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New poly synth/synth company - ASM Hydrasynth
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Author New poly synth/synth company - ASM Hydrasynth
a100user
Personally I don't see the issue.

Corporate advertising and slogans are often poorly thought out and make no sense in the real world and someone, somewhere will take offense.

The crux of the matter is the product strong enough to survive such marketing blunders?

Probably or at least I hope so
mmp
Yeah, the marketing blunder of getting us all to talk about it for pages of social media.
onthebandwagon
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
There are many people with a strong bias against digital (not always without good reason). A slogan like that will tend to push them farther away. You can say something jokingly and be fine, but if you put it in print then the joking context is lost and it will generally be taken as being said seriously by whoever reads it.

You're right, I'm not sure how ASM will survive this marketing blunder.


Maybe they should immediately release an arturia style video with slowed break dancers and such.
UltraViolet
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
There are many people with a strong bias against digital (not always without good reason). A slogan like that will tend to push them farther away. You can say something jokingly and be fine, but if you put it in print then the joking context is lost and it will generally be taken as being said seriously by whoever reads it.

You're right, I'm not sure how ASM will survive this marketing blunder.


I think they will do quite well with the Hydrasynth. It is a good product that has been well received. The chances of later selling a relatively low cost keyboard midi controller with polyphonic after touch (which they could easily do with Hydrasynth parts) may be another story. Most of that market is analog folks.
vegeta897
UltraViolet wrote:
I think they will do quite well with the Hydrasynth. It is a good product that has been well received. The chances of later selling a relatively low cost keyboard midi controller with polyphonic after touch (which they could easily do with Hydrasynth parts) may be another story. Most of that market is analog folks.

So you think this slogan may harm the potential sales of a controller, which has neither a digital nor analog sound engine in it, and will likely be the only (or most affordable) poly AT controller on the market? I'm just trying to imagine the kind of person that would decide not to purchase based on that rationale.
UltraViolet
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
I think they will do quite well with the Hydrasynth. It is a good product that has been well received. The chances of later selling a relatively low cost keyboard midi controller with polyphonic after touch (which they could easily do with Hydrasynth parts) may be another story. Most of that market is analog folks.

So you think this slogan may harm the potential sales of a controller, which has neither a digital nor analog sound engine in it, and will likely be the only (or most affordable) poly AT controller on the market? I'm just trying to imagine the kind of person that would decide not to purchase based on that rationale.


Most affordable poly AT controller is the Roli Seaboard Block at under $300. The Seaboard Rise 49 just dropped under $1k. The Seaboard is actually better than just poly AT since it also has vibrato control and another parameter for forward/backward on keys, but it is a bit different for someone used to standard keyboard keys. So it wouldn't be the only or most affordable. Also TouchKeys is still out there as well.
vegeta897
UltraViolet wrote:
Most affordable poly AT controller is the Roli Seaboard Block at under $300. The Seaboard Rise 49 just dropped under $1k. The Seaboard is actually better than just poly AT since it also has vibrato control and another parameter for forward/backward on keys, but it is a bit different for someone used to standard keyboard keys. So it wouldn't be the only or most affordable. Also TouchKeys is still out there as well.

You're moving goalposts my dude, and missing my point. You called it low cost, and it would be. This makes it attractive to anyone looking for a poly AT keyboard, specifically one that is actually a traditional keyboard and not whatever the Roli boards are. I'm saying a slogan they used for their synth is entirely irrelevant to someone buying a product to which the slogan doesn't even apply.
UltraViolet
vegeta897 wrote:
You're moving goalposts my dude, and missing my point. You called it low cost, and it would be. This makes it attractive to anyone looking for a poly AT keyboard, specifically one that is actually a traditional keyboard and not whatever the Roli boards are. I'm saying a slogan they used for their synth is entirely irrelevant to someone buying a product to which the slogan doesn't even apply.


The whole poly AT keyboard thing is anyone's guess. TouchKeys was amazing, but it seems to have failed. It could have been a price thing. It could be that there are a few people that really want poly AT keyboards, but there aren't enough of them to be a big enough market. It could be a deadlock situation where most people don't want to buy a poly AT keyboard unless most popular synths have full support for them while synth makers don't want to spend their limited resources to provide full support for poly AT keyboards until there are a lot of them out in the field. Or it could be that most people don't want poly AT because it is harder to learn to play well. Or all of the above, or none of the above. Its a good mystery. Its great that the Hydrasynth has poly AT. It will put a lot of poly AT keyboards out in the field if that was a part of the problem.

