Muff's Modules & More

sam

Hi,

I'm entering the Buchla synthesizer with a 258v.

My budget is tight and I'm hesitating between buying a 10, 12 or 18 space boat (that i'd definitely buy in the end) and grow from there waiting patiently to build a usable synth.
Or...not buying a big boat right now, build an enclosure myself but have at least a usable synth.

Yet, i still need a case of some sort.
The good thing is, i have a spare rack i can use, and i do have a spare Power One 0.8A power supply.
It can delivers a good stable + -15V once trimmed, i used it with 5U modules.
But i didn't seen on B&A website that you can buy a power distribution card and i'm not aware of DIY designs for this.

That's what i'd like to know, where to source Buchla power distribution board ?

And, i don't know if there is something critical in Buchla's designs that i'm not aware of in order to power Buchla modules.
Is it as simple as other modulars ?

Any help on this PDB will help to make my mind and would be appreciated.

NB: I bought eurorack rack years ago. I had wait almost a year before i can start to fill it with modules. I know i can do it again. Mr. Green

solaris

Bonjour,

buy the biggest boat or cabinet you may end up to use/fill...
IMHO, better to not mess with DIY power supplies.
I don't think B&A sells distro boards alone.

nrdvrgr · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:19 am Post subject:

>Is it as simple as other modulars ?

Yes. Plug and play.

You can´t plug the modules in backwards like in euro etc... dead simple!

sam · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:51 am Post subject:

Kent · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:04 am Post subject:

You are forgetting about the other busses on the board. There is more than than just +/-15V and ground.

I think that you might be able to buy the B&A Buss Boards, but I don't remember exactly on that. You could send them an email.

However, my advice is to simply go for the 18-panel boat. It'll save you money in the long run and spare you a lot of time and hassle.

sam · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:18 am Post subject:

ndkent · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:25 am Post subject:

my whole thought is if you are buying modules averaging US$1000 and up per module you should avoid wondering about DIY power solutions IMHO. What I mean is you should either know synth power and bussing well enough that you don't need to ask or else you are taking a risk with expensive modules probably still under warranty.

Different people gave different strategies for cases. While you might lose some money in shipping, generally Buchla or a third party will arrange a sale or exchange for a case thats too small.

legionhwp · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:38 am Post subject:

The Buchla buss and power distribution board system is rather unique and, if not complicated, at least complex. The only source for an official buss board that has those features is Buchla so you'll need to contact them.

If you are putting together a third party system of eardrill and verbos modules you do not need the full Buchla buss board and a good solid proper ps will be fine. I have a detailed post on the powered buss for third party 200e module on my blog http://synthandi.blogspot.com which might help.

The trick comes in if you are using Buchla 200e modules as well as it's never been clear if they require something else on the buss or the simple +/-/ gnd are enough for them to function. Obviously the presets would not be accessible but I don't know if there is something else a 200e piece needs to see outside of power. Again, you would need to check with Buchla.

Buying a $2k 18 cabinet for a potential handful of modules is overkill IMO. That said, you could buy a 2 space boat for official 200e modules and DIY any third party stuff at a reasonable entry fee.

Kent · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:31 am Post subject:

legionhwp · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:32 am Post subject:

I'd go along with this in anything BUT Buchla (and possibly serge - which is irrelevant anyway due to it's self contained panels).

Euro, frac. Sure. Folks buy a module for $150 and want a few more from $50-$100 on up. The buy in for another Buchla module is ten to fifteen times than. In the case of a filter 17 to 40 times that. Who is buying Buchla at that level on "impulse"? one Buchla module would buy enough euro to fill a small case. So yes, expandability in that makes sense but, as always, Buchla is an anomaly here and the same general rules don't apply IMO.

The difference between filling a 4 space case and an 18 space one is easily over $15,000, possibly $20+ if you get fancy. This guy said he is starting out and wants mostly to do DIY to save some $$. I can't imagine he's going to fill $15-20k worth of stuff in the next year.( If he is I also agree he shouldn't be skimping on an official ps and case).

The other data point where Buchla breaks the rules also works in his favor. If he buys a small case and Ps he can pretty much sell that for what he bought it for in a year (probably a week hihi

). No real risk starting small with a 200e system.

