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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Frac Wiard NR Clock In Mod? (Details inside)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules  
Author Frac Wiard NR Clock In Mod? (Details inside)
rezzn8r
Has it only been done once in Frac-land?
I would love to have clock in on my Noise Ring
Anyone have additional details?
haricots
Rezz, check with Todd Fletcher.
solitaryzen
I'm very keen to have this mod as well. Anyone in Australia that could assist? Is Todd Fletcher the one from MFOS?
Mood Organ
help
solitaryzen
Mood Organ wrote:
help


Anybody? sad banana
Babaluma
someone once sent me a photo of their wiard 1200 NR that was modded for clock in by grant himself, i think, but you couldn't work out anything from the photo, it was a mess.
sandyb
Babaluma wrote:
someone once sent me a photo of their wiard 1200 NR that was modded for clock in by grant himself, i think, but you couldn't work out anything from the photo, it was a mess.


that was me!

i have a modded frac noisering that originally belonged to mono-poly. i don't know who did the modification but i'm sure mono-poly or Grant could shed some light on the details.
Babaluma
ah yes, thanks sandy! someone should pm monopoly or grant.
slow_riot
mono-poly told me Grant did the modification himself after m-p suggested/requested it. Apparantly he kept hold of the module for a little while for himself before it was sent back!

The pin outs are listed on the NR datasheet, they might shed some light?

Nothing in the Wiard Yahoo group?
rezzn8r
sandyb wrote:
Babaluma wrote:
someone once sent me a photo of their wiard 1200 NR that was modded for clock in by grant himself, i think, but you couldn't work out anything from the photo, it was a mess.


that was me!

i have a modded frac noisering that originally belonged to mono-poly. i don't know who did the modification but i'm sure mono-poly or Grant could shed some light on the details.


Mr. Green I'm green with envy. I'm guessing it could be the only one.

I emailed Wiard, but was informed it was not possible. Maybe I'll try Todd, or perhaps Mike @ Metalbox
Cat-A-Tonic
If one had schematics of the Frac and Euro versions,
it should be possible to figure out.

If you could examine a Euro Noise Ring PCB it might help.
Mood Organ
Grant's not into doing this mod. I asked him about it a couple of months ago.
jenamu6
I would like to do this mod to my frac ring.......any clue?...anyone?
jenamu6
Anybody ......please.
Schematics, maybe I can figure it out myself.
rezzn8r
I got a reply from Carrie @ Wiard saying that they wouldn't do it. She suggested I get a euro one from Josh.
Might be easier to convert a euro one to 15V frac? seriously, i just don't get it
Although if going the conversion route, then could also add the Cybernetics Expander hyper
Mood Organ
Yeah, Wiard is totally not into doing this mod. I really don't want to get Euro just so I can get f#&*ing clock in on my NR.

.... wait, there's something called a Cybernetics Expander?!? WTF?
rezzn8r
Mood Organ wrote:


.... wait, there's something called a Cybernetics Expander?!? WTF?


hyper hyper hyper
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52569&start=all
hyper hyper hyper

there's talk of frac compatibility towards the end of the thread, too!
solitaryzen
Yeah, the lack of a clock in on the noise ring is really frustrating - it's the main reason it doesn't get used in a lot of my rhythmic patches...
jenamu6
I'm not gonna buy a fucking expander, just to have clock in.
Or buy an euro one?
Why for gods sake, I have a frac one.

Would be a nice gesture to existing clients to give some guidance.

It can't be that hard can it.

My theory:
The clock out jack is connect to clock in on the circuit board?
So if you follow that wire, you know where the clock goes in?
cut that trace......make switch for external clock or external via a diode?

Or am I just talking out of my ass now?
jenamu6
I've been looking at the pcb for half an hour.

I've found a 7555....probably the clock
I also followed the wire from the clock output. It's going straight to the clock input of the CD4015B Dual 4-stage Static Shift Register.

