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New poly synth/synth company - ASM Hydrasynth
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Author New poly synth/synth company - ASM Hydrasynth
deltaphoenix
I searched and didn't get any results.

Am 8 voice wavetable based synth. The keyboard version has a 49key PolyAT keyboard, there is also a desktop version. It looks like the keys version is going to be $1299 and the desktop will be $799.

More info here:

http://www.ashunsoundmachines.com/hydrasynth-key?fbclid=IwAR3bkVUnYJOx ALiV-kxQfVNCcK0PL1UA3E5A99Frn8tTM9-oZjIIF_ZaumI

Looks pretty cool. Anyone know more about it?

Specs:

8 Voice Advanced Wavetable synthesis

2 Wavemorphing Oscillators
219 single cycle waveforms
User wavetables - 8 user selectable ‘wavelist’ per osc to build user wavetables
Every osc and patch can have its own user wavetable
WaveScan parameter for modulating through wavetables.
Keytracking – 0-200%
+/- 3 octave tuning range
1 fixed Wave OSC
219 single cycle waveforms
+/- 3 octave tuning range
Keytracking – 0-200%
Dual Mutators per oscillator
FM – Linear FM
Selectable Modulator source
Built in Sine & Triangle, OSC1, OSC2, OSC3, Mutators A, B, C, D, Noise gen, Ring Mod, External Mod 1&2 input.
WaveStack – Generates 5 detuned waves from input source. Detune amount.
Pulse Width Mod – Adjust pulse width of ALL waveforms.
PWSqueeze – Compresses the center section of the waveform. Differnnt type of PWM
PW-ASM – 8 User adjustable wave squeeze/stretch points.
Hard Sync – gives that classic sync sweep sound.
Selectable Sync input source.
Harmonic Sweep – will scan through the harmonics of the incoming sound.
Dry/Wet mix to blend the original OSC source.
Noise Generator
White, Pink, Brown noise sources
Ring modulator
Selectable input sources
OSC1, OSC2, OSC3, Noise, All Mutator outputs, External Mod ½ in.
Depth control
Sound source mixer
Mix the following sources - OSC1, OSC2, OSC3, Noise, and Ring Mod.
Panning for each source
Filter routing mix
Solos for each source (solo status is saved in the patch)
Two Filters
Series or parallel routing
Filter 1
12 & 24db modern ladder (compensated)
12 & 24db vintage ladder (uncompensated)
Threeler HP, LP
MS20 HP, LP
Low Pass Gate
Vocal filter
Multiple vowel order parameter
Formant parameter
Filter 2
Continuously Variable Lowpass-Band pass-High pass (Oberheim SEM style)
deltaphoenix
RickKleffel
That seems pretty damn awesome AND comparatively inexpensive for what you get. Haven't had the least bit of interest in a keyboard for a while, but this surely turned my head. Have to see what the desktop thing does, as Nick mentions it has "pads." A nice bit of PPG, with a bucket-load of innovation.... Wowsers.

These are surely boom times for synthesists, even those on a space/cashflow budget.

This is the synthesizer you were looking for.
david_r
A bunch of youtube videos just popped up about this synth.







Fallen_lassen
Yes.
ckwjr
love to see those coordinated YouTube reviews post within seconds of each other. Get those social media influencers marching in lock step.
deltaphoenix
ckwjr wrote:
love to see those coordinated YouTube reviews post within seconds of each other. Get those social media influencers marching in lock step.


Ha, I was going to say something along the same lines! Amazing how well put together their announcement is.
MARK27
This is one of the first synthesizers I've seen that really qualifies as a modern synthesizer, as opposed to some incremental improvement on a classic synth or laptop-substitute workstation.

It isn't trying to do everything under the sun and is really just trying to provide a modern, contemporary-capabilities synth engine.

If I wasn't such an old analog man, with one foot permanently in the past, I would be really interested in this thing. It looks really powerful and all the sounds I've heard have a unique robust-digital modern quality.

I kinda wish I had a kid for whom to get this thing.
deltaphoenix
MARK27 wrote:
This is one of the first synthesizers I've seen that really qualifies as a modern synthesizer, as opposed to some incremental improvement on a classic synth or laptop-substitute workstation.

It isn't trying to do everything under the sun and is really just trying to provide a modern, contemporary-capabilities synth engine.

If I wasn't such an old analog man, with one foot permanently in the past, I would be really interested in this thing. It looks really powerful and all the sounds I've heard have a unique robust-digital modern quality.

I kinda wish I had a kid for whom to get this thing.


Dad!?!?! Is that you?
GuyaGuy
deltaphoenix wrote:
MARK27 wrote:
This is one of the first synthesizers I've seen that really qualifies as a modern synthesizer, as opposed to some incremental improvement on a classic synth or laptop-substitute workstation.

It isn't trying to do everything under the sun and is really just trying to provide a modern, contemporary-capabilities synth engine.

If I wasn't such an old analog man, with one foot permanently in the past, I would be really interested in this thing. It looks really powerful and all the sounds I've heard have a unique robust-digital modern quality.

I kinda wish I had a kid for whom to get this thing.


Dad!?!?! Is that you?

Like
nectarios
I like the looks, interface and features.
The sound is a bit ..."eh"...I mean those nasal thin wavetables remind me of the cheap 80s synths... that are by the way, becoming cool again...for whatever reason.
Having said that, it does sound like it will sit in a busy mix with minimum fuss, which is also important.

But the interface is great and this is feature packed. Although its 2019 and for a digital synth that is mono timbral... it does raise a few eyebrows.

FX are decent. Might pick one up in the second hand market...but I think this will do well as its reasonably priced. It will probably put a dent into Novation's Peak, maybe.

Time will tell.
MARK27
deltaphoenix wrote:
MARK27 wrote:
I kinda wish I had a kid for whom to get this thing.


Dad!?!?! Is that you?


Only yer momma can answer that.

But tell her me and the rest of the gang send our regards!
Panason
Nice. I approve of:
-Design. LED rings around encoders make me wet, baby
-Poly AT, ribbon
-Rigid buttons, no silicone

However, I disapprove of:

-Only 8 voices for a DSP synth?
-Sound seems a bit weak. This can't touch the Peak!
-Desktop version has all those pads and no step sequencer? A real missed opportunity.
beatcleaver
I don't know, I can't say I'm impressed with the sound - at least so far - I've listened to three demos. Interface looks good but doesn't sound anything special to me. Not bad by any means, it seems to produce quite a variety of timbres, and that's a decent price.

A lot of envelopes and modulation possibilities but would be nice if it was multi-timbral.
mongrol
ckwjr wrote:
love to see those coordinated YouTube reviews post within seconds of each other. Get those social media influencers marching in lock step.


and you can't trust a single one of them. neutral
rowsbywoof
Is this like a modern-day Fizmo? Sure sounds like they’re talking around not saying Transwave Synth. Looks interesting, either way, I’m curious to see how this one develops.
Dcramer
Really a beauty of a design, love those design nods to Ensoniq love
The synth architecture seems a bit like a Blofeld on steroids eek!
anselmi
I like the synthesis specs and it seems to have a solid construction,,,the ESQ-style editing is also a nice touch

sound is OK, not disapointning, but nothing groundbreaking though...

about aesthetics...I dunno...some parts of it are nice, but the overall impression is that it looks like the work of somebody who is not truly involved in synth design
they need somebody like Alex Hartmann...this man have the golden touch

anyway, a nice surprise...I hope they can grow and release more interesting products
SteeVtheRipper
I really am digging this synth! I was all settled on the Summit as m next purchase but this has me reconsidering. I do agree the sound demos thus far have been kind of meh, but...like the Moog One...I think once more people get their hands on them and spend some time really diving in we are going to hear some compelling stuff. I’ll be keeping my eye on this. Bummed that it’s 49 heys, only 8 voices and monotimbral. But the sheer amount of sound shaping possibilities is staggering. I think the interface is slick and smart. Had they added an extra octave there would be room for more knobs. Sequencer would have been nice but I don’t use them much personally. User wave forms also would have been welcome. But all things considered I think it’s a really exciting new offering. Love the look of it, especially they keyboard version. That black and orange is attractive, the cheeks remind me of a Jup8 and the Hydrasynth badging on the rear of the keyboard model reminds me of the Odyssey. Yes poly AT, Yes ribbon, Yes informative oLEDs! It’s crazy to think that just a few years ago Behringer DM12 at $1000 seemed like a steal. Competition is a great thing. This synth really stands out among the current crop of polys. Excited to see more!
nectarios
mongrol wrote:
ckwjr wrote:
love to see those coordinated YouTube reviews post within seconds of each other. Get those social media influencers marching in lock step.


and you can't trust a single one of them. neutral


Why not just trust your ears and eyes?
There is video of how the synth works and audio of what the synth, sounds like.
thee ghost ov n_phay
ckwjr wrote:
love to see those coordinated YouTube reviews post within seconds of each other. Get those social media influencers marching in lock step.


