Muff's Modules & More

sgnhh · Last edited by sgnhh on Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:27 pm; edited 12 times in total

update:

after playing with this more, I feel comfortable posting this sample.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/smokestacks/harvestman-double-andore-mirror-t est[/s]
http://snd.sc/AfqfHL

mirroring works as assumed (invert and offset). however, when i use mirroring i get a clicking noise in the envelope. not sure if this is normal behavior, going to email scott to find out.

in the sample, both sides of a DA are used. two identical VCO-2RM sine waves are being pitch and amplitude modulated by the DA. when mirroring is on, you can hear the clicking. i turn each side on and off throughout the sample. (note: this is not a retriggering issue... each sides EOD is triggering the other.)

old post:

"inverts the position of the envelope within its voltage range."

what does this mean? is it inverting and offsetting?

wmgaretjax · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:02 am Post subject:

i'm curious to know this as well...

suboptimal · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:09 am Post subject:

The more I think about the explanation the more confused I am.

It's an awesome feature.

I don't know what it is, but I know what it does. Actually, I don't even know that. Nevermind, let's wiggle.

sgnhh · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject:

i'll scope it on waveaudio whatever the mac plugin is tonight and see what the deal is.

sgnhh · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject:

updated with sample.

edit: redacting for now... i need to figure this out. the answer right now is yes that is what it does, however i am getting clicking on it.

sgnhh · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject:

all right, updated again, this time contacting scott.

governor blacksnake · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject:

This is normal behavior. The Double Andore's envelope is always between 0 and 8 volts. When the mirror input is high, the envelope starts at 8 volts and goes to 0. But, if the envelope is not currently running, the value at the output is always 0 volts even if mirror is active. So, if you start a new envelope while mirror is active, the value will immediately jump from 0 to 8 volts, probably causing some clicking depending on what parameter the envelope is modulating.

sgnhh · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject:

scott, thanks for responding to the email and addressing this. very helpful.

i decided to take another look at this and, unless i'm crazy (and i might be), i seem to be able to make it click and not click by doing nothing other than letting it cycle a few times.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/smokestacks/double-andore-test-2[/s]

each sides EOD is triggering the other side. the audio is coming from one side forced in mirror mode with a constant high gate from a PP. wave shapes are both 5.

i made comments on the track where i can hear noticeable clicking and then a lack of clicking. of course, since it's going from 0 to 8, the jump in amplitude is noticeable-- however, this seems to be something different than the noticeable "click."

your input on this would be really helpful. thanks!

governor blacksnake · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:53 pm Post subject:

The envelopes appear to be cycling normally there. Perhaps the "no click" events are where your audio input is near the zero crossing as the envelope voltage suddenly jumps - so there's little to no discontinuity in the audio signal as that fast jump is made. Remember - these envelopes go a lot faster than most so the "clickiness" can become an issue. The Waldorf Microwave II/XT user guide even recommended that the user use a non-zero attack value to eliminate clicks as its digital envelopes could go REALLY fast.

I'm doing some firmware work on that module now so I'll scope it in mirror mode just to make sure.

sgnhh · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:10 am Post subject:

i think i understand what you're saying regarding the zero crossing.

not sure if it will help, but here's a shot of my DA patched up. (so you can see the pot settings and whatnot.) thanks for being so fast to respond to this-- super appreciated.

sgnhh · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:52 am Post subject:

scott, could this be alleviated by triggering the sound source (vco) to reset at the same time as the env is triggered in mirror mode?

this solution was mentioned in this topic: http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53372

i guess my question is, if my sound source is triggered at the same time as the envelope in mirror mode, will the click be present? said another way, is the click the result of a non-zero crossing or the result of the env jumping from 0 to 8?

cannot test this at the moment , perhaps someone else can.

with that said, the clicking would still be present as the envelope falls to 8 volts then jumps to zero, because the source would not reset at that point.