My guess is that when you cut the trace going to the clock-in of the CD4015B, put a switch(for banana) or a switching jack there.....you can override the clock.
Sounds plausible, doesn't it???
Mood Organ
hyper

Good luck, man. The fate of the empire rests in yr hands.

btw I don't think the expander adds clock-in, since it was designed for Euro & the Euro models already have clock-in. So the mod is still crucial for Frac.
jenamu6
Mood Organ wrote:
hyper
btw I don't think the expander adds clock-in, since it was designed for Euro & the Euro models already have clock-in. So the mod is still crucial for Frac.


Too bad, cause the Frac edition has an expander port too......but I doubt very much there ever will be a frac expander.


Anybody has some ideas about my theory, of cutting the trace of the clock in of the shift register? (please Grant......shed some light in this darkness.)
rezzn8r
jenamu6 wrote:
the Frac edition has an expander port too.....


cool. I keep meaning to pull mine out of the rack to see if it was there.
BugBrand
The most important thing - don't feed any negative voltages into the 4015 input. A 0 to +10V clock signal should work - you need something that goes over V+/2 (ie. +7.5V)
jenamu6
I tried injecting a clock into the clock in off the 4015....it kind of works.

I did cut the trace and then connected a clock wire to the clock in.
The external clock does work.....but is still influenced by the internal clock

At least the leds are influenced......have tried the cv out yet(didn't have time this morning)

It might be that it does work, but for visual feedback, a trace before the led driver needs to be cut.

Damn......please schematics please.
jenamu6
Oh....and the real funny/strange thing is......the out of the 7555 clock generator doesn't look like it's connected?????
Norman_Phay
I guess the only smart way to do this would be to buy a used eu one and trace it/compare it. This isn't just me that finds this all rather annoying is it?
mono-poly
Maybe Sandy/Babaluma still got pictures?
sandyb
here's the picture i sent gregg.




i've just pm'd a wiggler who knows his electronics really well to see if he'd be willing to look at my module if i send it to him and figure out the mod so that everyone who wants to can do it themselves. i'll let you know if this idea works out.
rezzn8r
we're not worthy thanks, Sandy! You're awsome SlayerBadger!
Mood Organ
I am watching this thread with baited breath.

Am I right in thinking that the mod currently being discussed would allow clock-in but break the clock-out?
sandyb
Mood Organ wrote:
I am watching this thread with baited breath.

Am I right in thinking that the mod currently being discussed would allow clock-in but break the clock-out?


no. it means adding a switch that turns the "ext rate" input into a "clock in" input.
Mood Organ
That is perfect. My fault, I must have misunderstood an earlier post.
jenamu6
Thanks again Sandy....I'll be studying this picture tomorrow.
Too bad about the whit blob.

Hope the plan with your friend works out.
solitaryzen
sandyb wrote:


i've just pm'd a wiggler who knows his electronics really well to see if he'd be willing to look at my module if i send it to him and figure out the mod so that everyone who wants to can do it themselves. i'll let you know if this idea works out.


Thanks so much for that Sandy!
DGTom
jenamu6 wrote:
Oh....and the real funny/strange thing is......the out of the 7555 clock generator doesn't look like it's connected?????


what is happening is pin 2 of the 555 is going to the nearby 074 which, I assume / it looks like, is configured as a comparator
[edit: yep, the non-inverting input is connected to a pair of nearby resistors between +ve & gnd. . . I'll have to plug it in to measure the voltage here] the output goes thru the diode which is pointing away from the 074 towards the 555 all the way over to the expansion header & over to the 4015 / output**

This is all hidden by the goop in sandybs pic & I can't take my (6 jack version) apart without removing a load of goop first, but, this appears to be where the mod takes place.

The trace from 555 pin#2 -> 074 pin#9 is cut & an internal signal is processed by the 074 comparator.

I'm assuming the goop on sandybs is holding the wires from the switch, wires from the cut trace & maybe a couple of resistors together because I think all you should need is a 1K / 100K to ground from the new clock In jack (via the switch) altho sticking a wire to the panel from pin#2 of the 555 might mess with the timer. . . so maybe there is a transistor or an op-amp in there hmmm.....