As far as the slogan goes, only time will tell. The Hydrasynth and Argon 8 are big winners at the moment after their success at Knobcon and in the press, but in a year or two there will be something new in the spotlight.
Sinamsis
UltraViolet wrote:
vegeta897 wrote:
You're moving goalposts my dude, and missing my point. You called it low cost, and it would be. This makes it attractive to anyone looking for a poly AT keyboard, specifically one that is actually a traditional keyboard and not whatever the Roli boards are. I'm saying a slogan they used for their synth is entirely irrelevant to someone buying a product to which the slogan doesn't even apply.


The whole poly AT keyboard thing is anyone's guess. TouchKeys was amazing, but it seems to have failed. It could have been a price thing. It could be that there are a few people that really want poly AT keyboards, but there aren't enough of them to be a big enough market. It could be a deadlock situation where most people don't want to buy a poly AT keyboard unless most popular synths have full support for them while synth makers don't want to spend their limited resources to provide full support for poly AT keyboards until there are a lot of them out in the field. Or it could be that most people don't want poly AT because it is harder to learn to play well. Or all of the above, or none of the above. Its a good mystery. Its great that the Hydrasynth has poly AT. It will put a lot of poly AT keyboards out in the field if that was a part of the problem.

As far as the slogan goes, only time will tell. The Hydrasynth and Argon 8 are big winners at the moment after their success at Knobcon and in the press, but in a year or two there will be something new in the spotlight.


Couple things.... big difference between MPE and polyphonic aftertouch. I think the big limit here is getting full on MPE support, and I really mean that from a DAW standpoint. Polyphonic AT support doesn't seem all that rare. Newer DSI synths almost universally support it I believe. I believe the One will eventually get full on MPE support. Really any multitimbral synth can be used with MPE. And really in terms of modern devices it seems most are geared towards full on MPE rather than polyphonic AT.
Panason
I tried the Roli Rise in a shop... horrendous feel (I'm not even a keyboard player) and will surely not be in good shape 5 years down the line. Silicone has no place in anything other than drum pads- the kind that you hit with sticks. I don't see how anyone who has ever laid their hands on a piano would want to play this thing.

I think Poly AT wil be a really inspiring thing to have and can make keyboards more attractive to play- if it's done right. The normal aftertouch on the entry level keyboards i have tried has always been pretty shite- too stiff and/or not enough travel.
Sinamsis
Panason wrote:
I tried the Roli Rise in a shop... horrendous feel (I'm not even a keyboard player) and will surely not be in good shape 5 years down the line. Silicone has no place in anything other than drum pads- the kind that you hit with sticks. I don't see how anyone who has ever laid their hands on a piano would want to play this thing.

I think Poly AT wil be a really inspiring thing to have and can make keyboards more attractive to play- if it's done right. The normal aftertouch on the entry level keyboards i have tried has always been pretty shite- too stiff and/or not enough travel.


We're veering off topic a bit here, but it is somewhat pertinent as it really does help distinguish the merits of polyphonic aftertouch and those of MPE. I think if you want a traditional keyboard experience, the MPE controllers aren't going to do it. But the MPE controllers offer an experience very different from a traditional keyboard and this includes the Rise. It really isn't about velocity, it's all about gentle pressure. Being able to slide between notes is cool too. It's just a very different way to interact with an instrument, even though it's laid out like a traditional keyboard. XY pad and 3 sliders are very expressive too. I do agree about the silicone. I had a Rise49 for a while and sold it because I was concerned about the longevity, and I didn't like how it bunched with slides and glides. I may get one again at some point though, because there really is nothing like it, and having tried other options, I haven't really been satisfied.

Polyphonic aftertouch interests me. In general, I don't use aftertouch often on keyboards. I usually use velocity for expression, which to me is more traditional. I also find that I have trouble really controlling aftertouch on my keyboards and values go from zero to 60 rather quickly. Regardless, it is not a common feature, and to have it on a keybed of a very reasonably priced synthesizer is exciting. I do wish it was 61 keys though!
wiperactive
Sinamsis wrote:

.... Polyphonic aftertouch interests me. In general, I don't use aftertouch often on keyboards. I usually use velocity for expression, which to me is more traditional. I also find that I have trouble really controlling aftertouch on my keyboards and values go from zero to 60 rather quickly. Regardless, it is not a common feature, and to have it on a keybed of a very reasonably priced synthesizer is exciting. I do wish it was 61 keys though!


