MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Filtrex; Success! (100% success!)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Oakley Sound Systems  
Author Filtrex; Success! (100% success!)
Paradigm X
Hi

Bit confused as to which switch to buy, on P7 of builders guide it says 4016 is used, but in BOM it says 4066. Must admit i cant find either of them on the schematic either, oops

:edit: found it on the schematics, its a 4016 yeah? If so i think theres a typo in the BOM.

edit2: looking into it, it seems they're almost interchangeable? I found this, HERE

Quote:
The 4016 and 4066 are both bilateral switches. By bilateral we mean that signals can go in both directions through the switch. Both have four SPST switches. Both share the same pinouts therefore they can be used to replace each other. The difference is that the 4016 has a higher internal resistance across the switch. This means a loss of signal fidelity. The 4016 is really meant for other types of switching and is not optimized for audio switching. The 4066 is much better for audio switching.


Hmm, reading the build guide i think its not switching audio. Would 4066 be OK then? Ive got a few of them stashed. Not a problem ordering, helping my understanding really.

Also, R51 is 36 ohms; is 33 or 39 ohms OK? Not a problem as im ordering loads of things anyway, just curious really. I see its attached to output 2.

I was posting late last night on phone so sorry about brevity. Id like to add this board is a joy to work with, really easy to solder, clear labelling, easy to find components (TL to BR) and very good build instructions. The construction guide and parts guide are also very helpful.

One final quick query, sorry, are the caps 2.5mm or 5mm spacing? It doesnt say in the BG, and the Parts guide says if not stated use 5mm. Just want to check. Ill measure it tonight if you dont see this, hopinh ot order all missing parts this afternoon if possible. smile


Many Thanks. Ben
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
Bit confused as to which switch to buy, on P7 of builders guide it says 4016 is used, but in BOM it says 4066.


Either will do. But I'll edit the Builder's Guide to make it less confusing. If you have a 4066 then use that - just make sure it is a 4066 and not a 74HC4066.

Paradigm X wrote:
Also, R51 is 36 ohms; is 33 or 39 ohms OK? Not a problem as im ordering loads of things anyway, just curious really.


Again either would do. That part of the circuit is a bit of a compromise really. Ideally, it should be 27R if the input to the 2K7 resistor has zero output impedance. It doesn't though - it's a pot so it's variable. So for R51 the exact value is moot. 33R, 36R or 39R are all worthy candidates.

Paradigm X wrote:
One final quick query, sorry, are the caps 2.5mm or 5mm spacing?


The ceramic and polyester caps are 2.5mm on that board. Newer Oakley boards use 2.5mm ceramics and 5mm polyesters.

As a complete aside and being niggly here...

A BOM is a full list of the components used to make a complete item. BOMs also contains things like solder, cleaning materials and tools used including any special jigs. Think of it as a list used by manufacturing to make the unit, and by purchasing to cost the item.

A parts list is the parts used in a sub-assembly, ie. stuffing a PCB. It tends to give only which parts go where and nothing else.

However, BOM is now being used interchangeably with parts list so I suppose I should get used it. So never mind the grumpy old man.

Please excuse me I believe there are some children on my lawn... hihi

Tony
Paradigm X
Many thanks Tony, appreciate it.

Ill get those bits ordered up and hopefully finish by the end of the week! Im amazed how quickly its going.

I thought 36r was an odd value so thought id ask. Must admit i still dont quite understand the stereo, 'ground-compensated' thing. Need to have another look/google. Since its going to be connected to an unbalanced patchbay im not sure quite how to progress.

TBH i only wrote BOM as its quicker to type... sorry ! Guinness ftw!
Paradigm X
And another one, grr, really sorry.

Think the pcb moutned switch parts i ordered are wrong, taken from the parts guide tho?

http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/1ms1t2b4m7re/switch-pcb-spdt-horiz/dp/ 9473297?Ntt=9473297

http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/1ms3t2b4m7re/switch-pcb-spdt-horiz/dp/ 9473300?Ntt=9473300

if so can you let me know the right ones, i need to amend order asap tho please.

confused as photo is generic so thought right, btu DPDT not SPST means wrong terminals?

Cheers

BEn
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:

http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/1ms1t2b4m7re/switch-pcb-spdt-horiz/dp/ 9473297?Ntt=9473297

http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/1ms3t2b4m7re/switch-pcb-spdt-horiz/dp/ 9473300?Ntt=9473300


Those parts should be the correct ones. The part numbers in the Guide should be correct.

