Muff's Modules & More

[bananeurysm]

EDIT 4.10.2013 - From now on I am taking all orders through tindie:
https://www.tindie.com/shops/jmej/808-kick-drum-clone-pcb/

Stock list is kept up to date on that site!

The PMs are a little much for me to keep up with - so an integrated ordering system makes it all much easier!

Please note that I am now charging $2usd for shipping anywhere in the world. Shipping rates went up and at the same time my post office started following the rules more often and charging me (the correct) rate. Ha.


Hey guys - I haven't posted for awhile, because trolling too much makes my backlog grow too fast. BUT- I have something some of you might want in your own personal backlogs.

I have about 40 pcbs of the final rev of my 808 kickdrum layout. It's basically the Roland circuit, with some minor changes to the trigger input (based on Eric Archer's website), and with the common mods incorporated. (A frequency pot, and the optional decay mod via a resistor value change)

I don't have the BOM online yet - but I'll throw it on my website soon, along with build notes. It's an easy/quick build, nice small pcb.

This is the first PCB I've offered, but it's been tested by a bunch of folks with lots of happy kickin finished projects out there. It's a double sided, very high quality board - fabbed in the US.

I'm selling them for $25 + $2 shipping anywhere in the world

AND you can see from my pics that I have a solid test bed for comparisons. It sounds legit and awesome.

[NS4W]

... but where's the audio demo?!

is cv for frequency an easy mod to this design? a tuned/playable 808 kick would be nice.

[revtor]

any crazy obscure old components needed??

[mome rath]

[bananeurysm]

You can use obscure transistors if you want.. but my bom and board indicate substitutions - and it absolutely sounds like my real 808. I should post up audio samples.. you're right. I'll get to that soon!

Adding a vactrol to control the frequency pot with CV would be trivial.. though I haven't done it. I DO however have some tiny vactrol pcbs I should maybe do a run of.

[mome rath]

interested in this but $25 is too rich for me

[Barcode]

Edit: After looking over it again.... I want one.

[obscurerobot]

What kind of power does it want? +9V?

[negativspace]

[keninverse]

I'll take one.

[Pfurmel]

If you can manage postage to Ireland, I'll buy one.

[darenager]

What are the power requirements for this? Looks like single supply? If so I'll take one, any plans to do the others? (snare, clap, hats etc?)

[ringstone]

[ringroad1]

[bananeurysm]

negativspace - thanks for the info! It sounds like I can stick to shipping included no matter the destination.

darenager - power.. the original schematic asks for +/-15 I believe.. but I (and a few others) have been powering them with 2 9 volt batteries (in a +/- configuration) and it works and sounds great!

I am planning on doing more drum modules, possibly from the 808 but I'm not sure. I'd like to do 606 hats - but haven't started on that. I have a 909 kick drum pcb that has a few issues I need to troubleshoot still. And I have a Simmons SDS3 project that's probably getting attention next. (Theres an electro-music forum thread that's probably deadish regarding that.) Anyone have any favorite clap circuits? (808 is obvious - but I bet there are more out there..)

mome rath and Barcode - sorry for the price - I'm trying to recoup the R&D that went into several runs/revs. Also using PCB fabs in the US is kinda pricey - but it's important to me to stick with it. (And high quality boards are also important!)

Eitherway - total parts cost with 1/4" jacks and pots ends up being around $15 - so it's still a pretty cheap project still!

[bananeurysm]

[ringroad1]

Good news on the 9v front, makes it more adaptable for diff power supplies.

If you're looking at other drum modules to do, I always wanted a little analogue Latin friend for my 606, so would fancy the congas, rim shot and cowbell from the 808 but I might be on my own there :-)

[negativspace]

The 808 rimshot is actually one of my favorite x0x sounds. And the cowbell's... well, distinct at least. I don't even remember the congas, which probably tells the whole story there. Still, I think it would be nice to see something other than kick/snare/hats for a change. (How about the 808 Cymbal?)

I think 606 hats would be great. I've always been partial to those, even when I had an 808 and 909 alongside my 2 606s. I don't need one as I still have a 606, but definitely an unsung circuit IMO and one that's not already out there. (Who am I kidding, I'd still probably build one.)

[ringstone]

BTW Ryk Miller's Liquid hihat is a great board for playing around with all sorts of 808/606 style hihat/cymbal sounds. I have a couple in my backlog to build up.

Cheers
Blair

[EMwhite]

Dumb question but is the Trig input compatible with a Vdrum Roland pad or is it more of modular synth square trigger?

And how much does the BOM total up to?

[Revok]

I would probably kill to get a Simmons Clap Trap type clap so I'm going to try to push you in that direction for the next project

[bananeurysm]

[bananeurysm]

Oh also - my mouser BOM with 1/4" jacks and alpha pots is about $15. I'm happy to share it with anyone who wants it.

[mckenic]

[Paradigm X]

[Pfurmel]

[L-1]

One for me pls.

[microfauna]

one please. pmd

[marvkaye]

One for me as well, please. I'll PM...

<m>

[NS4W]

[kollo]

I'll take one!

[bananeurysm]

Here's a link to my mouser bom for any who want it:

http://www.mouser.com:80/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=95 0b04d9fc

Let me know if that works for you...

[edit] I'm going to hold off another day or two to ship the first round. Didn't realize how fast people would come through with payments!

PM me if you haven't, and you want boards.

[bananeurysm]

UPDATE - I just shipped out boards to the list below. If you don't see your nick and wanted a board let me know! (Or if you paid and aren't on that list CERTAINLY let me know.. though there are a couple boards I shipped that I may not have connected Muff nicks for.)

I still have plenty of PCBs left if anyone else wants em!

Like I mentioned - this is my first time shipping pcbs, and I used standard USPS shipping across the board. If anything gets lost or damaged in transit - let me know, I'll gladly ship another board out.