Rather offputting innit. The instrument does look interesting though, will wait for sonicstate full review.
mmp
I have been having a great time using polyphonic aftertouch with my Peak. I would love a Summit if it had polyaftertouch. I am thinking this combined with a Peak might be something worth owning.
tobb
Total shitty design...cv gate jacks on the top panel...lol

Its of course cheaper then making another pcb that has to fit at the back with a ribbon cable..
Prints
tobb wrote:
Total shitty design...cv gate jacks on the top panel...lol

Its of course cheaper then making another pcb that has to fit at the back with a ribbon cable..


I prefer the CV jacks on the top panel.
nectarios
Prints wrote:
tobb wrote:
Total shitty design...cv gate jacks on the top panel...lol

Its of course cheaper then making another pcb that has to fit at the back with a ribbon cable..


I prefer the CV jacks on the top panel.

Same, easier to access.
Prints
nectarios wrote:
Prints wrote:
tobb wrote:
Total shitty design...cv gate jacks on the top panel...lol

Its of course cheaper then making another pcb that has to fit at the back with a ribbon cable..


I prefer the CV jacks on the top panel.

Same, easier to access.


We must be shitty designers..
Flux302
Prints wrote:
tobb wrote:
Total shitty design...cv gate jacks on the top panel...lol

Its of course cheaper then making another pcb that has to fit at the back with a ribbon cable..


I prefer the CV jacks on the top panel.


1) not at all a cost cutting measure, this was the design decision day one.
2) you would want cv where? In the back where you can’t get to it ... ok smh .

As for the “influencer lock step” something tells me you guys don’t understand how an embargo works.... no “influencers” were paid it wasnt a “you must release at this time....
an embargo means you are not allowed to go live u til x time and date. That’s how the world works. Those who were excited about it, did their videos and made em live the minute the embargo was lifted... so really what you are seeing is people who don’t leak before hand. Quite a positive thing imho.

Sometimes people wanna gripe about things that make me scratch my head.
nectarios
Prints wrote:
nectarios wrote:
Prints wrote:
tobb wrote:
Total shitty design...cv gate jacks on the top panel...lol

Its of course cheaper then making another pcb that has to fit at the back with a ribbon cable..


I prefer the CV jacks on the top panel.

Same, easier to access.


We must be shitty designers..

Yes.
Joking aside, I just like to patch cables to make sounds and find it much easier to access jacks on the top panel of something that is laying on a desk.
Panason
I guess tobb's objection is that exposed upward facing sockets are prone to dust and liquid entry?

Quote:


no “influencers” were paid it wasnt a “you must release at this time....


Look, we're just tired of these guys pretending to be un-biased and independent. They get paid by Youtube ads and they need to get the hardware to do the videos, and companies aren't going to work with them if they didn't act as free publicity.
The only one who has some clout and is able to be a bit more critical is Nick Batt, the others generally seem like little more than influencers, so you don't need to put it in quote marks. At least we're not saying "shills"!
Flux302
I’m mobile so I doubt my links will work how I want... but seeing as this is MW I figured I’d be safe posting my nerdy videos here. I was involved early in the voicing process of this synth so I figured I would show what the mutants do. Really they do so much it’s hard to show it all and of course one selection of waveform/mutant combo might be the opposite of what another person would want to here but hey..
So here is a 30 min look at just the oscillator section


Sorry if that doesn’t embed
Flux302
Panason wrote:
I guess tobb's objection is that exposed upward facing sockets are prone to dust and liquid entry?

Quote:


no “influencers” were paid it wasnt a “you must release at this time....


Look, we're just tired of these guys pretending to be un-biased and independent. They get paid by Youtube ads and they need to get the hardware to do the videos, and companies aren't going to work with them if they didn't act as free publicity.
The only one who has some clout and is able to be a bit more critical is Nick Batt, the others generally seem like little more than influencers, so you don't need to put it in quote marks. At least we're not saying "shills"!


My point is it’s a company trying to get the word out about its product. So they go to the advertising platforms that are going to reach the people who are going to be interested in their product. It’s a your damned if you do damned if you don’t thing. If you don’t like a particular YouTube channel, don’t watch it. That’s how you combat shills and shitty content.
Knowing most of those people personally I can say that most of them if they don’t like a product, just don’t review or advertise it. Ethics + YouTube is a fine line these days and most of those people are good people and that’s how they handle it. Anyway this is completely side tracking the discussion about the synth. So sorry for that.
GUM
at $800 a retro-looking 3osc wavetable desktop synth with poly-aftertouch pads (!), formant filter, looping envelopes that can sync to external bpm, and 5 LFO's (!) with an open mod matrix is a definite no-brainer, must buy for me.
damase
would be awesome to have a simple midi controller with this PolyTouch keybed
mmp
Sure would be nice. Hint hint.

damase wrote:
would be awesome to have a simple midi controller with this PolyTouch keybed
mush
It is quite an interesting team. Daniel T. who was one of the elektron founders, Glen D. former Arturia. ASM sure know how to get good people.
ckwjr
I don't have any objections to the idea of an extremely coordinated marketing campaign for a completely unknown/new brand. When a campaign looks more organic, it's not that it is necessarily more organic but often because the marketing is more savvy. Here it's been kind of brute force, but highly effective. Banner up at Perfect Circuit. Perfect Circuit Video. 2 videos at Sweetwater. Loopop, Bobeats, Sonic State, etc. It's not different from other products really. If I had a new product for this market, this is how I would market it. That's what YouTube is for...now...

The embargo is an effective "on switch" for a marketing campaign, so it seems disingenuous to suggest there's something arbitrary about the deluge of social media happening simultaneously.

I like knowing about new products. That's a big reason I visit this site and am a solid customer of this kind of gear. It's just interesting to watch the process unfold. No judgment from me.
TheRosskonian
Flux302 wrote:
I’m mobile so I doubt my links will work how I want... but seeing as this is MW I figured I’d be safe posting my nerdy videos here. I was involved early in the voicing process of this synth so I figured I would show what the mutants do. Really they do so much it’s hard to show it all and of course one selection of waveform/mutant combo might be the opposite of what another person would want to here but hey..
So here is a 30 min look at just the oscillator section


Sorry if that doesn’t embed


I listened to all the demos on the official site and while they sounded good, this video does more for showing the sound of the synth, thanks for sharing this one.

Interested to see/hear more of this synth in action now that it's been announced, the spec list alone is rather impressive. Did anyone catch a release date?
kcd06
Nice to see BBoy tech report getting some attention.

Also, some people here could really chill a bit on their contempt. I'm not sure about some of the channels that got one of these synths (because I've not watched all the currently available vids), but others like Sonicstate has been a reliable and enthusiastic information source for years, Ken Pierce/Fluxwithit is among the last people I would accuse of being a mindless corporate shill, and Sweetwater is--as the others are--demonstrating and *gasp* having fun with a cool new instrument. There are no commercials of someone doing a deadmou5 impression in an oddly clean and carefully lit warehouse, no one-finger-Vangelis wannabes with a blizzard of 1/2 second cuts and lingering gear porn shots, no marketing drivel suggesting that history is now over as <new plastic thing> is The Greatest Evar and made from unicorn parts and LSD; just a bunch of established synth nerds geeking out over a tool with some really nifty capabilities and isnt a blatant ripoff of someones elses old work.
ckwjr
Wow that's the most accurate slamming of, e.g., Roland's TR-8s campaign I've ever read. Well done.
chiasticon
as far as it dropping via all the influencers, etc all at once... I get it. it's how I would announce the synth too. I mean, they're a brand new company with zero products. it's not like they have 100k followers on social media, or that they're announcing it at a trade show. gotta create buzz somehow. and now everyone's talking about it and watching the videos. mission accomplished. you can choose which source you'd like to go to to hear/learn about the thing, based upon your own preferences. given the number of people covering it, should be something for everyone.
tehyar
Now I just need Nick to wrap up his review so I can see how well it PWMs and how long the reverb tails.
CF3
Big thumbs up for making a desktop variant. thumbs up
Flux302
tehyar wrote:
Now I just need Nick to wrap up his review so I can see how well it PWMs and how long the reverb tails.


4 types of pwm (I walked nick through it a bit the other day, I think he is tiring of the joke haha).
I’ll have to double check but I wanna say reverb full length (before going into infinite freeze is 30 seconds .
tehyar
Flux302 wrote:
tehyar wrote:
Now I just need Nick to wrap up his review so I can see how well it PWMs and how long the reverb tails.


4 types of pwm (I walked nick through it a bit the other day, I think he is tiring of the joke haha).
I’ll have to double check but I wanna say reverb full length (before going into infinite freeze is 30 seconds .