I'm really hoping that the Poly AT on this impressive synthesiser lives up to the claims of ASM, not only in terms of feel, but mechanical longevity. Yes, I agree, 61 keys would have been better as would double the polyphony but I'm prepared to eat that if it keeps the pricing amenable.

As you say, aftertouch varies so much from one synth to another... oddly the best 'goldilocks' zone response I've ever experienced was when I replaced the trashed AT strip on a second-hand Roland alpha Juno 2 with one from another manufacturer... I've hung on to that synth as a controller well past the synth engine limitations became an issue solely because of the great keyboard feel in all respects. A nice new - smooth response - AT strip and a solid, but fast, feel under the fingers.

Poly AT is important to me (and I suspect many others) for two main reasons:

I already have heaps of viable MIDI synths (keyboard and rack) that predate MPE, but respond to Poly AT.

Although I'm not a keyboard centred synthesist - no Hancock, Wakeman or Zawinul - Poly AT conventionally requires some 'skilling-up' for the more accomplished, faster moving, keyboardist but it can still be of great expressive benefit for the less dexterous in areas of slower chordal work such as pads and the like.
UltraViolet
We seem to be going off topic with the Poly AT and MPE discussion. Since I am at least partially responsible for this, I started a new thread to continue the discussion and let this thread get back on topic. Lots of great thoughts so far, please continue here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3131805#3131805

Thanks.
tthogs
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.
Nelson Baboon
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.


really? You have no preference at all about one synth sounding better than another, and view any differences as totally due to programming ability? And all synths are equally easy to program, no matter how much you might dislike the sound, or the user interface? They are all the same?

and only people who have a career in music are capable of making judgements on a synth?

We start out with some agreement on how some people trash an instrument based on internet demos, but the rest of your post? wow.
Homepage Englisch
I'm just going through the manual.

Note on CV inputs and outputs:

Pitch CV range: Octave 0-10V, -/+5V, Hz 0-10V. Reference note for Hz/oct could be set from C-1 to G9.
Pitch CV offset from -99 to +99 cents.
Source could be either keyboard or ribbon.

Gate CV could be set to 3V, 5V, 10V. V-trig or S-trig.

CV Clock: 3V, 5V, 10V. Clock division off, 1/2, 2, 4. Clock rate 1 PPS, 2 PPQ, 24 PPQ, 48 PPQ. Offset +- 100 ms.

There are two CV modulation inputs and outputs, each could be set individually to +/- 5V, 0-10V, 0-5V, 0-1V with individual offsets +-3V.

There's no sequencer in traditional sense, but each of 5 LFOs could be in a "step mode" which is a steppy waveform like a 8-step seqencer, where each step could be edited manually.

Arpeggiator have options for ratcheting and ratcheting probability, and it all sends CV gates.

There's macros which could assign quite a number of modulation destinations. Some of the sources are both CV Inputs and MIDI CC's; destinations could also be MIDI CC's and CV outputs. There's a brief chapter on how CV could be inverted, attenuated or boosted.

And then you can use a mod matrix and some source like LFO and set it to have a MACRO as a DESTINATION.

I've seen CV keyboards with much less options for much more money.

I'm in.
Panason
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.



I suggest a professionals-only forum, with credentials required to join.

Quote:

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad.

Oh boy. This must be the hardware synth to end all hardware synths.


Quote:


Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop.


Anything else you'd like?
onthebandwagon
edit: wrong thread very frustrating
tthogs
Nelson Baboon wrote:
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.


really? You have no preference at all about one synth sounding better than another, and view any differences as totally due to programming ability? And all synths are equally easy to program, no matter how much you might dislike the sound, or the user interface? They are all the same?

and only people who have a career in music are capable of making judgements on a synth?

We start out with some agreement on how some people trash an instrument based on internet demos, but the rest of your post? wow.


Of course certain synths sound better than others. However in this synths specific case, the capabilities are so vast that judgements for example that it sounds "thin" or "too this or too that" are just nonsense. Like some guy wrote that the new modal synth "sounds better" and I just can't get down with that as both instruments, to a meaningful degree are practically and sonically arbitrary and how you use them and the parameters you set will have so much more to do with the sound at the end then folks are willing to admit here.

