Muff's Modules & More

[neilbaldwin]

I'm sure this has been discussed but....you know...as the search is broken etc. etc.

I'm on the list for the second batch of Cirklon and would really appreciate some user feedback, especially if anyone who bought one got the CV/IO expansion too (who wouldn't?).

I'm trying to decide whether to drop the cash on that or try (well, plan) building something modular.

[tIB]

im watching this thread...

i was hoping you'd grab one so i could check it out and see if its for me. im thinking of reducing my euro sequencing so maybe see how you get on with it and we could talk swapsies/sales.

in my current pie in the sky daydreams im kind of on the fence between a cirklon or another OT, oranges and pairs obviously but...

[neilbaldwin]

[Ekofisk]

Do the right thing, get them both!

I use my Cirklon with my OT, and between them, there isn't a whole lot that can't be done. I have been having the rhythmic manipulated sampled stuff going on on the OT synched to the Cirlklon, sequencing external sources with the Cirklon and running them into the OT for both mixing and effects. It rocks!

The aux events on the Cirklon are worth the asking price alone. If you're curious about it, check out the P3 (the Cirklon's predecessor) manual. The aux-events are basically unchanged, as of now.

[neilbaldwin]

Nice

It's the Aux functions that are really whetting my appetite for the Cirklon.

I already have an Octatrack and while it's MIDI/sequencing capabilities get better with every release, I think my needs are somewhere between that and the Cirklon.

That's why I'm wondering if I just built something modular, something a bit quirky (yes, I'm looking at you 'Rene'...) then I might have my needs sated without dropping a grand on a Cirklon.

Tough decision.

[tIB]

no halvard, i want to check out your extensive videos of these functions...

[neilbaldwin]

Videos? Yeah, lets see 'em

[Ekofisk]

Hehe. Maybe it's time to buy a tripod...

[neilbaldwin]

[Ekofisk]

It's essential.

[tIB]

[Nelson Baboon]

I have my cvio box (banana version, made by Colin) finally arriving in a few days.

I have not been using the cirklon much until now, and hope that this will inspire me to get started on it again.

My problems with it thus far are as follows. I don't write 'songs' - what I really want in a sequencer is something that is very similar to an analog sequencer, but with lots more of it, and then some uniquely midi features built in.

By a very, very wide margin, the sequencer that comes closest to this is the Schrittmacher, though I suppose that one could make a case for the Octopus. Ultimately what soured me on the Octopus was the fact that you have to remember all sorts of esoteric key commands....

I love the aux events, but they are embedded in a structure that just drives me batty. It takes me a few seconds to set up something on the schrittmacher where I have notes on track one, with the velocity values (from a sequence of another length with different timings) on track 2, with the note timings on track 3, and with the pitches being modulated by track 4. I can then mess with the specific values, but setting this up is very, very fast. I find it somewhat of a pain to do on the cirklon, which at this point (for my use) is simply a p3 with a nicer display.

The cirklon also does not have nearly the granularity of individual event times that the schrittmacher does, and it is not anywhere near as easy to set up a track where the individual notes have different timings.

I've spoken to Colin about my issues, which admittedly are not the usual ones, and he seems to have some empathy for someone who is using the sequencer in this way. As a starting point, I'd really like to have him allow the different event types within a track to have their own # of steps, and he agreed in theory to do this....but I'm just not sure that any of this will happen. The design of the instrument is just so, so heavily influenced by song writers, especially Paul Nagle, who just pull him in another direction.

Colin is great - I can understand where he's coming from with all of this. I've really never had this level of support - I asked him for nrpn support (to more completely control the gotharman anamono) and he implemented it in a couple of days.

Where do I see the Cirklon fitting in? I have some ideas, but I'm waiting for the cvio box, and then I'll try to dive in. Of course, figuring out how to set up the cv/gate events will come first. There really isn't much in the way of documentation for this thing yet (although finally there is a basic manual)

[neilbaldwin]

Good post, nb.

I tend to not 'write songs' so it's interesting to read your struggles with the Cirklon.

[tIB]

be interested to know how you get on nelson. the schritmacher really appeals too, though id need a midi to cv with that which puts me off. its a shame the only way you can experience stuff like this is by buying it but there you go. the cirklon seems to tie everything together into one box which appeals.

btw, that cvi/o box, is it something easily diy-able?

neil as i said if you do decide against the cirklon let me know and ill likely take it off your hands... maybe try it first and then decide.

[Nelson Baboon]

[neilbaldwin]

[revtor]

The CVIO is easily DIY-able. If you can hack a printer cable apart and solder jacks to the wires, then you can do it. If you can drill holes in a panel and mount the jacks, then it's essentially what Colin is offering soon.

I don't write "songs", but listening to a pattern loop for a hour gets a bit much. so the ability to chain patterns together into songs is what allows you to take your pattern, copy paste it, change it, copy paste it etc.. build something that evolves.

The aux events can be used to construct something that evolves too of course. So can simply using patterns of different lengths.

Setting up tracks and patterns isn't instant but it is by no means cumbersome or a pita. Like anything with massive functionality and depth you have to get used to using it. For something that run your entire studio, it's pretty slick.

I do hope the feature creep ends soon and UI optimization begins. The problem with Colin's unrivalled "customer support" is that there exists the possibility of adding too many features that might clutter up the usability of the UI's first "layer".. if you know what I mean. But watching all the requests come in, I can't imagine anything else that caters to so many different modes of operation.

Even Nelson's way of looking at it as a big rack of analog sequencers is right there, albeit not as instantly as Schrittmacher. Although CV outs arguably puts it ahead of Schrittmacher in that aspect.

