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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Pathetic state of the 5U market
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next [all]
Author Pathetic state of the 5U market
stephenmendes
Hello Guys,

Honestly I hope somebody can cheer me up.

I should have gone Eurorack (buyers remorse) .... loads of modules to choose from and a growing platform.

I want a TIME DELAY ...... so I write Modcan at the address on their website modcan@sympatico.ca ..... their DSP delay 59B looked enticing ..... email is returned undeliverable no such address..... have they gone out of business ?

So I write Synthcube .... they have NO digital delay modules at all..... but I might be able to get the TIME MACHINE from Blacet Research .... they say they will get back to me about availability.

The time machine is an analog delay ..... and the frequency response (bandwidth) shrinks to 400Hz on long time delays ..... then there is the business of the quality of the analog chips .... will I get "good" or "cheap clones" ?

I cannot understand why somebody like Rpger Arrick of Synthesizers.com has not designed a proper delay module for his synth business ? ..... surely I am not the only one having this problem.... he has come out with good modules recently .... Mixer ++ and Envelope ++ and now the Curver.... but I cannot get him to do a Phaser or a Delay..... and he wont tell me why.

I got the 8-stage Phaser I wanted (Deep Equinoxe) and I love it..... but cannot seem to find a delay I can be happy with.

Doesn't anybody make a modern DSP digital delay with awesome specs for 5U systems ????

I am not one of those "analog purists" that must have vintage second-hand gear.

Is 5U dead or dying ? Do I now have to buy Eurorack cases and start over ?

Please say it ain't so.... and point me to an Ultra Modern Digital Delay ..... with awesome specs..... that I can simply plug into my synthesizers.com rig

Thanks you for reading and sympathising with my plight ...... if you can HELP find such an animal then I will love you forever.

Have a great day
josaka
5U market and number of modules/manufacturers and sellers has never been greater.. you would not really know it from this place.. it seems pretty jaded in here.. very little enthusiasm for new companies or products.. not a healthy look .. but out there in the real world there are new companies and older ones doing new stuff all the time quietly.. not weekly granted but recently there are quite a few interesting things .. negative posts like this are really not helpful..
josaka
on a seperate note I dont really want FX for the modular as cost VS space VS outboard is a no brainer.. you can get pro level FX for !/2 the cost of what it would be to make/sell a 5U module..
Thalassa
josaka wrote:
it seems pretty jaded in here.. very little enthusiasm for new companies or products.. not a healthy look .. but out there in the real world there are new companies and older ones doing new stuff all the time quietly..


I agree. While the MU format is not dying at all the 5U Format forum at Muffs it seems so. Lately there are almost no new topics and almost no new faces.

About a digitial delay Free State FX has a MU version of the Eventide Digital Delay Line that you can buy at Noisebug

https://www.noisebug.net/products/fsfx114-digital-delay-line

https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/eurorack/delay/euroddl
ranix
Josaka he probably wants voltage control over the delay amount.

Stephen, try out https://steamsynth.com/shop/moog-unit-modules/voltage-controlled-digit al-delay/

Nothing's stopping you from building a small euro system and using it with your existing 5u gear. Most of my one row of euro is delay modules for various things that generally don't exist in 5u. You can easily connect cables between 5u and euro with no issues.

Here's my small row of eurorack:

lisa
How about this?

https://steamsynth.com/shop/moog-unit-modules/voltage-controlled-digit al-delay/
dude
here, as mentioned ,is a very sad look at current affairs of 5u. but i don't think it's as dim as picture painted from this forum.

i believe 5u modcan will return. it just takes time to recover from health issues and this is natural and deeply effects tiny (2 humans) operations.

5u has never been particularly "buy it now" aside from used market. there's patience involved, usually even required, particularly as compared to over-saturated bloat of euro.

but there won't be any confusion about use case aspects for the user. you will know if you love euro (it is easy to find in this day/age). you will know what it feels like to patch on. i'm not saying this needs to apply to the masses, but you will feel the difference between modular of different shapes/design philosophy.

a panel: has flex/does not have flex
a jack: wiggles a lot/does not
cables, power supply, voltage range expectation/standardization
aesthetics may be anywhere from no concern whatsoever or of great concern.
hp...how many hp is that...will it fit on these rails? is there a weird gap in my case on one side or between modules from different manufacturers? do i need to take a drill to my faceplate in order to have this module fit on these...fixed rails? are these sliding rails? and on and on.

