Muff's Modules & More

[megamaeng]

Hi there -

I'm new here but have been enjoying myself trying to absorb info. Honestly it's quite overwhelming and has only led to more questions! Sorry for the long winded post but I want to describe exactly what I'm looking for.

What I do:
I make sample based hip hop and I use an mpc3000 to sample and play into pro tools to record. Occasionally I'll sequence in the mpc but most of the time I play live into pro tools which I basically use as a tape machine. What I've been doing for a while has been sampling records of modular synths. Some recent records I've sampled have been Keith Fullerton Whitman, the Daphne Oram tapes, and Matt Carlson's Particle Language - general synth bleeping, blooping, and fx type sounds. I sample then chop them up in the mpc and then play the samples via the pads pitched with the 16 levels function and then edit and apply effects in Pro Tools. What I've been thinking is how it would be more fulfilling to makes these sounds myself to sample. I think my basic workflow would remain the same so I'm not looking for a huge system to take care of all my production needs.

What I'd like:
What I'm looking for is a small system that I can get into deeply. I may want to expand in the future but I'm more interested modules that have a wide range of applications that I can explore for awhile. I never had a modular synth before. The closest thing I had was an ms10. I actually don't have any synths at the moment and I'd rather not sample soft synths. I don't feel like I need effects modules as I have an assortment of guitar pedals and plugins like the soundtoys bundle that I like. Keyboard control would be nice but not a necessity because I can sample and pitch in the mpc, but I guess I need some way to trigger a gate. On that same token I don't think I need a sequencer in the modular. It would be great to be able to do bass sounds and sustained sounds but that's a lower priority to the bleeping and blooping and fx type sounds.

What I've looked into:
I recently put in a preorder for the Pittsburgh Foundation since I thought that would be great as a beginner. However, I'm wondering if the architecture and sounds would be not too different from a fixed monosynth I could get for cheaper. I've been enjoying some threads I've found that restricted themselves to 4 modules or so. In fact, there was a post by wetterberg that everyone seemed to think was great for a 4 module system. It consisted of:

1xZ3000.
1xuLFO
1xMaths
1xQMMG (filters AND vcas AND mixer)

So after all that, my questions are

1. Should I just get the Pittsburgh Foundation?
2. Should I build a small system like the one Wetterberg recommended (although it looks like some of the modules are unavailable) and if so, any recommendations?
3. Should I just get something like the minibrute and be happy with all my left over cash (though I don't know if it can do the bleeping and blooping)?
4. Forget all this and just keep sampling records?

I appreciate the help!

[dogoftears]

If u want to get really weird, really quick, start with some more esoteric modules. How about woggle bug, borg 1 filter, and an anti oscillator? Maybe throw in a synthwerks fsr to trigger shit. That set up alone should have u bleeping and blooping for a while! Throw in an envelator and youve got yrself a pretty unique starter synth for not that much money. Youll have random outs, random gates, clocked gates, slewed and stepped cvs, waveshaping, fm, low pass gate, multimode resonant filtering, and loads more. Later you can add a "regular" vca.

[Matos]

I started with a hertz donut, and Maths and sampled the duck out it. My friend is thinking of putting a small rig to sample, and I suggested a WMD gamma wave source, Maths, and a blue lantern polivoks clone as his starter set up. Lots of tones to be had from bleepd to screams, to the cries of of wounded goose.

[megamaeng]

Hey thanks dog and matos for the quick replies. I think both of you understand exactly what I'm trying to go for. So it seems like I should go the simple modular route but more esoteric than what I'll get in the Pittsburgh foundation. I'll definitely look into your recommendations and try to see how it all goes together.

[megamaeng]

Wow, those are some really interesting modules. It seems like if I'm smart about it I can put together a wide range of tonal possibilities from just a handful of modules. I'm more interested in the squelching and farting than the buzzing and glitching, and they seem mutually exclusive, but is there a combination that will give me all of that? That synthwerks fsr looks really interesting too! I had no idea that there were performance modules that I could rack up. It would be great for the system to be self contained, without having to hook up a keyboard or sequencer. It reminds me of Richard Devine's video on the slim phatty where he "plays" the osc select and octave buttons. I'm quite interested in that kind of control on a modular.

http://youtu.be/9z0FQ9HmPKI[/url]

[Matos]

Alot of squealching comes from a good filter Personally I love wave table oscillators. They can be rough or smooth, glitched or ethereal. The gamma is one of my favorites.

But there's and endless variety of vcos with a vast range of personalities. Bop around YouTube until you here a few that really grab you then come back for some more feedback.

[megamaeng]

Yeah I watched that gamma wave video a few times since you recommended it. Thank you for pointing me to wavetable oscillators, its definitely up my alley. I'm looking at the gamma, and I noticed the piston honda too. I suppose it's subjective but is the PH worth the extra $$? I noticed that it has an external input and expandability but not the effects of the gamma. The other oscillator I'm looking at is the Pittsburgh generator. It seems to bleep and fart pretty well but I'm wondering if it's limited compared to the wavetable options for a first oscillator. On that same note, the Anti Oscillator sounds crazy too! The choice in oscillator might be the most difficult...

I think the maths is the way to go for modulating. It seems to be highly recommended and versatile for what I'm trying to do. Anything else I should consider?

I like the idea of a random voltage generator like the wogglebug. Can this just go on its own or should I pair it with something like the synthwerks fsr or pressure points or a midi keyboard? Or should I look into pairing it with some sort of sequencer? Or could I get away with just getting something like the rene or pressure points without the wogglebug and "play" sequences live with variation?

After that I should be set once I choose a filter module right? I like the borg 1 that dogoftears suggested but I will research some more and come back for feedback.

I'm slowly getting a much better idea of what I need. Thanks all! I really appreciate the help

[laserpalace]

megamaeng
I'd recommend a sequencer and a quantizer it might save you a lot of time when sampling. You can sample a 4 - 8 note sequence without having to go note by note. The Rene is perfect because of the built in quantizer, but even the STG or Doepfer 160/161 combo would be great, especially if you are new to analog sequencing. A quantizer + noisering or wogglebug will get you there too, but with less control. The Borg is also another great choice because you get the option between LPG and filter. It's perfect if you are looking for those MS-10 squelches.

You might want to look into Expert Sleepers as well. I came from sampling and syncing was always kind of a pain, having a streamlined setup can save you a lot of time and headaches. Also you might want to check out the phonogene as well as ADDAC's .wav player if you want to carry over some of those sampling techniques into the modular realm. Good luck, listening to your record now, sounds great!

[drewtoothpaste]

Been listening to your album this morning and it's great, dude.

I make beats / rap (there's a link to my last album in my sig below) and I've owned a couple modular systems over the years. The MPC is great for controlling and recording/chopping modular.

The two ways I've used the modular in my beats are:

1. Set it to record and sample a minute or so of free playing/knob twisting and then chop it in the MPC and re-sequence.

2. Send MIDI notes from the MPC or a clock-locked sequencer to a converter, and tweak the modular in real-time along with the beat, straight into Pro Tools.

You can also send pulse samples or chopped rim/snare sounds to the 8 individual outs if you have those on the 3000 (not sure if you do, my 2500 has them though) and use those to trigger gates/envelopes. The individual outs send +9.4v max which is enough to trigger most systems' trigger inputs.

[amsonx]

I think that an ES3 or ES 4 with Silent Way can be a great complement for a small system : with this you can have a lot of modulation source in only 8hp.

[megamaeng]

Thanks for the tip laserpalace! I was just listening to some of your tracks on another thread (I recognized the avatar haha). Great stuff! I like the idea of a sequencer but I think I want to be able to control the length of the steps with rests as well and have a bit more control than analog sequencing. Maybe the pressure points is best because I can play it like a 4 note keyboard? Am I getting the concept of the module right? If so, and I can set the pitch and output other cvs per note with the knobs then it would be like my old sp1200 I loved so much (r.i.p ) I could also bypass sampling if I wanted and record directly into the DAW over a beat. Would I need a quantizer with that?

[laserpalace]

megamaeng
Thanks! Pressure points would be perfect for that. You can control gate length, pitch, and if you couple it with brains you can make it a 4 step sequencer. I would still recommend pairing it with a quantizer. I used to use the points for live performance and it was a pain keeping in tune, chain it to a quantizer and it's (near) perfect. Of course you could handle that with your sampler, but you might notice some dithering, maybe not with the MPC though.

If you are sending out pitch cv from your DAW then you won't need a quantizer, but I find them to be really handy, especially if you don't feel like dialing in notes on the computer always. The doepfer a-156 is a great quantizer.

[megamaeng]

Thanks for listening drewtoothpaste! I'll check out your album right now. I really appreciate the mpc centric tips. I was thinking method one where I record a bunch into PT and chop in there or mpc and resequence. I had no idea about using the mpc as a trigger. The 3000 has the individual outs. So is there anyway to use the mpc as a sequencer? Are there any modules that will take the 8 triggers and convert them to cv?

Really great advice! Gives me a lot more to think about.

amsonx - I hadn't really considered the silent ways stuff because I don't really like doing midi sequencing on the computer but I'll have to reconsider looking at the other options because it seems like it could take care of a lot of things. I do have a spare adat out of my soundcard.

Maybe there's some way to do the sequencing on the mpc going into the silent way stuff to the modular?

[Hainbach]

You should be able to use loud enough impulses from your MPC as a trigger. Many guys here are clocking via a Machinedrum.

If you are looking for far out stuff and great tones, don't miss out on Metasonix. Nothing sounds like the yellow.

[megamaeng]

Thanks for the til Hainbach - will look into metasonix. When you say clocking, does that mean setting tempos and triggering envelopes and such or is there a way for me to sequence directly with the mpc both note and length, or would I need a midi to cv converter. I'm not too concerned about sequencing, but would like a performance option. It would be great if there was something like the pressure points without the pads, that I could trigger with my mpc pads, and have knobs for frequency and length or gate on and off. Maybe I should use the search function for this haha

[laserpalace]

Someone else could chime in on this, but I'm sure something like a Kenton Pro Solo could do exactly that. Any Midi -> CV converter with a gate out should be able to take a trigger from the MPC and send it to an envelope or modulation source on a modular. That's essentially what hooking it up to a DAW does.

[megamaeng]

hmmmm yeah for that price I think I might want to just stick with the pressure points and quantizer idea and have the modular self contained. I also like the idea of setting pitch with the knobs as I got great stuff out of my sp1200 like that.

[laserpalace]

You could snag a Kenton Pro Solo MKII for fairly cheap ($200ish), I actually just sold mine. But I think having a contained modular is a blast. Once you learn the in's and out's something like Expert Sleepers could come in handy. I used to do a lot of hardware sampling but now I compose entirely in an analog fashion (808 + Modular). I love having the option to get everything perfectly synced without having to stare at a computer or trim invisible samples. I think modular systems are very similar and as expansive as sampling, at least that's my approach with it. Really digging your record! I've been needing something like this for a while now.

[jimmyambulance]

megamaeng! how's it going dude!? we played that show together with woody at the midway! hope i helped to give you the modular bug...

[megamaeng]

yo dinnersssssssss!!!!!

you certainly did man! I got a bunch of modular synths records and started sampling those after our show. As you can see I'm like a fish out of water with this stuff but hopefully I'll have something soon and we can play another show, modulars and sp's only haha