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Wet punchy sound
 
 
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Author Wet punchy sound
lysander
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Wet punchy sound Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Alright wigglers I apologize for the rather open ended question but since I got my eurorack there's a few sounds that I really want to try making but can't get anywhere near.
For example, this amazing punchy, wet resonance you can hear from 0:03 in this audio:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instrument s-electronic-music-production/279321d1330369225-all-vst-resonance-suck s-polysix.wav.
Attached is a picture of my setup ( uFold not received yet ) - how would you go about patching that up if you had these ?

Generally even though I have made a lot of great sounds, I haven't really managed to get fat punchy sounds - like a moogish or Roland fat bass with snappy envelopes both on the filter and volume, so far I can get better ones in software like DIVA or an an FM synth, and had no problem programming it when I had a moog SP seriously, i just don't get it

Edit: everytime I try to go for that kind of sounds I end up with really clicky envelopes ( both on the gate on and gate off ) but not really punchy ones. I know the modules I have should be able to do these so I must be doing something wrong somewhere.
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radiodread87
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Last Visit: 05 Jan 2014

Posts: 2115
Location: Sunny Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A moog filter clone would help greatly like the RS100S. You already have the RS60 so that is a great envelope for this application although really you need two one for the VCA and one for the filter.

The patch for that wouldn't be very complex just a simple subtractive dual oscillator patch. Crank the gain on the filters to overdrive them a bit and have the resonance just on the cusp of oscillation and you should get some "wetness" from that. I would recommend using that Oakley VCA too as it has a vintage quality to it.

apart from that I mean you have the gear there so I would recommend making a cup of tea and exploring it there is no reason why you cant get some phat sounds there but if what you are after is Moog sounds then ultimately you (debatably) need a moog filter.
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Drumdrumdrumdrum
What she said


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Last Visit: 06 Oct 2014

Posts: 2886
Location: Tropical Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can't decide between the A105 or the Z2040 so I'm going to just sit with the three filters I have so far and wait because I heard that MOTM are going to release their Classic Moog ladder in Euro. I think that's what I heard?
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"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
- Author, Albert Schweitzer.

"Modular synths can take your ego out of the equation which, in music, is a blessing" - Jeremy Greenspan


http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/glennkingsleymortimer
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radiodread87
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Last Visit: 05 Jan 2014

Posts: 2115
Location: Sunny Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

the Z2040 is phat but in a different way to moog. Its a prophet filter. Cant vouch for the Doepfer one as I havn't tried it.

Not to be off topic but the Z2040 shines in other areas like FM etc. Plus the fact that you can vary the amount of FM by CV is also unique and pretty cool.
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Drumdrumdrumdrum
What she said


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Last Visit: 06 Oct 2014

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Location: Tropical Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Not so much phat but more "wet". Now you got me considering a RS100S............I vowed I would never go there with the 0.5HP gap.
_________________
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
- Author, Albert Schweitzer.

"Modular synths can take your ego out of the equation which, in music, is a blessing" - Jeremy Greenspan


http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/glennkingsleymortimer
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flashheart
Super Deluxe Wiggler


Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Drumdrumdrumdrum wrote:
I can't decide between the A105 or the Z2040 so I'm going to just sit with the three filters I have so far and wait because I heard that MOTM are going to release their Classic Moog ladder in Euro. I think that's what I heard?

They're going to release the E-440 which is a discrete SSM 2040 clone. The demos of the 5U version on their site have always sounded great to me.
Moog ladder? Not heard anything about it.
There are already a couple though, apart from the A.Sys RS100 the Macbeth Backend uses a ladder filter, and Doepfer do a couple.
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lysander
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks a lot for the suggestion about the filter just below self oscillation, that plus careful gain staging ( and the VCOb which seems to have more solid bass than the pittsburgh ) did the trick very nicely :

[s]http://soundcloud.com/jtriggerfish/wet-punch[/s]
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dogoftears
Puddle of Sealions


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 1999
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think you need tighter envelopes so u can finely tune out those clicks. Try envelator. Remember the boogie is vactrol so it will always slew a little bit, not good for extreme tightness. But the pitts thru the corgo should get u there. Plus a nice slippery sequence with slide on the last note...
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in an alternative reality I think I'd like to be a filthy free flowing psytrance stoner, and perhaps this music gives me a chance to briefly play out this fantasy.
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lysander
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok thanks for the suggestion !
Yeah the RS60 which is on the VCA for volume is very tight but I was using the MFB for the cutoff and it's not as tight and it's true the Boogie is a bit sluggish. I haven't tried the corgo for this type of sound yet, I was thinking the 12db slope would make it too open but that might be a silly prejudice.
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dogoftears
Puddle of Sealions


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 1999
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

lysander wrote:
Ok thanks for the suggestion !
Yeah the RS60 which is on the VCA for volume is very tight but I was using the MFB for the cutoff and it's not as tight and it's true the Boogie is a bit sluggish. I haven't tried the corgo for this type of sound yet, I was thinking the 12db slope would make it too open but that might be a silly prejudice.


