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who own a Chimera?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author who own a Chimera?
Mr White
wich of you own a little of there beasts???

http://www.chimerasynthesis.com/#/onlineshop/4529104839

I have a BC8 and I'm waiting a BC16 from december... w00t
Umcorps
I've been waiting for one since June 2008 so get back in line. hihi

I think to get one quick you need to be in Depeche Mode. Otherwise, it's a long, long wait. Worth it, I'm certain, but a long wait all the same.

I see that BC has just started advertising for staff on the web site so maybe things will get moving a bit more quickly soon.


Maybe...


Mark
xart
I have a BC8. I like it AS MUCH (maybe more) as the 259e on the 200e.
This little digital box is EVERYTHING I like about Synth-Isis. The 'Playability' is as fun as a Synthi and more fun than ANYTHING with a keyboard. headbang I hook this thing up to a delay/echo, dim the lights, put on some makeup, take off my shirt and pretend I'm Brian Eno.

Mr White
xart wrote:
I have a BC8. I like it AS MUCH (maybe more) as the 259e on the 200e.


I think the sound is similar...
also the demo of HertzDonut reminded me the BC8, quite AMAZING!
I cant fuckin wait to get my BC16! hyper hyper hyper
I will definitely interface it with my EuroModular! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
mmetlay
Mr White wrote:
wich of you own a little of there beasts???

http://www.chimerasynthesis.com/#/onlineshop/4529104839

I have a BC8 and I'm waiting a BC16 from december... w00t


I have one of the first bC8 units to ship and am very pleased with it (although mine apparently wasn't engraved with a serial number, at least not any place I can spot). I have it sitting just above the pitch/mod joystick on my X-Station, in a spot that's the perfect size for it, and have it running into a spare set of inputs on the small audio interface that forms the center of my Studio B computer music rig. It's nice to add some nice tweaky analog fun to my computer tracks, and in Studio A it gets lost next to my other analog gear.

I really enjoy playing with it, although I think it has some abilities I've not yet tapped into. One of these days I'll get a bC16 and maybe the sequencer; the Chimera stuff fills a vital niche in my musical world because it's small, portable, and affordable, which are the three things I need for a patchable synth to be usable in my cramped and poor studio.

mike Mr. Green
ignatzthemouse
I have wanted a bc16 for a good long while. I like the design ethic behind the chimera stuff.
Mr White
mmetlay wrote:
I really enjoy playing with it, although I think it has some abilities I've not yet tapped into


I think the same, I've done some sine-kicks with it that I evend dont believe them! Mr. Green


ignatzthemouse wrote:
I have wanted a bc16 for a good long while. I like the design ethic behind the chimera stuff.


me too, very very much, so Buchla! w00t
evs
i was also thinking about ordering one, the bc16 really looks nice.

but i also have to say that i don´t want to give a company that just gives a fuck about their customers, my money.

i absolutely don´t like them, just look at their forums, they (chimera) are shameless...
gde
I have a bc16 and its LFO is my favorite, but i did wait 6 months for mine (I was one of the earlier buyers) and I do not like the way BC runs the business and canceled my order for the sequencer which I ordered in february of 2008 and still isnt in production

the bc16 was a completely different product from the time I ordered until the time I received it. the bc16 I have is part of the batch with a botched MIDI program, but I'd rather not have MIDI than send it back and wait who knows how long before he sends it back...


Also, there are various design flaws such as unbuffered outputs and the headphone output being real hissy, but overall for the price I paid (which was much cheaper than the current price) it has a lot of features that outweigh the overlooked design errors i would say
SoundPool
I remember reading about how that company was run by someone who had ripped off a ton of people previously. took deposits on a ton of video synthesis stuff, never made any of it, never returned anyone's money, and just vanished.
fuck buying anything from a company that operates like that.
astroschnautzer
can`t find pricing on the bc8 and bc 16, any clues?
mirri
when i ordered a bC8 this spring it was 124€ incl shipping. Never got a order confirmation or anything :(

/m
richard
I got the BC8 and BC16 and am no.2 in the list for the forthcoming BCX at which point I will most probably sell the other two. I like the BC8 a lot but its a pain to use the (amazing) sequencer live because of multibutton presses, am hoping the BCX will solve all of this and sound even better - plus it has midi control an analogue steiner inspired multimode and CV!!! The BC8 sequencer can record and sequence everything thing that happens on the synth including patch changes... (read that again and try to imagine that!)

the BC16 is nice but very fiddly and conceptually less original, also needing special cables to interface it with anything else and well, too freakin small basically...

I think BC is an amazing designer and his modular concept will be astounding if he every gets around to making it (every module have its own digital memory for patches and its own sequencer for recording knob changes etc...)

He's slow and totally disorganised on a business level but getting better. I'd be very suprised if he's any kind of Peter Grenader type crook. He seems like a decent guy to me, but I'd like to hear more about THIS very worrying comment, can someone confirm or deny
????????????????

Quote:
I remember reading about how that company was run by someone who had ripped off a ton of people previously. took deposits on a ton of video synthesis stuff, never made any of it, never returned anyone's money, and just vanished.
fuck buying anything from a company that operates like that.


seriously I think a damaging comment like that needs defending with some data!!!!! or withdrawing!
evs
richard wrote:

seriously I think a damaging comment like that needs defending with some data!!!!! or withdrawing!


would be interesting, you are right.
but i don´t think its so damaging, because
its allready like ripping people what chimera do.
some people wait now over a year! they should charge interest..

and by the way, just looking at the forum, its obvious that he IS a liar.
he just tell people that their synth is ready and to beshipped the next days, but he is lying, and the people wait and wait.
sorry, but what an asshole.

why didn´t he just sell the stuff he allready did?
once a synth is ready, he can sell it. easy for everyone.
richard
BC has stopped taking orders on any new product to clear the BC16 backorders, so his selling policy has already changed along the lines of what you recommend.

Its not my job to defend him, I waited nearly a year for my BC16 and was pretty pissed about it... especially by the repeated delivery dates which never transpired. He fucked up and he knows it, but he's not an arrogant, angry, certifiably criminally insane fuck like, well, you know....

So I say give the guy a break... it looks like he's finally learning how to run a business. I believe he means well.

Richard
shamann
richard wrote:
He's slow and totally disorganised on a business level but getting better. I'd be very suprised if he's any kind of Peter Grenader type crook. He seems like a decent guy to me, but I'd like to hear more about THIS very worrying comment, can someone confirm or deny
????????????????

Quote:
I remember reading about how that company was run by someone who had ripped off a ton of people previously. took deposits on a ton of video synthesis stuff, never made any of it, never returned anyone's money, and just vanished.
fuck buying anything from a company that operates like that.


seriously I think a damaging comment like that needs defending with some data!!!!! or withdrawing!


I believe you'll find pertinent info if you go hunting around through the results of this search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Ben+Fisher%22+zeitx

For instance:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound/browse _thread/thread/fcede79e559e0837?pli=1

When the BC16 was first launched, there were all sorts of problems related to order fulfilment. As far as I can tell though, orders have always been filled, just not always in a timely manner. Doesn't strike me as a crook, more that his ambitions outpace his business acumen.
richard
Like I say, he's not a great businessman, but I don't see any evidence of criminal behavouir there. Nothing that warrants the accusations made above.

Richard
SoundPool
I only said that I recall seeing that- not that I can back it up 100% or had any personal experience. Personally I don't see anything wrong with that. I find most of the time if there are lots of rumors about previous rip offs/bad business and early hints at a repeating pattern they tend to be true for the most part.

if business has changed and people get their stuff- great! but, personal I won't buy from a company like that without a go-between like AH or Noisebug
Mr White
richard wrote:
Like I say, he's not a great businessman, but I don't see any evidence of criminal behavouir there. Nothing that warrants the accusations made above.

Richard



you're right, we have the example of "another" that for sure is not a businessman fairly more than BC!

BC at least reply to emails and DO NOT TAKE MORE ORDERS WHEN HE IS FULFILLING PAST ONES!
parasitk
Looks like we should have a BC8 sometime this week. My bassist Bret ordered one a little while back. I'm looking forward to messing with it. screaming goo yo
Mr White
I've heard by BC some news about shipment of my bc16 last week...
then nothing more...
mmmm, this start to remind me of someone...
I hope to be wrong. meh
science
I think the problem is that there are far too many of us out there trying to buy the same things. The synth world needs a war, or at least some form of large scale bloodshed to thin out the numbers.

I'm still kicking myself for not ordering one of these a while ago. Now it looks like I'll be lucky if I ever get my hands on one.
Fidgit
science wrote:
The synth world needs a war, or at least some form of large scale bloodshed to thin out the numbers.


meh

ambulance
jenamu6
I would love to order one.........but I can't wait.

I just simply can't wait.
Umcorps
jenamu6 wrote:
I would love to order one.........but I can't wait.

I just simply can't wait.


It gets easier after the first year.

Like prison very frustrating
science
Fidgit wrote:
science wrote:
The synth world needs a war, or at least some form of large scale bloodshed to thin out the numbers.


meh

ambulance

That thing I said is what's called "sarcasm", or a "joke". Look it up.
science
You guys who are "waiting" might find this interesting...

I signed up to receive info when the bC16 was next available yesterday, and almost immediately received this in my inbox:

Quote:
Hi Mike Ar,

Chimera Synthesis Ltd has requested a payment of £212.00 from you through Google Checkout.

Message from Chimera Synthesis Ltd :
Thank you for ordering a bC16 patchable synthesizer, your package will contain: 1x bC16 synthesizer 10x patch leads (various colours) 1x signal inverter 1x allen key (hex wrench) As soon as we receive payment we will process your order, when it is dispatched we will email you a tracking reference number. Estimated Dispatch Date is approx. 14 days from receipt of payment. BC, Chimera Synthesis Ltd

Payment for:
bC16 (including 10x patch leads, inverter, allen key) & delivery



Next, they sent me a follow up -

Quote:

Hi Mike,

Pls find attached a price list (soon to be updated, but we are happy to stick to this). I have sent you an electronic invoice for a bC16 (sorry we haven't got your surname).

very best,

BC


I've decided against ordering. They seem way too eager to take my money and tell me they're going to deliver the synth in 14 days, considering they already have a ton of people who have been waiting for the same thing for years. I'd be stupid to ignore everything I saw on the Chimera forums and elsewhere. It looks like a cool little synth, but nothing is cool enough to get me to put myself at risk of being stolen from to obtain.
dubchild
Yeah, I did the same thing. I signed up to receive an email from them two weeks ago to inform me when the bC16 and bC8 were back in stock and now two weeks later both have been shipped to me. Trampoline

They must have produced a large batch of the bC16s.
Mr White
Umcorps wrote:
jenamu6 wrote:
I would love to order one.........but I can't wait.

I just simply can't wait.


It gets easier after the first year.

Like prison very frustrating


same thought here....

but I'm starting to be angry with BC
Umcorps
Mr White wrote:

but I'm starting to be angry with BC


If I read Dubchild's post right, and if he really means that he has a BC16 right now in his hands after ordering it just a fortnight ago I'm not angry, I'm incandescent. Rage!
parasitk
If my friend gets the bc8 he ordered this week I'll let you guys know - he only ordered it about a month ago or so.
Umcorps
Cheers for that, but it's likely that he will get it as promised. It's clearly easier and more cost effective for chimera to get BC8's out of the door than it is to make the BC16s. It's telling that his recent twitter feed talks about him shifting a large batch of bc8s before getting round to the 16s despite having a sizeable number of pissed off "customers" waiting. He's doing what's easy - not what's right.

Basically, I think he underpriced the BC16 originally and underestimated the complexity of manufacturing the device in any significant numbers.

I shouldn't be surprised. Its the age old story of British synthesisers. We're quite good at inventing interesting instruments. We're truly awful at bringing them to market in a reliable way.

(actually that's probably the complete history of the British manufacturing industry now I think about it.)
ix
the best interest free business loan is the customer !

can i ask why these are so desirable ? are they really that good sounding ? or flexible.I can see it being a cool gadget .


I shouldn't be surprised. Its the age old story of British synthesisers. We're quite good at inventing interesting instruments. We're truly awful at bringing them to market in a reliable way.
(actually that's probably the complete history of the British manufacturing industry now I think about it.)[/quote]
Atticus
dubchild wrote:
Yeah, I did the same thing. I signed up to receive an email from them two weeks ago to inform me when the bC16 and bC8 were back in stock and now two weeks later both have been shipped to me. Trampoline


angry

You paid for a BC16 and BC8 less than two weeks ago and already both are on the way? Oh my.
dubchild
Umcorps wrote:
Mr White wrote:

but I'm starting to be angry with BC


If I read Dubchild's post right, and if he really means that he has a BC16 right now in his hands after ordering it just a fortnight ago I'm not angry, I'm incandescent. Rage!


I paid and was sent tracking numbers for both, so they are both on there way. I never knew about any of the problems people are having with pre-paid orders, since I am not on any BC forums.
dubchild
Atticus wrote:
dubchild wrote:
Yeah, I did the same thing. I signed up to receive an email from them two weeks ago to inform me when the bC16 and bC8 were back in stock and now two weeks later both have been shipped to me. Trampoline


angry

You paid for a BC16 and BC8 less than two weeks ago and already both are on the way? Oh my.


Don't be mad at me. sad banana

I have the tracking numbers and tracking says they have shipped, so unless i receive two boxes full of rocks, i am assuming they are the bC8 and bC16 .
science
Well, I decided to take a gamble and order a bC8. He says it should ship next week. We'll see what happens.

I don't want to make any conclusions about him, since I barely know the story behind this... but hopefully it actually ships.
science
I will post and let everyone know if/when I receive my bC8.
Atticus
dubchild wrote:
Don't be mad at me. sad banana

I have the tracking numbers and tracking says they have shipped, so unless i receive two boxes full of rocks, i am assuming they are the bC8 and bC16 .


I'm not mad at you at all man. Nice one for getting them so quickly. w00t I really appreciate you telling us all as now we can see they are going out in no particular order!
Mr White
fuck.

I paid my BC16 the beginning of december....

yesterday I sent and overhelming email to BC that replyed me that he IS progressing heavily with back-orders, but, if I want a refund....

I dont fuckin want a refund now but I'm stuck of eating hope & promises.

but I'll keep him under pressure arrow

...and quote that!

Quote:
Cheers for that, but it's likely that he will get it as promised. It's clearly easier and more cost effective for chimera to get BC8's out of the door than it is to make the BC16s. It's telling that his recent twitter feed talks about him shifting a large batch of bc8s before getting round to the 16s despite having a sizeable number of pissed off "customers" waiting. He's doing what's easy - not what's right.

Basically, I think he underpriced the BC16 originally and underestimated the complexity of manufacturing the device in any significant numbers.

I shouldn't be surprised. Its the age old story of British synthesisers. We're quite good at inventing interesting instruments. We're truly awful at bringing them to market in a reliable way.

(actually that's probably the complete history of the British manufacturing industry now I think about it.)
Mr White
and we can use this thread to report who's getting his chimera at this point...

just to estimate a pay-get time relationship! Guinness ftw!
peh
I ordered a BC8 a few months ago. At the time of ordering I was told it was on the shelf ready to be posted. Since then zilch, nada, nothing, FA.

I don't know whether the guy is a fraud, incompetent at business or a mix of both. Whilst I'll wait for the synth rather than request a refund (at this point) I'll never buy anything else from him.

angry
peh
sungja wrote:


I think all BC8 orders are leaving this week.

YOu should read the Chimera synth forum. Its all there.

ambulance


I'm a frequent & increasingly annoyed reader of the Chimera forum..Ben "Chimera" Fisher has spun that "they are all going to be sent over X days" before and it's been bullshit in the past so I'm not entirely wetting my pants with joyful anticipation just yet ....i need a Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!
mark_snipz
I asked for a refund nearly 3 weeks ago, promised a cheque twice and nothing. So on the forum I threatened to report him to his local Trading Standards authority...and the message was moderated out of existence!

May have to take a wander over to his factory (about an hour from where I live) with a couple of friends...
wetterberg
mark_snipz wrote:
I asked for a refund nearly 3 weeks ago, promised a cheque twice and nothing. So on the forum I threatened to report him to his local Trading Standards authority...and the message was moderated out of existence!

May have to take a wander over to his factory (about an hour from where I live) with a couple of friends...
uhm... or how about reporting him to his local Trading Standards authority? hmmm.....
richard
they are fascinating and original synths and they do exist smile but this customer service approach is just fucking nuts. I waited 11 months for my BC16 after being personally promised it would be 10 days, but then others have waited over a year ? and some only 2 weeks?

that's fucked up

Richard
mark_snipz
I've actually been banned from the Chimera Forum for mentioning Trading Standards!

They would be the first port of call but that wouldn't get me my money back, I'd have to take him to the Small Claims court and that can take months here in the UK. Was just thinking of a friendly knock on the door just to enquire about the whereabouts of my £210, nothing more sinister!
richard
Mark

Have you tried calling him? he does answer the phone

UK:
01473 289 004

Overseas:
+44 1473 289 004

Richard
mark_snipz
I'll try again tomorrow, left a message last week :(
KNYST
I own a bC8 since yesterday. Love it smile

Waited over three months for it, should have been two weeks. I was pissed off already after five weeks... It's been a struggle to remain sane.
I wouldn't recommend this treatment to anyone. Customer relations: MY ASS IS BLEEDING
science
I was told when I paid last week that my bC8 should ship this week. Hopefully I don't get screwed.
parasitk
No sign of the BC8 here... it supposedly shipped.
mark_snipz
Am still waiting for a refund...have left a number of messages now but don't seem to be able to get through to the man himself. And as I've been waiting for so long I can't use Paypal to raise a dispute...next stop Visa. Annoying!
dubchild
I have received the bC8 and bC16. Both took about 8 days to get to me from time of shipping(for those who have received "shipped" emails.) So it looks as though he is shipping them out in no particular order of priority.
richard
reportedly he's been good with refunds in the past so marks continuing saga is worrying

Its a real shame BC can't get this together. I was just using the BC16 and BC8 and they kill. Reminded me that the BC8 is remarkable and one of the best digital synths I've ever heard - more buchla than nord and the design is clearly and impressively insane. I am not surprised the guy who designed it can't keep his invoices and orders organised! He is somehow thinking very differently...

But that is not an excuse. He's someone i would like to support as he is a very creative. but he's been fucking up bigtime since he started the business - using income from sales to invest in products which don't actually exist yet. Like certain others its a shame he doesn't have a business manager leaving him free to develop things he's clearly so good at..


Richard
Mr White
dubchild wrote:
I have received the bC8 and bC16. Both took about 8 days to get to me from time of shipping(for those who have received "shipped" emails.) So it looks as though he is shipping them out in no particular order of priority.


oooh fuck.

so I have to tamp BC way more to know where the fuck is my BC16! w00t

I'm enjoying so much with the 8 but now until hertz donut lands I just want something to tweak...
richard
My posts are being censored on his forum now as well. Nothing rude in there either... I just pointed out that Peter Grenader's example of customer service is not one BC should follow hihi

so be warned its no longer a real forum

thank fuck for this place, its really necessary

Richard
Mr White
just received tonight an email from BC telling me that he is approaching my BC16 to leave... It's peanut butter jelly time!
I hope so sad banana

Quote:
My posts are being censored on his forum now as well. Nothing rude in there either... I just pointed out that Peter Grenader's example of customer service is not one BC should follow

so be warned its no longer a real forum

thank fuck for this place, its really necessary


fuck yes.

people into crazyrisky business will protect it in every way... Sniper

but dont give a fuck by now I still have awesome time bongoing the 8 throug the QMMG! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
mark_snipz
My cheque turned up yesterday smile
science
Well, I was originally told mine would ship last week, then told it would ship Monday, then today told that it will ship tomorrow... so we'll see.
science
No tracking number, and he has now stopped responding to e-mails. I guess I might have lost this gamble. Glad I didn't go for the bC16.
science
Got a response... says he confused me with someone else and now my bC8 will ship tomorrow. sad banana
science
Still no tracking number, and I can't get a response out of him again. I may have gambled and lost this time.
richard
He'll send it man. but at Chimera, the words "tomorrow" "this week" and "next week" mean nothing. Its a shame, but its how it is... relax and enjoy your modular until it comes is the only advice I can offer.

R
science
I would have been patient if he hadn't made it a point to lie to me several times and tell me each day that my bC8 would ship "tomorrow".
Mr White
sungja wrote:
I picked up the BC16 today.

I have never sent much emails to Ben at Chimera cause that wont help at all.

Just join the forum and be patient thats my advice.

8_)


totally agree!

I send him an email every 2-3 weeks, just to make some pressure! razz

this time he send me and email by himself telling that "we are soo close" Soapbox

just for curiosity, when did you paid for your???
science
All is well... shipped today.
droolmaster0
Well, I read this thread, but I'm taking a chance and I sent an email for an order. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it sounds like within a few weeks I should get a notice to pay, and then theoretically after I do, I receive my order relatively soon. We'll see.

What I'm not really that sure about, and maybe someone can can tell me quickly is - what else do I need with this thing. It looks like some cables are included, included the mini cables to regular banana? But only a few - so I should probably buy some more of each? Anything else?
Umcorps
droolmaster0 wrote:
and then theoretically after I do, I receive my order relatively soon.


The Chimera theory of Relativity.

Time (as in delivery time) being an entirely elastic and arbitrary concept bearing no meaningful relationship to anything else in the known universe.

Welcome to the masochist club. Mr. Green

Quote:
What I'm not really that sure about, and maybe someone can can tell me quickly is - what else do I need with this thing. It looks like some cables are included, included the mini cables to regular banana?


Didn't know about the mini to regular cable. Wasn't mentioned when I ordered mine. AFAIK, when it ships, the BC16 ships with 10 mini banana cables, an inverter cable, and a few spare mini banana plugs for you to make your own interconnects if you want.

Given its size, its hard to see how you would want to be using more than 10 leads at a time regularly, especially once you add a midi/power lead and the audio output into the mix.

You might want to add the mini banana to 1/4 inch jack cable to your order though. The headphone output on the BC16 is really just that - the amp is quite noisy apparently - so its better to bypass it and grab the output directly.

Probably a good idea to budget for some relaxation classes as well. Chances are you are gong to get pretty wound up between now and when you actually get what you ordered.
science
bC8 arrived today. I know what I'll be doing tonight Mr. Green
parasitk
Cool deal. No BC8 over here yet... confused
science
This thing is awesome hyper

Having a blast with it already, and I'm just using it on my tiny desktop speakers at work. Can't wait to hook it up at home and feed the modular with it.
panda30y
science wrote:
This thing is awesome hyper

Having a blast with it already, and I'm just using it on my tiny desktop speakers at work. Can't wait to hook it up at home and feed the modular with it.


I remember xart raving about them sounding just like a buchla vco. Perhaps it'll hold you over for awhile until you get the Buchla?
science
It'll definitely help.
science
Now that I've had about an hour to mess with it at home, I can see that it will definitely help keep me occupied for a while. This thing sounds great and is a hell of a lot of fun. Best $140 or so I've ever spent.
science
Forgot to add that usually it takes me a day or two to really bond with a new piece of gear, even if it's something that I know I'll love. This thing instantly put a smile on my face. I've been sitting on the floor in the middle of my living room with it hooked up to my surround sound system since I got home, and I think I'll be doing that until I fall asleep... and then repeating it tomorrow.
richard
good, its nuts isn't it smile

I like it much more than the BC16

If he ever gets around to finishing his modular its gonna be a seriously crazed digital/analog hybrid monster. And at his current rate of devlopment it should only take 20 years to finish!

Richard
Mr White
http://soundcloud.com/whitesushi/that-damnt-buchlas-bongo

hear this!


gated by the QMMG the BC8 is doing Buchla!
rob.ocelot
Hmmm. The main Chimera Synths forum hosted on Forumer has been down for the better part of a day. Nothing else hosted by Forumer seems to be affected. Chimera's site is still working and taking orders.

A little early to start getting nervous but something is definitely up.

I already own a BC-16 that I order in 2007 (and recieved last year) but I do have a few more Chimera pieces on order.
parasitkbass
got word that my bc8 shipped yesterday. not as bad as some of the stories i've heard. i paid for mine may 4. i was just starting to forget about it when i got the shipping confirmation.
memberlist
in the last 12 month benjamin c. fisher told me many times my (paid) bc16 is going to be shipped on the next day
well i received nothing - he is also not responding to my (always polite) emails
droolmaster0
Well, the problems make me nervous, which is counterbalanced by the fact that these seem like some of the most creative new instruments around. So, I actually ordered both the bc8 and 16 about a week ago. We'll see. He may have problems getting the stuff out on time - that seems apparent. But I don't get the Grenader vibe here. We'll see.
Umcorps
Well, I've had enough so I'm folding. Just cancelled my orders and requested full refunds.

Two straws broke this camel's back.

First was having it confirmed he had been shipping BC16's to some recent customers while not fulfilling many (any?) of the much older orders. There are several ways to explain someone doing something like that, but none of them are good.

Second was seeing him pull the Chimera forum. That was a useful reality checkpoint for people with outstanding orders. It might have made uncomfortable reading for Ben, but there was a very obvious remedy for that problem. Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "lah, lah, lah, I can't hear you" isn't it.


Well done to everyone in this thread who actually got some kit out of Ben. I'm really sorry that I'm not one of that select band but its not the end of the world. As one door closes, etc, etc.....
memberlist
Quote:
...while not fulfilling many (any?) of the much older orders.


i believe its his business model
he is producing and serving just a small amount of already paid products
the lucky ones are picked randomly because he is obviously not serving in the right order
the rest of us are hoping they will receive theirs too

i am surprised he kept the forum so long
it was actually based on hundreds complaints - i have never seen something like this
guess he realized that its easier to rip off people without it

here you can find people waiting for earlier products since 2004 !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound/browse _thread/thread/fcede79e559e0837/ac0e11c7fb3131e7
coilsandco
I've just joined this Forum, as the Chimera forum being taken down has got me worried, and doesn't exactly fill me with confidence as regards Ben's intention to fulfil any outstanding orders.

Safety in numbers and all that, eh?
richard
welcome...

RIP chimera forum Tombstone

its a real shame he can't get his shit together. Some aspects of the products are really incredible IMO

R
droolmaster0
Well, I placed an order knowing that there have been problems precisely because the products seem so unique and excellent. I noticed that it does say on the site that the bc8 should ship in 2-3 days. I ordered mine a couple of weeks ago, and have gotten no shipping notice, but I guess that's not news....I expected that the bc16 would take awhile, but I had hoped that the bc8 would come quicker.
panda30y
droolmaster0 wrote:
Well, I placed an order knowing that there have been problems precisely because the products seem so unique and excellent. I noticed that it does say on the site that the bc8 should ship in 2-3 days. I ordered mine a couple of weeks ago, and have gotten no shipping notice, but I guess that's not news....I expected that the bc16 would take awhile, but I had hoped that the bc8 would come quicker.


seriously, i just don't get it

All I can say is that I hope you don't get ripped off twice... Russian Roulette
rob.ocelot
So it's confirmed that he took down the forum?

THAT STINKS! angry

Seeing as there was useful information on there about BC-16 patches, about upcoming products, about how to make the combined MIDI/power cables that he still hasn't got around to selling, the status of the never finished BC-16 manual, and a whole host of other useful information Ben Fisher has really shot himself in the foot. d'oh!

Time to cancel my order. That's over $800 I'll have back and put into something else interesting.... another modular like the AS Vostock, or maybe the Bugbrand modular.
Umcorps
rob.ocelot wrote:
So it's confirmed that he took down the forum?


He threatened to do it last week in one of the several "where's my kit" threads over there. Forum Runner appears to be functioning as normal so there aren't many other conclusions you can come to.

I've been rooting around in Google's cache to see if he left a suicide note in any of the threads but the cache isn't complete so its hard to be certain.

I couldn't agree more about the destructive stupidity of what he seems to have done though. Big mistake. Dead Banana
rob.ocelot
He could have locked those threads and/or banned the whiners -- neither is a terrific solution but it sure beats throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Here's hoping he gets the outstanding orders shipped and reopens the forum.


hmmm..... If he doesn't do that, how does he expect to generate new business?

I have a suspicion he'll do what he did in late 2007 and early 2008:
Carpet bomb the music and tech blogs and send units only to reviewers and bloggers.
jenamu6
Too bad, chimera doesn't run a fair business........I would really like to order one or two, but not in these circumstances.
memberlist
Quote:
He could have locked those threads and/or banned the whiners

so. pissed off customers - waiting since a year or more, being lied to many times, being treated very arrogant
are whiners ?

i am so disgusted by chimera synthesis behavior - i probably would throw the synth away if i ever would receive it
Fidgit
at the end, before the forum disappeared, there were a few critical posts regarding BCs business practices.

they said basically that he seems to have an endless supply of "lies of the day", complemented by complete silence and more or less spectacular events happening to him and stopping him from delivering units which have been paid for by people years ago.

often he also says he completely changed the design and specs, the units would become even more spectacular then announced before but "unfortunately" some more time is required to finalize these new designs.

also he's not short of "your units will ship soon / tomorrow / next week" replies.

certain similarities to peter grenaders behavior are certainly fully coincidental... hmmm.....

fairness, honesty and transparency seem to be rare commodities these days. confused
indexofmetals
Mine arrived this morning; I ordered it last month. it's so small
Fidgit
wow, congratulations, enjoy! nice to hear.

however, i don't dare to say what others may think now, having paid year(s) ago and waiting since then. Dead Banana
indexofmetals
yes been there with Cyndustries (part of it was a custom job but I definitely hold the record for longest wait for their produts).

I asked him about the BC16 and he said he wasn't taking any new orders till the old ones were done. I'm guessing the BC8 has less prep / assembly work or it's done elsewhere.
Roycie Roller
indexofmetals wrote:
yes been there with Cyndustries (I definitely hold the record for longest wait for their produts). I asked him about the BC16 and he said he wasn't taking any new orders till the old ones were done. I'm guessing the BC8 has less prep / assembly work or it's done elsewhere.


Win some, lose some smile

So, does anyone think the 3 day lead time is b.s?
I wouldn't mind putting 1 or 2 of these behind a panel in the modular.
memberlist
Quote:
Mine arrived this morning; I ordered it last month. it's so small

bc8 or bc16 ?
indexofmetals
it's a bc8.

roycie roller - definitely; I was building a plan b system till that went pear shaped, right around the time Tom Bugbrand got in touch saying he was going to be building a modular. It all balances out BugBrand!
rob.ocelot
memberlist wrote:
Quote:
He could have locked those threads and/or banned the whiners

so. pissed off customers - waiting since a year or more, being lied to many times, being treated very arrogant
are whiners ?


Nope, sorry.

Let me clarify: There was one individual on the board who always made a fuss about the late shipping (and perhaps rightfully so). He eventually decided to bail and asked for a refund, kicking up a huge fuss and being verbally abusive (of course he's in the right here, but I think his method was a little on the nutty side). In the end he got his refund but returned to the board after the fact under a different name and just started messing with the other people who were still waiting. That's who I was referring to, not everyone else who is waiting.

It would have been so much easier to lock those threads and ban the offender.

I'm in no way defending Ben Fisher's customer service record. I waited eight months to get a BC-16 and I pretty much ordered as soon as I heard about in Dec 2007. FWIW, I believe I even got mine before Depeche Mode did.

The current events though really have me wondering if he is going to bail like he did on those steadycam people a few years back. Many of those people were out thousands of dollars.

I've fired off an email to Ben asking him to reinstate the forum becuase there is information there I would like to archive and possibly put elsewhere (possibly here). If i don't get a response in a few days I'll ask for my refund.
science
Amazingly enough I ordered a bC8 about a month ago, and got it 2 weeks after ordering. That sucks for people who are still waiting, and have been, for the same thing, for months/years... but I'm not about to refuse delivery to make things "fair" for other people. I'm kind of disappointed that things seem to be quickly going further downhill over there, though. It seemed like he was getting his shit together. I really wanted to order another bC8.
coilsandco
Seems like he's getting bc8s out, but that's scant consolation to the people who have been waiting over a year for their bc16s.

As for the sm16 and bcx orders...it seems that these products only exist in Ben's head, but that hasn't stopped him taking orders for them.
rob.ocelot
One very important casualty of the Chimera forum being gone is that it contains some of the last posts made by Tim Conrardy who tragically passed away earlier this year:

http://www.camelaudio.com/news.php?nID=133

More than anything, I'd like to see those posts memorialized. To add insult to injury the Chimera homepage automatically plays tracks Tim made with a BC-16 and BC-8. sad banana
Umcorps
rob.ocelot wrote:
The current events though really have me wondering if he is going to bail like he did on those steadycam people a few years back.


I hadn't realised this until yesterday when I was digging around in Google for the Chimera forum cache but it looks like that's not just history. Fisher Robotics still have an active web site. http://www.fisher-robotics.com/

Some stuff in this thread from just a couple of months back has a very familiar ring to it.
coilsandco
I keep trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but that's becoming increasingly difficult. Taking down the forum was a very foolish move if he expects people to continue to trust him.
rob.ocelot
sungja wrote:
I think the forum will go up again over the weekend.
He did mention work on the Chimera synths website this week/weekend, so probably he is doing some work on the forum to.
I dont have a feeling that the forum is gone forever.


I hope you're right, Sungja. One of his last posts said we should be hearing "exciting news" by the weekend. I hope the forum spontaneously combusing wasn't that event. Dead Banana

BTW, good to see you and other Chimera refugees here Sungja. Maybe we should just start our own Chimera section @ Muffwiggler. I've seen Thetonewrecker on here too. Anyone else?
Atticus
rob.ocelot wrote:
BTW, good to see you and other Chimera refugees here Sungja. Maybe we should just start our own Chimera section @ Muffwiggler. I've seen Thetonewrecker on here too. Anyone else?

I'm here too. Chugging Beers If we can start a Chimera section then that would be great.
droolmaster0
indexofmetals wrote:
yes been there with Cyndustries (part of it was a custom job but I definitely hold the record for longest wait for their produts).

I asked him about the BC16 and he said he wasn't taking any new orders till the old ones were done. I'm guessing the BC8 has less prep / assembly work or it's done elsewhere.


when did he say that? he took my order about 2 weeks ago or so.
indexofmetals
after rereading the email I mixed it up with the bcx, sorry
Fidgit
the news section of the website says:

14 July 2009
The Chimera Synthesis forum is disabled at present, we are evaluating a number of changes and enhancements to this forum to improve it's function.

so let's see (and wait...)
coilsandco
14 July 2009: bC16 available again
Chimera Synthesis is happy to announce that from today, we will be taking a limited number of new bC16 orders for delivery in 4 weeks time

confused
Mr White
coilsandco wrote:
14 July 2009: bC16 available again
Chimera Synthesis is happy to announce that from today, we will be taking a limited number of new bC16 orders for delivery in 4 weeks time

confused



yeah,
and I'm still fuckin waiting my BC16 from december... angry

I'd be happy for a chimera section here but first I think we have to get our synths!

what do you think!? razz
Umcorps
Mr White wrote:

what do you think!? razz


I still think what I said on the dead Chimera forum. The only decent way for him to progress now is to stop taking pre-orders and concentrate on making some actual stock. When he has real, finished and tested BC16s and 8s post the live stock numbers on the web site and take orders against them. When they are sold, stop taking orders, start making stock again and repeat the process.

It's called rebuilding trust and reputation. How hard can it be? seriously, i just don't get it
rob.ocelot
I wish he'd take a cue from Bugbrand and Atomosynth.

They never:

1) Sell stock they don't have (Tom Bugs posts stock numbers and sends an email when stuff is available. Atomo puts completed units on ebay)

2) Use presale money to fund development or other equipment purchases. I'm 99% sure the money I paid for a BC-16 and SM-16 were used to fund supplies to make the quicker-to-build (and also higher profit margin) BC-8's and to buy the new C&C equipment and reflow furnace. Perhaps it would have been better that I didn't know how the money was spent.

3) Go silent for weeks at a time leaving customers wondering WTF is going on. There was a Chimera blog that didn't get updated very often. Then Ben moved to Twitter (aka Blogging for the ADD generation) and now we hear about how many lattes he's had and when he has the flu. We sometimes get a picture of stuff being made but they are few and far between.

There's only a few ways you can run a one man operation. Soapbox
jenamu6
I'm so tempted to order a bc16......but hate these stories.

I mailed him today, to let me know when he has some in stock.


The bc8 seems to be deliverable...........but that one doesn't have anyway to interface with other gear.......or does it?
droolmaster0
hmmmm - now I have not had a good experience with Atomosynth.

I got one of their mochika 2 synths awhile back. Fun little unit, actually. Then after about 2 weeks, the oscillators conked out. Was able to have him send me a replacement chip - initially he wanted me to send it back to Peru at my cost, or hunt for the chip by number on ebay, etc.

He was supposed to give me replacement instructions but didn't do so.

I tried several times for a few months to get in touch with him - I wasn't able to.

I finally did and finally got instructions from him. I'm not that good at this stuff, and while I got the chip in, and the synth is operational again, I really didn't get it back together properly, and again, I've had the same issue. He simply doesn't respond to emails for the longest periods.


rob.ocelot wrote:
I wish he'd take a cue from Bugbrand and Atomosynth.

They never:

1) Sell stock they don't have (Tom Bugs posts stock numbers and sends an email when stuff is available. Atomo puts completed units on ebay)

2) Use presale money to fund development or other equipment purchases. I'm 99% sure the money I paid for a BC-16 and SM-16 were used to fund supplies to make the quicker-to-build (and also higher profit margin) BC-8's and to buy the new C&C equipment and reflow furnace. Perhaps it would have been better that I didn't know how the money was spent.

3) Go silent for weeks at a time leaving customers wondering WTF is going on. There was a Chimera blog that didn't get updated very often. Then Ben moved to Twitter (aka Blogging for the ADD generation) and now we hear about how many lattes he's had and when he has the flu. We sometimes get a picture of stuff being made but they are few and far between.

There's only a few ways you can run a one man operation. Soapbox
droolmaster0
I just got an email saying that my bc8 has shipped. Yay. Along with an apology for the delay, and a thanks for my patience. It was only 2-3 weeks, which isn't that bad.
science
jenamu6 wrote:
The bc8 seems to be deliverable...........but that one doesn't have anyway to interface with other gear.......or does it?

Everything can be interfaced with other gear if you're creative about it wink

I've got my bC8 hooked up through my A-119.
Atticus
droolmaster0 wrote:
I just got an email saying that my bc8 has shipped. Yay. Along with an apology for the delay, and a thanks for my patience. It was only 2-3 weeks, which isn't that bad.


I've just had the same. Except I've been waiting four months. Joke of an operation.
Mr White
I think the real mess is on the BC16.

back in december, surfing the wave of exciting after ordering the BC16 I ordere also the BC8.
it arrived in a matter of days, 10 if I remember.
so I was much confident on the promised delivery times.... result, I'm still waiting... w00t


maybe I'll send an email to Ben telling that here we are starting a Chimera section and post impression/tunes/and stuff.

maybe this will speed up his work, what do you think?
memberlist
Quote:
maybe I'll send an email to Ben telling that here we are starting a Chimera section and post impression/tunes/and stuff.


i wouldn't honor him with a chimera section as long he behaves like that.
Umcorps
Mr White wrote:
I think the real mess is on the BC16.

maybe I'll send an email to Ben telling that here we are starting a Chimera section and post impression/tunes/and stuff.

maybe this will speed up his work, what do you think?


I noticed this afternoon that the Chimera forum has come back up. I also noticed that all the posts taking Ben to task for his crappy approach to business seem to have been disappeared. Taped Shut

It's great to know he's so on top of the back orders that he has time spare to sift through 12 months worth of forum posting, deleting the ones he doesn't like. f u
parasitk
Speaking of, Bret (Parasitkbass here) got his BC8 this week. It's pretty cool.
hbc
Got one today. Ordered it on 7/7. Fast reply by email (like within 30 minutes) when I contacted him a week after ordering to see when it would ship.

Seems OK to me. YMMV.
jenamu6
hbc wrote:
Got one today. Ordered it on 7/7. Fast reply by email (like within 30 minutes) when I contacted him a week after ordering to see when it would ship.

Seems OK to me. YMMV.


Which one is that the 8 or 16?


It's still beyond believe that some people are waiting for a year and other people get it in 2 weeks time.
hbc
BC 8. Seems like the really long wait is for the 16.
parasitkbass
waiting for the chimera stuff is a real drag. let me tell you this though, it sure is worth the wait. i know that i didn't wait as long as some people for a bc8.
i still plan to order a bc16.

the bc8 has gone with me everywhere since it arrived. it's great.

now if i could only get some time at home to record with it a little.
SlayerBadger! Rockin' Banana! nanners
droolmaster0
bc8 arrived today. In about an hour or so, I'll be able to check it out. It's SMALL....
hbc
I ran my new BC8 for about an hour last night when I got home from work. It is AWESOME.

Now I just hope that airport security lets me bring it on the plane tomorrow.
jenamu6
But the BC8 is more like a drone/noise synth isn't it?

It's not as much of a synth as the BC16 is, is it? hmmm.....

Anybody willing to sell there bc16? woah
hbc
It's got a sequencer in it. Makes good bubble noises and FM stuff. Can also do a mean kick/snare 2/2 pattern. You could also probably program it to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.
parasitkbass
hbc wrote:
I ran my new BC8 for about an hour last night when I got home from work. It is AWESOME.

Now I just hope that airport security lets me bring it on the plane tomorrow.


i can't get enough of it either. it plays very well with my bugbrand weevils.

as for travel, leave extra time, i'm sure you will be delayed.
parasitkbass
jenamu6 wrote:
But the BC8 is more like a drone/noise synth isn't it?

It's not as much of a synth as the BC16 is, is it? hmmm.....

Anybody willing to sell there bc16? woah


the bc8 plays however you want it to. you can't sync it to anything though. the sounds are outstanding.

the bc16, you can connect a controller to and play.

i'd be shocked to find anyone selling any of their chimera stuff. it's all just too tasty.
science
Does anyone know if there's a way to get the bC8 to ignore pauses between notes when you're entering a sequence?
parasitkbass
science wrote:
Does anyone know if there's a way to get the bC8 to ignore pauses between notes when you're entering a sequence?


i have to mess with it some more and let you know. i haven't even had it a week yet.
coilsandco
Hands up who thinks all outstanding BC16 orders will be shipped before the end of July?
science
I watched the videos on his site and have been messing with mine for a few weeks now... kind of thinking it's not even possible, which is kind of a let down. Maybe I'm just missing something or need to watch those videos all the way through instead of skimming and getting distracted playing with the bC8 lol
parasitkbass
coilsandco wrote:
Hands up who thinks all outstanding BC16 orders will be shipped before the end of July?


i wouldn't be surprised if all the orders are fulfilled.

i wish i had one on order.
droolmaster0
I am very enamored of my new bc8. It's an amazing little synth, let alone at its price. I do kind of wish that it also worked with a power supply - my batteries ran out after just about 3 hours or so, but maybe that was just the Walgreen batteries.

Sounds like my bc16 should ship next week. I empathize with the people who have had problems, but it sounds like he's getting it all together now (?). In any case, I find myself very excited also about the sequencer, which I guess was on preorder and then withdrawn, since he is apparently developing it further.
memberlist
hm. in the last 13 month it sounds many times "he's getting it all together"
wonder why he is able or willing to produce so many bc8's but no bc16's ?
droolmaster0
memberlist wrote:
hm. in the last 13 month it sounds many times "he's getting it all together"
wonder why he is able or willing to produce so many bc8's but no bc16's ?


It sounded to me that he's catching up on the bc16's.
Umcorps
droolmaster0 wrote:
It sounded to me that he's catching up on the bc16's.


I think the problem is that he's made similar encouraging noises for the past 14 months so there's no way to know if things really have changed or if its just the same old BC bullshit. You'll only know if and when you get your BC16.

For what it's worth, ten days ago he said he'd get a full refund to me within the week. Guess what....?

Caveat emptor sad banana
science
droolmaster0 wrote:
my batteries ran out after just about 3 hours or so, but maybe that was just the Walgreen batteries.

The energizers I had in mine lasted through a little over a week of heavy use after I got it. Probably 14 hours or so.
parasitkbass
the procell batteries in mine are still running strong and it's gotten many hours of use.
memberlist
ok. i am waiting now for my paid bc16 since over 13 month
i haven't heard anything from benjamin c. fisher since 5 month
my (polite) emails are not getting answered
i write this just to warn people who consider to order a bc16
evs
wow. i just ordered today a BC8 (after reading here that this seems to work.)
i´ve paid today, and the bc8 is allready on its way, i´ve received a tracking number! SlayerBadger! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana!
this was very very fast.
i think he is on the way to get better. he shows if the synths are in stock, and i think you just can order one if it is. this is great!
maybe one day the bc16 will also ship within a day. and when this day is here, i will order one.. Drums!
opsysbug
I actually have 3 BC8's which all came rather quickly.
BC16 took one year with a lot of "ready by this date" type false
alarms. Now ordered some extra cables for BC16-"I'll make them this week."-now two months later and no email reply. Biz'ness as usual it seems. very frustrating
Find my triple BC8's on Youtube under "opsysbug"
Mr White
droolmaster0 wrote:
Sounds like my bc16 should ship next week. I empathize with the people who have had problems, but it sounds like he's getting it all together now


huahauauuahaaa! hihi

sorry for you but that's a mere illusion!

be prepared for waiting a year or more, good waiting! Mr. Green
droolmaster0
Mr White wrote:
droolmaster0 wrote:
Sounds like my bc16 should ship next week. I empathize with the people who have had problems, but it sounds like he's getting it all together now


huahauauuahaaa! hihi

sorry for you but that's a mere illusion!

be prepared for waiting a year or more, good waiting! Mr. Green


Well, we'll see. I'm glad that I'm providing you some laughter. My impression from the Chimera forum is that he is shipping the bc16's quite steadily now.
coilsandco
droolmaster0 wrote:
Mr White wrote:
droolmaster0 wrote:
Sounds like my bc16 should ship next week. I empathize with the people who have had problems, but it sounds like he's getting it all together now


huahauauuahaaa! hihi

sorry for you but that's a mere illusion!

be prepared for waiting a year or more, good waiting! Mr. Green


Well, we'll see. I'm glad that I'm providing you some laughter. My impression from the Chimera forum is that he is shipping the bc16's quite steadily now.


He has given that 'impression' many times over the past 12+ months
droolmaster0
yes. I know that. But people have been steadily receiving the bc16's now.
droolmaster0
Update - I just received an email that my bc16 has shipped.
coilsandco
droolmaster0 wrote:
Update - I just received an email that my bc16 has shipped.


When did you order yours?
droolmaster0
Late June...
coilsandco
That's great - hope it turns up soon! Seems like the June-ers are getting theirs now. Perhaps you're right and he is getting through them, and will hopefully have all backorders out by the end of August.

I'm ordinarily a very patient man but when it comes to Chimera...
Atticus
coilsandco wrote:
That's great - hope it turns up soon! Seems like the June-ers are getting theirs now.


Drool ordered his in late June 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people who ordered their BC16 in June 08 haven't seen it yet.
coilsandco
Atticus wrote:
coilsandco wrote:
That's great - hope it turns up soon! Seems like the June-ers are getting theirs now.


Drool ordered his in late June 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people who ordered their BC16 in June 08 haven't seen it yet.



Oh. I thought he meant June 2008.

Good old Chimera.
Atticus
coilsandco wrote:
Oh. I thought he meant June 2008.

Good old Chimera.


Yes. The lies about waiting times are bad enough but the queue-jumping (no fault of the customers of course) has soured me about the machines themselves really. I don't know if I want to use them anymore even if they do arrive(!)
Minimoog56
I was on the first order for the BC16 but got bored of waiting - BC refunded me instantly upon cancellation. I was on the list at $129 - now they go for $399. My loss but it seemed vapor ware at the time. I just picked up the BC8 b/c it was available and was being discontinued. Even though it is a digital synth I love it - very cute toy with a powerful dsp neo-analogue feel. Great stuff.
Umcorps
Minimoog56 wrote:
I was on the first order for the BC16 but got bored of waiting - BC refunded me instantly upon cancellation.