Think Techno tracks - That's Cirklon's roots.

have fun
~Steve

[gosh]

I have a cirklon (without the cvio on order..shock horror, but I have no cv gear and don't want to go down that road just yet).

I haven't used a schrittmacher but can understand where Nelson is coming from with regards setting up tracks where velocity, note gates and note values are on different lengths..i used to do this on my doepfer maq and it was a great source of evolving patterns. However, I think the cirklons way of doing it is, whilst slightly slower, much more advanced (than what I understand of other seqs). Being able to grab, swap or push values between other events but only on certain steps (and modulating between different tracks each time). And then assigning accumulators (essentially similar to LFOs) or randomness generators to change when things happen. Ie. you can do everything the schrittmacher can do but with more control.

As mentioned Colin has said multiphasic patterns (tracks with different lengths) are on his list, along with a number of other things.

I'm confused what you mean about control over individual note times? You can set each notes duration and delay to 48ths of 1/16th. That certainly enough flexibility for me. You can also use an aux to change timebase which is a great feature for interesting rhythms.

However, where the cirklon is by far the best thing I've ever used is in terms of it's UI. The gang feature and encoder slope feature are absolutely amazing.
It's also the little things. I sold my motu midi express since getting it since it basically serves as my USB midi router now. It also works as a mungo sync, allowing you to to stop say an elektron mid-live set, load a new snapshot or project, and then re-start without stopping the cirklon. It's having 5 midi ins, 5 midi outs, a dedicated sync port, USB hub and an analogue drum-trigger feature buillt into the sync port. Everything has been thought about deeply.

It just gets better everytime i use it and the mind boggles at the things it can do.

PS. I don't really write songs either, but the song feature is the only song feature I have started using on all the sequencers i've had..it's really quick and intuitive.

I don't think you'd regret getting a cirklon

[tIB]

^ are tracks with different lengths not implemented yet then? good to know the ui is there.

cheers for the info revtor, i could just about do that.

[gosh]

every track can have a different length time and timebase. Every track can also have different playback directions (including random, and not-so-random type modes). Every track can also be modulated to change direction, timebase and length.

What is key to remember though is that a track on the cirklon contains a note value row, a velocity row, a duration rown, a delay row and 4 aux rows. Therefore all of those rows share the same settings. So....to have a set-up where a 4 step note value row is played using a 5 step velocity row (for example, to create a dynamically changing pattern) you have to either use inter-track events. ie. Track 1 holds all your note values (and also velocities, but these are irrelevant). Track 2 you can use as a kind of dummy track if you want although it doesn't have to be dummy (where the note values you enter are irrelevant). You can then assign an aux on track 1 to grab the velocity values of track 2 on every step of track 1. The ultimate conclusion is the same as having a 4 step note value row and a 5 step velocity row but it's a bit long winded to set up. However, where it wins is that you can set when you want to grab values. So track 1 doesnt have to always grab track 2, just sometimes. This itself can be modulated by use of other auxs.

Of course you could just set up a random velocity aux to give a similar dynamic pattern.


I'd really suggest reading the p3 manual to give you an idea of what aux's can do. So imagine their power but with a nice big clear screen and fantastic UI.

[neilbaldwin]

Im in.



Thanks for the info and long posts chaps, much appreciated.

[Nelson Baboon]

yes - the cirklon is far more advanced than the schrittmacher. but it's way, way faster to set up stuff on the schrittmacher (for me) unless I want to really do more complex modulations and aux events.

As far as individual step times - well, if you can simply set every step to a different length with that level of granularity, it shows you that I haven't spent enough time on this. My recollection is that you can set a note length, but that the choices are very limited. But I'll have to take a look at this.

Perhaps you're taking about the 'gate time' (god, these terms are used so inconsistently - on the schrittmacher, gate time means what kind of note it is, 1/16, 1/2, etc....)? On the schrittmacher I can quickly set up a track where the first note is a couple of ticks, the second is 4 beats, etc, etc, and then I can also set it up so that another track of a different length controls the direction from step to step, etc. You can pretty much do anything on the cirklon, but for me, for this kind of direct modular type patching, I find the Cirklon so, so much faster. Yeah - you're using menus, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels like it on the Cirklon.

I suppose I prefer using a track for one type of event. On the schrittmacher I'll use track one for notes, track 2 for velocity, track 3 for what they call 'gate time', etc - and it is just so fast to set this up.

Of course, the default is that the note track has a consistent note/gate length, velocity, etc - but the first thing I do is to break this stuff out.

At one point a few years ago I had a schrittmacher and a p3, and I sold the schrittmacher simply because it was so easy and fast to set this stuff up that I'd never use the p3. I sold it so that I would.

[tIB]

[gosh]

Glad the cirklon group will have some new buddies. Especially cirklon and elektron buddies. :-)

I've now set up my elektron MD (OT next!) as an instrument on the cirklon. You can save track values (CCs) per track per scene. So...I've put the mute channel cc's for the elektron in as instrument level definitions. When I want to store the MD's mute channel settings with a scene (without resorting to using the MD song mode) I simply hit the 'save track values with scene' button and next time that scene loads the correct mute status for the MD follows. Combined with pattern change (via either note or prog change message) the cirklon is now master to everything in my studio...I'm doing the same with my Ensoniq DP4 to save settings for each scene..kind of like just storing prog change messages but allows you to capture up to 96 CC's to transmit too (which you can name and save with the instrument for easy pick-out from the dropdown list).

