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[IC] paperface serge eurorack *or 4U panels for CGS PCBs
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]

What format would you prefer panels for CGS/Serge modules?
Eurorack (minijack/banana)
39%
 39%  [ 36 ]
4U individual module panels (banana)
41%
 41%  [ 38 ]
Only full 4Ux17" panels (banana) *I wont consider individual modules in 4U*
18%
 18%  [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 91

Author [IC] paperface serge eurorack *or 4U panels for CGS PCBs
Rod Serling Fan Club
EDIT: I am also very interested in finding out if others would be interested in individual 4U panels. I added a poll for your polling pleasure

This is an interest check. Forgive me, I am on a bit of a panel kick right now. I have lot of built circuits that I'd like to switch for professional panels.

I've started to design some serge paperface inspired euro panels. They would be printed by MPC like all the other DIY euro panel offerings. I'd like to do a panel for each of the early ken stone Serge CGS PCBs:
CGS76 '73 EG
CGS77 '73 VCF
CGS82 Negative Slew
CGS83? Positive Slew
CGS84 Dual Peak and Trough
CGS116 Extended ADSR
Ken also mentioned the wave multipliers, phaser and VCO are on the "to-do" list.

There are also a number of other CGS PCBs I'd like euro panels for.

Here is a preliminary design of what they might look like. I plan to label all the controls on all of them to make it clear what the functions do but maintain the original design as much as possible:


One thing to consider is that some of Ken's PCBs can be cut in half. Others would need to either be mounted in a deep case to work with these smaller panel or one could attach a few panels together and then mount the PCBs similar to the clarke panels for shallow cases.

I'm alternately considering full [EDIT: or individual 4U] serge paperface panels that would go well with the Zthee panels. My issue with those are you are stuck with whatever modules are chosen and the original paperface designs are space hogs compared to later serge panels. Also, I have to admit the big boat builds burn me out. I kind of like building a module at a time...
cebec
Nice!
While not your first choice, I'd be interested in a boat / full panel of original Serge paperface designs like the Zthee panels.

Is a PCB for the Bidirectional Router available?

(I'd be willing to pay someone to build it for me, too!)
djs
When you refer to a boat- would this be a "euro-boat"?

I like the design!
ringstone
Definitely interested in the extended ADSR and VCF, possibly the Peak + Trough...

Cheers
Blair
haima
That extended adsr looks nice. thumbs up

I'm interested in that one depending on PCB fit, HP, price etc.

BTW - do you plan on making a spot for the lin/log switch on the extended ADSR panel? Or is it there and i'm missing it? Oh, and the Delay? I understand if you decide to skip those bits as it might get crowded...
rico loverde
sounds great Rod, id personally be interested in a serge panel style.
lysander
Nice design, and I'd be interested in the extended ADSR one.
Regarding PCB size I've already built my case to be extra deep for this purpose so board perpendicular to the panel would be my prefered option ( with 2 mounting screws on the panel ? ) but I'm open to other ideas.
Rod Serling Fan Club
djs wrote:
When you refer to a boat- would this be a "euro-boat"? I like the design!

Well the proposed idea here is idividual euro panels like the one posted above. The alternate "boat" idea is full serge size panels like the Zthee "best of CGS" 7''x19".
haima wrote:
That extended adsr looks nice. thumbs up
I'm interested in that one depending on PCB fit, HP, price etc.
BTW - do you plan on making a spot for the lin/log switch on the extended ADSR panel? Or is it there and i'm missing it? Oh, and the Delay? I understand if you decide to skip those bits as it might get crowded...

The 3 row panels, which most of these are, would probably be about 14hp. I suspect that would put the price around $20 a panel. Fit is going to depend on the PCB.
I can add features if there is space. I wanted to do a feeler before I put much more work into designing these.
lysander wrote:
( with 2 mounting screws on the panel ? ) but I'm open to other ideas.
I prefer making metal L brackets that mount to the pots = no screw heads on the panel.
Rod Serling Fan Club
rico loverde wrote:
sounds great Rod, id personally be interested in a serge panel style.


If I did do full serge/banana panels I would probably put this off until Ken released a number of his upcoming modules. I don't know when that would be. 2 types of EGs, peaks and troughs and a VCF would make for an odd panel. I do think that once Ken released all of the PCBs he has mentioned thus far that 2 full panels, one devoted to CV and the other to audio could be nice.
rico loverde
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
one devoted to CV and the other to audio could be nice.
yea that would be really cool...
djs
on the Serge panel- i'd like to make a buchla panel with some of the pcbs that have been coming out lately

Or you could just make one that's all dusg boards and call it the octa-slope or something smile

it's too bad Ken can't release the SSG board, cos I think that would help complete a CV panel.
bananeurysm
+1 for a full boat design!
lysander
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
I prefer making metal L brackets that mount to the pots = no screw heads on the panel.

Ah I agree that's a better solution !
But I haven't been able to find the right brackets so far, do you have a part number / source ?
ndkent
might very well be interested in a boat trouble is of course what goes into it exactly and of course 3 or 4 U.

I'd be in for 2 of each individual panel if that's the direction that is stuck to.

where is the delay on the extended adsr?

oh and the extended adsr is by no means a 73 module. Malcolm Cecil (TONTO) explained to me he didn't like Serge's original Buchla influenced envelopes and explained his design for adding VC to a Moog Style envelope. I'm pretty sure he was unfamiliar with Buchla's OR configuration as Serge afaik didn't folow that detail.
Rod Serling Fan Club
ndkent wrote:
might very well be interested in a boat trouble is of course what goes into it exactly and of course 3 or 4 U.