i seek an modular instrument. i can push on the panels, they don't bend. it feels solid. the clunk of the jacks feels significant. the size of knobs has impact on how parameters are set/chosen. inputs/outputs make sense. my patching ideas are as welcome as the system i have designed and its ability to work as an instrument. . .that's all a feeling i have and it's in contrast to my half a dozen attempts at making euro systems.. because it was easier and "cheaper"(nope) and available to buy now. and all the shiny new.

to me euro feels like cheap disposable toys designed for humans the size of children. i am not an overly large human. average sized i think. my vision declines as i age but i wear glasses. i am BY NO MEANS SUGGESTING that anyone else shares the experience i describe, should feel what i say is fact or anything like that. it is purely and strongly clearly own experience and i couldn't be clearer on the subject.

i suppose what i mean to say is that you will know if euro feels good in use case. and if that does feel good then your answer is easy and obvious. try a system out! but if in fact you don't love the euro experience, you do have options. and hopefully those will remain. i can imagine the trouble is that euro is so much more profitable that it is a giant disincentive to make large formats.

bottom line is we are lucky to have the glut of choice available in modular options as it has not always been the case.
TimeRaveler
The Strymon El Capistan is one of the nicest sounding delays in my opinion. It works with modular levels and even has a CV/pedal input - I set it to control Time but I think its changeable.
josaka
Quote:
here, as mentioned ,is a very sad look at current affairs of 5u. but i don't think it's as dim as picture painted from this forum.


I really dont get this.. more stuff available than ever in 5u..

Dove Audio have a new osc + a new sequencer coming
Corsynth has a 4 channel A-AR CONTOUR GENERATOR + drum modules
Electrosmith has a new CMOS osc and filter
Frequency Central has a complete roland 100M voice in individual modules
noise engineering has 2 new digital osc similar to the other 2 osc
STG has a new osc
.com has a new wave curver
SSL has 2 sequencer/gate aids plus a bunch of things in the works a drum module and serge usg style thing.
GRP has a top Vocoder coming
Oakley has a 2 osc sem style synth
Laurentide works has a 3080 filter clone
hordijk has a some recent things
Free state FX is always up to something
Grove has a drum synth an osc and some other bits

and in UK there is a big store selling 5U KMR..

that is just off the top of my head.. there useg to be less than half this amount of makers a few years ago..
dude
i just mean in reflection to op.

this 5u forum often feels like a ghost town regarding site traffic or posts/topics/threads. but take into consideration that my reflection goes back to times as they were 10 years ago or something.

i definitely mean to paint picture of action on manufacturers parts as that is my understanding of function for format current day!
josaka
Quote:

this 5u forum often feels like a ghost town regarding site traffic or posts/topics/threads. but take into consideration that my reflection goes back to times as they were 10 years ago or something.


yep.. ..the words "Old Farts." . does spring to mind smile
dude
39yo here atm
josaka
Baby Face smile
Faustgeist
25 years old here (but trapped in a 51 year old body).

Stephenmendes, I get the feeling most 5U folks (me included) outboard much of their effects to the great selection of pedals in the world. Forgoing some CV control, but opening the flood gates for options.

Also check out DIY builders such as Rich at Lower West Side Studios :

https://richsstudioproject.wpcomstaging.com/product-category/mu-synth- modules/
blw
This is why you often see little Euro rows next to 5U cases.
burdij
This module wasn't quite ready for a Knobcon debut this year but I have made some progress on it since then. The GMS-1380MU Digital Stereo Delay provides one mono delay channel of up to 4 seconds or a stereo delay of up to 2 seconds per channel. The minimum delay is 1 msec.



Audio is sampled at 16 bit/44.1 kHz rate. CV inputs for delay time modulation, delayed feedback to the input, and mix between audio input and delayed signal. Front panel controls determine the starting level of each. External modulation of one delay path around a base value can be used to produce flanging and chorus effects.

Besides basic delay operation, there will other processing types available. A couple of different reverberation algorithms, ping-pong slap back, stereo simulation, etc. are selectable using 1 inch OLED display. Delay time can be synced to an internal tap-tempo beat clock or an external clock input.

Jumpers allow selection of -10dB or +4dB output level. There is an input level control and an LED overload indicator so that input level can be adjusted so as not to overdrive the inputs and cause distortion.