Nelson, I'm not sure what the correct term is but i take gate time and note length to mean the same thing. ie. the amount of time a note is played before release. I'm not sure you can stretch a note to play longer than 16 steps but I might be wrong. You can very easily though so set step one to play a few ticks, step two to play 4 steps, step three to play a quarter note etc. Where notes overlaps you get either polyphony or slide depending on how your synth is set up.

I'm curious about playing with schrittmacher..it was what i was considering pre-maq16/3 and pre-cirklon..but one sequencer is enough for me and I don't see me losing the cirklon.

[tIB]

sounds good, unless neil doesnt like his ill be a fair while i think- the ot has taught me that im happier waiting until things are stable os wise.

you decide to keep that dp4 in the end then?

[Ekofisk]

I am pretty sure you can set the note length/gate to be anything from 1/48 of a beat to several bars.

I am still learning on the Cirklon, but after the initial confusion (inevitable on a machine this complex, I guess) of the hierarchy, and some confusion regarding other small stuff, I am starting to get the hang of it. It does take some time to setup initially, but when that's done, most of the other stuff comes pretty easily.

I tend to set up several tracks to the same instrument. That way, by muting and unmuting the tracks, I can turn extra notes, modulation, random stuff on and off easy for the same instrument. Doing this means it's pretty fast to improvise out a whole 'song' with a fairly complex structure.

Throw in a bit of sampled madness from the OT, an you're in business.

[neilbaldwin]

Sounds great.

Just waiting to hear news on the second batch of builds.

Supposed to have been 'taking payments' before the end of August.

[gosh]

[tIB]

heh, good skills, interested how that turns out, ive read lots of good stuff but never heard one. think todd gys has one and likes it a lot.

i got a dp2 recently but i was sold it by a bad man and it doesnt work.*

*(bargain price from neilbaldwin as the battery needs swapping, havent got around to it yet.)

[neilbaldwin]

Sold as seen motherfucker, sold as seen...

[tIB]

bad man, bad man!!!

[neilbaldwin]

On a serious note for a second: tIB, did you get any response from Sequentix?

[tIB]

not yet, though i only mailed him yesterday.

[gosh]

ha, yeah I bought my DP4 busted and the encoder was screwed. I have a spare if you ever need one. Mine should be good for 50,000 revolutions and all

The original encoders are long gone so i sourced an alternative. I probably should have changed the battery whilst it was open....

Definitely get it working though. Amazing effects box for the price...

[tIB]

^ yeah i will, have the battery so just waiting to have two useable hands again!

[Ekofisk]

I think they (Colin and his wife) are still crazy busy. Emails can be a bit slow in my experience, but they eventually answer.

[neilbaldwin]

Ah no worries. Just a touch of paranoia.

[monads]

[richard]

the more wigglers buying a Cirklon and plaguing Colin with requests for esoteric features the better. If enough of us ask he will do this stuff. I agree completely with Nelson's desires for this machine

[tIB]

^ that's a pretty good shout.

[neilbaldwin]

Just an email will do for now. I'm not fussy...

[youkon]

and it is getting even more interesting!
Colin is just building a dinsync demuxer thing, where you can have additional (about) 24 triggers out of the cirklon!!!!!

this means analogue drum heaven! take the cv's and gates for the synths, the triggers for drums
How I understood so far, it will be probably a diy thing. you have to implement the demuxer board, where you want to use it. e.g. place it in your modular, it gets power from modular bus, you take some blindpanel for the different trigger outs, some soldering. that's it.

exciting stuff, I'm glad there are already some eurorack drum modules.. let's see what TTA will bring out

(you could also put it into your 606 or something else... with triggers)

[gosh]

and to add some details to this, where triggers shine vs midi is that layering about 8 midi hits on the same tick/beat will result in a delay between the first note and thelast of about 5ms. Whereas the analogue trigger interface (which is already built into the cirklon end via the din sync port) can do it in microseconds not milliseconds. So..tighter drums. Unfortunately I have nothing to take advantage of this with unless i hack my 808

[tIB]

shit, thats a big feature right there for my uses...

[Jauqq]

[tIB]

^ the P3 manual is the place to start i believe: http://www.sequentix.com/pdf/p3-manual-v3.1.006.pdf

[neilbaldwin]

Wowser!

I'm emailing Colin and asking him to put extra unicorns in mine.

[ringstone]

[revtor]

[Jauqq]

Perfect answer Steve

I'd looked through the manual, and your explanation has cleared things up now.

[Jauqq]

I've an old Tangerine Dream interview, where in reference to the track "Exit" from the album of the same name mentions "The fast running notes up and down are made on the PPG sequencer with a random reset point to give a free feeling".

I take it this is the exact same thing that Cirklon Aux events wouldn't break into a sweat doing?

[tIB]

i hear that production run number 2 is scheduled for october, with cash being collected later in september.

im on the fence as for whether to dive in now or wait till run 3. id be selling off all my euro sequencing so it feels like quite a commitment to something ive never used or even fully understand. ill be hitting the P3 manual later...

how wonky is the current OS? I dont want to feel like im beta testing it.

[mono-poly]

Nelson post a pic of your nanafied circlon please!

[gosh]

Os is rock solid. Ive had no problems and in no
way feel im beta testing.

[gosh]

Ps if you fancy a trip to reading you are welcome to try out.

[tIB]

kind offer, thanks! think neilbaldwin is getting one in the next batch so ill have a good luck at his if i dont put my name down for the next order.

my euro sequencing isnt all that to be honest, so i can probably live without i just wonder how much ill miss clock modulation stuff, though i hear the cirklon can do that to some degree.