I'd be in for 2 of each individual panel if that's the direction that is stuck to.

where is the delay on the extended adsr?

oh and the extended adsr is by no means a 73 module. Malcolm Cecil (TONTO) explained to me he didn't like Serge's original Buchla influenced envelopes and explained his design for adding VC to a Moog Style envelope. I'm pretty sure he was unfamiliar with Buchla's OR configuration as Serge afaik didn't folow that detail.


If I did full banana panels they would be 4U, just like the best of CGS panels with the eariler paperface 6x16 grid as opposed to the later 8x16 grid. My module selection would likely focus on modules that supplement the existing Zthee panels. More focus on modules not already present in the Zthee panels.

That design was just a prototype. I will probably just put "serge" on the top and possibly add '73 to the name on bottom when appropriate. On a full serge panel I would come up with something different altogether for the top area.
Rod Serling Fan Club
I wanted to comment what some of my reasoning/benefits for doing individual euro *or 4U panels over a full size 17"x4U panel. Originally I did want to do a 4U panel but I think the benefits of euro/3U are many:

- It is very nice to be able to choose the modules you want rather than being stuck with a selection of modules someone else chose for you; I also think this is true to the original paperface ethos
- Panels can be produced as PCBs become available
- They would be a great supplement to the other serge DIY panels offered by clarke and elby
- People who want them specifically to use with zthee/serge panels could use banana jacks and rack them alongside those.

I think once people start getting their zthee panels and building and troubleshooting a ton of PCBs at once, they will realize how nice it can be to build/troubleshoot a module at a time.

EDIT: I am also considering individual 4U panels. I think it is the best of both worlds - banana, serge format but individual panels allow you the ability to choose which modules you want in your boat/rack.
haima
Some good points there for sure. Particularly this:

Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:

I think once people start getting their zthee panels and building and troubleshooting a ton of PCBs at once, they will realize how nice it can be to build/troubleshoot a module at a time.
asterisk
+1 for individual panels. some of us dont want all of the modules or already have them in our systems. i dont mind having deep modules or trying to figure out how to mount them in euro.
better to keep them modular so that people can pick and choose.
clarke already did some CGS large panels / boat / multimodule kind of thing right?
haima
+1

I guess sometimes it might be a good idea to make "dual" modules or combine two complimentary modules onto one panel - if that helps function and also gives more panel space to mount the pcb behind...

Maths / DUSG type modules are good example of a combination that is better than the sum of it's parts.

Individual modules or small combos is the way to go in this case IMHO.
bkbirge
asterisk wrote:
+1 for individual panels. some of us dont want all of the modules or already have them in our systems. i dont mind having deep modules or trying to figure out how to mount them in euro.
better to keep them modular so that people can pick and choose.
clarke already did some CGS large panels / boat / multimodule kind of thing right?


+2
Rod Serling Fan Club
FWIW - If you need to have shallow modules, it would be easy to permanently attach multiple panels side by side in any configuration you want with JB Weld and strips of metal. I could provide a tutorial on how to do that. I can think of other ways of accomplishing this as well, none of them very difficult.Then you could mount the PCBs similar to the way Clarkes are set up.


The 73EG, 73VCF aren’t made to be cut in half. The Peak and Trough, extended ADSR are. No Idea about the unreleased PCBs
CJ Miller
I am making paperface boats currently. IMO 4U is a much, much more comfortable size to build and use. There is no reason why one can't mount rails in a 4U case to make it fully modular, I saw in an earlier post that Craig Lee has done this. As for myself I can think of what modules I want together, and run panel-mount trimmers if necessary, so I am more likely to keep doing whole panels at a time. I am reproducing the original Serge panel art, and also adapting it for a few extra non-Serge bits. Basically trying to bring out what attracted my to 4U and also include would-be paperface modules which might have existed in alternate futures. w00t!!



edit - I see I need to tame the sharp corners on the sustain inputs
Rod Serling Fan Club
CJ Miller wrote:
IMO 4U is a much, much more comfortable size to build and use. There is no reason why one can't mount rails in a 4U case to make it fully modular, I saw in an earlier post that Craig Lee has done this.


I had thought of this solution as well and I agree that it probably is the best solution for CGS PCBs. I am concerned with whether or not this would appeal to a large enough audience for a group buy of panels.

I’m curious what others think. Would you buy individual serqe-ish 4U module panels so that you could create your own “boat” or rack of panels? Over time, this could be extended to pretty much the full range of CGS PCBs (and others).

Sounds like an opportunity for a poll!
CJ Miller
Well, I'm probably going to just keep doing my own panels. At first I dreaded starting, but now I am getting into it.

Found a picture of CLee's fully-modular 4U setup, it's a great example so hopefully he doesn't mind if I include it here:

CLee wrote:
Rod Serling Fan Club
CJ Miller wrote:
Well, I'm probably going to just keep doing my own panels.


I’m moving the opposite direction I’ve made a bunch of etched panels but I’m leaning towards professionally made panels now. I’ll probably end up with a bit of both in the end.

Thanks for posting the picture so people have a better idea what we are talking about.
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