The mouser bom in the above post should work out for building em up - coupled with the CAD drawing here: http://www.anestheticaudio.com/?page_id=153 to get a better look at the part labels. Let me know if you have any problems, questions - or suggestions for changes on future PCBs! And post finished pics!

aladan
barcode
bleeps
bsmith
jumunius
keniverse
L-1
marvkaye
mckenic
microfauna
nangu
obscurerobot
pfurmel
revok
ringroad1
tondyd
reve
sensing

[mckenic]

Thanks a million man!

Woo Hoo!

[decaying.sine]

Can you use the original Japanese transistors with your board. It sounds like you can from a previous post.

If so, I'd be interested in one PCB. Did I miss your paypal address? I'll PM you.

[emdot_ambient]

PM'd for 2

[dmix]

yes i want 2, pmed you

[Barcode]

Will you be making the snare / clap / ect in the future?

[Juxwl]

PM'd. Can't wait to replace my weak 606 BD with this!

Maybe we can all get together and design a front panel for these....

[darenager]

I PMed you but not heard back?

[bananeurysm]

[fate]

if i was good at making fronts id be all over this

[Barcode]

[sanders]

[jumunius]

Got mine, thanks Jesse! Teeny little bugger.

[ringstone]

[NS4W]

[tony d]

Got mine today.
Thanks so much Jesse!

[LektroiD]

A bit expensive... If I order 2, I'll be paying shipping twice for one package... Maybe I'll stagger my order to get my shipping value

[mckenic]

Just wanted to add my thanks! Got mine to Ireland this morning, tiny little fella

Thanks so much! please put me down for whatever you release next! Off to DL the BOM now

[marvkaye]

Got mine over the weekend, has to be the smallest one I've purchased (excepting pot chiclets, of course). Time to get out the magnifier and soldering iron. Woohoo!! Thanks, Jesse.

<marv>

[keninverse]

Mine came in today.

[bananeurysm]

Glad you guys are getting those boards! Yeah I definitely recommend referencing the cad file as you build - unless you've got a killer magnifying glass setup!

FYI I'll be shipping the second 'round' of orders tomorrow most likely.

Stoked to hear how you guys like these bangers!

One thing to note is you won't get any sound unless you're giving it accent. You may want to tie it high (to the + side of your supply) - or just supply a constant voltage from another module while you're testing.

[bananeurysm]

[Pfurmel]

Got mine yesterday, looking forward to hearing this in action.

[bananeurysm]

One quick build note:

This pcb is designed to include the classic decay mod that extends the possible decay time. If you follow the silkscreen for part placements your kick drum will end up with extended decay.

If you want the 'factory' decay settings - replace the 42.2k resistor with a 47k resistor.

(I'm putting this on my webpage as well)

[SMS303]

[bleeps]

Is anyone attempting to add VC over tuning?

[tony d]

Just built mine.I'm not sure as far as 808 comparison because i don't have one but i did have my wife yelling from across the house "your shaking all the damn dishes in the cabinet" so i guess that's good!
Very happy with it Jesse,thanks again man.

[bsmith]

got mine going yesterday - sounds killer - someone do a panel for this thing!!!
using the 2 batteries with ground tap now - anyone have any ideas for getting power into it in a tidy way in euro? we can stick a 3 pin header in there - and then what? thought about soldering a ribbon in but would like to find a cooler way.

[mckenic]

Audio or it didnt happen!

Ive not yet read the bom or anything so please forgive the stupid question - is it possible to put a pot or a switch in there for decay?

[bsmith]

there's a pot for decay - pots are for freq, tone, decay, and level.
can go pretty fuckin long. maybe will do a quicky demo tomorrow.

[mckenic]

Doh!

Thanks mate!

[tony d]

[tony d]

So a couple questions:

The output level seems to be a little low is anyone else experiencing this ?(peaking at -10db)

Also, how are you guys wiring the accent ? The way i have it right now is on a normally closed jack wired to the trig input so that i get a kick if there's no accent present but i can insert an accent,the only problem is then i only get a kick when an accent is present.Little boggled over this one so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for any input guys,
Tony

[ringroad1]

nuff respect to Jesse for getting this out, got mine on Tuesday, just got it going.

Running off +/-12v, and triggering from the tom outs on a 606, it sounds good, I don't have an 808 to compare it to directly, but it sounds like an 808 all right. I think I've built it up according to the BOM, only thing is I used a 43k resistor instead of the 42.2k, and combined two resistors to get 5.98k-ish instead of 5.9k.

The decay seems pretty twitchy, it's a fine line between a long delay and long ringing self-oscillating madness. I'm wondering if I'd be better off with the stock 47k instead of the mod 42.k/43k.

I had the same issue as Tony D - wiring a voltage divider up and sending about 6-7v into the accent by default made it work as expected.

[tony d]

Hey Ringroad,
Did you just tap off of the positive side of your supply to accent ? I'm just a little concerned of having a positive voltage getting sent to whatever i'm using to accent with which is why i didn't do that but maybe i don't need to worry about that?

Also, the decay on mine seems to work as expected.I'm definitely not getting any ringing, but i did just use Jesse's bom so i had all the exact parts he specified.

[ringroad1]

eek, yes I did. I dunno about voltage going to the trigger source - I guess I could use a diode to make it one way only?

also, are you on 9v or 12v?

Some discussion about stripboarding the 808 bass drum here:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37646&postorder=asc

[bananeurysm]

[tony d]

[ringroad1]

fwiw, 808 service manual says the trigger length is 1ms.

Jesse, does your circuit incorporate the snippet that Eric Archer called the "trigger glue"? (on his 808 clone page?)

[bananeurysm]

[ringroad1]

Here's some short demos of my build, just to show the difference between 12v and 15v.

12v:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/ringroad/808-kick-on-12v-4db[/s]

15v:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/ringroad/808-kick-on-15v-4db[/s]

Triggering from TR-606 trigger outs, TL072 swapped out for a JRC4558, not that I think that makes much difference. Didn't touch the controls of the 808 whilst I was recording and they're at the same relative level.

[ringstone]

BTW the 808 snare drum seems to be the circuit that is most sensitive to trigger length. Although Eric Archer's trigger trigger conditioning circuit does get it close to sounding like the real thing I didn't get 100% satisfaction with my clone until I started using Silent Way to trigger directly (without the conditioning circuit), so I could really fine-tune things. Using an ES-3 will give a good range of trigger voltages too.

Cheers
Blair

[bananeurysm]

[ringroad1]

Yep, hats off - just tried it again with two 9v batteries, and also with the 15v supply and it's not such a big difference between the two. There must be something up with my 12v. Which might explain a few other things.

Again, same settings, not touching volume or anything, accent on everything.

9v:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/ringroad/808-9v-mono[/s]

15v
[s]http://soundcloud.com/ringroad/808-15v-mono[/s]

There's still some slight variation in kicks in either case, but I'd expect that.

I've been trawling through the sdiy archives, and Colin Fraser says...

[bananeurysm]

Ahh cool. Thanks for following up!

I wonder if what I was noticing re: decay responses differing between builds was directly related to wire length on the tune pot.

[emdot_ambient]

Just got mine!

FYI, though, the mounting holes are too close to some of the components for me to use the standoffs I typically use (4-40 aluminum hex). The standoffs will touch the solder points and create shorts...probably will have to get some nylon ones or something smaller in diameter.

[emdot_ambient]

...Also...the three 0.1uF caps on the BOM are no longer stocked.

581-SR201E104MARTR1 would probably do the job.



[Edit] Looking over the mouser BOM a bit more...

Which controls to these pots correspond to:
A 100K
B 500K
B 100K
A 10K

Why did you use stereo jacks?

The 220 ohms resistors is rated to 1/2watt...not important? 1/4watt fine? I assume you just chose this one 'cause it was the cheapest.

[jumunius]

[bananeurysm]

[marvkaye]

What's the deal with the accent input??? It's been suggested that it needs to be a constant voltage tapped off a divider from the power source... I would have thought it should respond to a second trigger that causes that particular beat to "accent", thus the name. Am I missing something here? How does it work, really??

<marv>

[bananeurysm]

You can think of the accent as a VC input for amplitude.. offset from 0.

So by default, the thing will make no sound. If you're feeding it a constant voltage - it will sound when triggered, at an amplitude directly related to the accent voltage.

I should look at the 808 schematics, but I assume the 'accent' pot is a voltage divider between the power supply and the steps. By default (or with the pot at 0), some voltage gets applied to the accent input on all steps. When you turn the pot up.. more voltage gets applied to steps that have 'accent' selected.

Make sense?

[marvkaye]

[emdot_ambient]

[marvkaye]

The complete TR808 schematic is pretty much over my head, although it looks to me like the Level pot is setup to adjust AC only (I'd have thought that would be a log taper, not linear... shows you what I know ) Anyway, way back on another page of the schematic it does show that the Accent pot is a voltage divider from +5 to +15, and while I'm at a total loss to suggest what spits out of the circuitry it controls and winds up being the Accent signal, I suspect it's some range of positive voltage that is proportional to what is set on that pot. Also, since the Accent contributes to everything in the TR808, it looks like a separate pot for it in our BD application is most likely in order. All that being said, I guess it makes sense to use it as the base voltage for a CV input to the Accent jack so now we need to determine the proper range of voltages for it so it doesn't get overdriven. Or maybe not???

<marv>

[ringroad1]

[bananeurysm]

It doesn't really make sense to put an accent pot on the pcb as there is already a volume pot. It makes more sense to me to consider using a sequencer row for accent controls. Or you could always just feed it an attenuated LFO or something.

The way it works on the 808/606/707 is as a global volume offset applied on specific steps. So you could make your downbeats louder for example. Personally I find it most useful for programming hats. Throwing in accents here and there makes them nice and dynamic. If you have a bunch of drum modules, you could certainly mult out from a CV sequencer row and do global accents that way.

I believe the 909 has per voice accent controls. You could simulate that with a step sequencer if you wanted.. you'd just need to dedicate a CV row to every drum sound. Maybe overkill.

I don't usually use the accent on mine - I just tie it high and trigger the module with my drum machines.. or cmos clock divider.

When I get closer to having a modular drum machine I'll probably use it.

[marvkaye]

I like the idea of using a sequencer row to control accented beats, it make a lot of sense to me. So do I need to add a non-inverting summing amp between the accent jack and accent input?? One of the inputs provide the base (non-accented) voltage that lets the unit have an output, the second input would come from the accent jack and add the CV from the sequencer. For stronger accent just turn up the CV.

After looking closely at the PCB it appears that the accent pad on the PCB goes directly to non-inverting input B of the TL072, so could it be as simple as connecting that to the common end of a pair of (10K?... 100K?) resistors in parallel, with 5V to the other end one of them as the base voltage, and the signal from the accent jack to the other one? That would be a pretty simple solution.

<marv>

[marvkaye]

On another note... I noticed that this PCB calls for one 1N914 and two 1N4148 diodes. In all the discussions I've read, the consensus of contributors seems to be that these components are interchangeable. AAMOF, the Fairchild datasheet is the same one for both of these guys... So now I'm curious... why, on this board, are they both specified?

<marv>

[jumunius]

[bananeurysm]

Not numerology, just oversight. The original roland schematic calls for a 1N4148 diode, and I mimicked that exactly, Eric Archer's 'trigger glue' calls for a 1N914 diode, and I mimicked that exactly.

If I do another rev, maybe I'll make them both the same. I know folks have built it with 2 1N4148s.

marvkaye I would post the schematic, but I'm not sure if it would infringe on any patents - as it's basically redrawn from the service manual. It is readily available/easy to find on the web though. Do share any developments/modifications you might make!

[meatcliff]

got if fast thanks!

[reve]

EDIT: nevermind. But I can verify that the original transistors work without other component changes... at least for the tone generator. I've got something hosed in the output buffer.

EDIT OF EDITED EDIT: Again, nevermind. Bad T5. What the hell? I've never had a bad transistor.

In summary, SOUNDS TOTES AWESOME.

[reve]

So... was there a consensus on accent wiring for those of us forsaking the accent input or normalling a jack? I saw people suggest voltage dividers, etc.

[redlobsta]

My 808 is working but is clicking at every time it is triggered anyone else having this problem? I've double checked my wiring
Also my tone pot doesn't seem to do anything, what is it supposed to sound like as I change the tone pot?

[tony d]

The tone pot will add what you may be hearing as a click? You should just get a smooth kick with no sound on the high end with the tone knob all the way down. Maybe check the wiring 1 more time on your tone pot.

[frequencycentral]

Any PCBs left? Or failing that, anyone have a spare?

[Juxwl]

Anyone done a panel design for this? Clarke68?

[mckenic]

Im sorry to be a PITA but Im hoping some of you good folks that have your 808 PCB running might help a fella out please?

I'm not getting any sound - I had to make some substitutions -

5.9K - I used - 5.6k.
1N914 - I used 1N4148 for the 3 diodes.
TL072IP - I used - TL072CN (KFL838).

In the pic below (for the accent, trig & out) is pad 2 indicated, the ground and pad one goes to the signal of the jack please?

On the opamp - Im getting 11.9v on pin4 and -11.9 on pin8 but nothing else on any other pins.



I have + power pin going to +12v, the Ground to ground and the - power pin going to -12v on a ribbon cable going to my Doepfer DIY psu. Reading +12v at the + power point on the PCB and -11.9v at the - point on the PCB.

Using a Doepfer A-145 square into uStep. uStep set to 8 steps with output A being triggered on every step and output B triggered on every 2nd step. uStep A is going to Trig In and B to Acc.

I wonder please if anyone might have some points I could probe and what I should be getting please?

Thank you Wigglers for any help - it will be GREATLY appreciated... sorry for being a PITA!

Dave

No magic smoke

[jumunius]

[jumunius]

As an afterthought, if you reverse your multimeter probes, you will get voltage readings with +/- values flipped. The one time I did this and didn't realize what I'd done, I remounted my power header in reverse and plugged it back in before thinking through what might have happened. I fried at least one IC, maybe more (haven't been back to troubleshoot further since I don't have replacement chips on hand).

So in case it needs being said, don't be rash when messing with polarity. Don't reverse polarity of your power connector unless you really know that's the issue. In fact, it might be safest to do some spot checking (check that your TL072 is mounted in the right direction, etc) before even powering on again.

[mckenic]

Thank you VERY, VERY much jumunius!

I'm going to do some troubleshooting this afternoon - as you said, double checking polarity (THINK Im ok but never the less!), the mounting of the power connection, the diodes, the TL072 and after all that switch the ground/signal on my jacks just to check!

Thank you very much for your ideas! REALLY very much appreciated! I will of course post back in a bit!

[mckenic]

Please dont laugh... on 2nd thoughts do if you want I dont mind as - ITS WORKING! Woo Hoo!

Friggin had my pots wired backwards - I feel like an idiot!!!

But the GREAT thing is I didnt fry anything or do anything silly
There are a few loose connections as when I jiggle pots I get ground hum and drop-outs but that is sortable.

Its a little low volume wise, is that related to the 'accent'? Can I just run 2 wires from level or the 12v to the 'accent' as currently (sic) I wont be using accent?

I used the Factory decay 47k as that is what I had to hand - how low can I go here anyone know please? I'd love to have the choice to have it as is now but also to go squealing crazy self-oscillation...

Anyway - thank you all for putting up with me! Im bloomin THRILLED!

WOO HOO!

[jumunius]

[bsmith]

I don't have mine paneled, but have checked it out with 12v supply running the +12 over to the accent in as an offset to keep it up and it worked fine. I guess what might work would be running the voltage over to the normalling post on the accent jack (on a switched mono jack), so if you wanted to use something besides the +12 it would shut off on the accent in as soon as something was plugged into that jack.

[mckenic]

... and I have Erthenvar 'switching' jacks that I had right EXCEPT for the output - sending to the switch pin instead of to the signal pin!

Thanks jumunius!

Will tidy this up and ask questions then! Thanks mate!

[mckenic]

Thank you bsmith!

Will try that and report back!

[tony d]

[Emalot]

My PCB arrived!!

[mckenic]

Just a quick post back to say THANK YOU!

Tying the 12v to accent works wonderfully and Im 100% up and running Woo Hoo! Im still new enough to diy and have enough gaps in my knowledge to be surprised and delighted when things work out so well!

Thanks for all the help and patience

[mckenic]

Woo Hoo!

I learned SO MUCH doing this project - thank you very, very much bananeurysm!!!

I learned, pots are awkward to put on a panel! I have some ABS so decided to do a panel. Its JUST that little bit skinny but its ok as the kick will live to the left of my case where there is a little 1hp or so gap - this will allow for the pots which had to be mounted sideways

Lots of little silly things but MAN! Im a happy bunny! Woo Hoo!

[tony d]

Awesome man !

I've definitely been enjoying mine.As i said before i don't have an 808 to make any comparisons (nor do i care) but i really think it sounds great.

[mckenic]

Bring on the next one! Cowbell? Rimshot? Claves?