Good for you. My mileage varied considerably and, now I've ended all dealings with Ben Fisher maybe I should just summarise how it all turned out for me. That way potential buyers can decide how lucky they feel before putting down their cash.

I was one of the earlier orderers, first paying for a BC16 in June 2008. A BCX and some cables got added to the order later when I still thought BC could and would deliver.

I got increasingly concerned by how BC was failing to deliver while still taking money and how he had started to pull posts he didn't like from the Chimera forum. When he pulled the entire forum to cull the critical content I decided it was time to check out.

I wrote (politely) to BC asking for a refund and he sent a polite reply back to say I would get it in a week or so.

And that was the last direct contact I had with him.

After a couple of weeks of nothing, I wrote again to say that if he didn't reply I would take legal action to get my money back. He didn't reply.

I issued a Small Claim. In typical style, BC waited until the last possible day before sending me my cash refund plus the court fees.

On the back of that experience, I won't be having any dealings every again with Ben Fisher and his companies. He makes cute and interesting stuff but if I had wanted to play lottery I'd have bought a ticket.

"So, punk, do you feel lucky?" Russian Roulette
opsysbug
Wow that is a pretty sad story.
I got a BC16 after 1 year exactly (10 or so shipping promises) and managed somehow to get 3 BC8's pretty quickly. They are really pretty amazing but I almost feel bad about owning them ! Not only is this guy really dishonest about shipping dates but very disorganized as well-we see people who ordered recently getting product while those waiting from 2008 still wait. He has been promising the BCX for a year now (hell he is promising a PICTURE of the BCX for8 months at least-not even a pic or plan of the thing exists that he can post).
He covers up his poor activities by pretending everything is "Secret" like
never telling how many made etc and "secret serial numbers" whatever
that is ! All in all a pretty lame experience. It really takes away some of that "new toy joy" doesn't it ? waah
opsysbug
Read the forum.
Looks like biz'ness as usual to me !
Imaginary gear. Imagine that.
and look...on the opening page ! "BC 16's available again !" what a surprise.

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/index.php
Mr White
got an email from BC saying that will ship my BC16 in the tomorrow's mega-batch... hmmm..... Dead Banana
richard
he says 3 weeks on the BCX

a likely story, now the real wait starts...

hopefully by xmas. Shame he fucked up the BC16 sales and customer managment so badly, that reputation will stick for a long time I'm afraid.

the BCX looks like one of the most original synths since the evolver to me

R
wetterberg
richard wrote:
Shame he fucked up the BC16 sales and customer managment so badly, that reputation will stick for a long time I'm afraid.
don't count on it - he already had a bad reputation when he started Chimera, he still got plenty of people to buy into it... To know your future you must know your past... never forget. Looks like this next project will be the second time that people will have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Umcorps
wetterberg wrote:
don't count on it - he already had a bad reputation when he started Chimera


Which is why it was always a very odd name to use. hmmm.....

Wikipedia, she say

"In Medieval art, though the Chimera of Antiquity was forgotten, chimerical figures appear as embodiments of the deceptive, even Satanic forces of raw nature. Provided with a human face and a scaly tail, as in Dante's vision of Geryon in Inferno xvii.7-17, 25-27, hybrid monsters, more akin to the Manticore of Pliny's Natural History (viii.90), provided iconic representations of hypocrisy and fraud well into the seventeenth century"
Mr White
woah, this time I received also a summary of my order and a dispatch date stated for today, transaction code ecc...
I received one also on january 2009 reporting an expected dispatch date of march 2009....
hope this time will be true! hmmm.....
Fidgit
don't want to discourage you, but my personal experience with BC tell me that's he's "highly unreliable", to express it mild... confused
opsysbug
Usually when you get the tracking # then its coming...
But I don't think there has ever been a MEGA shipment.
That's a Chimera ! lol
BugBrand
wetterberg wrote:
don't count on it - he already had a bad reputation when he started Chimera, he still got plenty of people to buy into it... To know your future you must know your past... never forget. Looks like this next project will be the second time that people will have to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Sounds like someone else as well ...
History repeats itself.
& this is a shame for all involved.
Mr White
got the tracking a few minutes ago!

finally, a very long wait, indeed...

for the posters:

I ordered my BC16 beginning of december 08 or something, then a BC8 just before christmas 08. hyper
BC8 arrived on 30th december It's peanut butter jelly time! , and on january 09 I received an email reporting an expected BC16 dispatch for march 09 sad banana .
obviously no any dispatch on march but several emails of BC with various explanations for delays and periods of almost no contact... I have to admit that I had a cuple of patience falls in that period so he proposed me a refund but I decided to still hold on... very frustrating
...until july, when BC told me that "we are very near dispatch date" several times... hmmm.....

a couple of days ago he sent me a new order confirmation with a dispatch date stating 11th september (!). not this shit again
but today he sent me the tracking number. nanners

I've almost forgot the BC16 coz I was totally eaten by my euro but now I'm soooo curious about that little fuckin' bastard I waited for sooo long...
richard
that's insane Mr White, 19 or 20 months?! I got mine in 10 or 11 months, others in two weeks. It really doesn't make any sense to do business like that. I mean, why?

the BCX is the very last thing I will ever pay up front for (I'm number 2 on the list). Too many problems with that business model. Manufacturers please note:

IT JUST DOESN'T WORK TO BORROW MONEY OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS TO FINANCE THE PRODUCTS AND THE DELIVER THEM LATE. THAT IS A SHITTY BUSINESS MODEL.

this really needs to change

R
peh
richard wrote:


IT JUST DOESN'T WORK TO BORROW MONEY OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS TO FINANCE THE PRODUCTS AND THE DELIVER THEM LATE. THAT IS A SHITTY BUSINESS MODEL.

this really needs to change

R


You are totally right there. I "only" waited a few months for my BC8 but that was annoying enough...I think the best way to stop this type of thing happening is for us the "customers" to stop paying for goods that don't yet exist..Though that wouldn't have helped in my case as he claimed it was on the shelf and ready to ship very frustrating
seth
I ordered my bC16 (and an SM16 as well) in May 2008, paid US$269 for each. I got the bC16 last week. It was worth the wait, and now I'm really looking forward to getting the sequencer as well. He makes great stuff.

Business practices? Well, uh, could be better.

My personal feeling is that I never minded the wait, but was a little annoyed by the repeated "it's shipping soon" emails I got now and then. I have a Mattson Mini Modular that took about as long to get. The difference, though, is that there was constant communication from George about what was going on. Even though there were setbacks in the road to actual production, we were all told about them and given frequent updates. It was much appreciated.

I realize some people are furious with Chimera. I'm not, though. Was it a long wait? Sure. Am I happy with the bC16? Totally. If Chimera was as transparent and communicative as Mattson, nobody would have had any problems at all. Would I order from Chimera again? Probably, but not if I needed something for a tour that was starting three weeks in the future.

Anyway, the bC16 is totally cool, I've only had it in my hands for only three days, and I'm spending way too much time with it.
seth
Also, here's a blog post I did on the bC16. And I've done a few on the Mattson Mini Modular as well.

http://http://boxoftextures.blogspot.com/

http://boxoftextures.blogspot.com/search/label/MMM
Sound
I don't know about Chimera, but I have had bad very very bad experiences with Plan B as well Cyndustries.

Part of the guilty is because the attitude of some "yes to all" customers, of this insane ratio fanboys/star instead a normal ratio customer/manufacturer.

What make they a different company? Nothing. I know a lot of little companies and if them say Friday ship, Friday is shipped. that is profesionals.

But if you guys pay before the device is manufactured, and accept all this, all this is deserved. I don't know guys, this is not normal. These manufacturers don't respect their customers.

The funny is that they only accept good criticism. Well they will always have their Adam kissers. And if you don't agree with them you are not cool anymore and will be defamed.

I had enough. I will never ever buy a single module. I absolutely don't mind if there are honest manufacturers: I had enough.

Its a shame.

I'm making and I will make my modules. DIY. Yes. Do it Yourself.
science
Believe it or not, there are trustworthy, professional, and over all good people in this industry. Don't punish them just because there are a bunch of shady ass pieces of shit in that same industry.

Some quick ones off the top of my head:
Scott / Harvestman
Josh / Malekko
Grant / Wiard
Rex / Serge
Bruce / Modcan
Toppobrillo

etc...

I agree with you that the "THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BUY YOUR MODULES!!!" attitude will continue to encourage the bad behavior, stealing, etc... but the only way to fix it is with your wallet. Stop buying things from or supporting people who have a bad track record, and keep buying modules from the people who haven't screwed anyone over.
NV
peh wrote:
I think the best way to stop this type of thing happening is for us the "customers" to stop paying for goods that don't yet exist..Though that wouldn't have helped in my case as he claimed it was on the shelf and ready to ship very frustrating


I think that's one of the problems - it's all too easy for someone to say that an item is in stock and ready to ship when it is far from it. There have been many reports of people ordering from Cyndustries, COTK, Chimera, and others I likely don't even need to name, having been told the item was in stock and ready to ship out within the week then led down the path of odd delays and lack of communication.

Sorry to say, but I think there's no real way to avoid being thrown into a hassle by a small company. It's extremely easy for someone to get your money and leave you hanging, and when it's for relatively small transactions of a few hundred dollars then there's really very little chance of them getting into legal trouble - the attitude is either a.) they're out a few hundred dollars and don't want to pay thousands for a lawyer, or b.) a few hundred dollars isn't worth all of the trouble. If Buchla started ripping people off on $15,000 systems you can bet people would be getting lawyers, police, and the FBI involved and they would be happy to help, but a few hundred dollars is relatively small change in terms of the law. In that regard, word of mouth from each other is all we have to rely upon.

There are small companies that are extremely transparent in their transactions and noble in their customer care. To add to science's list, I've had very positive experiences with Doepfer, Bridechamber, Make Noise, and many other small non-synthesizer audio manufacturers like Great River, Chandler, and Emery Sound. Some of these manufacturers have a policy of a 50% deposit at time of order and 50% when the item is ready to ship, others function through in-stock retailers, but in the end it comes down to the fact that they are honest people working hard to run an honest business.

As science said, the only way to really fix these sorts of situations is to stop supporting them. Many people become quite angry when they are encouraged not to support a company that has given others many problems - they say module X or product Y sounds or looks great and resent being told not to buy them. I won't delve into the merits of such an attitude as it will just lead to an enormous argument, but the fact is that there's no reason for a dishonest company to improve their practices if they have no financial incentive to do so. If people support a "cool product" even though they've been warned otherwise and have seen the distress the company has caused, that's one less reason for the company to shape up.
Umcorps
NV wrote:
Sorry to say, but I think there's no real way to avoid being thrown into a hassle by a small company. It's extremely easy for someone to get your money and leave you hanging, and when it's for relatively small transactions of a few hundred dollars then there's really very little chance of them getting into legal trouble


Dunno about the US but if you and the problem company are in the UK it's very, very simple to use the law to get your money back if other routes have failed.

Just use Moneyclaim Online to start the Small Claims procedure. How much it costs depends on the size of the claim (my claim against Chimera cost just £25) but you add that to the amount you are claiming so you get it all back if you are successful.

It's all done online unless the company puts in a defence and asks for a hearing, (which they would be crazy to do if they have taken your money and failed to deliver the goods because there is no defence they can offer). The main risk for you is if the company go insolvent before you can get a judgement. Then you'll get nothing. But that would happen anyway if the company folded.

It's simple, cheap, quick and usually effective. A judgement against the company would make life very difficult for them when it comes to raising investment capital and suchlike so there is a huge incentive for them to settle your claim before it gets to that stage.

And, because they have to pay your fees, although you can't use the procedure to get damages of any kind, it means that they haven't had any benefit from having used your money as an interest free loan. Which pleases me no end.

Quote:
There are small companies that are extremely transparent in their transactions and noble in their customer care.


See Tom Bugs for a UK example of how things can be done.

Quote:
If people support a "cool product" even though they've been warned otherwise and have seen the distress the company has caused, that's one less reason for the company to shape up.


I agree!
Fidgit
Quote:
See Tom Bugs for a UK example of how things can be done.


fully agree. tom bugs (bugbrand) and chris muir (eardrill) are absolutely professional and reliable. i'm impressed by these two guys and their attitude.

but now back to the topic of the thread...
seth
sungja wrote:
Bugbrand is the best deal ever, products ready to go and superfast safe shipping, highly recommended!


I too highly recommend Bugbrand stuff but, not to be ornery or argumentative, I have somewhat mixed feelings about it. Tom's stuff *is* amazing but it's not always ready to go, and some of it is just unbuyable. At one point I decided to get a Weevil. If I added up the time it took me to get lucky in the "email lottery" it would probably be about as long as it took me to get my bC16. What would happen is that I'd get an email saying "hey, I have 10 in stock" but by the time I was able to email back they'd all be gone. I think maybe three or four batches went past before I accidentally happened to be home and checking my email when one of them came in.

Is the email lottery fair? Maybe, but it left maybe not a bad taste in my mouth but certainly an odd one.

Similarly, only 12 people were able to get a Bugbrand modular, and forget about the Drone Machine. It's just not available. Now I understand Tom Bugs is one guy making incredible stuff, but that it's so difficult to buy any of it is just a bit of a bummer. Sure, he's open and transparent about his business practices, but it's still difficult/impossible to purchase.

I'd rather be on a waiting list with a deposit or prepayment for a year or so than to either not be able to buy something at all or to hope I happen to get lucky one day.
wetterberg
I'll add to this a bit: Bugs - PLEAAASE, we know it's tricky as hell, but ramp up your production! We want your modules... badly! I would even go frac to satisfy my desire for this system :GASP!:
jenamu6
Yes one bugsystem for me please........ applause applause applause applause
science
Ok... but I fail to understand how this gives you any reason to take issue with Tom's business practices?

Do we as potential customers "own" him, therefore making him in the wrong for not being able to fulfill our individual wants?

I want one of his modular systems too, but it's his life, his business, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants with both thumbs up
wetterberg
science wrote:
Ok... but I fail to understand how this gives you any reason to take issue with Tom's business practices?

Do we as potential customers "own" him, therefore making him in the wrong for not being able to fulfill our individual wants?

I want one of his modular systems too, but it's his life, his business, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants with both thumbs up
Hey, I'm just voicing an opinion... which, I believe, you are as well? thumbs up
And no, he's not "in the wrong" - but I am still allowed to want him to do things differently, thankyouverymuch wink
science
wetterberg wrote:
science wrote:
Ok... but I fail to understand how this gives you any reason to take issue with Tom's business practices?

Do we as potential customers "own" him, therefore making him in the wrong for not being able to fulfill our individual wants?

I want one of his modular systems too, but it's his life, his business, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants with both thumbs up
Hey, I'm just voicing an opinion... which, I believe, you are as well? thumbs up
And no, he's not "in the wrong" - but I am still allowed to want him to do things differently, thankyouverymuch wink

I wasn't directing that at you thumbs up

Read the post above yours...
wetterberg
ah, sorry mate. Your post makes a lot more sense now, hehe.

Yes, you can get one more of these then:
thumbs up
cavage
Umcorps wrote:
NV wrote:
Sorry to say, but I think there's no real way to avoid being thrown into a hassle by a small company. It's extremely easy for someone to get your money and leave you hanging, and when it's for relatively small transactions of a few hundred dollars then there's really very little chance of them getting into legal trouble


Dunno about the US but if you and the problem company are in the UK it's very, very simple to use the law to get your money back if other routes have failed.

Just use Moneyclaim Online to start the Small Claims procedure. How much it costs depends on the size of the claim (my claim against Chimera cost just £25) but you add that to the amount you are claiming so you get it all back if you are successful.

It's all done online unless the company puts in a defence and asks for a hearing, (which they would be crazy to do if they have taken your money and failed to deliver the goods because there is no defence they can offer). The main risk for you is if the company go insolvent before you can get a judgement. Then you'll get nothing. But that would happen anyway if the company folded.

It's simple, cheap, quick and usually effective. A judgement against the company would make life very difficult for them when it comes to raising investment capital and suchlike so there is a huge incentive for them to settle your claim before it gets to that stage.

And, because they have to pay your fees, although you can't use the procedure to get damages of any kind, it means that they haven't had any benefit from having used your money as an interest free loan. Which pleases me no end.

Quote:
There are small companies that are extremely transparent in their transactions and noble in their customer care.


See Tom Bugs for a UK example of how things can be done.

Quote:
If people support a "cool product" even though they've been warned otherwise and have seen the distress the company has caused, that's one less reason for the company to shape up.


I agree!


i tried to use this after reading your post to solve my undelivered mixer with the ORAM company but i failed to register because they dont seem to accept non-UK customer ...

so bad ...

i wish something like this can exist ITL ..
Umcorps
Umcorps wrote:
..... if you and the problem company are in the UK it's very, very simple to use the law to get your money back if other routes have failed.
Sound
cavage wrote:


i tried to use this after reading your post to solve my undelivered mixer with the ORAM company but i failed to register because they dont seem to accept non-UK customer ...


You should contact the Consumer Defense of France. They will inform you what you can do. Also they have agreements with the other Defense Consumer of Europa. They will mediate in order to solve this amicably.

Regards.
cavage
yup, in fact, all that is needed is an adress in uk ... not necessary living in uk ...i have a few friends over there i migth ask help...

i am afraid france is larger less organised , or involved in 'modern' defense for transactions over the net...
it is sad ... here all you can do is pay a lawyer ( expensive ) and wait months and months, almost years ...
Sound
You should check it instead complaint of France. We are in the CE. You dont have defense of the consumer there? c'mon man.
seth
science wrote:
Ok... but I fail to understand how this gives you any reason to take issue with Tom's business practices?

Do we as potential customers "own" him, therefore making him in the wrong for not being able to fulfill our individual wants?

I want one of his modular systems too, but it's his life, his business, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants with both thumbs up


No, that wasn't what I was saying (well, at least that wasn't what I intended). Nothing against Tom's business practices and not thinking I own him at all. I'm just a mildly frustrated potential customer. He makes great stuff, it's just not as easy to buy as I'd like it to be. That's not a criticism, maybe just more of a wish and a sigh.

Totally love Bugbrand stuff, and am the very happy owner of a Weevil08.
science
seth wrote:
No, that wasn't what I was saying (well, at least that wasn't what I intended). Nothing against Tom's business practices and not thinking I own him at all. I'm just a mildly frustrated potential customer. He makes great stuff, it's just not as easy to buy as I'd like it to be. That's not a criticism, maybe just more of a wish and a sigh.

Totally love Bugbrand stuff, and am the very happy owner of a Weevil08.

Ahh... sorry then. I misunderstood. All is well thumbs up
BugBrand
Guys - THANKS - & I fully understand and hear you!

I do take it on board - in fact, the whole 'lottery' type affair really made me move towards making the Weevils more regular at the start of this year - hence the 'raw board' approach of the Board & Postcards. This has allowed pretty regular production (they've been out of the shop the last days because I've been away doing a couple of shows - they're not always in stock, but there are at least 15 of each made every month now)

On the modular front - I am working towards this! It is a lot of work (enjoyable) and a great challenge, so for now we stick to the current course!

Cheers

Now - get back on topic!
wetterberg
The main thing here is that we're all fans, really thumbs up
opsysbug
Lets make a pact. If any of us have to say " It's a great synth (pedal,case,
sequencer,module etc) but that guy is a real asshole (thief,scammer etc)!
Then lets not order anything else huh ? I mean sometimes we defend
people or protect them even when they are so obviously stealing because
we JUST WANT that synth ! I'm guilty too. I waited through all the promises and lies.
When I get Tom Bugs stuff in the mail I want to PLAY it. When I got the BC16 one part of me wanted to THROW it in the toilet. Just kind of ruins the fun doesn't it ? Dealing with these people... and sorry but all you guys who "don't mind waiting" are just fueling this guy to take more money and make others wait for things that we all know will never come out . And you are discounting all the lies he told me (and you !!).

Uhhh...anyone seen a BCX picture ? Haha it's a SEEEE...cret !
wetterberg
the BCX- is that the sequencer?
Umcorps
wetterberg wrote:
the BCX- is that the sequencer?


From memory, it was supposed to be a hybrid combining the the innards of the BC8 with a more fully featured sequencer. So I guess that qualifies it as a true chimera just at the moment.

The relevant thread was probably removed when BC culled the forum but there was an entertaining exchange there back around April/May time when BC promised that a photo of the beast would appear over that weekend just as soon as he got hold of a light tent for his camera.

And we all know how tricky they can be to source.
Mr White
the tracking number BC gave to me track a fuck of nothing...
it starts to dig in my mind that feel of being fucked another time, I dont know if I'm explaining myself correctly... hmmm..... very frustrating
Mr White
BC16 arrived!



BC gave me the wrong tracking.... [/img]
opsysbug
Shiny !
Try to grab some of those mini-little banana cables from hime. Come in
very useful !!
opsysbug
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=190

hmmm.....
Mr White
opsysbug wrote:
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=190

hmmm.....



that sequencer is intriguing but I'm very done about waiting for this year!

maybe next time....

I'm playing the BC16 quite a bit in these days, I'll post something for the community when I'm a little more deep into!
ix
with regard to bc i cant comment accept to say his problem is he took advanced money orders to finance his business and is also a liar at times , has little responsability and just a strong arrogant streak like certain otehr mentioned builders and the opposite from others.Its all down to the way some people finance and centre their business.


The normal method

Find funds / loans / credit
Create and finance business
Build products
Sell products
make money from customer

This method involves the business taking a monetary risk and responsability


The ' use the customer as a free bank loan method

Take money from customer
create and finance business
Build products
Sell product
make money from customer TWICE

( Twice as they are using deposits to get interest free BUSINESs LOAns )

This method involves the customer taking a large % of the monetary risk ! and responsability and the business has both the cake and eats it.....


In business the business takes the risk ? but what we are seeing is now where boutique builders letting the customer take a large % of the business / money risk ? - its not morally right and why things go wrong.I think it also lumps more pressure on the business - you take 100 pre orders and cash then it works against your motivation - you already have a large % of cash = you work less......the pressure of paying off Businesss loans and credit motivates a business forwards where as a business centred on large deposits and funded by these can often work the opposite , the company has the cash and then have to do the work and its not very motvating getting paid upfront and then having to provide goods .Having said that a small deposit can show some commitment from a customer and help a business indicate sales potential but it should not form the basis of a businesses cashflow.
Mr White
ix, I cant say you're wrong.
Fidgit
ix wrote:
boutique builders letting the customer take a large % of the business / money risk


word. evil
such "business" models should not be supported by customers, but of course everybody is free to decide and to bear the consequences.
science
After a couple recent experiences (one of which I'm still nowhere near through with), I'm done paying in advance for anything in the synth world, unless I know and have done business with that person already.

This industry is completely fucked up these days.
coilsandco
Umcorps wrote:

Just use Moneyclaim Online to start the Small Claims procedure.


Thanks for that info, its good to know for when I finally lose my patience with Chimera. Lets hope it doesn't come to that, although only time will tell...
opsysbug
I'm terrible. I got my BC16 after a years wait.
Every once in a while I go over to the site and still get angry.
And then I have to write...
Atticus
Have a look at the product page of Chimera Synthesis, now showing pictures of the SM16 sequencer. Oh my god it's f***ing BEAUTIFUL.
science
Looks awesome... I'll be ordering one as soon as they start ending up in customers' hands.
droolmaster0
Oh, god.....that does look nice. If all works as advertised that's an amazing price for a sequencer that powerful.
coilsandco
For all his appalling customer service this is why we order his products.

Drunken Homer Simpson
wetterberg
it's the same damned thing I saw like, 2 years ago. Apparently making a mock-up gets us all drooling. Man up, people. wink
coilsandco
d'oh!
wetterberg
having said that; If I see this at Schneiders at 50 more... I would snatch that unit up real quick. Fuck.
Fidgit
there seem to be some progress on the SM16...

http://www.chimerasynthesis.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi

but this was too often the case already. meh
Umcorps
As a refugee from the synthcase trollfest thread I've got to put down a reality check here and now. That way, if anyone here gives BC hard cash for one of these babies at this stage in the process, they don't have anyone but themselves to blame.

What is happening now is what happened when the BC16 first appeared. It all starts with great photos of something shiny and unique that make the hardest synth cynic go love and has a quoted delivery date of 4 weeks attached to it.

If BC remains true to form, what will now happen is a few people will let gear lust override their judgment and will pay upfront. The weeks will pass. The postman will not call. Tempers will fray.

Some favoured punters with a public profile (respected bloggers, "name" synthesists etc) will get units delivered to them during this time. That will dampen down some of the unrest and will convince some waverers that this is not a vapour product (it was at this point that I was suckered into ordering a BC16 after Tom Whitwell of Music Thing got his). More payments will be made, postmen will continue to go missing, tempers will fray again, etc, etc, etc... History will repeat itself.

I'd like to be wrong. But if I'm not, don't anyone here dare come back and bitch that they weren't warned before they parted with their cash.

Wetterberg's absolutely right. The only sane way to deal with BC would be never to have to deal with him at all and only get his stuff through a trusted dealer. It would just be speculation to wonder why he still doesn't use this route after all the crap of the past few years. But as he doesn't the only way I'll ever be paying for one of these will be on the second-hand market.

And Science, I'm not getting at you personally but just take a look back at what you said on the 24th September and what you said on the 10th October. That's what gear lust does to your eyesight. ambulance



My name is UMCorps and I'm a synthaholic.....
coilsandco
I don't believe for a second that these sm16s will be shipping "within the next 2/3 weeks" or whatever completely unrealistic estimate he's giving at present. I don't think its the wait that really bothers people, just the lies as regards delivery times.

I don't think there would be as much animosity towards the guy if he said something along the lines of "I'll try to get the first 50 units out within the next six months, but can't promise anything". That way people could decide whether or not they were prepared to wait.

The bc16 page currently claims "Orders now shipped in around 20 days" which is patently untrue. It can be dressed up as 'misplaced optimism' or whatever, but its just a big fat lie. Selling goods wrapped up in lies as regards delivery dates does not do your reputation much good. I'm amazed BC has not figured this one out yet.
science
Umcorps wrote:
And Science, I'm not getting at you personally but just take a look back at what you said on the 24th September and what you said on the 10th October. That's what gear lust does to your eyesight.

I don't feel like searching, nor do I remember what I said on the 24th, but I clearly stated in this thread that I won't be going near these things until they start ending up in customers' hands.

I have had experience dealing with this guy, and while he's a liar and slow as hell, he did get a BC8 to me within 3 or 4 weeks of ordering, if I remember correctly.
opsysbug
Ummmmm Yea....like a dream. lol
I'll buy one for sure. When it shows up here in the buy/sell.
Check yourself everybody. Back off. d'oh!
Go buy a module. It'll distract you.
Nuuj
In March of this year I ordered a BC16 because the website claimed it would ship within a month.
At the time I was debating waiting for a Doepfer Dark Energy, but I went for the BC because I thought it would be a shorter wait.
If I was aware that there were so many outstanding orders from 2008 I wouldn't have made the order.
Unfortunately I didn't start reading the Chimera forums until it was too late.

By July I was pretty much resigned to the idea that there was a 50% chance I would ever get my BC16, but I thought that I probably had an equal chance of getting a refund so I didn't do anything until Sept. 30th.
On Sept. 30th I emailed Chimera officially asking for a refund.
I did not get any reply for a few days so I posted a simple refund request on the Chimera forum.
The next time I visited, I noticed that I was banned from the forum.
When I cleared my cookie for the site I could see that my refund request post had vanished and Ben had posted a message paging me with a claim that email to me was bouncing.
I was not sure how he expected me to see this message, as I was banned.
I responded from my work email and demanded my refund again.
His response via email was that I needed to send information to do a bank transfer as this is the only way he does refunds.
To send such information via unencrypted email is insane, but I reluctantly created a password protected PDF for him.
I asked when I could expect a refund and his response was either the next day or some time next week.
The end next week turned out to be this Friday, so I emailed him for a status update and he has yet to reply.

Could anyone who is still on the Chimera forum please post this message for me there?
I would also appreciate if anyone who is on good terms with Ben Fisher would contact him on my behalf to ask about the status of my refund.

Is anyone else here waiting for a refund?

I can't understand how anyone could order anything from him until he satisfies all his outstanding orders and refund requests.

Robert Nuuja
Aka Nuuj
TrashWaveform
I almost bought one of these when the BC-16 was launched. Honestly I liked the product and took a big interest in it. From what I saw on the Matrix Synth blog he was making good on orders and even read up on people actually meeting the guy to personally pick theres up. I shot him an email asking when it was going to be ready and he told me they were taking orders. Then the car shot a piston into the motor and I didn't go through with purchasing because I didn't know if my warranty company was going to cover it. It looks like I dodged a bullet here. I give him kudos for not taking new orders so he can focus on old orders. If this gets cleared up I may still be interested in buying one. Just want to check out how his damage control works out first.

I can relate with the start ups that are actually trying but are getting behind. I tried this with a company called Glitch Labs trying to make these things. I got way over my head and had a lot planned but had a ton of road blocks. For starters it was $400 in parts to make due to my selection of going balls out high quality industrial strength. I didn't have the money to stock parts and make them ready to ship. I also had no background to support I am a capable business man and could take pre-orders. And then with the price of what it was I didn't wanna be the asshole selling circuit bent Casio SK-1s at $1000 a pop. So ultimately I didn't jump in and take a risk. I am going to still pursue this venture of real professional circuit bending, I am just trying to do it right and avoid failing in the least bit.

So when this shit goes down with companies like this, Plan B, and Synth Case I do understand this. But they need to understand people are still going to judge there performance including through the rough. So if he can remain professional and come out on top I will be a future customer. I hope he is studying the Plan B and Synth Case threads on not what to do.
Umcorps
Nuuj wrote:

I would also appreciate if anyone who is on good terms with Ben Fisher would contact him on my behalf to ask about the status of my refund.


It might be worth contacting him again and tell him that, if he continues to jerk you around about this refund, you will complain to his local Trading Standards authority

http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/BusinessAndConsumer/TradingStandards/

I don't think he'd welcome their attention so it might be a good way for a non UK resident to kick him into some kind of action.
ix
still upto his old tricks is he ?

It might be worth contacting him again and tell him that, if he continues to jerk you around about this refund, you will complain to his local Trading Standards authority

http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/BusinessAndConsumer/TradingStandards/

I don't think he'd welcome their attention so it might be a good way for a non UK resident to kick him into some kind of action.[/quote]
Nuuj
Still waiting for my refund.
I see he has new teaser products listed on his website and is still taking orders on products he hasn't yet shipped.

Nuuj
darenager
I waited about 1 year for my BC16, I also ordered a BCx that was supposed to be ready a few months back, still waiting..........

Nuuj, you link repository was a great resource for me back in the day so cheers for that applause
coilsandco
How long can this last?
Nuuj
Thanks darenager, I gave up on my link list last winter when my ISP decided to stop letting users code their own websites. I might still resurrect it, but it's really more of a link graveyard these days.

Still no action on my refund. I don't think he has even responded to email in a week. I sent him a link to this forum last week. I'm wondering what other places I should post my tale of woe. I don't really want to put him out of business, because then everyone waiting will lose their money too. If everyone who is waiting asks for a refund then his business will collapse and no one will get their gear or their money back.
ix
the sad thing is ben chimera is well aware of these threads and also his own history but the guy doesnt care ...he knows people will keep ordering and there is nothing anyone can do if he doesnt deliver.

Quote:
Still no action on my refund. I don't think he has even responded to email in a week. I sent him a link to this forum last week. I'm wondering what other places I should post my tale of woe. I don't really want to put him out of business, because then everyone waiting will lose their money too. If everyone who is waiting asks for a refund then his business will collapse and no one will get their gear or their money back.
[/quote]
coilsandco
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=198

Hands up who believes him
Fidgit
haha, that's a good one! hihi
however, only those following the situation for the entire 2 years can appreciate such messages to its fullest now. lol
ix
i believe that when sales start to fall and things get bad these people then wake up a bit , whether he cares is another matter but what matters is people get goods they paid for and also not lied to.Hopefully his new helper will be honest with him and also the customers and lets hope the cash flows good and it all flows as he imagines it will ....Great products , great inventor , i dont think communication is his problem , i think compassion of other humans is.......i would like to see him do a full modular system as the sound of the bc16 is mean.....if the guy is clever and wises up he has an amazing business there.



coilsandco wrote:
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=198

Hands up who believes him
Nuuj
I hope this Vivienne is nice and able to get me the refund that I requested a month ago sometime soon, so that I can stop complaining and move on to making music with the new Eurorack gear that I plan to buy.

It's possible that much of this news is true, but given the past there is no way to tell how much is true and how much perhaps isn't. Ben's excuse has been that he is an optimist, but given the history over the last few years I think the term delusional may be more accurate. I can think of no other explanation if he has actually believed all the estimated ship dates he has given over the last few years. If he has never really believed in those ship dates himself...
wetterberg
I wonder if this Vivienne is a "model" just like the Plan B lady brought in to "help" there. That ended well.
richard
I'd be pretty wary about those 2mm banana jacks and the tiny amount of wiggle room on these babies - for me the BC16 was unuseably small and unergonomic - nice enough sounding synth though...


R
ix
i think personally he well may be beginning to see his business fail on a financial level - mention of bank managers and new machines suggests to me also new investment - the reason you have no refund is as he has no cash - he draws in more orders than he can handle and downpayments and then this cash gets watered down i feel , he doesnt have enough time and where is your orders cash ? yeah - he doenst have it so no refund . . . .its the same old story - no cash investment or not enough and taking to many orders - these guys all have to limit the orders they take - they get to greedy.I personally wouldnt trust him with any money right now - i think he is another cash liability waiting to fold......


Nuuj wrote:
I hope this Vivienne is nice and able to get me the refund that I requested a month ago sometime soon, so that I can stop complaining and move on to making music with the new Eurorack gear that I plan to buy.

It's possible that much of this news is true, but given the past there is no way to tell how much is true and how much perhaps isn't. Ben's excuse has been that he is an optimist, but given the history over the last few years I think the term delusional may be more accurate. I can think of no other explanation if he has actually believed all the estimated ship dates he has given over the last few years. If he has never really believed in those ship dates himself...
Atticus
To the Droolmaster,

I've been wondering how you're liking your Chimera synths. I know you move your gear on quickly when you don't click with it and I haven't seen you sell your Chimera stuff yet. Are they keepers?

Cheers.
richard
Quote:
"i think personally he well may be beginning to see his business fail on a financial level - mention of bank managers and new machines suggests to me also new investment - the reason you have no refund is as he has no cash - he draws in more orders than he can handle and downpayments and then this cash gets watered down i feel , he doesnt have enough time and where is your orders cash ? yeah - he doenst have it so no refund . . . .its the same old story - no cash investment or not enough and taking to many orders - these guys all have to limit the orders they take - they get to greedy. I personally wouldnt trust him with any money right now - i think he is another cash liability waiting to fold......"


Do you have any evidence for any of that? I just ask because normally new investment is seen as a postive thing, the opposite of taking the money and running.

BC has been a real pain in the ass to deal with and I agree with you that I wouldn't recommend anyone to give him money at the moment, but even so your post looks to me full of groundless scaremongering. I really don't see how that helps anyone in these kinds of situations

Richard
Nuuj
Well, there are only a few reasons I can think of why I haven't received my refund that I asked for over a month ago, and why other people have had to resort to legal means to get theirs:

A. He doesn't have the money.
B. He doesn't want to give me my money back out of spite.
C. He's so overwhelmed with orders that he can't for some reason fulfill that he never gets around to it.
D. He for some reason wants bad word of mouth.

Nuuj
droolmaster0
Atticus wrote:
To the Droolmaster,

I've been wondering how you're liking your Chimera synths. I know you move your gear on quickly when you don't click with it and I haven't seen you sell your Chimera stuff yet. Are they keepers?

Cheers.


I really like the bc8, and really liked the bc16. I've put them aside for now, as I've gotten a huge influx of euro stuff that I've been playing with. My first impressions were very favorable, though, and I have no intention of unloading them.
Atticus
droolmaster0 wrote:
I really like the bc8, and really liked the bc16. I've put them aside for now, as I've gotten a huge influx of euro stuff that I've been playing with. My first impressions were very favorable, though, and I have no intention of unloading them.


Cheers for that. I hope the BC16s start flowing out of the Chimera factory soon.
droolmaster0
My impression, which isn't a commentary on the right or wrong of it, was that to avoid alienating new customers, he's formed 2 separate queues - one for new buyers, and one for the old ones. So (luckily for me, but probably infuriating to old customers who still haven't gotten their's) I got mine relatively quickly, but he hasn't gotten to the end of the > year old orders yet.
rob.ocelot
droolmaster0 wrote:
My impression, which isn't a commentary on the right or wrong of it, was that to avoid alienating new customers, he's formed 2 separate queues - one for new buyers, and one for the old ones. So (luckily for me, but probably infuriating to old customers who still haven't gotten their's) I got mine relatively quickly, but he hasn't gotten to the end of the > year old orders yet.


You're probably right on that account, droolmaster0. I also think that he tends to send units to people who are prominent names in the synth world. Many synth blog owners had no problems getting theirs for those early(?) reviews *summer 2008*. Depeche Mode had no problems getting at least one. I'm not sure why I was blessed enough to get one and a BC-8 so quickly, no one knows me from a hole in the ground. That said, I'm still waiting for a second BC-16, a BC-X, and an SM-16.

Yeah, I know. I'm a glutton for punishment. very frustrating

Damn it. I love the BC-16. It plays so nice with my Grendel Drone Commander and Autonomous Bassline Synth. Why does it have to be like pulling teeth to get one? seriously, i just don't get it
droolmaster0
the sm-16 sounds really interesting - but I'll wait until they are shipping - if so, perhaps order one during the winter.
ix
i dont wish to scare people off , follow your heart.I have no evidence for what i say accept my own truth , business experience .......I just wonder what refusing to refund people , ignoring emails and non delivery suggests to others about his cashflow or business and financial condition ? yes its scary , the truth sometimes is.I guess the best way to help you guys is to ignore the thread........or post and say it will all be fine , he is flowing with cash and the reason he cant email or refund and hasnt sent goods is because he simply doesnt wish to.



richard wrote:
Quote:
" I personally wouldnt trust him with any money right now - i think he is another cash liability waiting to fold......"

Do you have any evidence for any of that? I just ask because normally new investment is seen as a postive thing, the opposite of taking the money and running.

BC has been a real pain in the ass to deal with and I agree with you that I wouldn't recommend anyone to give him money at the moment, but even so your post looks to me full of groundless scaremongering. I really don't see how that helps anyone in these kinds of situations

Richard
Nuuj
Looks like I'm not alone in waiting for a refund:

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=201

I would expect Ben to ban this person from his forum and remove this post shortly...
OculoRapido
It looks like the latest "sit-rep" hasn't been reflected here.

Ben followed last week's latest word about impending shipping notices for bc16s, with new word this week that he was now going to put all units in aluminum 'unibody' chassis. Also, there was oblique mention of moving out of a previous location, along with news of yet another new machine capable of working titanium (!).

I believe the Brit term for an appropriate response would be "gob-smacked".

Predictably, some people in his more recent bc16 order queue (not those with outstanding orders from spring-summer 2008) are um... drooling publicly (sorry droolmaster ;-) over the very idea of candy-colored gear...

But wait, there's more! How about a bc9 and a new sequencer design to go with it?

Gotta admit, that's one heck of a creative excuse set for the latest silences and missed 'deadlines', but it also sounds like a pretty lame recycling of a 'bait-and-switch' tactic aimed at getting new orders while excusing unfulfilled orders from the first half of 2008.

Let me guess what's next: Opting for a unibody will bring down an indefinite delay because the desired colors one "must" choose are backlogged, and opting for the originally advertised white plastic chassis is problematic because they can no longer be fitted with whatever boards have been assembled and tested. Also, in the new year, how about a shortage on bc16 knobs being used for the newly 'released' products. And maybe an anodizer or other new part supplier coming up short....

The mind boggles.

Good luck to us all!

DB
(bc16 investor since 7/2008)
legionhwp
Title sez it. I am selling a few cool weird things to make room for my own builds of cool weird things smile

BC16 patchable synth. Great shape, comes with handful of the original patch cables. I made a legend of all the jacks and knobs which fits in the center which makes it MUCH easier to use which I will include. I waited over a year and have played it a bit but am now working with the feedback synth more and more and simply don't need this.

Asking $325 plus shipping (or pick up in Phila pa) USPS MO or Paypal (buyer pays fees).

References out the wazoo. Any questions, just ask.

Will ship *immediately* upon payment. No wait, no lie.

smile
coilsandco
This just gets worse and worse and worse.
rob.ocelot
huargh...

I'm getting sick of this shit. The number of times he's redesigned the BC-16, moved to a larger factory, and bought new milling machinery totals more than the actual number of these things he's shipped.

This close --> || to canceling my standing orders.
coilsandco
rob.ocelot wrote:
huargh...

I'm getting sick of this shit. The number of times he's redesigned the BC-16, moved to a larger factory, and bought new milling machinery totals more than the actual number of these things he's shipped.

This close --> || to canceling my standing orders.


Me too.

Wasn't it about this time last year that the hold up was caused by the installation of his pick and place machine? The pick and place machine that was going to have all back orders out the door 'by the end of the month'?

The guy is either
a) Completely dishonest
or
b) Utterly incompetent

This last round of bullshit has me very close to demanding a refund on my outstanding orders. I've given him the benefit of the doubt in the past, but I'm really fucking angry about this now.
OculoRapido
Ben has just posted a note on his forum's bc16 thread about recent "issues" delaying things yet again, saying he was trying to contact everyone by "tonight" (now, GMT?). Instructions are to email him if you don't receive an email from him.

His latest claim is that "nearly" every bc-16 order from 2008 should be filled in the next two weeks (or so). He's saying these will be from black or silver "unibody" units, and a few original white plastic units are available. So much for the week's earlier 'choose your color' scheme.

All this follows a mercifully brief discussion he initiated about getting better customer service (by/and) finding commercial distributors for his designs.

Good luck to us all!

['DB]
Nuuj
OculoRapido wrote:
Instructions are to email him if you don't receive an email from him.
['DB]


This creates another excuse not to deliver to anyone who doesn't email him.
Perhaps he's lost his order list and no longer even knows who he owes gear or refunds too?
rob.ocelot
Got my email from him. It's basically promising unibody black anodized BC-16's within a week or two. If you want a silver or original lucite one then you would have to mail them.

I'll wait this one out to see if a BC-16 comes from it but that is my final line drawn in the sand. I don't mind the year+ waiting, it's the unrealistic promises that piss me off the most.

Yes, complications do arise on a daily basis especially with small companies. If your only piece of key machinery is down for a few days then that stops everything to a halt, and I feel his pain in those instances. I take it that he tried to basically wear as many hats as possible in this company (design, prototyping, production, QA, marketing, customer support) and no human can multitask that many jobs and do any one of them even remotely half-assed. He needed to hire someone (besides his wife) a year ago when the orders really started to stream in. When things got shitty in one part of the operation (production) he'd go back to design and prototyping and come up with awesome new shit. Great for him but now he has hundreds of customers waiting. Promising us a specific date and then not honoring it because it was in no way realistic just stomps on us as already paid customers.

Sometimes I wish he only made 100 of these and built them already. His temptation to tinker has resulted in everything being redesigned and thus overengineered by 200%.
OculoRapido
Yeah, I just got my bc16 email, like rob.o.

About the email, I'd only add that it included a lengthy justification (sales pitch) for the necessity of redesigning his new unibody chassis, virtually dismissing the many months this year that he stated the bc16s were assembled and on hold only for testing.

I continue to be somewhat surprised at how a few people (once pissed) are still cutting him major slack for understandable small business high-tech issues (that not-quite-mysteriously arose, repeatedly, AFTER he said that production was going smoothly and backorders were shipping within weeks)...

Given that most of the earlier Chimera Synthesis orders (like mine) were officially handled through his Fisher Robotics business, why are people so certain that ONLY his synth production is included in his impractical 'single guy' business (ahem) 'model'? His SMPTE Time Tool L and Timeslate products still seem to be advertised with some commercial video equipment distributors, and it is easy to see how he would want such distribution for his many unshipped synth designs (Hence the earlier discussion...)

ENOUGH! You'd think that some folks are plugging their early-ship switcheroo bc8s into deep-brain self-stimulation electrodes, given continuing gush about genius designs excusing fraudulent-appearing INTERNATIONAL business practices. eek!

Good luck to us all.

['DB]
Nuuj
I too got the long email. For once the excuses are detailed enough to at least seem plausable. In addition I also got a follow up personal email stating that Viv will be processing my refund next week.

Fingers crossed.
coilsandco
very frustrating
transfixer
hi guys,

i've also got the mail concerning the choice of the new unibody colour scheme.
my order was made in march 09. i don't want a refund despite everything i saw on the chimera forum. in my country (romania) there is almost a national habit to lie to people and to behave unreliably. i'm not particulary proud of that either, but things like patcheable (semi)modular synths are also pretty much inexistent here, so that i really have no choice and have to accept bc's lousy customer service. besides that i got somehow used to the endless wait (i got over the initial frustration), and after i'll get the bc16 beast i would perhaps compulsory behave in an pavlovian way.
by the way i think i want a bc8 too. maybe i'll find a used one here or on chimera forum.
there are a lot of tempting products on the chimera site. the breathcontroller, the bcx or the modular he plans to design in the "near future".
i suggested bc (and tom bugs as well) to design euro/jack-versions of their modules. the demand pressure is huge in this area.
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
mono-poly
A friend off my is stil waiting for his for like 4 years now.
Nuuj
yet another week has passed without a refund...
Nuuj
Perhaps the anodizing didn't turn out so well?
Mr White
guys,
when I ordered the BC8 I got it in almost one week.
then I waited like 10 months for my BC16 but I finally got it, so it's a mere question of time...
Nuuj
Small businesses go under every day.
When one orders a product from any business there is always a chance they will go out of business before you get your order.
transfixer
you're right, but on the other side, the most experimental stuff is made by small companies and their products are made and tested manualy with love and care.
smile
opsysbug
What are you talking about ?!
This guy is running a scam pure and simple and has been running it for almost two years now fueled by our gear lust and wishful thinking.
There IS NOT any product being delivered. 5 minutes on his forum
makes that quite obvious. REPEAT-there IS NO product. He does not
even bother to make pictures anymore. He may have shipped 10 BC
16's at one point and a lot of BC8's but otherwise NOTHING !
Transfixer-I noticed you are waiting for both Chimera product and one of
Randell's cases. Something funny here ? Or just bad luck ?
ix
i am not sure its quite a scam - bens just another take take take human , in the end time and space will remedy this idiots business and he will go bankrupt , thats what happens to people like him , if you keep taking and not giving eventually your world collapses bigtime.Just dont send him money and realise that most of what he says is a fantasists lie.....

opsysbug wrote:
What are you talking about ?!
This guy is running a scam pure and simple and has been running it for almost two years now fueled by our gear lust and wishful thinking.
There IS NOT any product being delivered. 5 minutes on his forum
makes that quite obvious. REPEAT-there IS NO product. He does not
even bother to make pictures anymore. He may have shipped 10 BC
16's at one point and a lot of BC8's but otherwise NOTHING !
Transfixer-I noticed you are waiting for both Chimera product and one of
Randell's cases. Something funny here ? Or just bad luck ?
opsysbug
Yes sir. You are right on.
georgios
I do not think that its right to acusse Ben,i know he is always late on delivery and wrong on estimating dates...but nevertheless he loves what he does and the products are amazing,i have received a BC16 and 2 Bc8 and all i can say is woow...give the guy a brake,he is a one man show and not a big coorperation...If you dont like it just dont order from him!but if uou can wait ....nanners


Good things come to those who wait thumbs up
Nuuj
Well, I've been waiting for my refund since Sept.


Assuming that there is some truth to his claims in November, my guess is that he either once again spoke too soon and still has no working manufacturing line capable of producing the goods that he owes many people, or he has run into issues with his creditors and simply can't afford to finish production or make the refunds he owes to his customers who have financed his failed manufacturing lines.

