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ES-4 with macbook pro
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Expert Sleepers Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author ES-4 with macbook pro
os
Yes, it will work, but due to the 8 bit resolution of the DACs the tuning from a software-calibrated output is not quite as accurate as you'd get from, say, an ES-3.

Just to avoid confusion: the tuning from the hardware-calibrated outputs (1 & 2) is entirely accurate.
The Asterism
Great, thanks for clarifying that OS, I think I'll have to pick up some kind of ADAT interface and go for ES3, as it's the polyphony that I'm after.

I've managed to get 3 oscs working (after a lot of fiddling about) via a borrowed MOTU 828, using the software, but ES3 and ADAT seems like a more elegant option.
os
os wrote:
Found this too:

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/M2-Tech-Hi-Face-USB-to-S/PDIF-Converter/p roduct_5350

Just for kicks, I bought one of these & tried it out.

It works fine. I can't really recommend it for DAW use though, as the drivers seem to have an astounding amount of latency.

It did turn up one interesting fact though - the ES-4 does in fact work at 192kHz. I've always assumed that it would, but have never been able to test it before.
os
xandersingh wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-S-PDIF-Digital-audio-signal-converter-Hifi -/230639224710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b32b4786#ht_6854wt_139 8

this also seems cheap enough to take a chance on :-)

Got one of these too (eventually - delivery took an age). Works fine, and for $19.99 what's not to like (apart from the USB 1.1 restrictions).

s o l v e n t
I just wanted to add something to this thread, and by doing so I don't mean to offer this as anything conclusive, but something people may want to investigate/consider if they plan to use Expert Sleepers modules:

Personally, I had no luck getting my ES-4 to work reliably running from an aggregate device - I got all sorts of jitters, missed notes, and crashes.

Alternately, if I ran everything from 1 audio interface, everything was smooth. I had an ES-3 + ES-4 + 8 channels of audio running smoothly from a MOTU 828 as my sole sound card, for example.

But, as my main sound card is an Allen & Heath Zed R16, which does have ADAT out but no SPDIF, I've had to abandon the idea of running an ES-4 alongside my ES-3. I spent a lot of time troubleshooting with different aggregate soundcards (Motu 828, PreSonus Firebox, + Mac's built-in SPDIF with the appropriate convertor cables/boxes), different computers (an iMac + a MacBook - both running Snow Leopard), and different DAWs (Live, Logic, and Numerology). I also tried running the 828 as my main interface, with the Presonus as an aggregate, just to see if it was only Allen & Heath's drivers that were to blame. In all cases and configurations the ES modules did not output reliable signals when running off of an aggregate device.

Perhaps some more troubleshooting could've solved things but personally I had put too much time into it already and need to get on with making music.

I did post on this forum asking if anyone has successfully run ES modules from an aggregate device -- no one responded, so I'm not sure that anyone has managed to achieve contrary results to mine.

I understand that these things are not Expert Sleeper's issues - they are driver issues - or Mac issues - or something... whatever the issues are, I think people should be aware that running ES modules off of aggregate devices may be problematic.

Hope I'm wrong, as I would love to run more ES modules from my A&H sound card at some point!

Jason
MrBiggs
I'd like to know if by "aggregate" devices you mean a second interface/soundcard, like the setup you describe Jason, or a device like those described in the rest of the thread -- namely the cheap converters people are using to drive an ES4 from their Mac's digital/headphone outputs?

Furthermore, I'd also like to know from you folks who are using these little Toslink/SPDIF converters how it's working. I'm considering replacing my MOTU Ultralite with a Firewire mixer that does not have the multiple analog nor SPDIF digital out that the Ultralite has. This means if I want to use Silent Way I'll need to find another way. This thread has perked my interest. It would be fantastic to run a cable from my Mac to an Es-4.
One specific question is if I have a soundcard chosen as my output in, say, Ableton, how would one choose the ES4 or Mac's digital output on a channel? I'm fairly certain Ableton doesn't recognize more than one audio output at a time.
os
This is the purpose of Aggregate Devices. You set up an Aggregate containing multiple audio outputs (e.g. your firewire mixer and your Mac's built-in output), and then tell Live to use the Aggregate as its output. As far as Live's concerned, it's just one big audio output, and OS X figures out what goes where under the hood.

E.g. say your mixer has 8 channels, and the built-in output has 2, then in Live you just use outputs 1-8 for the mixer and 9-10 for the ES-4.
chrisso
So far I've had good results with an ES4 through an aggregate device (Lynx Aurora and iMac output), using Logic.
I copied the set up Os described with a little toslink
to spdif converter.
I haven't strained the set up with elaborate Silent Way duties, but to play synth lines in tune and perfectly in time, I've got to say I haven't had any issues at all.
I just bought Ableton and haven't tried the aggregate device trick yet though.

