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Explain the STG sequencers to me
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> STG Soundlabs  
Author Explain the STG sequencers to me
WaveRider
Hi,

I am starting up my fist modular, I am looking for sequencers and have a question about the STG line of sequencers..

At first glance it is what I need; the DIN sync, and sequencers slaving to it....

But there are no clock out sockets anywhere????

So I won't be able to sync the MFB SEQ01 witch is doing the drums????

I won't be able to sync any non STG modules???? don't that go against the idea of a modular?

The way I understood their line, the time buffers gets the sync 24 from a tr808 (as an example) and a proprietary STG internal timing bus distributes the clock/start/stop commands to other STG modules ONLY.

Is that really it?


Is there any other solution for DIN sync where I'll be able to patch timing signals to other modules (clock, reset, etc???)


In the past I used to have 2xCSQ-600 + 2x Sh2, and tr808/909/CR78 all hooked up. I am trying to build something similar but with an XoXbox and MFB SEQ01 + drum modules.

The CSQ600 had DIN sync out AND clock, start, stop, continue In/out so all my timing distribution needs where taken care of....
MrDys
See that jack labeled "shift input"? Yeah. That's where the clock goes.
WaveRider
MrDys wrote:
See that jack labeled "shift input"? Yeah. That's where the clock goes.



so the STG sequencer can be clocked by other modules... don't it need a reset too?

AND the time buffer has no clock out? -to other non-STG modules
MrDys
WaveRider wrote:
so the STG sequencer can be clocked by other modules... don't it need a reset too?


It don't. But it has one. That'd be "stage 1 input".

WaveRider wrote:
AND the time buffer has no clock out? -to other non-STG modules


You only need the time buffer if you are planning on clocking these things over din sync.
WaveRider
MrDys wrote:

You only need the time buffer if you are planning on clocking these things over din sync.


that's it man, this is what I am trying to do; I want the XoXBox being able to drive MFB SEQ02, that is the whole point. I am sorry for the confusion.


I am guessing, but using STG's time buffer does not seem to work!!!! because I can't output any clock or timing to other modules. Is that true or not? seriously, i just don't get it

And inversly, could I DIN sync the XoXbox using the timebuffer slaved to MFB SEQ02? very frustrating No!!!.....

So that's what I am also asking, can this proprietary STG timing bus can give/receive timing to other modules?

and if the awsner is no, big bummer, I have no way of syncing my MFB SEQ02 (witch is doing drums) to my XoXbox, witch has DIN sync IN or OUT
suitandtieguy
I can't wait to get in front of my actual computer to type inside this thread. (I'm typing from my phone.)
sunsinger
The Time Buffer outputs DIN sync only at this time. It will not output timing to other modules unless: You have the Trigger Mini Store in your suite, that can output clock, but not divisions to other modules.
Or...
When the Time Divider comes out (I have the prototype pictured above) it will send timing/clock out to everything in your system, and it smokes!
Very cool module, it has become the centerpiece for timing on my modular.
sunsinger
BTW... The shift register inputs and outputs on the STG Shift Register can be used creatively to receive/send clock out to other modules.
sunsinger
Ooops, the above should read Shift Manager! Not Shift Register.
Sorry for the typo
negativspace
I'm sure STG has a more techy answer, but having never used the modules in question I can only offer this from years of 808, 909 and 606 use: once your drum machine is sync'd up you do have some trigger outs. Run all-on 16th or 32nd notes into a clock divider and you have yourself all the synced-up clock pulses you could want for the rest of your rig.

[edit: I dunno if the modern x0xbox has trigger outs? If not, my answer is irrelevant. Works well with the vintage ones, though!]
Bryan B
The time buffer has a DIN clock input and a buffered DIN clock out. It also has a ton of buffered outs on the PCB (if you can figure out which pin is which and attach them to some midi jacks like I did).

Because he is using the DIN Sync standard, there is a Start/stop signal on one of the pins which resets the count to one when you stop and start it. The trigger Mini Store responds to this and resets along with your drum machine or master source.

DIN isn't proprietary to STG, it is a great voltage-based clock signal that was used more before MIDI arrived. You could wire up a thin-pulse square wave VCO to act as a DIN clock, it doesn't get any more modular friendly than that.

As mentioned above, the Trigger Mini Store has a shift in so you could clock it step by step with any trigger, gate or LFO etc. It also can use the Time Buffer to great effect by allowing different timings derived from the DIN Sync clock. The trigger Mini Store outputs sequenced triggers which could be used to control other things like envelopes and other sequencers.

Now, let's look at your setup:

It might be easiest to have your MFB be your master clock. It has clock in or out (which by default is 96 pulses per bar = DIN Sync). The trouble here is that it is in 1/8" jack form, so you will have to convert it from the DIN cable to the 1/8" jack. Beg STG to wire you up a clock and start/stop input jacks when you place your order. You could also wire up the jacks yourself. This way you could connect the MFB to your time buffer input.

XOXbox has Din sync in or out. Set it to input and use the Time Buffer Output to drive it.

The thing I can't figure out by reading MFB's abbreviated documentation is whether or not you can output a start/stop signal that would run DIN Sync machines. If not, maybe you should use the Xoxbox a a master and use the start/stop signal from the time buffer as a reset signal for your MFB (also using the clock).

