Muff's Modules & More

DonKartofflo

So not bashing anyone and don't wanna make up a fight but I am honestly.interested in starting a nice little talk about who is the most innovative Manufacturer right now in Euroland.

I think to me it is metasonix, simply because I have never ever seen a synthesizer completely based on tubes anywhere else.
and because yellow.

But I would like.to hear other opinions so cheers!

Don

chrisso · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:56 am Post subject:

In terms of modules that aren't like any other Euro modules I'd say ADDAC.

It feels like most of those Metasonix ideas have been around for over ten years, they were just in 19" rack or stomp box format.

blinosynth · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:24 am Post subject:

intellijel is the most innovative imho
addac also .
in terms of graphic maybe endorphin.es hihi

kimu · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:26 am Post subject:

also makenoise has brought some innovative modules in the euro-space

radiokoala · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:41 am Post subject:

I have a feeling that Bruce Duncan can soon establish himself as one. Earlier Touch Sequencer, now that additive oscillator... eek!

Anything modcan, I'm looking forward to thumbs up

ultrashock · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:42 am Post subject:

I second ADDAC with their unique cases-transformers for euro

mudlogger · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:46 am Post subject:

innovative?

I look at innovative modules and its pretty much all the designers.
Modules that are not rehashed or available in any other format.

The newer makenoise stuff - like the Phonogene / Echophon.
ADDAC for stuff like Marble Physics.
I think WMD is really innovative especially with stuff like the PDO.
4ms for the PEG - must be well up there - one of a kind module.
Even Snazzyfx for Ardcore.

There should be a Eurorack Oscars - that would be very funny.

exper · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:17 am Post subject:

MrDys · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:46 am Post subject:

All of them. There's lots of good brain energy happening in this neck of the woods.

Oh, I have to narrow it down? Well, for outside of the box modules that I find really useful, Flame.

Carci · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:51 am Post subject:

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Harvestman.
So I thought I'd mention it.

exper · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:55 am Post subject:

Gah! Harvestman, of course. Well, with over 90 makers and 600+ modules, its getting a little hard to keep track of all this. What does 5u have? Maybe 10 or so manufacturers? Buchla? 2 or 3.

SYN7HOR · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:48 am Post subject:

blinosynth · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:53 am Post subject:

reppiks · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:58 am Post subject:

Most innovative should surely mean module concepts that have never been done before in any other synth format (whether modular or non-modular). There is a huge amount of innovation in Euro for 'new in Euro', but I think the field gets narrowed down quite significantly if you remove the 'something like this has been done before elsewhere, but now we have it in Euro for the first time, and maybe with a new with a new twist to it' modules.

Maybe The Harvestman takes the prize for me

mudlogger · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:50 am Post subject:

ersatzplanet · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:08 am Post subject:

JohnLRice · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject:

sgnhh · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject:

i wonder if some people are letting their favorite modules cloud their judgement. make noise as most innovative, really?

i'd rank them from most to least in this sort of way:

4ms
modcan
harvestman
synthtech
metasonix
intellijel
make noise
doepfer
blue lantern

wbelote · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject:

The Wiard stuff is also great, but then the whole renaisance that is Eurorack is quite creative.

logicgate · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject:

It would be unfair to pinpoint a few. I think all of them deserves awards.

exper · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject:

sgnhh · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject:

i've owned the phonogene... maybe the rene is his most innovative device.

the echophon is a hardware implementation of software, i wouldn't call it innovative, no matter how fun it is to use. tony's work is mostly variations on other people's work.

polyroy · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject:

Doepfer. Started the format and makes some amazing modules. Unfortunately, it's very overlooked at times.

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject:

I think all of them, basically. although there are clearly different ways of innovating. some innovate by porting over software technology and giving them cv control, some innovate by combining different existing circuit designs, some innovate by re-implementation of designs but using different components and adding new cv control, some innovate just by creating new interfaces, the list is endless!

I do have to give personal points to the E340, E350, and Phonogene.

matttech · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject:

cylonix, for the cyclebox. simply for all the crazy ways to combine the waveforms. never ever heard of some of these types of synthesis before this module.....maybe they’re not all new, but some must be.

the whole package is definitely what i’d call innovative.

logicgate · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject:

Tronketz · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject:

jtai · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject:

I'd say Make Noise and Intellijel, 4ms too for the PEG.

thetwlo · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject:

It's tough, as larger companies have lots of basic modules.
So, I think about all are...
Most innovative? maybe Wiard, but not truly a euro co. and the 300 series is where it's really at.
Also, The Harvestman and Make Noise would be up there. Even things like the Phonogene and Echophon just because the owner didn't do the coding, (both by Gotherman? with Erbe's SH code) doesn't mean they aren't innovative. I can't think of a module before that was anything like them.
I wouldn't put Doepfer up there, this was a pretty boring place before others jumped in. They have many great unique modules, especially the A-101-3 and the BBD modules. For many they were asking us for input. Great, love that, but it's not really "innovation" on their part. I like the Doepfer stuff but, I really wouldn't call most of the modules "innovative." We owe them a lot for certain, for bringing affordable modules and modular back of course.

automaton · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject:

I would have to disagree with a golden cat award. Too obvious.

It would have to be a golden unicorn shooting penises from a gun. Something the manufacturers of modules would be proud to display for friends and family.

thetwlo · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject:

shaft9000 · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject:

Hainbach · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:42 am Post subject:

Wasn't "state of the art of 1966" the Make Noise slogan? I think that fits the modular world perfectly.

The modular feels rather primitive to me, which is part of its charm. I don't think like I am at the pinnacle of innovation when I play it, but I feel like I am in alternate timeline. A place where unwieldy, expensive and hard to come by electronics still rule. Its like the Battlestar Galactica of the new series - an old heap of unconnected electronics that managed to survive the Cylon onslaught because of its old-fashioned design (I must have looked at my Cyclebox too long last night).

Within the Euro format, the sonic textures that feel the most "new" to me (with the limited 12U I have) are from The Harvestman, Cyclebox and Metasonix.

The most innovative designer in my opinion is Expert Sleepers - seamless DAW integration expands the modular endlessly.

DonKartofflo · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:08 am Post subject:

radiokoala · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:25 am Post subject:

So, now I took a look at that E355 (how did I miss it before?? d'oh!

) and feel like I can't not nominate Synthesis Technology too! This is fun!

Judging by the modules offered, each of them appears to be innovative above average thumbs up

Sanatasclaw · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: First Look

I love Make Noise; phonogene and ecophon - new ways of using old ideas

Kakihara · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:17 am Post subject:

I'd say:
WMD
Plan B
Makenoise and Harvestman equal too

but I like many more all for different reasons wink

g.

nono.dracula · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:40 am Post subject:

SYNTHESIS TECHNOLOGY we're not worthy

kimu · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:48 am Post subject:

ok... innovator maybe :

- manufacturer that has introduced new technologies or new way to built module (does this apply? i do not know, maybe the skiff-friendly modules ...)

- manufacturer that have put in euro format functionality existing somewhere else but with great improvement in usability

- manufacturer that have created module with functions never seen before nowhere

have you an example for these category?

Bishop Dust · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:48 am Post subject:

new functions never seen before : ADDAC (marble physics, lissajou, nunchuck,...)

exper · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:02 am Post subject:

DonKartofflo · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:43 am Post subject:

Funky40 · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject:

synthomaniac · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject:

automaton · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject:

boramx · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject:

Its true. Awards should be unicorn Penii, not cats.

bouzoukijoe1 · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject:

DonKartofflo · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject:

zerosum · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject:

DonKartofflo · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject:

eXode · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject:

I don't own any modules by them myself but surely Flame deserves some mention? And also Pittsburgh Modular (Timetable in particular?) perhaps.

Hi5 · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject:

Very hard one to answer. Given that many of the Intellijel designs are based around a single IC I would have to say that they are at least pretty smart.

mmelnick · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject:

"I just want to say thank you to my mom and dad, my producer and manufacturer, Muff and all the wigglers, Robert Moog, and the synthesizer community at large. I love you all"

*blows kisses*

--applause--

blinosynth · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject:

...and the winner is......
pbear :(

fredguy · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject:

decaying.sine · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject:

there is no true innovation in euro, all major companies just pop up modules that are already made in other formats or other platforms like dsp based modules.

did someone mentioned, Buchla, Serge and Wiard?

numan7 · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject:

mmelnick · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject:

if someone won a real award from muffs, you'd see it listed in the for sale section after 3 months - "not bright enough" " I hardly look at it" "need to pay bills so have to sell"

exper · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject:

ideovideov · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject:

NV · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject:

for example Rene, is a very nice sequencer with great features, no argue about that, but what is exactly the innovation of this module when compared to other sequencers presented in the past from Buchla, Serge or Wiard, mainly speaking in terms of functions and features. They all do nest loops, they all can play in random order, some have quantizer some don't, touch plates or not. To my view innovation is all about changing the game, finding something new not releasing something with some added features, Minimoog was an innovation, Voyager is not.

DonKartofflo · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:35 am Post subject:

negativspace · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:41 am Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:50 am Post subject:

kartesian or not when you look at how it works you can say it is a sequencer that moves from A to B according to the x and y clocks inputs, logic etc, something already available in other formats as well, meaning the function/result in is almost the same.

+1 for the Eurorack love it by any means but bringing all those influences together doesn't make it innovating, at least to my view.

bendedavis · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:52 am Post subject:

NV · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:14 am Post subject:

DonKartofflo · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 am Post subject:

DonKartofflo · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:31 am Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:34 am Post subject:

I talking about functions / structures of components that perform a task or multiple tasks like the Buchla LowPassGate etc, these as the basic elements that express to my view the innovation of each design. Piston Honda is one of my fav oscillators but the design has been realized before, same thing for the Buchla 259 oscillator or the Serge DUSG.

I have no experience with video synthesis into the modular, sounds interesting.

DonKartofflo · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:41 am Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:43 am Post subject:

DonKartofflo · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:43 am Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:47 am Post subject:

andrewl0 · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:21 am Post subject:

exper · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:33 am Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:40 am Post subject:

true, euro has managed to bring out great designs and modules that would otherwise be not so easy to reach. I am mainly refering to the designs themselves, things that could change the game give it a new perspective just as it has happened before in the past.

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:41 am Post subject:

exper · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:52 am Post subject:

skecr8r · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:14 am Post subject:

^yeah that is a good point. I love Serge and Buchla, and the other formats also seem great. But when it goes in reverse Eurorack is looked down as some sort of retarded step-(sequencer-)brother. This was one of the gripes I had when I started building eurorack, but I just concluded that building 18U was within my budgetary reach while assembling a nice Serge (or just a REASONABLE Buchla) was way beyond. Also, I loved the many designers and the combinatiorics of combining 10+ manufacturers in a single system seemed very promising.

With the influx of new and creative designs and elaborations on more classical synthesis methods it just seems like the competition will foster great new designs and at the same time bring modular synthesis to the more 'common' musician. Yet at the same time the new Make Noise, Intellijel etc modules are reaching prices that are at least close to Wiard so the format also at the same time seems to be evolving towards more expensive and 'complete' modules.

Maybe its just the 'cheap' price of individual modules that put people off, but given that for example Serge modules include what would require 5-6 euro modules per panel to copy, maybe the pricing isn't that far off.

But snobbery can't really surprise anyone in the music world, I guess screaming goo yo

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:17 am Post subject:

no one is being negative, I just happened to have a different opinion

DonKartofflo · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:28 am Post subject:

numan7 · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject:

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject:

I knew from the very first post that this thread was going to devolve into negativity. Am I prescient or what? lol

numan7 · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject:

why is that every time someone has a different view, it ends up into the same ''you are being negative, troll'' thing, fuck I wonder why I bothered to even write down in the first place seriously, i just don't get it

numan7 · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject:

sorry pascal, i had only read your first post in this thread, and then your mea culpa about no one being negative.... your other posts seem a bit more constructive, now that iakve gone back and read them.

hihi

and i suppose it's ok to mention wiard and serge in a thread about eurorack module designers, since grant richter has been designing new wiard modules for euro-rack over the past few years. and it appears that serge tcherepin is about to jump into the game as well (and wouldn't it just be superbly grand if he introduced some completely new serge designs this way, exclusively for euro, like grant did with the wiard anti-oscillator)!

Soapbox

however bringing up don buchla was kind of a non-sequitur in this context, imho.

cheers

Mans · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:02 am Post subject:

What's so innovative about Wiard? Love them but they are clearly and admittely inspired by previous designs.

amnesia · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:07 am Post subject:

WMD
4MS
Make Noise
Synth Tech
The Harvestman
Livewire
and then the rest

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:10 am Post subject:

Innovation comes in many forms. The occasional module may present a radical new concept, but many modules have innovative stuff under the hood that no one even knows about, or an innovative new feature in an otherwise fairly conventional module, or a clever way of combining fairly typical features in an innovative way.

In other words, most innovation is incremental.

thetwlo · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:31 am Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:08 am Post subject:

thetwlo · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:12 am Post subject:

comaduster · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:13 am Post subject:

Makenoise really blew the doors open for me, and intellijel are really pushing what's being done in eurorack these days. Tons of innovation going on these days!

Mans · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:20 am Post subject:

Pascal · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:25 am Post subject:

Mans · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:31 am Post subject:

Rogue Ai · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:45 am Post subject:

I'd say the most innovative Eurorack designer is the one than made the NES controller interface. hihi

radiokoala · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:21 am Post subject:

exper · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:35 am Post subject:

Just do a search in the euro forum for serge modules. It seems the guy from Bananalogue is presenting Serge approved designs in the euro format. Nothing else is known yet, when they're due, what modules to expect, etc. Avoid the thread in the Buchla/Serge forum, as its 18 pages of bickering from "real" serge owners as to wether or not serge should be in euro format at all.

This is the site, but its just a title page for now:

http://www.sergesynthesizers.com/

daverj · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:22 am Post subject:

numan7 · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject:

well if you spoke with him, and that was what he said, i believe you daverj! we're not worthy

i've only read that bananalogue will be manufacturing serge modules in eurorack and nothing about which ones, but would love

if a new module design appeared that doesn't exist in 4u.... one can hope, after all! Rockin' Banana!

cheers

blinosynth · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject:

blinosynth · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: