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motm/modcan b series in a dotcom cabinet
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author motm/modcan b series in a dotcom cabinet
sandyb
this has come up a few times recently and in the past so here's some information on mixing motm format (which includes modcan b series) modules into a synthesizers.com cabinet. i'm only talking about the wooden cabinets here - not racks.
there are three main things to consider.
first, how to physically mount the motm format modules (height issues)
second, what number of each module format can you fit? (width issues)
finally, powering the motm format modules. there's a post about this already so i'm not going to cover the subject here.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1739

mounting issues - height

dotcom and motm format modules are technically the same height. the real difference is the fact that dotcom format modules have a lip at the top and bottom which motm doesn't.
here's a picture of the dotcom lip:



and here's a picture of a motm module showing that the module is straight with no lip at the top or bottom:




the mounting holes of motm format modules are also placed at a slightly different vertical height to those on dotcom. this means that if you place a motm format module on the floor of a dotcom cabinet its mounting holes will not reach the top rail completely. to counter this you need to make sure that any motm format modules are centered in the rails before you drill mounting holes for them. the picture below shows in red the gap that i've left in order to centre the module.



actually mounting motm modules is fairly straighforward. the rails of dotcom cabinets are made of wood and can be easily drilled out for motm. i've found that the holes for motm do not interfere with the dotcom holes that are already present. mark the holes making sure the module is centered as mentioned above. drill the hole with a 1mm or 2mm bit. i usually then screw in one of the mounting screws to "tap" the hole before i actually mount the module. the motm mounting holes will be closer to the edge of the rails than the dotcom ones. the picture below has motm holes marked in green and dotcom in red:



here's a picture of the two formats together (don't worry about the gap here - it's just that i didn't replace modules i'd pulled to take the mounting hole photos)




mounting issues - width

so now you need to consider how many of each module you want in the case.
1 dotcom unit = 2.125 inches.
1 motm unit = 1.75 inches.
these are the widths of single space modules.
22 space dotcom cabinets have rails 46.75 inches wide

the figures below show all the combinations of dotcom format modules and motm format modules you can have in a 22 space dotcom row.
the table shows:
number of single space dotcom format modules
resulting space remaining (in inches) in cabinet
number of (whole) motm format units available
the gap (in inches) that will remain when the case is full



as you can see some combinations work better than others. 8 dotcom format and 17 motm format spaces is the magic figure where you have no gap at all. note that i think this table will only work if you mount all the motm format modules in a block together and the dotcom ones together. sticking them in between each other would, if you used the pre-drilled dotcom mounting holes, mean more gaps. you could of course drill different dotcom mounting holes in the relevant place(s) to leave you with the smallest possible gap. i'm planning on having 3 dotcom modules in my case. this means i have 23 motm format units to play with. i'll have a gap of 0.12 inches which i can live with!

sandy
dude
your posts are so thorough and informative! you have been so helpful yet again! thank you.
drewtoothpaste
Great info and just in time for me, as I recently bought a MOTM module to go in my dotcom cabinet. smile

What power setup are you using to power the motm/dotcoms? I've got the QPS1 power supply and figured on using the motm-.com adapter that .com sells, but this is only good for one module - do you have a motm bus-board?
sandyb
drewtoothpaste wrote:
Great info and just in time for me, as I recently bought a MOTM module to go in my dotcom cabinet. smile

What power setup are you using to power the motm/dotcoms? I've got the QPS1 power supply and figured on using the motm-.com adapter that .com sells, but this is only good for one module - do you have a motm bus-board?


thanks.
i use a QPS1 power supply with one of the STG busboards these days as having a whole dotcom cable harness for 3 modules was a pita. when i had lots of dotcom and only a few motm i used a motm 995 adaptor board powered off one leg of the dotcom cable harness. there's links for all these in the power distribution thread if you need more details.

sandy
JohnLRice
Great post, Sandy! w00t
Scaff
drewtoothpaste wrote:
Great info and just in time for me, as I recently bought a MOTM module to go in my dotcom cabinet. smile

What power setup are you using to power the motm/dotcoms? I've got the QPS1 power supply and figured on using the motm-.com adapter that .com sells, but this is only good for one module - do you have a motm bus-board?