But the photo on Farnell's page is wrong though. That does show a DPDT which would be the wrong part for the Filtrex. I wish they wouldn't do that.

Tony
Paradigm X
Edit - missed your reply, many thanks. Hopefully theyll be right when they get there.

Sorry, these things do confuse me. Those generic pictures are a pain.

Looks like I ordered a 4016 as well, anyway! d'oh! 41p down the drain! lol

Well, ive got 100% of everything bar the box itself now! Woohoo.

Many thanks for all your help tony.

Cheers, Ben
Paradigm X
Ok, well got almost all the bits now

Those switches were right, many thanks.

I accidentyl bought some comically small 1/8w 3k resistors. Are these ok out of interest? Bought some more off ebay.

And also bought 100 of the wrong transistors, BC182ls instead oif 549c. Rapid have discontinued the 549cs now FYI. Again got soe off ebay anyway..

Just ordering the final two parts and a case from ESR in NEwcastle now.

Amazed at how quick and easy this board is to work on, brilliant stuff.

Hopefully should have this finished soonish!

About the stereo out; bit confused tbh. If i connect it to a mono line in on my soundcard, is this right? Do i not need a stereo in to get the benefits? Or does a stereo cable, with two stereo plugs, plugged into a mono input still have the benefits?

Thanks, Ben
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
If i connect it to a mono line in on my soundcard, is this right? Do i not need a stereo in to get the benefits? Or does a stereo cable, with two stereo plugs, plugged into a mono input still have the benefits?


The filtrex uses a TRS output socket. Although this is same sort of socket as used on stereo headphones the filtrex's output is not stereo but mono. ie. the Filtrex is only a single channel device.

The reason the filtrex has a TRS output socket is because it's output can be treated as balanced. It's still mono though.

You can use either a standard single core mono jack lead (like you would from a vintage analogue synth) or a balanced 'twin core' jack lead (like you could from an item of pro-audio rack gear) to connect it to your soundcard. The latter just looks like an ordinary instrument cable but features a TRS plug on either end. Either type of cable will work. If using a balanced jack lead and if your soundcard has a balanced line input you'll be able to get the benefits of additional noise immunity.

Tony
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
Rapid have discontinued the 549cs now FYI.

I thought so until I discovered this.

It's the same part but with a different manufacturer.

Tony
Paradigm X
Ahh, i see its effectively balanced. So using a mono lead is fine too. Cool thanks. My patchbay is unbalanced but the line ins on my soundcard are balanced, ill leave it as a 'stereo' (TRS) socket then. Cheers.

BTW, are the 100 off BC182ls worth having lying around or returning? Not seen them in any other Oakley Parts Lists tbh but not checked them all.

Many thanks as always.

Cheers, Ben
Paradigm X
Ok, well all done now but the pots.

Need to chop some down, the ones from ESR are longer than the rapid ones. And somehow, unbelievably, ive lost my vice. Yup. hmmm..... cry It was in the garage with everything else..... very frustrating

Will report in when all finished!

Thanks, Ben
Paradigm X
One more quick query;

I was planning on using bananas for the CV and gate inputs, but suddenly thought;

Theyre metal, so wont inserting them short the cv to ground, via the 100ohm resistor to A0?

I guess i could use jacks but wanted to use bananas throughout modular for various reasons.

Or I could omit casing ground.

Unsure whats best option tbh.

Otherwise, case is now all drilled out, panel drilled and fits (!) - amazing for me really ! So tonight solder in the pots and jacks and see if it works

screaming goo yo

Thanks as always, Ben
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
I was planning on using bananas for the CV and gate inputs, but suddenly thought;

Theyre metal, so wont inserting them short the cv to ground, via the 100ohm resistor to A0?


Banana sockets usually have a plastic shroud around them to stop them from shorting against the panel. Quite often part of the shroud is like a big fat plastic washer that sits between the panel and securing nut.

You can buy some types of all metal banana socket that bolt directly to the panel. These are normally earthing 'posts' and you wouldn't normally use one of these for CV and audio connections.

I like banana leads they have several advantages over 1/4" jacks including cost and stackability. But they are not shielded (so they are noisier) and the sockets are not typically normalised. The latter is not so much a problem since being stackable normalising pathways can be easily replicated.

Metal cases should always be grounded internally whether using bananas or jack sockets.

Tony
Paradigm X
Thanks again Tony.

Ive got THESE.

Now until you wrote the above, i thought both parts of the plastic shield went on the outside of the panel, but its suddenly become obvious that half each go either side of the panel. d'oh! Thus insulating it!

Sorry, i am quite new at this. I hate asking 'stupid' questions. :( Thanks for all the help.

Chopping and filing down the pots took a lot longer than I thought. But got all pots and brackets in and soldered, rock solid. Just need to attach a few jacks tonight (and the LEDs, and the 100r to ground), then fingers crossed, hopefully have a working Filtrex! Very exciting my first analogue filter!

Cheers then, Ben
Paradigm X
hurrah!

basically works first time - sounds amazing!!! It's motherfucking bacon yo

Im pretty sure LFO depth isnt working tho... doesnt seem to do anything. Its a very complex beast tho, only played half an hour or so. the LFO can trigger the eg, and the led flash rate changes with the pot, so i think its probably the pot. got none in spare. I did measure all the pots before i put them in tho and worked then, so is there anything else i can look at first? (Ive rehit all the solder joints around there to no avail). Ill trying measuring it agin, in circuit but i understand that this often doesnt give a correct reading (?)

Also i had no green leds so hit on the brainwave (!) of putting in one of the bipolr ones the way round it goes green. But, again not sure if this is how it is supposed to operate, seems to go off when a trigger is 'heards' and on otherwise. Is this usual? Or maybe because i put the led in that way round? I can easily replace with a standard yellow or red one.

Finally i think there might be a typo, or im not understanding (entirely likely) but on p14 of the builders guide, for the TRS jack, it says connect both 2 and 1 to the sleeve - this doesnt make sense, i dont think, as you wouldnt then need a stereo socket, i assumed pin 2 goes to ring (the middle one). ?

anyway, wicked, just learning all about it. Its got an amazing overdrive, the filter types are great, really liking the envelope and ad/ar modes too. need to spend some time with it but sounding amazing on x0x already!

nice one, ben
Paradigm X
Right ok, ive swapped out the tl072 on lfo duties, and also swapped the 4066 for a 4016, just to see. neither made an noticable difference. Ive tried adjusting the BAL trimmer to both ends but no audible difference.

Got a horrible feeling the pots died. Going to be a bit of a pain to desolder that.

The pot measures infinity ohms between two legs and 140K between the other two, so not helpful really.

unless youve got any other thoughts, i think im going to have to order some more 50k lgo pots, idiot, knew i should have ordered some spares. Oh well, learning lesson.

Otherwise, very impressed, takes a while to get your head round it but a huge amount of textures available. the distortion is lovely, and theres a load of different 'pass' types, two types of band, and various other odd ones, with the mix as well, huge variation.

Nice one, thanks, Ben


edit - mp3 sample, pretty distorted, in a nice way hihi

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rsbtpv
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
... i assumed pin 2 goes to ring (the middle one)

Whoops. Sorry about that. Yep, it's a typo and you are quite correct assuming it is the ring connection and not the sleeve. I'll correct that and have a new version of the BG up shortly.

Paradigm X wrote:
Im pretty sure LFO depth isnt working tho...

Actually, before you go changing the pot check that you have the LFO signal on the middle tang of the waveform switch. Slow the LFO down and use your multimeter to monitor the voltage (with respect to ground). If it's working the reading should go haywire with the voltage going up and down. It might be worth checking that both waveforms can be selected.

If it is working try measuring the voltage on the middle pin of the LFO Depth pot. Turn the pot up and you should get the same wildly fluctuating readings. If not, the pot is busted - which is pretty unusual I might add but they can break near where the tang goes onto the brown bit at the bottom.

Paradigm X wrote:
Also i had no green leds so hit on the brainwave (!) of putting in one of the bipolr ones the way round it goes green. But, again not sure if this is how it is supposed to operate, seems to go off when a trigger is 'heards' and on otherwise. Is this usual?

Do you mean bi-colour? If so this is correct behaviour. The other colour won't come on unless the voltage across the LED device is reversed, ie. a bi-polar input voltage. The trig and peak LEDs are either off or on as they only have access to a positive only voltage.

Tony
Paradigm X
Cheers Tony as always, really wanted a second opinion before i desoldered that. Ill check em all out tonight. As i mentioned i measured all the pots before i soldered them in,.

This is a really cool unit. Since youre out of stock on a lot of the bits im interested in for a month or so, im going to wait a bit, and considering building a little monosynth with ADSR/VCA SVCO and Filtrex, when theyre all back in stock. Got enough parts for two of virtually everything on the filtrex, so itll be almost free ! lol With a bit of clever wiring, im also thinking it might be possible to make a stereo filtrex using the 'monosynth' as well... maybe (poss getting ahead of myself.

With all the waveforms on pots, itll be a 101 killer!

Your stuff is very easy to build, clear boards, great docs and the parts guide is unbelievably useful. Oh and sounds great too!

Ill get the deep equinoxe phaser in the meantime ... i assume this will fit in a 1u rack, with the switch to the side rather than above? Standard racks easier for now. Have to build a similar wall wart psu but built two so far, so should be easy enough.

Quote:
Do you mean bi-colour? If so this is correct behaviour. The other colour won't come on unless the voltage across the LED device is reversed, ie. a bi-polar input voltage. The trig and peak LEDs are either off or on as they only have access to a positive only voltage.

Tony


Edit : yes, sorry, wasnt clear, i figured out the led works with opposite polarity voltages (look ma im learnin!) but wasnt sure if it was off when the trig heard or on. All makes sense, thanks, and a good use of the spare bicolour led i had !

Many thanks, ill report back with what i discover tonight.

Cheers, Ben
Paradigm X
right, ok, so got the voltage as described on the switch (both tri (slow flutuations) and square(jumps) ) but nothing at all on pin 2 of the pot. sad banana

looks like my worst fear. Have to order a few more (inc spares). its the desoldering that worries me tbh. and the annoyance of cutting down the shaft, although practise makes perfect smile

Ive only tried it from the underside, have to take off all the knobs and the front panel and try and get at it from the top. not possible with panel. Assuming the worst, sadly, whats the best technique for desoldering the pot? i guess cut off the three legs and just desolder the bits? do i need to remove the bracket as well?

Its odd, i specifically measured them before soldering, and i was pretty quick - a while back i spent ages soldering a pot, and it was really hot, and was still ok.

Oh well.

Thanks again Ben
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
right, ok, so got the voltage as described on the switch (both tri (slow flutuations) and square(jumps) ) but nothing at all on pin 2 of the pot. sad banana

That does sound like the pot is broken.

I tend not to solder the pot bracket until I have tested the board. That way you only need to desolder the pot and not the bracket. Desoldering both is nigh on impossible and the best bet is to cut off the pot bracket first with a pair of side cutters.

For desoldering the pot I tend to put a whole load of fresh solder on the pot's pins. Then heat all three pins at once with the iron by rapidly moving the iron between them. Then once it's all hot enough you should be able to pull it out of the board. Watch out for hot solder splashes and don't do it on your best kitchen table.

Paradigm X wrote:
Since youre out of stock on a lot of the bits im interested in for a month or so, im going to wait a bit.

Although I try to keep all things in stock it is rare that this is so. I don't sell that many boards so I tend only to buy them in batches of twenty. So generally speaking the most I have of any one board is twenty. Which means if you wait to buy something that is currently out of stock you may find others that were originally in stock go suddenly out of stock.

My advice is generally to buy whatever you need now and then get the other stuff when it comes along.

Tony
Paradigm X
Sloblock (if you remember the old fry and laurie sketch!)

Sigh

Ok, well ive ordered 10 (!) new pots, will have to take off panel, knobs and have a more detailed look, once last attempt at resoldering, then have to remove. Ta

If i order a deep equinoxe i assume you can send me a spare pot bracket? Although i guess itll be fine minus one, just putting the washer in behind as descibred in build guide.

Thanks Tony, appreciate your helpful and quick responses.

Ben
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
If i order a deep equinoxe i assume you can send me a spare pot bracket?

It'll be on the house. Just remind me when you order the phaser otherwise I'll forget. thumbs up

Tony
Paradigm X
Thanks Tony, youre a gent.

Interestingly, ive just had my x0xb0x i built repaired, and the diagnosis was a few dry solder joints. He suggested my iron wasnt hot enough.

Ill give it one more go, just to be sure.

Cheers, Ben
Paradigm X
Hurray! Complete success after swapping out that pot. Used a spare washer at back so dont worry about bracket, no ways im taking all that apart again!

Thanks for all your help along the way, was pretty easy tho with the way its laid out and all the docs. Nice one, sounds amazing.

all boxed up and going in the rack when i get a mo. Out of interest im really happy with the cases from ESR, really good build quality, and pretty cheap, the panel by 'thebeast' fitted on perfectly with no hassle at all.

Cheers, Ben

Rockin' Banana!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Oakley Sound Systems  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group