Bananalogue PCBs.....

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

Moderators: Kent, Joe., analogdigital, infradead, lisa, parasitk, plord, sduck

Post Reply
User avatar
Muff Wiggler
wait, what?
Posts: 7815
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Bananalogue PCBs.....

Post by Muff Wiggler » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:22 am

.....are very colorful!

Image

User avatar
J.w.M.
Analog Addict
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 am
Location: LA

Post by J.w.M. » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:36 am

Oooh-- nice pictures!
Can't wait to get my hands on a VCS (which I'll randomly guess is the yellow one).

User avatar
Muff Wiggler
wait, what?
Posts: 7815
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Muff Wiggler » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am

yep - and the red one beside it as well!

User avatar
felix
Loves the manuals!
Posts: 3865
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:05 am
Location: San Jose, CA

Post by felix » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:51 am

Awesome. Colored PCBs are rad. If I ever get some PCBs made for something, I'm doing black with hot pink screening. HAWT!!!
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/225002
https://jimdrones.bandcamp.com

User avatar
Bricks
paper kettle
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 2:59 am
Location: Hypermagic Mountain, USA

Post by Bricks » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:08 am

The Malgorithm is a pretty tasty red!

User avatar
J.w.M.
Analog Addict
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 am
Location: LA

Post by J.w.M. » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:37 am

So... what's the general construction quality on the Bananalogue modules? It'll be the only non-Blacet module in my next rack, so I'm just a bit curious as to how it'll stack up.

User avatar
Muff Wiggler
wait, what?
Posts: 7815
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Muff Wiggler » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:03 am

oh they are excellent - very solid, you'll be happy for sure

User avatar
Kwote
Voltage Controlled Crackpot
Posts: 3107
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Post by Kwote » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:01 pm

plord was telling me the VCS needs gain as it doesn't output high enough voltage. sort of a downside.
Self expression is as essential as breathing
kwotemusic.com
my other sites

User avatar
Muff Wiggler
wait, what?
Posts: 7815
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Muff Wiggler » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:08 pm

can't really say i've noticed that. I use it as a modulation source and an audio source, and really haven't noticed that. Maybe putting things through mixer modules allows me to balance things out naturally without really noticing....but I never really noticed anyway

Only issue, I can CRASH my VCS modules if I want. I actually have to power cycle my system to make them come alive again. I pretty much have to want to do it though - the setting that makes it crash doesn't really happen under normal use

still, that's pretty fucked up, there

User avatar
plord
Wacky for Wiard Wiggler
Posts: 1778
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:52 am
Location: Charlotte, VT

Post by plord » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:22 pm

Kwote wrote:plord was telling me the VCS needs gain as it doesn't output high enough voltage. sort of a downside.
To be fair, it doesn't spit enough voltage for the specific applications of opening a Blacet VCA all the way when used as an envelope, or sweeping a Miniwave through all 16 waves. The VCS was the only env I had for about 6 months and this pissed me off daily. I've steered away from the MOTM envelopes for the same reason; you'd need a MOTM VCA to match or it would always be half-closed.

Using the VCS as an LFO or for audio output, sure, no problems.

Muff, I've never crashed mine :shock: That IS messed up. The things are built like a tank and I've always been impressed with the "no wires" build format.

I'm still split brained on whether I should sell my two VCS and get another Envelator (with extended time scale option). It's not an even trade, and I'd lose that crazy "both" jack. Ponder, ponder...

User avatar
Kwote
Voltage Controlled Crackpot
Posts: 3107
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Post by Kwote » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:48 pm

thanks for clearing that up paul. yeah, i'm feeling more and more like this :? in regards to the VCS. although everyone generally praises them so much.

regardless it probably won't make it into my setup anytime soon so i guess i got time to decide :)
Self expression is as essential as breathing
kwotemusic.com
my other sites

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3697
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

Post by consumed » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:26 pm

hey wait a minute!
theres a thread around here about the VCS, where i mentioned that some of my manual changes didnt work after patching it in certain ways. i think that i crashed it as well, and thats what i must have been describing. however, the module still worked--it just didnt respond to the knob movements. i havent had this problem in a long time and forgot about it. incidentally, i have another slopes module that im able to 'crash' when i modulate it with high frequencies. its a limitation of a component in the circuit i think. i wonder if this is also the case with the serge DUSG or not.
---------------------------
ok, so check this out...i have an idea thats been bugging me lately.

when we are new to modular, we come to the table to some degree with little or no expectations. we plug in, we patch, we discover. and as we learn more about what we are doing, we start to construct ideas about what we might do. and in this, we start to set expectations where no expectations existed before.

in this way, we set ourselves up for disappointment. for example, i just recently sold a module and replaced it with a similar module that i expected to work similarly/same as my long-gone module. of course, it does not behave to my expectation--in fact, it is very different sounding. i got a sinking feeling, like "why did i get rid of that module??"--this is the disappointment i brought to myself. instead, i should be exploring the qualities of my new module and learn its limitations and qualities, and be back on that 'discovery' path, instead of the 'expectation' path.

im also learning that circuits are not perfect, even from those i expect perfection from. sometimes they just cant do certain things. im also learning how to adjust my expectations and not just dump designs that dont meet them immediately.