[bananeurysm]

Rad! Just checked in after not watching for forum for awhile. Awesome to see so many thumpin drums out there!

Either the 909BD or the Simmons SDS3 (general purpose drum) will be next. I don't have an eta - but I'm working on em both. Troubleshooting my 909BD pcb, and prototyping the SDS3.

808 Clap, rimshot, and 606 hats are all on my wishlist. But I'm getting WAY ahead of myself there.

Also reve - I don't know if anyone really replied to your questions about 'accent' wiring consensus. But afaik most people have been building these with the accent simply tied high. You can always remove the wire if you wanna sequence volume later.

<edit> Also I do still have some PCBs left. Shoot me a PM if you still want some.

[Emalot]

I just finished my 808 Kick drum module, and it's a really nice module!!!
I have TR606 and i love it but Kick is really soft on this. Now i have a BIG 808 kick and the mix of both is

[bananeurysm]

Rad! Glad it's workin out! That was exactly my setup when I first designed the board. (606 + 808kick module).. I've since gotten an 808 - but I'm thinking about going back to the 606 + 808kick for gigging. . .

[negativspace]

606 + 808 kick, check! (TipTop's; I haven't built the board I got from you yet.) I always preferred the 606's hats to the 808s, although the 808 has a much better ride.

I've got a DrumDokta in there too, tons of fun with percussion in that little combo.

[mono-poly]

Do you got pcbs avaible?

Sds3 clone would be awesome!

[julian]

I am thinking about making this panel -



Would anyone else be interested if i do?

One thing im not sure of though -

The design is for myself - i am not sure about using the word 'Roland' on panels for other people?

[mckenic]

Hell Yes!

[loydb]

[Juxwl]

[bananeurysm]

[julian]

[bananeurysm]

I think ppl should post in this thread if they want to order panels from you.. yes it clutters the thread - but it also makes it more visible - and thus more likely to be found by interested parties. I'm stoked on what you're offering!

[julian]

Ive just been messing about with a 5u version.

To make a 5u panel with minimal line work, rather like the Oakley modules, would be cheap - no more expensive than the euro version above.

This is because, although theres a load more metal involved, and it would take longer to mill, the 5u panels normaly just use single stroke fonts, and normally just white infill. In short, the metal and the milling would be more expensive, but the engraving would be cheaper, so, at the end of it all, itlld equal the euro panel, with its fancier engravng and adiitional line work / colours.


So, if there's interest, i can do a 'minimalist' Oakley style 5u panel, or, if people would like, i can do a fancier 5u panel, more like the euro panel - but then a) itlld cost a little more, and b) it would stand out more in the traditional all black/white motm style systems (which some people may like, and others may not like?)

This is an example of an Oakley VCO, to give an idea of the 'minimalist' styling (which conforms to MOTM component placing)




Or i can do the same but with fancier text, and colours?

Im not making the 5u panels for myself, so if people want them, ill make them however people decide they want them : )

[julian]

Ill try and do some screen grabs later, however -

5u panel in Oakley 'minimalist' style - GBP 20
5u panel in mutistroke, with colour and line work (like the euro pane screen grab) - GBP 26

Im happy to make the 'minimalist' one in 1-offs as i can run it with other similar panels.

Im happy to make the euro panel in whatever numbers, so long as i make them on the same run as when i make my own panels (so it doesnt matter how many people want them, as ill be doinig my own anyhow - but the others need to be done at the same time, else they would work out a fair amount more expensive)

Im happy to make the more complex 5u panels, but, the GBP 26 price would require a few orders, as its not realy worth grinding the custom cutters that would be required for a 1-off (or at least not at the GBP 26 price)

Ill try and get some screen grabs of all of them, and update the thread.

[thebot]

I'll have one of the 5U panels Julian - whichever, I'm easy. If there's numbers needed for the more complicated one I'll spring for that, if not happy with the simpler one.

Cheers!

[amalthea]

[Paradigm X]

[julian]

[mono-poly]

I'd like a panel

[julian]

[Paradigm X]

i was actually (quickly due to time) agreeing with thebot- prefer the 5u £26 bells and whistles version but either would be fine, depending on numbers, what others are doing too.

Cheers.

would making some, say, oakley panels at the same time be helpful, in terms of cost ? i need a few making up anyway...

cheers

[julian]

[mono-poly]

[Paradigm X]

[ringstone]

I really preferred the 808 BD panel that Bleeps designed... what happened to that?

Cheers
Blair

[julian]

[ringstone]

[julian]

Ahh... Ok!

(sometimes i dont see the wood for the trees)

I think, at some point, ill be cutting them also, so, if you want one of those, keep an eye on the other thread too.

They will work out a bit cheaper than the black ones, but you may have to wait longer for them (due to the run size there).

Id have mentioned it here, had i have realised!

(note: bleeps has not supplied the vector art for them just yet - but then i havent realy asked hard for anything yet either!)

[ringstone]

No worries, I was just confused by the fact there were two designs. Bleeps has cleared this up in the other thread anyway

Cheers
Blair

[mOBiTh]

Julian I'm in for two panels please. With Roland is fine by me!

Cheers

Matt

[Emalot]

hello,
Has someone made a MODS to have a longer decay??
I guess I need to change the pot of decay (for now I have a 500K Lin) but there maybe other things to do?
thank you

EDIT SORRY, i just read in http://www.anestheticaudio.com/?page_id=153 the mods to have more Decay! THX

REEDIT:
I change the 42,2K Resistor and put a 39K and the result is not very well, the signal is continious when the Decay Pots is more than 3/4.
Which value do you use to have more decay than with 42,2K??

[Mongo1]

I'd probably like to get a pair of these, but wondered if anyone would be kind enough to do a more comprehensive audio demo. You know, tweak some knobs and stuff???

Thanks
Gary

[ringstone]

[julian]

just a brief note -

as some of you know, we are in the process of moving location, and do not currently have as good access to the machinery as id like.

i have some time on the cutting machines next week, and may cut the black euro 808 panels then.

so, if anyone wanting them, and has not got their name on the list a few posts up, then speak now, or forever...

[Paradigm X]

since it looks liek only me and thebot are after a 5u one, can we go basic 'oakley' style and get a few more oakley panels done at the same time if thats cheaper/easier/cheaper and easier?

That would be awesome if no one else minds

Noice juan.

[boothnavy]

[julian]

[julian]

[tony d]

Just in case you were just sitting there wondering what this kick sounds like through a distortion pedal, well here you go:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/planespace/808-kick-clone-distortion[/s]

[boothnavy]

[strategy]

Bananeurysm can confirm that I got my kick drum up and rocking as he was at my show here in Portland Saturday nite

But there is a weird issue with my build maybe someone on the forum knowledgeable about 606 can help out.

My TR606 triggers don't seem to trigger the 808 kick drum. For others this has not been the case. I'm trying to figure out if it's an issue with my build or my 606. I still need to measure the outgoing trigger voltages. I am thinking it's possible the voltage is not high enough, or maybe there's a weird grounding issue between the two. Triggering 808 kick drum from my Frostwave sequencer sounds great without any problems.

Any help/advice appreciated!

Strategy

[Juxwl]

[robot909]

Are the schematics for this pcb available to look at?
I received the pcb and waiting for the components. Would love to check out the schematics for learning purposes.

thank you!

[mOBiTh]

my vote goes for a classy 808 or 909 rimshot with nice modulation possibilities!

[defenestration]

so got mine kickin but having some issues with decay and level pots, perhaps I wired them up wrong?

the center of the decay pot is actually the longest decay and either extreme brings to me to a very short decay

the level pot has its loudest point almost all the way fully clockwise, but then as I reach the extreme it cuts out

here is an audio demo, I start messing with the decay and level after the halfway mark http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11904126/tweaking-1.wav

dunno what to look for, anyone have suggestions? already replaced the level + decay pots, might try wiring up test leads for the decay resistor and trying some values out to see what happens

currently testing on 9v batteries

[robot909]

Finally got to work on the PCB. It is populated with components. Next, I'll think of a way to interface the pots and jacks. I plan on building a mounting frame for the pcb, made from brass. But before, I'll test it out make sure it works. Going to to make it look good!

Here is some pcb porn...

oh, btw. This is a challenge to solder, not for a beginner.

[strategy]

[obscurerobot]

It looks like http://www.anestheticaudio.com/ has been hacked.

[robot909]

Here is some of my progress building the housing for the 808 pcb. It is all made from brass. Still need to work on the faceplate, pcb mount and power connector mount. The faceplate will hide the screws that mount the pots and jacks, so it is all flush and clean looking. The face will be made from copper.




[/img]

[mOBiTh]

heavy duty!!!

[theabsent]

[MoonMoose]

HEYYY! just got my pcb! anybody used BC546B instead of A?

[Juxwl]

[mckenic]

[mOBiTh]

my boards are basically stuffed - give me all of your panels

[julian]

Im sorry for the lack of communication.

We've been moving house and things have slipped a bit.

The 808 panels are top of my list of things to do, but, right at the moment, the larger cutting machine is still in the transport trailer, as i dont currently have a way of lifting it!

This is only a small order, and, as soon as i can move the machine the last few feet (its come 250 miles so far!) i should be able to cut the metal.

[rowman]

got my PCB, thanks

and robot909, those pictures of the stuffed board are going to be helpful, thanks as well

[robot909]

No problem rowman, glad to help.

Wanted to post another photo of my progress of the build.

Temporarily wired up the pots, jacks and the led indicator.

All seems to work. The two "accent" connections on the pcs have been tricky but works once I tapped the +voltage from power into one of the accent connections (right above the "acc" silkscreen), it worked, but watch out for the other connection as it will short circuit when +v is applied.

Can we PLEASE see schematics for this PCB? it would be easier to troubleshoot.

... Next on the list is soldering up a permanent mount for the pcb and power connector, wiring and faceplate....

[bananeurysm]

Sweet robot909! Looks good!

Yeah my site was hacked by kids. I don't have time to restore it right now - but in the meantime here is my schematic for the board if it's useful.

And yeah - Strategy's show the other week was killer!

[mOBiTh]

cheers dude - much appreciated

[[Djo]]

Hi!
Is there any PCB left? I would like one!

[robot909]

Still working on my build, but today some robots showed up and started to munch on the wires... They know that the 808 BD make some real good high quality kick, and that BD is smoked and seasoned just the way they like it.

Almost there.

[mOBiTh]

Guys

In the middle of the pcb just to the right of the 0.1uF pair of caps are three resistors: 1x10k and 2x100k

The labelling is not completely obvious - is the 10k top left and 100ks to the right and bottom?

I haven't got them with me so can't check against the schem, but thought i'd ask while i think of it!

Cheers

Matt

[robot909]

Here is the body of the 808 kick drum module. Made from brass. The face is copper. Learned a lot on this build. Brass is great to work with. Initially I was inspired by the BERGFOTRON
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/mek.htm



Here is the finished module!

[mOBiTh]

heavy duty!

[hexinverter]

[robot909]

Thank You!!!!

[Barcode]

I just finished put mine together and it sounds great! It's nice having an 808 kick for under $50.

Now I'm patiently waiting for a snare pcb.

[RSB]

I wouldnt put the Roland logo on it, i would use a proper 808 font if i where you.

[X11]

Thanks Jesse,

Nice deep purple pcbs will fit almost everywhere;)
even in my mailbox.

[haricots]

This would go great with hex's 909 kick! Are any boards left for sale?