One question.....
For reasons I don't need to go into, I'm thinking of working with an RME Babyface.
The RME has two main outputs (effectively), but up to ten more outputs via digital (SPDIF).
I can't tell what cable I would need to come out of the digital side of the RME with SPDIF then go into the ES4 front panel.
Can you help? See pic:
http://www.rme-audio.de/images/products/rme_babyface_2b.jpg
os
The Babyface has a TOSlink output, so if using it in S/PDIF mode you'd use an optical-to-coaxial converter, same as from a Mac's output.

The Babyface's output can work in ADAT mode too though, so you could connect an ES-3 for eight extra channels of output. You only get two extra channels of S/PDIF.
chrisso
Great thanks.
CW
MrBiggs
os wrote:
This is the purpose of Aggregate Devices. You set up an Aggregate containing multiple audio outputs (e.g. your firewire mixer and your Mac's built-in output), and then tell Live to use the Aggregate as its output. As far as Live's concerned, it's just one big audio output, and OS X figures out what goes where under the hood.

E.g. say your mixer has 8 channels, and the built-in output has 2, then in Live you just use outputs 1-8 for the mixer and 9-10 for the ES-4.


Thanks os. AFter a few days of thinking and reading, I believe I'll be getting a regular mixer, keeping the Ultralite after all and doing the ES3.
LoveBot
I'm thinking about picking up a new Macbook Pro, the Apogee Uno for budget high quality audio I/O, and the aforementioned adapters to convert the Mac's onboard sound output to S/PDIF in order to connect to the ES-4. I plan to use Ableton Live 8 and Silent Way. Does this sound like it will work? Cheers!
os
Should work, yes.
LoveBot
wonderful, thanks!
takacspeter
If i have ADAT on UAD Apollo and macbook pro as well than which es is better?
os
I'd always go for the ES-3 if you have the option.
HowMuchYaBench
Thanks for all the info in this thread. Looking at an ES3/4, so this was quite helpful.
helder
Hi,

First post here, looking into setting up jitter-free MIDI with Ableton with the Expert Sleepers system.

It was mentioned that using the MacBook Pro digital output would work but if you also output the audio from the computer you'll need an aggregate device, and this created problems for someone. Is this always the case? Have others found the same problem? Is it true for any setup?

Thanks.
cheapmachines
Just FYI the Fostex COP-1 converter between a Macbook Pro's optical out and the ES-4 seems to work fine. Not sure if they still make them but they show up on eBay fairly frequently:

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/archive_products/COP1_96k.shtm l

Mac > MiniToslink to Toslink cable > COP-1 > Coaxial S/PDIF cable > ES4

Question: Was curious to know if it's possible to use an ADC to take an analogue audio input and convert that into an S/PDIF signal that the ES4 understands. Picked up one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KNNSJ7K/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

But all it gives me is all the lights on the ES4/8CV pulsing very slightly. Anyone had any luck using an ADC like this?
os
That won't work. Why would you want to do that? Curious.
cheapmachines
I use a MOTU Microbook II interface when I'm doing live gigs.

http://klad.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MOTU-MicroBook-II-4.jp eg

It has an S/PDIF output but it always mirrors the main output channels, which is a nuisance as I want to sent audio to the main jack outputs and not have the signal intended for the ES4 in with it.

You can send a separate mix to the 3.5mm outputs (Line Out 3-4), so just wanted to see if I could use that with an ADC as a dedicated channel for the ES-4.

I also have the Ultralite plumbed in at home which has a separate S/PDIF I/O which works fine, just trying to find a work around for the Microbook.

Seems like a different interface is called for, or send the audio to 3/4, not use the main jack outputs and use the S/PDIF for the ES-4.
os
Quote:
Seems like a different interface is called for, or send the audio to 3/4, not use the main jack outputs and use the S/PDIF for the ES-4.

That would be my suggestion.
Limbertimbre
Microbook II is working great here after figuring out the channels are not what they seem in the Cue-Mix software.

Today I built my first modular synth (yay!) consisting of a Makenoise DPO and a Blue Lantern mini cobalt smelting lab. Main mix SPDIF is controlling the ES-40/ESX-CV8. Out 3/4 is the new Ableton Live master channel.

os is doing a fantastic job. This level of control in a DAW is delightful. Silent Way is great so far. Let the fast crazy psychedelic trance music commence!

This is fun!
hpmk
I am using an ES-40 module in conjuction with the ESX-8MD to handle all the sync in my studio.

My sound card is a Midas Venice F32 mixing console, which I aggregated with my internal MBPro digital output in order to send the digital audio data to the ES-40 module.

Everything seems to work charm, but randomly, everything stops and I have to check/uncheck Drift Correction under Audio Devices OS X Preferences to recover the sync.

I've tried ticking Drift Correction in both Midas and Internal devices, only in one of them and also ticking none of them. None of the options manage to work.

Is anyone else suffering from this issue?

Using Yosemite 10.10.1
os
Which of the two is the master? Unless you can word clock them (which you can't, with the internal audio), you'd want the device driving the ES-4 to be master.
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