MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Frac Wiard NR Clock In Mod? (Details inside)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author Frac Wiard NR Clock In Mod? (Details inside)
jenamu6
Oh....and the real funny/strange thing is......the out of the 7555 clock generator doesn't look like it's connected?????
Norman_Phay
I guess the only smart way to do this would be to buy a used eu one and trace it/compare it. This isn't just me that finds this all rather annoying is it?
mono-poly
Maybe Sandy/Babaluma still got pictures?
sandyb
here's the picture i sent gregg.




i've just pm'd a wiggler who knows his electronics really well to see if he'd be willing to look at my module if i send it to him and figure out the mod so that everyone who wants to can do it themselves. i'll let you know if this idea works out.
rezzn8r
we're not worthy thanks, Sandy! You're awsome SlayerBadger!
Mood Organ
I am watching this thread with baited breath.

Am I right in thinking that the mod currently being discussed would allow clock-in but break the clock-out?
sandyb
Mood Organ wrote:
I am watching this thread with baited breath.

Am I right in thinking that the mod currently being discussed would allow clock-in but break the clock-out?


no. it means adding a switch that turns the "ext rate" input into a "clock in" input.
Mood Organ
That is perfect. My fault, I must have misunderstood an earlier post.
jenamu6
Thanks again Sandy....I'll be studying this picture tomorrow.
Too bad about the whit blob.

Hope the plan with your friend works out.
solitaryzen
sandyb wrote:


i've just pm'd a wiggler who knows his electronics really well to see if he'd be willing to look at my module if i send it to him and figure out the mod so that everyone who wants to can do it themselves. i'll let you know if this idea works out.


Thanks so much for that Sandy!
DGTom
jenamu6 wrote:
Oh....and the real funny/strange thing is......the out of the 7555 clock generator doesn't look like it's connected?????


what is happening is pin 2 of the 555 is going to the nearby 074 which, I assume / it looks like, is configured as a comparator
[edit: yep, the non-inverting input is connected to a pair of nearby resistors between +ve & gnd. . . I'll have to plug it in to measure the voltage here] the output goes thru the diode which is pointing away from the 074 towards the 555 all the way over to the expansion header & over to the 4015 / output**

This is all hidden by the goop in sandybs pic & I can't take my (6 jack version) apart without removing a load of goop first, but, this appears to be where the mod takes place.

The trace from 555 pin#2 -> 074 pin#9 is cut & an internal signal is processed by the 074 comparator.

I'm assuming the goop on sandybs is holding the wires from the switch, wires from the cut trace & maybe a couple of resistors together because I think all you should need is a 1K / 100K to ground from the new clock In jack (via the switch) altho sticking a wire to the panel from pin#2 of the 555 might mess with the timer. . . so maybe there is a transistor or an op-amp in there hmmm.....

Either way, I think you should repair the trace you've cut, I assume over near the 4015? To get it back to stock for now as the best spot for this mod is really over by the 555 / 074. Its tight but it should be doable.

** @jenamu6 one reason your diode into the 4015 may not be working is there is a voltage divider at the clock output, which will be interacting with whatever you are putting your signal thru (I think)

I need to figure out how to take this thing apart & where to put the extra socket / switch, I already have an added noise out & data recirc toggle (and bananas of course) I might just make the clock out the Ramp from expansion header & patch program for internal clocking hmmm..... hmmm.....

( hopefully my netbook will quit crahing every 5 mins as well... but I doubt it waah )
jenamu6
Wow.....we might be getting somewhere here.

Thanks DGTom.....would it help if I put a picture up of mine......it doesn't have the white blob?
sabasan
thank
go to check my noisering... I wanted the same mod for a long time
sandyb
a quick update.

i'm sending my noisering over to Tim Stinchcombe tomorrow.

he has very kindly agreed to have a look under the gloop and see how the mod is achieved.

myself and/or Tim will post in this thread once he's had time to have a look and see what's what.

sandy
Babaluma
great news, thanks sandy! don't own a noise ring any more, but this was always the only thing bothering me about it! let hope tim can sort it out, good luck!
DGTom
applause

thanks sandy! can't wait to find out what is inside the goo screaming goo yo

just one operational question about your mod, when external clocking, it sounds like the clock out keeps outputting the internal clock & you can still control it via the rate pot as per usual?

Yours appears to have a ceramic cap next to the noise level trim mine doesn't as well.

I think to get mine working the way I want I'm just going to piggyback a little cct. onto the expansion slot (mine has a DIP16 socket already installed into it) I really want mine to work as a VC Clock, Shift Register & noise source all at once.

Here are a couple of pics of my un-modded, jack version. I have larger versions if anyone needs them.