For those who may be thinking of giving up and asking for a refund, I can't recommend it...
ix
unbelievable - yeah the guy can do no wrong ,,,,,,what kind of fucking drugs are you on ? its all the customers fault for over expectation then and ben ? ah hes innocent - the guys a selfish wanker. . . lets keep it simple.


quote="georgios"]I do not think that its right to acusse Ben,i know he is always late on delivery and wrong on estimating dates...but nevertheless he loves what he does and the products are amazing,i have received a BC16 and 2 Bc8 and all i can say is woow...give the guy a brake,he is a one man show and not a big coorperation...If you dont like it just dont order from him!but if uou can wait ....nanners


Good things come to those who wait thumbs up[/quote]
opsysbug
georgios wrote:
I do not think that its right to acusse Ben,i know he is always late on delivery and wrong on estimating dates...but nevertheless he loves what he does and the products are amazing,i have received a BC16 and 2 Bc8 and all i can say is woow...give the guy a brake,he is a one man show and not a big coorperation...If you dont like it just dont order from him!but if uou can wait .... sad banana


Good things come to those who wait thumbs up


Oh my lord. This is why it just perpetuates ! very frustrating
OculoRapido
Deja vu, deja vu.

True dat, ix and opsysbug! georgios = tool

DB (bc16 co-dependent since 07/2009)
science
It seems the worse you treat your clients and run your business, and the more you lie to them, the larger the number of people who will crawl out of the woodwork to defend you and kiss your ass.

Seems to work well in the synth world, at least.
georgios
Hahahaha... people i do not need to to kiss anybodys ass, i already have what i wanted to buy ..remember razz ?

I have the right to have my opinion, and i m not insulting anyone about this so PLEASE DO GROW UP.

i aprecciate Bens work and thats that.What i do not aprecciate is you all insulting me.-
opsysbug
So how many false shipping dates/lies did you receive before you got the BC16 and how long did it take ? And how long were you TOLD it would take?
I always make it a habit to "insult" people who try to lead others to a place where they might be taken for a $$ride. meh
georgios
Hi. i ordered it ,payed through google check out and had it in 2 weeks.june09 hihi
i dont know why hmmm.....
i was under the impression that almost all bc16 were delivered,,,
anyway im not a chimera forum member and i never check it out so...
and sorry i didnt want any1 to lose his $$$....
opsysbug
Surprise !
It took me 11 months and about 8-10 false date emails. One of them actually said "The box is sitting here ready to go, just have to trot down to the PO."
A month went by...!
Take a look at the forum. Some people waiting up to 16 months I think.
Didn't mean to be so harsh but please do not "tell all your friends" as they
will probably be out of $$ and out of synth for quite a while.
georgios
Actually at the same period 3 of my friends ordered and recieved!!
Yes i checked out the forum...seems really bad !i cant believe there are people from 2008 still waiting d'oh!
Why is this hapenning? its wierd...i thought long delays ment a year the most...thats really f@#$!$....
Mr White
it seems that very early backorders have waited much more than later ones... fortunately it seems that BC is on its way to get out of the situation, I waited 10 months too for my bc16, it's only a bad business, not a scam...
Nelson Baboon
georgios wrote:
Hi. i ordered it ,payed through google check out and had it in 2 weeks.june09 hihi
i dont know why hmmm.....
i was under the impression that almost all bc16 were delivered,,,
anyway im not a chimera forum member and i never check it out so...
and sorry i didnt want any1 to lose his $$$....


Well, during that period of time, I think that people who ordered got their stuff pretty quickly. I was one of them. However also, during that time, there were still people who had ordered months previously, who didn't get their stuff. I think that the problem has been that he has been better with new customers, but some (how many?) who ordered before about june 09 are not getting care of.

You need to realize that people who feel (with some justification) that they have been lied to and ripped off by a manufacturer are not going to take kindly to be told that they are overreacting, and should just wait, especially by someone who perhaps does not know the fact.
Nuuj
[quote="Mr White (Mr Yellow)"fortunately it seems that BC is on its way to get out of the situation, ..[/quote]

What evidence exists to support this claim?
There have been no reports of anybody getting anything for months and Ben's word has zero credibility at this point.
rob.ocelot
georgios wrote:
Actually at the same period 3 of my friends ordered and recieved!!
Yes i checked out the forum...seems really bad !i cant believe there are people from 2008 still waiting d'oh!
Why is this hapenning? its wierd...i thought long delays ment a year the most...thats really f@#$!$....


I can tell you why this is happening.

Ben basically underestimated the cost of making his products. He has since raised prices and newer customers who pay more make him more profit. The early customers who paid less net him little, no, or negative profit so he doesn't seem particularly arsed to give them what they paid for. The situation is made worse by the rise in cost of materials and postage in the two years since Chimera was formed.

Ben has stated openly on the forums that he took a loss on the early BC-16's. I don't think he particularly cares even if an early customer gets fed up and wants a refund since he's basically used that money for investment income or to finance new machinery in the interim. That's one less BC-16 he has to build that loses him money anyway. He's granted a few refunds but there have been a few instances where he's gone strangely silent for days/weeks/months when people start asking for their money back.

But, when the rabble starts to get antsy he suddenly pulls a paper rabbit out of his arse, shows some new wicked prototypes, makes a ton of promises and sucks some more gear lusters into the fold. I can't see this process going on indefinitely. It's going to reach a point where he's got more pissed off customers than loyal ones and his reputation will suffer. He'll likely then jump ship into another electronics related field and start the process over again under a different name. Probably even quicker, since the synth business has given him a LOT of fancy new milling, soldering, and manufacturing equipment.

** The above is only speculation on my part, but he's done a similar thing in two other fields before -- the steadycam industry and robotics.
Nuuj
It seems obvious that Ben does not what to simply be a maker of boutique synths, he really wants to be a manufacturer, only he clearly lacks the skills to determine how to manufacture his designs in a cost effective manner. His decisions to send some gear to more recent customers and not give refunds to some customers, may have something to do with how he is doing his accounting. If he were to refund my order today he would still actually make a profit due to how the exchange rates have changed since my order in March.
Nuuj
My email to Ben just bounced.
Perhaps he's making a run for it and his last update was just to give him time to make his get away...



Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

Subject: RE: bC16 refund
Sent: 12/9/2009 9:20 AM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

bc@chimera-synthesis.com on 12/9/2009 9:23 AM
The message could not be delivered because the recipient's destination email system is unknown or invalid. Please check the address and try again, or contact your system administrator to verify connectivity to the email system of the recipient.
< wvmler3.mail.xerox.com #5.1.2 SMTP; 550 Host unknown>
wetterberg
your email address has a dash in it - are you sure it's not chimerasynthesis.com , like the website?
Nuuj
that bounces too.

Others are seeing the same thing:

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=208


This may be the end of the line...
OculoRapido
Carrying on droolmaster's point, at that time, I was one of the many people with orders from 2008 (July for me). What we had already seen at that point was several cycles of bc promising all back orders shipping in 2-3 weeks, accompanied by taking new orders. A few of the older orders might have been filled with each cycle, along with more of the new.

With each cycle, Ben earned some happy newbie customers (and online protestations of "awesome'), while the 2008 investors felt punk'd. Good people like opsysbug ended up feeling guilty for their "luck", when their backorders were filled while many others got nothing. Looks like he's been over-selling his original production run repeatedly over a year.

I think we are in cycle 6. After the last redesign of the bc16 case, with purchase of computer milling machine, I think we 'investors' from 2008 have cut Ben enough slack and good will after he repeatedly stiffed us with his prevarications and promises.

The chimera forum currently has a thread about bc's email address no longer being valid.

Please tell me what the definition of "scam" is in this context? Think outside the Wiki on this one....

Good luck to us all.

DB
science
I've never been quite clear on when people in the synth world would consider something theft or a scam. There seems to be some widespread belief that small manufacturers should be allowed an unlimited amount of time to deliver a product. It also seems that people think it's ok for these scumbags to lie to them repeatedly during that time.
OculoRapido
Dunno how widespread that belief really is, given that more than a few people told Ben last year and this year that lengthy delays and all the rest weren't acceptable. There were several pretty public wrangles over refunds on the Forum in the last year.

For my years of dealing with single proprietor synth manufacturers, I've never encountered anything like this.

DB

http://www.youtube.com/OculoRapido

Dark Energy + Steel Moog (in dronespace):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMFQgUmbqFE

"science":
http://anatlab.medsch.ucla.edu/
science
A few examples of people bending over and spreading cheeks with a smile for people who treat their customers like Ben does...

Plan B (at least for a while, people were still defending that piece of shit)
synthcase.com (until recently, he had many people defending his actions)
COTK

.........

There are others, but they aren't as extreme, and don't deserve to be associated with the three listed above.
OculoRapido
Must be the source of that strange burning feeling cry

I notice that Plan B currently still has a much more awesome meh web site than Chimera Synthesis. But there's nothing like a slick storefront to draw in the new millenium 'investors'.

opsysbug and I shared some psychopathology notes about all this elsewhere earlier in the year.

Because Ben had 'genius' designs, and a laid-back attitude toward time has high social value, bc would get understanding statements from people when he sporadically confessed to being better at designing than at customer support (echoing some customer's comments).

The chimerasynths forum currently seems to be offline...

Hmmm. Doesn't 'the act of selling the same item over and over to different marks' have a formal name as a scam or confidence game?

Good luck to us all!

DB
rob.ocelot
Forum is now dead as well. This isn't looking good.

It could be a server/ISP issue but the way I understand it his email and forum are hosted by two separate entities.
ix
Why did he ignore earlier orders and people and fullfill newer ones ? can anyone tell me why he would do that ? ignore people who paid in 2008 and fullfill later orders from 2009 ?guilt doesnt come into it and neither does luck - this was ben chimera playing people off against each other.....
best way to fight a pr war against bad customer complaints is with new happy customers posting saying - well i got mine.....whats the problem..... very clever .You guys shouldnt feel guilty if you got a module whilst someone waiting longer gets nothing - it wasnt luck - it was bens choice to send new orders out and ignore older orders and a very deliberate move.SEE THROUGH........

Quote:
With each cycle, Ben earned some happy newbie customers (and online protestations of "awesome'), while the 2008 investors felt punk'd. Good people like opsysbug ended up feeling guilty for
their "luck", when their
rob.ocelot
It looks like he's taken the forum down since forumer isn't having any problems with the others they host. Ben had done this once before when people started complaining openly on the forum.

The forum came back online but most of the 'offending' posts were removed (with the explanation that they were 'adding upgrades' to the forum). That time however we could still contact Ben via email.

This time I have no idea what the fuck to think.
opsysbug
Oh yea. Forum down. Email down. The usual state of affairs in CS
world. Maybe "him and the wife" are "trotting down to the PO" to ship
out another "large order" of BC16's and SM whateverfuckers.
It's doubtful though...
Nuuj
He replied to me from his Fisher Robotics email.
He says in the email and on the Chimera forum that some sort of mix-up happened with his domain renewal. His new deadline for a refund is before xmas and he gave me an option to take a "ready to ship" white BC16 instead.
OculoRapido
From the restored chimera forum this morning:

"Thanks chaps,

I have been away for a couple of days (sorting some tech stuff out with aluminium anodising). Our email should be working properly today, we renewed our domain hosting the other day, and they missed off renewing one of our domain names.

Our email and original website is hosted by one company in the UK (www.Chimera-Synthesis.com), the email was routed by these chaps, however "chimera-synthesis.com" was pointed at our moonfruit hosted domain "www.chimerasynthesis.com". We kept the original hosting as it supports PHP etc... which we need for the revised website that's been under construction for along time now (you can do things like live order tracking from the PHP site).

I hope that makes sense.

BC
_________________
BC, Chimera Synthesis"

d'oh!
Of course, blame it on the moonfruit.

No response to the questions about his new customer support person (Vivienne; his wife?) who was supposed to be contacting all us most recent 'aluminum case switch' email recipients.

We have surely exceeded his latest 'promise' of 2-3 weeks shipping all backorders. Not that anyone was seriously expecting that, eh? Predicting not filling any backorders until (well after) the New Year seemed like such ummm... well... low-hanging moonfruit.

Sorting "tech stuff" is not exactly a new 'scuse for his 'tech-challenged' customers, either Frankly, I still want to know why he didn't design for V/OCT CVs so that the bc16 could be used with other popular analog gear... meh

Live order tracking with PHP? Whoa, Nelly! That will surely improve customer support, wouldn't you say? I'll have to think about that hard, while I bring up moodle (Apache/MySQL/PHP collab support system) on the new Mac Mini OS X server I installed to replace my blue-smoke-emitting Xserve, whut died after 7 years serving a med school....

d'oh!

Good luck to us all.

DB
ix
any idea ?

Quote:
Why did he ignore earlier orders and people and fullfill newer ones ? can anyone tell me why he would do that ? ignore people who paid in 2008 and fullfill later orders from 2009 ?
Nuuj
ix wrote:
any idea ?

Quote:
Why did he ignore earlier orders and people and fullfill newer ones ? can anyone tell me why he would do that ? ignore people who paid in 2008 and fullfill later orders from 2009 ?



After a certain amount of time not getting one's order a customer is apt to become disgruntled. A disgruntled customer is unlikely to be a repeat customer. A business needs repeat customers to remain in business. By this logic it makes more sense to fill recent orders before old orders.

Other possibilities I can think of are spite, incompetent book keeping, possible financial accounting manipulation and just poor decision making.
Umcorps
ix wrote:
any idea ?

Quote:
Why did he ignore earlier orders and people and fullfill newer ones ? can anyone tell me why he would do that ? ignore people who paid in 2008 and fullfill later orders from 2009 ?



What was the price of the BC16 when the would be early adopters put down their money in 2007/8?

What was the price of the later orders in 2009 that were fulfilled?

There's no profit for him in the early orders. They just provide him with some free credit.

Sad to say, I really do think it's that simple.
Fidgit
chimera-synthesis.com is currently automatically redirected to chimerasynthesis.com.

however, it's missing an "order" button. i bet it will be implemented very soon. hihi

Quote:
(you can do things like live order tracking from the PHP site)


i wish there was something to track first... Rage!
up to now all we can track are BCs lies of the day. The MSN Smack!

this is by no means better than the whole planB desaster
OculoRapido
I feel like sungja--just want this to be over...

Is it worth developing a list here of people with unfilled orders from 2008 (me: July) ?

I just had email from the man , and he seems to have a few plastic units on hand (for impending refunders, or?). He relates to having to ditch a lot (!?) of anodized cases, as well as turning his new milling machine loose on the 'classic plastic' case. Clearly a challenge to my sense of guilt, eh opsysbug? meh

The beat goes on. d'oh!

Maybe Ben will finally take my challenges from the last year and "prove me wrong by shipping"...

(We need a flying pig emoticon)

Good luck to us all.

DB

Remember this from May '09? VCOnet vs the Drone Racks: A Dirge for BC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYjRVFK6mSw
rob.ocelot
Umcorps wrote:
ix wrote:
any idea ?

Quote:
Why did he ignore earlier orders and people and fullfill newer ones ? can anyone tell me why he would do that ? ignore people who paid in 2008 and fullfill later orders from 2009 ?



What was the price of the BC16 when the would be early adopters put down their money in 2007/8?

What was the price of the later orders in 2009 that were fulfilled?

There's no profit for him in the early orders. They just provide him with some free credit.

Sad to say, I really do think it's that simple.


Intro price Nov/Dec 2007 was $220 US
Price now in 2009 is ~$360 US

Add to that Ben's comments about the early BC-16 costing HIM almost $600 each to make (this I assume includes his complete redesign in Feb 2008, his second redesign in July 2008, the socket availability problems, his failure rate for both electronics and the milling process, the increase in price for basic parts, purchase of new machines to make BC-16's).

Anyone wonder now why he's dragging his ass on the old orders?

I'm also kinda gobsmacked that he stopped selling the BC-8 after barely a year, seeing as it was like bread and butter to him because he could make them quickly and they didn't seem to hang around in stock all that long. That synth was a moneymaker unless he made a complete assclown move and sold them at a loss to generate some happy customers and possible future sales of more lucrative stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case given the actual reality of the BC-16 numbers (and not some bizzaro alternate universe where he actually made more than one of those a month).

The mooted BC-9 that is supposed to replace the BC-8 is still a no show and you would think he'd have that ready to go the minute he sold the last BC-8. Surprise!! Two months later he magically pulls a batch of (defunct?) BC-8's out of his arse with a story that one of his suppliers accidentally gave him more parts. uhm... ya.

The other real issue is that he seems to be raising his prices in the hopes that early buyers won't ask for refunds and then rebuy them when the units actually exist in this physical reality. Gotta love THAT model of economics -- disincentive investment? Not sure what to call it.
opsysbug
I'm supposin' in the email there was a bunch of pictures of those silvery multicolored BC16's and the SM37 and the ST9 and BC9 special "blower"
edition and that awesome "modular" thing and the "Big Wind" controller
and the new combo "Sequencery/slicer/synth/midi/handjobber" that comes in a special edition if you JUST PUT YOUR MONEY DOWN NOW ! I hear that thing does "midi" and the "filters" are to die for and blah blah blah.... evil
OculoRapido
Nope, no pitchurs, jst txt...
OculoRapido
PS. rob.o - he didn't raise the later bc16 price that much (~10%) from my summer 2008 Paypal 'grant', so I don't know that he was raising that much more $$...

Model, schmodel... though I guess I know people who've made serious careers modeling chaos. d'oh! I prefer the m@nic s0ci0p@thic gee-knee-us model, meself.

Maybe a telling question is how he could manage to pay for a P&P and a milling machine with his sales practice.

Don't bogart that gobsmacker, pass it over to me!

GLTUA! ambulance

DB
seth
Umcorps wrote:
What was the price of the BC16 when the would be early adopters put down their money in 2007/8?

I paid US$269 each for a bC16 and SM16 in May 2008. I recently got my bC16, in September of this year.

I wasn't at all concerned with the length of time it took. I wasn't even all that upset that I got about five "it's shipping" notices. I thought it was a bit bizarre and somewhat frustrating, but I never thought I was being ripped off. I know many others feel differently though.

I'm hoping I get my sequencer someday. If it's a year from now, I'll survive. If it's next week, I'll be very happy. Ain't holding my breath for it, though, that's for sure.

(And let me say that by "this year" I mean September 2009. Just in case you're reading this in 2010. Or later.)
OculoRapido
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
science
sungja wrote:
It almost seems like he is trying to piss off his customers

Why not? People seem to eat that shit up when they're buying synths, especially if it's a "boutique" item. It gets them off to be abused, especially when they have a chance to take the spot of "defender of the master", to prove that they enjoy the abuse more than anyone else. Make them lick the bottom of your shoe and they'll be humping your leg in no time.

Quote:
I honestly dont think he will ever get his act together!

He doesn't need to, because his potential customer base is full of people who will never learn.
coilsandco
From the looks of things on the Chimera forum, it appears that emails to Ben are bouncing and nobody is answering the phone. Its not looking good...
Nuuj
He's updated his site:

http://www.chimerasynthesis.com/#/bc16-patchable-synth/4529526548

"delivery time:
bC16 (WHITE): less than 7 days
bC16 (UNIBODY): 2-3 weeks"

I've told BC that I'm willing to accept just about anything of equal value to my order, but that I would still prefer a refund.
mono-poly
What a douchebag.
My buddy is waiting for aprox 3 years for his now.
wetterberg
*cough* if I had been jerked around for 3 years, and many others had too I'd be organizing a DDoS at this point. Shit.
OculoRapido
We'll see (fat chance) about the 7 days bit. He offered me a white unit the end of last week, and as I've posted elsewhere I'm (still) not holding my breath. I can just see it, shipping to the US Christmas week ;-)

His intended shipping notice probably also 'excuses' taking new orders (as noted before in this thread), and we may see whether he fills many of those to his advantage before all his lingering 2007-2008 backorders.

As many times before, some people might be hoping for him to clear everything up this one last time. Redemption for the holidays, even.

hmmm.....

Good luck to us all!

DB
rob.ocelot
*3 years?*

Am I miscounting something? The BC-16 was introduced in November 2007. It's now late 2009.

That's two years, unless there is something very very wrong with the space-time continuum. Are we going to blame Ben for that too? hihi
Fnord
Take legal action sooner rather than later.
Period.
Soapbox
Nuuj
Does anyone have any ideas of what are the best legal options in such cases for those of us in the USA? Should we contact the US Embassy?
opsysbug
BBB- Better Business Bureau for a start I think and if you search internet fraud online there are some places that do international. If you can find his address I'd call the police in his area if possible.
OculoRapido
(Incipient sound of crow being eaten) d'oh!

Umm, maybe opsysbug can help me parse this. I got a bc16 shipping notice from Ben today, 16 months after ordering.

If you scroll upward, you can see my posting about "fat chance" and "shipping to the US Christmas week".

After 5 times challenging him to 'prove me wrong' by shipping backorders, I get this. huh?

So what you say Brian? Will this be another round of shipping a few back orders and more recent orders, or is Ben FINALLY making good as legal threats loom? Could I be the "tool" this loop, georgio?

Tune in next time (if you can stand all the tension).

Good luck to us ALL.

DB
opsysbug
Maybe it just means he built "one more".
Maybe each one takes like six months. There's probably only like 7
total. Pulled YOUR name out of the hat this time lol
But don't count on anything 'till you plug it in meh
OculoRapido
hmmm.....

Yeah. Heh. Yesterday, in apparent reply to some of the assertions previously made by folks wanting refunds, Ben also posted that there were "000s" of bc16s out there.

Hundreds, thousands, or multiple naughty-naughts? eek!

If I recollect, dallasv then posted the conclusion that Ben had merely been messing with public nay-sayers, and shipping to everyone else...

Speaking about plugging it in, opsysb, what about using it with other 'well-tempered' V/OCT synth gear? You know I do noise with a variety of gear, but you got any thoughts about bc16 CV patching to other modules? Clever Ben seemed to want people only to patch with his theoretical 0.53674 V/OCT (or whatever) standard for the evanescent SM-16... meh

I'm sure Duncan of RMI is espectially pleased with the latest 'news' about the sequencer (whatever dalasv might think about Ben's motivations for shipping backorders of other promised designs).

Dead Banana

Good luck to us all (whatever we ordered from Chimera).

DB
Rogan
hello everybody here,
i'm a synth frog, and i've ordered a BC-16 the 11 Feb. 2009
Tired to spend time on chimera's forum,
I've asked for a refund now for 10 days and still no clear infos from Chimera despite multiple email claims tentatives and posts....
strange is the fact they can't refund via Paypal what do you think?

i've sent bank information to BC today but still no answer...
i feel lost as i said on the official forum.

shame.... help

to be continued....

(i also noticed the PM function is disabled on the Chimera's forum...)
opsysbug
Do you think this guy is worth a "Don't buy from..." sticky ?
What do you need to do to earn one of those on this forum ?
ix
just keep bumping it daily i would say , i think plenty of people know the way ben works and his morality.Yeah he did well with some people wisely by ignoring old debts and complainers and delivering their orders to new customers , created a nice mixed message of ' well i got mine ' - whilst other older orders who have nothing curse him - created confusion and people keep sending him money .Hopefully he wont be in business much longer and eventually then these threads can die and fade away along with this selfish moron and his parasitic money making schemes.Happy new year ! : love but fuck cunts like ben chimera

ps happy new year and that includes ben who i hope finds a heart for humans he feeds off.


opsysbug wrote:
Do you think this guy is worth a "Don't buy from..." sticky ?
What do you need to do to earn one of those on this forum ?
Nuuj
I would deeply appreciate it if someone would post on:

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/

Asking when Nuuj will get his refund that he requested in Sept. of 2009.

It might be a good idea if the kind person who would do this already received their gear or refund from BC, as he may ban this person from his forum and/or drop them further down on the list.
Reality Checkpoint
Nuuj wrote:
I would deeply appreciate it if someone would post on:

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/

Asking when Nuuj will get his refund that he requested in Sept. of 2009.

It might be a good idea if the kind person who would do this already received their gear or refund from BC, as he may ban this person from his forum and/or drop them further down on the list.


I have just registered on the site and will ask when the account has been activated. I have not, nor ever will, order anything from Chimera. It is just that I am ashamed by the behaviour of a fellow countryman towards our global cousins. I will let you know what develops.
OculoRapido
Well, for those not following the chimerasythesis forum, I posted the following there last week:

"I hope he keeps this up with the other bc16 back orders. Clear them ASAP BEFORE the other 'new' gear/orders like SM-16, as dalasv rightfully demanded.

Don't know what to expect, timewise, for the good folks awaiting refunds. Perhaps one last offer (again) to ship a backordered unit, after prior months of no word on requested refunds.

There are still lots of balls in your court Ben: no more 'bollocks' to unhappy early 'investors' if you want 'redemption'.

Good luck to us all.

DB"

Ben clearly desires redemption (new business), but his handling of refunds clearly needs to change ASAP for him to find any small measure from angry backordered customers for his FIRST publicly offered 'flagship' product-bc16. He must bleed some green in order to get more orders to payoff his ongoing equipment and production expenses. The expectation stated (from previous 'cycles'), is that he would offer immediate shipping of an available bc16 in lieu of a refund, IF he chooses to contact the requester in a 'timely' fashion

As for the rest, well, there were the expected difficulties with the new design machine finish and anodizing, so the bc16 backorders converted to anodized cases are 'predicted' for Jan 2010. And for duncan and others awaiting the long promised SM16, another redesign and not much sense when THOSE backorders will be completed.

Rhetorical question: When did bait-and-switch redesigns become common practice in delaying shipping of synth products paid for on the basis of a public offering (with no disclaimers)?

As for 'social justice' demanded earlier in this thread, some folks understandably feel no redemption is possible and no forgiveness should be offered. Most of us just need to move on with creating music, letting this bullsh!t fade, and working any bc16 very hard to be worth all the aggravation caused by the business 'practices' of one bc.

Good luck to us all.

DB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtBrkbkO-E
mono-poly
rob.ocelot wrote:
*3 years?*

Am I miscounting something? The BC-16 was introduced in November 2007. It's now late 2009.

That's two years, unless there is something very very wrong with the space-time continuum. Are we going to blame Ben for that too? hihi


It's my bad it took 18 months to get them.
I just visited my buddy and he finaly got the 2 he did order.
mono-poly
BTW i'd love to have a pair to grin
rob.ocelot
I think when all this is over you could probably sell a BC-16 (if you actually got one) for enough money to cover the original unit price, the time you waited (plus interest), the aggravation involved + a tidy profit to boot.

That is, if anyone actually wants a Chimera after 2009, they are like the blood diamonds of the synth world at the moment. Probably only hardcore 'gotta haves' will really be lusting after it because of it's (artificial?) rarity.

I seriously think there's only 50 BC-16's in existence, and probably about 150-200 BC-8's. Over a two year span that's a pretty terrible fulfillment rate even for a one man operation.
opsysbug
Hell
I bet LESS then 50 BC16's. So few Youtube vids. So few samples online.
So many folks from the forum still waiting. I guess just the QUIET people
got them huh ? The ones that never play in public or make recordings or post anything...
OculoRapido
Quote:

Hell
I bet LESS then 50 BC16's. So few Youtube vids. So few samples online.
So many folks from the forum still waiting. I guess just the QUIET people
got them huh ? The ones that never play in public or make recordings or post anything...


huh?

Maybe more than just you and me holding off on making videos with the bc16 (or bc8), as long as bc is holding out on so many people for so long?

So what do you say: Should I do a "shoot-out" between the bc16 and Doepfer Dark Energy, when I 'luck out'? Free promotion for a "blood diamond" or a trial reckoning of whether his sh!t stands up against other synths?

hmmm.....

Good luck to us all.

DB
Nuuj
Would someone who can still post please tell this poor soul not to buy until all outstanding orders and refunds are fulfilled.

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=211&sid=3d5670be5b 2467b860efa003182767c3
seth
OculoRapido wrote:
Maybe more than just you and me holding off on making videos with the bc16 (or bc8), as long as bc is holding out on so many people for so long


I have a bit of audio from a few months ago on my blog. No video yet but I suppose I could do one if anyone wants to actually see one in action.
coilsandco
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=201


Morpion

Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 9



Brilliant, my posts are now being deleted are they?

Just to confirm, i've been waiting over two months, my emails are being ignored on the strength that I mentioned the word "legal" because I thought mthe sale of my house depended on me getting my money back ASAP, I'm now overdrawn, Ben sits there laughing about how clever he is because he will now only respond to something I send to him in writing while he keeps hold of my money, I can't afford a solicitor, I've got in touch with Trading Standards after being treated with complete contempt by this "professional businessman", and if I do need to take this further he is getting charged for any expenses I need to take out to get this finished with.

In the meantime, I need a working printer and time off work to sort this utter shambles out, through no fault of my own.

On top of this, while he says he's "too busy" to deal with my refund request, he's obviously got time to delete the posts I make here. Is that how you work Ben?
Nuuj
As soon as I asked for a refund on his forum he deleted the post and banned me. I wonder why he hasn't bothered to ban you yet?
OculoRapido
Resolved that we would all like Ben Fisher to honor requested refunds ASAP for long backordered bc16s (and other products paid for in 2008 and 2009). As well as clearing out his bc16 backorders in January, and shipping his existing SM16 and bcX &c backorders in a timely manner...

Issues still remain for those of us who have purchased his 'flagship' bc16 patchable synths. However, whether or not people feel online reviews, tracks, and videos would give undeserved free advertising to a company that has been publicly criticized for abusive customer support practices, potential customers deserve to know how the bc16 measures up to other compact synths currently available.

So what's a fair test setup? Guess it depends on a number of things. But for me, a start would be comparing the Doepfer Dark Energy to the bc16 under playing conditions. How well would the bc16 perform in the 'TB-303 clone' setting, driven by a MIDI sequencer? (We'll consider ambient/noise applications separately, because they tend to be less demanding, control-wise).

Over the last several months, I've been doing some YouTube 'test drives' with a Dark Energy ordered/delivered during the early summer 2009 cycle of bc16 backorder non-fulfillments. Here's a MIDI-interfacing, otherwise completely analog (Curtis CEM chip + discrete linear/analog circuits) compact monosynth in a single VCO, dual LFO, 24 db LP VCF, ADSR, and VCA configuration, with selected switch and I/O patchability. I've found it holds up very well indeed with (and versus) a Future Retro Revolution in the aforementioned TB-303 clone applications. http://www.youtube.com/OculoRapido

Since Ben quite surprisingly fulfilled my July 2008 bc16 order this week, I've finally had the chance to lay my hands on the long-promised little round, white knobby, as well as to study its functions. Part of the last two days has been spent experimenting with basic patches, and this morning, I spent some time recording tracks with the bc16 MIDI sequenced by my FR Revolution. The bc16 seems to be a bit tricky to configure, due to its design, so it will probably take me a little while to rig a test drive 'shootout' versus the Dark Energy... but stay tuned.

Here are a few preliminary thoughts and observations about the bc16 design/functions.

Superficially, the bc16 has 16 rotating knobs (like the DE), but with more basic plug/cable patchability of basic VCO/LFO/VCF/VCA/ADSR controls. The Chimera Synthesis online documentation and other specs sparingly describe a 2 VCO, 2 LFO configuration, with available ring modulator and noise, that might supposedly exceed the capabilities of the Dark Energy. Customers need to recollect Ben's online prose (no, not the cr@p about the inspiration of Bob Moog's passing, but) about his designs as chimeras, or combinations of digital and analog technologies.

Although I haven't cracked the case, the paired bc16 VCOs and LFOs seem to be implemented digitally, apparently with a dedicated DSP chip. In many ways, the sound generating core might be like the admittedly digital bc8 (that got produced and preferentially distributed as a 'profitable' distraction while our bc16 orders languished unfulfilled). Ben has characterized the VCA and LP VCF as being analog, which might attract folks currently in love with analog modular gear. In the Analogue Heaven 'purist' sense of predominantly analog(ue) audio processing pathways, the bc16 definitely ain't analog(ue).

As far as the bc16's analog components go, I'm finding the VCF to be quite 'hot', resonating like the DE's filter at a relatively low Q setting, knob-wise. However, there doesn't seem to be a lot of 'knob room' (or a full 4 pole effect) at the lower frequency settings. Practically, I'm not having nearly the same knob-twiddling fun with the bc16 filter as I have sweeping the Retro or Dark Energy cutoffs.

Ben has already admitted to his LM 386 VCA design as being 'weak', given (I guess) his 5V, single-ended power configuration. Practically speaking, I've had to use considerable amplification to use the bc16 with my existing Frac (+/- 15 V powered) racks, in contrast to easy plug-and-play with the FR Retro, Dark Energy, and other commercial synth gear. The 5V power has also been cited as the reason for the bc16's 0.586 V/OCT CV scale, which makes it much more difficult to use with many predominantly 1 V/OCT synth modules, such as my Frac, FR, and Doepfer gear.

On the DSP side, I'm finding that the bc16 LFO frequency range is disappointingly restricted at the high end, compared with the Dark Energy's switchable wide ranges (let alone compared to Blacet Micro LFOs). Perhaps given the split VCO programming and different available patches, the bc16 can get by with only a limited low frequency range on its LFO... Or maybe there's some functionality here that's just not apparent with the bc16's sparse documentation. (I don't even want to consider that a new version of the bc16 firmware could add LFO range, because who could see dealing with Chimera Synths for in-shop updates).

That's more than enough words for now. Let's see how the tracks and videos turn out over the next several weeks.

Best wishes to all for 2010!

['Doktor Bob]
Fnord
Once again, if you feel you are being ripped off, take legal action SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

Period.
I wish I had that mindset at the onset of the Plan B debacle.
You can thank me later.
OculoRapido
Yeah, if you've haven't gotten any bc noisemakers or refund/acknowledgements for your centi-bucks or -euros at this point, it sure may make a lot of sense to go legal. Most sense as a group action by the 'refusedniks'...

For me individually, thanks, but no, thanks?

As one who is finally (briefly?) free of dealing with lawyers on (not my own) lawsuits and felony fraud trials over the last 15 years, putting in too much more time on this would probably cost me more than the bc8 and bc16 are worth. Regardless of video value. I think it's called 'legal math'...

Besides, my prior personal testimony, here and elsewhere, is submissible.

Good luck to us all: there are bigger problems facing us than punishment of synth lust profiteers.

DB

Caveat emptor: the dirge plays on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYjRVFK6mSw
Fnord
I'm of the mindset that if it costs them too, it would be worth it to me. Even if they win, they still lose something.
kryptic
Has anyone ordered a BC8 from him recently? I wanted to place an order, but with all the hullabaloo, I wanted to check in with anyone who has ordered them recently first.

From what I understand, the BC8s usually ship right away, but for some reason the BC16s are taking...well, you guys already know.
NV
kryptic wrote:
Has anyone ordered a BC8 from him recently? I wanted to place an order, but with all the hullabaloo, I wanted to check in with anyone who has ordered them recently first.

From what I understand, the BC8s usually ship right away, but for some reason the BC16s are taking...well, you guys already know.


Not to be a prick, but this thread is 19 pages of people stating they have waited literally years for their orders coupled with misleading information, emails that go unanswered, deleted forum posts, and all sorts of annoyances. If you want to ignore all of this and place an order then go ahead, but I'm pretty sure you can close your eyes and point to nearly any random post in this thread for reasons why you shouldn't.
Nuuj
What would be nice would be if people who still want to order from Chimera would post on his forum that they will only do so once they know for sure that all outstanding orders and refunds have been satisfied.
Rogan
Got the refund yesterday!

i hope one day the process will be accurate enough to place an order!
i stay tuned!

I hope for those like me who have asked for a refund will be fullfilled soon.

All the best for 2010 to all!!!!
Nuuj
Rogan wrote:
Got the refund yesterday!

i hope one day the process will be accurate enough to place an order!
i stay tuned!

I hope for those like me who have asked for a refund will be fullfilled soon.

All the best for 2010 to all!!!!


Interesting that he had the time to go to the bank and process your refund, but not mine. Now that you have escaped, I would appreciate it if you'd mention my lack of a refund on his forum. It seems to me that the people who manage to make a big enough stink on his forum before getting banned and erased get their refunds. Those like myself who's posts he catches quick enough for anyone to notice, don't.
OculoRapido
Well, he's been reminded again about getting his refunds out as soon as possible.

While someone might still want to feel singled out by lack of a personal response at this particular time, there is a sense that still he has other people queued up for fulfillment from 2008 and earlier in 2009...,

Best of luck to us all.

DB
Nuuj
As of just now, I have a tracking number for a white BC16.

In the hope of getting anything for my money I gave BC the option of either going through with the refund I asked for or shipping my original order.

I'm tempted to sell it without even opening the package, but I guess I need to check if it works before selling it.
dalasv
Hah, funny to see so many familiar faces from the Chimera forums here! I just signed up for this forum because I'm thinking now that I will start working on a eurorack system instead of waiting forever for Ben to deliver these synths to me wink

I'm going to wait another month for the metal bC16 (don't want to switch to plastic, because I want the power supply), then I'll figure out what the best use of my money is. I also have a bCX on order, but I think it will probably never get produced.
Umcorps
Welcome Delas! Glad you found your way here. thumbs up
Nuuj
My white BC16 arrived yesterday.
Everything looks in order.
I plan to test it out tonight and then sell it.
Some folks locally have expressed interest, so I may let them try it out first.
One person from Muff has contacted me to buy it, so he is first on the list provided the price is right.

There is no way to tell for sure, but my guess is that if I had insisted on my demand for a refund I'd still be waiting. I also still think that there is no guarantee that those still waiting will ever get their orders or a refund.
OculoRapido
Early impression: bc16 filter resonates very easily (starting at about 40%) and the output is low (heard that before), so I had to amplify it 10x or more to use with my Frac mixers... Digital oscillators seem to do what they're supposed to, although the same apparent formula works with bc8 oscillators.

Real busy at work, so easy to resist doing some kind of YouTube shootout (though still planned) against Dark Energy with a Mobius Sequencer. Not much sense in doing regular CV with any of my gear, since it's fractional V/OCT with a single-ended, 5 V power supply.

Caveat emptor!

Interestingly, Ben is playing on like he's in big business with his sequencer and other products. Maybe there are always some new marks to take the chance.

Think the 'iPad' launch tomorrow is worth more attention, for someone with a pending iPhone app, let alone raving fanboys. ;-) Even Analogue Heaven got OT crazy over that last week!

Good luck to us all.

DB
rob.ocelot
OculoRapido wrote:
Early impression: bc16 filter resonates very easily (starting at about 40%) and the output is low (heard that before), so I had to amplify it 10x or more to use with my Frac mixers... \


Did you try running the +5V source to the amp? Took me a while to discover that (since Ben hasn't finished the manual for the frigging thing in *two years*) and I was turning the volume pot right up, not realizing what I was hearing was actually low level noise from the headphone jack.
transfixer
i'm also waiting for the black unibody bc16 but i plan to buy a bc8 as well. it seems there are some units in stock. i just wonder what my chances are to get it fast. i really don't want to wait another year. my order for bc16 was made in march 09 and in still waiting.
Rage!
dalasv
June of 2008 here. White bC16s seem obtainable right now. He's on the longest streak ever for fulfilling his promises, so maybe we'll see the unibody ones soon!
wetterberg
transfixer wrote:
i'm also waiting for the black unibody bc16 but i plan to buy a bc8 as well. it seems there are some units in stock. i just wonder what my chances are to get it fast. i really don't want to wait another year. my order for bc16 was made in march 09 and in still waiting.
Rage!
I'm sorry, but why would you want to support business like that?
Surely the best way to incentivize everyone getting their stuff is saying : "I wont buy from you now, if it means I'll be getting units others paid for a year ago without getting", right?
also, "It seems there are some units in stock" - I think Randal over at synthcase claims he can ship tomorrow on some things too, that does not make it right wink
dalasv
It's been a bumpy ride. I would have switched my order to the white one, but I figure after waiting this long, I'm willing to wait a little longer to have the metal version that accepts external power.

And I've had a bCX on order for a very long time as well. The reason I'm sticking with that one?

Supposedly, it can cycle through all of its possible patching configurations AT AUDIO RATES.

How insane is that??? Insane enough to justify waiting longer to hear it for myself.
transfixer
i already feel that after i've got the chimera i won't feel confortably having nothing to wait for...
so maybe i'll order a bcx too like dalasv did.
smile
transfixer
the way from frustration to addiction can be really short!
very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
Nuuj
One reason not to cancel an existing order with BC, is that you likely won't get the refund you ask for. I gave up waiting for my refund after four months and had him ship me a white BC16. Having made the plunge and bought a Monorocket Mission 9 in the time I was waiting for my BC16 I no longer need the Chimera and will be selling it.

I had ordered two inverters and he only shipped me one BTW.
I'm not going to waste my time asking for the other....
dalasv
I'm trying to get in line for a Mission9 myself.
OculoRapido
Well, now, I don't know about the current rationales for not asking for a refund from 'Dear Ben', as far as SM16 sequencer orders go...

The latest chapter in this theater of the absurd serial has just been read. SM16 orders are being 'converted to' orders for the newly concocted "Chimera Modular Synth" sequencer module, and the SM16 forum is locked (sorry, Duncan). BC is looking to subcontract fulfillment to others for other existing project orders. The bcX is on hold for other important projects. And, oh yeah, the monobody bc16s still are not shipping in any numbers because 'dear exacting Ben' is not satisfied with their quality yet.

Hmm, did I miss anything? Oh yeah, there was open discussion on the Forum of complaints to Bristol Trading Standards, and Ben sez the majority of chimera customers DON'T frequent their forum.

And Seth shouldn't have trouble trolling for newly apoplectic order-holders who haven't held to his level of temporal piety in waiting many months to score a 'genius' bc16....

Barnum was right about suckers, decades before the arrival of gear lust.

Save yourselves!

BTW, Shawn Cleary has got lots of interesting gear on sale at Analogue Haven, if you really need to buy a rapid-acting electronica fix without the lengthy drama.

['DB]
seth
OculoRapido wrote:
And Seth shouldn't have trouble trolling for newly apoplectic order-holders who haven't held to his level of temporal piety in waiting many months to score a 'genius' bc16....


That totally made me laugh, and I feel somewhat famous now!

I have to say the email about the new Chimera Synthesis Modular complete with an eight-module "boat" (wow, that sounds sophisticated!) did make my eyebrows raise themselves up to the heavens.

All I can say at this point is, "we'll see."

Really though, "temporal piety"? :-)
Nuuj
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
dalasv
Yeah, seems really dumb to reinvent the wheel with the whole "boat" concept, when he could just make some euro modules that would actually play well with other gear, but it's just par for the course.

I honestly hope he keeps at it. In 10 years, if he is able to build a company around his ideas, staffed by people who are less eccentric and more customer-focused, we might see some really unique instruments from him.

In my opinion, he's still just getting started.
Nuuj
I think that like Peter and Randal there is little question that not only will BC eventually go out of business, he deserves to go out of business because he doesn't care about his customers at all and is a liar.
coilsandco
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=190

Given that the SM16 appears to be no more, and has been replaced by the modular system I'm guessing the claim that some SM16s had already shipped was a big fat lie

d'oh!
Fidgit
coilsandco wrote:
... I'm guessing the claim that some SM16s had already shipped was a big fat lie


yes, that happens to BC, from time to time... Rage!
OculoRapido
seth wrote:
I wasn't at all concerned with the length of time it took. I wasn't even all that upset that I got about five "it's shipping" notices. I thought it was a bit bizarre and somewhat frustrating, but I never thought I was being ripped off. I know many others feel differently though.

I'm hoping I get my sequencer someday. If it's a year from now, I'll survive. If it's next week, I'll be very happy. Ain't holding my breath for it, though, that's for sure.


Ummm... Holy indiffidence... Wholly indifferent... Temporal relativism... Oh funk, never mind. d'oh!

['DB]
seth
OculoRapido wrote:
Ummm... Holy indiffidence... Wholly indifferent... Temporal relativism... Oh funk, never mind. d'oh!

['DB]


Well here's the thing. We live in a world where you order something from Amazon and you can sometimes get it the next day, or if you live in, say, New York City, you can order from Barnes and Nobles and get your stuff the same day. That's all fine, but not everything happens instantly, especially in the synth world. MOTM stuff in the past took years sometimes. I probably had my MOTM-650 on order for two years or so, and it wasn't a big deal. Was Paul's communication about the delays and issues sufficient? Absolutely. We were informed every step of the way, which was admittedly a very different experience from Chimera.

So that's one point of mine. (Well, maybe two.) We're all used to nearly-instant gratification, and sometimes stuff takes a long time to happen.

The thing is, though, that while people may be justifiably furious, some of the remarks strike me as almost slanderous in a way. People are saying things about BC and his business that simply may not have any basis in fact, based on strange assumptions that we have no proof of.

My main point is that I don't have any idea if any SM-16s have been delivered and neither does anyone else here. Maybe he did have a few made and delivered but found it an unworkable process to make them as they were planned. What bothers me about the "tone" of this thread is that assumptions have been made and people are saying all sorts of horrible things about Chimera. Maybe they're justified, but maybe Chimera's problems with the manufacturing process are actually real. I'm not defending Chimera's somewhat, uh, insufficient communications at all, but sometimes the comments in this forum go way beyond reason.

Executive summary: I ordered a bC16, waited a year, then received it in the mail and am very happy with it. To me that sounds reasonable, if somewhat of a long wait. I've waited way longer for synth items, though, so I don't think it was excessively long. If Chimera didn't send out any of those "I'm sending it" emails before they were ready to send them we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's almost like a lot of people are enjoying trashing Chimera, and when I come on here and say I'm a satisfied customer everyone gets mad at *me* and thinks I'm an idiot. Well, fine. You don't have to be a Chimera customer. Would I recommend that someone order something from them? Probably not, at least until orders ship in days rather than months. The fact that some orders have taken a year or two doesn't necessarily make Chimera a bunch of scammers, and people have definitely received bC16s. Is it stupid of them to say they'll start shipping the new SM-16s in a couple of weeks when it might really take months? Yeah, maybe it is. That's not cause for slander, however.

Ya got facts and evidence? Fine. If you're just taking a guess at things you have no direct knowledge of then you're just wasting everyone's time.
Fidgit
the point is that people who prepaid in full and who are waiting for years simply don't like to be lied to.
that's all and that happened repeatedly in the past and can be proven.
not more and not less.
rob.ocelot
seth wrote:

It's almost like a lot of people are enjoying trashing Chimera, and when I come on here and say I'm a satisfied customer everyone gets mad at *me* and thinks I'm an idiot. Well, fine. You don't have to be a Chimera customer. Would I recommend that someone order something from them? Probably not, at least until orders ship in days rather than months. The fact that some orders have taken a year or two doesn't necessarily make Chimera a bunch of scammers, and people have definitely received bC16s. Is it stupid of them to say they'll start shipping the new SM-16s in a couple of weeks when it might really take months? Yeah, maybe it is. That's not cause for slander, however.

Ya got facts and evidence? Fine. If you're just taking a guess at things you have no direct knowledge of then you're just wasting everyone's time.


IMO the lack of communication from Ben at times invites people to fill in the blanks. There's a lot of spleen venting happening here because there's practically no other venue to raise these questions. Certainly not the Chimera forums, which have been nerfed so that people can't ask the difficult questions. Ben treats that forum like free advertising, not customer support and communication which I think is the bass-ackwards way of doing it.

I think the most frustrating thing about Chimera was the Twitter bullshit. Very rarely was the Twitter feed production or development related. It was mostly "I'm feeling sick today" and "I could go for another double mocha late" type of drivel, sometimes with WEEKS in between tweets.

I get the distinct impression that Ben is the type of person who is gifted but easily distracted. Tinkering in the lab and yet-again-redesigning the BC-16 for the fifth time (because he can, not because he should) appeals to him more than the dealing with the day-to-day realities of running a business. There's been more new (potential) products created than have actually seen the light of day in the past twelve months. There's also a streak of perfectionism he's displayed that is absolutely deadly to product development. This is what updatable firmware is for IMO (hell, Waldorf practically patterns their business model around shipping buggy firmware). 100% bug free and perfect before shipping is a lofty and noble goal but when you are a one man band you either are making or packaging product or you are developing new product.

He supposedly hired a Customer Service Rep in November to deal with complaints and sort out the details for refunds but I've not heard a peep out of him/her. The number of "Where the hell is my refund?" posts on the Chimera forum coupled with their amazing ability to disappear within hours of posting doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence either.