[revtor]

[tIB]

^ thanks for that, I think i'm probably worrying too much- what Ill lose out on will be more than made up by the power of that thing, and ill still have a couple of hex zones and a brains + 2x pressure points combo to get wiggly on. fuck it, im on the list... firesale pending!

[Nelson Baboon]

[digital_steve]

You can have my spot on the list tib!
I had to pull out of my cirklon purchase
Too many bills coming unexpectedly.
I am getting a second (or third) hand p3 in the mean time (a month or so in the future) for my sequencing needs.

The only computer i have at the moment is an ipad, all the rest are either in pieces or packed away. I like it that way now!

The Cirklon is going to be just stunning though... if only i had

[ringstone]

Hey Steve

Nice to see another Tassie Wiggler

Sorry to hear you can't afford the Cirklon, hope you have fun with your P3 though

Cheers
Blair

[digital_steve]

Whoa... A Tassie person... Well i never!
Are you getting a Cirklon? Maybe we can work on an insurance scam?

[SamUK]

How is the CK pattern mode on the Cirklon? I can't seem to find any information on it, is the software for it finished yet?

[neilbaldwin]

Mine arrived today

Sitting down with a beer and reading through the manual (again) but this time with the Cirklon actually in front of me

Luckily for my wife, she's out with friends tonight

[tIB]

[Low-Gain]

Waiting for mine to arrive sometime in the next couple weeks..
i'm on pins and needles!

[neilbaldwin]

[tIB]

Intuitive is good.

[LPHovercraft]

I'm super psyched about the Cirklon, but I'm actually chiming in because reading through this thread was the first time I discovered that Nelson Baboon got banned. I'm simultaneously shocked and completely unsurprised, if that's even possible.

IDK, it makes me sad for some reason.

[impaledfaith]

[LPHovercraft]

He was like a super grumpy, drunk uncle — truly caustic, hyperbolic in the extreme at times, and yet I just couldn't stay mad at him. I've been on the receiving end of some totally unwarranted vitriol from Uncle Baboon, too.

He must have really pissed off the wrong person.

[renderful]

It looks like this: http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=679337

lead to this: http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50704

lead to this: http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50711

Sad, really. I hated the guy, then promptly loved him.

[LPHovercraft]

Yeah, that was pretty stupid — like going to a party and accusing the host of stealing your favorite lighter in front of everyone. It's just totally unnecessary and accomplishes nothing.

He really pushed it this time. I really hate to see people flame out like that.

[neilbaldwin]

Anyway, back on topic.

It's good. It's really good.

[elemental]

Mine due to arrive next week... i'm proper

Its just a shame it will prob be just when my girlfriend comes back from her 3-week holiday... two sexy babes who's knobs i'll be wanting to twiddle, will be so hard to choose

[neilbaldwin]

[neilbaldwin]

Quickly getting to grips with the Cirklon. I'm seriously impressed with it so far.

Been sequencing the Tenori with it, just because it's cold and I want to sit in front of the fire while I read the manual.

I recorded this straight out of the Tenori into my laptop so excuse the sound quality. I was just really excited by how you can can take a few small patterns and throw all sorts of controlled random elements to generate tons of variation. This is just 5 tracks, each with a 16 step pattern.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5493868/tenoricirklon.mp3

So much fun

[tIB]

[digital_steve]

[haven]

I am still waiting for mine. Need to get a panel for my Euro BOB ordered so I can build that thing!

[oozitron]

What's the current ordering situation?

A waiting list, or does Colin have some stock built up?

Unless someone wants to sell a used one for cheap

Drew

[miminashi]

[haven]

[EMP3]

Still loving the Cirklon. A bit of Cirklon Berlin School/Ratcheting to whet the appetites of those waiting for the next batch, it is worth the wait...

[s]http://soundcloud.com/emp3/ice-patch-extract[/s]

[auricle]

[SamUK]

[haven]

got my Cirklon 5 days ago and am just now learning it deeply by going through the manual and trying everything. I actually stopped in shock at one point and said "what IS IT?!" when I recorded AUX time base changes via SCULPT on a brownian motion pattern. This machine treats musical time like a yo yo! Loving it.

[Low-Gain]

Mine still hasn't arrived.. Was told it would be shipping middle of this last month... I understand that they have to be tested individually and he's had some setbacks.. But if i drop $2K into something over 2 months ago i should have gotten it by now. Specially when i'm told once already there were setbacks and that it would be shipping in the middle of the month.

Frustrating.. I know it will be worth the wait But it's frustrating.

[SamUK]

[Noha]

don't fret! I just received my Cirklon last week after paying for it in November, and while the wait was rough it is sooo worth it. The Cirklon has completely revolutionized my studio setup to the point where I was literally seeing CK patterns in my dreams last night!

[haven]

I paid for mine in November as well. The wait was hard but I had the manual, beta list and making music to keep me occupied. Now that I have it I just want to dig in and explore.

Yes, I will eventually make some videos for it once I have learned it and settled my gear that goes with it.

I still need that CVIO panel for my Eurorack.... What have people been doing for metal panels?

[Funky40]

[gosh]

[elemental]

Got mine last week too, only just got the time to really dig into it... so far it feels very solid and intuitive, and I've only just scratched the surface.

[16osc]

is it wrong that i really am drawn to it due to the 909-ish buttons. from his other work i get the feeling he appreciates the 909 sequencer in all respects. so expensive (to me) though. octatrack sequencer sort of filling the void for now.

[Kazremark]

Anyone know by chance what the current waiting time for a Cirklon is?