Naw, the corgo is pretty steep sounding, and ranges from completely transparent and surgical at zero res, to very slippery and up into the distorted/waveshaping range when both the res and q drive knobs are turned up. yes i believe the AS is a good EG (havent used one in a while) but you will want matching EG's for these kind of patches. MFB is notoriously "mediocre" when it comes to the actual quality of its features. you need something also to give you control over the KIND of slopes yr eg produces- from linear to non linear. this is achieved by feedbacking the envelope out into the VC stage inputs. i like to have linear filter modulation paired with exponential amplitude modulation, this seems to achieve the tightest sound.

that said i recommend either a matching AS EG or a pair of envelators, or a maths (which as many people will tell you gives you a wealth of other features beyond its packed EGs), or a pair of VCS's (my personal favorite sounding envelope), or a 4ms PEG (much different kind of envelope but DAMN does it get tight as hell. it even has an attack "limiter" setting to cut out some of the clicking), or cwejman envelopes ($$$). of course this is all for sequencer driven bass, for keyboard hamming you will prolly want a pair of AS's or similar ADSR.

i don't really recommend doepfer EG's, they have very little fine tuning resolution.

also try and pay attention to just how much your overdriving each stage- pre filter and pre vca input levels, you know? the corgo makes this easy because it has an input level knob that starts distorting about halfway up. try distorting the input to the filter a bit while keeping the VCA totally clean, and vice versa. the thing with modular is that it gives you so much control over the timbre of your sound, that one sometime loses site of how to patch these simpler sounds. on a monosynth, the designers have already hardwired the levels and shapes of the envelopes etc to produce a distinct kind of timbre. once you pick apart what these different synths are doing under the hood, its easy to patch the stuff in modular. for example moog stuff is traditionally overdriven thru the filter inputs.

good luck!

_________________
it can all be summarized here: http://xexify.com
slow_riot wrote:
in an alternative reality I think I'd like to be a filthy free flowing psytrance stoner, and perhaps this music gives me a chance to briefly play out this fantasy.
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lysander
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks dogoftears, that's exactly the kind of info I needed ! Will try the corgo as soon as I get some modular time.
Regarding the dopefer envelopes, I started with a 143-2 which I sent back, I found it unusable, no control whatsoever.

VCS seem hard to find but available as kits, since I also want to start doing a bit of DIY I might try building one !

Also your comment regarding modular vs fixed synths and gain staging / overdriving is spot on, I think that's exactly what it giving me trouble, now I just need to get the hang of it thumbs up
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dogoftears
Puddle of Sealions


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 1999
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

lysander wrote:
Thanks dogoftears, that's exactly the kind of info I needed ! Will try the corgo as soon as I get some modular time.
Regarding the dopefer envelopes, I started with a 143-2 which I sent back, I found it unusable, no control whatsoever.

VCS seem hard to find but available as kits, since I also want to start doing a bit of DIY I might try building one !

Also your comment regarding modular vs fixed synths and gain staging / overdriving is spot on, I think that's exactly what it giving me trouble, now I just need to get the hang of it thumbs up


thanks and by the way that is a very well chosen starter setup you have there. don't abandon your boogie because it is one of the creamiest filters in all of euro. if you use the 6dB out and ping it with a very short a/d envelope, it will produce a comically long vactrol ring.

how are you liking the pittsburgh oscillators? i have my eye on them but havent gotten to mess with yet. oh that reminds me of another CRUCIAL bass note tip:

since the pittsburghs are sawcore oscillators, they should hard sync really well. send your clock pulse or gate out of your sequence or keyboard etc to the pitts sync in. this will ensure that every bass note triggered begins from the zero crossing of the waveform, and will also help in eliminating clicks and pops when you DO want to have super-tight attack times.
should have mentioned this before... sawcore is quite essential for really tight bass.

_________________
it can all be summarized here: http://xexify.com
slow_riot wrote:
in an alternative reality I think I'd like to be a filthy free flowing psytrance stoner, and perhaps this music gives me a chance to briefly play out this fantasy.
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lysander
Wiggling with Experience


Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Awesome, thanks again for these tips I will try that next time.
I really like the Pittsburgh, they track very well an have a great vintagey feel to them. The triangle sounds a bit edgy ( sort of halfway between a triangle and saw I'd say ) though I haven't checked the waveform.
The hardsync sounds awesome.
I feel the VCOb has slightly more beef in the bass department but sounds cleaner / more modern. I'm glad I've got both !
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dogoftears
Puddle of Sealions


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Last Visit: 25 Nov 2014

Posts: 1999
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

lysander wrote:
Awesome, thanks again for these tips I will try that next time.
I really like the Pittsburgh, they track very well an have a great vintagey feel to them. The triangle sounds a bit edgy ( sort of halfway between a triangle and saw I'd say ) though I haven't checked the waveform.
The hardsync sounds awesome.
I feel the VCOb has slightly more beef in the bass department but sounds cleaner / more modern. I'm glad I've got both !


yes, those two seem almost born to work together. the vcob should produce a pretty perfect triangle wave, since it is a tricore osc. the pitts is trying to shape a triangle out of a sawtooth wave, hence the bite you hear. but you wont be able to do the sync trick i mention above, this only works on sawcore oscillators.

_________________
it can all be summarized here: http://xexify.com
slow_riot wrote:
in an alternative reality I think I'd like to be a filthy free flowing psytrance stoner, and perhaps this music gives me a chance to briefly play out this fantasy.
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cat6batch
Ultra Wiggler


Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Last Visit: 24 Nov 2014

Posts: 958
Location: Melbourne, AUS

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thought of this straight away.

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