Perhaps Ben needs a little competition in terms of price/features to act as a motivating factor. All it would take is some Chinese company to see the potential of the pent up demand and frustration on the Chimera forums and churn out a million look-a-likes or direct copies of the BC-16. Ironically the utter lack of tangible product from Chimera to reverse engineer has saved them from this fate. So far.

BTW, just so you don't think I'm a bandwagon bellyacher -- I've got a BC-8 and a BC-16 (one of the first ones, ISTR. Right after Depeche Mode got theirs). Great products, but I wish I didn't have to threaten to pull my money out before I magically got a shipping notice.
Atticus
rob.ocelot wrote:
Perhaps Ben needs a little competition in terms of price/features to act as a motivating factor. All it would take is some Chinese company to see the potential of the pent up demand and frustration on the Chimera forums and churn out a million look-a-likes or direct copies of the BC-16. Ironically the utter lack of tangible product from Chimera to reverse engineer has saved them from this fate. So far.


I agree with everything you said Rob. I have my SM16/BCX orders from way back still waiting to be fulfilled, but I really hope Chimera stuff doesn't get cloned (I know you didn't say you wished this either). It's not competition in my eyes, just plain and simple theft, I despise it.
coilsandco
I wonder what's going to happen over on the Chimera forum when jcn7's countdown gets to zero? The suspense is killing me...
Nuuj
I can't believe the house of cards hasn't collapsed yet.
jcn7
Coilsanco wrote"I wonder what's going to happen over on the Chimera forum when jcn7's countdown gets to zero? The suspense is killing me..."

jcn7 here, Tomorrow is blast off! well in reality all I can do is hope that Ben will either send the unit out tomorrow or my refund. At this point I'm just burned out of Ben and his ways. I've tried to be supportive of Ben and his company, but to be honest, he has not shown himself to be too trust worthy at this point, and I could really use my payment back to help me out funding my euro modular I'm putting together. It's not so much that I am angry at Ben, but rather I'm just tired of dealing with him with only broken promises and no use of the funds that I prepaid him over 1 year ago. Jaime
Nuuj
Good luck with getting either from BC.

I badgered him for about six months for a refund before relenting and letting him ship the white BC-16 I originally ordered, which I then promptly sold to a friend at a loss.
jcn7
Well, if I was a betting man, I'd wager tomorrow will come and go just like the last 365 plus days have with nothing to show for my purchase...and I doubt that I will hear anything from Ben either...that is why I've been keeping a "diary"on the forum so to speak so that Ben can't hide in secret, and that all communication is out in the open for all to see. Jaime
rob.ocelot
Hope things get resolved for you one way or another tomorrow, JC.

What's more disturbing lately is that Ben has gone quiet again. Nothing on the website, forum or twitter. Perhaps he's working feverishly to get things done. We can only hope.

I've made myself a promise:I will wait for two more months for some word on my stuff. If Ben either develops a new product or radically redesigns an existing product (including new case materials) in that time then I bail. I've stupidly got too much of my money invested in this shit (BC-16, BC-X, and SM-16 or whatever the hell it's called now) I've already got a BC-16 and BC-8 and while they are cool the usefulness of the BC-16 is severely hampered by the fact that its Volt/Oct ratio is nonstandard and it doesn't play nice with anything else (I was seriously hoping the modular redesign of the SM-16 would make a drop in converter possible). I'm either going to have to design a converter myself or dump the BC-16.

In retrospect I think I'm going to be more cautious in the future about buying musical instruments designed by people who aren't musicians in one form or another. Ben might be a brilliant electrical engineer but I think that great design sense needs to be tempered with the realities of making music and being a working musician in general. He might be patting himself on the back for the clever way he implemented his ringmod using the internal DSP in the BC-16 but it's almost completely useless in the way a musician needs it to function.
coilsandco
Now that jcn7's countdown has got to zero, will the Chimera forum self destruct?
Nuuj
As soon as I asked for a refund he banned me from his forum.
Others had the same fate.
I think it's odd he's let you post for so long...
jcn7
Well, so far I haven't been banned, but who knows what Ben may do...Jaime
jcn7
Well Ben banned me from his forum...here is my email:


"Ben, I see you have decided to "punish" me by banning me from your forum...of course you can do what you wish, however, you have shown by your actions (not mine ) to be completely untrustworthy. You have no one to blame but yourself for customer dissatisfaction and distrust. I merely stated the truth of the matter, I was a "mirror" that "reflected" who you are and tried to tell you...I chose simply to expose your dealings with me so they would not be hidden in secret, but you don't want to see your own reflection as it really is. You would rather go on self deceived and not listen to the truth. I feel sorry for you...remember "Pride comes before a fall"...I can only hope that you will change and begin to correct your ways and make thing right with your customers. As for me, please send my refund no latter than Monday 04/26/2010...You've had my money for over 1 year and I have nothing to show for it. Jaime"
coilsandco
The forum has been, er 'tidied up' too...
jcn7
Since I can't even see the website forum section now, I can only assume that the threads that I started were deleted. Well I certainly hope Ben will eventually figure out how to treat his customers, and I really hope he will send my refund tomorrow. Jaime
opsysbug
rob.ocelot wrote:


Perhaps he's working feverishly to get things done.


Oh right. meh
What that Forum needs is the "eye roll" emoticon.

(post deleted because I decided not to diss anyone on a sunday
and this was pretty nasty. If you are still waiting for your "8 boat
modular synth" or whatever then good luck.)

Everybody on that thing should cut their losses or call the police...
rob.ocelot
opsysbug wrote:
rob.ocelot wrote:


Perhaps he's working feverishly to get things done.


Oh right. meh
What that Forum needs is the "eye roll" emoticon.

(post deleted because I decided not to diss anyone on a sunday
and this was pretty nasty. If you are still waiting for your "8 boat
modular synth" or whatever then good luck.)

Everybody on that thing should cut their losses or call the police...


Not sure why you were singling me out to tear a strip off. Sounds like you didn't even read my post. I'm neither for nor against Ben in this. And yes, the 'working feverishly' comment was sarcasm.

I'm not pleased about him banning people who ask for refunds as that only encourages people to go back under different names and grief the forum. I seriously hope you aren't one of those people. If you got your refund or your synth then why are you here berating people still involved in this?
jcn7
Well, I will not try and use a different name and try and post on Ben's forum. I'm done with Ben, I wrote him this message today:

"Hi Ben, I'm checking to make sure that you will be refunding me today via paypal by 12:00 noon my time (you've got 3 hours left)...if not, I will contact paypal (since originally I used paypal to pay for the bcx) and file a complaint against you and your company. Even though you are trying to keep this matter concealed from the public, I WILL do everything in my power to expose your business ethics. I've been asking for a refund for over 4 months, and you keep stringing me along. Well, it stops here today...so it's up to you. Either send my refund by 12:00 noon my time today, or I will file my complaint and start my campaign to simply try and get my refund...Ben it should never have come to this. Jaime"


Since I can not post this on his website to keep interested people informed, I will keep the modular community informed here until I get my refund from Ben...after that, I will be done with Ben and posting these updates. Thanks. Jaime
opsysbug
Mr. Rob.ocelot I think you misunderstood me !
Not against you or anyone here ! That was not against you but against you know who ! I'm very sad that he's still out there...taking folks $$ !
Yes I got a few things from him but only after much pain and distress.
I think I was one of the early ones on his forum to really speak out loudly
and clearly. I was not banned ( he wasn't there yet-not so damn desperate) but I think he sent me gear to shut me up and make me an example he could use. I still believe that VERY few BC 16's are really out there (how many youtube vids ? Or maybe it's just a big secret !) I guess a few BC8 hit the beaches but I believe NOTHING else ever existed. Hi Ben...still waiting
for a picture of one of your awesome secret gear 8 boat things lol
Dude Mr. Ocelot it was not you !! Every once in a while I just get mad !!
Mad for poor Mr JCN and MR Tonewreaker and MR Dalasv and all those guys
still hoping. Rage!
I'm afraid of the end result...
(Read below...like really...man !)



" Author Message
ChimeraSynths
Site Admin
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 427
Location: UK


Reply with quote
New post Shipping, bCX, bC8, back-orders, etc..

I'm now back full-time in the factory after a few issues that took longer to resolve than anticipated.

Shipping
We are aware that a couple of orders have had Royal Mail issues. These have been resolved and either the item or it's replacement will be with you now.

bCX
The first batch of these (17 units in total) is 99.8% ready to go, the firmware update procedure is in-place now and we have a bit of documentation to complete. These are leaving very shortly, and we have some spare units also.

bC8
We have a few back-orders here and these are getting attention this week.

Back-orders
bC16's are flowing again, we are quite low on battery lids - but these shouldn't stop things (we have to get more to the painters, or go stainless steel). Unibodies: some silver units should be good to go next week, and hopefully the black units before mid-May (the signs are good).

CSM/SM16
This is quite exciting and I'm desperate to get some more time to get this up and out to customers, even if it is a few very early orders in the next couple of weeks, again it has to be 100% right.

There is a bunch of other stuff in the wings, but until we can get hold of some more bodies here (and we are trying) they are just going to wait.

NB: If you have emailed over the last week or two and I haven't responded yet - I'm sorry, you'll get an answer in the next few days."
d'oh! meh
dalasv
Thanks for being mad for me, because this shit is just ridiculous.

I can't even believe I'm going on two years without the synth I paid for.
dan_p
Man, this is probably a bit out of order. BUT. if this fucker had my money for that long without anything to show for it I would be going round to his place under cover of darkness to kick the living shit out of him! Obviously not practicle outside of UK, unless your realy pissed!

sorry, bad thing to say but I am amazed this hasn't happened if the story is as bad as it sounds.

Does this happen much in the small manufacturer market? So far I have been very happy with both the freindlyness and service from everyone I have bought from, both S/H and new. reading this kind of stuff is a worry, I am fairly new to the boutique and small instrument sector.
coilsandco
dalasv wrote:
Thanks for being mad for me, because this shit is just ridiculous.

I can't even believe I'm going on two years without the synth I paid for.


Its odd how the endless wait/lapsed delivery dates/false promises almost become accepted as part of the whole process of ordering from Chimera.

I have gone past angry to a state of glum acceptance.

Kenny McCormick
mirri
Took a whole 3.5 weeks to receive it when i ordered my BC8. I didn't know about all the problems other people had when i placed my order though... That was last May i think. But after reading about what others have gone through i'd never made the purchase.

/m
dalasv
Jaime, any news on your refund?
jcn7
Hi Dalasv, I just PM'ed you.
coilsandco
BC seems to have gone quiet. Anyone heard anything?
opsysbug
coilsandco wrote:
BC seems to have gone quiet. Anyone heard anything?



Ha ! How many times has THAT statement been posted here and there ?!
Nuuj
http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2010/05/chimera-synthesis-bc9.html
karplus
unbelievable - yet another new synth while he hasn't yet delivered several models from 1 or 2 years ago. Its probably a great synth too - but what a fucking asshole he is! Don't buy it guys
dalasv
My bc16 is verifiably in the mail, but I would still advise against doing business with this guy. The amount of time you waste dealing with the headache adds up to way too much of an investment in what's just a noisemaker.
karplus
I am glad your getting your machine finally! What I will say is that they are not disappointing when you finally get them.
dalasv
I believe that, but I'm quite sure you can make the same sounds with other equipment, and time is money, which means all the time you waste on this guy actually makes it very expensive.

If this thing blows me away so much that I realize IT WAS TOTALLY WORTH IT, I will make sure to let you guys know. That seems incredibly unlikely, though.
opsysbug
When I finally got mine I thought it was pretty cool but the bullcrap
around it had kind of soured it a bit. It is a pretty beautiful thing though.
But I find with all this super cool Euro it's another number that mostly
sits on the shelf. Somehow the BC 8 is simpler to grab and go if I'm
going to choose one. I'm sure you'll dig it-a shame these aren't just
available. Maybe someday...
opsysbug
I love how some cool cat shows up on Matrixsynth and conveniently
sez "I boughts my BC9 and it's ALREADY in the mail !"
Right. Jerkoff.
julien
opsysbug wrote:
I love how some cool cat shows up on Matrixsynth and conveniently
sez "I boughts my BC9 and it's ALREADY in the mail !"
Right. Jerkoff.


Hi,

I'm (maybe) a cool cat and yes i've posted on Matrixsynth that i've bought a BC9 who's on the way and was shipped one day after my order!
I don't work for Chimera Synthesis, i'm just a French guy who love noise and Chimera products sound great for me( i also own a BC16 with six months wait) I know BC 's business is very disastrous seriously, i just don't get it and i hope those who wait will have their products or refunds quickly!
opsysbug
So take a look at this forum and the forum over there and don't try to get anyone else sucked in by giving him good (misleading) press.
because 50 more people will order that thing and never get it !
Cool cat... lol
RoyNeary
Just discovered this forum and registered today. I am another relatively long-term waiter.

I ordered both a bC8 and a bC16 in early 2009. It's a long time ago now but I feel sure I had read a little (if not on the Chimera forum itself) about delays in shipping before I ordered, but I fully believed the invoicing which stated the usual days/two weeks kind of thing we're all familiar with.

I got my bC8 in July 2009 and it improved my mood a lot. Probably foolishly, I committed more cash and put in for an SM-16 when the latest details about it came out in October. This time it was a Google Checkout transaction and I felt convinced it would not be another long wait.

Well, I'm still waiting for my bC16 and we know what happened with the SM-16. I have asked once for a refund after multiple assurances that my bC16 would go out in the next 24 hours or so, but retracted when Ben told me why he had not been in the office for a while and I decided to respect that.

I was really pleased to see DalasV got a tracking number. It makes me think I may not be too far behind now.

The temptation is there even for a bC9 order, but I will not do it, because my own experience with the SM-16 order tells me that I cannot trust any claim that I will be invoiced only when the item is close to ship date.

Any newcomers to this process -- I would recommend opting for Google Checkout over PayPal if possible, because your ability to complain via PayPal seems to run out after three months of the payment. With Chimera, this just isn't long enough to track the transaction, sadly.

I will say this for Ben -- he is polite and most of the time he responds to my e-mail. It could be worse.
Mr White
I waited a year for my bc16. chimera is this way, but Ben is'nt a thief.
if you want one of these toys be prepared to wait long, it can happen.
julien
Hey Opsysbug,

I understand you're reaction,maybe you're a frustrated guy,but i think those who want to buy stuff from Chimera have checked forums and 99%
of the post in these forums say that BC is a thief so everyone who want a BC or SM bidule take a risk it's true.
My experience is: i've took this risk and i've received my order (with 6 months of wait for the BC16).
For now, do what you want with you're money, buy a monotron it's cheap and there tons of this in your city music store. No risk
opsysbug
d'oh! (frustrated guy)
Thanks cool cat. enjoy your BC9. Let us know when it arrives.
dalasv
Weird that you got your bc16 in 6 months when other people waited for two years though. It doesn't really do anything to make him look like a good businessman.
RoyNeary
Mr White wrote:
I waited a year for my bc16. chimera is this way, but Ben is'nt a thief.
if you want one of these toys be prepared to wait long, it can happen.


Well, yes. I've already waited longer than you did!
opsysbug
Really I think it isn't about "how long" but misleading information,
dishonesty and outright lies. If you advertise a product with a "two week"
waiting time then don't ship for two years while you mislead the buyer
does that make you a thief ? If you introduce and lead people on about
a product that does not exist and then continue to lead them on about the
fact that the project "is 99.8% ready" does that make you a thief ?
I know I go on and on and am very outspoken about this but while
both the Plan B and Ghetto Rack cases are both closed-this guy continues
to spin his web. I cannot believe that anyone would continue to defend
this company on this forum. C'mon ! Look at that email I printed from him !
So easy to see through !! Doubletalk !! Ok so not a thief. But has anything
in the email I printed come true ? When someone gets that "8 Boat S&M
16 module synth/sequencer whatever" I'll come back and delete this...
d'oh! (really frustrated guy)
dalasv
The evidence is clear: Doing business with this guy will lead to quite an unpleasant experience unless you are willing to just drop some cash and put it out of your mind until a box shows up on your doorstep some day.

The sick part is that I think he really doesn't understand what he's done wrong. All of his lies are entirely justified in his mind. Twisted dude. I feel like I've been held hostage by a sociopath. I can only say these things now because my synth is actually in the mail. I was always afraid to share my true opinion because he seems like someone who would retaliate. He still has like $250 of my money for the bCX! As long as I have one of the products I paid for, I'm done biting my tongue.
coilsandco
The posts defending BC on Matrixsynth seem quite odd. As opsysbug says, its not the wait for the synths that's the problem but the outright dishonesty as regards delivery times.

It would appear that as soon as BC has an idea for a product he starts taking orders. That this idea may take over 2 years to result in a product he is 100% happy with seems not to matter to him. He will carry on taking orders regardless, and carry on lying about delivery dates. How anybody can defend this sort of behaviour beggars belief.
opsysbug
"The last few bC8's were delayed and will be sent out shortly. At present there is a waiting list (not paid for!) for the bC8 and it is currently out of production due to a component shortage.

kind regards,---------------- seriously, i just don't get it

BC
Chimera Synthesis Ltd"
julien
Salut,
I've received my BC9 today, it's a crazy little device with lots of modulations and flashing lights. It sound really good (poor man Buchla sound hmmm..... )and i'm now waiting for a cable to make them(BC16 and BC9) play together!
Hope to post some vidéo soon.
I don't want to speak about Chimera's business anymore,but feel free to speak with me about his gear and tips !

Julien
karplus
Well, against my advice pal ordered a BC9 2 days ago and he too has a believable tracking number. It looks like the penny has finally dropped with BC and he is now only taking money for things that he actually has in stock.

If its really true this would be an IMMENSE improvement in his business practise.

it still doesn't make the BC16, BCX and SM16 lies and fiascos over the last 2 years anymore palllatable though
dalasv
Also still lame that he is shipping a new product before fulfilling orders for those older products. I could get a bc9 now, but need to keep waiting for the bcx I ordered probably a year ago?
coilsandco
Maybe he should give refunds to everybody who has outstanding backorders, and only re invoice when he has products in stock.

What are the chances of that happening, eh?
dalasv
The bC16 arrived today. I'm pretty impressed by the weight of this thing. It feels nice to hold. The knobs, however, are kind of weird. They all feel different, some really loose, some really tight.

It does what it promised it would do. Using midi to control it is fun, especially with the arpeggiator, which can make some real video-game like sounds.

As I predicted, it's a fun little guy, but I don't think you'd miss it if you didn't have it. It'd be very easy to recreate these sounds on any synth with an arp and decent mod routings, and a more mass-produced synth wouldn't feel as touchy. Sometimes if you just barely nudge a knob, there's a jarring reaction.

If you want one, I'd say wait for one to pop up in the sale thread.

I'm hoping the bCX is more impressive.
coilsandco
From Chimera forum...

"how other forums are run and what is said is not our business. We don't have the time to read other forums."

Clap
Nuuj
It boggles my mind that people who have read this forum continue to support his business by buying new product while so many orders are outstanding.
ix
.......bingo -all the 4's 44 ?
rastko
Nuuj wrote:
It boggles my mind that people who have read this forum continue to support his business by buying new product while so many orders are outstanding.


nice avatar nuuj.

what i really really find strange is that I bought 2 products of chimera and they all arrived in the promised timeframe .

when I bought them I did not have a clue there were any problems.

it is a pity BC does such a bad job when a products are actually really good .

now I even have a bc9 in post coming next week ... I don't know I like small things which make noise I should have bought an cricket maybe.

i have absolutely nothing to do with chimera or am I a relative of BC . How many of you have relatives from Serbia ? you see ...

yours truly

rastko ...... posting for gaining respect (46 more ) and an ability to sell again musical gear which will make people happy . I have this tenori on for like half price ...... really
dalasv
Honestly, he seems to be getting much better. It looks like he's only taking money for products he can actually ship now.

It's a shame that he still has a lot of backorders from people who paid in advance, because I think that will haunt him until he gets all of those out the door (as it should, really).
dalasv
I was just playing around with this thing some more, and it can go pretty deep. I'll try to make a video tomorrow. The craziest patches I've done so far use the resonating filter as oscillator, with the real oscillator doing weird stuff to other parts.
ndkent
Bought a BC9 last week. Received it today. No problems.
hbc
^^^ likewise.

I know there's some people who aren't happy the Chimera guy, but I haven't had any issues.
karplus
well, my pals' BC9 turned up and on time too. Regardless of my opinion about BCs general business behaviour I cannot deny that it is a remarkable synthesizer. If he really shifts his whole retail policy to only taking money for in stock items and meets the back orders he will start to look like a grown up synth manufacturer....
hbc
Did a video of the BC9 in action:
essex sound lab
hbc wrote:
Did a video of the BC9 in action:


Fun!

I find myself wondering what would happen if you left this running someplace where the uninitiated might run across it...

Would they think it was a doomsday device?

Would they think aliens had landed?

Would they call the bomb squad?
mirri
essex sound lab wrote:
Fun!

I find myself wondering what would happen if you left this running someplace where the uninitiated might run across it...

Would they think it was a doomsday device?

Would they think aliens had landed?

Would they call the bomb squad?


All of the above hihi
coilsandco
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=242
dalasv
The good news is that I fully believe he will process that refund. People should know going into this that Ben is on a different timeline, for real! I hope that he's able to grow the company to a point that he can hire people who are on our more normal schedule, so that they can deal with us and he can just make rad synths!
coilsandco
dalasv wrote:
The good news is that I fully believe he will process that refund. People should know going into this that Ben is on a different timeline, for real! I hope that he's able to grow the company to a point that he can hire people who are on our more normal schedule, so that they can deal with us and he can just make rad synths!


I don't imagine that he won't process the refund (after all not to do so would be theft) but it still remains a shitty way to do business. If someone asks for a refund, just give them a fucking refund. Attempting to dissuade them from asking for one and making yet more false promises about delivery dates doesn't help anybody.
dalasv
Agree 100%! I'm just saying I would not expect him to "fix" himself any time soon.

I hope your wait is not too much longer!
coilsandco
This thread seems more promising...

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=243
rob.ocelot
Yay, shipping notice and tracking number received for second BC-16 (ordered July 2008). nanners

Was sent Tues but tracking number still doesn't come up on Royal Mail's website. (typical for most postal systems, really. I suspect it'll be on my doorstep and Royal Mail/Canada Post will be announcing via email that it has entered the country)

It SEEMS like he's getting those backorders out. Let's hope he can keep the momentum going. Still not buying into the BC-9 Kool-Aid until we see the mythical BC-X and the on again-off again-just-what-is-he-calling-it-this-week SM-16.
opsysbug
A long thread with lots of promises on the BC site forum.
I made him a challenge and told him I'd buy if he was honorable. No reply so far.
More hot air ? We shall see. The BC-9 seems to be the new BC-8.
Those have always shipped quickly.Lets see how the other stuff goes.
And that guy's damn refund ! Gotta say that 9 looks nice. Shit very frustrating .
Muff Wiggler
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2902


hi! poke
dalasv
Well, not sure what he can glean from being here that he hasn't already heard a million times on his own forum. Hopefully he continues nudging in the right direction.
Chimera Synthesis
So I thought I would say Hello! Looks like ALOT of Chimera stuff on this forum; always a bit scary to see what else people are saying.

Happy 4th July to everyone in the USA.
opsysbug
Yes and hello to you as well.
The new BC9 looks really nice and I'm glad to hear that most of them are shipping on time. Now how goes it with those back orders that were all
ready paid for ? Joining this forum could really be a new start for you.
A lot of potential customers if you would just come clean. Can you ? hihi
Guinness ftw!
Chimera Synthesis
Hi Opsysbug,

The bC9's have all shipped from stock so far - and there are no customer back-orders of either the bC8 or bC9.

The bC16 is a little more complex as there are still back-orders pending, here's a breakdown (63):

June 2008 - 11 (these are in final assembly and test)
July 2008 - 4
August 2008 - 5
Sept 2008 - 8
Nov 2008 - 12
Dec 2008 - 1
Feb 2009 - 3
March 2009 - 6
Sept 2009 - 1
Feb 2010 - 2
March 2010 - 5
May 2010 - 2
June 2010 - 3

This is pretty much the whole picture as far as bC16 back-orders. There are 17 bCX, 28 SM16 and 6 pH303 back-orders also. The bCX and SM16 both have the next highest priority. And a small number of SM9's should leave this week depending on the amount of time I get to finish a firmware tweak.

We recently (this May) changed the casing design of the bC16 to put the seven main casing screws through the back of the unit and have a built a decent stock of casings ready for tested electronics (the main bottleneck).

Doesn't get much more level than that.
dalasv
Yep, nudging in the right direction.
opsysbug
Chimera Synthesis wrote:

June 2008 - 11 (these are in final assembly and test)
July 2008 - 4
August 2008 - 5
Sept 2008 - 8
Nov 2008 - 12
Dec 2008 - 1
Feb 2009 - 3
March 2009 - 6
Sept 2009 - 1
Feb 2010 - 2
March 2010 - 5
May 2010 - 2
June 2010 - 3

This is pretty much the whole picture as far as bC16 back-orders. There are 17 bCX, 28 SM16 and 6 pH303 back-orders also. The bCX and SM16 both have the next highest priority. And a small number of SM9's should leave this week depending on the amount of time I get to finish a firmware tweak.



huh?
felixer
just got my bc8. less then one month between payment and delivery. that's quit accepteble in my book. brilliant little machine. happily bleeping away right now. and it will come with me while i water my little green friends in the garden Trampoline one happy customer over here ....
Fidgit
hmmm, nice for all those getting their gear. thumbs up

some of us paid over two years ago (e.g. for a SM16) and are still waiting and hearing the usual
"soon",
"next week",
"sorry, major update",
"before long",
"next on the stack",
"top priority",
"complete redesign",
"ships with the next batch"
etc.

i refrain from further commenting, it's all been said already.
Tombstone
Chimera Synthesis
Fidgit - if you'd like to email me, I can arrange a refund. We have no intention of supplying SM16's and bCX's to anyone that is less than happy.
ndkent
Accepting orders only for items in stock might be a good policy?
opsysbug
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Hi Opsysbug,



June 2008 - 11 (these are in final assembly and test)


How long does this take ? 3 years ? hmmm.....
Now sir thats a hell of a lot of testing... lol
felixer
well, on his website there is mention with every item whether it's in stock or not. i was tempted to get a bigger/more complex model but settled on the bc8 since that one was in stock .... sorry for all of you who are still waiting, but unfortunaltly that seems a common problem with these one man/woman boutique operations (syndusties/planB/buchla/serge). maybe we are spoilt with the abundance of chinese stuff that is available, affordable and works. whatever some people may say/think of that, i'm happy that they do what they do: the chinese for the bread&butter stuff and the boutique people for the specials.
dalasv
ndkent wrote:
Accepting orders only for items in stock might be a good policy?


He's moved more towards this method. Most of the outstanding orders are from years ago. Hopefully he gets them sorted out in the near future, because I think they are really casting a long shadow over the improvements he's made.
felixer
in a (desperate?) attempt to reduce the clutter around my (eurorack) modular i made this little docking station to park the bc8. turns out it fits neatly into a piece of DN75 sewer tubing ;-) 2 sets of mupltiples: 1 straight, 1 with attentuator to feed gtr/stompboxes.
Fidgit
thumbs up

applause
felixer
thanks Fidgit!
more beautifull option would be a cnc'ed block of this white acrylic where it would fit flush to the frontpanel. maybe Ben will offer something like that one day? or the bc9 as eurorack module? i'm working in quad so in time i'll prob get some more chimera stuff anyway 8_)
Chimera Synthesis
Would anyone else like to see a Eurorack version of a bC8/9?

Something along the lines of:
0-10v CV in (either one per knob or a single in like the bC9)
Trig in (like the bC9)
VCO direct out (no headphone amp)
LFO/EG direct out (probably switchable between LFO out and EG out)
unfussy 12-15v DC input
Minimoog56
sure if you can sell them thru a reputable dealer and build reasonable quantities...
Fidgit
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Would anyone else like to see a Eurorack version of a bC8/9?

Something along the lines of:
0-10v CV in (either one per knob or a single in like the bC9)
Trig in (like the bC9)
VCO direct out (no headphone amp)
LFO/EG direct out (probably switchable between LFO out and EG out)
unfussy 12-15v DC input


NO! people would like to see what they paid for years ago!
Chimera Synthesis
Constructive as ever.

I still haven't your email so we can arrange a refund of whatever is outstanding (SM16?)
timmah
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Would anyone else like to see a Eurorack version of a bC8/9?


love to see one but I'd never buy anything off you that wasn't through a dealer/you have cleared up the years old undelivered product issues.
Chimera Synthesis
I don't know if that's good or bad.

Perhaps we will ONLY sell a module direct and sell everything else via distributors then. hmmm.....
hbc
BC9 Eurorack would be AWESOME. CV input for each knob would be awesome 8 times as much.
hbc
It will go here:

Nuuj
You should fulfill the orders you already have money for and the projects you've already partially conceived/announced before being distracted by something new. Stop looking for new projects to dig you out of your financial hole. Spend your time on the more mundane task of manufacturing the products that people have already paid for.
Chimera Synthesis
Nuuj: WTF!!!!

WHOEVER said we were planning to release a rackmount bC8/9 unit? did we say we were going too? did we show a prototype? did we set a price? did we give a delivery date? did we take any money for one???

I asked the question only, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be criticised for asking a question. very frustrating
opsysbug
Soapbox But everyone here is right ! Why even ASK ? Because you are going to make one ? Like you did the BC-9 ? I can't believe you're even lurking about on here while you should be filling those 2008 (!) 2009 2010 orders !! 2008 ?!! Come on man !! Shame on you !! And delivering new product without any public apology on this forum or anywhere else !? SHAME ! BCX ? SM16 ? That stuff is imaginary !! I begged you to post a PICTURE LAST YEAR ! I say it out loud ! UNIBODY ? Imaginary !! SHOW me a PICTURE of any of that dreamware...
You can come on here and act like "a cool guy" or "one of us" all you
like but maybe you should go back and read all the pages here on this subject. It does not paint a happy picture. YES I own a couple of your products. NO you do not owe me a refund. That doesn't mean I did
not have to WAIT, THREATEN and BEG to get them. Yes I remember. You clowns can keep buying stuff from this guy (and acting like nothing is wrong) while your forum friends wait for their two year old orders. Modular BC-9 ? Yea...when do you start taking orders ? lol
opsysbug
Oh yea...and don't say WE !! Who is we ? We who ?
You and all your workers ? Tell 'em to get some WORK done then. hihi
hbc
Quote:
You clowns can keep buying stuff from this guy (and acting like nothing is wrong) while your forum friends wait for their two year old orders.


WHERE IS THE ORDER FORM FOR MY BC9 EURORACK?!?

I've ordered two things in the past from chimera, and they showed up on time as promised. Based on nothing but my personal experience, I'd order again.

Other people's orders are none of my business.
opsysbug
hbc wrote:
It will go here:



As I said... lol
Maybe you can just dream that the hole is filled.
Nuuj
Best post on the official Chimera forum lately,

BC "I'm still hoping to get time to finish it (pH303) this year, or at least build the 6 units some very patient customers ordered..."

Talk about WTF. He hopes to get around to producing a product that he already took money for a long time ago.

Chimera forum
Chimera Synthesis
Opsysbug. Let me answer this one piece at a time.

Back-orders:
Every bC16 back-order customer has been written to with an apology and their position in the production queue. So far pretty much everyone that has replied has been courteous, polite and supportive. And again I thank them for that.

Unibody:
These exist (and always have!) and various people have seen them. We are happy with the anodising now, and it is a matter of time before we make a significant production batch. As the white acrylic bC16's make up the vast majority of back-orders, these unibodies are not currently high priority.

bCX:
Exists and has done in a number of versions. We tend not to show all the stages of development of products, whilst interesting to others we sometimes have ideas that don't make it into the current versions but we want to keep for later on.

SM16:
See bCX comments.

Cool guy / One of us:
Did you ever invent anything?

Clowns:
Just plain insulting to anyone that has ever bought a Chimera or any other boutique synth product.

As far as the 'WE' comment, Chimera Synthesis Ltd is pretty much me - it's a form of English I'm comfortable with.

And to be sure opsysbug - you have bought from us in the past four products:
bC8 - ordered 18 July 2008, sent 11 September 2008
bC8 - ordered 18 September 2008, sent 15 December 2008
bC8 - ordered 6 January 2008, sent 18 March 2009
bC16 - ordered 11 June 2008, sent 23 May 2009

Pictures of 'dreamware' - when we are ready to post pix we will post pix. Here's a little pix of Chimera "dreamware" that may never make full production (it's called the dekadrone complex triple oscillator drone unit - there's a couple of testers out there if you see one).
Chimera Synthesis
Nuuj wrote:
Best post on the official Chimera forum lately,

BC "I'm still hoping to get time to finish it (pH303) this year, or at least build the 6 units some very patient customers ordered..."

Talk about WTF. He hopes to get around to producing a product that he already took money for a long time ago.

Chimera forum


Damned if I do, damned if I don't..
dalasv
That little dekadrone looks like a cake smile

Well sir, I think you just have to grit your teeth and take these criticisms on the chin. You're still clearing out your karma, and you might have a little more work to do before that's over. Keep plugging away at it.

Hoping to see my bCX soon, but right now I've got more than enough toys to play with, so I'm less wound-up than before I received my bC16.
opsysbug
Yes.
We hope your Karma continues to be cleared...through your actions.
Post those pics whenever you are ready. And let us know when back orders are filled. Or will that be a secret. And yea the BC8's came to me (almost) on time with only a few "false shipment" emails sent.BC8's have always shipped pretty much on time and(as usual) lets not pretend we all don't know that. But I got at least 6 false shipping dates for the BC16 because THAT's the way you do business.
Yes I own your products (I said that because I know you would go there-
you always try that when you are trying to squirm out of something) and for a long time I was on your forum begging like all your other "polite" customers to try to get you to see the light. Obviously you are still making excuses (at least in public) so obviously you haven't seen it. Now I'm done. Soapbox
The great stuff that you "invented" has never been the problem. I don't mean to call anyone here a clown but lets just be HONEST about the situation ok ? d'oh!
Umcorps
Chimera Synthesis wrote:

Every bC16 back-order customer has been written to with an apology and their position in the production queue.


I'm guessing that must have happend sometime after I asked, politely, for a refund on my BC16 order and, after you ignored my mails and I went to law you finally sent me my refund timed to arrive by recorded delivery on the very latest day possible before I could apply for a judgement against you?

Before you get on your high horse about being challenged on your right to ask questions here, you first have a lot of questions to answer about yourself and your integrity. The answer to those questions will lie in your ability to deliver. Consistently and reliably.

Personally, I would never, ever trust you with an advance payment again. You make what looks like very interesting gear and, if it was sold via a dealer, I would not hesitate to grab some when I could.

But as long as you continue to sell direct. I can live without it thanks.
Chimera Synthesis
Umcorps? Not sure I remember it quite like that..

Sadly though we have no intention of appointing dealers in the UK at the moment, elsewhere for sure.

So I guess that if you re-ordered you would have to deal with Chimera direct.
Umcorps
Well, tell you what Ben. In the interest of full disclosure, here is a full copy of all our email communications about the subject (personal info removed for obvious reasons)

Quote:
13/07/2009 Me to you

Dear Ben,

I have lost all confidence in your ability to fulfill orders for your goods.

I am, therefore, cancelling all my orders with you and ask for a full
and immediate refund of the payments I have made for these.

The orders in question, in reverse chronological order, are:-

Quantity: 1
Item: bCX #010

Delivery to:
xxxxx

Expected Dispatch Date: April 08, 2009

Payment Transaction ID: xxxxxx

Quantity: 1
Item: bC16 + PL1500

Delivery to:
xxxxx

Expected Dispatch Date: March 10, 2009

Payment Transaction ID: xxxxx


Quantity: 1
Item: bC16

Delivery to:
xxxxx
Expected Dispatch Date: July 14, 2008

Payment Transaction ID: xxxxx


Please acknowledge receipt of this communication.


Thank you

======================================


14/07/2009 Me to you


Ben,

Further to my email yesterday requesting a full and immediate refund I felt it important to clarify the exact amount owning to me.

My Paypal statement shows the following:-


Item: bCX #010 Charge £ 149

Item: PL1500 Charge £12.50


Item: bC16 Charge £136


The total owed is, therefore, £297.50


I will accept payment in full, by cheque, made out to xxxxx, at the delivery address given previously.



Please acknowledge receipt of this communication.


Thank you,


======================================

14/07/2009 You to me

Hi Mark,

Got your email, it should get processed this week.

best,

BC

====================================

21/07/2009 Me to you

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Chimera
Synthesis<bc@chimera-synthesis.com> wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Got your email, it should get processed this week.


Seven days later and no repayment received. Another undertaking to
deliver unfulfilled.

I am not prepared to put up with this any longer.

You leave me with no option but to seek recovery through the courts.

You have the rest of the week to get a full refund to me.

I will wait until the delivery of the first post here next Monday
morning, the 27th July.

If you have not paid me back in full by that time I will file my
application for £297.50 (plus costs) with HMCS immediately after that
delivery.

I will not write again to remind you about this.

============================


I didn't hear from you again until you sent the cheque by recorded post on the day judgement could be applied for.

Does that help?
Chimera Synthesis
Hmm. As I said it's not quite how I remember it.. confused
Reality Checkpoint
not this shit again
Umcorps
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Hmm. As I said it's not quite how I remember it..


lolspew
felixer
i don't get it. people are ordering something. it takes time. then they order again something else. it takes time. and then they order again?
how do you ever expect someone to catch up like that?

did you ever order something from serge, buchla or cyndusties?
you know how long the waiting times for a ferrari or rolls royce are?
prob not because nobody here has the money for that hihi

this stuff is boutique. not some chinese factory. and bloody cheap at that too. right now i would advise ben to triple his prices. that might weed out all those people just looking for a bargain. go to woolworth for that. anybody used to dealing with boutique stuff knows it just takes time. all these operations are small. that's the only way to exist nowadays if you want to offer high quality coupled with innovation. if you don't understand this then try and start a bussiness for yourself. you'll soon find out ....

kudos to ben to step up and even answer these forum-mails. sts(=serge), don buchla and cynthia don't. very cheap and easy to keep hacking at someone who is doing genuinly great work. i love my bc8. deliverytime was under a month. i will order again .... now everybody please just relax Sun ....
opsysbug
lolspew Thanks for finding this emoticon. Perfect.
RoyNeary
felixer wrote:
i don't get it. people are ordering something. it takes time. then they order again something else. it takes time. and then they order again?
how do you ever expect someone to catch up like that?


So according to you, customers are at fault for overwhelming the company with orders.

And later in the same post:

felixer wrote:
i love my bc8. deliverytime was under a month. i will order again


So you're part of the problem! eek!

Seriously, though -- I'm sure Chimera WANTS repeat custom. It's a business.


felixer wrote:

this stuff is boutique. not some chinese factory. and bloody cheap at that too. right now i would advise ben to triple his prices. that might weed out all those people just looking for a bargain. go to woolworth for that. anybody used to dealing with boutique stuff knows it just takes time. all these operations are small. that's the only way to exist nowadays if you want to offer high quality coupled with innovation. if you don't understand this then try and start a bussiness for yourself. you'll soon find out ....


I think you are talking down somewhat to a lot of people on these forums if you think they need to be told this. The objections are to being misled about dispatch dates after payments in full have been taken. There's no good reason for that.
felixer
RoyNeary wrote:

So you're part of the problem! eek!

not at all. i wanted a chimera synth. took a look at his website. saw what was in stock. and ordered that. and got it asap. no problemo.
would have ordered a bigger machine with bells&whistles if that would have been available. but it wasn't. so was i happy with what i could get 8_)
and i will order another bigger/fancier machine if and when it is available ....

maybe some people got treated badly. i don't know. it's hard to tell .... my guess is that's it's overoptimism. prob from both sides.

i've seen it before: some manufacturer has an idea. throws it in the air to see if people might be interested. and maybe adjust his product to suit those needs. and all of a sudden everybody jumps on it like it's already in the shops. while there might not even be a working prototype!
and yes: companies have been known to go belly-up because of their succes. like bands and individuals: too much too soon can be dangerous!

it's like writing a song with a band. you just try different things, throw half of them away, start all over again and in the end maybe drop the idea completely. if you want instant results: play covers. then someone else has done the hard work.
so: if you want something now: go to a shop and get the latest roland, korg, yamaha, whatever. and be prepared to sound like everybody else.
if you want something special: it takes a bit more.

patience IS a virtue.

paying someone to do something does not make him your slave. but this is a general (western?) attitude which is at the root of a lot of problems. see it every day: the dictatorship of the suit&tie guys evil

but maybe you already know all this and you're just pissed off because i have one and you don't nanners
Nuuj
The problem has never really been with the wait times.

The problem has been with:
The totally misleading initial ship estimates, for products which he has taken money in advance for, which he clearly lacked a means to deliver.
The nearly never ending series of false ship estimates.
The generally piss poor communication.
The extreme difficulty in getting a refund.
The lack of real apologies that show actual empathy and admit wrong doing.

The people that are upset with Chimera are generally upset with BC because they feel like they have been lied to and treated poorly. I'm still angry because it really doesn't matter to me that I eventually got my order, I'm still angry due to the misleading expectations that lead to my order and the treatment that I endured while waiting for it. Had I gotten a refund within a week or two of requesting it, I might have been able to forget my anger and even order from Chimera in the future, but there is no chance of that now.

I have ordered custom stuff in the past that I waited years for, and I was OK with that because it's what I was expecting.

It is good to see BC moving towards more transparency, but he's got a long, long way to go and I doubt I will ever be able to recommend that anyone order anything from him.
felixer
well, my experience is the complete opposite. that's all i can say. one happy customer over here grin
and yes, i'd like a bc9 eurorack please (hides)
karplus
i.e. I'm alright jack, so fuck you.

felixer, you just sound selfish. There is no "maybe" that Ben treated many people badly - he did. I waited a year for a BC16 and Ben repeatedly lied about the delivery. Some people waited twice that length and heard twice as many lies.

Its not the waiting its the lying

and BTW woolworths closed down.
felixer
excuse me for living seriously, i just don't get it
and yes, i'm happy. do you mind? and i'm not going to let your bad mood spoil my day. maybe you should let my good mood cheer up your day.
Fnord
I suspect that the public stoning of certain bad business practitioners would do much to restore the integrity of this community.
opsysbug
felixer wrote:
well, my experience is the complete opposite. that's all i can say. one happy customer over here grin
and yes, i'd like a bc9 eurorack please (hides)


huh? It's like the exact opposite of being a Buddhist.
( I made MY money off of that oil spill too bad about those BIRDS !) hyper
indexofmetals
one more reason why the ignore button is so vital.

and I did get my bc order in a timely fashion but from experiences of friends I would never order again. too many good manufacturers to support
Fnord
indexofmetals wrote:
and I did get my bc order in a timely fashion but from experiences of friends I would never order again. too many good manufacturers to support


I agree!
THIS
felixer
opsysbug wrote:

huh? It's like the exact opposite of being a Buddhist.
( I made MY money off of that oil spill too bad about those BIRDS !) hyper

part of buddhism is to reduce negativity and try and make the best of what is there. maybe some people here should take up meditation. i wouldn't be alive today if i hadn't started that some 25 years ago. seriously: not 'hippybullshit' but survivaltactics grin

and for your information: i don't invest in oil. i don't own a car. i have 5kW of solarpanels on my roof.
richard
Well I am huge fan of Chimera products but I have gone on record several times here and on the Chimera forum to complain about his lack of customer service. He has behaved very dishonestly and that is just not good. It looks like he is getting better - I really hope its true - I'd love to remain a customer in the future. If he carries on the same way - to me or to others I just won't.

As for buddhism, I find Felixer's comments really strange to say the least. Buddhism is not just about relaxing and keeping in a good mood. Its about universal compassion or loving kindness to all sentient beings. If one suffers we all suffer. Its also about seeing that actions have consequences and taking responsibility for those consequences. Difficult trick to pull off but I think we should all try - including BC! And the negative consequences of BCs actions shouldn't be ignored just because a couple of personal transactions went well. I also think we only have power if we respond to these kind of issues as a community not as isolated individuals.

As I say, I really hope BC is pulling it together. The products are remarkable and it looks like the best is yet to come!

Richard
felixer
richard wrote:

As for buddhism, I find Felixer's comments really strange to say the least. Buddhism is not just about relaxing and keeping in a good mood.
Richard

this is NOT what i said! read it again ....
anyway: there are many forms of buddhism.
opsysbug
felixer wrote:


this is NOT what i said! read it again ....
anyway: there are many forms of buddhism.


Yea but NONE of them advocate ignoring other peoples pain.
felixer
opsysbug wrote:
felixer wrote:


this is NOT what i said! read it again ....
anyway: there are many forms of buddhism.


Yea but NONE of them advocate ignoring other peoples pain.

and all say that you should walk your own path.
i was offering a technique to relieve that pain. if you want it: fine. if not: also fine. you don't want me to hold your hand, do you?
now if you'll excuse me, i'm going to make some music ....
opsysbug
Yea...me too. lol
vozs
?...................?
felixer
lol!
Nelson Baboon
You must enter a message when posting.
jcn7
Hi all, I ended up getting a refund on my bcx purchase (which undoubtedly I will regret when they do come available)...because I ended up purchasing the "in stock" bc9, and it arrived today. All I can say is WOW!!! Here is a copy of my post over on the bc9 portion of the Chimera forum:

"What a great instrument! I just sent Ben a personal email thanking him for making such a lovely and potent device. I have a very nice moderate Euro modular synthesizer, and as far as I'm concerned the bc9 can do things that my Euro fully patched can not and it can do it in such an elegant way. I can definitely see this as a center piece of any modular gear. The CV and Gate inputs really open this baby up! This is IMHO is a must have no brainer purchase. Thanks again Ben, and all the best with all of your developments! Jaime"

I really can't say enough great things about it...it really has impressed me as a well crafted and thought out instrument. I really think as long as Ben can take care of his outstanding commitments as well as only sell what he has in inventory, he can do much to win over the modular community with his elegant designs and a new breed of modular instruments. Jaime
opsysbug
Oh Yes !! And Mr. Ben was SO HAPPY that we are all SO HAPPY about the BC9 that he just went in there and CLEANED whistlin' all those BAD BAD emails out of his forum. Nice sweep man-too bad you can't clean this one. lolspew
opsysbug
...all right all right I'm MEDITATING ! very frustrating
richard
did he clean the forum again opsys? AFAIK the forum was cleaned months ago - but its still full of complaints and people asking for refunds.

i think jcn7 is right about the BC9. Its remarkable - though a bit noisy, which is shame. The fact that BC made sure he had stock before taking money doesn't forgive old sins - but its a positive step.
dalasv
Noise in the signal is also my only real criticism of the bC16. I even have the cable that bypasses the headphone amp, and it still seems a little noisy to me. It's not a dealbreaker, but if Ben improves the noise level in future designs, I'll be stoked.
RoyNeary
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
The bC16 is a little more complex as there are still back-orders pending, here's a breakdown (63):

June 2008 - 11 (these are in final assembly and test)
July 2008 - 4
August 2008 - 5
Sept 2008 - 8
Nov 2008 - 12
Dec 2008 - 1
Feb 2009 - 3
March 2009 - 6
Sept 2009 - 1
Feb 2010 - 2
March 2010 - 5
May 2010 - 2
June 2010 - 3

This is pretty much the whole picture as far as bC16 back-orders.


As it's almost exactly one month later, would you be able to provide an update to this list? Understanding the rate of fulfillment will give us a better idea of when we might expect a delivery.
16osc
or just buy one from noisebug:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chimera-Synthesis-bC16-miniature-synthesizer-modul ar-/290461055197?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Keyboards_MIDI&hash=item43a0d3f8dd&ss PageName=RSS:B:SHOP:US:101

(forgive me if this has been posted already)

I can only assume these are all new stock. i'm still waiting on my order from 2008.
coilsandco
http://www.chimerasynthesis.com/#/dealers/4533641083
16osc
I guess my point is why are they stocking dealers if they still have back orders. I've been waiting for 2 years. Why is he sending out fresh ones to dealers.
RoyNeary
16osc wrote:
I guess my point is why are they stocking dealers if they still have back orders. I've been waiting for 2 years. Why is he sending out fresh ones to dealers.