[EMP3]

1st one I've seen on ebay... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150803129393& ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

[akrylik]

The cirklon looks really nice...a couple of questions for the learned wise people here:

1. Has anyone used it to do lots of n-part harmony, such as jazz, fugues or 4 part chorale arrangements?
2. Can you get access to the CV/Gate outputs by using a db25-TRS snake?
3. Anyone know about the status of the June 2012 waiting list?

[Ekofisk]

2. Yes you can. But it requires that you have the optional internal cv-board fitted.

Sorry I can't answer your other questions.

[Rozzer]

[EMwhite]

I got an email today from them (apparently I inquired at some point so they had me on their list as a potential buyer).

My story is that the combination of possibly import tax (to states) and long lead times pushed me in the other direction and I bought a bunch of STG time modules; I really like them but obviously it's apples and oranges.

But for those on the fence or waiting for Cirklon availability, here is the latest information. I'm sure many of you also received the email.

- - - - - - - c u t - h e r e - - - - - - - -


I'm sending this email to everyone who expressed an interest in ordering a
Cirklon from the next production run.

Our main suppliers have now started production, and we expect to be able to
begin assembly in late July.
Our target is to start shipping in August and continue assembly and despatch
into September.
Colin will be doing the assembly and quality control of every unit himself,
so it takes a bit of time.

Payment is not required until units are ready to ship, and can be made by
bank transfer or credit/debit card.
Requests for payment will be made according to the order of initial enquiry,
to ensure that those who have waited longest get their units first.

If you would like to go ahead with ordering, please email me to provide the
following details by mid-June:

SHIPPING INFORMATION

Name:
Address:
Phone number:

ORDER DETAILS

Cirklon model required: BASIC (£999 UK Pounds) or CVIO (£1175 UK Pounds)

Cirklon configuration: DESKTOP or RACKMOUNT
We'll ship your Cirklon the way you prefer, however you can easily change it
as shown on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJSQLWva2JY

Break-out box: (Due to popular demand there are a few more options now
available)
DESKTOP WITH QUARTER INCH SOCKETS (£150 UK Pounds)
DESKTOP WITH 3.5mm SOCKETS (£150 UK Pounds)
19" RACKMOUNT WITH QUARTER INCH SOCKETS (£180 UK Pounds)
19" RACKMOUNT WITH 3.5mm SOCKETS (£180 UK Pounds)
EURO-RACK BREAK-OUT MODULE FULLY BUILT (£140 UK Pounds)
EURO-RACK BREAK-OUT PCBs TO BUILD YOUR OWN MODULE (£30 UK Pounds)

http://www.sequentix.com/cirklon/bobs.htm
http://www.sequentix.com/cirklon/euro-bob.jpg

[bullrunner]

Anybody using Arturia Spark with their Cirklon?

[Morley]

Tax and CVIO that I want push it above my budget right now. (over €1500)
Looks like a killer sequencer though.

[Knights Who Say Neve]

This unit could be what the MPC used to be for me; the center of my setup. Love the Octatrack, but it's fiddily to operate. I'd love to push the Octatrack back to just handling audio, and move the midi and CV to the cirklon.

Bloody expensive, but I could sell my doepfer MCV24 to help offset the cost.

Good plan?

[krv]

[gosh]

[jl]

Its odd that I hear such glowing reviews of the Cirklon when half the time I want to throw mine across the room. I am very frustrated. Hopefully my frustration will pass, but the UI is giving me some headaches. It definately isn't the sort of machine that you learn by playing around, because deleting and undoing are either not there or hard to access. I plan on sticking with it for a few more weeks at least, but I am curious if anyone can let me know how long it took them to figure this machine out - I'm having trouble simply setting up devices to play with it correctly (though some of that could be the fault of those devices).

Before this I was sequencing from a monomachine. It had a fraction of the features, but I could build tracks with my eyes closed. I never had to read the manual because I could just figure it our by messing around. I'm hoping I dont regret selling it and half the studio to get the cirklon.

Yes, I RTFM and all that, and I have had plenty of experience with a variety of tiny and cryptic menu systems that make the cirklon look like a direct brain interface by comparison. I just want to make music and not flip through pages and pages trying to figure out how to change note assignments etc.

So, let me know if these headaches will pass and if you have had any yourselves.

[haven]

You definitely need to work through building your instruments and note assignments first. Use the manual and get everything set up before being creative.

I was making music with the Cirklon after two sessions of sitting with it and the manual. After set up I went through the entire manual and tried everything. Once I built my Euro BOB for the CVIO and built my instruments for it I was very happy.

Lack of undo and erase patterns? I hear you there. There are other areas that are unfinished or need work. The OS is still in beta after all. There are ways around most of the shortcomings and there is enough there to make music with now.

Personally I found the Monomachine sequencer too static. The Cirklon can be like that but once you get into P3 events and inter track modulation the musical limits of most other hardware is very apparent. But you have to do the work to get there

[haven]

I should add that I still refer to the manual when I need to use something I have not used in a while. That does not bother me. The way P3 and Ck have several points at which they do things differently bothers. For example setting a pattern length has a different set of keys in either mode. Since P3 mode has so much more creative potential due to the AUX events I end up mostly using it. Then when I go to use the Ck mode I can't figure out how to do basic tasks and have to open the manual again

Oh well, I think I will just get a Maschine anyways to do drums with and leave the Cirklon for the modular and melodic sequencing MIDI synths. That decision has a lot to do with sounds than interface. Coupling the Cirklon with an Akai MPD can be fun but its the sampling engine of Maschine that has me interested.