Well I never tire of Nick’s reviews. thumbs up hihi
Sinamsis
I don't need another synth but this has my attention. Great price point. Polyaftertouch and ribbon controller on the keyed version. It sounds pretty good to me, but I guess I'm just not a critic. The complex envelopes/LFO count. Tempo synced envelopes. I could keep going. Over all it is a very forward looking synth, but seems to take influence from some legendary synths.
VM
Wonder how this will compare (in terms of sound) to the Malekko/Harvestman BFF that we've been waiting 2 years for...

The idea of a rugged, utilitarian, wavetable desktop synth is appealing, but im not totally convinced of the ASM yet.
Flux302
Sorry I just checked, longest reverb tail before freeze is 90 seconds
deltaphoenix
Nothing to be sorry about and WOW ambient synth from hell.
Flux302
Ok so I’m gonna ask, and please everyone be nice ... what sort of stuff would you like me to show in a video of it. I’m gonna be shooting more videos of it (because I want to not because I’m paid to or anything else). So I figure I’ll ask, what sort of things do you feel like you wanna see from it? I’ll see what I can cobble together over the weekend. I have a video going live probably tonight showing how to create a eveloving kind of pad sound. And in it I show the workflow pretty well.
mamsk
this is a fuckin auto-buy, what an entrance
tobb
Flux302 wrote:

2) you would want cv where? In the back where you can’t get to it ... ok smh


'Can't get to it' lol,jacks at the back and silkscreen on the edge of the panel solves this..

Jacks on top of the panel = inviting dust getting into the machine + guaranteed having soon or later scratches on the top panel...
tehyar
tobb wrote:
Flux302 wrote:

2) you would want cv where? In the back where you can’t get to it ... ok smh


'Can't get to it' lol,jacks at the back and silkscreen on the edge of the panel solves this..

Jacks on top of the panel = inviting dust getting into the machine + guaranteed having soon or later scratches on the top panel...


It keeps the keys and module similar, and the module is rack mountable with recessed connections. rack mounted = can't get to it.
hippo1
Maybe I'm just a little jealous, but...
...If you don't even use the onboard synth, you've finally got a 4-octave standard synth keyboard with polyAT AND a ribbon controller. I'm guessing everyone with a Deckard's Dream will snap 'em up; hope they don't sell out. [Man, I gotta sell a kidney or something!]

I'm never one to advocate spending more than necessary, but - why even consider the module, except for price? After all, it's just another digital synth hybrid if you don't count the obvious 'wow' factor of polyAT and ribbon....
nodog
Flux302 wrote:
what sort of things do you feel like you wanna see from it? I’ll see what I can cobble together over the weekend. I have a video going live probably tonight showing how to create a eveloving kind of pad sound. And in it I show the workflow pretty well.


Well, that's exactly what i want to see so looking forward to checking that one. Thanks for all your vids by the way!
mmp
I would like to hear oscillator morphing and folding, etc driven by the polyAT if you get a chance.

Thanks for all the videos.


Flux302 wrote:
Ok so I’m gonna ask, and please everyone be nice ... what sort of stuff would you like me to show in a video of it. I’m gonna be shooting more videos of it (because I want to not because I’m paid to or anything else). So I figure I’ll ask, what sort of things do you feel like you wanna see from it? I’ll see what I can cobble together over the weekend. I have a video going live probably tonight showing how to create a eveloving kind of pad sound. And in it I show the workflow pretty well.
Sinamsis
mmp wrote:
I would like to hear oscillator morphing and folding, etc driven by the polyAT if you get a chance.

Thanks for all the videos.


Flux302 wrote:
Ok so I’m gonna ask, and please everyone be nice ... what sort of stuff would you like me to show in a video of it. I’m gonna be shooting more videos of it (because I want to not because I’m paid to or anything else). So I figure I’ll ask, what sort of things do you feel like you wanna see from it? I’ll see what I can cobble together over the weekend. I have a video going live probably tonight showing how to create a eveloving kind of pad sound. And in it I show the workflow pretty well.


Yeah, I'd like more info/demonstration on the wavemorphing/wavelist.
wiperactive
Having just got a Microfreak and very much liking it, this Hydrasynth looks and sounds like what I would want of the little one in an expanded form. No surprise then to find that Glen Darcey's design input is common to both.... great to see the polyphonic aftertouch idea carried over from the touch keyboard into this... synthesists have been crying out for this for far too long.

Nice sounding digital engine, clear control panel layout (module select), poly AT and long ribbon controller allied to masses of complex modulation routings at a decent price has me looking at a couple of my 90s romplers that may now comfortably go to help pay for this. Hope the poly AT is mechanically robust for longevity unlike some previous implementations way back.

So far I've been charmed by Paul Schilling's soundcloud patch demos and the closing minutes of Daniel Fisher's Sweetwater sound demo video.

I wonder if the keyboard version and desktop could be polychained for 16 voice polyphony?
NotHerbert
wiperactive wrote:

I wonder if the keyboard version and desktop could be polychained for 16 voice polyphony?

Pretty sure one of those videos said you can to this. I think it was the Sweetwater one, but not sure.
SteeVtheRipper
Flux...As boring as it may be I would love to hear just some classic vintage analog poly tones. That’s a big consideration for me when buying a polysynth. The crazy digital stuff is icing on the cake. But for me, especially since I’m comparing it to the Summit which I was pretty settled on, the ability to sound warm and analog as well as clear and digital is important.
anselmi
SteeVtheRipper wrote:
Flux...As boring as it may be I would love to hear just some classic vintage analog poly tones. That’s a big consideration for me when buying a polysynth. The crazy digital stuff is icing on the cake. But for me, especially since I’m comparing it to the Summit which I was pretty settled on, the ability to sound warm and analog as well as clear and digital is important.


same here, but see: the Summit has real analog VCF/VCA so this is a big part of the warm sound capabilities
the hydrasynth is 100% digital and I think it´s a "proud digital" design, so they just focused in this side of the sounds more than get close to an analog poly
nodog
I think in this case it is really a matter of getting them both. Maybe get a Peak instead of the Summit? Second hand Peak + Hydra keys is just a tiny bit more expensive than the Summit.

Best of both worlds + poly aftertouch/ribbon.
meatcliff
Dcramer wrote:
Really a beauty of a design, love those design nods to Ensoniq love
The synth architecture seems a bit like a Blofeld on steroids eek!


I had the same thoughts - really great nods and influence from Ensoniq, Xpander, PPG, T8. Definitely agree about the Blofeld style - this seems like a fully realized version of those ideas and direction.

I'm very interested in trying this out. Having pads with aftertouch on the desktop version is kind of genius for people like me who aren't necessarily looking for keys, but do occasionally need them.

The Perfect Circuit interview with ASM and their demo video are both great.
mome rath
rowsbywoof wrote:
Is this like a modern-day Fizmo? Sure sounds like they’re talking around not saying Transwave Synth.


my thoughts as well
mmp
This is my path. Have the Peak and adding the Hydra. On order.


nodog wrote:
I think in this case it is really a matter of getting them both. Maybe get a Peak instead of the Summit? Second hand Peak + Hydra keys is just a tiny bit more expensive than the Summit.

Best of both worlds + poly aftertouch/ribbon.
Funky40
the first synth since *along* time that has my attention !
beside the ever lasting GAS for the montage/MODX ( no space)


Sinamsis wrote:

Flux302 wrote:
Ok so I’m gonna ask, and please everyone be nice ... what sort of stuff would you like me to show in a video of it.


Yeah, I'd like more info/demonstration on the wavemorphing/wavelist.

+1, same.
edit: ok, just read how its oganised.....should be demoable, no ?


also like to see a sound that suits vs. different Envelope settings, fast to slow.
a Main point here is *to see* the manual adjustment ...going from setting to seting........percussive / different flavors.......to paddy/ different flavors
( is it fiddly ? fast attacks to setup well ? behave of slow attacks ? etc. )
wiperactive
NotHerbert wrote:
wiperactive wrote:

I wonder if the keyboard version and desktop could be polychained for 16 voice polyphony?

Pretty sure one of those videos said you can to this. I think it was the Sweetwater one, but not sure.


Thanks for the slightly uncertain pointer. Just seen that excellent Sweetwater "Deep Dive" video and Daniel Fisher confirms that this can be done when he turns to the desktop unit.

It's easy to feel "if only" (as always) on certain aspects such as why not a five octave keyboard with such an important attribute like poly AT or a sequencer instead of the arpeggiator (great as it is) etc etc. But I think at this price point ASM have made what appears to be a great synth, prioritising the features needed for a powerful, high modulation count, synth engine.

When DSI released the Prophet 12, at the time, that was the polysynth I was after in terms of modulation complexity, but due to the pricing, which I couldn't meet, I relented and later secured a Pro 2. This Hydrasynth, in those terms, is what I would now consider the more affordable currently comparable engine for that style of deep synthesis with a useful amount of true polyphony... the onboard poly AT, which seems to be well implemented, has me hooked. When digital can sound this good and varied, for me, the analogue/digital arguments largely fade away.
Hooft
It looks like the PWM section is pretty hot.

