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Eurorack panel for the Woodwind VCO?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Eurorack panel for the Woodwind VCO?
Bergfotron
What do you think of this panel layout? I'm not talking about the graphic design or the choice of knobs here, but rather the overall ergonomics and functionality.
Would you like a more compact panel or more spacing between the knobs?
Would you like more CV inputs?
Would you be interested in building this module if an Eurorack panel board became available?

The panel
Cat-A-Tonic
Bergfotron designs in production with panels for Euro DIYers?
Interested, Hell yes.

Knob spacing is generous, but decent.
Jack spacing is a bit on the tight side IMO, but perhaps OK.
Doepfer A-152 is the maximum vertical jack density I can stand.
The standard panel of 4MS RCD is too cramped for me.

What is KOV?
What is on Main Out?
Why the waveform select switch if you are also providing multiple outs?
I thought I read something about a fancy wave-shaping circuit built into this...

I generally prefer jacks and knobs to be positioned either:
- together side by side in relation to their functions, or
- knobs on top, jacks on bottom with as much functional relationship as possible.

Do the PW up/down functions widen the pulse width down (left) and up (right)?
Interesting to have 2 CVs related to separate characteristics of pulse width in any case.
Bergfotron
Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
Bergfotron designs in production with panels for Euro DIYers?
Interested, Hell yes.

Knob spacing is generous, but decent.
Jack spacing is a bit on the tight side IMO, but perhaps OK.
Doepfer A-152 is the maximum vertical jack density I can stand.
The standard panel of 4MS RCD is too cramped for me.

What is KOV?
What is on Main Out?
Why the waveform select switch if you are also providing multiple outs?
I thought I read something about a fancy wave-shaping circuit built into this...

I generally prefer jacks and knobs to be positioned either:
- together side by side in relation to their functions, or
- knobs on top, jacks on bottom with as much functional relationship as possible.

Do the PW up/down functions widen the pulse width down (left) and up (right)?
Interesting to have 2 CVs related to separate characteristics of pulse width in any case.


Some answers to your questions:

KOV = Keyboard Output Voltage = 1 oct/V CV input

The jack spacing is 12.5 mm. It's what I have on the old Bergfotron modules and it was necessary in order to fit all jacks in a row. The A-152 has nine jacks too, so the spacing should be the same on this.
The jacks need to be in a row, as they are going to be on a separate board, unless I can find 13 mm deep jack sockets that mount vertically on the board.
I would have preferred the jacks along the bottom, but that didn't fit.
One advantage with the chosen solution is that you can separate the jacks on their own 3 HP panel and mount all jacks in a separate area (see updated version of the graphics). That way, the patchcords will never obscure the knobs.

The PW up and down knobs contol the slope of the up and down ramps on the woodwind triangle. They also control the up and down pulses on the double pulse wave.

The Main out gives you the waveform that you have selected with the knob/CV. The Saw out is a separate output for the sawtooth wave.
rechner7
hmm - i like the topology of the cwejman layouts. regarding the distances i think it's quite optimal. in a vco-6 style you can place 9 pots and up to 12 jacks in 14te without being packed too dense. if you place the jacks below the pots you have no interference while tweaking the pots.
if you don't want to use smaller knobs, you could just place the jacks in the bottom of the module? just my humble but honest opinion. anyway, featurewise the vco looks awesome and i like the coloring of your design!
Bergfotron
rechner7 wrote:
hmm - i like the topology of the cwejman layouts. regarding the distances i think it's quite optimal. in a vco-6 style you can place 9 pots and up to 12 jacks in 14te without being packed too dense. if you place the jacks below the pots you have no interference while tweaking the pots.
if you don't want to use smaller knobs, you could just place the jacks in the bottom of the module? just my humble but honest opinion. anyway, featurewise the vco looks awesome and i like the coloring of your design!


The Cwejman VCO-6 has two rows of six jacks in a 14 HP module. That means around 11 mm jack spacing. That's tight!
I supppose I could do two rows of jacks too, but for technical reasons I would like to avoid it. How do you like the idea with a vertical jack field on a separate panel, so you can concentrate the jacks from all modules in a separate jack field or "patch bay" area?
regenbot
interested, yes.
rechner7
for me the distance of the cwejman layout is not too tight. but i have to admit that my hands are a little bit smaller than the (male) average. finally, it's a question of personal taste. there are a lot of user who welcome a more airy layout. for me space is an issue due to the portability of my system.

in general the break out for the jacks is nice idea, but i am afraid that one could loose the overview if there are more (many) modules with break-outs - assumed that the cores and the break outs are quite distant to each other.

it is possible to rotate the pcb in such a way that the jacks can be placed on the bottom (by the way which parts are pcb mounted? just the pots or both pots and jacks)?
Bergfotron
rechner7 wrote:
it is possible to rotate the pcb in such a way that the jacks can be placed on the bottom (by the way which parts are pcb mounted? just the pots or both pots and jacks)?


Not without making the module wider, since 9 jacks won't fit on a 20 HP module (unless you reduce the spacing).
The jacks will be mounted on a PCB that is at a right angle from the panel. This board will be connected with a short cable and connector to a board that is parallel with the panel. On the latter board, pots, switches and other parts are mounted.
PF
Im sorry for writing swedish....

Jag tycker att vco'n ser sjukt snygg ut, om den skulle ta mer hp skulle inte det vara något problem, jag gillar att man kan kontrollera så mycket som möjligt så om det går att cv styra allt så helt ok.... we're not worthy

Det jag skulle önska var att det fanns någon form av pcb + panel kit eller hela kits, men det är ett fulltids jobb att leta reda på alla komponenter... Dead Banana
Bergfotron
I might add that if the panel is 20 HP or wider, the AMORE board can be mounted parallel to the panel, which will make the entire module less than 40 mm thick (panel surface to back side). That would make some tasty tabletop designs possible.
Bergfotron
PF wrote:
Im sorry for writing swedish....