[krv]

[gosh]

Suprised to say people struggle with Cirklon. I find it incredibly intuitive. Cirklon patterns def need some improvement to make them easier to edit and this is coming as well as a piano roll type display I hope. P3 type patterns are the bomb though as are track values in combination with force to scale/ key!

[sascha.victoria]

How's the menu diving on the Cirklon? Besides JL it seems people are loving it.

I should note that I found the MnM /MD really easy to use the the Octatrack the most frustrating piece of equipment I've EVER used. Somewhat in Elektron's defense I bought the Octatrack in the first 2 months. But still, way too much button pressing and menu diving for me.

[Chromex]

The screen is big and easy to read and I don,t find the menu diving a problem-the only problem is some functions you have to hit a button twice to bring up the page and sometimes I forget. But that is minor IMO, I am literally dependent on the machine, just ordered another as a backup as I do NOT want to contemplate doing without it should the first one quit for any reason..

[Knights Who Say Neve]

When the HELL is the next batch going to be ready??????

[gosh]

patience will be your friend although i know it's hard. I waited over a year for the first batch of cirklons and it's worth it. Remember it's just colin making it and he also spends a great deal of time programming stuff for those who already have one!

[Knights Who Say Neve]

[Knights Who Say Neve]

Oh man...I thought mine would be delivered today, but apparently it's been held up by customs

[richard]

I think I waited two years for mine, sold my P3 and MPC4k too early and ended up with no midi seq and instead developed a totally different way of working. By the time the Cirklon finally came it was obsolete (to me) and has just sat on my desk for a year. After a few years of modular I find I simply can't go back to the menu diving.

So, yeah, its a great sequencer, but its really designed to be at the centre of your studio and to be used every day so its complexities become second nature. Dig it out once a fortnight and it is quite difficult to rememer everything/get into the paradigm really. That is my experience anyway - it reminds me of the Andromeda in that regard

So I just sold it, which is a bit shocking, like, I thought were gonna be married and everything

[tIB]

She's my wife now.

I have some reservations about it but I'm going to try my hardest to learn it and make it indispensable as centre of the studio. I certainly need that after stripping back 3 sequencers recently. I'm hoping the cirklon can be the device that brings my sequencing together into one machine as opposed to working worn three or four different seqs... on paper it can be.

[dan_p]

^ I would be interested to find out how you get on with it, particularly on the programming and jamming.

[gosh]

congrats TIB and sorry to hear it didn't work out Richard. I just can't get my head round how people struggle with it..it seems so much more straightforward than other sequencers and offers so much more but there you go - each to their own and that was not meant as a dig.

@TIB it can 100% do that. For me it's much more than just a sequencer; it's almost like an instrument in itself when you start doing things like assign knobs A + B to control when things happen relative to other things (e.g. play alternate sequence or slide only when knob A is greater than accumulator etc works wonders for acid lines). Colin has just implemented 808 style fill too! Dope!

[tIB]

Thanks chaps, Ill update. I really do have to master this thing, not doing so gives me a major headache... ie I cant work with sequencers any more, it's not an option!

I think it will suit me, expecially from a live/jamming point of view which is how I work.

[richard]

In fact I made him to buy it using chinese burns

I really think it will suit TiB's music - more than mine anyway. Whether the way of working suits him is another question and will be interesting to find out.

[tIB]

I still have the marks.

The way of working is what worries me a little- from my very brief prior experience with it I thought it seemed a bit menu driven. If the menus are intuitive, easy to access and quick to navigate I can handle it, if I don't find them that way it might be a battle. I think richard's right though and that it will fit my music perfectly... I just hope it fits my brain.

What Im really hoping for is that I gel with it in the same way as I did the monomachine... it has so much more sequencer power (so more depth in terms of menu structure I imagine) but if I can navigate the menu system with the same ease Ill be made up. The 'instrument' nature of it suggests it might match me well.

[EMP3]

The Cirklon can be many levels of sequencer. Each level requires more experience / reading of the manual to master.

1. At it's simplest it is an extremely capable "analog" step sequencer - think mid 70's TD.

2. Next level up it is an excellent semi-structured melodic sequencer - think TD '80-'87.

3. Finally is can be something approaching a full song creation tool - a "linear" sequencer with lots more stuff thrown in.

I'm not really interested in 3. Many sequencers can do 1, though few are as good as the Cirklon. In terms of 2 I've not really seen anything to match it.

[tIB]

^ I got through the manual last night, coped alright until the auxiliaries!

Im hoping it can also be a wonky beat sequencer and that I can pack plenty of semi random stuff into those melodies. I think the part of the manual I didnt understand covered that!

[richard]

Well the Aux's are certainly the secret weapons and black art of that machine and it is pretty difficult to deduce their likely effects from the manual. How comprehensively the CV and clock inputs can be marshaled to the task of wonking one's beat I don't know. Never got that far with it - but in theory it should be possible.

What I liked about the P3 which i actually learnt and used a lot more than cirklon is that once my brain got it my hands got it too - it is a great interface, just what it does can be fucking complicated. So in case anyone is confused that it is the cirklon UI that makes it complicated. No that's not it - its more that what it does is pretty amazing. Colin is in the end an instrument maker in the same sense Don Buchla and Rob Hordijk are instrument makers and I think this logic is reflected throughout his designs.

[tIB]

^ music to my ears, an instrument is what I need and what I seem to click with best.

[richard]

well, you might still fucking hate it

[tIB]

Ha, I might! That I can't bring myself to hate my broken OT has to be a good sign. Needs must!

