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!!The Pseudo 0.5 258J Build/Mod Thread!!
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Author !!The Pseudo 0.5 258J Build/Mod Thread!!
Jarno
Ultra Wiggler


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

Posts: 768
Location: Rosmalen, NL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I actually searched for 2n3638 and got pn3638, specs look the same, but you will need the "non -A" version because that one has a much higher Hfe.
Could only find the pn3638a on eBay, anybody got a source for these?
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Peake
I'm in ur DIY. Filling cases with Buchla


Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

Posts: 2437
Location: Loss Angeles

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

J3RK wrote:


Transistors:

1 J201 (or original 2N4339, or 2N3819 or other FET, J201/2N4339 HIGHLY recommended)

Caps:

1 .0047uF (Recommend Styrene for accuracy, Mylar for classic, (or C0G also for accuracy, untested))


The J201 and 2N4339 indeed have similar but not exact idss ranges, which is the important bit for the sine shaper. I bought 35 J201 off eBay and got two with an idss in the .8x range, four in the .7x, and the rest were well below that, in the middle of its indicated range. Buchla specified the sine shaper as requiring an idss from between .7 to 1.2, "preferably" .8 to 1.1.

The 2N3819 is way higher than this, even for its minimum; you may find interesting distortion waveforms from this...

Test rig for determining idss:

http://www.forsselltech.com/media/attachments/JFET_Jig1.pdf

Ignore everything below grounding S. In the diagram, "ground" is the negative battery terminal. One milliamp meter, one 9V battery, three alligator clips, and you're in business. G and S go to the negative terminal; a single clip to both leads is fine.

Or more simply:

-Alligator clip the + VOM lead (set it to DC current) to a 9V battery's + terminal
-Clip the - VOM lead to the FET's Drain pin
-Clip the FET's G and S pins together and on the other end, to the battery's - terminal.

Note that regarding caps, Buchla used .0047uf Polycarbonate in every one of his oscillators from the 158a through the 258c, upon which this clone is based. There is no "mylar for classic" in this instance. In the Moog 901s and EMS Synthi oscillators, yes.

I've started a parts/build blog on this oscillator, for those who wish to use some vintage parts or not. Will be updating as more is learned:

http://ebolatone.blogspot.com/2011/03/vintage-parts-in-j3rks-258ish-cl one.html

Thanks J3RK!

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[WTB] Buchla 266r version 1 front panel


Last edited by Peake on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

Posts: 2495
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

By mylar for classic I meant it contributes to a slightly thicker? Sound. There are a lot of variables at work here, but it did seem to make a slightly audible difference. Polycarbonate should be listed as well, but I haven't personally tried them. I'll definitely get some to try out now though w00t nice blog too! I'm planning a pair of accurate/modern ones, and a pair of vintaj/mostly vintage ones.
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Rod Serling Fan Club
aquatic hitchhiker


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

Posts: 3433
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Glad you are doing that Peak. I am still working out my approach but I am going to do 2 double oscillators and I think I might build one of the “258s” vintage per your info and maybe go for cleaner modern (or just different) approach with the other. I like variety.
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Peake
I'm in ur DIY. Filling cases with Buchla


Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

Posts: 2437
Location: Loss Angeles

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Interesting that, about the mylar. I'll try it too. RSFC, yes, variety is fun. I'm glad in this project that we get lots of choices.
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J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 22 Dec 2009
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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I just used a Greeny-esque mylar on the old one. Now to find some other varieties. Mr. Green
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sanders
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Last Visit: 31 Jan 2013

Posts: 374

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Where do u get these polycab caps?

How about the Mylar ones?

i think that my arp odyssey uses silver mica.
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J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mylar is available pretty much anywhere. They're quite common. They're usually glossy, roundish squarish shape a lot of times. Mouser has Silver Mica. They are fairly expensive. I wanted to try them in something I was working on, but for the amount I needed, it would have been very expensive.
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gwaidan
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Polycarbonate sorta disappeared in the early 00s, so all that's available is NOS-see http://my.execpc.com/~endlr/film.html for more details
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brother303
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

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Location: Ruhr-Area/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hi J3RK,

would it be possible to provide some wiring diagrams with the building instructions of how to wire up the tl074 (output boost) to one muck and the lin/exp-switch mod to another muck?

