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genlock camera
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Video Synthesis Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author genlock camera
jjr
hey friends
what is a genlock camera that you can buy new on the internet that will 100% work with the LZX system. my goal is send the camera a signal from the video synch generator and then patch the camera directly into my system for a ( cheap not perfect but hopefully workable) second video source in addition to the one going into the synch generator.

Please only cameras you have personally used or seen in use for this purpose
thanks much
jjr
lizlarsen
Current, commercially available, new cameras with this feature run in the $500+ range, I think. I think Dave may know some model numbers...

Most of us here that have genlock cameras have purchased some used CCD rigs on eBay including 3-6 genlock cameras together for $100-$200. The two that I have and like a lot are Pelco MC3710H, I found them separately on ebay for about $40 each, and then bought nice CCD lenses for them on eBay for about $25 each.
daverj
It's getting harder to find new cameras that have genlock. Many of the security camera companies are splitting their products into cheap non-genlock cameras, and digital "IP" type cameras.

There are plenty that show up on ebay. You just have to go through them carefully looking for ones with pictures of the back of the camera that show a BNC marked "GenLock". Many of those though are 24 volt AC or 12 volt DC, and usually don't come with the transformer. They sometimes also don't come with the lens. But many do, and there's lots of lenses available.

If you scour the web you will still find new ones online at security/surveillance camera sites, though many of them are discontinued models. Those places will cost you several times what used ones sell for on ebay.
deAnimator
Quote:
You just have to go through them carefully looking for ones with pictures of the back of the camera that show a BNC marked "GenLock"


yep. 2 BNC connectors on the camera is kind of a give-away.


i've one camera here marked "G/L IN" on the back.

and there's another camera marked "EXT CTRL"..
the connector is for genlocking but it can be used for other inputs also.

oh, and i've one thing here where the genlock is simply marked "REF"
daverj
Ref or Reference is a common marking for the genlock input of time base correctors (TBCs).
wcfields
Many of those though are 24 volt AC or 12 volt DC

IMHO, 24 Volt AC is bullshit.

The wall-warts put to shame even the biggest DC adapter I've ever seen and you have these unshielded wires hanging around everywhere.

I'm sure they were welcomed back in the day due to the fact you could have a non-electrician CCTV tech wire them up for being low voltage, but for general use I'd stick with 12V DC as the adapters are nearly free (how cheap they) are and more modern ones can work with 220V as well (though this is a unique case scenario).
deAnimator
i scored a panasonic convertible camera,
for less than 100€ on the ebay.
was sold with a "probably doesn't work" disclaimer.
on the photos you could see the (somewhat less usual) negative-inside-positive power input connector, and something like, heat-scoring or whatever on the contacts. . .
decided to assume that someone had tested the thing with their polarity backwards and blown something on the power board...
...in the end, all that was needed was to replace a tiny (though rather obscure) SMD fuse inside the camera.
now i have a camera with 850 lines resolution : )

made a breakout box so it can output RGB, YUV, and svideo (via the weird 50pin scsi-esque connector on the back) w00t
Arturo00
This one looks like it might work: Sony SSC-C370. It has two BNC connections on the back. Can anyone verify?

What kind of lens bevel standard do these use? I have a crapload of Nikon and Canon lenses, would those work?
barto
not sure if "VS In" will work or not. nikon and cannon lenses wont work. these cameras are usually use c or cs mount lenses or both. youll find a bunch with a quick ebay search and can be pretty cheap. you can spend more if your camera and lens supports auto iris or if youd like zoom capability.
Arturo00
Then I guess my next question is, do I need Genlock if I'm just feeding one camera signal into the lzx system to be mangled? What's the benefit?
wcfields
Arturo00 wrote:
Then I guess my next question is, do I need Genlock if I'm just feeding one camera signal into the lzx system to be mangled? What's the benefit?


No, the LZX will sync to the signal of your camera.

If you want to plug in more than one camera directly into the LZX then you will need to Genlock them to the system.

It's fairly simply, run the video-out to the genlock-in on your camera and the camera syncs to that signal.

Even better are some of the higher-end cameras that have RGB out. High-end Scan Converters (Ebay: Extron or Scando) have genlock too and you can run the RGB outs on those directly into the LZX.
lizlarsen
Yes, like wcfields says -- you only need a genlocked source if you're planning to process more than one external video source at a time.
Arturo00
Ah. Does that also include the video oscillators and/or signal from say a DVD player or laptop?

Either way, I won the auction. Hopefully shipping isn't absurd. Now I have to find a lens. You guys weren't kidding, they're cheap as hell and in great abundance!
lizlarsen
Quote:
Ah. Does that also include the video oscillators and/or signal from say a DVD player or laptop?


