Muff's Modules & More

a scanner darkly · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: Using a pair of same oscillators

I keep seeing people recommending having a pair of same model oscillators. Is there a reason for that aside from being able to have a dual voice?

It seems to be implied that you get better results with FM when using a matching pair - is that true? Are there other reasons?

Tried searching to no avail - if there are threads about it already will appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

estin · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject:

well I ordered 3 of the dotcom oscillators in my system 22 that is coming. I figured if 1 sounds great, 3 will sound fantastic. It's peanut butter jelly time!

rjungemann · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject:

If you choose to either layer a handful of oscillators (for example for a detuned saw sound) or decide to do polyphony, you will get a more consistent sound if you use the same oscillator.

Some oscillators are triangle-core and some oscillators are saw-core. Other waveforms generated from these basic waveforms will have slight imperfections (for example a sine might have an almost imperceptible point at the peaks). When layering more oscillators of the same type, the harmonics will be more similar.

Furthermore, some oscillators reset to the beginning when synced, and others reverse when synced. It may sound messy if you pair oscillators with different syncing styles.

But by all means, demo different oscillators and buy what you're moved to buy, even if you buy oscillators that don't necessarily match. If you're not going to do matched polyphony and you're not interested in making detuned saw sounds (or you already have an osc that can do detuned sounds already), there really isn't much of a reason to pair up oscillators. There is something to be said for getting a digital osc (like a Cyclebox or Piston Honda) and a more conventional analog osc too, to create a wider variety of sound.

diophantine · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject:

Cross-modulating two oscillators of the same type is also an enjoyable activity! screaming goo yo

a scanner darkly · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject:

Yeah, when I said "dual voice" I also meant thickening the sound with slightly detuned oscillators, basically any patch that would require having 2 sound sources with very similar characteristics.

And a good point about saw core and triangle core sync being different but still, it seems there is another reason for having a paired up oscillator in your system. Variety is good (and I have several oscillators, digital and analog) but it seems in every "help me choose my next oscillator" thread there is always advice to get another same oscillator in addition to the one you already have and like. Perhaps there is no any specific reason other than expanding your system with what you already know works for you, but that was the impression I was getting from those threads.

a scanner darkly · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject:

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject:

One reason to use more than one of the same oscillator is because they will probably track together better. The Dixie, for example, has very good tracking over about 8 octaves, and serviceable tracking for 2 octaves beyond that. What little tracking error there is tends to fall in the same places in the audio spectrum. That means that, even though Dixie tracking might not be perfectly accurate, it will be very precise with respect to other similarly calibrated Dixies. This, I assume, also applies to other VCOs.

a scanner darkly · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject:

A trick question: is FM on a Dixie better when it's FM'd by another Dixie? hihi

diophantine · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject:

whitewulfe · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject:

I went with triplets, not only because it was a good deal, but it maximizes the use of the Triple Soft Sync module I got with them ^_^ SlayerBadger!

Plus Q106s are just... Sexy, and so versatile.

richard · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject:

Loads of people have posted over the years that the M15 is particularly fantastic when FM'd or cross-FM'd with another M15 or M37 (which apparently shares the same core). My own experience is that the M15 also sounds as great, and possible better, modulated by a variety of other sources too, e.g. Doepfer A-143-9, Cwejman D-LFO, Wiard Anti-Osc, A111, RS95, Cyclebox. Also I never really thought the M37s stood out as an FM modulation source for the M15 at all (though not having a sine could be a big part of that). I felt the same way about the A111, didn't see much benefit having a pair. On the whole I think I prefer crossbreeding

The matched tracking and timbrel consistency are good arguments though, and if I ever played chords on my modular (which I doubt will ever happen) I'd want as many near identical VCOs as there were voices in those chords

(Through thinking about this stuff I've just realised I've never really explored the E350 as an FM source - it has to be killer, right? )

a scanner darkly · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject:

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that M15 is supposed to be one half of 258, and from what I've seen/read about 258 so far it seems that 258 design encouraged self cross modulation (just my guess).

And not to mention DPO Dead Banana

but it is a _dual_ oscillator with prepatched cross modulation on steroids.

transistor logic · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject:

well i guess having identical modules helps understanding better whats going on . i mean if tomorow you buy a second osc of a model you already have you already know it inside out and are ready to go . if you buy a new one you have to learn how it reacts to stuff , experiment and learn it inside out to take full advantage of it . if you have 8 different oscillators chances are that some of them are still mysterious to you , if you have eight times the same , i bet you know it really well in all its tiny details . personally i dont have twins or triplets yet . but someday i hope i will

i dont think i am being very clear here , sorry bout that

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject:

a scanner darkly · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject:

It would make sense then that perhaps oscillators that get recommended as pairs are the ones that are good as FM modulators.

Thanks Dave, those are interesting points, I should read up on FM (or even better buy you a beer and pick you brain sometime Guinness ftw!