRS output.

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nostalghia
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Post by nostalghia » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:18 pm

“If you look for a meaning, you'll miss everything that happens.” - Andrei Tarkovsky

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monads
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Post by monads » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:58 pm

Another option as well...

ACL Audio Interface

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spilthyfred
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Post by spilthyfred » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:53 am

Your Goliath has ADAT out I believe. You could get an Expert Sleepers ES-3 module and send 8 channels of audio directly through ADAT lightpipe into your modular via the jacks on the ES-3.

I highly recommend this setup, completely painless and fairly affordable.

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