I understand the "room to grow" modular view. My studio is proof it is a valid point of view. thumbs up

But an 18hp case for a DIY starter? I respectfully have to suggest that is serious overkill.

All that said I do agree it makes sense to do things right the first time. If you're buying $2-4k of modules, pay $300-$600 and get the damn proper case and ps system with support. Granted $600 for a ps and case could buy you a complete mini modular in other formats but, well, that is a different argument. If this guy is set on buying a $1k mixer with no preset ability due to a lack of official buss system he must have some reason for wanting to do so. Otherwise why not buy a few cool Buchla only pieces and DIY the rest of the utility modules and really save?

[quote="Kent"]

MechaSeb · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:41 am Post subject:

I'm interested in knowing if B&A would sell PSU and buses stuffs apart from a proper case too. Most of the modules i'm building now will do not have the need of more specific voltage but still, the 200e lineup have some great modules i'd like to try one time or another. Also my 12 case is built and ready to receive modules and i don't feel the need to buy another "real B&A" one... Nothing wrong against Buchla's case though.

Ok i think it's time to drop a mail to Mr Buchla. thumbs up

franzschuier · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:48 am Post subject:

Mr Verbos sells busboards as far as I know. But if you ever want to use "e" functionality - No way around a proper B&A Boat.

I wonder, the one thing I find suprisingly "cheap" in the buchla world, are the boats - compared to a Euro case of the same quality.

igormpc · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject:

on www.buchla.com :
201e - 2 2-panel Powered Box $300
cheap if you want to buy eardrill modules to make a self-contained system.

OR

i would go
201e - 4 4-panel Powered Boat (rack ears included) $650
you can expand later with one or two 4-panel unpowered later for +$250 each.

sam · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject:

Thanks for your various point of views and informations, i have some stuff to think about. Now at least i can ask better questions to B&A.

Kaput · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject:

Here's a good thread:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16575

Someone who started off with one module... and got a lot from it.

I'm still looking to start something similar in the future. I'll see how the new Buchla company pans out.

Bricks · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject:

IIRC, Buchla 200e uses i2c for communication between modules (aka what makes presets possible) and that has specific requirements about transmission distance and so forth. The bus board could just be a bunch of traces like many other systems, or it could even have things like signal extenders for the communication protocol.

Anyway I don't know anything about what is actually going on in a Buchla, but just saying I wouldnt want to DIY something like that without a good understanding of the design.

decaying.sine · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject:

If you are not on electro-music, I'd recommend searching over there for PSU information too. I also, like Kent, seem to remember reading that someone has purchased a distro from B and A.

Here is some relevant info that will show you the Buchla supply is not very standard at all. Again, like others said, you'll be fine for those just needing +/- 15 and ground, but the supply is a sophisticated implementation within the 200e system.

The source of this information is cbm as noted on Aaron Lanterman's page.

"Buchla power connector standard
Power on a Buchla module is delivered from a dangling connector. There is a somewhere between a foot and a foot and a half of wire dangling from a module (strain relieved, of course) that terminates in an edac 306-010-500-102 connector.

1 Black: quiet ground 2 White: -15 3 Red: +15 4 Dark Green: +12 5 Orange: +5 6 Brown: noisy ground 7 polarizing key 8 Yellow: i2c clock 9 Green: i2c data 10 nc"

decaying.sine · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject:

I think the power supply is a CinCon switching variety.

*edit. Duh. I have one upstairs. It's a CinCon Model TR45A12 in my 6 panel boat. Datasheet below.

bwhittington · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject:

I started my system with a Verbos distro board. It's simple to assemble, and it would suit you well until you come to the point of buying a module with a preset manager. My total cost for power and a DIY case was about $60. As has been mentioned, B&A also offers a unlisted power solution that includes the control bus. No idea on costs.

Cheers,
Brian

sam · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the link Kaput.

Interesting, Bricks.
I learned Arduino boards can communicate thru I²C too.
Basically a master microchip (in 225e) sends variable clocks, data, ground to slaves (whatever "e" module). Eaaaaasy! (just kidding)

Decaying.sine i'm at electro-music but almost never post there, thanks this is useful.

AAhh bwhittington, that sounds definitely great. Thanks for chiming in here.