Either way, I think you should repair the trace you've cut, I assume over near the 4015? To get it back to stock for now as the best spot for this mod is really over by the 555 / 074. Its tight but it should be doable.

** @jenamu6 one reason your diode into the 4015 may not be working is there is a voltage divider at the clock output, which will be interacting with whatever you are putting your signal thru (I think)

I need to figure out how to take this thing apart & where to put the extra socket / switch, I already have an added noise out & data recirc toggle (and bananas of course) I might just make the clock out the Ramp from expansion header & patch program for internal clocking hmmm..... hmmm.....

( hopefully my netbook will quit crahing every 5 mins as well... but I doubt it waah )
jenamu6
Wow.....we might be getting somewhere here.

Thanks DGTom.....would it help if I put a picture up of mine......it doesn't have the white blob?
sabasan
thank
go to check my noisering... I wanted the same mod for a long time
sandyb
a quick update.

i'm sending my noisering over to Tim Stinchcombe tomorrow.

he has very kindly agreed to have a look under the gloop and see how the mod is achieved.

myself and/or Tim will post in this thread once he's had time to have a look and see what's what.

sandy
Babaluma
great news, thanks sandy! don't own a noise ring any more, but this was always the only thing bothering me about it! let hope tim can sort it out, good luck!
DGTom
applause

thanks sandy! can't wait to find out what is inside the goo screaming goo yo

just one operational question about your mod, when external clocking, it sounds like the clock out keeps outputting the internal clock & you can still control it via the rate pot as per usual?

Yours appears to have a ceramic cap next to the noise level trim mine doesn't as well.

I think to get mine working the way I want I'm just going to piggyback a little cct. onto the expansion slot (mine has a DIP16 socket already installed into it) I really want mine to work as a VC Clock, Shift Register & noise source all at once.

Here are a couple of pics of my un-modded, jack version. I have larger versions if anyone needs them.

It would appear that the PCBs are the same for both versions.
jenamu6
sandyb wrote:
a quick update.

i'm sending my noisering over to Tim Stinchcombe tomorrow.

he has very kindly agreed to have a look under the gloop and see how the mod is achieved.

myself and/or Tim will post in this thread once he's had time to have a look and see what's what.

sandy



YEAAAAHHHH I love you guys.
And I'm very glad I kept kicking this thread.
Norman_Phay
This sounds pretty great! Thank you Sandy and Tim.
sandyb
DGTom wrote:

just one operational question about your mod, when external clocking, it sounds like the clock out keeps outputting the internal clock & you can still control it via the rate pot as per usual?


ah - i think i gave the wrong impression a couple of posts back.

using an external clock in disables both the rate and ext rate knobs. the external clock in is mirrored at the clock out jack.

i actually like it this way as i have two noiserings. i can use one as the master and use it's rate and ext rate knobs/cv to control both noiserings.
Mood Organ
sandyb wrote:
i actually like it this way as i have two noiserings. i can use one as the master and use it's rate and ext rate knobs/cv to control both noiserings.


Exactly! That's what I want! Cool that it works.

It also seems like it would be useful to have extremely slow rates... just ping the NR with a gate occasionally.
DGTom
sandyb wrote:
using an external clock in disables both the rate and ext rate knobs. the external clock in is mirrored at the clock out jack.


aahh, thanks. That makes sense of the number of wires that are running between the goop & the switch.

I'm assuming it clocks on the positive edge (transition from low to high) as well so I think the switch must flip the inputs to the comparator around.


@Mood Organ I have been clocking mine from the gate out of a CTL1 touch controller, its really nice to play a duet with the noise ring love

wish I'd gotten around to it earlier, thanks for the kick jenamu6!
dude
i have no stake in this thread but i love reading about this stuff! you guys are awesome and i hope you all get your noiserings to do exactly what you want. the clock in is really wonderful when you need it!!!
Tim Stinchcombe
OK, so having examined sandyb's modules in some detail, I now understand what the mod is and how it works, so this post will give a brief idea of what it does and what will be involved in performing the mod oneself, and also ask some questions to gauge the best way to do it (because, as always, there are a multitude of choices!).