I have MOTM 995 on my QPS1 and also a board from cotk. This works great with my frankensynth with motm,cotk,modcan,anyware-instruments, dotcom and moonmodular. Its great to have the choise now!
Scaff
ambulance
drewtoothpaste
Scaff, I'll probably get one'a those - along with a VCEG from moon once I get around to clearing out some room in the cabinet!
doctorvague
I'm not sure if this has mentioned in exactly this way, but it works out for me that 6 adjoining MOTM spaces fills 5 adjoining dotcom spaces pretty perfectly. It's an easy rule of thumb for my simple brain.

pugix
I know this is an old topic. Just to add this link to my dot com cabinet page.

http://pugix.com/synth/synthesizerscom-motm-cabinet/

I have only MOTM/Modcan modules in my dot com cabinets. I used rails supplied by Larry Hendry, but you can get these rails now from Bridechamber.

The cabinets are very nice and the depth is just right.
Dob
Thanks for bringing up this old topic. Great info, will come in handy soon!
The Hamburglar
Can you put Modcan B / MOTM in a .com portable system?
dude
different rails methinks
Henfield
The Hamburglar wrote:
Can you put Modcan B / MOTM in a .com portable system?


The simple answer is yes, as the rails are the same wooden rails that are in the studio cabinets, with one caveat: You have to watch the mounting depth as is only around 5" from the front of the rail to the back of the cabinet. Actually, I just checked the Dotcom site and it lists the mounting depth as 5.25", so you would have to check the MOTM or Modcan modules. Just remember that you also need to mount a power supply inside the cabinet as well, which restricts the cabinet depth in that area.
Juxwl
Thanks for the info. I've been trying to find the perfect mixture of MOTM and Dot com.
T S
The Hamburglar wrote:
Can you put Modcan B / MOTM in a .com portable system?


Does anyone have details on this?

I know the portable22 cabinet has 5.25" behind the modules and most MOTM modules are 4.5" is there space for a PQS1 power supply? The MOTM-900 power supplies are unavailable at the moment

Tom
sandyb
T S wrote:
The Hamburglar wrote:
Can you put Modcan B / MOTM in a .com portable system?


Does anyone have details on this?

I know the portable22 cabinet has 5.25" behind the modules and most MOTM modules are 4.5" is there space for a PQS1 power supply? The MOTM-900 power supplies are unavailable at the moment

Tom


welcome to the forum.

i doubt you'd fit a 4.5" deep module in a space in front of the power supply. but, with a bit of careful module placement you should be ok with a pqs1 in there. just stick your shallower modules in front of it.
JohnLRice
T S wrote:
The Hamburglar wrote:
Can you put Modcan B / MOTM in a .com portable system?


Does anyone have details on this?

I know the portable22 cabinet has 5.25" behind the modules and most MOTM modules are 4.5" is there space for a PQS1 power supply? The MOTM-900 power supplies are unavailable at the moment

Tom


Maybe check out the ones mecanikill sells here? They use the Power-One MAP series switching supplies and are a lot shallower than the linear Power-One (QPS) supplies.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56165
T S
Thanks guys, really appreciate the advice, both are great ideas... just need to make a decision now or try and find an MOTM-900
sduck
Contact Paul Schreiber directly - he'll sell you a 900. Or tell you how to get one. I just bought one from him recently.
The Hamburglar
For anyone still wondering, my portable dotcom case has Modcan b / MOTM/ and inexplicably both MOTM and MU format Oakley from krisp1.com. I just placed the modules where I wanted them, penciled in a guide for myself, and drill baby drilled.