Pulse Width Mod – Adjust pulse width of ALL waveforms.
PWSqueeze – Compresses the center section of the waveform.
PW-ASM – 8 User adjustable wave squeeze/stretch points.

Would love to hear this stuff from anyone with a unit.

Also, the Threeler filter sounds like a brilliant inclusion here: AFAIK not previously available outside of modular?
Phase47
On the desktop model, can you power it on/off from the front panel since the actual power switch looks to be quite recessed.?
SteeVtheRipper
Now I’m pondering the Peak/Hydra combo. Best of both. My question is will the Peak respond to the Poly AT?
Maybe that setup is redundant.

Also does the Hydrasynth have audio in?

Currently my dilemma is:
Summit and Matriarch
Hydrasynth and Matriarch
Hydrasynth, Peak and Matriarch

Damn those 49 keys. That’s my biggest sticking point on Hydra. Felt that to be so limiting on the DM12, one of the reasons I parted with it.
mmp
Yes, Peak responds very well to Poly Aftertouch. That is the only reason I am not buying the Summit. I have an order in for a Hydrasynth to pair with what will soon be two Peaks.

Hydrasynth can pass audio signals to the mixer by using the CV ins through the Ring Modulator channel.

I will likely swap out the Hydrasynth when the company introduces a 61 or larger PolyAT controller or synth.

SteeVtheRipper wrote:
Now I’m pondering the Peak/Hydra combo. Best of both. My question is will the Peak respond to the Poly AT?
Maybe that setup is redundant.

Also does the Hydrasynth have audio in?

Currently my dilemma is:
Summit and Matriarch
Hydrasynth and Matriarch
Hydrasynth, Peak and Matriarch

Damn those 49 keys. That’s my biggest sticking point on Hydra. Felt that to be so limiting on the DM12, one of the reasons I parted with it.
nuromantix
A couple of questions in case anyone here knows:
I've read that it contains the "threeler" filter but I've also read it's all digital. Is it a digital model of the threeler? Or actual analogue filters? (I guess too good to be true)

and

does anyone know the resolution that the sounds are calculated / output at?
I am hoping to hear PPG/Prophet VS kind of high freqs from this, nothing too band limited wink
SteeVtheRipper
Thanks for that info. That kinda makes me lean towards the Peak/Hydra combo. One of the big draws of the Summit for me is the dual filter. If I’m able to pass the Peak into the dual filters of the Hydra, that makes me a happy boy.

That’s a good point about the possibility of a larger synth coming down the line. I almost bought a Grandmother, then the Matriarch came out and I was very glad I hadn’t pulled the trigger. I don’t want to pull the trigger on the Hydra and then something more to my liking (61 keys, and 16 voices with multitimbrality) comes along a few months later.

mmp wrote:
Yes, Peak responds very well to Poly Aftertouch. That is the only reason I am not buying the Summit. I have an order in for a Hydrasynth to pair with what will soon be two Peaks.

Hydrasynth can pass audio signals to the mixer by using the CV ins through the Ring Modulator channel.

I will likely swap out the Hydrasynth when the company introduces a 61 or larger PolyAT controller or synth.

SteeVtheRipper wrote:
Now I’m pondering the Peak/Hydra combo. Best of both. My question is will the Peak respond to the Poly AT?
Maybe that setup is redundant.

Also does the Hydrasynth have audio in?

Currently my dilemma is:
Summit and Matriarch
Hydrasynth and Matriarch
Hydrasynth, Peak and Matriarch

Damn those 49 keys. That’s my biggest sticking point on Hydra. Felt that to be so limiting on the DM12, one of the reasons I parted with it.
mmp
Nothing analog in this synth.


nuromantix wrote:
A couple of questions in case anyone here knows:
I've read that it contains the "threeler" filter but I've also read it's all digital. Is it a digital model of the threeler? Or actual analogue filters? (I guess too good to be true)
a100user


Panason
"digital is the new analog" "Make digital cool"....

Analog is not "cool"(because it looks like lab gear?)... it just makes more vibrant and alive sounding synths, when it's good, because our ears can pick up a lot of subtlety and nuance... Nobody outside synth nerd circles cares about how your sounds are made when you play or publish music... but a big fat and warm sound makes a difference and people feel it...

Not really hearing anything worthwhile here.. If they had seeked more outside feedback before pushing ahead with production....
Zymos
If only they'd asked that one guy on the Internet before designing this synth.... meh
Panason
I was checking my emails every day!
tehyar
tehyar wrote:
Now I just need Nick to wrap up his review so I can see how well it PWMs and how long the reverb tails.



https://sonicstate.com/news/2019/09/17/sonic-lab-hail-hydrasynth-digit al-8-voice-poly/

And the answer is: yes. A huge yes. This thing is nuts. Ordered.
mamsk
tehyar wrote:
tehyar wrote:
Now I just need Nick to wrap up his review so I can see how well it PWMs and how long the reverb tails.



https://sonicstate.com/news/2019/09/17/sonic-lab-hail-hydrasynth-digit al-8-voice-poly/

And the answer is: yes. A huge yes. This thing is nuts. Ordered.


cannot fuckin wait to get mine
h4ndcrafted
Well I guess Nick’s video answers the question about bass, no problems there.
snufkin
It's quite refreshing to see a synth that doesn't pretend to be a re-issue and has it's own thing going on.

Nothing ground braking but true instrument design.

A great edition to the world of synths for sure.
onthelees
I wasn't interested until Nick's video but now I see this as something potentiallypretty interesting. There are some tricks here that I haven't seen before. Some unique possibilities for modulation and....Poly Aftertouch for under $1300. That alone seems worth it. Still, the sounds I have heard so far are SO digital and "In your face" . I would love to hear something even quazi-analogue out of this synth engine, something subtle, gentle, ambient.
Gribs
ASM somehow got Glen Darcy away from Arturia. I have been impressed with his videos on Arturia stuff. He seems to be very knowledgeable, really into the details or patch programming, a long-time synth nerd. Watching some interviews and whatnot, it looks like the entire Hydrasynth is very well thought-out as both a sound-design tool and a playable and tweakable instrument. I want this thing more than anything else new(ish) out there, including a Moog One. The price was very surprising. I suspect ASM will sell many of them.

I am fighting my long-established policy of not pre-ordering from first batches of a product. I got hit by the Prophet 08 jumpy encoder thing (before the PE edition or upgrades were available) and also by the Korg Kronos first run data wheel looseness issue.
onthebandwagon
WhT sequencer seems like a suitable fit for this?
tvh
The sweetwater vids convinced me of the potential of this synth. The ribbon controller + poly AT = finally see what all the CS80 hub-bub is about hihi
UltraViolet
The price of the keyboard model is really not a bad price for just the keyboard and ribbon controller when compared to the alternatives.

Given the current market, it would seem that an analog or partially analog version would have been more welcomed. However, both digital and analog have the potential to sound both sterile and alive. You really need to go to extremes to get sterile from analog since it tends to have natural variations (also not sure why anyone would want to do this). On the other hand, you really need to go to extremes to make digital sound alive since it is natural for it to be too perfect and sterile.
tobb
Zymos wrote:
If only they'd asked that one guy on the Internet before designing this synth.... meh


There is a way to pimp it a bit,using black Befaco banananuts to replace those ugly one on the top panel and replacing all the knobs wink
Nelson Baboon
onthebandwagon wrote:
WhT sequencer seems like a suitable fit for this?


i think that there is more than one, but i personally am looking forward to using the pyramid with it.
Angroc
Speaking of sequencing. Any word out on MIDI spec? Really curious to see how much will be accessible with CC, or atleast NRPN.
Nelson Baboon
Angroc wrote:
Speaking of sequencing. Any word out on MIDI spec? Really curious to see how much will be accessible with CC, or atleast NRPN.


good question....i can't even find their site. i had this vague recollection that the manual is available, but I guess not.
CalvaryBand
Nelson Baboon wrote:
Angroc wrote:
Speaking of sequencing. Any word out on MIDI spec? Really curious to see how much will be accessible with CC, or atleast NRPN.


good question....i can't even find their site. i had this vague recollection that the manual is available, but I guess not.


You can go into the mod matrix page and assign any parameter to any incoming MIDI CC.
Nelson Baboon
ah - not sure why this didn't pop up in my google searches, but i found it on gearslutz. also not sure if it's posted earlier in this thread, but it can't hurt, I guess....

http://www.ashunsoundmachines.com/
estin
Sounds like an interesting synth, however I don't understand how 8 voices in a digital synth has become acceptable in 2019. It likely sounds lovely and has interesting functionality, but digital synths had 10 voices 20 + years ago so I feel it reasonable to expect both sound and polyphony to improve over that time.
tvh
Perhaps they are just going for quality over quantity (8 voice limit) for hydrasynth because it sounds incredible.