I saw the noisebug site. Unbelievable that paid up customers are still being made to wait. It seems this waiting will never end. So when did you order yours? Remaining June 2008 units were said to be almost out the door a month ago.
Fidgit
RoyNeary wrote:
were said to...


Mr. Green hihi lol applause
rob.ocelot
My June 2008 order arrived a few weeks ago.

Now in the process of sending my December 2007 version 1 BC-16 back to Ben for an upgrade.
jimmie
I've just placed an order for BC9. Is there a manual for BC9 available anywhere?
opsysbug
Just keeping it real seriously, i just don't get it

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=262
rob.ocelot
A ton of 'shipping soon' emails sent.
The ship dates come and go.
A new 'mystery product' announced on the Chimera web page.
Lack of any other communication.

Anyone else feeling a sense of deja vu?

Feh.
dalasv
So horrible. You're getting me angry again.
opsysbug
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=262&start=15

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=251

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=264

http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=132

edit: Instead of what I said, I'll say that someone who is just a "bad businessman" does not continue to engage in the same practices for years on end. eek!
ndkent
Perhaps the "mystery" product is the next phase after taking orders for not shipping but at least described units hmmm.....
richard
well why I fell for his tricks and paid upfront for a BCX well over a year ago is certainly a fucking mystery

bigs chords...... "won't get fooled again....."

seriously, I don't want to see him go out of business - his work speaks for itself, but i think nobody here should give him money upfront for anything, ever again. We should try and train him to be a responsible member of the community.
felixer
richard wrote:
i think nobody here should give him money upfront for anything, ever again.


speak for yourself. i had no problems at all and will continue to send money to whomever i please .....
opsysbug
felixer wrote:


speak for yourself. i had no problems at all and will continue to send money to whomever i please .....


"I like to be ON the forum but I am not interested or concerned about
what happens to anyone else here. I do not wish to take part in any sense of community. Even though the truth stare me in the FACE as I read these posts, I will not only continue my own path but will get angry and defensive
when anyone actually tries to point it out !"

Why don't you just send Ben ALL your money sir ? I'm sure he'll keep it in the bank for you ! And...ahem...have we not gone through this before with you? lol
richard
"speak for yourself"....

I am speaking for myself, dummy, I said "i think nobody should..."

And yes, I do believe we should act as a community sometimes, especially when certain people realise we are are so excited about our toys that we offer easy prey to liars, cheats, scammers and crooks (and yes that belief has got me into a shitload of trouble on this forum). Fortunately Ben is only the first of these, but its a bad habit we shouldn't encourage by lending him product development money on false pretences

Its my opinion, felixer, and I am allowed it, you go and do what the fuck you want...
opsysbug
richard wrote:
"speak for yourself"....

I am speaking for myself, dummy, I said "i think nobody should..."

And yes, I do believe we should act as a community sometimes, especially when certain people realise we are are so excited about our toys that we offer easy prey to liars, cheats, scammers and crooks (and yes that belief has got me into a shitload of trouble on this forum). Fortunately Ben is only the first of these, but its a bad habit we shouldn't encourage buy lending him product development money on false pretences

Its my opinion, felixer, and I am allowed it, you go and do what the fuck you want...


Well said.
richard
and

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22713
coilsandco
richard wrote:
and

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22713


confused

Plus ça change...

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=noisebu gpomona&ftab=AllFeedback

People who have bought direct from Noisebug in the past months have got their bc16s whilst there are still orders outstanding from 2008.

jawdrop
felixer
well well. how sensitive of you all. and intolerant. and unpolite. definetely not the kind of cummunity i wish to be a part of. sounds a bit like the 'church of buchla'. but maybe it's just your typical internet forum hmmm.....

ps i'm on this forum to gather and give information. that's all ....
opsysbug
*Thinks* Church of Buchla ? hmmm.....
(Wonders if he'll ever own one... seriously, i just don't get it )
richard
felixer, I just disagree with you is all, no need to run home with your panties in a twist: seriously, i just don't get it
jcn7
Well considering all of my frustration with Ben over 1.5 years and not a bcx, as well as being banned for a short while from his forum, I just ordered my 2nd bc9 from Noisebug (in stock item). I think that is the best way to purchase Chimera products at this point. After using my 1 bc9, I've come to realize that these devices are like having a small modular and when coupled with my moderate sized Euro modular, it becomes exponentially crazy. I'm planning on using both bc9's as modularized oscillators within my Euro modular...crazy stuff!!! Anyway, like I said, I think the best way to buy from Ben is to buy from one of his dealers that have the item in stock. Jaime
rob.ocelot
I think it's very telling when Noisebug is only selling the BC-16, BC-8 and BC-9. Leads me to believe the SM-16/CSM and BC-X are destined for 2011 (or 2112 if we are operating on Chimera Time).

The realities of a one man operation mean that he's either doing one thing at a time -- be it producing, assembling, shipping, designing, dreaming, or arsering around -- or he's trying to multitask and do all of those things at once in a half-assed way.

He needs to hire someone to help him ASAP (and needed to do this back in 2008). He also needs to stop fussing about QC so much that it prevents anything from leaving the factory. The longer something is delayed the greater chance he'll be tempted to redesign or add new features to an existing product. Or worse -- lose interest in the current stuff (hello? customers waiting?) and we get bullshit out of the blue like the BC-9 and this recent 'mystery product'.
richard
I don't know even why I'm bumping this...

sad banana

just pissed off with this situation I suppose
coilsandco
Dead Banana
rob.ocelot
Um yay.

The 'secret product' is a wood cased BC-6 (a more refined BC-8).

So this is what Ben has been doing? seriously, i just don't get it

What ever happened to the black cased BC-16 and the aluminum anodized BC-16 that was announced exactly a year ago?

The SM-16 has now been renamed the Schrodinger's Cat-16 for it's ability to simultaneously be dead, alive, modular and an entirely different product alltogether for all of 2010.

The BC-X is so far off the radar the RAF found it in 1942 flying over the North Sea and shot it down.

The PB-303 might be the best ever 303 clone (better than any according to Ben) but if it falls over in Ben's development lab does it make a sound?

But hey, you can rush right out and buy a BC-9 and a BC-6 right now and support Chimera so they can keep bringing out new products while everyone else waits for shit they paid for years ago.
Nelson Baboon
I got the email about the bc-6 - how is it more "refined" than the bc-8? It just looks like it's prettier cosmetically, but doesn't have anything new in it functionally?

rob.ocelot wrote:
Um yay.

The 'secret product' is a wood cased BC-6 (a more refined BC-8).

So this is what Ben has been doing? seriously, i just don't get it

What ever happened to the black cased BC-16 and the aluminum anodized BC-16 that was announced exactly a year ago?

The SM-16 has now been renamed the Schrodinger's Cat-16 for it's ability to simultaneously be dead, alive, modular and an entirely different product alltogether for all of 2010.

The BC-X is so far off the radar the RAF found it in 1942 flying over the North Sea and shot it down.

The PB-303 might be the best ever 303 clone (better than any according to Ben) but if it falls over in Ben's development lab does it make a sound?

But hey, you can rush right out and buy a BC-9 and a BC-6 right now and support Chimera so they can keep bringing out new products while everyone else waits for shit they paid for years ago.
rob.ocelot
He refers to the sound as 'distilled BC-8'. My BC-8 can dive into some really far out sonic territory that makes it difficult sometimes to get back to something a little more normal (or musical/useful, depending on your perspective). It looks to me like the BC-6 streamlines some of the user interface and makes it harder to really go off the rails modulation wise. A slightly tamer BC-8, if you will.

It's a cool device but I'm more concerned that Ben is spending his time making cosmetic and functional tweaks to existing products.
Nelson Baboon
ah - the whole idea of the bc8 to me is that it's so 'undistilled'....I actually prefer it to the bc9.
vozs
You're all freaks trying to buy from a freak! hihi

You dont *neeeed* a Chimera, what you need are a Plan B!
felixer
rob.ocelot wrote:

But hey, you can rush right out and buy ..... a BC-6 right now and support Chimera so they can keep bringing out new products ....

yep. i just did. you can thank me later hihi
NV
felixer wrote:
rob.ocelot wrote:

But hey, you can rush right out and buy ..... a BC-6 right now and support Chimera so they can keep bringing out new products ....

yep. i just did. you can thank me later hihi


I understand that you disagree with the thoughts of others in this discussion, but coming back into this thread solely to goad them seems unnecessary.
felixer
NV wrote:
felixer wrote:
rob.ocelot wrote:

But hey, you can rush right out and buy ..... a BC-6 right now and support Chimera so they can keep bringing out new products ....

yep. i just did. you can thank me later hihi


I understand that you disagree with the thoughts of others in this discussion, but coming back into this thread solely to goad them seems unnecessary.


negative? moi? au contraire, amice .....
may i remind people that this thread is called 'who own a chimera'? i own a bc8. many others here do not own any chimera gear. maybe they should start a new thread called 'who aspires to a chimera'. or 'let's insult ben fisher'. and let this tread become something where real users can discuss the actual instruments. and not be bogged down in futile discussions about delivery times .....
NV
I would love to hear your work with the BC8 and why you enjoy it. I just request that instigation please be put aside.
richard
from the Chimera website posted last week:

Quote:
bCX/SM16:
For those long-awaited and patient synthheads, the bCX is finally here (website being updated this week), the SM16 is arriving shortly afterwards.


as usual, no such update came.

In my opinion, like Plan B, the fact of the proprietor's repeated failures are beginning to loom larger than whether the synths are any good or not. I have owned BC16, BC8 and BC9, they are all excellent synths - as I have repeated several times on this thread. But I reserve the right to complain about a company who persistently lies to its customers all I fucking want.

BC doesn't need defending, he needs to get his shit together.
Nuuj
Quote:

BC doesn't need defending, he needs to get his shit together.


+1

My guess is that he stays in business via a trust fund or something similar.
His business can't be funding itself when you take into account all his capital expenditure on manufacturing equipment that he doesn't know how to us vs. the limited number of devices he is able to crank out.
Fidgit
+1

This guy is no fun to deal with.
felixer
NV wrote:
I would love to hear your work with the BC8 .....

allright, here you go: http://soundcloud.com/felixer/bc8speak
main attractionpoint for me with the bc8 is that it can sound both sweet and wild. the modded speak'n'spell is another favourite. enjoy!
coilsandco
What long nails you have!
felixer
coilsandco wrote:
What long nails you have!

only the thumb on my left hand. handy for if you can't find a knife ;-)
dalasv
I want a French speak & spell.
NV
felixer wrote:

allright, here you go: http://soundcloud.com/felixer/bc8speak


Very nice felixer, really a unique almost "hollow" atmospheric sound to it. It seems like it'd be right at home on a soundtrack for a game like Dead Space. I especially liked the beginning and the dynamic glitchy period from about 5:00-6:00.


felixer wrote:
coilsandco wrote:
What long nails you have!

only the thumb on my left hand. handy for if you can't find a knife ;-)


I was just about to ask if you're a classical guitarist.
felixer
dalasv wrote:
I want a French speak & spell.

they did make german ones, i've been told. maybe also french? it's also said that the english and american versions sound different ....
but with the freakenspeak mods i'm not sure if the difference would be notable ;-)

@NV: thanks 8_)
dalasv
FRENCH ONE

felixer
dalasv wrote:
FRENCH ONE

lol! actually it sounds more natural than the american one.
felixer
just received my bc6 Trampoline a mere 10 days between order and delivery. it sounds nice! will try to make a demo later on ....
Nuuj
felixer wrote:
just received my bc6 Trampoline a mere 10 days between order and delivery. it sounds nice! will try to make a demo later on ....


Great, I hope he takes the profit from this sale to fund the manufacture of all the devices he still owes people.
coilsandco
Nuuj wrote:
felixer wrote:
just received my bc6 Trampoline a mere 10 days between order and delivery. it sounds nice! will try to make a demo later on ....


Great, I hope he takes the profit from this sale to fund the manufacture of all the devices he still owes people.


not this shit again
richard
Hey, that's a coincidence, I just didn't receive my BCX. Only 495 days between order and non-delivery! Wow! Great! Super!
felixer
here's a little demo of the new bc6 i just made:
http://soundcloud.com/felixer/felixer-bc6
vco pitch is played by the internal sequencer. the rest is me having fun with the knobs ;-) one track fairly dry, one track only reverb. enjoy!
RoyNeary
Chimera's own forum has been down for the last couple of days.
Nuuj
RoyNeary wrote:
Chimera's own forum has been down for the last couple of days.


Probably just one of his periodic cleansing of unflattering discussion.
Fidgit
lol

What crossed my mind, too...
No, basically it's not funny anymore.
richard
ominous

I guess its just a matter of time before it all goes tits up. Like a fool I'm gambling he'll squeeze out the BCX before he does.

He is the Ryanair of synth manufacturers - good value but a what a miserable fucking experience!
RoyNeary
I wish that he would keep the forum up because he and other users have posted information that isn't available elsewhere, such as for mods or understanding aspects of the synths. Hopefully it is just temporary.
RoyNeary
RoyNeary wrote:
I wish that he would keep the forum up because he and other users have posted information that isn't available elsewhere, such as for mods or understanding aspects of the synths. Hopefully it is just temporary.


Well, I've decided to ask for a refund for my bC16 and SM16.
zdarma
RoyNeary wrote:

Well, I've decided to ask for a refund for my bC16 and SM16.


I asked for one 6 months ago
confused
rob.ocelot
Roy,

Let us know how the refund goes.

I've come this close ---->|| to canceling my order in the past. Still waiting for a BC-X and SM-16. I'm giving him until the end of the year to ship these and not a day more. At that point I am done and finished with Chimera.

On the positive side I did get two BC-16's and a BC-8 from him. When he actually feels like shipping stuff and being communicative it's great. When the forum goes mysteriously offline and his website doesn't even have a "be back soon" you start to get that queasy feeling. It's especially frustrating after months of silence following a flurry of "Shipping Soon" emails.
fowl
TIP- IF you use a BC16 - PLEASE FOR GOD's SAKE get the PC1500 - double bananna to grounded Jack cable - the sounds is VASTLY improved. I can't believe I waited soo long to get one. Plus you can use it send CV to your modular.
coilsandco
Anybody heard anything?
transfixer
the chimera forum is up and running again!!!
yupiiiieee!

hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper
opsysbug
Great...all the problems are solved...
a100user
I have a Chimera that I'm going to put up for sale here on Muff's. It has the inverter as well.

Suggestion on it's value? I'm out of touch with the market.

Thanks

David
richard
Well, I swapped mine for a Zorlon Canon and and a Livewire Vulcan smile

I've seen 'em going to £200. I sold mine because it was too damn fiddly for my big fingers, but listening back to the recordings I gotta say they sound really good.
a100user
Cheers Richard
Fidgit
ben is easy on promising refunds but very hesitant on actually doing something.

i started some investigations about debt enforcement / money claims in UK. not living in the UK i'm not familiar with it, but the internet provides a lot of information on this annoying topic.

other wigglers may be interested in joining - submitting ONE claim for all people who wait for a refund may be more cost effective. i won't do it tomorrow, but i will do it if bens behavior doesn't change, i.e. when he goes on with his usual game.

or maybe some affected UK based wigglers with some knowledge on these issues can advice or support. let's see. meh
Umcorps
Fidgit wrote:

or maybe some affected UK based wigglers with some knowledge on these issues can advice or support. let's see. meh


Details of how I did it are buried in the history of this thread, but UK Wigglers who want to take legal action to get their money back need to start HERE!!.

Very simple process and you include your costs in the claim so, while you have to make the initial outlay (about 60 ukp from memory) to make the claim you get that back when your claim is successful. And as Mr Fisher has no defence he can make, having taken your money already, you will be successful as long as he remains solvent.

I don't think it's possible to do any kind of "class action" this way. You have to do it as an individual. And I don't think you can do it if you aren't a UK resident.

But its an effective process if you can use it.

Worked for me thumbs up
Fidgit
cheers. well, i got some PMs as well and i still believe that i / we can resolve it with ben in a simple way. i'm trying hard and for quite some time already.
i certainly don't skimp on communication attempts with bc, however, the success (=reply) rate is not overwhelming.

i guess bc reads this forum, too.
dalasv
I was given a bc8 by a kindly gentleman, and I have to say, it's quite fun to mess around with. I use it live kind of like a dub siren while my bandmates are laying down the base track.
coilsandco
Fidgit wrote:

i guess bc reads this forum, too.


One would hope so
richard
I doubt he gives a fuck what we say about him. but then again I wouldn't predict anything about BCs behavior myself

for example he can be really prompt and helpful when it suits him
coilsandco
http://chimerasynths.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=275
Fidgit
talking is cheap. for years...
opsysbug
Haha it's just like this forum. A bunch of guys discussing gear.
Except...over there it's purely hypothetical. "Let me continue this discussion
for years about this thing that I have never seen". Weird.

Don't worry-the (insert cool letters/number here) is shipping
AT THE END OF THIS MONTH ! thumbs up
richard
aaaaandddddddddd, its next month already, no BCX, no update ... almost 2 years waiting on this one now. So, the usual shit then.

Its not even a mistake or fuck up, its just how BC chooses to do business: you might get your synth in 2 weeks or you might get it in 2 years. Or not.... then every now and then he cleans the forum from all the inevitable nasty comments such an appraoach engenders. Then one time I think he put them all back up again - wierd. In this relationship BC keeps all the power and withholds all information - so as a customer you never know what the fuck is going on. You start to feel grateful for a meaningless update or a new bogus delivery date just to hear that he is still alive/in business and that therefore maybe, one day, you'll get a synth. Its a kind of abusive relationship really... one in which the perp really doesn't see what he is doing wrong.

As I've always said, his synths are very, very good, but think very hard before supporting this kind of behaviour with your hard earned dosh guys.
Fidgit
i don't support liars and thieves anymore.
i will do so as soon as they prove that my judgement and evidence were wrong.
richard
I don't think he's a thief, but he's the third big liar I've had to deal with since getting into modulars :( Fortunately the good guys in our little scene faaaaaaar outweigh the wankers. BC must be losing customers all over the place because of threads like this, he just doesn't seem to give a fuck though. Another very talented guy letting himself down badly.

I don't see any excuse for promising refunds and not delivering them.
Nuuj
richard wrote:

I don't see any excuse for promising refunds and not delivering them.


The only excuses I can think of are not having the money to actually give refunds or purposefully being a jerk.
If he gave me a refund when I asked for it, I might have thought about being his customer again in the future.

I stand by my theory that he only continues to do business via some outside source of funding, such as a trust fund, or legal settlement or wealthy relatives. There is no way he could buy all that manufacturing equipment and release such a tiny volume of product, at such low prices and still remain in business. Things just don't add up.
mirri
Are there any numbers of how many units he has sold over the years?
richard
I have no idea, but he has occassionally named the number of runs and so it looks like a few hundred to me.

but all information eminating from BC should be treated as unreliable

not as criminal/crazy as Randal, not as abusive as PG but in his own way, every bit as devious and confounding
Fnord
Perhaps we could get all of the people who have done harm to the synth community to duke it out in some battle royale cage match. The proceeds of the tickets could go towards paying the people who have been ripped off and wronged. WHO WILL SURVIVE AND WHAT WILL BE LEFT OF THEM???
sismofyt
That dood has a weird way of doing business Dead Banana

What I can't fathom is that in order to make money he has to get a hundred pcbs + enclosures made at once or else it won't make sense. So why doesn't he ship them out?

They're rather unique, cheap and I'll bet he could sell a gazzillion if he didn't have to handle the business ends of things (<-- just speculating)

That said, I ordered my bC8 and got it within five days! Got friends who waited months and I know people who are still waiting woah



(Edited to add p0rn pic)
jenamu6
Bought my BC9 form Rastko......and I love it.

krv
me too love

felixer
nice tracks! thumbs up
@jenamu6: did you ever try to make the bc9 follow 1v/oct? wondering if that would work. would be nice! i only have bc6 and bc8. but i work in quad, so i guess i'll need two more at some point hihi
hellohihowareyou
OPINIONS:

- The BC8 is fun and quirky.
- The BC16 is impressive, but not for me.
- The man is horribly unorganized and probably does some combination of lying to himself and lying to others.


FACTS:

- I ordered and paid for a BCX 2 years ago.
- At that time CS was saying that the BCX was to be released "in two months"
- I've received an email that it going out to me next week on two different occasions and it has never arrived (or been released)

- The Chimera Synthesis forum was (before many of the posts were deleted) FILLED with people who had asked for their money back on many occasions after waiting longer than they wanted to and who then claimed that he did not refund them or respond to their requests. Many ugly public arguments ensued between CS and customers.

- Recently, after taking people's money over 2 years ago for an "upcoming" sequencer, he notified the forum that he has canceled production of the sequencer, is turning elements of it into a modular sequencer, and will put people's money toward that instead.
- There is nothing resembling a firm release date for the modular sequencer and even if their was, most people would not take it seriously.


eek!
krv
FACTS:

I bought my (lusted and beloved) bc8 second hand from a (very well known) wiggler....I'd never give "that person" a cent!
OculoRapido
Of course, everyone is entitled to their own perspectives and opinions. ;-)

Here's mine.

I have both a bc8 and bc16. The latter was one of the 'original' white plastic versions, delivered 20 months after the order, after several new intervening products were introduced, after 6 cycles of broken delivery promises, after 3 requests for refunds.

I think that the continuing unfulfilled bc16 saga, including the dropped aluminum bodies, pick-n-place and CNC machine investment sagas, stiffed customers, forum deceptions, etc., represent entirely unacceptable business practices.

Given that unfulfilled customer orders still exist, in the year following products being sold through commercial outlets, I have some trouble understanding how people can continue to support these synth designs. As someone else wrote here, much earlier, it feels a bit like one is buying "blood diamonds"...

I have a LOT of modular and semi-modular synth gear, with electronic music production experience extending back to the early '70s. What I really don't get (but can understand) is how people can characterize the bc8 and bc16 as great little synths. They both have known output noise, levels, and power shortcomings, and they don't seem to play well or to integrate more than superficially with the vast array of other synths.

My bcs are sitting around, pretty much fancy paper weights, gathering dust, while useful sounds are produced with other synths that didn't require virtual interest-free loans to the manufacturer, other customers enduring years of broken promises of delivery, and multiple new and dropped designs offered for sale and delivery. I just don't see where these designs, although small, roundish and different, are just that hot. But as others have indicated, some folks feel free to make bucks/euros/pounds on the principle that a new sucker is born every minute.

"Won't get fooled again"?
dansna
Hi everyone,
I've had a bc16 on order / requested a refund for 2 and a half years.
Recently I've been threatening to 'go public' with Chimera's behaviour to connections I have at various magazines and to my mailing list as a musician.

This has provoked the following responses from Chimera today:

"On principle, anyone that asked before you will be refunded before you. And if you kill CSL then no one gets product or refunded, and Viv & I lose over $200,000 which we don't have..."
when I asked for more details of the status of the company and back orders:

"I'm not going to get into a detailed analysis of CSL P&L. The bC16 has not been available to order for a long time, and mk2's are soon to ship on rotation. I'm not giving timescales deliberately. "

Two questions:
- has anyone actually received a bc16 recently? and how long did you wait for it?
- what would you like me to do? should i spread the word of his terrible business practices as far as i can (thinking of informing people who might be about to order things from him) or should i keep quiet (in the hope that someday all the people with back orders will get synths)?

your thoughts would be helpful!
opsysbug
Hello OR nice to see you here ( and in THIS particular thread. Surprise!)
I can't believe we are still talking about this guy.

Yea man, spread the word. Nobody is getting BC16's anyway. Lets face
it. When all this shit started years ago I wrote to Matrixsynth and Musicthing
warning of a scam. Musicthing vouched for the guy immediately, Matrix
was a little more careful.
Let's remember-"Viv and him" got a lot of that money by very dishonest
practice ('Viv" is actually his only "employee" I think and he lied to me
about that as well) so whatever karma comes from that...
rob.ocelot
What gets me is that it'll be somehow "your fault" if you out them publicly.

How about the shitty business practices that got them to this point?

Just imagine if he honestly built synths to order or put them on ebay as he finished them. we're not worthy Instead he got greedy and wanted some new toys (C&C equipment, reflow furnace, etc). BTW, these new toys are busy building stuff for his other side businesses like the steadycam and robotics companies.

Also, if he's $200k in the hole where is the incentive for him for finish any existing orders that are already paid for? That money has already burned a hole in his pocket.

Just think about how precarious this companies finances are if ONE PERSON (admittedly with connections) can tip the entire apple cart...


Oh and to keep the record straight, the sequencer was delayed for two years, canceled, morphed into a modular, canceled, and reverted to the sequencer it originally was designed to be, and currently is just on the cusp of the eve of the hour of being possibly able to ship within 2011 (read as: delayed)
Nuuj
Those quotes from his email speak for themselves.
What possible scenario would allow his company to become a success?

I'm so glad I gave up on the refund idea and went for the original white BC16 instead of the non-existent anodized version. At least I was able to sell that at a loss to a friend.
opsysbug
"these new toys are busy building stuff for his other side businesses like the steadycam and robotics companies"

...i think I saw something somewhere-some proof that he owes people lots of money in this other gig too. It's been going on a long time.
dalasv
Ugh. I hate that this is still a part of my life. Still waiting on a bCX.
richard
dalasv wrote:
Ugh. I hate that this is still a part of my life. Still waiting on a bCX.


yup and yup

if chimera go down the tubes it would be shame in some ways, but its been on the cards since the beginning. There is one person and one person only who needs to take the responsibility for that. How about it Ben? do you feel like saving your own business?

As for not being great synths, I sold my BC8 and BC16 because they didn't suit how I work. But they are both superb at what they do. And by anyone's reckoning the BC9 is a great synth. These are the only reasons I'd be sad to see him go out of business - his designs are brilliant.
coilsandco
I have no reason to believe his 'we stand to lose $200k' claims. I have no reason to believe a word this man says. He has lied and lied and lied.
krv
I simply don't understand what's wrong with this guy... He made synths everybody would buy.... he could sell hundreds of units, getting money and having everybody happy... I just don't understand why he's doing this???
Nuuj
I really think the public history of this and related companies, suggests sociopathy or antisocial personality disorder may be involved.
felixer
richard wrote:
... I'd be sad to see him go out of business - his designs are brilliant.

yep ....
Umcorps
krv wrote:
I simply don't understand what's wrong with this guy... He made synths everybody would buy.... he could sell hundreds of units, getting money and having everybody happy... I just don't understand why he's doing this???


Try looking at it another way.

Regardless of why he does it, the fact that over several years now he has done it with absolute, unerring consistency is actually really useful.

Such a well established pattern of behaviour at least lets you make accurate predictions about outcomes.

When you give money to Mr Fisher, you are not buying a synth, you are buying the ticket to a lottery of indeterminate length where a synth is the prize.

If you're OK with that, great. You made an informed choice and know about the risks.

But if you just like to, you know, buy stuff like you do in a shop, Mr Fisher's Lottery of Pain and Misery is not the synth you are looking for.
Christopher Winkels
This fellow sounds like yet another person who should step back from manufacturing and license the fabrication and sales of his concepts and designs to someone else. He'd make more money, have more time to tinker, and the customers would be happier.

Or at the very least he could outsource manufacturing only to a reputable third party and run the front office stuff - sales, design, shipping - himself.
coilsandco
Nuuj wrote:
I really think the public history of this and related companies, suggests sociopathy or antisocial personality disorder may be involved.


Yup
dalasv
Christopher Winkels wrote:
This fellow sounds like yet another person who should step back from manufacturing and license the fabrication and sales of his concepts and designs to someone else. He'd make more money, have more time to tinker, and the customers would be happier.

Or at the very least he could outsource manufacturing only to a reputable third party and run the front office stuff - sales, design, shipping - himself.


You wouldn't believe how much advice we've given this guy over the years. He's not going to change anything any time soon.
Christopher Winkels
Oh, I'm under no illusions.
transfixer
the chimera forum is down!
very frustrating
Fidgit
transfixer wrote:
the chimera forum is down!
very frustrating


no sweat, he's just removing the "unfavorable" comments from customers he screwed and lied to in the past few months.
his forum will be back soon, full with fresh promises and things he'll achieve and deliver very soon, shortly, next week or so...
this happens regularly for years now.
opsysbug
Watch out he might try to take this one down too lol
Nuuj
It's motherfucking bacon yo I Can't wait to see what new mythical products he has for sale! It's motherfucking bacon yo
rob.ocelot
This might very well be the last straw. He was threatening to stop the company last summer (which in retrospect seems now like a ploy for attention cry). The last such time he 'weeded' the forum he removed a whole bunch of useful posts about interfacing, DIY power supples, how the BC-16 ring mod works (you know, stuff that his never completed but always forthcoming manuals should have).

FFS, he can't keep simple promises like "I'm updating the website with real pictures this weekend". Instead we are treated to twitters about drinking lattes and other bullshit. He's not as mustache-twirling evil as Plan B and bragging about spending your money -- he's much more subtle.
Cargocult
Hi guys,
I'm a refugee from the Chimera forum, banned a while ago when I asked some awkward questions..but it did result in me finally getting my money back for the BC16, phew!

Thank you Muffwiggler for a safe haven to find uncensored info on Chimera Synthesis and users experiences!

Although I'm not now having anything to do with Chimera I do from time to time have a look at what is happening..

As some folk still have money tied up in products still to be delivered I wanted to give a heads-up as I see that yesterday Chimera Synthesis Limited filed 'First notification of strike-off action in London Gazette (Section 652)'..(From ukdata.com)

From which it look like it's the first stage in the voluntary dissolution of the company.
I don't have any background in this field, it could be that this is just to rearrange the management but thought you all should know.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could look into it...

Anyway it's something I'd want to know if I still had any money tied up.
The big positive of my 'Chimera experience' is meeting some great folk on the form and finding this forum. And while waiting the 2.5 years for the BC16 getting some great gear from Tom Bugs. (What a contrast in customer service, thanks Tom! SlayerBadger! )

Rant and ramble over..
coilsandco
Cargocult wrote:

As some folk still have money tied up in products still to be delivered I wanted to give a heads-up as I see that yesterday Chimera Synthesis Limited filed 'First notification of strike-off action in London Gazette (Section 652)'..(From ukdata.com)

From which it look like it's the first stage in the voluntary dissolution of the company.
I don't have any background in this field, it could be that this is just to rearrange the management but thought you all should know.


This doesn't look good at all. Perhaps Ben could be so kind as to come on here and explain the situation?
Nuuj
His forum is up again, someone should ask these questions there and he should answer them.
LoFiFreq
I got rid of my bc16
it was just ... taking up space lol
It was fun, but just a tinker toy.
opsysbug
Nuuj wrote:
His forum is up again, someone should ask these questions there and he should answer them.


Didn't you ask all the questions like a year ago? I did.
richard
I asked him some more questions

and I finally demanded a refund

no response to that as of yet
construct09
i got 2 bc 16s from auctions on ebay. i spent $900 appx in sept 09 with chimera and received nothing except for a fraudulent tracking number and the usual bullshit. it,s a shame chimera is run by such a jerk because bc16s are a lot of fun
rob.ocelot
richard wrote:
I asked him some more questions

and I finally demanded a refund

no response to that as of yet


Richard, I saw how he treated you in the Chimera forum.

Disgraceful. I'm pretty sure he's acting like that because the whole thing is about to go tits up.

Keep us posted on your refund, because I am canceling my order next week. I've had enough of that assclown.
Fidgit
rob.ocelot wrote:
richard wrote:
I asked him some more questions

and I finally demanded a refund

no response to that as of yet


Richard, I saw how he treated you in the Chimera forum.

Disgraceful. I'm pretty sure he's acting like that because the whole thing is about to go tits up.

Keep us posted on your refund, because I am canceling my order next week. I've had enough of that assclown.



richard is not the only one waiting for a refund... when asking ben for the money you get nothing but lies and more lies. as soon as he actually delivers anything else than lies, i'll update and correct my post.
Nuuj
I think the list of people who have asked for a refund and received one, without taking formal legal action, is quite small.

If you want your money my recommendation would be to kiss his ass while asking for the refund, talking about what a genius he is etc., and claim that you will order something again in the future when you have the money you just need your money back now due to some hardship or something.

He does not seem to want to give refunds to angry customers.
Umcorps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
richard
for sure he wants to punish people who are not nice enough to him and he tries to blame them for his own failures

cf: Peter Grenader's Adam Henry policy

its undeclared on BCs case but the same.

shame, as i never tire of saying, I love the BC9
richard
while we are on the subject. How does one go about such a legal action in the UK? Its only £150 but I'm damned if I will let it lie.

Unlike the Randal scandal which seemed irretrievable I am at least a UK citizen
Nuuj
If you look through the thread there is information about what legal steps to take within the UK posted about a year and a half ago. I think by Umcorps.
richard
thanks. In the meantime I got this from Ben

"Hi Richard, I'm quite happy to refund any bCX's frankly it pays us to do it as these units are going to be around £1K. We are about to release the SM16/CSM and deal with a couple of refunds there, bCX will follow and any refunds customers want."

he's a playa, I'll give him that. Not really sure what to make of that
opsysbug
Get your monies quick like...and don't let him spin you!
rob.ocelot
richard wrote:
thanks. In the meantime I got this from Ben

"Hi Richard, I'm quite happy to refund any bCX's frankly it pays us to do it as these units are going to be around £1K. We are about to release the SM16/CSM and deal with a couple of refunds there, bCX will follow and any refunds customers want."

he's a playa, I'll give him that. Not really sure what to make of that


I've heard that line before. In September of 2008 he revealed that it was costing him ~$600 US to make each of the early BC-16's (he made it sound like it was materials + R&D**)

So how the hell was he making any money?

Enter the cheaper and easier to make BC-8, which he started to sell to people ahead of BC-16 orders. First they were 'limited edition', then he kept releasing batches of them every few months. Anyone remember when he was selling the 'last' of the BC-8's, only for him to magically find some more? seriously, i just don't get it

And there you have in a nutshell how his business operates:

1) Take money upfront for cool gear that only exists in his head
2) Use cool gear money to buy needed equipment and toys for himself
3) Use equipment to make completely different products that are nowhere close to the cool gear but have a better profit margin
4) Work 1-2 days a month on the cool gear that still isn't finished (because your factory and time are taken up making the cheaper widgets from 3)
5) Repeat steps 1-4 until your customers who paid for cool gear get pissed off. Release a few actual examples of cool gear to prominent industry bloggers and musicians so everyone thinks they actually exist
6) Repeat steps 1-4 again, this time with some new iterations of cool gear and cheaper widgets
7) Profit?


That 1000quid the BC-X supposedly costs is really all of us eating the cost of his fucking moronic electroplating experiments, the 'solid aluminum body' experiments (which, if you remember needed brand new C&C equipment!), the R&D and prototyping of the modular -- ALL OF WHICH NEVER SAW THE LIGHT OF DAY IN ANY PRODUCT

**The BC-16 was redesigned at least twice between Dec 2007 and August 2008 -- one of which was a complete re-do from the bottom up
Fidgit
richard wrote:
thanks. In the meantime I got this from Ben

"Hi Richard, I'm quite happy to refund any bCX's frankly it pays us to do it as these units are going to be around £1K. We are about to release the SM16/CSM and deal with a couple of refunds there, bCX will follow and any refunds customers want."

he's a playa, I'll give him that. Not really sure what to make of that


sure, any explanation which explains further delays and postpones any actual payments serves the purpose. been there, done that. confused
Umcorps
richard wrote:
while we are on the subject. How does one go about such a legal action in the UK? Its only £150 but I'm damned if I will let it lie.

Unlike the Randal scandal which seemed irretrievable I am at least a UK citizen


I set out how I did it HERE

Very simple process. And it costs him money when you win. And you will win because he has no defence for his actions. Your main risk is if he goes bust before you get the chance to settle the process. Otherwise its all good.
rob.ocelot
Just noticed this:

http://twitter.com/caribouband/status/48434987804004352

If true, then that doesn't bode well if the word gets around to pro musicians. Who said there's no such thing as bad publicity?


Also, weren't we supposed to get a big update on the SM-16, BC-X, and the ever elusive PB-303 before Musikmesse 2011?

My guess is the (already late) announcement will be a new product that is a fusion of all three units, meaning it will be delayed until the after the apocalypse of 2013... Dead Banana [/b]
felixer
rob.ocelot wrote:
Who said there's no such thing as bad publicity?

i know some people are having trouble. and i know i will be flamed for this. but i ordered two synths from chimera. they were both delivered pronto, sound great and were very affordable. communicating with him was a pleasure. i like his stuff. use it a lot. no problems with me .... ymmv as usual ....
rob.ocelot
Felixer,

If you have such faith in Ben and his speedy delivery how about you go place an order for an SM-16 or BC-X and let us know when you get it?

You seem to think I have it in for Ben -- I don't.

*First three products I ordered all arrived, however I had to politely threaten to withdraw my money to get my first BC-16 after 8 months (ordered in Dec 2007 when they were first offered).

*My BC-8 arrived nice and quick.

*My second BC-16 was ordered in July 2008 and arrived in July 2010, again after politely asking for a refund.

Ben's customer service skills vary from day to day, month to month. Sometimes he's been good, quick to respond to emails, chatty about technical things -- and sometimes he's been downright uncommunicative and rude when he does deem to speak to us.

Right now we are in the latter times.

Felixer, you lucked out and caught him when he was in a good mood. If the amount of annoyed people here on MW, blogs like Matrixsynth, myspace, etc and other forums doesn't make you think twice about that fact then I have to conclude you must get some perverse pleasure in trolling the people who have money tied up in Chimera.

Your behavior is no better than that jerk who got his refund but kept coming back to the Chimera forums and screwing with people. It's really uncool.
Nelson Baboon
felixer wrote:
rob.ocelot wrote:
Who said there's no such thing as bad publicity?

i know some people are having trouble. and i know i will be flamed for this. but i ordered two synths from chimera. they were both delivered pronto, sound great and were very affordable. communicating with him was a pleasure. i like his stuff. use it a lot. no problems with me .... ymmv as usual ....


But no one has ever questioned that some people get their stuff or have good communications. I actually ordered a couple things from him about 2 years ago and got them right on schedule. I was doubtful that there really was a problem that Ben wasn't working very hard to solve - but now 2 years later, the same stuff is still happening, and so many people have had bad experiences.

If he screws with 25% of people, the chances are that any single individual will get his stuff. But there does seem to be a really big problem, I think it's a misunderstanding to ignore it.
reignbear
rob.ocelot wrote:
Just noticed this:

http://twitter.com/caribouband/status/48434987804004352

If true, then that doesn't bode well if the word gets around to pro musicians. Who said there's no such thing as bad publicity?


Also, weren't we supposed to get a big update on the SM-16, BC-X, and the ever elusive PB-303 before Musikmesse 2011?

My guess is the (already late) announcement will be a new product that is a fusion of all three units, meaning it will be delayed until the after the apocalypse of 2013... Dead Banana [/b]


jeez, you'd think at least in the interest of self preservation he would give priority to those dudes to avoid word getting out like that. also, not like it needs to be said again, but it's such a shame he can't get it together. I had a bc9 (bought new from noisebug) that was a lot of fun and i really looked forward to future designs...and the new crystal bc6 is kinda hideous looking. admitedly insignificant in the face of everything else, but still rather telling... d'oh!
richard
Felixer, do you still feel so good that your synths were effectively subsidised by other people who Ben has taken money from on false pretences?

Can't you see there is a fairly direct financial and structural connection between those synths that do get delivered and those that don't?
opsysbug
Mr Felixer was on this same thread a little while back.
No-he does not care if you were ripped off by Ben. Just here to defend
what he knows is a bad deal. Best to ignore and continue conversation.
richard
you are right, I haven't put anyone on ignore for years but he's earned it
MartianR
I ordered a BC16 in June of 2010, and after a few months it became swiftly obvious that I was being strung a line of BS by Mr Fisher. I formally requested a refund early October, but it did take until Late November and a lot of emails to get a result. The icing on the cake was seeing his walnut 'diversions' on youtube which added insult to injury. I feel I was lucky to get my refund, and at least I was able to spend that money on some useful gear on ebay I could actually make music with. I think the big lesson for me was that it really doesn't matter how good or innovative the promise of a product is, if it's not in your hand, it is utterly worthless, and I don't think any instrument is worth putting up with the Ben Fishers of this world. I haven't had as long a wait as some, but it did occur to me that if I valued my own time squandered in chasing up vapourware, then it would actually be more cost-effective to go into a music shop and buy something expensive, and at least walk out with it and make music.
richard
definitive 1st post sir. welcome.

We do talk about happy things here too hihi
felixer
rob.ocelot wrote:

Felixer, you lucked out and caught him when he was in a good mood.

yeah, you're prob right. i'll shut up, count my blessings and leave y'all to it .... i really hope everything turns out well for everybody. sorry to have caused any aggravation. that wasn't my intention (hides)
RoyNeary
Hi all,

I've now entered a claim against Chimera using the Money Claim Online mechanism. I have a UK address I can use so it was possible for me to do this even though I live in the USA.

Strictly speaking you are supposed to deliver a formal "letter before claim" to a defendant before you use this, so I did, and allowed Chimera two weeks to respond to it (per guidelines). I heard nothing back. You can find out more about the "letter before claim" and the details you're supposed to include by going to the Ministry of Justice's "Practice Direction" on "Pre-Action Conduct". The link I used is here E-mail may be adequate for this but I sent one by post as well.

Since I mentioned MCOL I have not received a single response from Ben, and I notice he has taken his postal address off his website's contact page since I did too. What's more, he told me in an e-mail prior to this that he had recently moved factory.

I requested an updated address but heard nothing. Hence I'm assuming that if Chimera has moved, it's only recently and there will still be mail forwarding in effect. I used the address that can be found by searching for Chimera at the UK Data site mentioned earlier. That's the same as the old address that was on the Chimera website.

I mention all this to encourage anyone thinking about doing it to do it soon. If you can only rely on an outdated postal address, time may be running out.

Obviously this effort may be wasted if Chimera has gone bankrupt. However, as I understand it an active claim forbids the company entering bankruptcy. IANAL of course but if that's true, then hopefully my action gives others a window of opportunity to put in a claim.
construct09
I have done exactly the same and i am in Australia, so don,t give up people, c,mon get the ball rolling....
construct09
OH...and i did not require a U.K.adress although i mentioned i was born in the U.K
science
Glad to see some people acting on this. Seems like way too many people in this industry get away with just walking away with stolen money. Hopefully he has to give everyone what is owed.
Fnord
I wish you people the best of luck in your legal endeavors, and I hope that more people file charges.
RoyNeary
construct09 wrote:
OH...and i did not require a U.K.adress although i mentioned i was born in the U.K


I hope for your sake that your claim is OK, but I thought a UK address was necessary for the delivery of case-related papers.
construct09
hi royneary, I cant say for sure, but a senior officer contacted me, asked for any order details i might have and my address as he was paying mr. fisher a visit. He emailed me the next day to say no-one was at said address and that he would endeavor to retrieve my money. I should also mention that i believe "just ask", an online law/consumer service may have become involved as well after i asked them about my rights and made a measly donation. ( i had used this service in the past and still had some "credit" left after another meagre donation) It would be nice to get my money back but hangin fisher out to dry is paramount....
richard
Quote:
You have been banned from this forum.
Please contact the webmaster or board administrator for more information.


thanks Ben
zdarma
Seems like that MCOL site is temporarily down. It looks like I will have to file a claim also. Any details on what else might be required address- and paperwork-wise? I live in the Czech Republic. I first asked for my refund in May 2010, still waiting.
construct09
well, i just supplied google order numbers. (payment was through them in sept09) i don,t recall mr. fisher allocating anything. when i hear more you guys will be the first to know.
rob.ocelot
Alright. So earlier today I posted on the Chimera forum asking for the promised update on the SM-16, BC-X, and PB-303.

About 15 min later Ben posts a long diatribe about him being in the waiting room for his daughter's surgery and reading an email from a 'rude customer' who was demanding a refund, when he apparently had some sort of epiphany about the state of Chimera and how he was basically going to let anyone who isn't polite to him twist in the wind and to go **** themselves. There were some threats of donating people's money to charity. He also stated that anyone waiting will receive product, anyone waiting for a refund will get one, and said something to the effect that the SM-16, BC-X, etc were going to (again) be part of the CSM (the on-again off-again modular system).


10 min after that rant was posted the forum mysteriously goes down and is still down. I wish I had screencap.

So I'm not sure what the hell is up now. I have every sympathy with him for his daughter but I'm unsure how this is in any way related to customer refunds.
science
Based on his pattern, I'd guess the thing about his daughter is a lie.

These people are well versed in the art of using sympathy to get away with whatever they want. Remember Randal/Synthcase and his constant "poor me" bullshit?

Threatening to donate money paid to him for product to charity is fucking bold. I hope this guy gets what's coming to him.
Umcorps
rob.ocelot wrote:

About 15 min later Ben posts a long diatribe about him being in the waiting room for his daughter's surgery and reading an email from a 'rude customer'


Which is why, if your daughter really is in surgery, its probably a good idea to turn your phone off and concentrate on what's important.

And, when you decide not to do that, and read something you don't like that's your problem. No one else's. Yours.

But then, Mr Fisher always prefers to blame everyone else for the shit he creates. So no change there.

A reliable synth maker who didn't take money for things that don't exist and who delivered goods on time as advertised wouldn't have to worry about nasty emails from customers. So would have more time/space to deal with their own domestic crisises.

Who knew? seriously, i just don't get it



Quote:
how he was basically going to let anyone who isn't polite to him twist in the wind and to go **** themselves. There were some threats of donating people's money to charity.


Such a shame you couldn't get a screen cap of that.

Quote:

10 min after that rant was posted the forum mysteriously goes down and is still down.


Presumably it dawned on him that he'd just announced an intention, in a public forum, to commit theft by deception. Which would be of interest to the local police if he was stupid enough to do it.

It's tempting to say its just the same old shit from Ben. Just another one in a long line of passive agressive, narcissistic rants. But I've not seen one where he's openly threatened to do something criminal before.

But that's the only thing that's new here.
Nuuj
You really can't trust anything such a person might say, when they have such a long and well documented history of lying.
Which is why it's foolish to do business with such people.

Good luck to everyone.
richard
Maybe the "rude" customer was me very politely asking (again) for a refund as I no longer believe the BCX will ever be delivered. The timing sounds about right. He basically banned me from the forum for using the word "fuck" and asking him if he was still in business.

Ben might like to know that his customers have stuff like daughters being sick, deaths in family, miscarriages and stuff too - but that doesn't stop him choosing, quite unnecessarily, to add our troubles

He sounds pretty much out of control. I guess the constant lying and general deception must get to you after a while. The public threat to steal people's money and give it to a 3rd party sounds like he's on crack though - maybe he's been out partying with Grenader? Speaking of which Randal and Grenader both used these kinds of family problems as delaying tactics when the shit hit the fan too.

I'll start legal proceedings on Monday if I don't hear from Ben before then.
Nelson Baboon
It's sad, really.

Randall just seemed like a total loser, but Peter and Ben are talented guys. They could have made it work. That I guess is the sad part. I still have hope for Peter - on some level, I think that he gets it - or doesn't but thinks that he should and is trying....which doesn't excuse anything, but leaves hope for redemption. But total forgiveness can only come once he fixes all of the wrongs....

Ben - it's just weird. He goes out of his way, it seems, to convince new buyers that he's cool. I was fooled by him - I bought new stuff from him and he communicated very well, and I got my stuff quickly. I thought that he was working hard to fix all of the issues....but here it is a couple of years later, and it's just gotten worse.
NV
I was sitting there trying to fix my flat tire when boom; bird shit everywhere. Suddenly I realized, fuck this - anyone who doesn't make modules for free can eat balls.
richard
NV wrote:
I was sitting there trying to fix my flat tire when boom; bird shit everywhere. Suddenly I realized, fuck this - anyone who doesn't make modules for free can eat balls.


lol I have no idea what you are talking about
rob.ocelot
Well, if this is the end of Chimera then I can take solace that I did get something from him.