[Ekofisk]

I don't think you'll hate it, though.
Quickly setting up some melodic and/or rhytmic elements, then making them behave in random and/or predictable evolving ways is really easy with it. Very easy to make something pretty complex from something simple.
The way it handles scenes and patterns in a "song"-sense is a bit confusing to me still, but the whole sequencing a song aspect of it is still being developed, I think.

I needed some time to get past the basics of it, though, but it was well worth it. I am trying to use it as the main hub for my studio, and I think I can make it work. The absolutely seamless midi/cv integration makes this possible.

Absolutely one of my favorite pieces of kit.

[tIB]

[Ekofisk]

FWIW, I think the interface is a lot more logical than the OT. More often than not, if I don't know/remember a certain function, I find my self thinking "it would make the most sense if I could press x and y", and it usually is correct.
Can't really say that about the OT...

[haven]

I am loving Cirklon and Maschine combo. I use Cirklon to build patterns and trigger the modular while Maschine samples the results. Lots of ideas can be generated and sampled this way without having to go over to the computer. A nice bonus is the Cirklon works as a hardware scale quantizer for MIDI so I still don't have to practice scales and chords

[neat]

it has a built-in quantizer ?

[tIB]

^ it has fix to scale.

[Funky40]

and it has force to scale

[induktor]

I've been watching this thread for a while. I really miss sequencing away from the computer and this looks like a nice hardware alternative to my Numerology/Launchpad/Silentway rig (they are awesome in their own right).

[Knights Who Say Neve]

Well I finally got it. And hooked it up to my Minibrute. And let me say...

[gosh]

Glad u finally got it! Enjoy!!

[induktor]

@Knights Who Say Neve

Oh no! You've said IT!

Now I've said IT!

Congratulations on the Cirklon.

[t-bone]

there hasn't been an update on the cirklon home page since april, does anyone know when they will be shipping out new units?

thanks

[tIB]

very soon I think. The forum is very active and there's lots going on.

[hpsounds]

[Knights Who Say Neve]

[bullrunner]

Like a few others here--with the recent price drop on the Octatrack I got one and am busy learning it and the more I learn the better I like it. esp. the new pickup machines. I guess it is good I don't have my Cirklon yet. But here's to hoping it will be soon.

Has anyone got their Cirklon recently? If anyone can update us that would be great!

And does anyone really tire of seeing

cause then there is this:

[induktor]

I sent a Cirklon order request in today. This thing is just too good to pass up. CVIO and all. And now the wait.

[bullrunner]

I have been on the waiting list since early June 2012 and I am happy to report that my new Cirklon is now on its way. So Colin and Barbara are making progress on their waiting list. They give you a tracking number so you can watch as it makes its way to its new home! The wait may not be as long as you think.
I have much work to do as I also recently bought an Octatrack so 2 new machines to learn and then how to use them in combo. Equal parts awesome and overwhelming. But then, hopefully, gratifying fun. The OT has not been as easily embraced as I had initially hoped. The Elektron fourm seems to have seems good folks who are willing to help, in case anyone was wondering.

[Funky40]

[revtor]

The one thing you have to do first with Cirklon, which will slow you down for 5 minutes only, is setting up your instruments. Just naming them, and defining their MIDI/CV channels really. Once that is done it's pretty quick to jam away!! Read that part of the manual over and over so when you get your Cirk, you can get this over with and get to playing.

Another section worth pre-reading a few times is navigating the drum grid.. Or creating CK patterns I think it's called. a bit of setting up in there too in creating CK paterns IIRC.

[bullrunner]

Funky40, revtor--Thanks for the advice. Good to know one can get going on the Cirklon in a basic way. I am finding the Octatrack to be very awesome and am not sure why some people are not gelling with it. Though it is not instant gratification and I am rather late to the party, but with OS 1.2 there is plenty to work with. Any new features and further refinements is just icing on the cake to me --I did manage to crash the OT twice: not sure what I did but needed a hard reboot to get going again. The OT puts a smile on my face for sure! In your best valley girl voice just say "It's Super fun." lol

[iVardensphere]

I know it's not hardware but nothing I've found can touch Numerology 2 Pro. It's the sickest sequencer I've ever gotten my teeth sunk into (and it works with Silent Way if you're into host-driven cv sequencing).

I do have a lot of fun midi sequencing with the OT (hard to beat that instant groove gratification!) but when you want to go in depth.....

[induktor]

I dig Numerology. It's at version 3 now and Jim is working on 4. There is talk of multiple launchpad support in 4 among other things. It's my favorite piece of music software.

[induktor]

[tIB]

cirklon is here, first impressions are good- its obviously stupidly deep but Im finding navigating it fairly intuitive for the most part. I darent look at the aux events just yet...

[tIB]

Well... after a busy weekend of re-arranging/wiring the studio Ive finally gotten chance to play with it, Im blown away by it to be honest.

I had worries that it would lead me in a certain direction, but I really dont think thats the case at all- it goes in exactly the direction you want to push it, allowing more control than anything Ive previously used... by a mile... and Ive not even got to grips with the aux events yet!

Ive put it at the centre of everything, which is where I think it needs/has to be: its basically doing the job of the bits I sold for it (MPC, G2 engine* 2 kenton midi to CV's) and then some.

I was worried that the intertrack stuff might be a little convoluted, though I overlooked that if you are using CV's its as simple as routing one wire to a different location- simple! Ive also had a blast with a few of the aux events though need to go through them all to figure them out, very powerful though so far, and not too overly complex.

Ive had a couple of UI WTF's though nothing major- Im still at the stage where I dont really know it enough to understand why certain things are as they are, deleting and copying stuff seems to be more complicated than it needs to be though.

So far though Im really happy with it. Really really happy!!!