I had an SH-01 at one point, that had 64-note polyphony and I thought it sounded terrible. I can't believe they are still selling them for over $600 new. hihi
digitalganesha
estin wrote:
Sounds like an interesting synth, however I don't understand how 8 voices in a digital synth has become acceptable in 2019.


A-fucking-MEN. I feel the same way. I've been despising the last few years of digital/"analog" hybrids because of the polyphony limitation of having an analog filter on a digital synthesizer. I don't want a VCF on a digital synth... I want fucking polyphony and multitimbral capability so I can enjoy the possibilities that digital synths offer by making huge layered performances. It's stupid to half-ass a digital synth featuring all the features the Hydrasynth does.
digitalganesha
tvh wrote:
Perhaps they are just going for quality over quantity (8 voice limit) for hydrasynth because it sounds incredible.


I like the sound of it, and want it - but the sound is not groundbreaking, and certainly not enough of an excuse to limit the polyphony/multitimbral capabilities. In my opinion it doesn't sound anywhere as good as the Novation Nova/Supernovas from 20 years ago and they had polyphony in numbers like 24, 32, 64. seriously, i just don't get it
Panason
The Argon8 probably sounds better but maybe less complex.
Nelson Baboon
i always have to laugh at the gearslutz type negative comments from people who haven't used an instrument but trash it before it has been released.

And I'm sure that one day, polyphony won't be a limitation, however i don't know of any hardware digital synth that isn't limited - i guess with software synths, the limitation can come from the computer hardware/os, but i don't think that there are hardware synths that allow you to upgrade their cpu, so the limit the polyphony to prevent people from running into issues (which would of course be complained about bitterly).

Isn't it possible that the processing on this synth uses more computing power than earlier digital synths? And isn't it also possible that adding more computing power would have added to the cost? Obviously there is an objective to keep this below 'high end' pricing.

i mean, people write about the polyphony as if they are maliciously limiting it, laughing diabolically behind the scenes about people buying the synth and then running out of voices.....

I personally am fine with 8, given what I've seen of the synth, and what to me sounds like a very malleable sound and modulation....one of course never really knows until one actually works with an instrument.
Blingley
Are there demos about with anyone playing this in a more keyboardist kind of way? A lot of the demos seem to be someone just putting sequencer on and holding a few keys. I'm quite interested in how easy it is to create responsive patches and how playable it is. Talking about the keyed version, of course. The poly aftertouch and ribbon sound promising for performance use in particular.
estin
I certainly wasn't insinuating they were limiting polyphony in a malicious way or anything like that. Maybe its true more polyphony would need more processor power but it seems like we are at a point where processor power has A: never been cheaper, and B: no longer seems to be the real determining factor of a digital products potential. 8 voices is a good amount to play with, but the beauty of deep digital synths for me would be stacking patches in which 8 becomes 4 and not super useful for long attack and release times sound design. 90's VA synths were cutting edge at the time and still managed interesting architecture and unique sounds with the same or even more voices. (original nord lead and MS2000 aside) I still think its reasonable for sound and polyphony to have impoved in 20+ years along with price going down. Having said all that, this looks like a great synth and its a real treat to be blessed with so many gear options these days.
UltraViolet
There is still a trade off between number of voices + sound quality versus processing power on even modern CPU's. A stand alone instrument probably can't have a core i9 or Ryzen 9 so it will be limited more than a PC based software synth. The only way to get away from the CPU processing limit it to use GPUs. Of course that has its own new set of issues.

I don't think ASM arbitrarily limited it to 8 voices. That was probably the most they could have and still have high quality sound.
seychmar
Manual is available on the website.
digitalganesha
Nelson Baboon wrote:
i always have to laugh at the gearslutz type negative comments from people who haven't used an instrument but trash it before it has been released.


Not sure if anything was pointed my way, but in no way am I putting the Hydra down, in fact I'm looking forward to it. And I completely agree with you about trashing and instrument before physically using it in real life. However, one does not need to do so to to know what won't be possible based upon the polyphony.

Nelson Baboon wrote:
i mean, people write about the polyphony as if they are maliciously limiting it, laughing diabolically behind the scenes about people buying the synth and then running out of voices.....


I am willing to bet that they are not being malicious and laughing diabolically (although you never know what new fetish is out there twisted ) but they are intentionally limiting polyphony on purpose for one reason: cost. Yes, I am that one person complaining that the synth is not more expensive. And I'm sure a few months down the road after buying the Hydrasynth - they possibly will announce a 'big brother' to it and people like me will be all about it while the rest complain it's too expensive; but the end result will give me polyphony for layers and ASM another purchase from people like me. One thing is certain - I will NOT be utilizing the polyphonic aftertouch to play anything from Blade Runner.
onthebandwagon
Seems like some who have decided to buy an Argon8 feel the need to also talk smack about Hydra.
Panason
I'm sure Hydra doesn't mind a bit of smack talk, being a machine.
I'm not fond of ASM's aggressive marketing and the "Hail Hydra" , "digital is the new analog" blah. And so far I'm not hearing anything special. The UI is certainly very nice.
tvh
digitalganesha wrote:
One thing is certain - I will NOT be utilizing the polyphonic aftertouch to play anything from Blade Runner.


They actually already covered that on their soundcloud lol. https://soundcloud.com/ashunsoundmachines/bladetitles-paulschilling-de mo
onthebandwagon
Panason wrote:
I'm sure Hydra doesn't mind a bit of smack talk, being a machine.
I'm not fond of ASM's aggressive marketing and the "Hail Hydra" , "digital is the new analog" blah. And so far I'm not hearing anything special. The UI is certainly very nice.


Yes well point taken—the whole concept of pre-ordering and making people speculate about the amount of product that will be available after seems to make hasty decision making on the consumer’s end.

What are your feelings on the Argon8?
Panason
Well the Argon8 sounds more solid/fat/warm to me judging by the SonicState demo. There are impressive amounts of low end too. But I'm not sure it can do all the wavetable morphing and trickery that the Hydra does... and even if it does it will probably be more menu divey.
The hands-on implementation on the Hydra looks like tons of fun and something that I would actually do. I rarely get into trying complex modulations in synths if it involves paging around a screen to get to the parameters and adjust with a single data encoder... Even on softsynths I refuse to go beyond the front panel even if there are more dials to wiggle in the second page.
onthebandwagon
Sounds you have more of an issue with their marketing which I can understand. I have one on pre-order but am thinking it might be best to wait and see how others like it—I have a hard time sitting through most of the reviewers videos, which I agree are somewhat short on really letting you hear the thing. I do like that it has CV among a lot of other things.
mmp
The mod matrix and poly-aftertouch sold me. But, I really like to have a lot of realtime control over timbre when I perform with a synth. Some people are happy with a switch to trigger a sample, or an analog synth without even velocity control. Luckily there are many different available tools for different tastes & jobs. I placed an order based on the performance attributes and not so much the raw sound as heard in demos. Though, I do believe I will have success in programming this instrument to my personal sonic standards.
onthebandwagon
mmp wrote:
The mod matrix and poly-aftertouch sold me. But, I really like to have a lot of realtime control over timbre when I perform with a synth. Some people are happy with a switch to trigger a sample, or an analog synth without even velocity control. Luckily there are many different available tools for different tastes & jobs. I placed an order based on the performance attributes and not so much the raw sound as heard in demos. Though, I do believe I will have success in programming this instrument to my personal sonic standards.


Is that to assume you pre-ordered one? The person I spoke to at Sweetwater seemed to vaguely imply that they haven’t fulfilled their first round of pre-orders.
mmp
Yes. Pre-ordered.
UltraViolet
Panason wrote:
I'm not fond of ASM's aggressive marketing and the "Hail Hydra" , "digital is the new analog" blah.


Did they actually say that? I haven't watched all the videos and couldn't find it with a search. It is wrong to be saying that. At this point analog is a classic and really can't be replaced by digital. Digital can do things that analog can't and one day may be overall better, but it will never be a real replacement for analog as in "the new analog".
Panason
It was quoted from one of the ASM guys showing the synth in a trade show, in one of the YT vids in this thread I think. Not a big deal and it's OK to generate some hype but I prefer Modal's more low key and down to earth approach (so far).. and their price.
dubnspace
UltraViolet wrote:
Panason wrote:
I'm not fond of ASM's aggressive marketing and the "Hail Hydra" , "digital is the new analog" blah.


Did they actually say that? I haven't watched all the videos and couldn't find it with a search. It is wrong to be saying that. At this point analog is a classic and really can't be replaced by digital. Digital can do things that analog can't and one day may be overall better, but it will never be a real replacement for analog as in "the new analog".


its blasted across the front page of their website:
http://www.ashunsoundmachines.com/
UltraViolet
You're right! Didn't stay on their home page long enough before to see it.
Sinamsis
Panason wrote:
It was quoted from one of the ASM guys showing the synth in a trade show, in one of the YT vids in this thread I think. Not a big deal and it's OK to generate some hype but I prefer Modal's more low key and down to earth approach (so far).. and their price.