BC-16's are very useful pieces of kit though they don't particularly play nice with CV's from other gear. That actually is a creative advantage in some situations.

In the years to come when Chimera isn't here the BC-16's he did make will be. I doubt it'll be a 'legendary' synth but I don't think it'll be totally worthless either. A shame since the combination of the BC-16, SM-16, and the crazy Steiner filter on the BC-X -- all cross patched with each other and controlled by MIDI would be quite awesome.

All rendered moot by the fact that the guy can't sit still for an afternoon or two to finish writing the manual for the BC-16. A shame because I'm sure there's some cool and not so obvious things about the design that are locked away in his head along with a packload of lies and bullshit.

Fuck engineers, synths should be made solely by musicians! lol
tIB
rob.ocelot wrote:

All rendered moot by the fact that the guy can't sit still for an afternoon or two to finish writing the manual for the BC-16.


I received a BC16 in a trade last week, wasn't suprised to find the incomplete manual I had (dated 2009) was indeed the complete manual... it hadnt changed.

I hope everyone who lost money gets it back, another of the great synth casualty... a real shame he cant hold things together, first impressions of the BC16 is that its a fantastic little synth.
richard
Could someone please PM me whatever is the most recent trading address they have for Chimera. I don't have anything and I need it to make a claim against him.
dalasv
He responded to a concerned email I sent and claimed an update would be posted before the end of the month. Take that however you will.
opsysbug
"end of the month" is one of his favorite lines.
If you could do a search for it on his forum you would find it many many times.
(and the joke was always...end of WHAT month)
rob.ocelot
The joke now seems to be "what forum?" cry

He's done something like this once before, and I wrote him personally pleading the case that the forum had useful information that wasn't in the (skimpy and incomplete) manuals.

The forum eventually came back, neutered but mostly intact.
RoyNeary
The modular is back? I'm glad I lost faith in the SM-16 ever happening.

No replies from Ben but the Money Claim Online process is underway for me and the court papers say Chimera has until 7th May to respond. If I don't get a cheque in the post by that time, I assume I have to press the red button online that forces a judgment against Chimera, but I don't know for sure if it will work given no-one is certain of the current trading address.
Fidgit
before the address "disappeared" from bens website, it was:

Chimera Synthesis Ltd
Ben Fisher
Unit 8, Brookhouse Business Park
Hadleigh Road Industrial Estate
Ipswitch IP2 0EF
United Kingdom


available from here as well, together with some additional information:
http://www.192.com/atoz/business/ipswich-ip2/sc/chimera-synthesis-ltd/ 9f91367a05930b0458ecb86d6661d5622841c364/comp/

eventually ben moved out of unit 8 already. the landlord would know best.

oh, i'm quite sure ben's reading this thread as well. right, ben?

the fact that he removed his address speaks for itself...
but i bet "next week" he'll update his site and release a series of new products to be shipped "next month"! hihi
Tim Stinchcombe
Since it is/was Chimera Synthesis Ltd, Companies House could be a useful source of info:

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/6f15cd19be5c779ed16d9ef85cc2b566/com pdetails

[Edit: these links seem to have limited lifespan - copy paste this company no. 06846252 into the second box and hit 'search']

Notice it says 'proposal to strike off' which means something like he has applied to wind up the company. However the 'order documents on this company' page:

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/6f15cd19be5c779ed16d9ef85cc2b566/wcp rodorder?ft=1

is very likely also a useful source of info, e.g. one or more of them will contain the home address of the company secretary/director - at a mere £1 a piece, to anyone who is owed substantial sums it might be worth downloading a couple! (e.g. the '288a' doc almost certainly contains this info, but might not be 100% up-to-date due to the later 'change of particulars'). Also a little digging around the site as a whole will probably reveal just what info on the company is accessible, and which document contains it, or even a quick call to them, and then someone can probably tell you what is available and where...
richard
excellent Tim! I need to make time for this next week. If anyone gets there before me please post the details here.
transfixer
wtf is happening with chimera synthesis?
very frustrating
Fidgit
transfixer wrote:
wtf is happening with chimera synthesis?
very frustrating


don't worry, there was a major redesign of the units which are planned. however after the new tools and CNC machines have been set-up properly, the shipping will start next week for sure (if you prepay your order in full, of course). lol
Ekofisk
transfixer wrote:
wtf is happening with chimera synthesis?
very frustrating


https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4972&postdays=0&post order=asc&start=0
rob.ocelot
It may also be instructive to do company searches on Ben's other ventures:

Fisher Robotics Ltd.
Zeitx Ltd.

Anyone know of any others?

Edit, found another:

Cine Robotics Ltd.

Interestingly, Fisher Robotics occupied Unit 1 of the same industrial park that Chimera is operating out of (in Unit 8, same as Cine)
rob.ocelot
Chimera Synthesis site update:

*BC-X and SM-16 moved to "history" section. I guess we all collectively blinked because we missed it! woah

*Picture of the BC-X finally released:



*Links to forum removed. Forum is still dead, and looks to stay that way. Dead Banana



Ok, in all seriousness has anyone heard from Ben in the last week?
dalasv
I've asked for a refund. Hoping for the best.
Fidgit
welcome to the club... lol

refunds are not exactly ben fishers forte.
richard
what is his forte exactly?
Fidgit
richard wrote:
what is his forte exactly?


hihi

applause
Tim Stinchcombe
richard wrote:
what is his forte exactly?
The way he is going, that'll probably be 'UB forte'!! Mr. Green
RoyNeary
Well, in the next few days I'll find out if Ben has received my court documents from MCOL and has chosen to respond before a judgement can be made against him/Chimera. I'm not sure how this goes if using the last known trading address means the company can't be reached because it has moved elsewhere.
greenslime
have held back from posting in this thread to not add fuel to the fire, but in the hopes of seeing this come to an end. here is a response i received from ben.

"No, not history. I'm just in the middle of updating sites and a bunch of other stuff.  bCX's shipping this month.

best,

B"
opsysbug
Prob'ly those BCX's will be shipping toward "the end" of this month... d'oh!
nlaudadio
I ordered a b16 months and months and months and months ago.
seriously, i just don't get it
richard
I think I'm waiting 25 months for the BCX

I think he said it was nearly finished and would be available at the end of the month then too
Fidgit
don't worry, my stuff is available "the next week" for about 3 years now...
nlaudadio
According to emails, mine first 'shipped' in April of 2010. I like to imagine that it is helping keep sane some poor castaway from a low-rent trans-atlantic shipping line.
RoyNeary
nlaudadio wrote:
According to emails, mine first 'shipped' in April of 2010. I like to imagine that it is helping keep sane some poor castaway from a low-rent trans-atlantic shipping line.


Wow. At least I can say, of all the broken promises and vagaries sent my way, that I never got a false shipping notice.
Maldoror
For what it's worth, I ordered a BC8 Mk 2 in early April, and received it today.
Umcorps
Maldoror?

As of Le Chants de Maldoror?

"A figure of absolute evil who is opposed to God and humanity, and has renounced conventional morality and decency."

You flatter yourself, Ben hihi
Reality Checkpoint
Perhaps it should have been Malodour, as everything to do with this company leaves a bad smell.
OculoRapido
OK, so Opsysbug urged me to chime in ;-)

I suppose it would only make the hydrogen sulfide odo(u)r stronger, but Maldoror didn't make clear whether he ordered his "bait switcher" bc8 from dear Ben's site or from one of the willing commercial distributors Ben gifted with product (while he continued to stiff paid back orders from previous years).

So I think it's about time for someone to write in how cool the bc? sounds (whether or not the LEDs are shut off to suppress noise OR the miserable audio out amp is bypassed)... I will try to pretend I've been chastised for bad manners.

Sorry Brian, I can't resist:

All you familiar, long-suffering Chimera victims are STILL expecting gear delivery on multi deca-months backorders?

WTF?

Tell me at least no one's still holding out for an aluminum body bc16...

And what about those commercial distributors who were offering bc?s?

Hmm?

Now lessee. If you got to work on a bcx refund, would you have enough to pay for a Korg Monotribe? Which might occur first: A refund being paid or the Monotribe hitting the streeet?

Like watching a car crash in slow motion, over and over and over and over....

['DB] (2 x bc? survivor)
danox574
I bought a BC9 in stock at Noisebug some months ago (and a BC6 Walnut directly from Chimera). I did get them both. This BC9 may have been gifted to them? For what purpose?
richard
Maldoror wrote:
For what it's worth, I ordered a BC8 Mk 2 in early April, and received it today.


Hi Ben! hihi

and I'm afraid it isn't worth a fuck, even if it is true, and even if you aren't Ben
opsysbug
lol all i can do is laugh.
Imagine if that WAS Ben? How fucking last ditch lame would that be!
He does say shit like "for what it's worth" a lot right?
The only thing you ALL should be talking about is how to join forces that case
against Mr. Stinky and smoke his ass for good!!
Anybody "waiting" for anything at this point...well...even the Synthi came out first!

"BCX" can you imagine! It almost just appeared from so many people trying
to wish for it. Almost...
I'm thinking of selling my BC16 just to get the stink out of the house! Dead Banana Bad Karma.
richard
sell that shit

I won't be selling my BC9 in a hurry though smile
Maldoror
Umcorps wrote:
Maldoror?

As of Le Chants de Maldoror?

"A figure of absolute evil who is opposed to God and humanity, and has renounced conventional morality and decency."

You flatter yourself, Ben hihi


Yes, as in Le Chants de Maldoror.

But sorry to disappoint you, it's a user name I've had online in various guises for the last five years or more... and I'm not Ben, not connected to Chimera other than by buying the item in question. It took about a month to arrive, I received it, and I thought I'd let people in this thread know that some stuff *is* being shipped.

Obviously some people are having some serious delays with what they've ordered. I was lucky enough not to, and I hope everyone gets what they paid for soon.
Maldoror
richard wrote:
Maldoror wrote:
For what it's worth, I ordered a BC8 Mk 2 in early April, and received it today.


Hi Ben! hihi

and I'm afraid it isn't worth a fuck, even if it is true, and even if you aren't Ben


Hi there. Nope, I'm not Ben, it is true, and like I said in another post, I just thought I'd let people on this thread know that stuff is being shipped out from Chimera. Hopefully more than just one synth too for all you who have been waiting what seems like an over-long amount of time for something you've ordered and paid for.
Maldoror
OculoRapido wrote:
OK, so Opsysbug urged me to chime in ;-)

I suppose it would only make the hydrogen sulfide odo(u)r stronger, but Maldoror didn't make clear whether he ordered his "bait switcher" bc8 from dear Ben's site or from one of the willing commercial distributors Ben gifted with product (while he continued to stiff paid back orders from previous years).


I ordered the BC8 Mk2 directly from the Chimera website. It was only after I did that I found this forum... which got me more than a bit worried that it might never arrive. So I joined the board to a) join in the general discussion etc and b) let you all know that there is at least some activity from Chimera and that it does really exist.
Maldoror
opsysbug wrote:

He does say shit like "for what it's worth" a lot right?


So do I - for what it's worth Mr. Green
construct09
eek! 1 post will suffice
Maldoror
construct09 wrote:
eek! 1 post will suffice


Sorry - good point.
opsysbug
Welcome then "old stinky" to the Muff wiggler forum. We are a great source
of fun and information and if you hang out here you will see that your
wallet is always empty. We can be really cool guys but as you can see if you mess with us we can also be crying little girl bitches or giant black demons
who will hunt you down and kill you. And you can also see from this thread
that Ben has been messing with a lot of people for a long time.
BC8 was never the problem except for the bad smell that it will fill your home with. I have two and have to keep them in 3x plastic bags because the Karma they have on them smells like a dogs ass. lol
Ben has almost always been able to ship those on time and will actually
hold that up as an example. There's just...a lot of other stuff....
But anyway. If your not Ben welcome. If you are you'd better keep pretending you are not because the police are coming soon. Dead Banana
richard
yes, welcome. No harm done either way. It is intersting he's still selling something
reignbear
danox574 wrote:
I bought a BC9 in stock at Noisebug some months ago (and a BC6 Walnut directly from Chimera). I did get them both. This BC9 may have been gifted to them? For what purpose?

i think that may have been my bc9 that i traded back to them seriously, i just don't get it
rob.ocelot
richard wrote:
yes, welcome. No harm done either way. It is intersting he's still selling something


He's always been able to churn out BC-8's and the BC-6's and ship them fast as far as i can tell. I've never heard any complaints of BC-8's taking months to be delivered. It's everything else that seems to be in this constant state of redesign hell.

Maldoror, do you still have your package/box your BC-8 MK2 came in and can you see a postmark on it? You mentioned you ordered it in early April -- Ben had his little freak out on the forum around 1PM GMT April 16th, after which he took down the forum and he's been pretty quiet since. Your BC-8 possibly could have been in the mail before that point.

What I'd like to find out is if he's shipped anything after that date. A few people are now taking legal action to get their refunds so I'm curious to see how this bodes for the rest of us waiting for product.
Umcorps
Maldoror wrote:


But sorry to disappoint you, it's a user name I've had online in various guises for the last five years or more... and I'm not Ben


I apologise. Calling someone a "Ben Fisher" is very insulting. I'm normally more polite than that.

In my defence, seeing an alls well kind of post from a 1st post Wiggler in a 30 odd page thread about the trauma that is Chimera Synthesis is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect from BF. It's even the kind of user name I'd expect him to be attracted to. Although, to misquote Brian's mum, he's not Maldoror, he's just a very naughty boy.

Anyway. Introductions over. Welcome to Muff's. w00t
Maldoror
Maldoror

Ben:
Quote:
Maldoror, do you still have your package/box your BC-8 MK2 came in and can you see a postmark on it? You mentioned you ordered it in early April -- Ben had his little freak out on the forum around 1PM GMT April 16th, after which he took down the forum and he's been pretty quiet since. Your BC-8 possibly could have been in the mail before that point.


It was sent signed-for and arrived the next day a couple of days ago, so it was definitely sent recently.

Umcorps wrote:
Quote:
In my defence, seeing an alls well kind of post from a 1st post Wiggler in a 30 odd page thread about the trauma that is Chimera Synthesis is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect from BF. It's even the kind of user name I'd expect him to be attracted to. Although, to misquote Brian's mum, he's not Maldoror, he's just a very naughty boy.

Anyway. Introductions over. Welcome to Muff's. w00t


Yeah, I can see why that would have been a bit suspicious now I think about it.

thanks for the welcome, folks. I've not yet dipped my toes into proper modular synths... that's something I've yet to get into, hence coming to join the forum here to get some grounding in the subject.
RoyNeary
rob.ocelot wrote:
He's always been able to churn out BC-8's and the BC-6's and ship them fast as far as i can tell. I've never heard any complaints of BC-8's taking months to be delivered.


Mine took five months ...
RoyNeary
Maldoror wrote:

It was sent signed-for and arrived the next day a couple of days ago, so it was definitely sent recently.


Welcome Maldoror -- there wasn't a return address on your package was there? Some of us are wondering exactly what the accurate current address of the business is. Thanks.
richard
excellent question!
opsysbug
RoyNeary wrote:
rob.ocelot wrote:
He's always been able to churn out BC-8's and the BC-6's and ship them fast as far as i can tell. I've never heard any complaints of BC-8's taking months to be delivered.


Mine took five months ...


Damn lol
nlaudadio
The thing is, after all this ridiculousness, I still just want the effing synth.
I mean heck, how could you not love a synth that looks like a toilet cake?
Maldoror
[quote="RoyNeary"]
Maldoror wrote:

there wasn't a return address on your package was there? Some of us are wondering exactly what the accurate current address of the business is. Thanks.


No return address... I'll look and see if I can find the invoice.
RoyNeary
Umcorps wrote:
Chimera Synthesis wrote:

Every bC16 back-order customer has been written to with an apology and their position in the production queue.


I'm guessing that must have happend sometime after I asked, politely, for a refund on my BC16 order and, after you ignored my mails and I went to law you finally sent me my refund timed to arrive by recorded delivery on the very latest day possible before I could apply for a judgement against you?


I came back to this post because that day is arriving for me, some time this week -- I think Friday or Saturday. Quite honestly if I see my money in that way, I'll take it!
RoyNeary
Taken from the front page of the Chimera site today:

"Chimera Synthesis Ltd:
Sadly, due to a number of events over the last year, the Directors have decided that Chimera Synthesis Ltd will closedown.

Existing Orders:
By arrangement with Ben Fisher, outstanding existing orders will be fulfilled over the next short while. You will be written to about this very shortly if you have an outstanding order.

Refund/Cancelled Orders:
Chimera Synthesis Ltd will write to you in the near future regarding any refund/cancellation request.

Warranty:
By arrangement with Ben Fisher, existing warranties will be honoured. Please contact fisher.benc@gmail.com if you have a warranty issue.

The Future:
Please email Ben Fisher directly fisher.benc@gmail.com about the availability of bC/SM synthesizers and sequencers."
Nuuj
I love how he tries to claim to be more than a one man operation.
Directors indeed.

Good luck to everyone in getting money or gear out of Ben.
rob.ocelot
Well, we all knew this was coming.

However, to me it looks like only the CHIMERA name is kaput (too many bad associations, etc).

Ben is essentially saying that he's still going to be making BC-16's and the like... they just wont be CHIMERA BC-16's.

This is no different than when he changed names from Zeitx to Fisher Robotics yet still continued to sell the same steadycam products.

This shit is entirely his M.O.

One has to wonder if this name change is a way to dodge legal action. I'm sorry, but promises to fulfill orders 'shortly' are going to fall on deaf ears. Remember, that he's used people's money to buy all that fancy equipment.
richard
So is this just a move to avoid giving refunds? Surely just changing the name of the company and telling your old customers to fuck off would be illegal in the UK?
tIB
Im no legal expert but Id have thought folding the company would mean stripping it of all assets: no more fancy equipment. I suppose it all depends on whether he has gone for insolvency, receivership or has changed names to avoid all that and go missing.
Tim Stinchcombe
My understanding is that the 'limited' in 'limited company' refers to 'limited liability', in that if the company goes down the tubes, the 'officers' of the company (not sure if that's the right term, but basically who owns it, the director and/or secretary) literally have limited liability towards any creditors. This from Wikipedia kind of reinforces this view:
Quote:
"Limited by shares" means that the company has shareholders, and that the liability of the shareholders to creditors of the company is limited to the capital originally invested, i.e. the nominal value of the shares and any premium paid in return for the issue of the shares by the company. A shareholder's personal assets are thereby protected in the event of the company's insolvency, but money invested in the company will be lost.
Thus it seems using a ltd co is a way of (perhaps, I'm no legal expert) protecting yourself from things like losing your house etc., if the company runs up big debts.

I have no idea what this might mean to people who are still owed goods/money by Chimera - anyone who does should seek proper, appropriate advice, like Consumer Direct (or whatever the old citizens advice bureau is calling itself these days), or local trading standards to see what course of action is open to them (? small claims court etc).
construct09
so what happened with your claim Royneary? You were supposed to hear something soon?
dalasv
Yikes, hope I get my refund.
richard
but closing down and going bankrupt are not the same thing. We don't really know which he is doing?

Either way he'll no doubt be running a similarly creative/hopeless operation with in a few months, probably registered in the name of his cat. Difficult to avoid the conclusion that he really willfully threw this business away, it seemed to have huge potential.

File next to Grenader/Randal I guess
Ekofisk
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
My understanding is that the 'limited' in 'limited company' refers to 'limited liability', in that if the company goes down the tubes, the 'officers' of the company (not sure if that's the right term, but basically who owns it, the director and/or secretary) literally have limited liability towards any creditors. This from Wikipedia kind of reinforces this view:
Quote:
"Limited by shares" means that the company has shareholders, and that the liability of the shareholders to creditors of the company is limited to the capital originally invested, i.e. the nominal value of the shares and any premium paid in return for the issue of the shares by the company. A shareholder's personal assets are thereby protected in the event of the company's insolvency, but money invested in the company will be lost.
Thus it seems using a ltd co is a way of (perhaps, I'm no legal expert) protecting yourself from things like losing your house etc., if the company runs up big debts.

I have no idea what this might mean to people who are still owed goods/money by Chimera - anyone who does should seek proper, appropriate advice, like Consumer Direct (or whatever the old citizens advice bureau is calling itself these days), or local trading standards to see what course of action is open to them (? small claims court etc).


A limited company is indeed a way to avoid losing your house. One of the main reasons for creating one is to accept only a very limited personal responsibility. The company becomes a seperate legal entity and is in itself responsible debts etc in case of bankruptcy..
Usually this results in that those with any pledge/security will get theirs first. This will typically be the bank or other financial institution. Seizing and selling any building, equipment, or whatever of value to cover their loans/losses first. For the customer this is bad news. Whatever is left after everyone with security get theirs, get divided between the rest of the creditors (i.e. customers). Usually there is nothing or little left to divide (typically there will not be enough value in the company to cover the secured debts, because if there was, the company probably wouldn't be in this situation in the first place).This results in the customer having a worthless claim on a bankrupt company.
If Chimera is a limited company and files for bankruptcy, there is no (legal) reason to go after Ben Fisher personally.
richard
watch this space i guess

www.ben-fisher.co.uk
dan_p
Your customers may be farked if you are limited but I think if there are any Bank debts then the Directors would of had to put themselves up as liable for it. You would never get a loan as a Ltd company unless you did this (or you were pretty big and successful). The business loan, overdraft etc would all of been secured on any asset the Director owned.
RoyNeary
construct09 wrote:
so what happened with your claim Royneary? You were supposed to hear something soon?


My claim went through and the deadline passed for a response. The online system shows that no response was made. Hence, it was possible to request a "judgment in default" which I did. This supposedly leads to the courts sending a document demanding payment which should have happened as of 12th May.

In summary, this means there is a CCJ (county court judgment) against Chimera. This doesn't mean a lot if he chooses to ignore it, but it will (unless it is settled within a month) stay on the record for six years.

There are options to take things further through the online system, which I'm considering.
Maldoror
Good luck to everyone who's owed synths and/or money by Chimera.
nlaudadio
Chimera Shuts Down:
http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2011/05/chimera-shuts-down.html
rob.ocelot
Anyone receive an email from Ben?
science
I heard he's working on the finishing touches for the e-mail. You'll have tracking information next week.
Fidgit
science wrote:
I heard he's working on the finishing touches for the e-mail. You'll have tracking information next week.


thumbs up

applause
transfixer
this is what i got:
"there's an email update this week, will explain delays etc, and you will see product soon, quite a few changes...!"

(that was on may the 11th)

still waiting for that email...

hmmm.....
RoyNeary
If anyone knows the new address for Chimera, please publish it here.
transfixer
now chimerasynthesis.com is dead too!

very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
rob.ocelot
Shit, I knew something like this would happen.

Thank <higher power of your choice> that I pulled every document I could off the Chimera web page before he pulled the plug. The BC-8 and 16 are damn near incomprehensible without the (incomplete) manuals.

Way to go, Ben. Thanks for throwing your users under the bus! Dead Banana MY ASS IS BLEEDING

edit: false alarm, transfixer chimera-synthesis.com is still up (note the dash) LOL

Still, I just about pissed my pants when I read the website was down. Can you blame me? We have had ZERO communication from Ben in more than a month. hmmm.....
tIB
I have the site up here? hmmm.....
hellohihowareyou
Chimera was a joke. Ben is a joke. I sent him money for a bcx years ago now and every few months I would send him an email and he would tell me that is was about to ship. I even received a shipping notice for it, and of course it never came.

After hearing about the closing of the business I emailed him to inquire about what would happen with my order and he quickly responded to tell me that he was going to send it within a week. Of course, no bcx has arrived.

I'm going to be taking a couple weeks (possibly more) to drive around England and consider it as a place to live. I'd really like to swing by and personally tell him to fuck himself.
darenager
^ I emailed him Monday and said I'd like either a refund, goods to the value, or my bCx by Friday 10th June, I wasn't aggressive or abusive, I just said that if none of the above happend then I would come down and talk to him face to face as I find that more effective than endless emails. I also said that if that was necessary then I would be looking to recoup travel expenses and loss of earnings.

His first email was a bit defensive, saying he did not appreciate threats, then a little while later he emailed me again, anyway we agreed that 2x bC6 would be an adequate alternative, and these were delivered yesterday, he sent me the Walnut versions £79 each, so slightly more than what I paid for the bCx.

I actually prefer the bC6 to the BC16 I had, less features but much easier and more fun to use and seems to sound better too. Apparently they are partly based on the bCx - less the filter, step sequencer, midi - none of which I really needed anymore so for me it was an ok outcome and preferable to a refund. They have a little button so they can be triggered live, or drone etc, I will use them for live stuff with the OP-1, Leploop, tenori on, ipad, kp3, monotron, monotribe, and later a portable Bugbrand system - not necessarily all at once though.

The bC6's he sent to me are not by Chimera, it says Ben Fisher on the label.
RoyNeary
darenager wrote:
^ I emailed him Monday and said I'd like either a refund, goods to the value, or my bCx by Friday 10th June, I wasn't aggressive or abusive, I just said that if none of the above happend then I would come down and talk to him face to face as I find that more effective than endless emails. I also said that if that was necessary then I would be looking to recoup travel expenses and loss of earnings.

His first email was a bit defensive, saying he did not appreciate threats, then a little while later he emailed me again, anyway we agreed that 2x bC6 would be an adequate alternative, and these were delivered yesterday, he sent me the Walnut versions £79 each, so slightly more than what I paid for the bCx.

I actually prefer the bC6 to the BC16 I had, less features but much easier and more fun to use and seems to sound better too. Apparently they are partly based on the bCx - less the filter, step sequencer, midi - none of which I really needed anymore so for me it was an ok outcome and preferable to a refund. They have a little button so they can be triggered live, or drone etc, I will use them for live stuff with the OP-1, Leploop, tenori on, ipad, kp3, monotron, monotribe, and later a portable Bugbrand system - not necessarily all at once though.

The bC6's he sent to me are not by Chimera, it says Ben Fisher on the label.


Thanks for posting. Pleased you got a good outcome. I too have always been polite with Ben, so for my own part I am disappointed that he stopped talking to me and forced my hand into pursuing a CCJ. I told him too along the way that I could take products up to the value of what he owes me if that worked for him. Instead, he has ignored me so I've had to pull out a CCJ, express an objection to the strike off at Companies House, and now have no option but to pay for a warrant to send in bailiffs. I even mailed him this week asking for him to get back to me by today with a good faith action and concrete documentation of it. Nothing.
ndkent
I tried to get a bc6 last week instead of the more expensive unit I ordered but he made a lame excuse.

If you are curious he said something about paperwork needed to transfer the order from Chimera but he'd try. I pointed out that my original payment was to Ben Fisher directly, not Chimera. He didn't answer that one.
darenager
From what I can gather he does not seem to respond well to threats, or overly passive approaches, my own situation may have worked because I sure would have gone down there, and I think he knew that.

I really hope that everyone who has paid for a Chimera gets either a refund or alternative product(s) to similar value.
RoyNeary
ndkent wrote:
I tried to get a bc6 last week instead of the more expensive unit I ordered but he made a lame excuse.

If you are curious he said something about paperwork needed to transfer the order from Chimera but he'd try. I pointed out that my original payment was to Ben Fisher directly, not Chimera. He didn't answer that one.


That sounds a bit dubious, because Chimera is still a registered limited company at Companies House and will not be struck off as long as people file objections to it on the grounds that they are creditors. How exactly he can represent that Chimera no longer exists -- legally -- I am not sure, but I think he can't.
tIB
yo ager, if you ever get shot of one of the 6s hit I up!
darenager
First dibs for Mr tibbs hihi
construct09
darenager wrote:
From what I can gather he does not seem to respond well to threats, or overly passive approaches, my own situation may have worked because I sure would have gone down there, and I think he knew that.

I really hope that everyone who has paid for a Chimera gets either a refund or alternative product(s) to similar value.
gone down where exactly???
opsysbug
darenager wrote:
^ I emailed him Monday and said I'd like either a refund, goods to the value, or my bCx by Friday 10th June, I wasn't aggressive or abusive, I just said that if none of the above happend then I would come down and talk to him face to face as I find that more effective than endless emails. I also said that if that was necessary then I would be looking to recoup travel expenses and loss of earnings.

His first email was a bit defensive, saying he did not appreciate threats, then a little while later he emailed me again, anyway we agreed that 2x bC6 would be an adequate alternative, and these were delivered yesterday, he sent me the Walnut versions £79 each, so slightly more than what I paid for the bCx.

I actually prefer the bC6 to the BC16 I had, less features but much easier and more fun to use and seems to sound better too. Apparently they are partly based on the bCx - less the filter, step sequencer, midi - none of which I really needed anymore so for me it was an ok outcome and preferable to a refund. They have a little button so they can be triggered live, or drone etc, I will use them for live stuff with the OP-1, Leploop, tenori on, ipad, kp3, monotron, monotribe, and later a portable Bugbrand system - not necessarily all at once though.

The bC6's he sent to me are not by Chimera, it says Ben Fisher on the label.


applause Good for you!
asterisk
i guess i was one of the lucky ones to get a BC16 years ago when they first came out. i had to wait a year for it, but it was worth it.
i had an order in for the Chimera Sequencer for awhile, but when i realized i was never going to get it (and he kept changing the design / product). i had to pull teeth to get my refund, but i eventually did. but this was still a couple of years ago.

chimera going under doesnt surprise me at all.
terribly run company, full of empty promises.
3vcos
It's a damn Shame. I think they were fun little Synths. He's certainly capable of making unique instruments.
richard
I think he needs to radically adjust his genius:asshole ratio
BugBrand
Ben is selling BC6s still with apparently quick turnaround (batch of 20 made recently)- but they're being sold as Ben Fisher instruments rather than Chimera. Quick response to emails and quick provision of google-invoice.

Interestingly, his quoted address is the unit next door to where Chimera LTD was registered. Phone number is also the same, but does not work:

BEN FISHER
9 BROOKHOUSE BUSINESS PARK BRUNEL ROAD
IPSWICH, SUFFOLK IP2 0EF
United Kingdom
01473 289004
fisher.benc@googlemail.com

For postal address he quoted C/O 9 Brookhouse - suggesting that he is possibly not based there but can collect mail from there.
lionelfischer
I got my bc16 after nearly 3 years of waiting
transfixer
did anyone got the bc16 mk2?
very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
RoyNeary
lionelfischer wrote:
I got my bc16 after nearly 3 years of waiting


Recently?
construct09
Thanks for the heads up Tom....
fowl
Can anyone suggest the best approach to either receiving a SM16 or getting a refund - I've tried to be polite - and now just getting rubbered.

I actually believe that no one has received a Sm16 ?- can anyone confirm/contradict this? And that he may - at one point get it finished- but i am now concerned that if he has declared bankrupcy - he will be able to legally clear the state/debitors and then continue with a new business name and my money/goods will be down the drain.

Thanks for your advice on my predicament..
rob.ocelot
fowl, I've only seen pictures/mockups of the SM-16.

No music blogs have reported one and Ben typically sends units to them first to drum up some free publicity. This happened with the BC-16 and BC-8.

As for getting your money or product from him you have half the battle won at least being on the same landmass as he is. hihi

I suspect many a UK'er may be paying Ben a visit in person.
Fnord
rob.ocelot wrote:

I suspect many a UK'er may be paying Ben a visit in person.



I hope so.

I don't have a personal stake in this, but some of my friends have had bas expeirences, and I'd like to see him punished to the fullest extent of the law.
RoyNeary
fowl wrote:
Can anyone suggest the best approach to either receiving a SM16 or getting a refund - I've tried to be polite - and now just getting rubbered.


I've taken legal action against Chimera using the Money Claim Online system. Another board member actually got his money back this way, but I haven't -- I've been surprised how far it has gone without him making any kind of response. There's now a county court judgment against Chimera as a result of this. I've received no response from Ben at any time in this process despite my keeping him up to date with what's going on and offering to negotiate.

So I can't necessarily recommend the legal process at this point -- you could be throwing good money after bad. It costs a hundred pounds to send bailiffs around, after you've paid for the county court judgment process as well. There is no guarantee you'll get any of the money back even if you do that.

As far as "the extent of the law" goes, well, getting a CCJ and a warrant of execution (a.k.a. sending in bailiffs) is about as far as you can go. Right now I think a CCJ might reduce his chances of raising new business capital but apart from that, you'd be surprised -- the law don't go charging in on their white horses to wrong rights on this kind of stuff. Savvy small businesses can pretty much get away with ignoring CCJs when they have their backs to the wall, if what I've read is to be believed.
dalasv
That sounds similar to the U.S. small claims system. From what I understand, it's very difficult to actually make someone pay.
Fidgit
UK ppl may proceed according to the "Distant Selling Regulations" or the "Consumer Protection (Distance Selling)"

http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/distance-sellin g-regulations/
fowl
i would not go down the Bailiff route - but I think he needs to offer some compensation to his old customers - instead of taking on new ones.
fowl
BugBrand wrote:

01473 289004
fisher.benc@googlemail.com


that number is dead by the way...
RoyNeary
Fidgit wrote:
UK ppl may proceed according to the "Distant Selling Regulations" or the "Consumer Protection (Distance Selling)"

http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/distance-sellin g-regulations/


Have you used this method and can you vouch for it? It sounds like it would not bring about any actual payment to me.
Fidgit
no, i'm a non-UK alien smile so i can't use it.
tIB
Since the manual is unfinished and the forum has been removed Ill ask here: Can I patch the envelope on the BC16 as an envelope follower?
hellohihowareyou
Reason the forum was removed?

Because it was predominantly people complaining about not being able to receive refunds or instruments.

He was also in the bad habit of deleting posts of people posting their negative experiences.
RoyNeary
tIB wrote:
Since the manual is unfinished and the forum has been removed Ill ask here: Can I patch the envelope on the BC16 as an envelope follower?


I'd like to answer this question but can't since I don't have the bC16 I paid for in February 2009!

So has anyone received the promised e-mail about backorders or promised contact about refunds?
ndkent
BC16 envelope follower?
An envelope follower needs VC inputs of an envelope to be one or of course some sort of dedicated input. I think you have only standard knobs on the stages, right? You can twist the knobs via MIDI CC# but that doesn't help you follow an envelope. Or did you read reference to an envelope follower somewhere (and I totally missed it).
tIB
^ thanks for that, I assumed not but since I needed one I thought Id ask anyway.
opsysbug
RoyNeary wrote:

So has anyone received the promised e-mail about backorders or promised contact about refunds?


"Early next week" for sure!
dalasv
He replied to me once and said he would email more later, but now he's not responding to my emails.
RoyNeary
dalasv wrote:
He replied to me once and said he would email more later, but now he's not responding to my emails.


Nor mine.

I'd like to see him post here and explain in what legal sense he has closed the company. My suspicion is that he hasn't, and can't.
transfixer
no fucking news?????
very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
Nuuj
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-fisher/11/620/653

For some reason LinkedIn just listed this Ben Fisher as someone I might know, even though we have no connections in common. Hmmm.
dalasv
Any British folks feel like giving it a ring?

Cellular Asset Management Ltd
Melita House
124 Bridge Road
Chertsey
Surrey
KT16 8LA
United Kingdom

Tel. +44 (0)1932 563737
Umcorps
Nuuj wrote:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-fisher/11/620/653

For some reason LinkedIn just listed this Ben Fisher as someone I might know, even though we have no connections in common. Hmmm.


I think thats A Ben Fisher, not THE Ben Fisher.

It's weird that Linkedin fed that to you unprompted, but Chertsey is a long way from Ipswich. Would take about 6 hours for the round trip at peak times. If he was doing that sort of commute he wouldn't have the time or energy to defraud people.
RoyNeary
Umcorps wrote:
I think thats A Ben Fisher, not THE Ben Fisher.

It's weird that Linkedin fed that to you unprompted, but Chertsey is a long way from Ipswich. Would take about 6 hours for the round trip at peak times. If he was doing that sort of commute he wouldn't have the time or energy to defraud people.


I have reason to believe the Unit 9 address above (still in Ipswich) is correct. I'm not sure I can go into specifics but I've had contact with another claimant who is certain of it.
Nuuj
Yeah I'd guess it was a coincidence.
This Ben Fisher has no connections in common, is not in a similar industry and is not in any of the same LinkedIn groups as me.
Perhaps the Chimera Ben Fisher is telecommuting and working a day job?
talkboxert
No email here as well... the last one was the announcement he went out of bussiness and that We'd here from him soon. Still hoping but I'm afraid we never will. Weird he's started a new bussiness though, that still gives some hope but also takes the piss out of everyone waiting......
fowl
NO ETA. But said to me he would honour ALL unfulfilled orders and to watch out for a new website - Ben Fisher.
richard
yeah, I believe I posted a link to that site weeks ago, but last time I looked nothing had happened,

I really hope he comes good, he needs to, for everyone he owes synths too... and for Ben's karma
rob.ocelot
If he doesn't make this right then he's basically fucked himself with the synth community. Lots of long memories here both with collectors and musicians. Ducking away in the night and setting up shop under a different name wont take away the stink.

Then again, he might just jump into some other field and start all over again.

There was the robotics business, and the steady cam/film business...
RoyNeary
It would be useful community documentation if people were willing to record in this thread what they paid for that they haven't received, and when they paid for it. This information would help spread the word about these practices and possibly protect any other niche communities coming next, even if it does us no good ourselves. Perhaps it would also be evidence that could corroborate any complaints made to trading standards organisations.

I know there is an old thread on Matrixsynth where the owner of that blog justified continuing documentation of Chimera in part because he or she could find no evidence of a mass of outstanding orders. This was, I think, before Ben documented the number of outstanding orders on his forum, but since that is down, it's unavailable now and, reasonably from his point of view, would be out of date.

So: Chimera owes me a bC16 and an SM-16 both ordered and paid for in advance in 2009.
rob.ocelot
I'm owed a BC-X and an SM-16 paid for in 2009.

I was totally shocked by how Matrixsynth acted but I definitely understand their need to have a neutral stance from a legal point of view.

Check out the BC-16 entry on Vintagesynth, there's people complaining there about not receiving product and there's someone there countering those posts with "Chimera is great, you are all just griefing on Ben's business". seriously, i just don't get it

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/bc16.php

What I don't understand are the people who chime in (here and at vintagesynth and matrixsynth) with "Well I got my stuff from him so it must be that YOU'RE the problem for not getting your stuff". What kind of goofy logic is that? d'oh!
richard
I am waiting for BCX paid for in 1009 too.
rob.ocelot
We should start a tally (maybe as a sticky) of which units and how many are outstanding.

BC-16: 1
SM-16: 2
BC-X:2


So far as we know no SM-16's or BC-X's have been reported (no youtube vidoes, blog entries, reviews). Same for the aluminum body BC-16's. Anyone actually have a BC-16 MK2?

BC-6's, BC-8 Mark I and Mark II seem to ship quickly (if he's still making them). BC-9 and SM-9 are no longer in production (so far as we know)

Is anyone realistically expecting the 303 clone to ever materialize?
opsysbug
rob.ocelot wrote:


Is anyone realistically expecting the 303 clone to ever materialize?


That you should actually ASK that question after all this... hmmm..... lol
rob.ocelot
opsysbug wrote:
rob.ocelot wrote:


Is anyone realistically expecting the 303 clone to ever materialize?


That you should actually ASK that question after all this... hmmm..... lol


Just being thorough. It's hard to keep track of what he's promised. hihi
construct09
roy neary has made a great suggestion.

we should document how many units have not been received (well, here anyway)
No-one else will......

1 BC-16 , 213GBP ...1 SM-16 , 265GBP
ndkent
the SM-9 was never past prototype so one couldn't say they are out of production, though strangely he stopped taking pre-orders... but that was after he took mine.

Some months back he was actually selling the bc-6, right? I said you have my sm9 money send me a bc6 since you have some and you can hang on to the difference as credit and I'll buy the sm9 when you are ready. he says the sm9 will be ready in 2 weeks. I say great sell me a bc6 now with the money I sent. he said he'll have a delay transferring money from chimera to Ben fisher instruments. I answer great you won't have a delay , I previously paid him not chimera. he didn't answer that last one.

didn't receive anything
dalasv
I'm still waiting for a bCX I ordered when it was announced. (or, preferably, a refund)
Starrefision
well then,
my chimera (bc-8 bought used) lasted about 1 month and now the volume has dropped out,
it still works sorta with some extra amplification,
but is near inaudible with headphones,
whereas it used to be loud and clear.
i fear sending it ben for not getting it back after reading some of your guys dilemmas with chimera shipping - and or non-response.
and no it is not the batteries.
anyone else have this low volume issue ?

his response to the issue was this :
sorry to hear of your difficulties. The bC8 has been very reliable, and it's normally low-battery or people using a mono-jack in the stereo socket.
The DSP drives the DAC (8 pin SOIC) and this drives the LM4811 headphone amp (10 pin SSOP - be warned it's fiddly!). If you've got audio then it's probably the LM4811.
One complication, the LM4811 has a basic up/down volume control which is jammed to a fixed point by the DSP (all volume is done by the DSP) - if those go o/c then the volume will be low.
coilsandco
I'm still awaiting a BCX (£149) and SM16 (£239)
seth
bC16 ordered 5/2008, received 9/2009
SM16 ordered 5/2008, not yet received

Both were US$269 each, paid to Fisher Robotics.
construct09
the fluctuations in price are astounding eek!
pas
still waiting on 2 bc-16s ordered one year & three months ago...
rastko
I have (of course) never received a:

SM16 payed £265.00 on Oct 13, 2009.

I have tried to get a refund but ...

I survived these types of things in Serbia but Ben has sure got me in his http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

I wish you all (but not Ben F.) a nice day here from Geneva

rastko
rastko
Starrefision wrote:
well then,
my chimera (bc-8 bought used) lasted about 1 month and now the volume has dropped out,
it still works sorta with some extra amplification,
but is near inaudible with headphones,
whereas it used to be loud and clear.
i fear sending it ben for not getting it back after reading some of your guys dilemmas with chimera shipping - and or non-response.
and no it is not the batteries.
anyone else have this low volume issue ?


I had the same issue and have sent it to Ben for reapir.

It took me months and months to get it back and at the end I threatened him that I shall report the loss to my insurance agency. As a theft of course.

As soon as I have written him that the BC8 was back.

Even thinking about this ordeal makes mad.
Needless to say would not send him the unit back for repair if I was you.


ufffffffff grrrrrrrrr

rastko
viilis
Hi, glad I found this forum. It's great someone's keeping track of what Mr Fisher's up to, with the Chimera forum down and BC not replying his emails.

I've been waiting for a bC16 since March 2009 (288€). I later ordered a bC8 mk1, which I received in a couple of weeks, so I know Chimera is not a complete hoax, but things just seem to be going from bad to worse...

I'm not on twitter, but I was wondering if someone could use the Chimera account to inform other dissatisfied customers about this forum? Looks like he has 391 followers. Some of them are bound to have unfulfilled orders.
transfixer
i am expecting a chimera bc16, paid in march 2009. i am supposed to be nr. 36 in ben's cue

very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
Fidgit
it's more than 3 years now since my stuff will ship soon / next week / [insert whatever you want here]
dalasv
I'm waiting on a bCX refund. I managed to get a response from Ben the other day. He said there would be a bCX update "shortly." I'll leave it up to you to interpret what that means based on the past.

He said he would be sharing pictures of the bCX with people who were "under NDA." It's irrelevant to me, since I just want a refund, and I asked him if he could just process my refund.

Haven't heard back.
pas
for those who actually received a refund from chimera ben, how did you go about it?
Cargocult
pas wrote:
for those who actually received a refund from chimera ben, how did you go about it?


In my case I think I got refunded by being a (polite) squeaky wheel; asking questions on his forum, when a new product was reviewed on a music site I'd post about my wait & forum censorship etc.
I contacted Noisebug when Ben supplied them ahead of old paid for orders etc..
I'm sure all this was noticed: The emails below are the result of my posts on Bens forum about supplying resellers ahead of old orders.


(From Ben)
Please don't take this the wrong way (if there is a right way?) - but your last posting on the forum has been deleted and I would like arrange a refund for your bC16. I would like to say that I do this with sadness - but we seem to be unable to please everyone..

regards,

Ben Fisher

------------------------------------------------------------------
to Chimera

show details 25/08/2010

OK Ben

I would like to be refunded however I do think I had a legitimate gripe when I posted my comment..It doesn't look good (or feel good) to have BC16 orders go out to dealers ahead of very old orders.

You should be able understand my upset and irritation when my order is still delayed and I see dealers getting supplied who can not have placed orders preceding my 2 year old one.

Hence the comment on the forum..
Please can you explain why it was deleted? I wasn't using any bad language just expressing justified frustration..

Anyway, please can you promptly refund me for the BC16 and the cable (total of £148.50), thanks


Cargocult

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chimera Synthesis to me

show details 25/08/2010

I get a little p*ssed off with the constant criticism and people trying to tell us how to run CSL, and frankly it's simpler to just cancel/refund orders for anyone feeling 'justified frustration'.

This is a pity as the new stainless backs are in this Friday or Wednesday (depending on the delivery schedule from our laser cutters). [ very frustrating ]

Ben
----------------------------------------------------------
to Chimera

show details 25/08/2010

Ben

I think my two year wait has justified my frustration (and comments) don't you?
After all I was expecting, as advertised by you, to have had it a few weeks (not years) from when you got my money..

Anyway, please proceed with my refund, it should be a quick process..

And one less frustrated punter on your hands!

Cheers
Cargocult
----------------------------------------------------------------

It took a couple of emails & weeks more but a cash-able cheque did arrive woah

Sorry if the reply was a bit long but thought it might be of some interest.
I prob bored him into a refund! lol

All the best to those out of pocket and good luck in the hunt, I really hope you all get some redress from this car-crash of a company/person.
Umcorps
Cargocult wrote:
-----
Chimera Synthesis to me

show details 25/08/2010

I get a little p*ssed off with the constant criticism and people trying to tell us how to run CSL, and frankly it's simpler to just cancel/refund orders for anyone feeling 'justified frustration'.


Poor Ben.

Always the victim sad banana

What a bunch of bastards we are, troubling this tormented genius with our petty concerns about "delivery" and "fairness" and "honouring contractual obligations".

I'm ashamed I tell ya. Ashamed.
Christopher Winkels
What a fud.

Do you know who doesn't get criticized? Someone who delivers goods, as promised and on time.
RoyNeary
Further back in this thread someone said they got theirs by filing a small claim in the U.K. and getting a county court judgment in default. Ben refunded this person just before the judgment would have "stuck"; there is a window where you can avoid this being on your permanent record.

Interesting that even in fairly late 2010 Ben was refunding people (re: Cargocult) without the threat of an imminent legal black mark against his company.

I suspect that he doesn't have the funds any more to do this as he completely ignored me after I moved from requesting a refund to saying that I would use the same online money claim system. The judgment by default happened and is now on the permanent record. I've never been anything but polite to Ben but he failed to refund me after several requests and he has ignored me ever since I mentioned legal action.

One outcome of this is I will never let a situation with a PayPal payment go to 45 days again. I just recently put one of these into dispute and had to apologise to the vendor for appearing aggressive but explained how I'd lost money by not doing so before.
Cargocult
Yup, I think I just got in under the wire..I was on the point of a legal challenge but Ben blinked first.
Sadly I too will now challenge any PayPal transaction approaching the 45 day mark..

I think this has already been noted but the winding up of Chimera Synthesis Ltd has been suspended (due to small claims court claims/CCJ) which may mean creditors have some redress if any assets can be recovered.. but I think that is a very slim chance sadly.
http://ukdata.com/company/06846252/CHIMERA-SYNTHESIS-LIMITED

Just keep an eye out for his new ventures...he is getting a serious backlog of hacked off punters, I spotted his previous failed ventures too late...

