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Serge Random Source = SSG + CGS Digital Noise??
 
 
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Author Serge Random Source = SSG + CGS Digital Noise??
nordlead
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Serge Random Source = SSG + CGS Digital Noise?? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm contemplating to build a custom panel in M-class format and one thing I'm missing in my Serge setup so far is the Noise / Random Source functionality (which I'm not really familiar with).
There seem to be 2 approaches in Serge land:

    (1) Random Source (like in Mayhem) which I understand is an SSG internally wired to a Noise Source (how exactly?)

    (2) SSG plus a Noise S&H mini section (Animal)

What i'd like to know is:

    - What's the practical difference between (1) and (2)? I guess 2 would give me more flexibility as it could be used like a normal SSG, but do I then miss out on something?

    - Can (1) and/or (2) be simply built by internally wiring a (CGS) SSG with a CGS Digital Noise and if so, how exactly would I do this. seriously, i just don't get it

Thanks for your input!

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dmitri
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I havnt built CGS Digital noise yet but , I know that CGS is planning on releasing the Serge Noise circuit & when that happens the internal wiring intricacies of the RVG module will probably be figured out & made public.

I believe that RVG functionality is all possible by patching the SSG with Noise or other modules So you are right about versatility of just having an SSG.

I am able to achieve an RVG patch using my SSG & patching it to sample a fast cycling VCO.

This link describes the patch:
http://www.serge-fans.com/wiz_SSG3.htm
It's peanut butter jelly time!

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zthee wrote:
"How to place the boards behind the panel is equally important as how the panel will look. You should be able to look at the front, turn it around and it should be just as pretty. I don't think you should leave the placement of the boards for "I'll solve that when I get to that part...". It should be thought of before."
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CLee
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

An RVG is indeed an SSG patched internally to a Serge Noise Source. If you only have 1 SSG you're better off just patching it up when you need it. I built a dedicated RVS because it was my second SSG and randomness is my personal creative crutch.
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CLee
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Here is the serge-fans.com link to patching up a RVG

http://www.serge-fans.com/wiz_SSG3.htm

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nordlead
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks for your help.

dmitri, I heard/read that a CGS is somewhere on the horizon but I'm too impatient to wait - I need to fill that hole in my rack ...

CLee, I already have one SSG in the Creature and thought it would be nice to sort of get the Mayhem functionality covered without using more than 2 columns (and maybe some noise jacks in between) - to get both the randomness and some noise. So a dedicated RVG would be a nice addition, but an additional SSG + mini noise would be fun too.

Excuse my ignorance - I read the SSG3 patch as well as any other text I could find but don't quite get my head wrapped around this - from what I understand you route an "S&H source" into the Stepped IN of the SSG, but I'm not sure what "S&H source" means - is this simply noise (pink / white / mix?) or rather some other signal generated by a S&H process? Since the Random Source has an "S&H SOURCE" and a "S&H Out" jack (apparently both outputs) I assume the latter. I guess this is the same question as what the S/H switch in the Animal sends to the SSG which I have not found a clear answer yet either.

_________________
Please use email (rather than PMs) to contact me - ralf (a) rh3.de - thanks!

paintings: http://rh3.de
sound: http://hoffmann.bandcamp.com/
Latest release: Serge Frequencies http://hoffmann.bandcamp.com/album/serge-frequencies
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CLee
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

By "S&H Source" I believe Serge meant a source to use, to feed to, a S&H module. It's a sort of Sawtooth wave modulated by noise and is Positive voltages only (not bi-polar). The Stepped Random (S&H OUT) is a S&H circuit internally wired to the S&H Source.

Also, I can't remember but you may need to use the Coupler Out that swings both pos & neg. to build a RVG. I only have CGS, not Serge SSGs, so someone else may need to clarify that.

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nordlead
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks a lot, CLee, that seems to make things quite a bit clearer thumbs up - sounds to me as if (one of the two) "RANDOM GATE" output(s) of the Digital Noise (CGS31) which Ken describes as "pseudo-random pulse train" should be sufficient to feed the SSG (..?)

According to the SSG3 patch I also understand that COUPLER should be wired both to SAMPLE of the Stepped side and IN of the Smooth side. I didn't notice that the CGS SSG provides for 2 Coupler outputs (H and G) - based on the color (red) I would guess that STS uses G (approx 0 to 5V swing), but I'll measure this on the Creature.

_________________
Please use email (rather than PMs) to contact me - ralf (a) rh3.de - thanks!

paintings: http://rh3.de
sound: http://hoffmann.bandcamp.com/
Latest release: Serge Frequencies http://hoffmann.bandcamp.com/album/serge-frequencies
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CLee
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Last Visit: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 990
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I forgot, Ken has hookup diagrams on his serge synth site. Here is the one for the RVG,

http://www.serge.synth.net/documents/kit/rvg.html

A great site to wander in if you haven't.

nordlead wrote:
sounds to me as if (one of the two) "RANDOM GATE" output(s) of the Digital Noise (CGS31) which Ken describes as "pseudo-random pulse train" should be sufficient to feed the SSG (..?)


No, that's similar to the output you'll get from the PULSE out of the RVG. You need a varying voltage as input, not a pulse train. Dmitri mentioned success with a VCO, that should work.

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