Ha I guess that's to distract from the 002/008 which are still waiting on promised features. Don't get me wrong, I love mine. But Modal have tried the high end market and seem to have developed a very opposite tact now, which sucks for those of us who bought in early on. Ha, I still may snag an 008 again some day. I still own an 002 and I really love the sound. I do happen to really like the analog filters though, particularly with the variable slope.
vegeta897
UltraViolet wrote:
It is wrong to be saying that. At this point analog is a classic and really can't be replaced by digital. Digital can do things that analog can't and one day may be overall better, but it will never be a real replacement for analog as in "the new analog".

In an interview that I can't find right now, I believe Glen points out that the slogan is very much a tongue in cheek response to the petty analog-vs-digital wars that have been happening for the last 10+ years.

It is only the cynical synth enthusiast that would take such a slogan seriously, thinking that someone with years of synth creation experience would honestly say that digital could replace analog or vice versa. wink
UltraViolet
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
It is wrong to be saying that. At this point analog is a classic and really can't be replaced by digital. Digital can do things that analog can't and one day may be overall better, but it will never be a real replacement for analog as in "the new analog".

In an interview that I can't find right now, I believe Glen points out that the slogan is very much a tongue in cheek response to the petty analog-vs-digital wars that have been happening for the last 10+ years.

It is only the cynical synth enthusiast that would take such a slogan seriously, thinking that someone with years of synth creation experience would honestly say that digital could replace analog or vice versa. wink

Serious or not, it shouldn't be their marketing slogan plastered across the home page of their website.
tehyar
Seriously?

Do you see “Orange is the New Black” on Netflix and rail against it: orange can’t be black! They’re nowhere near each other in the color spectrum! One isn’t even a color!1
Panason
Apples and oranges, innit.

I can dig that it's tongue in cheek. That often gets lost in the realm of text. I should know. meh

Anyway I wonder if they can add a step sequencer for pitches and modulations per step.... The desktop has 24 pads...it would make it a lot more appealing. 16 pads for the x0x sequencing of 8 bar long patterns, with the remaining 8 pads to select which bar you're working on. Pattern saved with the patch.
DiscoDevil
This is one of the few pieces I have GAS for these days but there seems to be quite a bit of sonic overlap with the Modor NF-1 which I am 100% in bed with already. Hmmmm
flashheart
UltraViolet wrote:
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
It is wrong to be saying that. At this point analog is a classic and really can't be replaced by digital. Digital can do things that analog can't and one day may be overall better, but it will never be a real replacement for analog as in "the new analog".

In an interview that I can't find right now, I believe Glen points out that the slogan is very much a tongue in cheek response to the petty analog-vs-digital wars that have been happening for the last 10+ years.

It is only the cynical synth enthusiast that would take such a slogan seriously, thinking that someone with years of synth creation experience would honestly say that digital could replace analog or vice versa. wink

Serious or not, it shouldn't be their marketing slogan plastered across the home page of their website.

Why ever not seriously, i just don't get it d'oh!
UltraViolet
flashheart wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
It is wrong to be saying that. At this point analog is a classic and really can't be replaced by digital. Digital can do things that analog can't and one day may be overall better, but it will never be a real replacement for analog as in "the new analog".

In an interview that I can't find right now, I believe Glen points out that the slogan is very much a tongue in cheek response to the petty analog-vs-digital wars that have been happening for the last 10+ years.

It is only the cynical synth enthusiast that would take such a slogan seriously, thinking that someone with years of synth creation experience would honestly say that digital could replace analog or vice versa. wink

Serious or not, it shouldn't be their marketing slogan plastered across the home page of their website.

Why ever not seriously, i just don't get it d'oh!


There are many people with a strong bias against digital (not always without good reason). A slogan like that will tend to push them farther away. You can say something jokingly and be fine, but if you put it in print then the joking context is lost and it will generally be taken as being said seriously by whoever reads it.
vegeta897
UltraViolet wrote:
There are many people with a strong bias against digital (not always without good reason). A slogan like that will tend to push them farther away. You can say something jokingly and be fine, but if you put it in print then the joking context is lost and it will generally be taken as being said seriously by whoever reads it.

You're right, I'm not sure how ASM will survive this marketing blunder.
a100user
Personally I don't see the issue.

Corporate advertising and slogans are often poorly thought out and make no sense in the real world and someone, somewhere will take offense.

The crux of the matter is the product strong enough to survive such marketing blunders?

Probably or at least I hope so
mmp
Yeah, the marketing blunder of getting us all to talk about it for pages of social media.
onthebandwagon
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
There are many people with a strong bias against digital (not always without good reason). A slogan like that will tend to push them farther away. You can say something jokingly and be fine, but if you put it in print then the joking context is lost and it will generally be taken as being said seriously by whoever reads it.

You're right, I'm not sure how ASM will survive this marketing blunder.


Maybe they should immediately release an arturia style video with slowed break dancers and such.
UltraViolet
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
There are many people with a strong bias against digital (not always without good reason). A slogan like that will tend to push them farther away. You can say something jokingly and be fine, but if you put it in print then the joking context is lost and it will generally be taken as being said seriously by whoever reads it.

You're right, I'm not sure how ASM will survive this marketing blunder.


I think they will do quite well with the Hydrasynth. It is a good product that has been well received. The chances of later selling a relatively low cost keyboard midi controller with polyphonic after touch (which they could easily do with Hydrasynth parts) may be another story. Most of that market is analog folks.
vegeta897
UltraViolet wrote:
I think they will do quite well with the Hydrasynth. It is a good product that has been well received. The chances of later selling a relatively low cost keyboard midi controller with polyphonic after touch (which they could easily do with Hydrasynth parts) may be another story. Most of that market is analog folks.

So you think this slogan may harm the potential sales of a controller, which has neither a digital nor analog sound engine in it, and will likely be the only (or most affordable) poly AT controller on the market? I'm just trying to imagine the kind of person that would decide not to purchase based on that rationale.
UltraViolet
vegeta897 wrote:
UltraViolet wrote:
I think they will do quite well with the Hydrasynth. It is a good product that has been well received. The chances of later selling a relatively low cost keyboard midi controller with polyphonic after touch (which they could easily do with Hydrasynth parts) may be another story. Most of that market is analog folks.

So you think this slogan may harm the potential sales of a controller, which has neither a digital nor analog sound engine in it, and will likely be the only (or most affordable) poly AT controller on the market? I'm just trying to imagine the kind of person that would decide not to purchase based on that rationale.


Most affordable poly AT controller is the Roli Seaboard Block at under $300. The Seaboard Rise 49 just dropped under $1k. The Seaboard is actually better than just poly AT since it also has vibrato control and another parameter for forward/backward on keys, but it is a bit different for someone used to standard keyboard keys. So it wouldn't be the only or most affordable. Also TouchKeys is still out there as well.
vegeta897
UltraViolet wrote:
Most affordable poly AT controller is the Roli Seaboard Block at under $300. The Seaboard Rise 49 just dropped under $1k. The Seaboard is actually better than just poly AT since it also has vibrato control and another parameter for forward/backward on keys, but it is a bit different for someone used to standard keyboard keys. So it wouldn't be the only or most affordable. Also TouchKeys is still out there as well.

You're moving goalposts my dude, and missing my point. You called it low cost, and it would be. This makes it attractive to anyone looking for a poly AT keyboard, specifically one that is actually a traditional keyboard and not whatever the Roli boards are. I'm saying a slogan they used for their synth is entirely irrelevant to someone buying a product to which the slogan doesn't even apply.
UltraViolet
vegeta897 wrote:
You're moving goalposts my dude, and missing my point. You called it low cost, and it would be. This makes it attractive to anyone looking for a poly AT keyboard, specifically one that is actually a traditional keyboard and not whatever the Roli boards are. I'm saying a slogan they used for their synth is entirely irrelevant to someone buying a product to which the slogan doesn't even apply.


The whole poly AT keyboard thing is anyone's guess. TouchKeys was amazing, but it seems to have failed. It could have been a price thing. It could be that there are a few people that really want poly AT keyboards, but there aren't enough of them to be a big enough market. It could be a deadlock situation where most people don't want to buy a poly AT keyboard unless most popular synths have full support for them while synth makers don't want to spend their limited resources to provide full support for poly AT keyboards until there are a lot of them out in the field. Or it could be that most people don't want poly AT because it is harder to learn to play well. Or all of the above, or none of the above. Its a good mystery. Its great that the Hydrasynth has poly AT. It will put a lot of poly AT keyboards out in the field if that was a part of the problem.