As noted earlier in the thread, the output pin of the 555 isn't actually used; the timing cap is fed to a comparator (also as already noted), and the comparator out is the clock. The other input of the comparator is a simple resistive divider, so that the clock switches at mid-rail: the mod feeds the external clock into the comparator instead of the 555's timing cap, and thus the resistive divider needs 'lowering' so that the external clock doesn't need to have an unrealistically high amplitude - this is what is lurking in the big gob of heat glue:



The two take-offs from the divider give the original voltage and a lowered value for the mod. The thin red and green wires hook the wee little board to rail and ground.

The mod thus consists of:
- cutting a track
- removing 2 resistors
- drilling a hole and inserting a 2-pole change-over switch
- adding a few resistors and a load of hook-up wire

The hardest part for most people will undoubtedly be the removing of the two 0603-sized surface mount resistors, the two central ones here:



One wire is also soldered to one of the empty pads where the 2 resistors met, and another needs to be soldered to one end of another resistor (above the 555, slightly out of shot).

The 'ext rate' socket doubles as the 'clock in' when the mod is switched in.

On sandyb's modded module, one of the wires to be added is soldered into the unpopulated 'EXP' IC socket footprint in the middle of the board - however on his unmodded one, there is actually a DIP socket in place. This presents something of a dilemma - the socket conveniently also includes the positive rail voltage and ground, and so would make a great place to add the resistive chain, using ordinary leaded resistors, but of course doing so would immediately preclude using the socket for its intended use. I've only skimmed the thread where the expander seems to have been mentioned, so how realistic is it that people will want to hook one into their Noisering and still have/want the clock-in mod?

If the socket is there, then one could bodge the mod components onto a second socket, and simply insert into the one on the board, which would not be as permanent, nor as flexible, but certainly less 'intrusive' to the board. Alternatively I could seek other locations for hooking into, but that might mean adding more wires onto the ends of surface mount components (not impossible, but depends on having a nice fine-tipped soldering iron and an increased level of skill with it!).

Another alternative would be to leave the existing resistive divider in place, but to switch a resistor to be in parallel with the lower one, to lower the voltage for the mod, but this would mean yet more fiddly adding wire to SMT pads, though it would have the advantage of not having to actually remove any components, which always brings the possibility of ripping off pads with it. I think I will mull this way over a bit more, as it might be better in the long run!

More to follow! (Oh, and whilst I'm here, to save me looking it up, is frac +/-15V or +/-12V?)

Tim
sandyb
we're not worthy

frac is +/-15V Tim.

thank you so much for all your thoughts so far. i think that frac people may well want to have the clock in mod and an expander as it doesn't offer this facility. euro noiserings have the clock in as standard.
jenamu6
Wow......I'm gonna read that again when I'm fully awake.

Thanks so far Tim......If I can handle it, I think I might go for the piggybag option, since mine has the dip socket.
DGTom
we're not worthy Tim Stinchcombe we're not worthy

Thanks for doing this! I know alot of us will be getting way more use out of our Frac Noise Rings now.

If possible are you able to tell if there is an extra ceramic cap as part of the noise generator on SandyBs? In the first pic I posted compared to the one Sandy posted on page 2 there appears to be a through hole part kludged in. I can send a higher res pic if it helps any.
Tim Stinchcombe
DGTom wrote:
If possible are you able to tell if there is an extra ceramic cap as part of the noise generator on SandyBs? In the first pic I posted compared to the one Sandy posted on page 2 there appears to be a through hole part kludged in.
Yes, it is a 100nF replacing the SMT part on the board (so no real connection to the mod at all). The noise has two gain stages, that is the first, a non-inverting set-up of up to x500 gain (via the trimpot in the feedback loop) - the cap is between the reverse-biased e-b junction of an NPN transistor and the non-inverting input of the OA (plus a 1meg to ground). I can't get a reading in-circuit for the SMT part, but can for the 100n, so I suspect the standard fit is much smaller.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to look at this project for the last three evenings, as all my time has been spent trying to troubleshoot my bread-making machine (which is irritatingly making really flat loaves) - however I think I'm on the trail of the problem of that now, so later this evening I can run some simulations of the noise circuit and see what changing that cap does (my suspicions are that it may impact the 'colour' of the noise..?).