No on video oscillators (those are "inside" the system, so will sync to the VSG's master timing pulses internally), but yes on DVD players, laptops, or any other external video sources. Video synchronization is a master/slaves relationship where there can be only one master timing source, and all other devices must be slaved to it. The LZX system (via its' Video Sync Generator) can work as either a master device or a slave device. Essentially a genlock device is one with the ability to be "slaved."
Dofkev
so, there is a guy on eBay who has 100 of these for sale at $15 each:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=ProductDetail&A=show ItemLargeImage&Q=&sku=717297&is=REG

The spec says they are genlock, but I don't see a genlock input in the photo. Will this sync to the lzx sys? Also, these are the PAL version.
lizlarsen
The image you linked to is not of the genlock version. Which model is on eBay? There are several different models -- the Pelcos I have are MC3710H-6 (the NTSC genlock, 12VDC model.)
Matos
Just to be sure, you multi the video out and feed on directly into the genloc on the camera. Then you can just plug the cameras out directly into the lzx chain?
lizlarsen
I wouldn't use a passive mult of the outgoing video signal (either use an unused output from the Color Video Encoder, or use a video distribution amplifier.) You can then plug the camera directly into the LZX modules with an RCA-to-1/8" adapter, but the quality will not be what you'd expect from a properly DC restored, 75 ohm terminated interface such as the upcoming Triple Video Interface module... (but it will work!)
Matos
I'm already sold on the triple buddy. Got a beautiful, practically deadstock Panasonic n3 and I'm itching to plug it in the the lzx with some other loveliness. I have a extron scan converter feeding video from a MacBook, so I was just going to take that genloc signal into the camera.
deAnimator
semi related question. not wanting to derail thread,

but i just got a new 12pin connector for sony dxc camera (DC IN / VBS out)
connector is of the type HR10.
uhm, i'm really not sure how to disassemble this thing for soldering : /

i'm assuming you poke the middle thing out the front, from the back of the connector shell to access the terminals... but it sits in the so solidly, i don't want to force it....

anyone worked with these things before?








part number is
HR10-10P-12S(73)
daverj
deAnimator wrote:
semi related question. not wanting to derail thread,

but i just got a new 12pin connector for sony dxc camera (DC IN / VBS out)
connector is of the type HR10.
uhm, i'm really not sure how to disassemble this thing for soldering : /

i'm assuming you poke the middle thing out the front, from the back of the connector shell to access the terminals... but it sits in the so solidly, i don't want to force it....

anyone worked with these things before?

part number is
HR10-10P-12S(73)


The body screws on. Those have two parts that are threaded. The back cable clamp part and the main body. The cable clamp threads onto the main body and the main body threads onto the plug.
daverj
Here's one that I have that uses the same plug insert but a different shell style. This one is the HR10A-10P-12S



ON a new connector the threaded insert should be so loose that you can grab it with your fingernails (like I did here) and thread it out. Or use thin needle nose pliers.

On a used one that was assembled already the insert will have been torqued down and need more strength to unscrew it. Plugging it into a mating connector might give you the grip needed to turn it. Plus if it's assembled on a cable, you first have to loosen the back cable clamp part so the cable doesn't rotate when you rotate the connector.
wcfields
daverj wrote:
Words about 12 Pins


Do you know of a cheap way to get one of these cables (or even sockets)? It seems even the cheapest I can find is around $40 on eBay.

What about the 4 Pin DC DIN Cables? I'm not exactly sure what to search when trying to find that kind.
lizlarsen
You can look thru the Mouser catalog's correct section, page-by-page, looking at pictures of the connectors until you find what you need. Sometimes that's what it takes, connectors can be hard to search for. They should have 4-Pin DC connectors.
daverj
The Hirose connectors are not cheap. The HR10-10P-12S is $25

http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/HR10-10P-12S%2873%29/HR1563-N D/1095422

I used the HR10A version on a project, which they call the low cost version. It's $15 for the same configuration. I don't have one of the Sony cameras, so can't be certain they are 100% compatible.

http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/HR10A-10P-12S%2873%29/HR1623- ND/1095481

4 pin DIN connectors (used for power) and 6-pin DIN (used for sync on old cameras) are cheap and easy to get:

http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/SD-40/CP-1040-ND/96995

http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/SD-60/CP-1060-ND/96999

Pre-made cables for the Sony cameras with Hirose on one end and 4-pin DIN on the other are not cheap. Typically $50 to over $100, depending on length.

http://audio-video-supply.markertek.com/search?p=Q&lbc=markertek&uid=1 99719068&ts=custom&w=4-pin%20DIN%20cable&isort=score&method=and&view=g rid&modaf=rn:cat1:cables
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