On a lighter note..
This video is a good analogue of the (my) Chimera experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmQ5LsNMXZ4
dalasv
Newest update is that Ben told me Chimera Synthesis Ltd is handling the refunds... but hasn't told me what that means for my refund... or who besides himself that would indicate.
hellohihowareyou
I, like another person a few posts back, wrote him a couple weeks ago about either getting the bcX that I ordered a few years ago or a refund. He told me something like "big announcement next week but only people with an NDA can see it now"

Of course, still no info. I wish he would show up on here and completely bury himself like Peter did. That or a proper lynching, god dangit.
pas
thanks for all the comments regarding refunds, i'm trying to figure out what to do, i have two bc16s that i ordered well over a year ago, not as long as some of you, but i feel i'll be like the lot of you in a year or two...it's getting old, sometimes ben responds, sometimes he doesn't...i think i just want to wash my hands of this & get my money back.
aumgn
County court judgements and threats which will effect his credit rating and legally cost him or fine him are the only way.
coilsandco
Found this on another forum...

Hi Guys,

Forget about ever getting your money back, this guy is a fraudster who will steal your money without a second thought. I am chasing him for a business debt and have appointed a legal team to find him. He owes many many thousands of pounds to various indviduals and businesses and they are just the few I know about. I have met him and he one of the most arrogant individuals you will ever come across. He's a very clever guy but also greedy, dishonest and genuinely believes he is made of superior stuff to the rest of us. The net is closing on him and I'll post again when it does.

http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=217635
coilsandco
Has anybody heard anything lately?

Stupid question I guess...

very frustrating
richard
Silence

why don't you come here and explain yourself Ben?
Fidgit
the only "explanations" ben can provide are the lies which he keeps on writing to people for years...

maybe he became sick of his own lies now and stopped replying to emails. consider your (and my) money stolen... confused
richard
Quote:
consider your (and my) money stolen... confused


unfortunately I do
nlaudadio
richard wrote:
Quote:
consider your (and my) money stolen... confused


unfortunately I do


Yep.
richard
Personally after being a customer from the very beginning of Chimera and buying 4 of his products (3 delivered) am I shocked he won't even reply to my (polite) emails anymore. I'm the kind of repeat customer that you'd think the success of a small business like that could be based on. Not exactly taking the long view is he?

It'll be interesting to see how Ben's next business venture goes, what with leaving so many furious internet literate people without promised goods or refunds without apology and apparently without qualm either.
Fidgit
richard wrote:
Personally after being a customer from the very beginning of Chimera and buying 4 of his products (3 delivered) am I shocked he won't even reply to my (polite) emails anymore.


exactly the same here. 3 delivered, then lied to, then refund promised, endless lies again, now ignored and ripped off.

enjoy your karma, ben. it will take care of yourself. thumbs up
BugBrand
Try getting an 'unknown' friend to contact him asking about purchasing one of the BC8s (I think that's the one - the ones he's now making under the Ben Fischer name) - I bet he'd be in touch very quickly.

Utter C***
coilsandco
Yep, he has stolen our money.

He is a lying, thieving arrogant prick.

One day he'll get what's coming to him. I imagine that going through life behaving like that has gained him a fair few enemies over the years, and its only a matter of time before he ends up crossing the wrong person.
aumgn
did anyone in the uk try legal methods ? trading standards ?
RoyNeary
aumgn wrote:
did anyone in the uk try legal methods ? trading standards ?


I don't know if anyone has reported their experiences to a trading standards body, but I did go through the Money Claim Online process.

It didn't work for me, because companies are free to ignore the courts without any comeback -- believe it or not.

Someone tried the same thing earlier than I did and it worked for them.
Most probably because at the time Ben still had some money coming in.
jjsynth
Well Ben owes me a SM-9 and a SM-16. I've lost any confidence that I will ever get compensated by him for this.
rob.ocelot
coilsandco wrote:
Yep, he has stolen our money.

He is a lying, thieving arrogant prick.

One day he'll get what's coming to him. I imagine that going through life behaving like that has gained him a fair few enemies over the years, and its only a matter of time before he ends up crossing the wrong person.


With all the enemies he's made in the robotics, steadycam/motion control and music industries I guess he'll move onto schoolyard lunch money and baby candy next.

Asswipes like him tend to be the first ones up against the wall in economic hard times.
construct09
My claim was a futile waste of time, because I,m not a U.K. resident...BUT... what is more disheartening is the fact that(apparently)they have had no other complaints or claims regarding Bird Brain.....
Fidgit
construct09 wrote:
My claim was a futile waste of time, because I,m not a U.K. resident...BUT... what is more disheartening is the fact that(apparently)they have had no other complaints or claims regarding Bird Brain.....


ben IS a waste of time anyway.
Cargocult
It looks as if the proposal to strike off Chimera Synthesis Ltd has been reactivated...

See here:[url] http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/chimera-synthesis[/url]
Cargocult
Sorry, the URL should have taken you directly to the Chimera page but it seems you'll need to put it into the search bar for it to come up it..
RoyNeary
construct09 wrote:
My claim was a futile waste of time, because I,m not a U.K. resident...BUT... what is more disheartening is the fact that(apparently)they have had no other complaints or claims regarding Bird Brain.....


What do you mean? Who are the "they" that have had no other complaints?
Certainly Cargocult and I both went through Money Claim Online.
RoyNeary
Cargocult wrote:
Sorry, the URL should have taken you directly to the Chimera page but it seems you'll need to put it into the search bar for it to come up it..


I should point out that the proposal to strike off was first suspended because I wrote to Companies House by e-mail about Chimera. They told me I would need to send in more documentation (which I never did) to keep the proposal to strike off suspended beyond the end of August, IIRC.

You could easily do the same yourself and have it reinstated.

BTW they told me Chimera was being struck off because of not submitting accounts, NOT because Ben tried to have the company struck off. This is a normal procedure for companies that don't submit their accounts, but it doesn't have any consequences for Ben as far as I can tell.
dan_p
^ you could point out to the IR that he has been trading up until recently and the company was not dormant. They may not be so bothered if you say you paid a few years ago but if he hasn't been filing when the company has been active thats a little different.
construct09
RoyNeary wrote:
construct09 wrote:
My claim was a futile waste of time, because I,m not a U.K. resident...BUT... what is more disheartening is the fact that(apparently)they have had no other complaints or claims regarding Bird Brain.....


What do you mean? Who are the "they" that have had no other complaints?
Certainly Cargocult and I both went through Money Claim Online.
This is the response I got from 'Tristram Singh'
senior fair trading officer
Suffolk FS

That should have read

Suffolk TS
RoyNeary
construct09 wrote:
RoyNeary wrote:
construct09 wrote:
My claim was a futile waste of time, because I,m not a U.K. resident...BUT... what is more disheartening is the fact that(apparently)they have had no other complaints or claims regarding Bird Brain.....


What do you mean? Who are the "they" that have had no other complaints?
Certainly Cargocult and I both went through Money Claim Online.
This is the response I got from 'Tristram Singh'
senior fair trading officer
Suffolk FS


Thanks. Did you get in touch by email? I'd be happy to write to them as well.
construct09
Yes Royneary, I was referred to them by 'just answer' an online service.
I think you,d have more success with SUFFOLK TRADING STANDARDS than I did, you being local.
coilsandco
Is it worth informing the Inland Revenue about Chimera?

I'm guessing Ben Fisher hasn't been too hot on declaring all the income he received from his 'customers'

If anyone can make life difficult for BF its the taxman.

Does anyone have any accountancy knowledge in such matters?
digital_steve
Does anyone know if the Chimera SM9 sequencer ever got released?
construct09
never was an sm-9


sorry, getting confused with the sm16...that never was
digital_steve
construct09 wrote:
never was an sm-9


sorry, getting confused with the sm16...that never was


I ... ahh ... err ... hmm

So the SM9 did?
It's on their page, but i take that with a grain of salt.
I'm getting a bc16 second hand and wouldn't mind picking up a SM9 if they're around (second hand of course).
construct09
digital_steve wrote:
construct09 wrote:
never was an sm-9


sorry, getting confused with the sm16...that never was


I ... ahh ... err ... hmm

So the SM9 did?
It's on their page, but i take that with a grain of salt.
I'm getting a bc16 second hand and wouldn't mind picking up a SM9 if they're around (second hand of course).



google razz
digital_steve
I did mate, otherwise i wouldnt be asking
All i come up with is here, the chimera site, youtube and some stuff that is no way related to what i was after
construct09
So now you know they exist....

they have come up for sale here on B/S/T
digital_steve
Cheers mate
reignbear
construct09 wrote:
So now you know they exist....

they have come up for sale here on B/S/T

don't think i've ever seen the sequencer for sale on here, there have been a handful of BC6/8/9/16s sold though.
digital_steve
reignbear wrote:
construct09 wrote:
So now you know they exist....

they have come up for sale here on B/S/T

don't think i've ever seen the sequencer for sale on here, there have been a handful of BC6/8/9/16s sold though.


You're stalking me!
hihi
construct09
Yes....like I said, I,m confused...Perhaps I,m thinking of the bc9
It has been just over 2 years now that myself and others on this thread were burnt by that little prick Ben Fisher
richard
so these moneyclaim online claims actually came through? you got refunded?
construct09
I got fuckall....read the thread
construct09
So who can guess who just contacted me.....

www.ben-fisher.co.uk

Ben, can you please send a refund as requested
I think it would also be appreciated if you would make an appearance here and explain to everyone else what is going on.
digital_steve
Fair enough
I got my BC16 second hand (or fourth hand... whatever) and i really like it.

I've had no dealings with Ben, but i have read through this entire thread. I realise people are really frustrated, upset and angry by their experience... but i'm one of those blokes who likes to judge people on his own terms. Whilst everything presented in this thread is overwhelmingly discouraging, personally i'd be happy to make contact with Ben and buy something as long as it's already made/in stock/whatever. If i get burned then i certainly can't say i wasn't forewarned, but if i get the opportunity to speak with the bloke about his items (i'm not interested in the back story, as it doesn't involve me) then i can make my own judgements.

construct09 wrote:
Yes....like I said, I,m confused...Perhaps I,m thinking of the bc9
It has been just over 2 years now that myself and others on this thread were burnt by that little prick Ben Fisher
richard
construct09 wrote:
I got fuckall....read the thread


thanks. I have, I've been here since the beginning but I haven't memorized all 45 pages razz
richard
construct09 wrote:


I think it would also be appreciated if you would make an appearance here and explain to everyone else what is going on.


it really would Ben... it really would
talkboxert
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44684&
jabeoo1
Trading standards have his details as I have phoned them and he is currently under investigation.
construct09
I trust more of you guys in the U.K will get on to SUFFOLK TRADING STANDARDS???
dalasv
jabeoo1 wrote:
Trading standards have his details as I have phoned them and he is currently under investigation.


His recent email to me did have a "court ordered" feel to it. I don't really want to comment on it until my refund is issued.
RoyNeary
dalasv wrote:
jabeoo1 wrote:
Trading standards have his details as I have phoned them and he is currently under investigation.


His recent email to me did have a "court ordered" feel to it. I don't really want to comment on it until my refund is issued.


I have one too.
richard
RoyNeary wrote:


I have one too.


me too
rob.ocelot
The 'new' SM16 appears to be the SM16R. I've been offered one.

I remain cautiously optimistic. On the plus side Ben is being communicative.
construct09
so.....any pics of the 'new R series'....anywhere?
transfixer
ben just offered me a refund proposition for the unibody bc16 mk II i was waiting for...or some equivalent chimera synthesis stuff. guess what?! i chosed the refund. the deal will be settled "in the next couple of weeks",as usual...
applause applause applause
talkboxert
Got the same email, I was actually thinking of asking the refund but still keep my place in line... After 3 years that doesn't seem too much to ask for...
coilsandco
A bit of a site coming together here

http://ben-fisher.co.uk/

Seems to be limiting himself to BC16, BC8, BCX and SM16
opsysbug
coilsandco wrote:
A bit of a site coming together here

http://ben-fisher.co.uk/

Seems to be limiting himself to BC16, BC8, BCX and SM16


eek!
jabeoo1
Given the history and accounts of customers I am not going to go near the idea of parting with any cash in this direction. As far as I am concerned he can keep these promises of hardware in boxes in his store space. There is a tonne of other stuff out there that does turn up with an element of customer care involved.

New site......wow! I am not sold by a website anyone can do a website.
Umcorps
construct09
Hey Fisher....nice site hyper
richard
well, the BCXr text is quite funny.

it is "tortuous" and it should "haunt" Ben

against my will and good sense, I find an inkling of a sensation that might, one day in the long distinct future, emerge as a very small amount of hope

But it ain't there yet Ben. long way to go - and a lot of debts to be paid
GearHead
Hi, I have an early bc16 that I'm interested in selling if anyone is interested.

My apologies if this is the wrong section.

Thanks
Reality Checkpoint
GearHead wrote:
Hi, I have an early bc16 that I'm interested in selling if anyone is interested.

My apologies if this is the wrong section.

Thanks


Please read this:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34546

99 posts more and bingo!

Welcome btw! thumbs up
theglyph
richard wrote:


against my will and good sense, I find an inkling of a sensation that might, one day in the long distinct future, emerge as a very small amount of hope

But it ain't there yet Ben. long way to go - and a lot of debts to be paid


If anything it certainly is a positive note to see Peter Grenader move himself out of the way somewhat to get the former Plan B modules back into production.

It doesn't look like Ben is bringing anyone else in but maybe he made some notes in his book regarding failed arrogance and design decisions while running a business.
Nuuj
A new website only proves that Ben is trying to get more people to send him money.
aumgn
www.ben-fisher.co.uk

am i the only one who sees that as an arrogant 'fuck you ' to every one of his debts ?
pas
aumgn wrote:
www.ben-fisher.co.uk

am i the only one who sees that as an arrogant 'fuck you ' to every one of his debts ?


i think we're all too disenchanted & bitter at this point to even comment anymore.
aumgn
has the bcrx been made or retailed yet ?
richard
not to my knowledge. I hope not anyway, as i am 2 on the supposed waiting list
rob.ocelot
@richard

Did Ben send you that spec list and pictures of the BC-Xr?

It's interesting, but it's not the BC-X with the Steiner-Parker filter I put my money down on. That said, a MIDI/sync controlled BC-8 with the SM-9's sequencer (with more cross mod capabilities) actually appeals to me.

Edit: forgot to add that it also has patch/sequencer storage and a companion PC program. All good stuff.

Wavering on this. I originally didn't give Ben an answer if I wanted one or a refund. Turns out, mine is 'already in production' and 'should be ready in a few weeks'. hmmm.....

Also interesting now that the old chimera site redirects to his new site. All of the original information/specs on the old site including manuals have evaporated. d'oh!

When Ben announced Chimera was kaput back in May I pulled as much as I could off that site figuring that this material would go missing. Strangely I can find no mentions of the Steiner-Parker filter BC-X and the Internet Archive seems to barf when I tried to search the old Chimera site.
opsysbug
Sure man your BC blah blah blah will be '"ready in a few weeks"
"ready in a few weeks" "ready in a few weeks" "READY IN A FEW WEEKS"

I CAN GIVE YOU A NEW BC SHIT -SHIT -SHIT INSTEAD OF YOUR REFUND "IT WILL BE READY IN A FEW WEEKS" I PUT A MOOGY STEINER PARKER FILTER
ON THE BC ASS-ASS-ASS WITH MY NEW PICK AND PLACE MACHINE IN MY BRAND NEW FACTORY WITH MY BRAND NEW HELPER WIFE PARTNER AND MY NEW WEBSITE AND IT WILL ALL BE "READY IN A FEW WEEKS".

WHY DON'T WE ALL JUST SEND HIM SOME CASH AND I have hope sad banana that we will get something in a few weeks....

by the way when I expressed interest in the BC16R he emailed me back in one day! Said "none were available right now...". So he is present and trying to figure out new ways to get and keep your cash.
rob.ocelot
@opsysbug

1) You paid for a BC-16 and got it. Are you waiting for anything else?

2) Do you still have your BC-16 (or did you sell it)

If your answer to both questions is 'no', then why are you still posting?

It looks to me like you're just coming here to crap the thread and make fun of people who were less fortunate than you in getting their stuff.
richard
I didn't get info from him but then I asked for a refund

I do have a BC9 with a custom made sequencer that is a lot more interesting than the BC8, so...

feel free to PM the stuff though, the amazing thing about the BC8 was the ability to sequence everything onboard. Which, despite everything, still puts the BC8 ahead of just about every hardware synth and module currently available

which is one reason all this is so hair pullingly frustrating. Despite his absolutely appalling record at delivery and customer relationships, the man does have some really good ideas
dalasv
Yeah, seriously. In theory I would take this new thing instead of a refund, but will it ever become a reality?
richard
my post was supposed to be a PM to rob.ocelot, but I'll leave it - doesn't matter much
opsysbug
rob.ocelot wrote:
@opsysbug

1) You paid for a BC-16 and got it. Are you waiting for anything else?
AFTER A YEAR AND A HALF OF LIES AND FALSE PROMISES

2) Do you still have your BC-16 (or did you sell it)
NO-AND GLAD TO HAVE THE BAD KARMA OUT OF THE HOUSE

If your answer to both questions is 'no', then why are you still posting?
THE GUY IS A THIEF AND A CRIMINAL-The people who are doing their best
to stop him at what he is doing get both my sympathy and my respect.

It looks to me like you're just coming here to crap the thread and make fun of people who were less fortunate than you in getting their stuff.


-Please man I've been watching you cry on both the Chimera forum and this forum for almost three years!! Letting that guy lead you on and holding out with your HOPE and your discussion of this gear like it is actually something REAL and that you actually think you have a chance to NEGOTIATE or DEAL with this asshole. Those who didnt get their stuff have all my sympathy as
synth- fever brothers should-there you got me WAY WRONG. I'm not
here to crap on this thread I'm here to SHIT in the mouth of Ben and that
rip off website that he calls a company. Some people don't deserve to be discussed as SYNTHMAKERS when they are NOT . Some people just need (censored).He rips us off because he knows we won't DO IT. And the questions you JUST ASKED ME are the ones that HE ASKED me a while back to get me to SHUT UP. SO SUE his ass or (censored) his (censored) and stop talking about his products like they are REAL>and anyway your BC16R is
"already in production" so let me know when you get it man.
opsysbug
Damn man. Made me mad man. You got me wrong. I feel sorry for the folks
who got burned. Damn. I never get mad here.
rob.ocelot
opsysbug wrote:
-Please man I've been watching you cry on both the Chimera forum and this forum for almost three years!! Letting that guy lead you on and holding out with your HOPE and your discussion of this gear like it is actually something REAL and that you actually think you have a chance to NEGOTIATE or DEAL with this asshole.


I'm trying to get my stuff. You, on the other hand, haven't contributed anything constructive (IMO) to this thread for more than a year other than sarcastic remarks and innuendo. Do you really think you are doing anyone a favor by lowering the signal-to-noise ratio of this discussion?

Quote:
Those who didnt get their stuff have all my sympathy as
synth- fever brothers should-there you got me WAY WRONG. I'm not here to crap on this thread I'm here to SHIT in the mouth of Ben and that rip off website that he calls a company.


Fine, but this isn't Ben's mouth. If you really feel that strongly why don't you create an anti-Ben Fisher anti-Chimera site that competes for search engine screen time on Google? How about something that HELPS people like researching legal avenues for people in the States?

Quote:
Some people don't deserve to be discussed as SYNTHMAKERS when they are NOT .


So you've decided for us that we shouldn't talk about him?

Quote:
And the questions you JUST ASKED ME are the ones that HE ASKED me a while back to get me to SHUT UP. SO SUE his ass or (censored) his (censored) and stop talking about his products like they are REAL.


So you're saying that because I'm not 100% with you in wanting to string him up then I am against you? It sure reads like that to me.

You seem to be lumping me in with the likes of Felixer (remember him?). Next you'll be accusing me of being a shill for Ben.

Take two steps back and look at the big picture. You got your stuff. If you keep this up you are no better than the guy on the Chimera forum who got his refund and then kept coming back to make fun of the people there.

Do you really think you are swooping in to protect some synth newb who didn't bother to read 45+ pages of discussion?

Quote:
and anyway your BC16R is "already in production" so let me know when you get it man.


aaaaand.... this is exactly the kind of sarcastic crap I'm talking about. Who are you really helping with this?

We shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves. Some of us want our stuff. Some of us want our money back. Just because I don't share your 100% devotion to make life more miserable for Ben Fisher doesn't make me your enemy.
opsysbug
Alright already. Maybe I do just spread bad energy here so I'll stop.
I'll leave it up to those who are taking action and wish them well.
I certainly did not mean to offend anyone on this thread and I hope you all get
at least refunds from this SOB. Sorry I got a little loud.

A parting shot: Rob_o you came to this forum in 2009 I looked you up. Since
then you've spent all your time on this one thread Chimerasynthesis. You
never put up a file. Never talked about another piece of gear that you own.
Never gave kudos to another wiggler for a purchase or a video or a great sound file. Never built anything or talked about something that was broken.
Never posted in Euro, Serge, Metasonix. "your tunes' Noise, Off Topic. Nothing. So you've spent two years here doing nothing but cursing (yes you did I saw) and whining about not getting your BC16 or SM whatever. So who is spreading bad energy? Maybe you and Ben should email each other instead. Now...
I gotta go play me some synth. Good luck to you.
pas
we should probably get back on track, this thread is useful for chimera updates for all who have been burned by bc. let's not hate & move on
Nelson Baboon
What exactly is 'constructive' in this whole fiasco? Really - people are posting their opinions about all of this bullshit. I'd say that, given the history of all of this, opsysbug's comments are about as constructive as anyone else's.

I started out with a positive frame of mind, and couldn't understand people's attitudes. Shit - it was 2-3 years ago (?) that I ordered a bc16 and bc8 from Ben, and he was responsive, and shipping me my stuff when he said he would. there was all of this rhetoric about catching up , etc.

But then I watched as the months went by, and his promises just weren't fulfilled. So regardless of whether Ben is consciously fucking people over or not - it's quite obvious to me at this point that he is absolutely not to be trusted. Given all that, I'm not sure what relevance it has whether opsysbug got his stuff or not.



rob.ocelot wrote:
opsysbug wrote:
-Please man I've been watching you cry on both the Chimera forum and this forum for almost three years!! Letting that guy lead you on and holding out with your HOPE and your discussion of this gear like it is actually something REAL and that you actually think you have a chance to NEGOTIATE or DEAL with this asshole.


I'm trying to get my stuff. You, on the other hand, haven't contributed anything constructive (IMO) to this thread for more than a year other than sarcastic remarks and innuendo. Do you really think you are doing anyone a favor by lowering the signal-to-noise ratio of this discussion?

Quote:
Those who didnt get their stuff have all my sympathy as
synth- fever brothers should-there you got me WAY WRONG. I'm not here to crap on this thread I'm here to SHIT in the mouth of Ben and that rip off website that he calls a company.


Fine, but this isn't Ben's mouth. If you really feel that strongly why don't you create an anti-Ben Fisher anti-Chimera site that competes for search engine screen time on Google? How about something that HELPS people like researching legal avenues for people in the States?

Quote:
Some people don't deserve to be discussed as SYNTHMAKERS when they are NOT .


So you've decided for us that we shouldn't talk about him?

Quote:
And the questions you JUST ASKED ME are the ones that HE ASKED me a while back to get me to SHUT UP. SO SUE his ass or (censored) his (censored) and stop talking about his products like they are REAL.


So you're saying that because I'm not 100% with you in wanting to string him up then I am against you? It sure reads like that to me.

You seem to be lumping me in with the likes of Felixer (remember him?). Next you'll be accusing me of being a shill for Ben.

Take two steps back and look at the big picture. You got your stuff. If you keep this up you are no better than the guy on the Chimera forum who got his refund and then kept coming back to make fun of the people there.

Do you really think you are swooping in to protect some synth newb who didn't bother to read 45+ pages of discussion?

Quote:
and anyway your BC16R is "already in production" so let me know when you get it man.


aaaaand.... this is exactly the kind of sarcastic crap I'm talking about. Who are you really helping with this?

We shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves. Some of us want our stuff. Some of us want our money back. Just because I don't share your 100% devotion to make life more miserable for Ben Fisher doesn't make me your enemy.
rob.ocelot
opsysbug wrote:
A parting shot: Rob_o you came to this forum in 2009 I looked you up. Since
then you've spent all your time on this one thread Chimerasynthesis. You never put up a file. Never talked about another piece of gear that you own. Never gave kudos to another wiggler for a purchase or a video or a great sound file. Never built anything or talked about something that was broken. Never posted in Euro, Serge, Metasonix. "your tunes' Noise, Off Topic. Nothing.


I don't own a modular. Do I plan to buy one in the future? Maybe, but I'm way down low on Tom's waiting list at the moment. As such I don't think it's appropriate to post in forums where I don't actually own (or potentially own) the hardware. I also don't feel it's appropriate to repost links to the youtube videos I've made controlling the BC-16 with CV from a homemade theremin.

As for the other stuff:

* Gearslutz -- I'm mostly active in the Electronic Music Production subforum
* Yahoo Roland JX group -- Currently beta testing Kiwitronics JX-3p Expansion kit and hardware Patch Editor
* Yahoo Chroma Polaris group -- In planning stages for Polaris expansion kit, also pet project to recreate the 'Halloween' Polaris prototype

Other current projects:

Rebuilding an ARP ProSoloist the hard way. Showing people the goodness that is an Akai S612 fed into an AX-60 as a second oscillator. Interfacing Grendel Drone Commander to Andromeda Space Rockers with Infrared LED's. Modifying a Korg MS-20 to take V/Oct.

As for calling out a fellow gear owner to 'make music' or 'show something' -- That's really crass and uncool.

1) Most professional musicians I know don't post their work in public forums, for obvious reasons.
2) Not every gear owner is a musician.
3) Not every gear owner flaunts what they own

Quote:
So you've spent two years here doing nothing but cursing (yes you did I saw) and whining about not getting your BC16 or SM whatever.


So, you complain when I talk about the specs/particulars of the Chimera stuff *and* you're complaining about my complaining.
So what I am I supposed to talk about? hihi

Quote:
Maybe you and Ben should email each other instead.

I've talked with him a few times via email, mostly about technical things like how the BC-16's ring mod works. I believe the external inverter for the BC-16 was my suggestion after a discussion about how the BC-16's filter operates (please chime in if I'm misremembering this).

It sounds like we need two separate threads, one to talk about the Chimera synths and another to talk/bitch about the company's owner. Or, maybe you really can't separate the two. seriously, i just don't get it
dalasv
Oh man, how DOES that ring mod work again? Haha! I think it's only on or off and ring mods the VCO against the LFO? I dunno, I was actually messing around with my BC16 today trying to remember how that went. We lost a lot of documentation with the Forum deletion.
opsysbug
"1) Most professional musicians I know don't post their work in public forums, for obvious reasons."

hmmm.....
construct09
They are available sungja nodnod


From TOYS 'R' US


where he took the photos
richard
not this shit again
dalasv
Looks rad... wish it could just be shipped to me tomorrow.
Nuuj
It's not the first time he's made a great looking mock up for a product which may never actually ship...
Fidgit
i predict the following scenario which has happened over and over in the past already:

ben will find out that he needs to make a complete redesign in order to implement a new, groundbreaking function. all those who paid, please wait a bit longer, not much, then the new design will go into production on the new CNC machine. ah, wait, this particular machine has to be acquired and set up as well. a complex task, you know?! but shortly, soon you'll get a tracking number of your order.
transfixer
nope...yet...
very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
mornel
Chimera just posted his first update on Twitter in close to a year:

https://twitter.com/chimera_synths/status/141166890734206977

"finally finished machining all the bC16R chassis components"

Weird!
coilsandco
Weird indeed

SMACK!
bluedonkey
I work in Photographic post production. There is at least some post in the bcx image. Notice the red button goes from blurred in the front and then sharp behind then the next button is blurred.

Cameras dont work like that.
Tim Stinchcombe
bluedonkey wrote:
Notice the red button goes from blurred in the front and then sharp behind then the next button is blurred.
Looks to me like the change in contrast due to the reflection of the strip light gives the red the appearance of being sharper at that point - magnified both parts of the red look just as pixellated...

Tim
bluedonkey
smile

In fact Its the pixel wide area of dark that is strange, the jump from white to dark makes this look sharper.

Image is certainly a real object but it has had some post added . at least some heavy usm.
dalasv
Well this one looks a lot different:

Christopher Winkels
Heh. "Super Tool".
construct09
Well said Mr. Winkels
rob.ocelot
dalasv wrote:
Well this one looks a lot different:


Dalasv, is that a SM-16 or a BC-X?
coilsandco
A gold star to anyone who can tell me what this is

http://yfrog.com/kjwjuxvj
richard
looks like a new layout for the BC9 to me
dalasv
rob.ocelot wrote:
dalasv wrote:
Well this one looks a lot different:


Dalasv, is that a SM-16 or a BC-X?


seriously, i just don't get it
ignatius
every time i see this thread all i can think of is the movie "slapshot".

Umcorps
coilsandco wrote:
A gold star to anyone who can tell me what this is

http://yfrog.com/kjwjuxvj


construct09
Yeah, don,t take the fuckin bait

AGAIN
opsysbug
Yea....I was going to say that too. But somebody might jump down my throat for being all negitive and shit. But this is always the way it starts
with him right? The "new" BC--- pic. Oh...it's SO cool this one...! d'oh!
coilsandco
Ha! Wasn't planning on taking the bait - it just made me laugh that he is tinkering with new products while so many old orders remain unfulfilled.

Plus ça change!
Nuuj
Aside from shutting down his old website nothing appears to have changed.
coilsandco
seriously, i just don't get it
transfixer
it's almost christmas here and no sign from mr. fisher. despite his promisses. i am still expecting a refund for my two-years-and-nine-months-long-ago-payed-bc16.

Bite! Bite! Bite! Bite! Bite! Bite! Bite!
Pum
transfixer wrote:
it's almost christmas here and no sign from mr. fisher. despite his promisses. i am still expecting a refund for my two-years-and-nine-months-long-ago-payed-bc16.


So.... no one would take it seriously when Ben says, as he did to me today, "we are building only a limited number more of these bC16's and the wait will be something like 6-8 weeks"?
And the next mail: "If I wasn't busy fulfilling back-orders delivery would be a few days :-) I'm aiming for 4 weeks lead-time, so I'm saying 6-8 weeks to cope with unforeseen things."

Got the invoice, haven't paid. Should I?
Reality Checkpoint
Pum wrote:
Got the invoice, haven't paid. Should I?


Please don't.
Pum
Ok, thanks for telling me. Too bad he hasn't been able to sort it out, and still pull the same tricks.
Fidgit
Pum wrote:
Got the invoice, haven't paid. Should I?


based on my personal experience:

pay only if you:
- like to be lied to
- never want see your money again (or anything else you ordered)
- read zillions of the same, lame excuses and lies over and over again
- become a member of the club of those who weren't told not to do so

confused
nlaudadio
Come February, it will be two years since I ordered a b16 I no longer want. sad banana
Fidgit
nlaudadio wrote:
Come February, it will be two years since I ordered a b16 I no longer want. sad banana


ask for a refund...
"in the near future!" hihi
Nuuj
If one really wants a Chimera just wait for one to come up used.
It will be a far shorter wait than ordering from Ben.
lionelfischer
i feel your pain. i waited over 2 years and never got a refund, finally one day the thing arrived in the mail and i sold it after a week. it was an awesome little instrument but the thing reminded me of all the bullshit whenever i looked at it
dopefiend
lionelfischer wrote:
i feel your pain. i waited over 2 years and never got a refund, finally one day the thing arrived in the mail and i sold it after a week. it was an awesome little instrument but the thing reminded me of all the bullshit whenever i looked at it


Heh.....I did the same thing with an Euro ZO. Didn't even plug it in. Just shipped it over to its new owner. Didn't want to even look at the damn thing in my rack! angry very frustrating
dalasv
Pum wrote:
transfixer wrote:
it's almost christmas here and no sign from mr. fisher. despite his promisses. i am still expecting a refund for my two-years-and-nine-months-long-ago-payed-bc16.


So.... no one would take it seriously when Ben says, as he did to me today, "we are building only a limited number more of these bC16's and the wait will be something like 6-8 weeks"?
And the next mail: "If I wasn't busy fulfilling back-orders delivery would be a few days :-) I'm aiming for 4 weeks lead-time, so I'm saying 6-8 weeks to cope with unforeseen things."

Got the invoice, haven't paid. Should I?


This is so troubling to hear. I'm amazed that he says things like this. Still waiting on my refund.
construct09
I doubt we,ll even see 1 'token gesture refund'
coilsandco
rob.ocelot wrote:
It's interesting, but it's not the BC-X with the Steiner-Parker filter I put my money down on.


Earlier today I was suddenly reminded of the BCX when reading about the Arturia Minibrute with its Steiner-Parker filter.

Thoroughly depressing to have ever been involved with this guy.

sad
transfixer
he's giving me the silence treatment for about 2 weeks now...
what about that?!
Viking Viking Viking
RoyNeary
I haven't heard from him since early December, when he said he planned to refund me before Christmas.
richard
Same old shit unfortunately. I hope I never leave such misery in my wake.
captainvampire
Glad I found you here! It has been three years in the fall that I sent Ben $2600. and he has not responded to me in about a year and now I see he is up for business again. Please do not send this man any money. He owes many others refunds and synths before he should be filling new orders! If anyone has had luck with the UK equivalent of the Better Business Bureau, please let me know.
construct09
eek!
$2600?
What exactly did you order?

.. and welcome
richard
welcome, and oh fuck...
opsysbug
captainvampire wrote:
Glad I found you here! It has been three years in the fall that I sent Ben $2600. and he has not responded to me in about a year and now I see he is up for business again. Please do not send this man any money. He owes many others refunds and synths before he should be filling new orders! If anyone has had luck with the UK equivalent of the Better Business Bureau, please let me know.


I think if you go back and read these pages you'll see some folks who
attempted legal action. not sure who was successful though...maybe a group action? waah Sorry for you man.
rob.ocelot
It's always scary when Ben goes quiet.

He's updated his website again, to say he's not taking orders and not building anything. very frustrating

Not promising, not at all.
greenslime
seriously, i just don't get it
dalasv
Thread with the most uses of that icon seriously, i just don't get it
Starrefision
mine is still broken. seriously, i just don't get it
nlaudadio
seriously, i just don't get it
greenslime
construct09 wrote:
eek!
$2600?
rhythminmind
Been waiting long over a year for mine/refund. Countless emails, sad ordeal for sure.
Has time for new web design but not to ship, really?
greenslime
seriously, i just don't get it
construct09
troll^
OculoRapido
Recapping ~3 years on this thread and ~5 of reporting elsewhere:

Lots of new products declared, many people pre-pay;

very few products ship in substantial numbers, and if some shipped, it was very selective, ignoring any apparent backorder priority;

a few dealers are favored with later shippable product while direct-to-mfr backorders languish;

new equipment investments and/or manufacturing problems are cited by mfr to rationalize continuing non-shipment of offered/ordered products (e.g., aluminum bc-16);

many 'investors' complain of multiyear non-fulfillment of orders, some of multiyear delays in shipping;

requests for refunds ignored or manipulated online;

'investor' RFIs and complaints censored and manipulated on mfr's online forum;

new 'investors' lured in by mfr's online new product promos and claims of 'genius hardware' from a few gifted recipients;

miscellaneous actions attempted against mfr in his British jurisdiction, foreign 'investors' SOL;

opsysbug and others get flamed for trying to alert other potential victims on this forum;

someone ordered $2600 of products from this mfr; eek!

some folks still expect product to be shipped or refunds to be tendered, after years of this debacle.

The only really new disclosure would be reports of a certain someone remanded to custody for sustained fraudulent business practices (internet, postal), false and deceptive adverstising, and theft.

truth^
pas
OculoRapido wrote:

The only really new disclosure would be reports of a certain someone remanded to custody for sustained fraudulent business practices (internet, postal), false and deceptive adverstising, and theft.


did i miss something? details? source?
OculoRapido
No. ...WOULD be (conditional sense). Nothing new that I know of....
pas
website update, apparently a backorder announcement is due shortly,

http://www.chimera-synthesis.com/#/contact/4556728933

perhaps mr. fisher has found a solution to this fiasco...
richard
perhaps seriously, i just don't get it

he has seen fit to integrate some features i discussed with him to the BCXr specification. In fact it sounds like he has expanded upon them. The recording features are ahead of Buchla is some respects. Whether that means anything at all in reality remains to be seen. I was talking to my friend about Ben yesterday and we remembered for the upteenth time that this guy has the capacity to design some of the most original instruments on the planet. If not to actually produce them.

But announcing that he will make an announcement, when his announcements have historically frequently led to nothing, in itself is not really a cause for optimism.

In fact it shouldn't have lead me to waste my time even on this post waah
opsysbug
OculoRapido wrote:
Recapping ~3 years on this thread and ~5 of reporting elsewhere:

Lots of new products declared, many people pre-pay;

very few products ship in substantial numbers, and if some shipped, it was very selective, ignoring any apparent backorder priority;

a few dealers are favored with later shippable product while direct-to-mfr backorders languish;

new equipment investments and/or manufacturing problems are cited by mfr to rationalize continuing non-shipment of offered/ordered products (e.g., aluminum bc-16);

many 'investors' complain of multiyear non-fulfillment of orders, some of multiyear delays in shipping;

requests for refunds ignored or manipulated online;

'investor' RFIs and complaints censored and manipulated on mfr's online forum;

new 'investors' lured in by mfr's online new product promos and claims of 'genius hardware' from a few gifted recipients;

miscellaneous actions attempted against mfr in his British jurisdiction, foreign 'investors' SOL;

opsysbug and others get flamed for trying to alert other potential victims on this forum;

someone ordered $2600 of products from this mfr; eek!

some folks still expect product to be shipped or refunds to be tendered, after years of this debacle.

The only really new disclosure would be reports of a certain someone remanded to custody for sustained fraudulent business practices (internet, postal), false and deceptive adverstising, and theft.

truth^


Maybe we should read this again? Mr. Ben is just doing his best to keep everyone hanging on a bit longer so he can get JUST a FEW MORE folks
to drop 500$ (or 2500$) on something that will never be. Best thing one of you knowing wigglers could do would be to hack that site.
RoyNeary
richard wrote:
he has seen fit to ...


I worry that even talking about the alleged features of the alleged product might cause new "customers" to be created.

BTW, pas, great Brain Damage avatar!
bluedonkey
http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/
Is all I can add to this conversation. As far as I can make out if he has offered goods and these are not delivered then he has committed fraud. It would certainly be worth a conversation with these people.

I do always feel ashamed to be british when I read this post of woe
RoyNeary
Thanks, you have definitely added something there as I'm not aware of anyone having reported using that site. I'll pursue it.
Fidgit
thank you, i just submitted a fraud report for my case with many details regarding ben's past and current identity and business practices. basically all which is available online with some research.

Actionfraud (http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/) can also be used by people not living in the UK!



bluedonkey wrote:
http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/
Is all I can add to this conversation. As far as I can make out if he has offered goods and these are not delivered then he has committed fraud. It would certainly be worth a conversation with these people.

I do always feel ashamed to be british when I read this post of woe
construct09
Well done Fidgit !!!!
Thanks for the heads up regarding people outside of the U.K.
construct09
I just submitted a Fraud report

Get on to it Wigglers!!!! angry Ya got nothin to lose seriously, i just don't get it

Thanks bluedonkey and Fidgit
coilsandco
Has anybody here heard anything from Ben lately?

seriously, i just don't get it
zdarma
construct09 wrote:
I just submitted a Fraud report

Get on to it Wigglers!!!! angry Ya got nothin to lose seriously, i just don't get it

Thanks bluedonkey and Fidgit


also submitted one
dalasv
I emailed him telling him I would be filing a report. He told me he would resolve the issue in April. Just a few more days and I will file. I seriously cannot believe how much he lies. Never encountered this in my life.
RoyNeary
dalasv wrote:
I emailed him telling him I would be filing a report. He told me he would resolve the issue in April. Just a few more days and I will file. I seriously cannot believe how much he lies. Never encountered this in my life.


I filed a report myself shortly after the link was posted.

Anyone who has not received goods they paid for from Ben really should file a report. There is only a chance of the system taking notice if the same name comes up a lot.
construct09
DO IT nodnod
nlaudadio
This thread just reached 1000 replies and still no b16.
construct09
You will not get it.... You know that...Submit a fraud report
nlaudadio
I just was keeping tabs on the thread more than continuing to fret over the little toilet cake synth. I wrote that thing off long ago.
construct09
nlaudadio wrote:
I just was keeping tabs on the thread more than continuing to fret over the little toilet cake synth. I wrote that thing off long ago.


Join us....


Actionfraud (http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/) can also be used by people not living in the UK!
nlaudadio
Yes. You're right. Will do it, then.
transfixer
It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners
transfixer
i did it! 3.5 years is a helluva long time!
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
coilsandco
I still do occasional Google searches to see if he hasn't popped up again under a different name (and different limited company) looking to rip more people off.

http://www.ben-fisher.co.uk/ and http://www.chimera-synthesis.com/

still exist, but are little more than holding pages. I wouldn't be surprised if he's still trying to scam anyone who gets in touch through the contact page of these sites though.

The more fraud reports submitted the better, but I still feel that he has gotten away with it to a certain extent. What was the last anyone here heard from Ben 'lying & thieving' Fisher?
rob.ocelot
coilsandco wrote:
What was the last anyone here heard from Ben 'lying & thieving' Fisher?


Last email (yes, he uses it!) I had from him was May 27, 2012. Content is pretty much the same-old same-old "Moving to new facilities, rebooting website in June, will give everyone an update on lead times"

Dead Banana

I still wonder how he can afford to move his factory around when he doesn't seem to make anything.

I guess the upside is that BC-16's and BC-8's are now rare and potentially sell in the aftermarket for 2-3x what he was charging. As it stands I'm tempted to sell one of my BC-16's to make up for the no-show SM-16 and BC-X.

Sooooooooooooo glad I never sent my first BC-16 back to him to be updated to version 2.
Fidgit
childish liar and ruthless thief.

sure i have evidence for both if somebody's interested. but it's a waste of time talking about that individual called ben fisher...
life will give him what he deserves.
showyao
I just want to continue this thread,

I place order in 2008. Last year he do send me mail about refund but I say I want to have CV sequencer. Then there is no response anymore. I try to get refund from PAYPAL but as you know, it is not work.

I do not know what he is thinking actually, because I do receive BC8 before but the unit sometimes not power on........but I still have to say it is pretty cool. Tiny and powerful. But because of the unstable power supply so I give it to my friend.

Also, when he show the spec it is pretty awesome. I still hope he can complete these projects. I believe it can sale a lot. Also It is pity regarding terrible business management and become a criminal.
julien
Did you see that?
Ben Fisher the man behind Chimera Synthesis is credited for the electronic craft of the new Stylophone S2 hmmm.....
http://www.stylophone2.com/abouts2.html
If you want your money, now ask Dubreq hihi
Thee Loving Hand
And yet again they are asking customers to pay upfront for an instrument that is not yet in production! oh dear..
dalasv
angry
dalasv
I emailed Dubreq politely asking them to encourage Ben to do the right thing. Maybe everyone else should too?

Be polite! It's not their fault that he's awful, but maybe they will bring it up with him and tell him he should fix this.
opsysbug
"Email us at info@stylophone2.com."

Jeez I wonder how he got that job?!
Maybe everyone here should give them a polite but firm heads up.
Fidgit
opsysbug wrote:
"Email us at info@stylophone2.com."

Maybe everyone here should give them a polite but firm heads up.


i did so.
dalasv
I also emailed Ben, and he claims he's going to contact me in January about a resolution. Go on, pull the other one, it's got bells on!

If I had a BC synth for every time he's said this to me...
transfixer
no news about ben? did they caught him?
applause
coilsandco
http://www.chimera-synthesis.com/

'Rebooting 2013' apparently

d'oh!
Fidgit
how many times did we have this already? fishing for new victims who prepay for some promised devices and never receive anything in return. no device, no refund. instead lies a gogo.

we've been there with you, ben. we heard all your childish lies. maybe you manage to find a way to earn your money with honest work instead of stealing and ripping off other people, hmm?! apparently not yet.
plancton9
now
he is rebooting in 2013... but haven't time to answer email when i am waiting for a BC16 since 2008
cat6batch
The new page is registered to him... Could possibly be his actual address as well.

domain: chimera-synthesis.com
reg_created: 2007-12-06 16:47:22
expires: 2013-12-06 16:47:22
created: 2010-12-22 15:33:24
changed: 2012-12-07 02:00:21
transfer-prohibited: yes
ns0: a.dns.gandi.net
ns1: b.dns.gandi.net
ns2: c.dns.gandi.net
owner-c:
nic-hdl: BF1682-GANDI
organisation: ~
person: Ben Fisher
obfuscated: Obfuscated by Gandi
address: (Gandi) 63-65 boulevard Massena
zipcode: (Gandi) 75013
city: (Gandi) Paris
country: (Gandi) France
phone: (Gandi) +33.170377666
fax: (Gandi) +33.143730576
email: 3f3597a46370d717f31c5bf4beb79666-830504@contact.gandi.net
lastupdated: 2012-07-13 11:16:39
admin-c:
nic-hdl: BF1682-GANDI
organisation: ~
person: Ben Fisher
obfuscated: Obfuscated by Gandi
address: (Gandi) 63-65 boulevard Massena
zipcode: (Gandi) 75013
city: (Gandi) Paris
country: (Gandi) France
phone: (Gandi) +33.170377666
fax: (Gandi) +33.143730576
email: 3f3597a46370d717f31c5bf4beb79666-830504@contact.gandi.net
lastupdated: 2012-07-13 11:16:39
tech-c:
nic-hdl: BF1682-GANDI
organisation: ~
person: Ben Fisher
obfuscated: Obfuscated by Gandi
address: (Gandi) 63-65 boulevard Massena
zipcode: (Gandi) 75013
city: (Gandi) Paris
country: (Gandi) France
phone: (Gandi) +33.170377666
fax: (Gandi) +33.143730576
email: 3f3597a46370d717f31c5bf4beb79666-830504@contact.gandi.net
lastupdated: 2012-07-13 11:16:39
bill-c:
nic-hdl: BF1682-GANDI
organisation: ~
person: Ben Fisher
obfuscated: Obfuscated by Gandi
address: (Gandi) 63-65 boulevard Massena
zipcode: (Gandi) 75013
city: (Gandi) Paris
country: (Gandi) France
phone: (Gandi) +33.170377666
fax: (Gandi) +33.143730576
email: 3f3597a46370d717f31c5bf4beb79666-830504@contact.gandi.net
lastupdated: 2012-07-13 11:16:39
Feinstrom
He has been involved in the new Stylophone S2 by Dübreq as it seems.
Maybe he'll use the money he earns in that job for his own company...

We can wish, can't we?

Cheers,
Bert
BugBrand
Gandi seems to just be his (french) webhost company - have a look at their site, that gives the postal address registered..
richard
Obfuscated by Gandi is a weird sentence.

Ben, Ben, you took my gentle dreams and crushed them into dust with your filthy blood encrusted hobnail boots. I am afraid he is an inveterate liar and nothing he says or publishes is to believed.

That said, how he does business is so irrational, almost anything is possible...
tIB
richard wrote:
Obfuscated by Gandi is a weird sentence.



Reignites the whole Gandhi vs Machiavelli debate.

http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22038

(Sorry, this thread perhaps not a good place for the lolz, what a mess.)
matttech
richard wrote:
Obfuscated by Gandi is a weird sentence.


it’d make a fairly pretentious band name too......maybe i should suggest it to some of my students
chamomileshark
I thought he and his wife were banned from being directors. Maybe they found someone else to front the company.
Feinstrom
chamomileshark wrote:
Maybe they found someone else to front the company.

Even better he should find someone to run the company so he can stick to the things he can do: build synthesizers.
The new Stylophone S2 looks suspiciously like a re-packaged bC16 (spec-wise) - I'll find out soon...

Cheers,
Bert
DonKartofflo
Mr White wrote:
wich of you own a little of there beasts???

http://www.chimerasynthesis.com/#/onlineshop/4529104839

I have a BC8 and I'm waiting a BC16 from december... w00t


BTW Mr. White, WHERE IS THAT IMAGE FROM? I wanna print me a t shirt applause
richard
Feinstrom wrote:

The new Stylophone S2 looks suspiciously like a re-packaged bC16


well, it would be awesome if it was, but I never managed to get my BC16 to sound as shitty as the S2 demos I've heard
rob.ocelot
Anyone got an update?