Tim
DGTom
Cool, thanks, fix the bread maker first tho! Flat loaves is almost worse than no bread at all.

I've noticed the noise out of mine is kind of "scratchy" (for lack of a better term) so I wondered if the added cap is there to address that in the 8 jack version.
jenamu6
sorry.....but machines don't make bread....people do.
Tim Stinchcombe
Have just got back round to looking at these modules, and the first thing I did having created a harness so that I could power them up, was to look at the spectra of the noise outs, to see if any difference showed up between the standard SMT cap fit (whatever value that might be), and Sandy's modified module which has a 100nF leaded-component there instead - the results are quite marked:



The one with the 100n is markedly louder, but that could be down to the trimpot setting (I didn't have much time to spend on it, and didn't look at the amplitude of the signal...). However just as marked is that the 100n cap seems to be broadening the bandwidth, making the spectrum much flatter out to a higher frequency. I can't replicate this in SPICE, but that doesn't entirely surprise me, as I suspect I need to carefully 'frig' the DC levels in the simulation to get decent results out of it (so I'll continue to think about it some more). And potentially Grant might be able to confirm this directly, if he is listening in!

Tim
sandyb
that's quite a difference Tim!
fracmonkey
jenamu6 wrote:
sorry.....but machines don't make bread....people do.


Is your yeast fresh? And is the yeast growing temp within spec?

OH, sorry I thought this was the breadmaking forum........ Mr. Green
Tim Stinchcombe
fracmonkey wrote:
Is your yeast fresh? And is the yeast growing temp within spec?
New yeast was first thing I tried, as I had already bought a new packet as old one running low - no change; then thought it wasn't getting up to heat properly, so increased it by lowering a resistor - this made it worse, so I suspect I was killing the yeast with too much heat; now think perhaps it is the flour - I use a supermarket brand, and it took ages to get it right in first place (wholemeal bread, experience suggests tricky in a breadmaker), so maybe they have changed suppliers; next step is a white loaf, which from memory was easier to get a decent loaf from. All started with a new breadpan (the old ones was absolutely knackered), and it appears it wasn't totally responsible for the crapness of the bread...
Tim Stinchcombe
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
The one with the 100n is markedly louder, but that could be down to the trimpot setting (I didn't have much time to spend on it, and didn't look at the amplitude of the signal...).
Well having now looked at the amplitudes, the reason for the difference in perceived loudness is due to the massively bigger signal on the modified module (the one with the changed cap):

- note the five times difference in the vertical scale!

I'm not sure what the effect on the obviously often-clipped larger signal will be on the spectrum, but in any case, having replicated the circuit on a small piece of breadboard, I doubt that is the issue - what is puzzling is the earlier drop-off on the module with the SMT cap. I also doubt that the addition of the leaded cap is necessarily to use a bigger one than the SMT cap - on my breadboard version, it needed to be about 100nF to stop the first op amp from oscillating (it clearly doesn't like the big impedances of the 1meg resistor and a smaller value cap!), and in any case the cap forms a low cut-off highpass effect with the 1meg, and increasing it just pushes this pole lower and lower, where its impact simply isn't seen (the Doepfer A-118 is quite a similar circuit, and the equivalent cap there is 2u2!).

I had to try about 8 or 9 transistors before I found one that had enough umph in it to get the output to saturate, and then adjusting the gain so that the output is either really weedy or is clipping produces a similar fairly flat spectrum to around 5kHz, then it rolls off, the only difference being how high or low the passband is, i.e. I have been unable to replicate nor account for the reason for the earlier drop-off of the module with the SMT cap. The chips are however a different make - the modded one is a TI TL074, the unmodded is an ST TL074 - but I doubt that could account for such a marked difference either. (There is also a resistor difference on the second gain stage of the modded module, giving that stage a gain of approx 45 as opposed to the other's of just 20, but all this will do is make it easier for the output signal to be clipped - the trimpots on both are around halfway.)

In short my conclusion is that deliberately changing that cap will have little to no impact on the noise output!

But all this is a diversion from the 'clock in' mod - I was going to do that this weekend, but my time has been severely 'fractured' due to unforeseen family matters (aren't they always), but hopefully I can get to do it during the week, and will publish a few pictures of what to do!

Tim
sandyb
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
...
In short my conclusion is that deliberately changing that cap will have little to no impact on the noise output!

But all this is a diversion from the 'clock in' mod - I was going to do that this weekend, but my time has been severely 'fractured' due to unforeseen family matters (aren't they always), but hopefully I can get to do it during the week, and will publish a few pictures of what to do!

Tim


cry i thought it gave the modded one super powers!

thanks for your time and effort on this so far Tim smile
Tim Stinchcombe
Well I agonized over several of the details as to how to do the mod for a couple of reasons: the original method requires the removal of two surface mount (0805-sized) resistors, and for those that have never done this before (I'm guessing this is likely a fairly high percentage of those that will want to do this...!?), there is a significant risk in damaging the board/pads/traces in doing so; secondly, whilst there is an easier way to achieve the same effect, this was going to make Sandy's modules behave ever-so-slightly differently (which if they were mine, would have bugged the hell out of me!). Thankfully the tactic of not rushing into things, and mulling everything over for a few evenings revealed there was a staring-me-in-the-face obvious solution to the 'compatability' problem between the two methods, so here is my slightly (I think) easier way of doing the mod. It requires two fewer resistors and not removing anything, though there is still (unavoidably) some tricky soldering required to hook directly-up to SMT components.

Bits needed are:
- an ultra-miniature two-pole changeover switch. I used the code FH99H one of these - click the 'specification' tab for the size
- a 10k and 24k resistor (though a 27k would do equally as well rather than 24)
- thin hook-up wire (I used Kynar, as used already for the factory-fitted mod)

Here is the circuit detail of the mod itself - the switch and everything to the left of it is new, the rest is existing:



First thing to do is remove the wire running between the 'aux out' socket and the 'ext rate' socket (damn - forgot to get a picture of this!). Also cut the track running between the 555 and the TL074 chips:


Then drill the hole for the switch - I drilled slightly down from center, so as to match Sandy's other modified module, and also so that the switch won't obscure the writing:


An unfortunate downside of this is that it leaves less space for the switch between the sockets, which have to be angled out to make the space. I cut and removed the ground wire running through the tabs on the sockets, the bottom pair can then be rotated to make enough space for the switch, then re-thread some new wire and re-soldered everything (note the last snap in this sequence is taken from the top!):


Solder a 24k resistor between the ground wire and the left-lower tab on the switch:


The 10k resistor goes between the right-lower switch tab and the 'ext rate' socket - I bent the unused 'switching contact' tab out of the way, and with careful bending of the resistor legs I reckon the whole lot is sufficiently placed (and rigid) so as not to cause any possible shorting hazards, but use insulating sleeving as you think fit:


Then cut and strip three suitable lengths of wire, and tag one each in turn, to: the two 100k resistors making the potential divider:


...the 1k resistor just above the 555 chip:


...and pin 9 of the TL074 chip (if you don't have an empty socket in the 'EXP' 16-pin DIL footprint in the middle of the board, this one can go to pin 10 there, if you like - beep it out with a continuity tester and you'll see it is the same place!):


Then attach the other ends of the wires to the switch, as shown:


That's it! Here is snap of the whole, though I have yet to add a gob of goop to tag the wires in place:


When the switch is down, it runs off the internal clock; when up, the clock supplied through the 'ext rate' socket drives it.

With the 24k resistor, the level at which the external signal clocks the module is approx 2.4V, which is close to that of the original modification; if you were to use a 27k instead, it creeps up a little to about 2.6V (i.e. not a big deal).

Hopefully I haven't forgotten anything, though perhaps it goes without saying you need a soldering iron with a very fine tip (mine is 0.4mm I think, and the shaft is narrow enough to manoeuvre between everything), and also a steady hand!