* OK so that can do more!

[Rozzer]

So jealous. I'm a really heavy user of the P3 and love it to bits. For melodic, generative, evolving, surprising and downright jaw-dropping step-sequences, the P3 is amazing. It took me well over a year to really get to grips with it. I find it's one of those pieces that needs using regularly, otherwise you forget it's various button combos and other foibles.

One day Cirklon, you will be mine...

[tIB]

A couple of bits here from this evening- I just wanted to hammer something out quick that was very much my style to see if I could get it doing what I want... it can, and then some!

[s]http://soundcloud.com/t1b/cirk-one[/s]

Its also got me looking at my little buchla system and for the first time not really fretting over what's next- the amount of control it allows in tandem with the 225e is incredible. I did some wonky buchla only stuff through a ton of reverb here, I didnt even use the 266e!

[s]http://soundcloud.com/t1b/cirk-two[/s]

[zapp550]

Enjoyable tracks, and glad to hear you're getting along with your cirklon.

[Krispy]

Thanks for this tIB...I have a Cirklon due this month. Really looking forward to getting stuck in.

[randomseed]

One thing no body has metioned.

Recording of external cv into the cirklon for playback............
made my head explode personally.


I've only had mine for about two weeks and I already wonder how I got anything done before it.

As a centerpiece in a hardware studio I do not belive it has an equal.

[tIB]

^ After just a few days I agree- hub!

ANd I didnt know about the CV recording... mind blown... again!

[Ekofisk]

[sydilaxe]

Maybe I don't quite get the Cirklon, but is it more than a step sequencer? How does the linear sequencing aspect work (is it similar to an MPC, RS7000, or AMT8)? Can you record keyboard lines or played melodic lines? Can these be then be requantized, transposed, etc.?

[Ekofisk]

Yes.

[revtor]

Cirklon can create (or record) two types of sequences. Each track can be either a "P3" or a "CK" sequence.

P3 sequences which are like traditional analog/xox/step sequencers.. essentially monophonic.

and then there are CK sequences which are more like piano roll, or drumgrid.. these can be polyphonic/chords etc..

But these can both get way twisted, filled, stripped, chopped, morphed, etc.. Take big grains of salt with these simplistic descriptions because yes, minds are going to continue to blow for decades with this machine.

and yeah both MIDI and/or CV on any of the above.

[sydilaxe]

It seems like a great sequencer. I am assuming that the CK sequences can be unquantized. I am very happy with my RS7000 right now, but if I were to replace it, this would be first on the list.

[revtor]

well, every sequencer has a minimum sized step it quantizes everything to, so essentially everything recorded is quantized. Not sure the specs on Cirk for this..

[sydilaxe]

Yeah, ppq.

The Cirklon is very enticing (especially the individual midi IOs). How easy is it to mute tracks on the fly? I spent a little time reading through the manual, but I couldn't find this. I am assuming it is a button combination.

I really like my RS as a hardware sequencer (I never use the sampling side of it). However, it leaves a little to be desired as a step sequencer (mostly, the knobs per step).

[Ekofisk]

When on the track page, muting tracks is as easy as pressing the trakc you want to mute's corresponding button (the 909-style buttons). Access tracks 17-32 by pressing the BAR key (I think).

[magnetize]

had a p3 back in the day, amazing features but very steep to use (for me!). good to see colin still going & refining his brilliant work. uzwerg is the limit of my mental ability sequence-wise

[slaughterhousesam]

anybody got any idea how the waiting lists are going for the cirklon, and what the vague ballpark wait is?

mailed colin but no response so far, guess hes being kept in the basement with his soldering iron

[Christopher Winkels]

I asked to be put on the waiting list a couple of weeks ago. Colin's wife got back to me (he was, as you suggested, busy with the assembly of a current run), but it took about a week to hear from anyone. Nothing will ship until the first quarter of 2013, apparently.

No worries. The more I read, the more I'm taken with the Cirklon.

[slaughterhousesam]

irresistable.......argh!!

now im on the list as well

[tIB]

[Clockgate]

I have just ordered a Cirklon with the CV option and eurorack breakout box. I have been quoted approximately 8 months for delivery, which is good as it gives me time to figure out what I'm going to sell to pay for it.
It really does seem like every sequencer I ever wanted rolled into one.

[lionelfischer]

can someone elaborate on the recording features

[7hz]

[lionelfischer]

sorry i think i misinterpreted something earlier, it only records voltage, not audio as well, correct ?

[7hz]

It doesn't record audio nor 'voltage'.

Inputs are 5 x Midi and 1 x Midi over USB, outputs are 5 x Midi and 1 x Midi over USB, and a Roland sync out. There is also a CV out option that provides 16 CV and 8 gate outputs.

There is a yet-to-be-developed feature that lets the gates act as CV inputs. so it is a possibility that it will be able to record voltage in the future.

It can also output drum triggers using the Sync socket plus a small circuit, but this is not in production yet.

[metallum]

Should I go for Cirklon if I have OT and qmidi?
Tough question for me...sequentix is sexy..but expensive..:(

[Zenn]

[magnetize]

[tIB]

^ conversely I much prefer the cirklon for sequencing and havent used the midi machines on the OT since getting it (the cirklon). The only time Id use the OT's MIDI again was for sequencer control of the arp.

Despite some concerns before buying, the cirklon has eased its way to the centre of my setup- its a terrific machine.

[Krispy]

[Rozzer]

Track muting works regardless of whether you're using P3 or CK pattern on that track. In pattern edit mode, the buttons mute whichever row you have selected.

[Rozzer]

[magnetize]