It would appear that the PCBs are the same for both versions.
jenamu6
sandyb wrote:
a quick update.

i'm sending my noisering over to Tim Stinchcombe tomorrow.

he has very kindly agreed to have a look under the gloop and see how the mod is achieved.

myself and/or Tim will post in this thread once he's had time to have a look and see what's what.

sandy



YEAAAAHHHH I love you guys.
And I'm very glad I kept kicking this thread.
Norman_Phay
This sounds pretty great! Thank you Sandy and Tim.
sandyb
DGTom wrote:

just one operational question about your mod, when external clocking, it sounds like the clock out keeps outputting the internal clock & you can still control it via the rate pot as per usual?


ah - i think i gave the wrong impression a couple of posts back.

using an external clock in disables both the rate and ext rate knobs. the external clock in is mirrored at the clock out jack.

i actually like it this way as i have two noiserings. i can use one as the master and use it's rate and ext rate knobs/cv to control both noiserings.
Mood Organ
sandyb wrote:
i actually like it this way as i have two noiserings. i can use one as the master and use it's rate and ext rate knobs/cv to control both noiserings.


Exactly! That's what I want! Cool that it works.

It also seems like it would be useful to have extremely slow rates... just ping the NR with a gate occasionally.
DGTom
sandyb wrote:
using an external clock in disables both the rate and ext rate knobs. the external clock in is mirrored at the clock out jack.


aahh, thanks. That makes sense of the number of wires that are running between the goop & the switch.

I'm assuming it clocks on the positive edge (transition from low to high) as well so I think the switch must flip the inputs to the comparator around.


@Mood Organ I have been clocking mine from the gate out of a CTL1 touch controller, its really nice to play a duet with the noise ring love

wish I'd gotten around to it earlier, thanks for the kick jenamu6!
dude
i have no stake in this thread but i love reading about this stuff! you guys are awesome and i hope you all get your noiserings to do exactly what you want. the clock in is really wonderful when you need it!!!
Tim Stinchcombe
OK, so having examined sandyb's modules in some detail, I now understand what the mod is and how it works, so this post will give a brief idea of what it does and what will be involved in performing the mod oneself, and also ask some questions to gauge the best way to do it (because, as always, there are a multitude of choices!).

As noted earlier in the thread, the output pin of the 555 isn't actually used; the timing cap is fed to a comparator (also as already noted), and the comparator out is the clock. The other input of the comparator is a simple resistive divider, so that the clock switches at mid-rail: the mod feeds the external clock into the comparator instead of the 555's timing cap, and thus the resistive divider needs 'lowering' so that the external clock doesn't need to have an unrealistically high amplitude - this is what is lurking in the big gob of heat glue:



The two take-offs from the divider give the original voltage and a lowered value for the mod. The thin red and green wires hook the wee little board to rail and ground.

The mod thus consists of:
- cutting a track
- removing 2 resistors
- drilling a hole and inserting a 2-pole change-over switch
- adding a few resistors and a load of hook-up wire

The hardest part for most people will undoubtedly be the removing of the two 0603-sized surface mount resistors, the two central ones here:



One wire is also soldered to one of the empty pads where the 2 resistors met, and another needs to be soldered to one end of another resistor (above the 555, slightly out of shot).

The 'ext rate' socket doubles as the 'clock in' when the mod is switched in.

On sandyb's modded module, one of the wires to be added is soldered into the unpopulated 'EXP' IC socket footprint in the middle of the board - however on his unmodded one, there is actually a DIP socket in place. This presents something of a dilemma - the socket conveniently also includes the positive rail voltage and ground, and so would make a great place to add the resistive chain, using ordinary leaded resistors, but of course doing so would immediately preclude using the socket for its intended use. I've only skimmed the thread where the expander seems to have been mentioned, so how realistic is it that people will want to hook one into their Noisering and still have/want the clock-in mod?

If the socket is there, then one could bodge the mod components onto a second socket, and simply insert into the one on the board, which would not be as permanent, nor as flexible, but certainly less 'intrusive' to the board. Alternatively I could seek other locations for hooking into, but that might mean adding more wires onto the ends of surface mount components (not impossible, but depends on having a nice fine-tipped soldering iron and an increased level of skill with it!).

Another alternative would be to leave the existing resistive divider in place, but to switch a resistor to be in parallel with the lower one, to lower the voltage for the mod, but this would mean yet more fiddly adding wire to SMT pads, though it would have the advantage of not having to actually remove any components, which always brings the possibility of ripping off pads with it. I think I will mull this way over a bit more, as it might be better in the long run!

More to follow! (Oh, and whilst I'm here, to save me looking it up, is frac +/-15V or +/-12V?)

Tim
sandyb
we're not worthy

frac is +/-15V Tim.

thank you so much for all your thoughts so far. i think that frac people may well want to have the clock in mod and an expander as it doesn't offer this facility. euro noiserings have the clock in as standard.
jenamu6
Wow......I'm gonna read that again when I'm fully awake.

Thanks so far Tim......If I can handle it, I think I might go for the piggybag option, since mine has the dip socket.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Page 2 of 4
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group