[hexinverter]

[spotta]

[bananeurysm]

I have another lot of pcbs on hand now - so no danger of running out anytime soon! Shoot me a pm or email if you want one!

[ringstone]

Are you still looking at doing some of the other 808 voices? This is a great little PCB, I'd certainly buy any others you do.

Cheers
Blair

[asterisk]

thanks, i just paid for 1 PCB.

can anyone share a good FPE file with me? id like to make a panel for this eventually.
thanks!

[dadacore]

Hi, do you still have some pcbs left?

[astroschnautzer]

I would like a pcb if you still got...

[boothnavy]

Anyone have a problem with low output volume? I built two identical ones and they both seem to have low output.

[tony d]

[boothnavy]

[asterisk]

just paid for another PCB. thanks!

[asterisk]

ok, i just built up my first 808 PCB and im getting no sound out of it at all.
any advice where i should check first for troubleshooting?

looking at the pads on the PCBs for the pots, it should be 1 - 2 - 3 right?
and the jacks should be 1 - signal & 2 - ground?

i think i have those all wired correctly.
do i need to tie the accent to +12v? or can i just patch in an offset to it?

thanks for your help.

[hexinverter]

[asterisk]

ok so my problems arent just as simple as getting the accent straightened out.

as an experiment, i tied the accent input to +12v and removed the jack altogether and im still getting no sound.
so.....the whole accent thing is not the issue here.

any idea where to check the circuit next?

[Peake]

Admit it: We all need two 808 kick drum voices so we can do double kick heavy metal techno.

[hexinverter]

[stiebz]

julian

hello Julian,

not sure if you will be making the 5U panels for the 808, if you do, I would like to buy one.
Thanks,
Steven

[billieblaze]

I'd love to get one of these 808 pcbs.. this is my first forum post, so now i can PM you..

[lordofthebored]

I Pm'ed earlier this week about purchasing one of these boards, please check your inbox soon!

[Luka]

If you have no sound

Check the components around the opamp

I beleive the circuit is basically just a conditioned trigger with a simple resonant filter which is 'pinged'

Check pin 1 and pin 7 of the opamp To see the oscilator - if it is present there check the output circuitry

[Luka]

I noticed that this module has the decay mod inbuilt - i applied this mod on my mb808 bd and i am gettng weird behaviour. I was wondering if anyone who has built ths module could help me by checking whether the decay settings post 12oclock are usable?

I just get oscilllation - doesnt sound good and the drum sounds are phasing up and down in volume.

[asterisk]

ill check the stuff around the opamp first. thats a good idea.

maybe i just have a bad opamp in there.

hopefully i will get a chance to troubleshoot it tonight....

[Luka]

i was digging a little about the phase issue and seems like it is normal - i might remove this mod

for those interested in how the circuit works (troubleshooting maybe) check these links

(robbin whittle -aka devilfish talking circuits and the phasing issue)
http://analogue-heaven.1065350.n5.nabble.com/TR-808-Bass-Drum-has-vari able-punch-amp-decay-td68912.html

(sound on sound - synth secrets)
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb02/articles/synthsecrets0202.asp

[ringstone]

[Luka]

Cool thanks for backing that up blair

I think ill try keep the mod in but refine it a little - select a resistor value which adds a tad extra decay - just enough for decent booms at low tempo

[fdre3wsd]

I'm going to pm and inquire if these are on hand, I can't resist

[whitewulfe]

Hmmm, an 808 kick PCB could be interesting to get one's hands on... Wonder if any are still available ^_^

[hexinverter]

[whitewulfe]

[asterisk]

i just got another 808 BD PCB from jesse.
send him some money and one will show up. haha!

he doesnt seem to post around here or answer any PMs ever. we are on our own. im still trying to get my first one to work.
but i figured ill build a second and if that works then itll be easy to troubleshoot the first one.....

cant wait to get this and hex's 909 working together!

[bananeurysm]

Hey guys - sorry I've been so silent around here - it's been a crazy month. I am generally a little quick via jmejia (at) anestheticaudio [dot] com, but I do answer pm's.

If you're waiting for a board or a message back from me - drop me a line and I'll make sure you weren't lost in the shuffle - but I think I'm all up to date now!

I still have boards and am happy to ship em.

Apart from this last month - I can usually get the the post office once a week/week.5 to ship.

And I do try to chime in on troubleshoots in the thread when I can! Asterisk did you get your board working? Often total non-working boards just have issues with the power wiring - I know that's a simple/dumb answer - but always good to doublecheck you have your batteries in series correctly or what have you!

And Hexinverter - the boards aren't modified for tying the accent - I've just been tying them anyway and losing the accent jack in the process for those type of applications - but you could certainly mod differently!

[asterisk]

I haven't gotten my first one working yet. maybe it's power.
I need to get out the multimeter and check the power. it could be the IC.
if you tie the accent, you just run a jumper wire from +V to the accent input?
and do you have to wire anything into the accent ground pad?

it's possible that my pots might be wired backwards too, would that cause it not to work?

ok hopefully I can get one or both working soon.
I'm planning on making a dual 808 panel for eurorack. I'll share the FPD file here once I get things working and I'm ready to order my panel.

[hexinverter]

[asterisk]

hey hex,
do you think the CGS gate->trig PCB would work for the 808 PCB?
let me know. i have a couple of those.

the schematic for the 808 PCB is up on jesse's website.

im adding it here:
[/img]

[hexinverter]

[asterisk]

ok good to know that it should trigger properly with modular stuff.

i just need some dang 22k resistors and i can finish building my other PCB. im anxious to get this thing working.

[tibbon]

I'd love to get one of these- are they still available?