I spoke to Ben via email a few months ago and I got the usual 'relaunching soon, just hang on a little longer' so I told him I'd like a refund and I got the usual 'there's a lot of people in line ahead of you so be patient'.

Blah blah. Same-old, same-old.
dalasv
Yeah, I had pretty much the same experience.
Fidgit
i sold all his sh*t (back from the times when he still was a honest guy) and reported him (and the fraud he committed) to the official UK police internet fraud site (Actionfraud, http://www.actionfraud.org.uk)

no need for any further thoughts about that childish liar and dishonest thief. life (and UK police) will ensure he gets what he deserves. The MSN Smack!
construct09
Just got an email....


In the past you placed an order for a bC16 with Chimera Synthesis, as this was not delivered we would like to offer you the new bC16 synthesizer when we begin shipments in September.

Please can you update us with your current address and email address (if it has changed).

As a former Director of Chimera Synthesis Ltd I am very sorry for the delay and would like to offer my apologies.

kind regards,

Ben Fisher

Chimera Instruments Ltd

www.ichimera.com

so.....what about the SM you owe me for too seriously, i just don't get it
pas
construct09 wrote:
Just got an email....


In the past you placed an order for a bC16 with Chimera Synthesis, as this was not delivered we would like to offer you the new bC16 synthesizer when we begin shipments in September.

Please can you update us with your current address and email address (if it has changed).

As a former Director of Chimera Synthesis Ltd I am very sorry for the delay and would like to offer my apologies.

kind regards,

Ben Fisher

Chimera Instruments Ltd

www.ichimera.com

so.....what about the SM you owe me for too seriously, i just don't get it


Recieved this also today for my two bc16's. I really hope he makes this right. I'm not holding my breath or anything, but it would be grand to have these finally. I wonder what this new version is like? Was any info released regarding the mk2 bc16? Can't help but feel like this is just a shuffling of the web, but I try to be optimistic.
Umcorps
hmmm.....

Enjoy the show!
Tim Stinchcombe
I'm gobsmacked. So a couple of years after having declared himself bankrupt, and with around £4.5k (second edit: my first recollection was good: on re-doing the search, the exact figure is £4,439) of CCJs outstanding (which I assume is what suspended the dissolution of Chimera Synthesis Ltd), he is back in business again, as a company director of Chimera Instruments Ltd. I would have thought the ban on being a company director would last a fair while, but if I'm reading this document correctly (linked from here) it is only a year. Only one (long) word comes to mind: fuuuuuuuuuuuck!
rob.ocelot
So, a THIRD iteration of Chimera?

It's really, really poor form to give the URL for your 'new' website only for it to be a newly registered domain with generic placeholder pictures. Tackier than an 'under construction' icon from the 90's. For fucks sake, have SOMETHING ready to show that you really mean business this time.

edit: yay, we now have an 'under construction' message. d'oh!

I seriously doubt he's going to be filling outstanding orders any time soon. All of the money we've given him has been spent. That means new customers who will likely get their stuff first, new goodies sent to prominent musicians and music bloggers, everyone else can wait. We're going to party like it's 2008, again!

The BC-16 was fantastic in 2008. It's 2013 and with stuff like the Korg Volcas, Teenage Engineering's OP-1, and MFB's offerings your money is better spent on products that actually exist and with companies that wont jerk you around and lie to you.
transfixer
this morning i got something strange in my email:


"In the past you placed an order for a bC16 with Chimera Synthesis, as this was not delivered we would like to offer you the new bC16 synthesizer when we begin shipments in September.

Please can you update us with your current address and email address (if it has changed).

As a former Director of Chimera Synthesis Ltd I am very sorry for the delay and would like to offer my apologies.

kind regards,

Ben Fisher
Chimera Instruments Ltd
www.ichimera.com"

...did anyone else?

zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie zombie
construct09
Read the last few posts transfixer
Tim Stinchcombe
I just checked with the receiver: he was made bankrupt on 20 Jan 2012, and discharged on 23 Jul 2012 (apparently the max is a year; the minimum not normally less than 4 months). A mere two weeks and one day later (7 Aug 2012) he set himself up as director of Chimera Instruments Ltd. - he seems to know how to play the system. (I don't know how to check to see if the CCJs have been met - my guess is they will still be outstanding, as they were against the old company...)
ndkent
Hmm. I'm not owed a BC16, I bought a sequencer and paid "Ben Fisher". Did not receive an e-mail

I think the plan is to send some token previous ordered units and perhaps fulfill a few new built sales to people who post on the net in order to encourage more paid unbuilt orders.
rob.ocelot
ndkent wrote:
Hmm. I'm not owed a BC16, I bought a sequencer and paid "Ben Fisher". Did not receive an e-mail

I think the plan is to send some token previous ordered units and perhaps fulfill a few new built sales to people who post on the net in order to encourage more paid unbuilt orders.


You nailed it. I predict he will disappear in about six months time after taking money for new orders.

In November of 2011 he offered me a refund on a sequencer and a BC-X. I still don't have the refund. The man cannot sit still and finish a manual or even a website, much less do something simple like put a cheque in the mail.

The upside is that any product he actually made is probably worth 2-3 times what you paid for it. I know at least one prominent BC-16 owner who sold his on ebay recently because (I'm paraphrasing here) "every time I went to use it I was reminded of all the crap I went through to get it and of the other people who got ripped off. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and is a creative buzzkill."
kd2ajn
Maybe he should try a kickstarter.
dalasv
Still haven't received my refund or my BCX. I saw a BC-16 go for around $600 on eBay. I keep meaning to sell mine.
richard
I've heard nothing from him
Feinstrom
According to the Chimera website (and an e-mail from Ben about a week ago) there are limited stocks of bC6, bC8 and bC9 available.
Exactly the three models I have (the bC9 being the best one I think - a part of each and every live gig of mine). Hmph!

I'll wait for whatever might happen in the future...

Cheers,
Bert
rob.ocelot
I'm tempted to offer him an option to fulfill the remainder of my order (BC-X + SM-16) as a couple of BC-9's and a BC-6 just so I can jump off the train.

Then again, I might be opening myself up to a whole new cycle of 'shipping soon' promises...

very frustrating
Tim Stinchcombe
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
(I don't know how to check to see if the CCJs have been met - my guess is they will still be outstanding, as they were against the old company...)
Accidentally rediscovered a pdf on my computer that reminded me how I did this, so I did the search again, and what do you know? As expected, all the unsatisfied CCJs against Chimera Synthesis Ltd., totalling £4,439 are still outstanding. Very disheartening to see such a state of affairs, especially since he is able to set himself up as a new limited company apparently with complete immunity from what has gone before.
Feinstrom
Call me naive as long as you like (because maybe I am), but I still believe that one fine day we all will receive what we paid for.

I agree that Ben Fisher should definitively co-work with someone who is better in business than himself, and his lack of communication is more than annoying, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is able to build such brilliant little synths should take all this trouble to cheat us all for a few hundred pounds (which still is quite an amount of money, I know!) - there must be easier ways to do that!

What he is doing at the moment (building and selling small amounts of small units he can build with small capital) actually makes sense if he wants to relaunch a credible company and fulfill outstanding orders one day.
You can't reach into a naked man's pockets, can you?

But I might be totally wrong and he really is the bad guy everyone says.
Time will show.

Cheers,
Blue-eyed Bert
richard
Its not to do with planning to rip people off or being a bad guy. Its the result that counts, and how you communicate and treat people. It amounts to ripping people off in the end whether you intend it or not.

It is just the same with small promotors and small record labels, so many of them set out with great intentions and end up ripping people off just because they have no cash to pay them because they have no idea how to run a business.
Feinstrom
richard wrote:
Its not to do with planning to rip people off or being a bad guy. Its the result that counts, and how you communicate and treat people. It amounts to ripping people off in the end whether you intend it or not.

I was under the assumption that "ripping off people" involves the intention to do so.
Ben's ways of communication and his way to run a company leave much to be desired, no doubt about it.

I sincerely hope we haven't yet seen the end result of what we had ordered...

Cheers,
Bert
opsysbug
Feinstrom wrote:
Call me naive as long as you like (because maybe I am), but I still believe that one fine day we all will receive what we paid for.

I agree that Ben Fisher should definitively co-work with someone who is better in business than himself, and his lack of communication is more than annoying, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is able to build such brilliant little synths should take all this trouble to cheat us all for a few hundred pounds (which still is quite an amount of money, I know!) - there must be easier ways to do that!

What he is doing at the moment (building and selling small amounts of small units he can build with small capital) actually makes sense if he wants to relaunch a credible company and fulfill outstanding orders one day.
You can't reach into a naked man's pockets, can you?

But I might be totally wrong and he really is the bad guy everyone says.
Time will show.

Cheers,
Blue-eyed Bert


106 pages of people getting ripped off here. The guy with a past history of
ripping people off with AV equipment before he even started making synths. Years long pattern of diversion/ lies/ miscommunication. Company folded by legal action. Various companys opened under various names to get around laws and/or delivering product. The absoulute worst
and most lame excuses I have ever heard when not delivering product.
There is no product. There is no company. The is only one rather clever
sociopath trying to figure more clever ways to take your money.
When you actually "see" one of these "new units" that this guy is "producing" Ghost delivered to this forum you let me know.
I'll buy you a beer. Guinness ftw!
Feinstrom
opsysbug wrote:
When you actually "see" one of these "new units" that this guy is "producing" Ghost delivered to this forum you let me know.
I'll buy you a beer. Guinness ftw!

I take your word for it thumbs up !

Cheers,
Bert
opsysbug
Good german beer. w00t
Feinstrom
opsysbug wrote:
Good german beer. w00t

OK, in that case see you at Musikmesse in Frankfurt or at the "Happy Knobbing" modular synthesizer meeting in Fischbach (Whitsun weekend)!

Cheers,
Bert
Tim Stinchcombe
opsysbug wrote:
106 pages of people getting ripped off here. The guy with a past history of
ripping people off with AV equipment before he even started making synths. Years long pattern of diversion/ lies/ miscommunication. Company folded by legal action. Various companys opened under various names to get around laws and/or delivering product. The absoulute worst
and most lame excuses I have ever heard when not delivering product.
There is no product. There is no company. The is only one rather clever
sociopath trying to figure more clever ways to take your money.
I agree. That he is apparently renting business space for his new limited company suggests he has some form of income stream (and indeed, there are yearly overheads in running a limited company in itself) - why doesn't he use that income stream to pay off people he currently owes money to, i.e. the £4,439 of outstanding CCJs (and possibly a few thousand more to others who haven't sought legal redress)? I'm still dismayed that the legal system allows people to carry on like this - I wonder if there is any case to answer for in clearly using the old company name, Chimera Synthesis (in that the website is still there, including a means to part people from their money), even though that has been struck off and still has the CCJs outstanding against it?
coilsandco
Who was it said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Do NOT give this man any of your money.

very frustrating
Fidgit
ben tends to confuse payments for his (vaporware) devices with donations... evil

he's a liar and thief, consider this when dealing with him. yes, i do have plenty of evidence, i'm not just talking nonsense here.
dalasv
Yeah, I've been lied to by him for around FIVE years now, so I think it's safe to just call him a liar and a thief?
SPIKE the Percussionist
I actually own a BC8.

Evil little noiz beast.

However...
i bought it many years ago.

Didn't know all the drama around this guy though!
Glad I didn't get ripped off!
viilis
http://www.ichimera.com/buy/4578635692

Ships in 1-3 days!
richard
well we've heard that shit before
coilsandco
I love how the website is still 'under construction' and he's listed the company number, VAT number etc in order to cover his back from the countless people he has ripped off over the past few years.

This leopard certainly hasn't changed his spots, has he?

BEN FISHER = LYING THIEVING CROOK
truckasaurus
I have a BC9 which I bought used here on the muff's marketplace. I love that little synth; it's always a joy to play. It's a shame that dude's such a dirtbag and has burned so many people.

From what I've gleaned from the last pages of this thread, the consensus is it's very unlikely that he'll fulfill any outstanding orders with this "new" endeavor. How does bankruptcy work in the UK? Does he just start with a clean slate without any obligation to reimburse Chimera Synthesis clients? If so, what do think his intentions are for his new Ltd? His reputation precedes him by miles, and in such a niche market it seems doubtful that new orders will be flooding in.

Also, is there a running count of how many customers are still owed products?
richard
Ben's longstanding commitment to deceiving himself, his customers and to his appalling "business" practices are almost heroic. He seems quite determined to not succeed in business despite apparently having the products, technical skill and creative ingenuity to do so.

And yes, his products are really good, which makes the way he conducts himself all seem even more futile and self-defeating. I do hope nobody here falls for his latest plans to defraud us. If you are tempted do yourself a favour and spend a couple of miserable hours reading this thread from the beginning.
Fidgit
what he said. i can confirm.
UK Police has a record on him - with contributions from me and many others. avoid this liar and thief.
he can't distinguish between donations and orders. smile
cpt.credible
I waited 3 years for mine and then when he said i could have one shipped immediately or wait 1 week and get the aluminium unibody version i told him to just fucking send it. And miraculously he did. it is pretty cool, but i wouldn't EVER do any kind of business with him again.
On a related note, it seems from the sparse info on the about page that the company is now owned and run by other people. does anybody know if this is the case? it would be nice to see some of those products manufactured and sold in a sincere and sensible manner!
Tim Stinchcombe
cpt.credible wrote:
On a related note, it seems from the sparse info on the about page that the company is now owned and run by other people. does anybody know if this is the case?
I don't understand how you came to that conclusion: the 'whois' records for both ichimera.com and chimera-synthesis.com both have 'Ben Fisher' all over them; both 'about' pages at those sites (superficially) seem to be the same text, and mention only Ben Fisher (twice); the Companies House records for Chimera Instruments (without paying to see the full docs) suggest he is the director, and Chimera Synthesis still seems to have had its dissolution suspended (presumably due to the approx £4,500 of CCJs outstanding on it). All I see is 'Ben Fisher' written through the whole thing, like lettering in a stick of rock, leaving me in no doubt it is him all the way...
cpt.credible
Tim Stinchcombe wishfull thinking I guess smile Now that I read it again I don't quite undestand how I came to that conclusion myself.
coilsandco
Has anybody had any email contact with the delightful Mr Fisher lately?

The various Chimera/Ben Fisher sites seem to have been 'under construction' for an age (just like the SM16s, eh?) so I wonder if he is successful in his continued efforts to scam money out of people or if his reputation well and truly precedes him?

At least when you do a search for Chimera, this thread and the VSE BC16 pages come close to the top so his duplicitousness is at least fairly public.

Does no harm to keep reminding people though that BEN FISHER = CROOK

w00t
cpt.credible
I mailed him a some technical questions about the BC16 a couple of weeks ago and got a friendly reply the same evening. He even updated his webpage to make the bc16 manual available again.
construct09
And?
rob.ocelot
For anyone wondering, it appears Ben has fallen off the map (again).

Nothing new on the Chimera website -- in fact, there's less of everything and nothing for sale. I thought that maybe he smartened up and actually was beavering away at the outstanding backlog but I've heard no tales of anyone receiving paid-for product.

So, same-old same-old. Now in it's SEVENTH year.
construct09
My bc16 just died recently:deadbanana:
Hardly surprising I guess seriously, i just don't get it
Tim Stinchcombe
The recent appearance of two BC16s for sale (one in BST here, the other on eBay, though the ridiculously high price of both - 500euro - made me wonder whether it is the same one...?), made me do a little run-around the usual suspects to see what's new.

At Companies House, it looks like the suspension of the 'compulsory strike-off' for 'Chimera Synthesis' may have been lifted, as there is a new 'first gazette' notice for strike-off again (mid March). Makes me wonder whether there has been any change in all the outstanding CCJs (?).

And at Chimera Instruments, I see this:

http://chimerainstruments.com/products/vc100/

- don't recall seeing that before [Edit: that is because it is nothing to do with Ben Fisher, see below], so does it mean we have now moved from robotics -> synthesizers -> 'electrophysiology research instrumentation', and a whole new target audience/marketplace...?!

[Edit: as pointed out here, and my error acknowledged here, there is no connection between chimerainstruments.com and Ben Fisher - a simple whois check would have told me that...]
rob.ocelot
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
The recent appearance of two BC16s for sale (one in BST here, the other on eBay, though the ridiculously high price of both - 500euro - made me wonder whether it is the same one...?), made me do a little run-around the usual suspects to see what's new.

At Companies House, it looks like the suspension of the 'compulsory strike-off' for 'Chimera Synthesis' may have been lifted, as there is a new 'first gazette' notice for strike-off again (mid March). Makes me wonder whether there has been any change in all the outstanding CCJs (?).

And at Chimera Instruments, I see this:

http://chimerainstruments.com/products/vc100/

- don't recall seeing that before, so does it mean we have now moved from robotics -> synthesizers -> 'electrophysiology research instrumentation', and a whole new target audience/marketplace...?!



There was also the motion control/steadycam products (in between the nonstarter robotics firm and the synthesizers) with a lot of unfulfilled orders as well.

I'm sure people here will be thrilled to know that their hard-earned money went to fund his new factory, CNC equipment, reflow furnace, and god knows what else that he can now use to scam others in different industries. Kinda figured he'd try lab or hospital instrumentation next since you don't have to make many units and they tend to cost tens of multiples more than cheapie synths. However, any hospital device that comes in contact with a patient requires very strict quality control and rigorous testing. I really don't think dear old Ben is up to the job.

If only he just, you know, kept making cool synthesizers -- emphasis on the 'making' part since he never seemed to be able to wear all the hats at once and maintain a decent workflow. A one-man-band cannot design, market, build, QA, ship, CS, and maintain a website.

Then again, just look at all of the cheapie mainstream and boutique synths on the market now -- Everything from Korg's MS-20 and Odyssey reissues, Eowave Magma, SE Boomstar, Arturia 'Brute family, and even the higher end like the Tinysizer. All of them are now taking Ben's lunch money, or at least money that he could have made in the six years between 2007 and 2013 -- if he had just pulled his thumb out of his arse and got to work instead of thinking up new ways to scam people out of money.

<sigh> But I digress.

I'm never going to get that refund I was promised, am I?
Fidgit
rob.ocelot wrote:
I'm never going to get that refund I was promised, am I?


of course you are! right next week ben will issue a refund to you. that's what he wrote so many times to me, he can't fail at his 98745879234th attempt! thumbs up

no, seriously, i got scammed by this liar and thief myself. report him to the UK police (link available in this thread) and forget about it. unfortunately we can't do much more. confused
Chimera Synthesis
Hi, this is Ben Fisher (Chimera Synthesis),

Having read and followed this thread and other threads (on other forums) and after all the things that have happened in the past, I think I owe you an apology and an explanation:

When I designed the bC16 back in late 2007, I used the materials and tools on hand (lots of 10mm Perspex 069 from making timecode clapper boards & a converted Denford Triac CNC). The body of the bC16 took a huge amount of time to machine, lots of manual tool changes and was a PITA to get right - I looked for another way.

So in late 2009 Chimera Synthesis Ltd purchased (via my bank) a Hurco VM10 CNC, on paper this was a great idea - the reality was that it was unreliable and didn't do quite what we planned. As company we never had a really great cash-flow, and this lead to some bad decisions regarding production priorities. Cash-flow got even tighter and we fought very hard against bankruptcy for the best part of a year, however on 20 Jan 2012 I was made personally bankrupt (I personally guaranteed the debts of Chimera Synthesis Ltd to the bank). This tends to have fairly devastating financial & other implications, part of this is not being able to own or act as a director of a Limited company for the duration of the bankruptcy - I was granted early discharge from bankruptcy on 23 July 2012. Since then I have earned a living doing subcontract design work.

I was proud of the equipment I built for the film industry, a lot less proud of how the business turned out and mistakes I made - it's something I will revisit in the future, but for now there isn't alot I can do. As for www.chimerainstruments.com - nothing to do with me. I maintain www.chimera-synthesis.com and it's directed to www.ichimera.com, this is my website.

At present Chimera Instruments Ltd (my company since 7th August 2012) are building 50 brand new bC16's (mk5 aluminium unibody) - the bulk of these are for those Chimera Synthesis Ltd customers who wished to maintain their old order, any excess units will be available for sale (and cash generated will be used to refund any cancelled orders). If there is demand I'll build another batch of bC16's after that. Also, I will offer a bC16 repair service when the new orders have been dispatched.

I am very sorry for how things have worked out over the last few years, the poor customer service, the errors of judgement, the delays and the generally duff way I have managed the business. The only thing I can do at this moment is express my honest apologies to all Chimera customers. I am well aware that it takes much more than that to re-build my reputation in the synthesizer business, and I sincerely ask you to judge me by my actual business in the near future.

Yours,

Ben Fisher (ben@ichimera.com, bc@chimera-synthesis.com)
Chimera Instruments Ltd
Suite 111
16 High Street
Ipswich, IP1 3JX, UK
chamomileshark
" The only thing I can do at this moment is express my honest apologies to all Chimera customers."

So no refunds then?
Feinstrom
"any excess units will be available for sale (and cash generated will be used to refund any cancelled orders)"

Apparently not at this moment.
You can't get anything out of a naked man's pockets, as we say in Germany...

A few words of explanation from me:
I am one of those people Ben still owes money/synthesizers, a bCX and an SQ16 in my case.
I refused to give up hope, and so I have never really lost contact with him, and finally we met in London about a week ago.
We talked for more than four hours (about the past, the present and the future), and I (nearly 50, not completely stupid and equipped with a bit of common sense and knowledge of human nature) got the impression of Ben being an honest man who had simply bitten off far more than he could chew (and biting off even more in the progress), but has constantly been struggling to get back to his feet again.

Call me naive as long as you like, but I believed him.
Otherwise I wouldn't be defending him right now.

Some of this forum's users know me in person and know that I'm not the kind to mingle with thieves and liars, so maybe we can all sit back and wait for Ben to do any- and everything he can in order to fulfill his orders and maybe even get his feet into serious synth building and selling (in this order, Ben!).
It's about all we can do, right?

Cheers,
Bert
construct09
lol
Nuuj
Russian Roulette SMACK! Nutter! Wow! Peter Grenader cookie?!?
BugBrand
While it seems positive to hear words from Ben (and Bert), I'm not at all surprised that people still experiencing fallout will take these words with mountains of salt.

The only course to take care of the outstanding is ACTION.
(massive history of failed words)
And that's just to reach a standpoint where maybe the 'total crook asshole' badges may be ripped up - to establish some new trust, well, that seems almost impossible at this stage.
Feinstrom
@BugBrand: Correct. It's nothing more than a first step, but it IS a first step.

Cheers,
Bert
Tim Stinchcombe
I must apologize for my (sloppy) error:
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
And at Chimera Instruments, I see this:

http://chimerainstruments.com/products/vc100/

- don't recall seeing that before, so does it mean we have now moved from robotics -> synthesizers -> 'electrophysiology research instrumentation', and a whole new target audience/marketplace...?!
as has been pointed out:
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
As for www.chimerainstruments.com - nothing to do with me. I maintain www.chimera-synthesis.com and it's directed to www.ichimera.com, this is my website.
- they are clearly unrelated. I had conflated 'Chimera Instruments LLC' with 'Chimera Instruments Ltd' (UK Company No. 08171461), which clearly is Ben Fisher.

Sorry for any confusion caused.

(When I saw 'LLC', it didn't ring sufficient alarm bells for me to check before posting.) I will edit my post above.

Tim
Tim Stinchcombe
Answered my own question...
Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
Makes me wonder whether there has been any change in all the outstanding CCJs (?).
...by downloading the report from the Registry Trust - the four Count Court Judgements against Chimera Synthesis, for £491, £1,746, £1,085 and £1,117, total £4,439, are indeed still outstanding.

Chimera Synthesis wrote:
I am well aware that it takes much more than that to re-build my reputation in the synthesizer business, and I sincerely ask you to judge me by my actual business in the near future.
I would suggest disbursing these judgements, so that they can very publicly be seen to be cleared, might be a good place to start...?
Chimera Synthesis
Tim,

On 20 Jan 2012 I was no longer the owner or could act as a Director of Chimera Synthesis Ltd (hereafter CSL). If I made a payment to attempt to clear an old CSL CCJ I would be 'favouring a creditor', which I am legally obliged not to do.

Any product that I ship (or refund) to an old CSL customer will be legally 'ex-gratia' Chimera Instruments Ltd (effectively a gift) - so to speak - I am purchasing good-will.

So even when an old CSL customer receives a bC16 or ex-gratia payment, they will technically still have an open order or claim against CSL.

EDIT: Just to clarify Chimera Synthesis Ltd (CSL) has no directors, shareholders, registered office, etc.. it will be 'struck off' automatically at some point in the future. It does legally exist still though.
coilsandco
'Actions speak louder than words' as they say.

I appreciate what you are saying Bert, but I've had far too many empty promises from Mr Fisher to be able to give much credence to his pronouncements.

Let us not forget that Mr Fisher has form in this regard

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.movies.production.sou nd/i-wFz1_yjD8

Lessons were not learned from the Fisher Robotics/Timeslate years - he carried exactly the same business practices with him into Chimera.

A first step this may be, but there is a very long road ahead.

Mr Fisher took people's money despite being fully aware he had no way of fulfilling their orders. This remains completely unacceptable behaviour.

Until such wrongs are put right (either full refunds or products delivered to all customers) then I'm afraid his words will ring hollow.
Feinstrom
You are right - no doubt about it!
Again: I can only hope that Ben has learnt his lesson by now, but after our long talk I think there is some reason for hope.
Let's wait together for his deeds!

BTW: Although it might be completely understandable and everyone has got the right to be angry at Ben (his behaviour was indeed intolerable, and he knows that!), I really don't like a lot of the tone in your Google groups link and also on this thread.
If we all could stop using the internet as an anonymous way to vent our anger way below our usual level of communication, many online conflicts wouldn't escalate the way they do...
That said, it's still Ben's fault, don't get me wrong!

Cheers,
Bert
felixer
Feinstrom wrote:
I think there is some reason for hope.
Let's wait together for his deeds!

If we all could stop using the internet as an anonymous way to vent our anger way below our usual level of communication, many online conflicts wouldn't escalate the way they do...

+1 thumbs up applause fwiw my bc6,8 & 9 are still alive&well. recently gigged with the 9 and it performed admirably ... ben always treated me well ... love the synths. just hope that things will work out right ...
now i'll shut up again (hides) Tinfoil Hat
Chimera Synthesis
Here is my cellphone number if anyone wishes to talk to me directly about anything, including past products, companies, problems, rants, etc...:

07515 872873 (+44 7515 872 873 from outside UK)

I have updated the website www.ichimera.com to show this also.

If it's engaged, switched off or I'm doing something (like driving or in a meeting) please leave a message (with contact details).

regards,

Ben Fisher
Chimera Instruments Ltd
ben@ichimera.com
opsysbug
Bah. Edit and forget it. I'm not getting into this again.

(mk5 aluminium unibody!! woah )
Regards.
rob.ocelot
opsysbug wrote:
Bah. Edit and forget it. I'm not getting into this again.

(mk5 aluminium unibody!! woah )
Regards.


Yeah. Go make fun of the people still waiting for Plan B modules instead. hihi
opsysbug
[quote="rob.ocelot"]
opsysbug wrote:
Bah. Edit and forget it. I'm not getting into this again.

(mk5 aluminium unibody!! woah )
Regards.[/q 8_) uote]

Yeah. Go make fun of the people still waiting for Plan B modules instead. hihi


Whoa. Still stuck in this thread man? Were you waiting for it to float back to the top?
Do you have like a Chimera thread notification or something? hmmm.....
Din' ya ever get any other gear? 8_)
Get on over there and get yourself some eurorack... It's motherfucking bacon yo
Dave Peck
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Hi, this is Ben Fisher (Chimera Synthesis),

after all the things that have happened in the past, I think I owe you an apology and an explanation:



No. What you owe people is money.

And the responsible way to go about settling these debts would have been for you to suck it up, go work for somebody else at a regular salaried job, and live well within your means so you could use a good portion of your paycheck every week to pay these people back until your debts had been paid. If you had done the responsibly thing, all of these people would have all been paid back already instead of just being lied to for years.

Trying to settle your long overdue debts by getting back into business for yourself again and taking new orders from customers is completely delusional because you clearly have no ability to successfully run your own company. And anyone who gives you money up front for such a venture is equally insane.
Feinstrom
Ben Fisher doesn't owe a lot of us money. He owes us synthesizers, because that's what we ordered.
Getting back into business is the only way to settle this matter, and actively seeking help (plus apologize and explain a few things) in doing so seems sensible.

We all know that Ben did actually work for another company (Dübreq, that's not a secret), and we all know about his bankruptcy - I don't know if he would have been able (or even allowed to) to pay back anyone's money during that time. And before his bankruptcy he was busy trying to save his business making a few stupid decisions, to which he admitted already.

I believe what Ben told me a few weeks ago, and what he wrote on this forum. Otherwise I wouldn't be defending him right now.

Some of us (me included) have been waiting for five or six years now, and instead of waiting for a bankrupt man to pay back our money we should wait for an able synth engineer to build us some synthesizers (and to pay the others by earning some money).
We won't forget what Ben has done in the past, and we will take every word he says with lots of salt.
But we won't give up our hope, and we can give him this last chance, can't we? It's OUR last chance to get anything back...

Cheers,
Bert
digital_steve
Can't believe I sold my BC16... regardless of all this shit going down, fuck that was a fun little piece of self-contained goodness.
construct09
Nah, A wise move, you can't get them repaired.
julien
digital_steve wrote:
Can't believe I sold my BC16... regardless of all this shit going down, fuck that was a fun little piece of self-contained goodness.


Got one for sale, pm me if you're interested Guinness ftw!
digital_steve
julien
See construct09's comment
Pase
Wow!
I read a bit of this thread and I'm wonderin' why this guy it's still around after years of stealin' people's money and repeatin' lies, it's unbelievable!
I feel sad for all the guys that lost time and $ with this thief.
Even if his devices are the best of the world I don't want nothing from a company so nasty.
Hope all people can have back what their money!
BugBrand
This crap-storm somehow stays in my mind.

An interesting parallel is how Peter Grenader did just about rescue his shitty situation (again, totally of his own making) by slowly working with some other people so that he wasn't just repeating the same problematic working habits.

Ben Fisher has sooooo clearly shown that he is utterly incompetent at running a business (and this is being kind in not calling him an outright crook). To suggest that he could again sell direct - simply laughable. ( & anyone who supports him by buying direct off him should be called out as a wrong-un -- I remember a few years ago that he was perfectly willing to sell things (or at least take money) while so many languished on the waiting lists)

But maybe no distro would want to rely on him? Who knows. Anyways, as I say, the history of Mr.Fisher is absolutely clear. And I can well understand why his ongoing 'humble' excuses now don't give any reassurance.
felixer
BugBrand wrote:
& anyone who supports him by buying direct off him should be called out as a wrong-un

errr ... you don't mean moi, doya? i found his website years ago, saw what was in stock, ordered/paid it and received me wares pronto. got a bc9 off a fellow wiggler. that went smooth too ... anything wrong with that?
Feinstrom wrote:
Ben Fisher doesn't owe a lot of us money. He owes us synthesizers, because that's what we ordered.
Getting back into business is the only way to settle this matter ...

right. now do you want your synth/money or not? if you keep hitting a man while he's on the ground at some point everybody loses ... you can read about that kind of stuff in the newspapers ...
opsysbug
felixer wrote:
BugBrand wrote:
& anyone who supports him by buying direct off him should be called out as a wrong-un

errr ... you don't mean moi, doya? i found his website years ago, saw what was in stock, ordered/paid it and received me wares pronto. got a bc9 off a fellow wiggler. that went smooth too ... anything wrong with that?
Feinstrom wrote:
Ben Fisher doesn't owe a lot of us money. He owes us synthesizers, because that's what we ordered.
Getting back into business is the only way to settle this matter ...

right. now do you want your synth/money or not? if you keep hitting a man while he's on the ground at some point everybody loses ... you can read about that kind of stuff in the newspapers ...


Yes!! Lets all send some cash to Ben for some of those (mk5 aluminium unibody!! woah ) synths that I'm sure will be available "shortly"
so he can PAY OFF everybody else! Brilliant.
mrbloor
Dave Peck wrote:
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Hi, this is Ben Fisher (Chimera Synthesis),

after all the things that have happened in the past, I think I owe you an apology and an explanation:



No. What you owe people is money.

And the responsible way to go about settling these debts would have been for you to suck it up, go work for somebody else at a regular salaried job, and live well within your means so you could use a good portion of your paycheck every week to pay these people back until your debts had been paid. If you had done the responsibly thing, all of these people would have all been paid back already instead of just being lied to for years.

Trying to settle your long overdue debts by getting back into business for yourself again and taking new orders from customers is completely delusional because you clearly have no ability to successfully run your own company. And anyone who gives you money up front for such a venture is equally insane.


This, I love you Dave Peck and I'm not ashamed to admit it openly in public thumbs up
Dave Peck
Feinstrom wrote:
Ben Fisher doesn't owe a lot of us money. He owes us synthesizers, because that's what we ordered.
Getting back into business is the only way to settle this matter...



That is no different than a compulsive gambler who gets into debt and thinks that borrowing more money and going back into the casino yet again to make things even worse is "the only way to settle this matter". The facts in the long history of this situation clearly reveal that it does not matter whether you WANT the synth. You aren't going to get it, for the same reasons that you never got it in the last five years. But hey, your choice.
opsysbug
Dave Peck wrote:
Feinstrom wrote:
Ben Fisher doesn't owe a lot of us money. He owes us synthesizers, because that's what we ordered.
Getting back into business is the only way to settle this matter...



That is no different than a compulsive gambler who gets into debt and thinks that borrowing more money and going back into the casino yet again to make things even worse is "the only way to settle this matter". The facts in the long history of this situation clearly reveal that it does not matter whether you WANT the synth. You aren't going to get it, for the same reasons that you never got it in the last five years. But hey, your choice.


This. Dave Peck rocks.
BugBrand
I was in no way referring to you Felixer.

I do think there is something wrong with actively selling while ignoring long standing debts, yes. I am surprised if you can't see why this behaviour would anger the people owed.

But I was referring more to future actions from Ben.
mrbloor
opsysbug wrote:
This. Dave Peck rocks.


I found him first, hands off
felixer
BugBrand wrote:
I am surprised if you can't see why this behaviour would anger the people owed.

i can see that. but i don't think it is the result of any 'evilness'. i don't believe in that sort of thing. i can see stupidity, overoptimism and just plain bad luck. and i can see it everywhere. it's not like this is a perfect world and ben fisher is the one ruining it just for laughs. he's not the green lantern ... (speaking of lantern's (hides) )

i've seen managers ruining two firms and still given the next project to fuck up.
i've seen bankers getting prizes for being topdog end up in jail a few years later. etc etc ...
sure, get 'a good job', 'work hard' and 'thus live happily', where did that fairytail come from? look at how much of your tax money goes down the drain. every year. compared to that ben fisher is a minor irritation ...
this whole (electronic) music thing thrives on individuals taking chances. sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. 'if you do not succed at once, just try&try again', 'flat on your face ... back in the race' and so on ...
hey, i'm not here to aggravate ... just hope that things will turn out right. even if it inevitably takes more time ... and the reason for that (if you must know) is that i'm still hoping he'll come out with some great gear. he's done it before ... he missed a lot of things but he did achieve a few good things too ...
jjsynth
Well I'm still waiting for two sequencers I've paid several years ago. These products weren't even finished, so I don't think I will ever see the money I've spent again. On the other hand, I was lucky to get the synths that I've ordered.
Fidgit
ben has an impressive track record of promises and announcements of things he will (eventually) do.
however, looking back at which of these announcements were actually done and fulfilled - that's a completely different story.
it's ridiculous and embarrassing how he comes up with new promises again and again. and still people fall for it.
opsysbug
Yes. Uses peoples passion to set them up over and over. Defended by the same people that always defended him. It's not "bad luck". It's long term, intelligent, thought out, and coldly calculated to take your cash for nothing.
Weird...because the synths and dreams of synths that he has are unique
and cool! Like Tom-if he was honest he could probably be doing pretty well.
But he can not work like that. Too busy scheming. And now again.
And strange to me is that those who defend him ONLY write about him here
and in other forums. Pretty much don't write about Buchla or Eurorack or Moog. Just about Chimera...weird. hmmm.....
hellohihowareyou
The correct thing to do would be for Ben to get a proper job for X period of time, save up the amount of money he owes people, pay them back, and then restart the business.

Trying to pay off old debts by selling new units to new customers is offensive and bad business.

I have wondered if he believes he is too good to use his obvious talents to get a proper job and make right with the community simply by settling his old debts.
hellohihowareyou
Also, the manufacturing costs on the outstanding units is surely less than the retail cost of the units. Doing a run of all outstanding units would solve this in the least expensive way possible and would be a big step in the right direction.
felixer
hellohihowareyou wrote:
get a proper job

where? at some bank? or maybe an ammunition factory? god man, don't be so hopelessly bourgeois ...
Risto Esquina
felixer wrote:
hellohihowareyou wrote:
get a proper job

where? at some bank? or maybe an ammunition factory? god man, don't be so hopelessly bourgeois ...



Stay classy.

hellohihowareyou
I can't think of anything more bourgeois than insisting that the only way he can make a living is by selling little boutique synthesizers from his own shop.

Bartender, landscaper, cashier all count as proper jobs in my opinion.

If he is too good for those, then he could do what I suggested in my second post and just build the synthesizers that people paid for years ago.

The production costs for those should be half the amount of what he owes people in refunds, but he would rather make the point that he isn't legally obliged to pay anyone back at this point.
Instead just stringing us all along for another year...
Nuuj
Why didn't the courts force Ben to sell the designs and manufacturing rights to his synths?
That could have provided a means for him to honestly settle at least some of his debts.

I think history has shown that Ben should give up his dream of owning his own synth manufacturing company and that he should try and get a job designing for a reputable synth maker, if that is what he wants to do with his time.
Another option for Ben to continue to contribute to the world of synthesis may be to go open source and design for the DIY community.

In all cases Ben should avoid selling things directly and should never again accept money for anything which can not be shipped immediately upon payment.
Chimera Synthesis
Our new factory address:

Chimera Instruments Ltd
Unit 1 Penny Corner
Farthing Road Industrial Estate
Ipswich
IP1 5AP

tel: 01473 742434 (+44 1473 742434)
mrbloor
I'm a firm believer in 'find something you enjoy doing and make a living at it', Ben if you seriously enjoy designing and making synths then carry on, however get someone else to sort the business side out, it's not your talent.
jabeoo1
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Our new factory address:

Chimera Instruments Ltd
Unit 1 Penny Corner
Farthing Road Industrial Estate
Ipswich
IP1 5AP

tel: 01473 742434 (+44 1473 742434)


d'oh!
Dave Peck
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Our new factory address:

Chimera Instruments Ltd
(SNIP)


Reality check :

The money you just spent on the rent for that space was not your money. You stole it from other people, and you should have given it back to them.

What don't you understand about the fact that you should repay your debts instead of repeatedly spending other people's money to pay for your own expenses?

What don't you understand about basic priorities?

I do not understand how you could possibly think that what you are doing is ethically acceptable.
BugBrand
It is depressing that the UK system somehow seems to allow Ben Fisher to take Chimera Synthesis Ltd to bankruptcy and yet simultaneously open Chimera Instruments Ltd.

Companies House Webcheck gives the following:

Quote:
Name & Registered Office:
CHIMERA SYNTHESIS LIMITED
UNIT 8 BROOKHOUSE BUSINESS PARK
BRUNEL ROAD
IPSWICH
SUFFOLK
UNITED KINGDOM
IP2 0EF
Company No. 06846252

Status: Dissolved 01/07/2014
Date of Incorporation: 13/03/2009

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
7487 - Other business activities
Accounting Reference Date: 31/03
Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due:
Last Return Made Up To: 13/03/2010
Next Return Due:
Mortgage: Number of charges: ( 0 outstanding / 0 satisfied / 0 part satisfied )
Last Members List: 13/03/2010
Previous Names:
No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.


Quote:
Name & Registered Office:
CHIMERA INSTRUMENTS LIMITED
SUITE 111
16 HIGH STREET
IPSWICH
SUFFOLK
ENGLAND
IP1 3JX
Company No. 08171461

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 07/08/2012

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
26511 - Manufacture of electronic measuring, testing etc. equipment, not for industrial process control
Accounting Reference Date: 31/12
Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due: 07/05/2014 OVERDUE
Last Return Made Up To: 07/08/2013
Next Return Due: 04/09/2014
Mortgage: Number of charges: ( 0 outstanding / 0 satisfied / 0 part satisfied )
Last Members List: 07/08/2013
Previous Names:
No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.


So, Ben, now that CSL is dissolved, where does that legally leave you?

You said on 2nd June
Quote:
At present Chimera Instruments Ltd (my company since 7th August 2012) are building 50 brand new bC16's (mk5 aluminium unibody) - the bulk of these are for those Chimera Synthesis Ltd customers who wished to maintain their old order, any excess units will be available for sale (and cash generated will be used to refund any cancelled orders). If there is demand I'll build another batch of bC16's after that. Also, I will offer a bC16 repair service when the new orders have been dispatched.

but then later also:
Quote:
On 20 Jan 2012 I was no longer the owner or could act as a Director of Chimera Synthesis Ltd (hereafter CSL). If I made a payment to attempt to clear an old CSL CCJ I would be 'favouring a creditor', which I am legally obliged not to do.

Any product that I ship (or refund) to an old CSL customer will be legally 'ex-gratia' Chimera Instruments Ltd (effectively a gift) - so to speak - I am purchasing good-will.

So even when an old CSL customer receives a bC16 or ex-gratia payment, they will technically still have an open order or claim against CSL.

EDIT: Just to clarify Chimera Synthesis Ltd (CSL) has no directors, shareholders, registered office, etc.. it will be 'struck off' automatically at some point in the future. It does legally exist still though.


Has anything changed now that CSL is dissolved? (or will be next week)
Nuuj
Hmm,

I wonder if any of the equipment from his old factory is in the new factory?
I would have thought all the equipment would have been sold off to pay creditors, no?
Chimera Synthesis
opsysbug wrote:

Yes!! Lets all send some cash to Ben for some of those (mk5 aluminium unibody!! woah ) synths that I'm sure will be available "shortly"
so he can PAY OFF everybody else! Brilliant.



opsysbug wrote:

It's long term, intelligent, thought out, and coldly calculated to take your cash for nothing. Weird...because the synths and dreams of synths that he has are unique and cool! Like Tom-if he was honest he could probably be doing pretty well. But he can not work like that. Too busy scheming. And now again.

Thank you at least for the compliment at least.

hellohihowareyou wrote:

The correct thing to do would be for Ben to get a proper job for X period of time, save up the amount of money he owes people, pay them back, and then restart the business.

Trying to pay off old debts by selling new units to new customers is offensive and bad business.

I have wondered if he believes he is too good to use his obvious talents to get a proper job and make right with the community simply by settling his old debts.

I'm sticking with my plan as outlined previously & what constitutes a proper job? We design & make things at CIL.

hellohihowareyou wrote:

Also, the manufacturing costs on the outstanding units is surely less than the retail cost of the units. Doing a run of all outstanding units would solve this in the least expensive way possible and would be a big step in the right direction.

Yes. The first batch will goto old CSL customers, any spare units or unwanted units will be made available.

Nuuj wrote:

Why didn't the courts force Ben to sell the designs and manufacturing rights to his synths?
That could have provided a means for him to honestly settle at least some of his debts.

I think history has shown that Ben should give up his dream of owning his own synth manufacturing company and that he should try and get a job designing for a reputable synth maker, if that is what he wants to do with his time.
Another option for Ben to continue to contribute to the world of synthesis may be to go open source and design for the DIY community.

In all cases Ben should avoid selling things directly and should never again accept money for anything which can not be shipped immediately upon payment.

I have no control of CSL (since 20 Jan 2012), you are confusing my personal debts (which being made bankrupt writes off) and any CSL debts - these are two separate legal entities.
"dreams of owning a synth manufacturing company" - never given up or will ever give up on this. To date no "reputable" synth company has been in-touch...

mrbloor wrote:

I'm a firm believer in 'find something you enjoy doing and make a living at it', Ben if you seriously enjoy designing and making synths then carry on, however get someone else to sort the business side out, it's not your talent.

I agree with the first part.

Dave Peck wrote:

Reality check :
The money you just spent on the rent for that space was not your money. You stole it from other people, and you should have given it back to them.
What don't you understand about the fact that you should repay your debts instead of repeatedly spending other people's money to pay for your own expenses?
What don't you understand about basic priorities?
I do not understand how you could possibly think that what you are doing is ethically acceptable.

CIL's money, not mine. As Director of CIL, I deemed it prudent to expand production for existing & future projects.
I have read the rest of your comments.

BugBrand wrote:

It is depressing that the UK system somehow seems to allow Ben Fisher to take Chimera Synthesis Ltd to bankruptcy and yet simultaneously open Chimera Instruments Ltd.

CSL never went bankrupt, I lost control off it on 20 Jan 2012 (personally made bankrupt). CIL was setup on 7 August 2012, after my bankruptcy ended (early discharge: 23 July 2012).

BugBrand wrote:

So, Ben, now that CSL is dissolved, where does that legally leave you?
Has anything changed now that CSL is dissolved? (or will be next week)

It makes no difference, my involvement with CSL ended on 20 Jan 2012.

Nuuj wrote:

I wonder if any of the equipment from his old factory is in the new factory?
I would have thought all the equipment would have been sold off to pay creditors, no?

All new or secondhand equipment.


I wrote to everyone with an outstanding bC16 order over the weekend with an update, and will be keeping them informed as production progresses. And shortly I'll be writing to SM16/bCX customers with an update.
Umcorps
mrbloor wrote:

Quote:
I'm a firm believer in 'find something you enjoy doing and make a living at it', Ben if you seriously enjoy designing and making synths then carry on, however get someone else to sort the business side out, it's not your talent.


Mr Fisher replied:

Quote:
I agree with the first part.




Until that changes, nothing changes. very frustrating
Dave Peck
Chimera Synthesis wrote:

(snip)

what constitutes a proper job?


In your case, that would have been any job that involves working for a steady pay check, which would have allowed you to pay back all of the money you took from people over a period of several years. You've had several years to figure out this basic concept of treating people fairly, and to give these people back their money. Don't play stupid. It's not rocket science.

A "proper job" for someone with your track record sure as hell does not involve yet another bogus "plan" to take even MORE money UP FRONT from even MORE people.
Chimera Synthesis
Of the emails I sent out on Saturday to old CSL bC16 customers 43% have replied so far, and of those 88% still want the bC16 rather than a refund.
Nuuj
Chimera Synthesis wrote:
Of the emails I sent out on Saturday to old CSL bC16 customers 43% have replied so far, and of those 88% still want the bC16 rather than a refund.


I'm guessing the 57% who haven't replied either thought the email was either a new scam or perhaps a joke.
Dave Peck
"Of the emails I sent out on Saturday to old CSL bC16 customers 43% have replied so far, and of those 88% still want the bC16 rather than a refund.
"

That's nothing more than rationalization and it doesn't excuse your actions.

The proper action would have still been to pay people back long ago. They would still have had the choice to buy a synth from you in the future if you ever actually had stock to sell, without you holding onto their money and preventing them from spending it elsewhere if they wanted to. Because it is THEIR money, not YOURS. This is obvious to anyone who is not going to great lengths to rationalize their own behavior.
Fidgit
maybe somebody just consistently confused a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment
with a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation
?! seriously, i just don't get it hihi
BugBrand
Fidgit wrote:
maybe somebody just consistently confused a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment
with a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation
?! :despair: :hihi:


I think it is YOU who is confused.
Multiple slates wiped clean by bankruptcy.
Convenient.

(there's a subtle joke in there about another of Ben's f'ed up work projects too)

Chimera Synthesis wrote:

opsysbug wrote: