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Uncle PWM |
jimmyambulance
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 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: Uncle PWM |
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is there any way to do PWM on the uncle?
also - is there a vactrol on the back or is that a big capacitor?
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slow_riot
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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not a vactrol but a polystyrene capacitor. it's used for timing at the heart of the oscillator, polystyrene capacitors have good temperature stability and other things that make them good for the stabillty that an oscillator demands.
to get classic PWM. patch sqr2 into an inverter, mix this signal with sqr 1. phase knob will control pulse width. |
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norbert smith
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| sum saw 1 and inverted saw 2 |
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Yohda
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| slow_riot wrote: |
to get classic PWM. patch sqr2 into an inverter, mix this signal with sqr 1. phase knob will control pulse width. |
This patch give a kind of dual pulse like this :
And you don't even need to invert square 2, because square 2 at 180 is the inverse of square 1. 
Classic PWM is like Norbert said : saw 1 and inverted saw 2 |
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sonicwarrior
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de_raaf
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| need to try it myself, though it was not so difficult but never tried, love the sound of the uncle!! |
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grantrichter
Lord of all Wogglebugs
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Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle PWM |
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| jimmyambulance wrote: | | is there any way to do PWM on the uncle? |
The XMIX module has the functions to do the inverting and mixing for classic PWM. It also has the function needed to replicate the Buchla 258 waveshapers which crossfade from a sine wave to either a square or sawtooth.
This moves from a low harmonic content signal (the Buchla 258 has about 3% THD on the sine) to a higher harmonic content signal. This is the same thing a VCF does, but without the VCF. Personally I like the sound of this so called "filterless" filtering and wanted to make sure it was available in the system. You can use an Envelator for this of course, and the ZMOD control on the XMIX allows you to control the "filterless" sweep effect.
The same thing applies to the Anti-oscillator crossfading from the triangle to the Mayhem output similar to the Buchla 259 waveshaper.
Merry Xmas,
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infradead
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle PWM |
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| grantrichter wrote: | | jimmyambulance wrote: | | is there any way to do PWM on the uncle? |
The XMIX module has the functions to do the inverting and mixing for classic PWM. It also has the function needed to replicate the Buchla 258 waveshapers which crossfade from a sine wave to either a square or sawtooth.
This moves from a low harmonic content signal (the Buchla 258 has about 3% THD on the sine) to a higher harmonic content signal. This is the same thing a VCF does, but without the VCF. Personally I like the sound of this so called "filterless" filtering and wanted to make sure it was available in the system. You can use an Envelator for this of course, and the ZMOD control on the XMIX allows you to control the "filterless" sweep effect.
The same thing applies to the Anti-oscillator crossfading from the triangle to the Mayhem output similar to the Buchla 259 waveshaper.
Merry Xmas,
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Yohda
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The same thing applies to the Anti-oscillator crossfading from the triangle to the Mayhem output similar to the Buchla 259 waveshaper. |
| Quote: | | It also has the function needed to replicate the Buchla 258 waveshapers which crossfade from a sine wave to either a square or sawtooth. |
I don't think the anti sound is similar to the 259, he's more aggressiv and it's not the same kind of waveform.
The 258 use waveshaping, not crossfading.
Still cool, but not really the same or similar, can be confusing for people who want the 258 or 259 sound. |
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HueMonContact
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Uncle PWM |
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| grantrichter wrote: | | jimmyambulance wrote: | | is there any way to do PWM on the uncle? |
The XMIX module has the functions to do the inverting and mixing for classic PWM. It also has the function needed to replicate the Buchla 258 waveshapers which crossfade from a sine wave to either a square or sawtooth.
This moves from a low harmonic content signal (the Buchla 258 has about 3% THD on the sine) to a higher harmonic content signal. This is the same thing a VCF does, but without the VCF. Personally I like the sound of this so called "filterless" filtering and wanted to make sure it was available in the system. You can use an Envelator for this of course, and the ZMOD control on the XMIX allows you to control the "filterless" sweep effect.
The same thing applies to the Anti-oscillator crossfading from the triangle to the Mayhem output similar to the Buchla 259 waveshaper.
Merry Xmas,
|
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grantrichter
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Yohda"] | Quote: | | The same thing applies to the Anti-oscillator crossfading from the triangle to the Mayhem output similar to the Buchla 259 waveshaper. |
| Quote: | It also has the function needed to replicate the Buchla 258 waveshapers which crossfade from a sine wave to either a square or sawtooth.
I don't think the anti sound is similar to the 259, he's more aggressiv and it's not the same kind of waveform. |
Yes the difference is the 259 sends a sine wave into a triple cascaded stage wavefolder, where as the Anti-oscillator sends a triangle wave through a triple cascaded stage wavefolder. I did say similar not identical.
| Yohda wrote: | The 258 use waveshaping, not crossfading.
Still cool, but not really the same or similar, can be confusing for people who want the 258 or 259 sound. |
Where are you getting your information from? According to the schematic I have here B2580C dated 9-3-73. FET Q11 is being used as a voltage controlled resistor to "swamp" the average of R53 and R58 into IC5 from sine to saw or square. Admittedly, this is not as accurate as an actual crossfade, but the mathematics should be very similar.
I don't think Mr. Buchla has to worry about losing any sales because we can mathematically create similar tonalities to modules discontinued long ago.
Notice the careful choice of the word "similar" there is no substituting anything for anything else. This is why I don't make transistor ladder filters, if you want that sound, get an actual Moog instrument.
But to many, a 258 or 259 are unobtanium, so creating reasonably priced modules and documenting patches that produce similar mathematical results, allows the average human to try out the IDEAS in the modules.
This is much more useful. (IMHO)
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keetz
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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rico loverde
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yohda
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yes the difference is the 259 sends a sine wave into a triple cascaded stage wavefolder, where as the Anti-oscillator sends a triangle wave through a triple cascaded stage wavefolder. I did say similar not identical. |
But the 259 can start as a clean sine and add harmonic with the waveshaper (and that's the feature most people want from a 259), the anti start with a square and then add harmonics.
Still a nice patch with a very good VCO, but I can't hear the sonic similarity between the 259 and Anti. I found this confusing for those who don't know how the anti waveshaper work. |
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J3RK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Call me crazy, but I prefer the sound of the Anti to the 259. I love the feature set of the 259, and am even looking forward to replicating most of it with my DIY boards, but there is something very special about the Anti's waveshaping, FMing, and other 259-similar function. This is the reason that I plan to build another Wiard/Malekko system after I finish my DIY synth. I'm using mostly Buchla clones in my synth, and still prefer the sound of Wiard for the most part. They're different, and both are great. I'm glad these similar functions are available. I don't really think there needs to be an exact 259 clone as long as one can get all of the equivalent functions. |
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tongebirge
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J3RK
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tongebirge
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J3RK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The 259e is digital. (not a bad thing either in context) The original 259 is analog (other than what I believe is an MCU of sorts, possibly for the PLL.) |
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jimmyambulance
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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finally got back to checking this - thanks grant! my uncle comes in the mail this week and i'm really excited. i'm thinking that the Z3000 from TipTop and the Uncle are going to be best friends - especially when I pick up that x-mix!
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