It's as simple as this: 5 MU = 6 MOTM.
odecahedron
for those who want the best of both worlds...


im about to build a 2-tier cabinet to house a dedicated row of MOTM and a dedicated row of MU, surely im not the only 5U user to have this notion so thought it may be beneficial to post a relative-width chart here for a visual aid



obviously the best matching "total" widths are 14MU-17MOTM, and then 23MU-28MOTM with almost zero "leftover", tho a couple other combos are pretty damn close.

myself- im probably going to go 18MU-22MOTM - this produces a mere 3 or 4 mm gap on the MU row, which i think i can easily live with, or perhaps could be filled with some kind of thin veneer at one of the ends.

ill post a pic of the actual thing once its completed.
pugix
Thanks for that diagram. I never realized that the spacing would be so even with 23 MU to 28 MOTM. I adapted the QCS22 (22MU wide dot com slant cabinet) to MOTM, which fits 26 MOTM 1U widths. There's a bit of leftover space at the ends. Kinda handy for ventilation, actually. smile
odecahedron
yeah i dont really see leftover as a big problem - its an aesthetic thing i guess... 'module tetris' so to speak. i chose the 22MOTM-18MU cos its about the same approximate length as my Juno which the modular sits above.
odecahedron
actually i would love to see other examples of combined formats in this way (dedicated rows) - no idea how you'd search such a thing tho
steffengrondahl
Thanks for the diagram. Very usefull (I'm going to expand my dotcom with Modcab B somehow in 2013).

odecahedron wrote:
yeah i dont really see leftover as a big problem - its an aesthetic thing i guess... 'module tetris' so to speak.

I love tetris, which is probably why a hate leftovers and empty space grin At the moment I have a 2U hole in my cabinet at the moment (a module for repair) and it really bothers me sad And all other empty spaces a filled with blank panel (which I obviously love)

odecahedron wrote:
i chose the 22MOTM-18MU cos its about the same approximate length as my Juno which the modular sits above.


Yes my Juno has plenty of room in the keyboard garage underneath my dotcom cabinets. Is it a 6 or 60? (mine is a 6 with a buggy VCF, quite charming)
sandyb
odecahedron

thanks for the very useful addition to this thread thumbs up
odecahedron
steffengrondahl wrote:


Yes my Juno has plenty of room in the keyboard garage underneath my dotcom cabinets. Is it a 6 or 60? (mine is a 6 with a buggy VCF, quite charming)


its a 106 actually, my gear is all on stands so no garage for me... i just wanted the modular + the keys to be about the same general width.

sandyb - no probs, work i slow often so things like this happen wink
The Hamburglar
You can see a real life example of how they line up in my post in the stickie 5u pictures thread below.
Janus
You guys have really thought this stuff out.....and its helping me so much.
Drumdrumdrumdrum
This is good. Thanks
alternating.bit
Hello everyone,
It seems like this thread only addresses wooden cabinets... does this mean that a standard 19" rack with an 8-space rack frame from dotcom will not mix dotcoms with Moon Modular or any other 5U brands?



I'm starting to build my first modular system and would like to know if I can integrate any other brands with the dotcom I'm starting with.

Thanks in advance.
Henfield
Welcome to the forum!

In 5U, there are predominately two different size panel formats, commonly MOTM and MU. MOTM format has panel widths in 1.75" increments with mounting holes at the corners. MU format has 2.125" panel widths, and the mounting holes are at the center of each panel width. This makes it difficult to mix formats when using metal mounting rails, like the ones that you show, as they are drilled and tapped for a particular format.

All that being said, Synthesizers.com modules ( aka " Dotcom"), are MU in format, as well as the Moon modules that you talk about, so they will both mount into the Dotcom Rack Frame that you have pictured.

Please let us know if you have any further questions!
alternating.bit
Thanks for the prompt reply!

Since you said I can ask further questions... What about mos-lab?

http://www.mos-lab.com/#!914/c1b7d

(I tried the URL insert and it wouldn't work...)