If you want higher res (though unannotated) photos, PM me; I also made up a gif of the original mod, so if anyone wants to see the difference I can post it...

Tim

[Edit record:
edit 1: the 'EXP' header is 16-pin, not 20! Don't know what happened to my counting there!]
sandyb
thank you so much Tim we're not worthy

i hope this will be useful for all the other frac noisering owners who want to modify their modules.
rezzn8r
You are awsome, Tim. Thank-you very much for your time and brainpower.
solitaryzen
Thanks so much Tim - fellow member Cleaninglady is going to perform this mod for me It's peanut butter jelly time!

I notice the mod was done on the 8 jack version - mine is the 6 jack version, but hopefully the above notes will still apply....?
otoskope
Wow! Thanks heaps. Will try to do this to my three bananafied noiserings. Shouldn't be too man changes because of the bananas, I guess?
It's peanut butter jelly time!
/palle
Tim Stinchcombe
solitaryzen wrote:
I notice the mod was done on the 8 jack version - mine is the 6 jack version, but hopefully the above notes will still apply....?
Well having had a quick look at the front panel of the 6-jack version on the wayback machine, it looks like the 2 extra jacks were the 'noise out' and the 'main out',

[edit: gack! shouldn't have relied on my memory, if only from lunchtime - found a bigger picture, and the extra jacks are noise and 'ext chance', hence following comments about the main out are a load of guff - but the philosophy of checking the circuit local to the clock remain!]

which shouldn't really affect the area of the clocking circuitry, but adding the 'main' out could potentially have been quite a big change, so I'd recommend comparing the tracking on yours to some of my close-up pictures - if it looks identical then you are probably safe; however if anything has changed, it would be wise to check that the circuitry on yours really is the same (it shouldn't be too hard, as all the action takes place around that one op amp section).

Tim
Tim Stinchcombe
otoskope wrote:
Will try to do this to my three bananafied noiserings. Shouldn't be too man changes because of the bananas, I guess?
I've never worked with banana jacks before: the only thing I think that might be different is if there is no 'switching contact' on the bananas (?), in which case it may mean you have no 'normalled' connection from the aux out to the ext in (the one I unfortunately forgot to take a photo of!), and therefore don't have to remove it! Should be easy to spot if it is actually there!

Tim
solitaryzen
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
solitaryzen wrote:
I notice the mod was done on the 8 jack version - mine is the 6 jack version, but hopefully the above notes will still apply....?
Well having had a quick look at the front panel of the 6-jack version on the wayback machine, it looks like the 2 extra jacks were the 'noise out' and the 'main out',

[edit: gack! shouldn't have relied on my memory, if only from lunchtime - found a bigger picture, and the extra jacks are noise and 'ext chance', hence following comments about the main out are a load of guff - but the philosophy of checking the circuit local to the clock remain!]

which shouldn't really affect the area of the clocking circuitry, but adding the 'main' out could potentially have been quite a big change, so I'd recommend comparing the tracking on yours to some of my close-up pictures - if it looks identical then you are probably safe; however if anything has changed, it would be wise to check that the circuitry on yours really is the same (it shouldn't be too hard, as all the action takes place around that one op amp section).

Tim


Thanks Tim - will have a good look before proceeding!
jenamu6
Thanks Tim.....Now I have to find the guts to actually perform this mod.
Tim Stinchcombe
jenamu6 wrote:
Now I have to find the guts to actually perform this mod.
Taking it slowly and steadily is the way to go, and I cannot stress enough how having the right tools for the job will determine how well it does go. This is the type of tip I mostly use on my iron, from this page:



- its ability to get into tight spots is self-evident, and also one of the reasons I have yet to see a Weller iron that looks like it might compete on equal terms, as all the Weller tips I've ever seen seem to be so short and stumpy I have a natural aversion to even picking the thing up, let alone attempting to solder with one. But it's horses for courses I guess.