Jag tycker att vco'n ser sjukt snygg ut, om den skulle ta mer hp skulle inte det vara något problem, jag gillar att man kan kontrollera så mycket som möjligt så om det går att cv styra allt så helt ok.... we're not worthy

Det jag skulle önska var att det fanns någon form av pcb + panel kit eller hela kits, men det är ett fulltids jobb att leta reda på alla komponenter... Dead Banana


He said that he thinks the VCO looks very good and he doesn't mind if it uses up more HPs. He likes to contol everything and wants CV control of as much as possible. Finally, he says he wishes there was a kit with front panel and PCB but realizes this is a lot of work to produce.
3vcos
I'm still not sure why you need a switch for the main output. While it may not be possible, I'd much rather have some sort of attenuator for the VC waveform.
robotfunk
So you're making a euro compatible version of this module? That would be excellent news, do you plan to eurify any other of your designs?
Bergfotron
3vcos wrote:
I'm still not sure why you need a switch for the main output. While it may not be possible, I'd much rather have some sort of attenuator for the VC waveform.


It's just a quick way to mute the sound. Handy if you have several VCOs going and want to hear what each contribute to the composite sound. Or if you need to tune the other VCOs.
If you don't think you want it, you can just omit the switch.
Bergfotron
robotfunk wrote:
So you're making a euro compatible version of this module? That would be excellent news, do you plan to eurify any other of your designs?


Actually, it's just a front end for the board, to make it into a euro compatible module.
At the moment I'm doing a feasibility study. If that turns out positive, I'll first design a front panel board for this module and then possibly for other modules.
rechner7
do you plan to use spacer bolts for mounting the pcb? this one, right?
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/vco_woodwind.html

maybe you can put just the pots and the jacks on a 'sandwiched' 2nd board? doing so you're totally free in placing the parts.
3vcos
Ok. I really think most people would have more use for an attenuator for the variable waveform.


Bergfotron wrote:
3vcos wrote:
I'm still not sure why you need a switch for the main output. While it may not be possible, I'd much rather have some sort of attenuator for the VC waveform.


It's just a quick way to mute the sound. Handy if you have several VCOs going and want to hear what each contribute to the composite sound. Or if you need to tune the other VCOs.
If you don't think you want it, you can just omit the switch.
Bergfotron
3vcos wrote:
Ok. I really think most people would have more use for an attenuator for the variable waveform.


Attenuators should be at the inputs, not at the outputs.
Bergfotron
rechner7 wrote:
do you plan to use spacer bolts for mounting the pcb? this one, right?
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/vco_woodwind.html

maybe you can put just the pots and the jacks on a 'sandwiched' 2nd board? doing so you're totally free in placing the parts.


Yeah, that's basically how I plan to do it. However, the jacks have to go on a separate board, as I have not found any jacks that mount vertically on the board.
rechner7
what about of putting two rows of jacks on the bottom? each jack row has its own small pcb with multipin connector. on the bottom you could use two longer spacer for mounting the vco-pcb. the pots and 'their' (sandwiched) pcb are mounted by fixating each of it with a nut on the frontpanel. the spacers on top can be mounted to the pot-pcb.
maybe i would omit the mute switch for the output. i think muting can done best on the mixing-side (there are already at least one euro-mixer released which offer a mute option and i am sure that there are more released in future).

is the wave-shape selector/pot a rotary switch or a conventional pot?
3vcos
Obviously, but thats not what I meant. The cv input for the vc waveform should pass through an attenuator (what you said).


Bergfotron wrote:
3vcos wrote:
Ok. I really think most people would have more use for an attenuator for the variable waveform.


Attenuators should be at the inputs, not at the outputs.
Bergfotron
3vcos wrote:
Obviously, but thats not what I meant. The cv input for the vc waveform should pass through an attenuator (what you said).


OK, now I see what you mean.
Well, I thought about that. But an additional knob would make the module 30 mm wider. And how often would you use that feature? You can always patch in an external attenuator if you really need it. And if you control the waveform selector from a sequencer, you just set the desired voltage on the sequencer.
Bergfotron
rechner7 wrote:
what about of putting two rows of jacks on the bottom? each jack row has its own small pcb with multipin connector. on the bottom you could use two longer spacer for mounting the vco-pcb. the pots and 'their' (sandwiched) pcb are mounted by fixating each of it with a nut on the frontpanel. the spacers on top can be mounted to the pot-pcb.
maybe i would omit the mute switch for the output. i think muting can done best on the mixing-side (there are already at least one euro-mixer released which offer a mute option and i am sure that there are more released in future).

is the wave-shape selector/pot a rotary switch or a conventional pot?


I'll have to do some drawing to see how everything fits. Of course I can do two rows of jacks but it will make the board behind the panel smaller, which might create lack of space for parts.
The wave-shape selector is an ordinary pot, just like any CV pot.
mono-poly
Euro would be awesome if you redesign the panel to work on +12 -12 volt.
I rather see the minjacks underneath the knobs to be honnest.
Bergfotron
mono-poly wrote:
Euro would be awesome if you redesign the panel to work on +12 -12 volt.
I rather see the minjacks underneath the knobs to be honnest.


The modules will still need +15, +10 and -15 volts since the AMORE-boards themselves are unchanged.
And I kinda dig the idea with the detachable vertical jack field. We'll see...
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