User installable upgrades. MSRP around $275 +- a few bucks. Coming soon in Eurorack too.
Dilibob
I totally disagree with the assumption of the OP in that everything needs to get shoved into the 5u format for it to be viable, thats more what eurorack is about. Number ONE best delay is electro mechanical, a big thing called tape, lot of exciting things happening in tape. I also have a small eurorack thats has my granular delays. Also i run from 5u into vcvrack rack via a es-8, ton of voltage controlled tape and delay options this way that are amazingly good&innexpensive&reliable(i have huge delay sequences this way that would cost $ 100k + if i did them with tape and it would never make it through a performance). Bbd delays have also been around a long time (theres a analog chip that makes this easy to do). In the 5u I build up delays with basic modules: i use envelopes and cascades of oscillators with soft triggers to make all sorts of custom delays, this is often mixed with 5u sequencers for extremely complex particle like delays . Finally i have a extremely sophisticated 4 and 8 channel delay when i loop things through recording console with protools.
steffengrondahl
First:

The lack of activity in this subforum is due to just one person ... John L Rice, who have left muffwiggler (how dare you angry cry )

Second:

Eurorack is much bigger than 5U (or os it the other way around hmmm..... ), but what you get is modules for farts and krell evil lol If you - like me - want big Berlin school sequencing, nothing beats 5U (or more precise: You have to use 5U to make Berlin School sequencers razz ). OK, seriously, yes there's much more in eurorack, but actually I did choose 5U partly because it has fewer modules, thus fewer choices (less is more you know).

Third:

5U sucks in regards to delays, delays, delays, delays very frustrating
Yes, there's the Digital Delay from Doug/steamsynth/Synthetic Sound Labs, but this is not syncable and the maximum delay time is too short to be really useful (but otherwise nice).
The Eventide from FreeStateFX might not be available at the moment? seriously, i just don't get it It is not listed on their site.
The GMS-1380MU could be the answer. Personally I feel it is a little to cramped (Cosmos knobs please).
I was able to purchase a dual delay from Modern before it went on hiatus. This is perfect. And I really think a syncable delay with CV inputs should be a module and not an outboard effect device. It's so essential. On the other hand I don't understand why all these phasers, resonators as 5U modules. To me they seems much more relevant for polysynths/string synths than a modular seriously, i just don't get it
Klangzaun
Speaking about delays immediately there come some in my mind:

- club of the knobs analog delay

- SSL Capacitor

- FSFX make a 5U custom module out of an Eventide H9
Just me
I have 14 off board delays in my studio. The last thing I need is to lose MU space to one! And I have just a few mfgs in my modular.
.Com
STG Soundlabs
SSL
MegaOhm
C Lee
Cynthia
Synthesis Technology
Hordjk (SP?)
Grant Richter
CGS
Haible
and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple.
hamildad
Seriously Synthbuilder, just make a 5U delay..

we're tearing ourselves apart here..

smack!

I was also going to post this.

'proper' jack sockets make this ideal to add to 5U.

https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/standalone-instruments-1/zen-delay/
Flareless
Personally I prefer to keep my inboard gear analog. I use a couple of MFOS VC-Echos which I love.

For digital delays I go outboard through a CGS60 Stomp Box Adapter.
josaka
Flareless wrote:
Personally I prefer to keep my inboard gear analog. I use a couple of MFOS VC-Echos which I love.

For digital delays I go outboard through a CGS60 Stomp Box Adapter.


you do know this is all your fault rich....
Flareless
josaka wrote:
Flareless wrote:
Personally I prefer to keep my inboard gear analog. I use a couple of MFOS VC-Echos which I love.

For digital delays I go outboard through a CGS60 Stomp Box Adapter.


you do know this is all your fault rich....


oops seriously, i just don't get it
stephenmendes
Thanks guys ......

Concerning Pedals and Outboard gear..... two problems that I cannot accept

1. No Voltage Control of Parameters ..... which is the very essence of Modular synth..... I do not want the delay as an end of line effect.... I want to use it in a patch in any number of different ways with VC on any (or all) of the Parameters.

2. LEVELS and IMPEDANCE matching..... pedals are made for Guitar levels, requiring attenuation on input and boosting on output which ruins S/N ratio.

The very idea of using pedals and outboard gear to supplement a Modular is ridiculous..... it's an excuse.... for a paltry offering of limited modules.

I will faithfully follow your links and see if I can find what I am after.

A BIG THANK YOU to everybody who posted
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