Tim
sandyb
i'm going to sticky this thread for the benefit of any future wigglers who wish to perform the mod.

thanks once again to Tim for his time and skill Guinness ftw!

i'm looking forward to my noiserings returning!
marketingslime
Awesome Tim! Thanks so much...very helpful.
marketingslime
[quote="Tim Stinchcombe"]
jenamu6 wrote:




- its ability to get into tight spots is self-evident, and also one of the reasons I have yet to see a Weller iron that looks like it might compete on equal terms, as all the Weller tips I've ever seen seem to be so short and stumpy I have a natural aversion to even picking the thing up, let alone attempting to solder with one. But it's horses for courses I guess.

Tim


Tim,

What temp setting do you usually use with this tip? Do you have a particular solder preference?

Thanks,
Slime
Tim Stinchcombe
marketingslime wrote:
What temp setting do you usually use with this tip? Do you have a particular solder preference?
I have an Ersa RDS80 soldering iron:

http://www.ersa.com/art-0rds80-358-1997.html

- having bought one for my use at work, I was so impressed with it I bought one for my personal use at home. For leaded solder I have it set to 360C, which does for most work, unless I'm working with something that wicks the heat away, and it is then an easy matter to dial in another 10 degrees or so to give it a little boost. (But that said, I have no idea what the actual tip temperature is - I assume the temp sensing device is some way away from the end of the heating element - and so what you need will depend on the exact type of iron that tip is actually used on!)

As for solder, we used to use this stuff at work for small surface-mount devices (it is thin, 0.4mm diameter!) before everything went lead-free, and I bought a reel for myself:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/4430578/?searchTerm=4430578

but as you can see RS certainly don't sell it any more, and I think it is likely it is not even made any more - it is 'Alpha FT-2002 rosin free Sn63/Pb37, single core 1.4% flux content' made by Alpha/Cookson Electronics:

http://alpha.cooksonelectronics.com/Products/Cored-Wire/FT-2002-Rosin- Free

(and actually the pdf 'Technical bulletin' on that page suggests that lead/tin is maybe still around...).

For more normal through-hole work I bought a reel of the same stuff but with a larger diameter, 0.75mm:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/4430562/?searchTerm=4430562

(and I probably should add that a lot of my decision was based on the fact that it doesn't give off lots of nasty smelling fumes like some solders do!). At my current rate of usage, these two reels are going to last many, many years!

Tim
cleaninglady
I just finished this mod for solitaryzen.
Much more nerve racking doing it on someone else's module i must say...

Didn't have any solder smaller than 0.7 and my Soldering Iron tip is 1.4mm but i managed.

You need a really steady hand.

I ended up using the 10th pin of the Empty Socket at 'EXP' as i was a little wary of soldering the TL074 pin 9 with such a large Solder tip. (Thanks Tim for the advice).

Just soldered the wire straight to the socket conductor.

I used a hole punch to get the drill starting point for the hole in the panel and drilled it with 3mm then a 5mm bit.

Be very careful when soldering wires to the SMD components and gentle when soldering the switch. They are delicate and you can easily kill the switch by melting the housing around the conductors causing them to shift and the switch to malfunction or just not work at all.

I don't really recommend the size of solder tip i used but i'm just showing it has been done with regular gear.

Be brave and give it a go.
solitaryzen
Looking forward to getting it back and finally being able to sync up the clock smile

Thanks!!
jonat8han
I'm working on this mod right now, but I've been unable to find a switch of the proper size from an US dealer - anyone have a mouser or allied part# for one that's suitable? Everything I've found has been too large ...

thanks!
jonat8han
I found a switch at a local electronics place (no part# that I can see on it, sorry) but I've managed to do the mod successfully! Felt a bit of a shame to drill a hole in my nice blue NR panel, but it works & I'm very happy - thanks for all the info in this thread. I feel like looking at the measurements, that this Calrad switch would work, but I wasn't able to get my hands on one - http://www.calradstore.com/40-609.html
dogoftears
i am about to score a frac noisering and i'm wondering if a fellow sf bay area wiggler would like to help me perform this mod... i will buy you 2 beers and smoke you out with 3 spliffs. but after.
dJ dAb
I'll be going down this road soon... Finally scored a NoiseRing!
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