As far as the slogan goes, only time will tell. The Hydrasynth and Argon 8 are big winners at the moment after their success at Knobcon and in the press, but in a year or two there will be something new in the spotlight.
Sinamsis
UltraViolet wrote:
vegeta897 wrote:
You're moving goalposts my dude, and missing my point. You called it low cost, and it would be. This makes it attractive to anyone looking for a poly AT keyboard, specifically one that is actually a traditional keyboard and not whatever the Roli boards are. I'm saying a slogan they used for their synth is entirely irrelevant to someone buying a product to which the slogan doesn't even apply.


The whole poly AT keyboard thing is anyone's guess. TouchKeys was amazing, but it seems to have failed. It could have been a price thing. It could be that there are a few people that really want poly AT keyboards, but there aren't enough of them to be a big enough market. It could be a deadlock situation where most people don't want to buy a poly AT keyboard unless most popular synths have full support for them while synth makers don't want to spend their limited resources to provide full support for poly AT keyboards until there are a lot of them out in the field. Or it could be that most people don't want poly AT because it is harder to learn to play well. Or all of the above, or none of the above. Its a good mystery. Its great that the Hydrasynth has poly AT. It will put a lot of poly AT keyboards out in the field if that was a part of the problem.

As far as the slogan goes, only time will tell. The Hydrasynth and Argon 8 are big winners at the moment after their success at Knobcon and in the press, but in a year or two there will be something new in the spotlight.


Couple things.... big difference between MPE and polyphonic aftertouch. I think the big limit here is getting full on MPE support, and I really mean that from a DAW standpoint. Polyphonic AT support doesn't seem all that rare. Newer DSI synths almost universally support it I believe. I believe the One will eventually get full on MPE support. Really any multitimbral synth can be used with MPE. And really in terms of modern devices it seems most are geared towards full on MPE rather than polyphonic AT.
Panason
I tried the Roli Rise in a shop... horrendous feel (I'm not even a keyboard player) and will surely not be in good shape 5 years down the line. Silicone has no place in anything other than drum pads- the kind that you hit with sticks. I don't see how anyone who has ever laid their hands on a piano would want to play this thing.

I think Poly AT wil be a really inspiring thing to have and can make keyboards more attractive to play- if it's done right. The normal aftertouch on the entry level keyboards i have tried has always been pretty shite- too stiff and/or not enough travel.
Sinamsis
Panason wrote:
I tried the Roli Rise in a shop... horrendous feel (I'm not even a keyboard player) and will surely not be in good shape 5 years down the line. Silicone has no place in anything other than drum pads- the kind that you hit with sticks. I don't see how anyone who has ever laid their hands on a piano would want to play this thing.

I think Poly AT wil be a really inspiring thing to have and can make keyboards more attractive to play- if it's done right. The normal aftertouch on the entry level keyboards i have tried has always been pretty shite- too stiff and/or not enough travel.


We're veering off topic a bit here, but it is somewhat pertinent as it really does help distinguish the merits of polyphonic aftertouch and those of MPE. I think if you want a traditional keyboard experience, the MPE controllers aren't going to do it. But the MPE controllers offer an experience very different from a traditional keyboard and this includes the Rise. It really isn't about velocity, it's all about gentle pressure. Being able to slide between notes is cool too. It's just a very different way to interact with an instrument, even though it's laid out like a traditional keyboard. XY pad and 3 sliders are very expressive too. I do agree about the silicone. I had a Rise49 for a while and sold it because I was concerned about the longevity, and I didn't like how it bunched with slides and glides. I may get one again at some point though, because there really is nothing like it, and having tried other options, I haven't really been satisfied.

Polyphonic aftertouch interests me. In general, I don't use aftertouch often on keyboards. I usually use velocity for expression, which to me is more traditional. I also find that I have trouble really controlling aftertouch on my keyboards and values go from zero to 60 rather quickly. Regardless, it is not a common feature, and to have it on a keybed of a very reasonably priced synthesizer is exciting. I do wish it was 61 keys though!
wiperactive
Sinamsis wrote:

.... Polyphonic aftertouch interests me. In general, I don't use aftertouch often on keyboards. I usually use velocity for expression, which to me is more traditional. I also find that I have trouble really controlling aftertouch on my keyboards and values go from zero to 60 rather quickly. Regardless, it is not a common feature, and to have it on a keybed of a very reasonably priced synthesizer is exciting. I do wish it was 61 keys though!


I'm really hoping that the Poly AT on this impressive synthesiser lives up to the claims of ASM, not only in terms of feel, but mechanical longevity. Yes, I agree, 61 keys would have been better as would double the polyphony but I'm prepared to eat that if it keeps the pricing amenable.

As you say, aftertouch varies so much from one synth to another... oddly the best 'goldilocks' zone response I've ever experienced was when I replaced the trashed AT strip on a second-hand Roland alpha Juno 2 with one from another manufacturer... I've hung on to that synth as a controller well past the synth engine limitations became an issue solely because of the great keyboard feel in all respects. A nice new - smooth response - AT strip and a solid, but fast, feel under the fingers.

Poly AT is important to me (and I suspect many others) for two main reasons:

I already have heaps of viable MIDI synths (keyboard and rack) that predate MPE, but respond to Poly AT.

Although I'm not a keyboard centred synthesist - no Hancock, Wakeman or Zawinul - Poly AT conventionally requires some 'skilling-up' for the more accomplished, faster moving, keyboardist but it can still be of great expressive benefit for the less dexterous in areas of slower chordal work such as pads and the like.
UltraViolet
We seem to be going off topic with the Poly AT and MPE discussion. Since I am at least partially responsible for this, I started a new thread to continue the discussion and let this thread get back on topic. Lots of great thoughts so far, please continue here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3131805#3131805

Thanks.
tthogs
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.
Nelson Baboon
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.


really? You have no preference at all about one synth sounding better than another, and view any differences as totally due to programming ability? And all synths are equally easy to program, no matter how much you might dislike the sound, or the user interface? They are all the same?

and only people who have a career in music are capable of making judgements on a synth?

We start out with some agreement on how some people trash an instrument based on internet demos, but the rest of your post? wow.
Homepage Englisch
I'm just going through the manual.

Note on CV inputs and outputs:

Pitch CV range: Octave 0-10V, -/+5V, Hz 0-10V. Reference note for Hz/oct could be set from C-1 to G9.
Pitch CV offset from -99 to +99 cents.
Source could be either keyboard or ribbon.

Gate CV could be set to 3V, 5V, 10V. V-trig or S-trig.

CV Clock: 3V, 5V, 10V. Clock division off, 1/2, 2, 4. Clock rate 1 PPS, 2 PPQ, 24 PPQ, 48 PPQ. Offset +- 100 ms.

There are two CV modulation inputs and outputs, each could be set individually to +/- 5V, 0-10V, 0-5V, 0-1V with individual offsets +-3V.

There's no sequencer in traditional sense, but each of 5 LFOs could be in a "step mode" which is a steppy waveform like a 8-step seqencer, where each step could be edited manually.

Arpeggiator have options for ratcheting and ratcheting probability, and it all sends CV gates.

There's macros which could assign quite a number of modulation destinations. Some of the sources are both CV Inputs and MIDI CC's; destinations could also be MIDI CC's and CV outputs. There's a brief chapter on how CV could be inverted, attenuated or boosted.

And then you can use a mod matrix and some source like LFO and set it to have a MACRO as a DESTINATION.

I've seen CV keyboards with much less options for much more money.

I'm in.
Panason
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.



I suggest a professionals-only forum, with credentials required to join.

Quote:

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad.

Oh boy. This must be the hardware synth to end all hardware synths.


Quote:


Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop.


Anything else you'd like?
onthebandwagon
edit: wrong thread very frustrating
tthogs
Nelson Baboon wrote:
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.


really? You have no preference at all about one synth sounding better than another, and view any differences as totally due to programming ability? And all synths are equally easy to program, no matter how much you might dislike the sound, or the user interface? They are all the same?

and only people who have a career in music are capable of making judgements on a synth?

We start out with some agreement on how some people trash an instrument based on internet demos, but the rest of your post? wow.


Of course certain synths sound better than others. However in this synths specific case, the capabilities are so vast that judgements for example that it sounds "thin" or "too this or too that" are just nonsense. Like some guy wrote that the new modal synth "sounds better" and I just can't get down with that as both instruments, to a meaningful degree are practically and sonically arbitrary and how you use them and the parameters you set will have so much more to do with the sound at the end then folks are willing to admit here.

When did I say people who don't have music careers can't judge instruments? I'm just saying that I see it as clearly apparent when people trash talk an instrument that for me would be wildly convenient and viable for my workflow. The layout is amazing and intuitive. No one has even brought up the well thought out randomize feature. Incredible. Maybe I'm just a fanboy.
Nelson Baboon
tthogs wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
tthogs wrote:
It is instantly apparent who on this thread is actively making / performing music and creating a viable flourishing career out of it vs people who simply complain about everything instead of go through the years and years of development > creative design > manufacturing > testing > marketing > delivery that ASM and other companies do. Sit down please.