---------------------------
i never noticed the voltage output of the vcs not being 10v.
i will have to go back and check that out.

---------------------------

despite the limitations expressed in this thread, the vcs is still an extremely flexible module. it can be a really wicked oscillator with a lot of tonal character when the rise/fall times are modulated at audio rates. try it out.

jesus christ i am really rambling today.

User avatar
Kwote
Voltage Controlled Crackpot
Posts: 3107
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Post by Kwote » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:12 pm

those are all good thoughts hans.

i think the one thing that has kept things fresh for me is consistently tearing down patches and not writing anything down.

i always start from scratch and this has not only forced me to be more experimental and stuck on discovery but it's also made my mind sharper for recreating things without need for a cheat sheet.
Self expression is as essential as breathing
kwotemusic.com
my other sites

User avatar
Muff Wiggler
wait, what?
Posts: 7815
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Muff Wiggler » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:16 pm

this thread turned out awesome 8) (now why won't you guys reply to the blue glowy tubes thread? hehehe)

first of all, yeah no module is perfect. every single one has things that we would like to change or add

for two, the VCS is a damn brilliant and CRAZY useful module, the single most useful module I can think of in my entire system, in terms of flexibility and options on offer. And it does a lot of these things without compromise. Yes the EG1 runs circles around it as an envelope generator, but that's apples and oranges in my opinion...

for three, there's somethings (like the waveform animator trick, so so so cool) that i can't imagine being possible in the same way using other modules that the VCS does, it's just so good at some things and such a uniqurly flexible module. I don't even know how to classify it - it has so many different personalities and identities depending on how you are using it in a patch. it feels more like a 'programmable' module than any other one I have - which is part of the deal with Serge designs for sure...
consumed wrote:hey wait a minute!
theres a thread around here about the VCS, where i mentioned that some of my manual changes didnt work after patching it in certain ways. i think that i crashed it as well, and thats what i must have been describing. however, the module still worked--it just didnt respond to the knob movements. i havent had this problem in a long time and forgot about it. incidentally, i have another slopes module that im able to 'crash' when i modulate it with high frequencies. its a limitation of a component in the circuit i think. i wonder if this is also the case with the serge DUSG or not.
oops, very sorry, somehow I missed that thread. Let's find it and put a pointer to this thread, or a quote or something.

sounds like the same thing to me. both my VCS units do it, so it's probably in the desgn, rather than in a single buggy build. Yes, it happens when modulating the slopes at very high rates - and then the module stops responding untill you reset the power. That's an interesting comment about your other slopes module - what is it? I have a Pair O' Slopes (Twin CGS slope detector) - not quite the same thing, and I can't crash it.

I do suspect it's a component in the module - feels like a clock is crashing, and clocks do crash. The Rev. A Time Machine had a crashing clock. I don't think there's a clock in the VCS, although I suspect there's a reference voltage comparator which is probably a similarly operating thing, it would be running on some sort of timed cycle/clock type coponent. The behaviour makes me thing the env follower is crashing, which I guess (not being an EE) is derived from a voltage comparator.

I never even thought to ask the question about the Serge - interesting. I also now wonder if it suffers from the same thing. I emailed Bananalogue about this and never heard anything back. This was like a year ago or so though..
consumed wrote:when we are new to modular, we come to the table to some degree with little or no expectations. we plug in, we patch, we discover. and as we learn more about what we are doing, we start to construct ideas about what we might do. and in this, we start to set expectations where no expectations existed before.
absolutely! all our experience serves to colour our expectations. There's nothing like a tabula rasa of a completely new concept, but it cannot stay that way for very long at all. In fact, and I firmly believe this, the simple act of attaching a name to a concept immediately serves to limit what we can do with that concept, in terms of abstract conceptualization. Ironic as it is difficult for us to do mental gymnastics with concepts without first putting a label on, but once we do....we limit the concept... oh dear