DIN sync can seem very confusing, but it is worth the effort to figure it out!
WaveRider
negativspace wrote:

[edit: I dunno if the modern x0xbox has trigger outs? If not, my answer is irrelevant. Works well with the vintage ones, though!]


No, the XoX box does not have trigger outs....

Just want to point out (that thread has been moved) that I am in Eurorack format.

I have used DIN sync extensively in the past with vintage Roland boxes.

For those who do not know, it's way tighter than midi, so still relevant today.

Being new to modular, I am really surprised that it is not readily available, I mean the (DIN sync) to (analog clock start/stop continue) connection. hmmm..... maybe it's more complicated than what I thought.

If the solution is available in eurorack I'll be glad to use it. But as I see it there is none. I am not competent for soldering/modifications of electronics. The STG line seems close but the solution is still unavailable in eurorack as of today....???


maybe I could go:
XoXbox DIN out to time buffer witch sends via internal bus to the STG trigger sequencer, witch could trigger the clock and reset the MFB SEQ01?
sunsinger
Find a used Mobius, you'll be glad you did.
They come up for sale all of the time here on Muff's.
It may be a bit pricey, but it's a great midi sequencer, DIN out, Midi In/Out/Thru. CV outputs for Pitch, Gate, Trigger, Accent, Reset, and Clock.

One clocks my whole synth, you can't beat it.
suitandtieguy
hey man i'm glad you're interested in this stuff.

the problem in being able to answer your question is that the MFB SEQ-01 is very short on documentation. i can't read German very well, so it's not possible for me to answer your question.

it has a "start/stop" jack, but i don't know what it is, if it's an input or an output, or what signal it presents or expects.

also there's a "reset" jack. "reset" is a dangerously ambiguous term to use on a sequencer because it doesn't actually explain what it does. "reset" could either place it at an imaginary stage zero or place it at stage one. if it places it at stage one what happens if it gets a trigger at the shift input while the reset input is high? who knows?

as far as playing nice with other gear goes i think once i get this Time Divider out the whole suite will make a lot more sense. i didn't put clock outputs on my sequencers because they just weren't necessary for the concept, and there wasn't room on the panel.
MrDys
The English documentation for the SEQ-01 is over here.
jarvis
start/stop on MFB requires a pulse for both the start and stop. DIN is either high for run or low for stop so you'd need something to trigger a pulse on each state change in order for DIN to sync your MFB correctly. You'd also need to send the same pulse to the reset input so that the MFB resets to the first step when you press play. I'm not at my modular now, but I'm pretty sure the Seq02 resets to "0", or before the first step, so that when it begins playing again the first step is played correctly.
WaveRider
suitandtieguy wrote:

once i get this Time Divider out the whole suite will make a lot more sense.


well please do! Guinness ftw!

don't forget eurorack!!!!


...have a look at a Roland CSQ-600... it had DIN sync out, and clock, start/stop, continue both in and out. You could chain them for a very tight sequencing rig.

What I would love to do is to be able to either have the eurorack as the master sequencer or the DIN boxes, with everything nicely locked together as my Roland boxes where. Keep in mind the possibility of having multiples DIN sync boxes, with 1 of them being able to be the master.,,

thanks for your efforts at developing a very nice sequencing system, I hope it will be completed soon!
WaveRider
jarvis wrote:
start/stop on MFB requires a pulse for both the start and stop. DIN is either high for run or low for stop so you'd need something to trigger a pulse on each state change in order for DIN to sync your MFB correctly.


isn't that also true for an A154/A155? So hopefully the STG panel will be able to do that also!!!!
giorgio
three cheers for the euro time divider
suitandtieguy
the time divider will have a start pulse output, but not an end pulse. i don't see a reason for an end pulse output except the SEQ-01.

you're probably pissed now.

however, don't be. it won't output triggers when the transport isn't in motion, so you will just have to hit the "start/stop" button on the SEQ-01 sometime before you restart the transport. which you'd have to do anyway if you were using an SH-101 in the same capacity.

and yeah of course it will be in eurorack. in fact, ReWire already has one, but it doesn't have the toggle switches.

it's possible that you could order a custom unit with an end pulse output if you _really_ needed one. it's just a firmware change. i'm just saying that i'm not putting it on the front panel.
WaveRider
suitandtieguy wrote:
the time divider will have a start pulse output, but not an end pulse. i don't see a reason for an end pulse output except the SEQ-01.

you're probably pissed now.



hi! well not really, as I am such a newbie I don't even compute that stuff yet.
lol


Hopefully your time divider will be able to offer coherent controls so DIN sync can control SOME other sequencer 8_) like the A154/A155 combo?

I don't get what is different about the A154/A155 combo and the MFBSEQ01 or SEQ02; I don't even know if there is a standard set of controls for sequencers in eurorack format....

..maybe I should not even get in modulars cause simple stuff like having a headphone plug or lots of inputs/outputs to -10/+4dbv, or DIN sync with sequencers.... proposed solutions sounds complicated to me...

btw at 300$ for each 1x16 triggers it is expensive for building a drum machine!!!!! that is why I ordered an MFB witch has 16X32steps for not much $$. I would be ready to pay 2X the cost of the mfb SEQ01 for something similar by STG witch obeys your time buffer

but thanks for all your help and if it comes to that I'll order something custom from you, that was a very generous offer!
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