This would be incredibly helpful!

thumbs up

Best regards
Greg

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DIY is all about the backlog. If you don't have a huge backlog, you aren't trying hard enough.
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J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 22 Dec 2009
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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can do a little non-inverting amp diagram using a TL071 or TL074. I need to go back and read through the lin exp thing again before I could do that one. It sounds simple, I just need to re-read it.
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brother303
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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Posts: 364
Location: Ruhr-Area/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hi,

J3RK wrote:
I can do a little non-inverting amp diagram using a TL071 or TL074. I need to go back and read through the lin exp thing again before I could do that one. It sounds simple, I just need to re-read it.


Very cool.

Thanks lot!

applause

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DIY is all about the backlog. If you don't have a huge backlog, you aren't trying hard enough.
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emdot_ambient
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
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Location: Frederick, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

...and so, with 2 boards ordered, I finally have to dig into the "rare and expensive" parts sourcing game sad banana I've been dreading this...
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J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

None of them are THAT rare, or expensive really. If you go for a real 4339, that would be where it might get a bit expensive. Otherwise I found that J201 for the sine shaper is cheap, nearly the same, and does an excellent job. Exponential converter is relatively cheap if you go with a THAT340. It's $6 but it also takes care of another pair of matched NPNs from the board as well. The 2N3638 is hard to find, but the NTE 129 replacement for it is available, though relatively expensive. Not horrible though. CA3080s are readily available in the $2-$5 range, and that's pretty much it for the tricky stuff. You can get all of this (short of a real 4339 and the CA3080) at Mouser.
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emdot_ambient
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Location: Frederick, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

J3RK wrote:
You can get all of this (short of a real 4339 and the CA3080) at Mouser.

I can't find THAT340s or 2k Tempcos at Mouser...unless my search skillz aren't up to snuff (which they might not be).

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thermionicjunky
Thyratron Genius


Joined: 03 May 2007
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Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

emdot_ambient wrote:
J3RK wrote:
You can get all of this (short of a real 4339 and the CA3080) at Mouser.

I can't find THAT340s or 2k Tempcos at Mouser...unless my search skillz aren't up to snuff (which they might not be).


http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/THAT/340P14-U/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtvtNzZ 3W%252bLwPs13BvRXYhJhEDetgqwQnc%3d

That's it, right?
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J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Last Visit: 23 May 2013

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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's the correct THAT chip. I forgot about the tempco. I would go to either Bridechamber or Magic Smoke for those. I'm sure there are plenty of other places, but I know they have these ones have them. Mouser may have them, but I haven't looked. I like the big PRC ones best.
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emdot_ambient
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Cool, thanks! Sometimes me and Mouser's search function...well, let's just say it's a relationship we're both working on. lol
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theantiroman
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Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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Location: Inside the Beltway

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Is anyone going to build the modern version only?

I'm going to look for a parts list for that, that is, try to assemble one.

I'm probably not too interested in tracking down crazy parts but I will be building up two boards and placing them in a single panel.

Also what is the rationale to go about running this on 12V, if it will run off that? Not really a problem if it won't; I need to learn my power supply DIY tech eventually anyway!

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An eagle-eyed viewer might be able to see the wires. A pedant, might be able to see the wires. But I think if you're looking at the wires you're ignoring the story. If you go to a puppet show you can see the wires. But it's about the puppets, it's not about the string. If you go to a Punch & Judy show and you're only watching the wires, you're a freak.
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Luka
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Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i think ill use modern parts and wont bother with THAT IC
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melbourne australia
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wtb:
220/230/240v Broken Dp4
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taking offers on (melbourne pickup)
revox pr99 mk2
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