i believe we can somewhat combat this natural process through exposure and exercises in abstract and psychedelic thought processes and associations. this can be difficult for a lot of concepts we try to apply it to, and difficult sometimes for certain people or team members to work with in a collaborative setting. anyway, yeah it can be challanging for sure. it's good that you can recognize this
consumed wrote:in this way, we set ourselves up for disappointment. for example, i just recently sold a module and replaced it with a similar module that i expected to work similarly/same as my long-gone module. of course, it does not behave to my expectation--in fact, it is very different sounding. i got a sinking feeling, like "why did i get rid of that module??"--this is the disappointment i brought to myself. instead, i should be exploring the qualities of my new module and learn its limitations and qualities, and be back on that 'discovery' path, instead of the 'expectation' path.
its absolutely true, you should approach every new module, even if it seems to have the features of another, as a blank slate at first, to see what is possible. it's so hard. i got a PM from plord yesterday suggesting some simple settings for the cynare - that i wouldn't have thought of trying for ages. and they were nothing complex. that's the amazing playground of the modular in my opinion. I'm at 97 modules, most have around 4-5 knobs, and 5-8 jacks. there's a LOT of permutations of how things can be hooked up. I don't think I've tried 1% yet.

but also.... heh you shouldn't have sold the first module 'till the second one arrived and you got to try them. who knows how they would have sounded TOGETHER? hehe
consumed wrote:im also learning that circuits are not perfect, even from those i expect perfection from. sometimes they just cant do certain things. im also learning how to adjust my expectations and not just dump designs that dont meet them immediately.
absolutely. and, often times, if there is a shortcoming somewhere in a design, it may have been put there intentionally, as a tradeoff to give the design some very cool feature that wouldn't have been possible without the tradeoff. Everything has it's charms... well almost. Let's admit it, there's a couple of bum modules out there that work fine and do their thing, but just are nothing special and would end up never getting used by someone with a medium-to-large system and better options. But, yes none are perfect. And I find often the quirks are sometimes more interesting than the 'expected function from reading the spec sheet'. I love quirky things.
consumed wrote:jesus christ i am really rambling today.
thanks! made for a great read 8)

User avatar
felix
Loves the manuals!
Posts: 3865
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:05 am
Location: San Jose, CA

Post by felix » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:20 pm

re: crashing
My Livewire Dalek Modulator will crash if you turn the cross-modulation on both oscillators all the way up. The oscillators just die...but all you have to do is turn the cross-mod down a little bit and they spring back to life rather quickly. Doesn't bother me, but it's the only module I have which will "crash" in any way.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/225002
https://jimdrones.bandcamp.com

User avatar
J.w.M.
Analog Addict
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 am
Location: LA

Post by J.w.M. » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:37 pm

Awesome thread.
Oh-- and nice job on the Matrix mention.

Well... the crashing issue certainly isn't turning me off of the module. It's worth considering, but I think that even for live use, it'll probably not be an issue. That is, as long as I don't try to modulate slopes at high rates. Seems like a slightly niche-like application of the module, anyway. Hope so...

User avatar
Chuck E. Jesus
holier than thou
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: next to Serious Fun!

Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:42 pm

i've been thinking of picking up a VCS sometime this year, i think it would be useful...being Euro, the voltage issue won't be an problem for me...

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3697
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

Post by consumed » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:49 am

Muff Wiggler wrote:Only issue, I can CRASH my VCS modules if I want. I actually have to power cycle my system to make them come alive again. I pretty much have to want to do it though - the setting that makes it crash doesn't really happen under normal use
ok, ive just confirmed from a serge user that it is possible to crash the serge DTG and DUSG under the same conditions (high frequency modulation). btw, the modcan dual lfo is what ive been playing with, and is really a dual slopes module very much like the DUSG. anyway, i discovered, by accident, that all i have to do is jack into the reset input, and the lockup clears. on the serge, you just have to flip the cycle switch to clear it. muff, try the switch next time you lock up your VCS.

User avatar
Muff Wiggler
wait, what?
Posts: 7815
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Muff Wiggler » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:34 pm

ah very interesting info, thanks consumed 8)

i will try the cycle switch trick - a lot easier than power cycling

i haven't actually encountered the issue in months, but I'm sure I can recreate it very easily

The Alison Project
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:39 am

Post by The Alison Project » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:59 am

consumed wrote: ok, ive just confirmed from a serge user that it is possible to crash the serge DTG and DUSG under the same conditions (high frequency modulation).
I can confirm this as well.

thermionicjunky
Thyratron Genius
Posts: 2249
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by thermionicjunky » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:46 am

I've had my Modcan Dual LFO crash, but I hadn't discovered that solution. Powering down is terrible when I'm working with the CV Recorders.

User avatar
tragedybysyntax
Banned until Restitution Made
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:39 am

Post by tragedybysyntax » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:53 am

I'm actually thinking of picking up a 2nd vcs.... FUCKING LOVE THAT MODULE!!!

User avatar
J.w.M.
Analog Addict
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 am
Location: LA

Post by J.w.M. » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:34 pm

Can't WAIT to get mine. Once my new 12U skb case gets here, I can buy me a new frac rack, power connector, and some modules (of which the VCS will be one of the first I get).

Post Reply

Return to “Modular Synth General Discussion”