Saying this synth sounds good or bad is as ridiculous as saying Serum or Omnishpere sounds good or bad. It can sound both good or bad depending on your relative skill of synthesis / programming. Same with the new Modal synth. In a world where electronic / synthesis music that people actually listen to is largely dominated by digital plugins, this is obviously and demonstrably a sophisticated and capable instrument limited only by your creativity. Any judgement based on its sound is the skill of the programmer not the instrument. With a synthesizer this powerful, you can create one hell of a shitty sound or one hell of an amazing sound. Be grateful for the options. Also dude with the post complaining the cv i/o on the top, just stop. Anyone who is actually doing sound design work doesn't have time for things not to be convenient and ergonomic. I wish all synth designers put their cv connectivity on the top. Makes my life, and any sane working musician's life easier.


really? You have no preference at all about one synth sounding better than another, and view any differences as totally due to programming ability? And all synths are equally easy to program, no matter how much you might dislike the sound, or the user interface? They are all the same?

and only people who have a career in music are capable of making judgements on a synth?

We start out with some agreement on how some people trash an instrument based on internet demos, but the rest of your post? wow.


Of course certain synths sound better than others. However in this synths specific case, the capabilities are so vast that judgements for example that it sounds "thin" or "too this or too that" are just nonsense. Like some guy wrote that the new modal synth "sounds better" and I just can't get down with that as both instruments, to a meaningful degree are practically and sonically arbitrary and how you use them and the parameters you set will have so much more to do with the sound at the end then folks are willing to admit here.

When did I say people who don't have music careers can't judge instruments? I'm just saying that I see it as clearly apparent when people trash talk an instrument that for me would be wildly convenient and viable for my workflow. The layout is amazing and intuitive. No one has even brought up the well thought out randomize feature. Incredible. Maybe I'm just a fanboy.


i don't feel like devolving into an argument, but your comments here are more measured than in your previous post. And sure - you explicitly called out people who are not making a "flourishing career" as not qualified to make judgements here.

obviously we weren't arguing about whether the hydrasynth looks like a great instrument. Mine is ordered.
iSapien1956672
I played the synth at Knobcon, I was happy with the editing, user interface, sounds, sound manipulation, ease of use, knob placement, port placement.

Really thought out synth.
Played some roland, yamaha, sequentials, and I was pretty much meh with them all.

To me, it's a very inspiring synth with it's own personality.
I also thought the Matriarch was very inspiring, so what do I know?

So many complaints from a marketing ploy.

you either like the synth or you don't.
move on to a synth you do like.
why bash constantly?
sad banana seriously, i just don't get it
tehyar
Bad, good, worst, best, thin, fat, whatever - you’re losing sight of the fact that these are purely subjective statements. This means they are 100% true from the perspective of the one stating them, and meaningless to you. If you can’t accept this then you’re likely going to have a hard time dealing with official statements like “best tacos north of the border”. Judging a taco has nothing to do with the skill of the eater.

Saying that the reason someone doesn’t develop the same opinion as you is due to their own limitations or foolishness is just a statement of arrogance. Pretentious smacktalkin.
Sinamsis
iSapien1956672
Did you play the desktop module or the keyed version?

I really think I will get one of these at some point, probably pending user reviews, but I wanted to know if one felt significantly easier to program? And if you felt that the pads added to the functionality.

The keyed version certainly caught my attention, but 49 keys made me lose interest to some degree. I have limited space so I'd probably have to get rid of some keyed instrument if I bring in another keyed instrument in. Plus the desktop version I think I could fit in with relative ease right in front of my system. I'm not a huge fan of small pads, but I think it is an interesting way to interface with an intstrument. Also, how is the aftertouch on the pads, if you tried them?
UltraViolet
tehyar wrote:
Saying that the reason someone doesn’t develop the same opinion as you is due to their own limitations or foolishness is just a statement of arrogance. Pretentious smacktalkin.


There is actually some validity to parts of what tthogs is saying. But, once you insult people by saying that aren't qualified to judge what is good, it doesn't really matter anymore.
iSapien1956672
Sinamsis wrote:
iSapien1956672
Did you play the desktop module or the keyed version?

I really think I will get one of these at some point, probably pending user reviews, but I wanted to know if one felt significantly easier to program? And if you felt that the pads added to the functionality.

The keyed version certainly caught my attention, but 49 keys made me lose interest to some degree. I have limited space so I'd probably have to get rid of some keyed instrument if I bring in another keyed instrument in. Plus the desktop version I think I could fit in with relative ease right in front of my system. I'm not a huge fan of small pads, but I think it is an interesting way to interface with an instrument. Also, how is the aftertouch on the pads, if you tried them?


I played the keyed version, I'm not a huge piano octave player so 49-61 work for me for waht I do.

I'm also not a Digital/Analog purist "snob" so I thought the digital was really good and its analog sound were pleasant (to my liking)

It was at knobcon, and one of the hype synths of the show so there were a lot of people waiting to get a taste, didn't have a ton of time to dive deep, but from what I was able to get into I was happy with what a company I had never heard of came out with straight outta the gate.

If I didn't have a kid in Daycare and Mortgage I would definitley buy this synth in the keyed version.
UltraViolet
iSapien1956672 wrote:
It was at knobcon, and one of the hype synths of the show so there were a lot of people waiting to get a taste, didn't have a ton of time to dive deep, but from what I was able to get into I was happy with what a company I had never heard of came out with straight outta the gate.


That seemed to be a problem for the really popular synths at Knobcon. Even with 2 days of exhibit time, with 1000 attendees there isn't enough time for people to really dive deep. Some manufacturers did personalized demos to small groups to help with this, but it is still too many people and too little time. To be fair they had to keep people moving so that others could a least get a taste. ASM's booth was always busy the few times that I was able to check.

Did anyone get a good chance to evaluate the poly AT on the keyboard?
Dstepatl
https://youtu.be/_bmalvoCzmI

Sounds quite fat and “warm” to me.
Xmit
so : spent quite a bit of time ( until it got a bit embarrassing & I remembered it's not cool to bogart a synth at a show ) on the Hydrasynth at Synthfest at Sheffield on Saturday.

I'll cut to the chase : Apart from the £7k Moog One & the £3.5k Waldorf Quantum it was the best new (i.e. not vintage or a re-issue, like the Moog Model 10 / 15 ) synth there. Period. In fact I've got to say it gives the Quantum a good run for its money - obviously there are a tonne of things in the Waldorf that I didn't even look at,that I know the Hydrasynth doesnt have, but on the face of it the Quantum is not '3 times' ( factoring cost ) the synth the Hydrasynth is.

Sounds terrific - both for ersatz analogue & pure digital. The build quality & feel is just stellar for this sort of money : it looks & feels like a really expensive instrument in the flesh. But the thing that really stuck with me is the interface - brilliant bit of design. So intuitive. even though it's not knob per function I actually found it quicker & easier to whip up patches than on say the Peak, which I'd also never used before.

It's a brilliant user interface that just invites you to create patches.

The arpeggiator is genius & the FX are brilliant. It plays like a dream too - so much nuanced control at your fingertips.

It was an inspiring joy to play - & as a rule I don't really like digital synths that much - this is probably the best 100% digital synth I've played since the D-50...apart from I could actually program the ASM machine hihi

I don't need one right now...but unless something else comes along in the next 12 months or so I can't imagine I won't pick one up eventually.
I think they may have made a classic.
digitalganesha
Xmit wrote:
It was an inspiring joy to play - & as a rule I don't really like digital synths that much - this is probably the best 100% digital synth I've played since the D-50.


It's like you aimed that one right at my soul. Sold. SlayerBadger!
Although it's important to remember - the D-50 makes you bleed in order to get it to shine. Even when you have editors, yet refuse to use them and do it all from the panel. Which I am very guilty of. ha
estin
Not sure if it was covered, but is this the same ASM that was involved with the Novation Supernova synth line?
vegeta897
estin wrote:
Not sure if it was covered, but is this the same ASM that was involved with the Novation Supernova synth line?


ASM is a new synth company, Ashun Sound Machines, and this is their first product under that name.

Novation's use of "ASM" was just an initialism for their "Analog Sound Modeling" technology.
estin
^ thank you for clearing that up.
Berlin2016
Shakespeare
Just pre-ordered the desktop version... can't wait. Seems like a deep, lovely machine... and the fact that it interfaces with euro is a nice little bonus.
onthebandwagon
I spoke with someone at Sweetwater and the delivery date is now looking more like sometime in December.
mmp
Well, at least mine will be paid for by then.
onthebandwagon
mmp wrote:
Well, at least mine will be paid for by then.


I was actually relieved as I need a couple more weeks to get the money togeather.
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