When did I say people who don't have music careers can't judge instruments? I'm just saying that I see it as clearly apparent when people trash talk an instrument that for me would be wildly convenient and viable for my workflow. The layout is amazing and intuitive. No one has even brought up the well thought out randomize feature. Incredible. Maybe I'm just a fanboy.
Nelson Baboon
tthogs wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.


really? You have no preference at all about one synth sounding better than another, and view any differences as totally due to programming ability? And all synths are equally easy to program, no matter how much you might dislike the sound, or the user interface? They are all the same?

and only people who have a career in music are capable of making judgements on a synth?

We start out with some agreement on how some people trash an instrument based on internet demos, but the rest of your post? wow.


Of course certain synths sound better than others. However in this synths specific case, the capabilities are so vast that judgements for example that it sounds "thin" or "too this or too that" are just nonsense. Like some guy wrote that the new modal synth "sounds better" and I just can't get down with that as both instruments, to a meaningful degree are practically and sonically arbitrary and how you use them and the parameters you set will have so much more to do with the sound at the end then folks are willing to admit here.

When did I say people who don't have music careers can't judge instruments? I'm just saying that I see it as clearly apparent when people trash talk an instrument that for me would be wildly convenient and viable for my workflow. The layout is amazing and intuitive. No one has even brought up the well thought out randomize feature. Incredible. Maybe I'm just a fanboy.


i don't feel like devolving into an argument, but your comments here are more measured than in your previous post. And sure - you explicitly called out people who are not making a "flourishing career" as not qualified to make judgements here.

obviously we weren't arguing about whether the hydrasynth looks like a great instrument. Mine is ordered.
iSapien1956672
I played the synth at Knobcon, I was happy with the editing, user interface, sounds, sound manipulation, ease of use, knob placement, port placement.

Really thought out synth.
Played some roland, yamaha, sequentials, and I was pretty much meh with them all.

To me, it's a very inspiring synth with it's own personality.
I also thought the Matriarch was very inspiring, so what do I know?

So many complaints from a marketing ploy.

you either like the synth or you don't.
move on to a synth you do like.
why bash constantly?
sad banana seriously, i just don't get it
tehyar
Bad, good, worst, best, thin, fat, whatever - you’re losing sight of the fact that these are purely subjective statements. This means they are 100% true from the perspective of the one stating them, and meaningless to you. If you can’t accept this then you’re likely going to have a hard time dealing with official statements like “best tacos north of the border”. Judging a taco has nothing to do with the skill of the eater.

Saying that the reason someone doesn’t develop the same opinion as you is due to their own limitations or foolishness is just a statement of arrogance. Pretentious smacktalkin.
Sinamsis
iSapien1956672
Did you play the desktop module or the keyed version?

I really think I will get one of these at some point, probably pending user reviews, but I wanted to know if one felt significantly easier to program? And if you felt that the pads added to the functionality.

The keyed version certainly caught my attention, but 49 keys made me lose interest to some degree. I have limited space so I'd probably have to get rid of some keyed instrument if I bring in another keyed instrument in. Plus the desktop version I think I could fit in with relative ease right in front of my system. I'm not a huge fan of small pads, but I think it is an interesting way to interface with an intstrument. Also, how is the aftertouch on the pads, if you tried them?
UltraViolet
tehyar wrote:
Saying that the reason someone doesn’t develop the same opinion as you is due to their own limitations or foolishness is just a statement of arrogance. Pretentious smacktalkin.


There is actually some validity to parts of what tthogs is saying. But, once you insult people by saying that aren't qualified to judge what is good, it doesn't really matter anymore.
iSapien1956672
Sinamsis wrote:
iSapien1956672
Did you play the desktop module or the keyed version?

I really think I will get one of these at some point, probably pending user reviews, but I wanted to know if one felt significantly easier to program? And if you felt that the pads added to the functionality.

The keyed version certainly caught my attention, but 49 keys made me lose interest to some degree. I have limited space so I'd probably have to get rid of some keyed instrument if I bring in another keyed instrument in. Plus the desktop version I think I could fit in with relative ease right in front of my system. I'm not a huge fan of small pads, but I think it is an interesting way to interface with an instrument. Also, how is the aftertouch on the pads, if you tried them?


I played the keyed version, I'm not a huge piano octave player so 49-61 work for me for waht I do.

I'm also not a Digital/Analog purist "snob" so I thought the digital was really good and its analog sound were pleasant (to my liking)

It was at knobcon, and one of the hype synths of the show so there were a lot of people waiting to get a taste, didn't have a ton of time to dive deep, but from what I was able to get into I was happy with what a company I had never heard of came out with straight outta the gate.

If I didn't have a kid in Daycare and Mortgage I would definitley buy this synth in the keyed version.
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