[url=http://www.mos-lab.com/#!914/c1b7d]914 Fixed Filter Bank[/url]

EDIT: Or better yet... can someone list for me all compatable brands with dotcom? I understand there are power supply issues as well, so it would be helpful to know if anything can share the power supply I get from dotcom as well - thanks so much.
Henfield
alternating.bit wrote:
Thanks for the prompt reply!

Since you said I can ask further questions... Just to recap, with the rack frame photo I posted, you're saying that will properly house dotcom and Moon modules together.

What about mos-lab?

http://www.mos-lab.com/#!914/c1b7d

(I tried the URL insert and it wouldn't work...)

[url=http://www.mos-lab.com/#!914/c1b7d]914 Fixed Filter Bank[/url]


Yes, Mos-Lab uses the same panel format, as well as Club of the Knobs, Suit and Tie Guy (aka STG), Corsynth, SSL, Krisp1 Oakley (He actually makes both MOTM and MU), Analog Craftsman, just to name a few.
alternating.bit
Ha - I edited my post adding a request for other compatibles and you did it anyway - much appreciated.

I'd love a more comprehensive list than "just to name a few" if possible... also what power issues I may face with each.

Thanks again
alternating.bit
Ha - I edited my post adding a request for other compatibles and you did it anyway - much appreciated.

I'd love a more comprehensive list than "just to name a few" if possible... also what power issues I may face with each.

Thanks again
Henfield
alternating.bit wrote:
Ha - I edited my post adding a request for other compatibles and you did it anyway - much appreciated.

I'd love a more comprehensive list than "just to name a few" if possible... also what power issues I may face with each.

Thanks again


You may want to check out this thread for the manufacturers: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1727

In terms of power, they mostly adhere to the Dotcom Power specs, although you will need to check on Mos- Lab and COTK.
alternating.bit
Henfield wrote:
You may want to check out this thread for the manufacturers: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1727

In terms of power, they mostly adhere to the Dotcom Power specs, although you will need to check on Mos- Lab and COTK.


Thanks but the very first link that the whole thread refers to is down... apparently Wiki no longer has a 'muffwiggler' page
Henfield
alternating.bit wrote:
Henfield wrote:
You may want to check out this thread for the manufacturers: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1727

In terms of power, they mostly adhere to the Dotcom Power specs, although you will need to check on Mos- Lab and COTK.


Thanks but the very first link that the whole thread refers to is down... apparently Wiki no longer has a 'muffwiggler' page


Keep on going through that thread, the information that you want is in there!
TheEngineer
I Created this quick drawing. Has anyone attempting to build dual sliding nut rails yet to combat this issue?

[/img]
analogjeff
HI I have both in my system.. they play well together..
analogjeff
Are modcan the same size as motm? thanks
sduck
Not exactly, but for all practical purposes they're the same. They'll fit in the same spaces in a MOTM dedicated cabinet, for instance. There are other differences, like the power connections, that are bigger differences.
JohnLRice
sduck wrote:
Not exactly, but for all practical purposes they're the same. They'll fit in the same spaces in a MOTM dedicated cabinet, for instance. There are other differences, like the power connections, that are bigger differences.
A minor difference is the panel thickness is a little less than MOTM standard, which doesn't cause problems, it's just noticable . . .once you get over the panel being white! eek! MY ASS IS BLEEDING hihi
coyoteous
14 x 2.125 = 17 x 1.75 = 29.75
DomMorley
sduck wrote:
Not exactly, but for all practical purposes they're the same. They'll fit in the same spaces in a MOTM dedicated cabinet, for instance.


I found Modcan B modules to be 0.5mm wider than standard MOTM. This is worth bearing in mind, as I built a cabinet to fit 3 rows of 12MOTM perfectly, which turned out to be 6mm too small for a row of Modcan.
Mark11Audio
I made this silk screen a few years ago... worked out nicely for the Modcan Quantizer 55B in .com format... it took a little "fanagling" to get it all moved over, but in the end it worked nicely...

~M~ Mr. Green

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