[roglok]

I just finished an 808 BD using this PCB layout:
http://xlargex.xl.funpic.de/projects/808/docs/808bdV1.0.pdf

I'm running it off 12V and tried several values for the pulse conditioner cap (C1 in bananeurysm's layout) and found that 33nF works much better than 100nF. With 100nF the pulse is too wide and makes the Attack click sound weird. It's also appears too loud. With 1nF the circuit sometimes fails to make a sound when sending rapid triggers.

Both 33nF and 47nF yielded much better results - I ultimately settled on 33nF because I liked the click sound a little better than with 47nF...

YMMV but I think it's worth trying different values there... Especially if your BD sound doesn't feel spot on...

[hexinverter]

[bananeurysm]

Yeah I used a modified trigger circuit based on something I got from Eric Archer's website. I've had success triggering it with a variety of sources, roland drum trigger outs, cmos square waves, loud audio transients, and modular square waves. for modular triggering - you have to play with pulse width a little bit - but you can dial it in.

Asterisk - I don't think you need to ground the accent jack - just wire your positive voltage to it. Are you powering the boards with batteries? Or a bipolar power supply? What are you triggering with?

Like hex said - backwards pots won't give you no sound... but make sure you try all the pots in a variety of positions - if they're backwards you might have the volume turned all the way down or something. Also play with the decay pot - play with all the pots. (But you probably have already...)

[boothnavy]

Here is my MOTM version, after the venerable design of the OG

[haricots]

There are a couple components in the Mouser BOM that are not available anymore. I'm horrible at picking new parts.

I need replacement parts for these two:

1) http://ca.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=CCF07220RGKR36virtual key61300000virtualkey71-CCF07-G-220

2) http://ca.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=K104M20X7RH53L2virtua lkey59420000virtualkey594-K104M20X7RH53L2

Pretty please anyone?

[hexinverter]

[hexinverter]

[bananeurysm]

[asterisk]

im running mine off doepfer +/- 12v supply.

so can i just run a +12v to the switch lug of my accent jack.
that way its +12v until i plug something into the jack?

i did play around with the pots in all positions and i still got no sound.

i should be able to finish my 2nd PCB later this week. hopefully i can get that one working.

im working on a dual 808 BD euro FPE panel. ill post it here once i get things working out.

[bananeurysm]

[roglok]

[asterisk]

i just checked my PCB.
im getting +12 at the accent pad.

i have the power hooked up correctly. +/- 12v show up there on the correct pads. -V is the square pad correct?

im getting +/- 12v on the proper pins of the IC. voltage there is good.
(and swapping the 072 didnt help either)

my caps are oriented right. my transistors are oriented correctly based on the PCB. im using regular BC556 and BC546A. im not using variations on those.

for those of you that are using the 808 PCB in eurorack land, what kind of trigger are you sending it? ive tried using Maths and other square wave / PWM sources and none of them work.

my soldering job looks good to me too.

what else should i check?

[bananeurysm]

[bananeurysm]

[asterisk]

im not getting any sound from mine. not even the click.
i did play around with pulsewidth a little bit.

do you know what the voltage threshold is for triggering it?
i think most eurorack sources are around +5v right?

[tony d]

[dadacore]

got mine built and working yesterday on +/-12v
I wired up an adjustable (with a trimmer) voltage divider to the norm pin of the accent jack, so if there is no accent present you can choose how much voltage to apply, up to +12v.
I don't have my soundcard with me to measure it but the output seems pretty low
i used BC546b all with the same HFE, but higher than the bc546A (the ones in the layout) could it be the issue with the low volume?
again, is the trigger voltage directly related to the amplitude?

[asterisk]

so i built up another one today and i have the exact same problem.
no sound at all! i wonder what i am doing wrong.
maybe i have some bad components or something?

anyone have any ideas about how to troubleshoot these any further?
this is getting frustrating, ive checked and rechecked everything so many times, i really dont know whats going wrong.

[The Big Ear]

I have my 808 kick's done.
They sound awesome together with the MPS's

Here some quick pic's:




More pics here:
http://modular.thebigear.be/#15.0

Cheers,
ToAd

[hexinverter]

[bananeurysm]

hmm. i haven't done any measurements.. but I run my with 2 9v batteries - and it seems loud. Certainly louder (better s/n) than my 606 - and I thought on par with my actual 808.

I'll try and do some actual output measurements when I get some time - but I'm afraid I may not be prompt with that! (Anyone else running on lower voltage wanna drop a measurement out there?)

[emdot_ambient]

[EMwhite]

Got mine running off my +15/-15 MU rack power. Had a ton of trouble getting the accent issue resolved primarily because the wire I was using was too thick to sit nicely in the MTA header. I hate that damn insertion tool, nearly lose my fingers each time.

Could somebody draw out for me, or explain in 'leg bone connected to the knee bone..." how to work out the pullup resistor bit.

I understand the concept in general and found a bunch of resources; just want somebody to tell me how to wire it optimally or to answer question a) below:

a) if accent is relatively low (I saw 4..14V somewhere), will the tone of the circuit be effected at all or is it purely the base/offset volume that is altered?

b) in either case, I would like to have a base voltage always present, then have the option of adding a 1/4" jack which can be 0..5V to meet the max loudness. For those of you that know the full range of amplitude, if a 9V..14V is not that big of a swing, any way to multiply the voltage * 2 so I have a base voltage of 4V, then for each volt coming into the 1/4" jack, double it.

You guys do this in your sleep so could a kind soul draw something up?

Otherwise, thanks to Bananeurism or however you spell it; very tight working conditions but definitely satisfying and no issues once I got the pot polarity set right.

For those still getting theirs working, I'm not sure that the statement "you don't need pots connected for it to work" is accurate. Certainly I also ended up with the droning BooM! of a kick that never decayed. Possibly I touched the bottom or something to do with floating voltage/ground on the pins not connected. Little did I know (above) that the connector I had on the accent header wasn't making sufficient contact.